XMPP Summit - 2013-01-31


  1. hildjj

    https://cisco.webex.com/cisco/e.php?AT=WMI&EventID=215959417&PW=ae8ea25b403f203f&RT=MiMxNDc%3D

  2. fritzy

    Neehaw

  3. bear

    wooo

  4. fritzy

    Ralph is a hater.

  5. winfried

    he is not well-formed...

  6. fritzy

    must be that crazy Twisted stuff.

  7. fritzy

    Ralph is really testing Swift's ability to summarize presence changes.

  8. Florian

    :)

  9. stpeter

    :)

  10. fritzy

    it's too bad, but I can't hear anyone on the other end of the room. It'll work better when we break out into groups, I suppose.

  11. Kev

    fritzy; It's good, though :D

  12. fritzy

    Kev: oh yeah

  13. bear

    I never know what to say for these introductions

  14. Kev

    "Bear". Your name's "Bear".

  15. bear

    :P

  16. fritzy

    yup

  17. Kev

    Happy to help.

  18. hildjj

    fritzy: it was hard to hear some of those people IRL

  19. Kev

    There. He remembered, phew.

  20. fritzy

    the JSON stuff isn't about changing XMPP.

  21. bear

    yea, that is what we need to keep reminding folks

  22. fritzy

    It's about making a bridge that can run at any layer for the increasing percentage of web developers

  23. fritzy

    "as is traditional..." and then the audio cut off

  24. Kev

    Peter's saying there's lots of stuff we do.

  25. Florian

    If you want to attend the dinner tonight, and haven't filled in the menu yet, do so now

  26. Florian

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dExlcTBGN2lyYzlJb1h3OEI4cXBicGc6MQ#gid=0

  27. Kev

    You know all this.

  28. fritzy

    ah, ok. Strange that the audio suddenly stopped working.

  29. Kev

    Is it back?

  30. fritzy

    no

  31. bear

    he's summarizing the areas people have mentioned to start getting working groups set up

  32. fritzy

    this'll be more useful in a smaller group setting anyway

  33. Kev

    I don't think I have any power to d osomething here.

  34. fritzy

    it's ok for now

  35. fritzy

    I'll just participate in the smaller groups as I can

  36. Kev

    OK.

  37. bear

    if something new is said I will try and repeat it hear

  38. bear

    MEP, WebRTC, WebSockets and Bosh

  39. bear

    we know now that long polling is not the issue

  40. Kev

    Not the solution, rather.

  41. bear

    jim is redialing now

  42. fritzy

    well, now that we have something better

  43. bear

    err joe

  44. fritzy

    Geeze, Joe is a legend, and you get his name wrong?!

  45. fritzy

    ;)

  46. bear

    new keyboard

  47. fritzy

    I'll try too

  48. Kev

    bear: Keys all in different places?

  49. bear

    now he is talking about internationalization and mobile support

  50. bear

    kev: no - my thumbs are in new places

  51. Kev

    Ah. I hate it when that happens.

  52. bear

    dave!

  53. Dave Cridland

    Mike!

  54. bear

    there is a webex setup

  55. hildjj

    ok, audio should be back?

  56. Dave Cridland

    Ah - where away webex?

  57. fritzy

    ok, I have audio now

  58. hildjj

    dwd: https://cisco.webex.com/cisco/e.php?AT=WMI&EventID=215959417&PW=ae8ea25b403f203f&RT=MiMxNDc%3D

  59. fritzy

    I'm good to stay up all night.

  60. Kev

    So I heard.

  61. winfried

    current thoughts JSON object model

  62. Dave Cridland adds the Webex URI the wiki

  63. fritzy

    wire protocol isn't necessary, but may be done in certain situations

  64. stpeter

    fritzy: let us know if you'd like to channel anything to the room for you

  65. stpeter set the topic to

    http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_13 | https://cisco.webex.com/cisco/e.php?AT=WMI&EventID=215959417&PW=ae8ea25b403f203f&RT=MiMxNDc%3D

  66. fritzy

    yeah, let me know when I have a chance to summarize my thoughts

  67. stpeter

    fritzy: will do

  68. stpeter

    fritzy: our audio is not so great here so we might need to repeat some of what you say here (or crank it up to 11!)

  69. fritzy

    erreven!

  70. fritzy

    It's important to clarify that this is a subset of XMPP. It's not extensible, although we might have a XEP for passing generic JSON blobs.

  71. Dave Cridland

    This webex thing is fun. All the power of Animated GIF.

  72. Dave Cridland

    Oh, and now buzzing instead of audio.

  73. fritzy

    Buzzzzzzzzzz

  74. fritzy

    oh, fixed

  75. Dave Cridland

    Unless you've all started monotonically humming?

  76. hildjj

    sorry, that was peter.

  77. Dave Cridland

    Ah, for me as well.

  78. stpeter

    sorry, was playing with the audio settings here

  79. fritzy

    Dave: are you not in the room then?

  80. Dave Cridland

    I'm in *a* room...

  81. stpeter

    hold on!!!

  82. stpeter

    I hung up on you

  83. darkrain

    fritzy: We hung up on you (apparently)

  84. fritzy

    oops

  85. Steffen Larsen

    he he he

  86. stpeter

    please hold :)

  87. fritzy

    what I was saying is that as far as what developers wants varies greatly

  88. fritzy

    the commonality is that they won't touch XML

  89. fritzy

    because their XML tools have been so bad for so long

  90. fritzy

    and when they think about extensibility, they're thinking about sending their own blobs as payload

  91. Steffen Larsen

    but that does not sound extensible

  92. Steffen Larsen

    ;-)

  93. stpeter

    we still need to get the audio working again

  94. fritzy

    NO NOT REST

  95. Dave Cridland

    No REST for the wicked.

  96. fritzy

    Not REST... we're not talking routing or verb translation.

  97. bear

    sorry - rest is just my comfort area for web stuff

  98. fritzy

    There is some code. stanza.io

  99. stpeter

    you're back

  100. stpeter

    on audio

  101. Dave Cridland

    I can't here any of this (aside from PSA).

  102. Kev

    He's the only person near the mic.

  103. Dave Cridland

    Right.

  104. fritzy

    Federation, security, etc.

  105. darkrain

    "Some people want presence+routing. Other people want pubsub."

  106. Kev

    Steffen was just saying that we can't solve all problems, but we can work out a common lib.

  107. fritzy

    presence, routing, rosters, identity.

  108. stpeter

    fritzy: right

  109. Kev

    common requirements, for an API>

  110. Lance

    basically: what can we provide to be better than socket.io

  111. Steffen Larsen

    fritzy: exactly

  112. fritzy

    and then pubsub

  113. stpeter

    fritzy: pubsub in 1.1 or whatever

  114. stpeter

    fritzy: or a more native pubsubby thing

  115. fritzy

    yeah

  116. fritzy

    Right... strophe expects you to write and parse XML, and no other lib forces you to do that

  117. stpeter

    fritzy: yes

  118. fritzy

    Strophe is mostly just a BOSH connection manager.

  119. fritzy

    It's simply not enough

  120. stpeter

    fritzy: yes

  121. stpeter

    that's right

  122. fritzy

    and it's not even just about XML... we're expecting application developers to write the wire protocol.

  123. Dave Cridland

    Right, they want to take some simple API, and throw a javascript object at some endpoint, and get one back.

  124. fritzy

    exactly

  125. fritzy

    now that's not to discount the people that want to do more, so I disagree with some of the things you were saying (that it should never be more than that)

  126. Dave Cridland

    Yes and no. For things like MUC, I'm not sure if doing anything different on the wire is the right direction - I think a neat layer over STrophe is possibly the better chocie.

  127. Dave Cridland

    (Sorry, typing shot this morning).

  128. fritzy

    sure sure... an I agree. But we can kill two birds with one stone... we can make a JSON SDK that can /potentially/ be translated on the other side of the wire.

  129. Dave Cridland

    s/JSON/Javascript object and native feel/ and you're on.

  130. Steffen Larsen

    I still feel strange that we are talking about SDKs when we are doing protocols.. :-)

  131. Dave Cridland

    Because the SDK is what's visible, and that's what gains mindshare.

  132. Steffen Larsen

    Dave: I know..

  133. Dave Cridland

    With most of our protocol design, we talk about end-user (or end-entity) actions, then see how to translate them onto things on the wire. Here we're a layer down, is all.

  134. fritzy

    Well, that's why people love JSON... because it can be a Javascript object OR a serialized thing

  135. ralphm

    So apparently Buddycloud has its annual company outing

  136. fritzy

    so... is there anything going on in the room right now? cause we have no audio

  137. Kev

    fritzy: We're ascertaining interest in the topics.

  138. Steffen Larsen

    no talking about the different topics

  139. fritzy

    I'll kill my video so you don't have to stare at me picking my nose then.

  140. Dave Cridland

    I'll point my video at the dog.

  141. Florian

    lol

  142. fritzy

    your dog is licking itself, I think

  143. Dave Cridland

    He's having a scratch.

  144. Florian

    we'll be back in 15mins

  145. fritzy

    k, what are the breakout groups?

  146. bear

    we haven't decided yet

  147. Dave Cridland

    Oh, the dog's gone camera shy.

  148. Florian

    i'm going to Google+ them

  149. bear

    they are taking a bio brak

  150. fritzy

    oh, I thought that was what was being discussed. :)

  151. Florian

    the topics are on the G+ event

  152. hildjj

    i'm trying some other A/V options while we're taking a break.

  153. fritzy

    Florian yeah? I don't see an event...

  154. Zash

    \o/

  155. fritzy

    w00t

  156. fritzy

    How've you been, Zash?

  157. fritzy

    I'm making coffee and Dave is making tea.

  158. Florian

    fritzy: sent you an invite to the event

  159. Florian

    anyone else not part of the XMPP Summit e ent?

  160. Florian

    I'm in G+ Party Mode streaming some pics there

  161. Florian

    topics are up

  162. Florian

    https://plus.google.com/events/c7apt48oi63qoi07a6a5psaf8fc?authkey=CProyqyywtGFHw

  163. hildjj

    For file transfer, look at XEPs: 95, 96, 65

  164. fritzy

    for a good time, call Joe

  165. Zash

    fritzy: Fine, thanks. I arrive. Except now we're out of coffee. I may have had something to do with that...

  166. bear

    can you hear him?

  167. Zash

    Kev: Tobias did implement -PLUS, but it has not been merged yet

  168. fritzy

    bear: yes

  169. fritzy

    thanks guy

  170. fritzy

    s

  171. Florian

    http://go.estos.de/chat/#0hgo7on5

  172. bear

    lance - what is your jid? I just realized I don't have you in my roster

  173. Steffen Larsen

    WebRTC and MUC: http://candy-chat.github.com/candy-webrtc/

  174. Dave Cridland

    Alexey tried to make DIGEST-MD5 use saslprep, but as I recall is was a rathole.

  175. hildjj

    dave: that's my recollection. the whole idea of having a separate *prep for SASL vs. your application protocol is a little wonky anyway.

  176. Dave Cridland

    hildjj, Well, given that SASL authentication identifiers are already technically unrelated to the authorization identifiers from the protocol, maybe it makes some weird kind of sense.

  177. Dave Cridland

    Not that I can really hear much of what's said, but Kurt Zeilenga's take here is that it makes sense to have multiple jids, one in ASCII and one not, and either have some mechanism to find out the real non-ASCII jid from the ASCII handle, or else have the server actually remember which jid alias to use for which contact.

  178. Zash

    Did you just say 'jid alias'?

  179. Dave Cridland

    Zash, Yes, but actually in the sense I used it I mean jid equivalent.

  180. Kev

    Dave Cridland: Yes, but that's to solve a different problem.

  181. Dave Cridland

    Kev, Ah, OK.

  182. Kev

    Kurt's argument for having an ascii and a non-ascii is so you can put easy things on your business card or whatever.

  183. Kev

    Rather than suggesting that Japanese folks need to have an ASCII JID.

  184. Dave Cridland

    Kev, Right.

  185. Dave Cridland

    Kev, But ISTR his general goal is remote canonicalization.

  186. ralphm

    with something like punycode?

  187. Dave Cridland

    Where is the microphone? Because I now can't here Kev, even. Is it shielded by the laptop lids?

  188. Kev

    I'm just not shouting any more. I was making an effort TO PROJECT earlier.

  189. ralphm

    up front

  190. Dave Cridland

    Kev, You is becomin' an hack-toor?

  191. ralphm

    Can you hear Kev now?

  192. Dave Cridland

    Very much so.

  193. Dave Cridland

    If he projects much more we can drop the webex, I think.

  194. ralphm

    he's presenting now

  195. Dave Cridland

    Of course, I can't see his diagram.

  196. ralphm

    better?

  197. Dave Cridland

    Yes. Though for a brief moment I could only see his crotch.

  198. Zash

    hah

  199. darkrain

    TMI

  200. Zash

    What darkrain said

  201. darkrain

    here's a muc, there's a muc. everyone muc muc

  202. Lloyd

    you beat me to that joke :)

  203. darkrain

    Great minds and all that.

  204. Dave Cridland

    These two mucs count as one muc.

  205. Zash

    Did Kev say MUCeption?

  206. Zash

    Everything needs more MAM!

  207. Dave Cridland

    You can turn me round again now.

  208. SimonTennant

    Zash: +1

  209. Dave Cridland

    Ta.

  210. fritzy

    End <- encryption -> End

  211. fritzy

    like that?

  212. Dave Cridland

    We have a discussion about e2e encryption every time, so should have one this time if only for tradition's sake.

  213. Lance

    can someone just tell us how to do it properly this time?

  214. SimonTennant

    Somewhat related to Federated MUC is the Zookeeper project ZAB: http://research.yahoo.com/files/ladis08.pdf

  215. Dave Cridland

    Lance, The encryption bit is easy, it's the authentication and key exchange bit that's so damn hard.

  216. fritzy

    did we lose audio?

  217. fritzy

    oh, there it is

  218. Dave Cridland

    fritzy, They lost speech.

  219. fritzy

    I have a lot of opinions on xmpp as middleware

  220. fritzy

    ok, I just have one big one.

  221. fritzy

    Don't do it unless you're federating data.

  222. Dave Cridland

    I think it also depends on where your middle is.

  223. fritzy

    xactly

  224. Dave Cridland

    XMPP does to the auth stuff pretty well.

  225. Dave Cridland

    does do.

  226. fritzy

    right, but middleware is often network secured rather than identity authed

  227. Steffen Larsen

    fritzy: no thats not always true..

  228. fritzy

    often, as I said

  229. Steffen Larsen

    :-)

  230. Dave Cridland

    Right, purely internal middleware is not interesting, but if your middleware is talking over the internet, say, that changes things whether federation is in play or not.

  231. fritzy

    right

  232. fritzy

    don't bother unless it's going over the public net

  233. Dave Cridland

    I personally suspect that middleware is talking over mobile links and direct-to-browser a lot more than it used to.

  234. fritzy

    sure sure... clients are further out

  235. Lance

    dave: yes, it is

  236. fritzy

    social network: might wait for Simon tomorrow?

  237. Zash

    He's here

  238. Kev

    fritzy: He's here.

  239. fritzy

    oh

  240. Dave Cridland

    fritzy, I think he's that collection of eight pixels towards the end on the left.

  241. fritzy

    this cisco tech is really amazing

  242. Dave Cridland

    It's like being in the room.

  243. Dave Cridland

    In a parallel universe where you see in 8-bit games console graphics.

  244. fritzy

    yeah well, most of it is filled in by my imagination and remembering actually being in that room

  245. Florian

    haha

  246. Dave Cridland

    Florian, You can't laugh, you weren't born when we had graphics this bad.

  247. fritzy

    it's like that dream where you can't see anyone's faces

  248. fritzy

    this staying awake all night thing was easier when I was younger

  249. fritzy

    I think if we solve the web-integration problems, that the social network stuff will come

  250. fritzy

    because the social network people will come

  251. Dave Cridland

    fritzy, I think that's certainly a lot of it, yes.

  252. hildjj

    i'd be happy to shut the camera off if it's not helpful.

  253. fritzy

    hildjj: what would we complain about then?! ;)

  254. hildjj

    there's no camera that could shoot this room.

  255. fritzy

    it's helpful. Thanks Joe. Sorry for complaining

  256. Lance

    right. the problem right now is that it is too simple and easy to build a silo system, compared to integrating xmpp

  257. hildjj

    the lighting also sucks, which doesn't help.

  258. hildjj

    it's like WebRTC, but with more angle brackets, and a bunch of namespace stuff you won't understand.

  259. Kev

    But it's OK, we can show you how to copy/paste.

  260. fritzy

    right, we have a strong sense of identity

  261. fritzy

    I repeat... if we solve the web integration problem, they'll come.

  262. darkrain

    There's an inherent "that XML stuff is scary; I've seen SOAP" attitude, perhaps

  263. Dave Cridland

    fritzy, Universal identity and addressability, no less.

  264. hildjj

    darkrain: yes. but i'm tired of fighting that battle.

  265. hildjj

    partially because i agree with them. XML blows.

  266. fritzy

    it's a battle not worth fighting anymore.

  267. fritzy

    time for an attitude change

  268. darkrain

    I agree; just need to find a way to side-step it.

  269. hildjj

    right. i've been at least as much of a problem as anyone else for maintaining the status quo, and i'm trying to not be anymore.

  270. fritzy

    :)

  271. SimonTennant

    Cridland: "XMPP: Universal identity and addressability" sounds great.

  272. hildjj

    simon, i usually say "identity-based routing"

  273. Steffen Larsen

    id, presence and routing.. thats how I use it as middleware..

  274. sekistner

    What about scaling, how do you tackle bottlenecks in a federated system?

  275. hildjj

    sekistner: it's always the other guys problem. :)

  276. Dave Cridland

    SimonTennant, Yeah, it's a bit sound-bite-y, but it's the basic thing - every entity in an XMPP network, from the user (or their account in abstract), and each connected client or server, are all given an addressable name.

  277. fritzy

    sekistner: implementation problem... and implementations have solved it.

  278. Dave Cridland

    sekistner, I'm not sure I understand - when a system is highly federated, it tends to scale better (because other people take on more burden).

  279. fritzy

    webrtc people.... GET OUT

  280. Steffen Larsen

    get a room

  281. hildjj

    ok, i'm going to drop from webex. peter can crank the a/v back up.

  282. fritzy

    uhh.. ok

  283. sekistner

    Not in the web usually. If twitter was federated a retweet from Justin bieber kills a small server.

  284. Zash

    That's why "web-scale" is a thing ;)

  285. fritzy

    ugh...

  286. fritzy

    can you guys hear me?

  287. Lance

    nope

  288. Steffen Larsen

    no?

  289. fritzy

    so sad

  290. Steffen Larsen

    fritzy: your screaming?

  291. fritzy

    we're wailing

  292. fritzy

    haha... thanks stpeter

  293. darkrain

    Zash: https://www.google.com/search?q=mongodb+is+webscale seems relevant

  294. stpeter

    video?

  295. fritzy

    stpeter: doesn't matter.. but if you could hear me, that'd be nice.

  296. fritzy

    chaos is good networking

  297. fritzy

    websocket/bosh is a solved problem

  298. stpeter

    fritzy: right

  299. Dave Cridland

    A Chaosnet reference?

  300. sekistner

    Yeah you make fun of web developers and wonder why they ignore xmpp.

  301. stpeter

    :P

  302. fritzy

    I'll be back in 20 min

  303. Florian

    Whitepaper chat: http://piratepad.net/CROClrYlXo

  304. hildjj

    http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-daboo-aggregated-service-discovery

  305. Zash

    no :(

  306. Zash

    Dave Cridland:

  307. Dave Cridland

    So I can hear Peter really well, and the video's pretty good, but I can only hear Ralph if he faces the laptop and talks pretty clear.

  308. Dave Cridland

    Argh! Giant hand!

  309. Zash

    HAha

  310. darkrain

    IT'S ALIVE

  311. Zash

    Dave: Better audio now?

  312. Dave Cridland

    Yes, that's good.

  313. fritzy

    bakc

  314. hildjj

    TINS: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0111.html

  315. Dave Cridland

    fritzy, We're talking pubsub.

  316. Dave Cridland

    fritzy, Well, they are. Strangely, the video's gone back to 8-bit mode.

  317. fritzy

    ok, thanks

  318. Dave Cridland

    This is a shame, because I can no longer read the whiteboard.

  319. Zash

    Dave Cridland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qsWFFuYZYI

  320. Dave Cridland

    Oh. Suddenly, I can see PSA's desktop.

  321. stpeter

    BACON!

  322. Dave Cridland

    Yeah, I heard Bacon...

  323. stpeter

    what do you think aboutmoving item retrieval to the extensions spec?

  324. Dave Cridland

    But I wasn't really paying attention.

  325. Dave Cridland

    OK, I'm all in favour of moving things out of XEP-0060.

  326. fritzy

    so we're slimming pubsub out?

  327. Dave Cridland

    I'm not in favour of moving them into another kitchen sink spec.

  328. fritzy

    we could do a "non-recording" version of pubsub

  329. fritzy

    and then have a storage/retrieval extension

  330. Zash

    Is there a persistence feature?

  331. fritzy

    normally, yes... the idea might be to move that to its own extension

  332. Dave Cridland

    I've never been sure what "persistence" means in terms of pubsub, actually.

  333. fritzy

    items being retrievable

  334. fritzy

    beyond the initial notify message

  335. Dave Cridland

    fritzy, No, I don't think so. I think that's controlled by max_items, not by persistence per se.

  336. Dave Cridland

    SO not about node lifetime at all?

  337. fritzy

    sure.. but they're talking about max_items, and persistence and retrieval being on the side

  338. fritzy

    yeah

  339. Dave Cridland

    RIght, I could go along with that.

  340. Zash

    Right, http://jabber.org/protocol/pubsub#persistent-items was the disco feature

  341. Dave Cridland

    FWIW, one thing I've seen from being engaged in sales calls about pubsub is that every single customer has a different set of requirements for a pubsub service, and there's too many possible variations.

  342. hildjj

    Everyone not in the A/V breakout, please ignore this:

  343. hildjj

    <message to='juliet@example.com'> <sox xmlns='urn:xmpp:sip'> INVITE sip:juliet@example.com SIP/2.0 Via: SIP/2.0/UDP soxcat.example.com;branch=z9hG4bKnashds8 Call-ID: a84b4c76e66710 CSeq: 314159 INVITE Contact: &lt;sip:alice@pc33.atlanta.com&gt; Content-Type: application/sdp Content-Length: 147 v=0 o=UserA 2890844526 2890844526 IN IP4 here.com s=Session SDP c=IN IP4 pc33.atlanta.com t=0 0 m=audio 49172 RTP/AVP 0 a=rtpmap:0 PCMU/8000 </sox> </message>

  344. Dave Cridland

    hildjj, Tunnelling SIP inside XMPP verbatim?

  345. hildjj

    yes.

  346. hildjj

    SIP over XMPP: SoX

  347. fippo

    dave: you're not supposed to listen to this ;-)

  348. Dave Cridland

    fippo, No, because it makes my brain hurt. I can (readily) go along with SDP tunelling; but throwing out Jingle entirely in favour of SIP doesn't strike me as a step forward.

  349. stpeter

    Dave Cridland: SDP tunneling makes some sense for various reasons, including CUSAX clients (which we'll discuss tomorrow when Emil is here)

  350. Adrian Georgescu

    Addressing for federated service * http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3958 * http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-precis-nickname-05 * http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-daboo-aggregated-service-discovery-02

  351. ralphm

    Kev: http://storify.com/kleinmatic/brewing-fresh-coffee-on-an-airplane-as-one-does

  352. bear

    kev: can you create an email alias for howto@xmpp.org and have that go to me, winifred and florian ?

  353. Kev

    Hrmph.

  354. Kev

    I've made it go to just you.

  355. stpeter

    will do :)

  356. bear

    *please*

  357. bear puts on his most innocent smile

  358. Kev

    Email for florian and winifred, please.

  359. Kev

    *Winfried

  360. Florian

    florian@florianjensen.com

  361. winfried

    winfried@tilanus.com

  362. bear

    yea, I know - as soon as I pressed enter I reliazed I spelled it wrong

  363. bear

    that's the american english way I guess

  364. Lance

    should have done a last message correction

  365. Florian

    Swift.im will live for another day :)

  366. bear

    hehe - yes, now that i'm running a real client

  367. stpeter

    Kev: I'm screwing things up, ignore my changes to aliases

  368. Kev

    Peter - you're editing a file I'm alre...

  369. Kev

    Right.

  370. fritzy

    looks good Ralph, Peter

  371. Lance

    +1 on the new organization

  372. stpeter

    fritzy: thanks

  373. Lance

    the spec 1 group maps very cleanly to things like redis pubsub and socket.io

  374. fritzy

    oh yeah, defintely just spreading it out

  375. fritzy

    oh... XEP 60.1, 60.2, 60.3

  376. Zash

    ha

  377. Florian

    :D

  378. bear

    XEP 0060a

  379. Florian

    haha

  380. winfried

    0060bis

  381. Steffen Larsen

    b,c,d,...

  382. fritzy

    oh, can we reserve a block?

  383. fritzy

    I mean, what if we need more xep 60?

  384. fritzy

    ;)

  385. Lance

    xep L60

  386. fritzy

    we could start naming them like cellphones

  387. Dave Cridland

    'T'

  388. Kev

    XEP-0060/255.255.255.0

  389. Zash

    Hahaha

  390. Edwin Mons

    XEP:60::1

  391. Dave Cridland

    And add several others.

  392. stpeter

    Kev: nice :)

  393. bear

    sorry peter, did not realize he had started

  394. stpeter

    bear: no worries :)

  395. Kev

    http://howto.xmpp.org is live.

  396. bear

    thanks kev

  397. stpeter

    yay

  398. Kev

    Enn Pee.

  399. Steffen Larsen

    wuhu! :-)

  400. Florian

    LOL

  401. Florian

    just watch sales skyrocket now :D

  402. Dave Cridland

    Subtle ad, there.

  403. Zash

    Kev: You forgot the HTML5 doctype!

  404. winfried

    kev: I should write a book myself!

  405. Kev

    winfried: Sure, but ours should stay first in the list.

  406. stpeter

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-daboo-aggregated-service-discovery/

  407. stpeter

    Abstract This specification describes how clients can discover multiple services to configure themselves with a minimum of user-provided information, as short as possible sequence of queries and with a minimum of overhead for administrators of the services.

  408. Zash

    stpeter: It's an RFC

  409. stpeter

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-appsawg-webfinger/

  410. stpeter

    Zash: what is an RFC?

  411. Zash

    I thougt it was

  412. stpeter

    Zash: WebFinger is not an RFC yet

  413. stpeter

    it's in Working Group Last Call right now

  414. Zash

    or did I get that mixed up with that other similar thing

  415. Zash

    http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jones-simple-web-discovery-02

  416. Dave Cridland

    The top half of this door really is interesting.

  417. fritzy

    I.... am.... still... awake....

  418. Edwin Mons

    Kev: +1

  419. Dave Cridland

    Insitutional carpet. Nice.

  420. bear

    zombie fritzy

  421. ralphm

    fritzy: given you don't get any sleep now, couldn't you just as well come over?

  422. fritzy

    naw, it was good that I stayed home

  423. Kev

    But we miiiiiss youuuuu.

  424. ralphm

    aren't you mostly useless now there?

  425. SimonTennant

    Kev: yes (http://blog.silktide.com/2013/01/the-stupid-cookie-law-is-dead-at-last/)

  426. Edwin Mons

    Combined Community Codec Pack <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Community_Codec_Pack>

  427. Zash

    :D

  428. Zash

    http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-resnick-on-consensus-00 feels relevant

  429. fritzy

    oh I do!

  430. bear

    kev - be nice to the 4AM brain of peter

  431. hildjj

    that was "tanstaafl" or "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch"

  432. Dave Cridland

    An acronym from The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, I think. Though it could be Stranger In A Strange Land, now I think of it.

  433. bear

    Moon is a Harsh Mistress

  434. Dave Cridland

    Shouldn't Peter refer to "Bad Actors" as "Waiters"?

  435. Zash

    florob: mimiking!

  436. fritzy

    I was in that conversation

  437. fritzy

    prosody implements everything

  438. bear

    :)

  439. Zash

    Implement all the things!

  440. fritzy

    ipv6... every client is a server!

  441. Edwin Mons

    fritzy@[5222::0123:4567:89ab:cdef]

  442. Zash

    :D

  443. darkrain

    Yes! who needs DNS?

  444. Edwin Mons

    Catchy EUI64s.

  445. Lance

    it works

  446. Florob

    Zash, I think I might just have missed some conversation being half asleep

  447. Zash

    Florob: Lots of peter@jabber.org

  448. fritzy

    clap clap

  449. Florob

    Right, some testing/experience how well confusable mappings work against that would be interesting

  450. darkrain

    Zash, Florob: How much of that is due to 6122 (and 3920(?)) discussing cherokee versions of 'stepeter'?

  451. Zash

    darkrain: My thougt also

  452. fritzy

    time for me to get the kids ready for school

  453. fritzy

    see you guys tomorrow!

  454. Kev

    GN.

  455. fippo

    http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ivov-mmusic-trickle-ice-00

  456. Steffen Larsen

    http://developer.cisco.com/web/jabber-developer/get-started ?

  457. Florob

    https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-miller-xmpp-e2e-03

  458. m&m

    that's for end-to-end

  459. Zash

    I like DNA / DANE

  460. m&m

    The DNA framework: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-saintandre-xmpp-dna-00

  461. m&m

    DNSSEC/DANE: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-miller-xmpp-dnssec-prooftype-03

  462. m&m

    http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-miller-xmpp-posh-prooftype-01

  463. Zash

    This bit about if the SRV is DNSSEC-secured, allow the target name in the certificate. I have a patch for this for prosody.

  464. m&m

    cool!