XMPP Summit - 2013-01-31

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  28. bear


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  41. fritzy

    Ralph is a hater.

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  46. winfried

    he is not well-formed...

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  58. fritzy

    must be that crazy Twisted stuff.

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  91. fritzy

    Ralph is really testing Swift's ability to summarize presence changes.

  92. Florian


  93. stpeter


  94. fritzy

    it's too bad, but I can't hear anyone on the other end of the room. It'll work better when we break out into groups, I suppose.

  95. Kev

    fritzy; It's good, though :D

  96. fritzy

    Kev: oh yeah

  97. bear

    I never know what to say for these introductions

  98. Kev

    "Bear". Your name's "Bear".

  99. bear


  100. fritzy


  101. Kev

    Happy to help.

  102. hildjj

    fritzy: it was hard to hear some of those people IRL

  103. Kev

    There. He remembered, phew.

  104. fritzy

    the JSON stuff isn't about changing XMPP.

  105. bear

    yea, that is what we need to keep reminding folks

  106. fritzy

    It's about making a bridge that can run at any layer for the increasing percentage of web developers

  107. fritzy

    "as is traditional..." and then the audio cut off

  108. Kev

    Peter's saying there's lots of stuff we do.

  109. Florian

    If you want to attend the dinner tonight, and haven't filled in the menu yet, do so now

  110. Florian


  111. Kev

    You know all this.

  112. fritzy

    ah, ok. Strange that the audio suddenly stopped working.

  113. Kev

    Is it back?

  114. fritzy


  115. bear

    he's summarizing the areas people have mentioned to start getting working groups set up

  116. fritzy

    this'll be more useful in a smaller group setting anyway

  117. Kev

    I don't think I have any power to d osomething here.

  118. fritzy

    it's ok for now

  119. fritzy

    I'll just participate in the smaller groups as I can

  120. Kev


  121. bear

    if something new is said I will try and repeat it hear

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  123. bear

    MEP, WebRTC, WebSockets and Bosh

  124. bear

    we know now that long polling is not the issue

  125. Kev

    Not the solution, rather.

  126. bear

    jim is redialing now

  127. fritzy

    well, now that we have something better

  128. bear

    err joe

  129. fritzy

    Geeze, Joe is a legend, and you get his name wrong?!

  130. fritzy


  131. bear

    new keyboard

  132. fritzy

    I'll try too

  133. Kev

    bear: Keys all in different places?

  134. bear

    now he is talking about internationalization and mobile support

  135. bear

    kev: no - my thumbs are in new places

  136. Kev

    Ah. I hate it when that happens.

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  138. bear


  139. Dave Cridland


  140. bear

    there is a webex setup

  141. hildjj

    ok, audio should be back?

  142. Dave Cridland

    Ah - where away webex?

  143. fritzy

    ok, I have audio now

  144. hildjj

    dwd: https://cisco.webex.com/cisco/e.php?AT=WMI&EventID=215959417&PW=ae8ea25b403f203f&RT=MiMxNDc%3D

  145. fritzy

    I'm good to stay up all night.

  146. Kev

    So I heard.

  147. winfried

    current thoughts JSON object model

  148. Dave Cridland adds the Webex URI the wiki

  149. fritzy

    wire protocol isn't necessary, but may be done in certain situations

  150. stpeter

    fritzy: let us know if you'd like to channel anything to the room for you

  151. stpeter set the topic to

    http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_13 | https://cisco.webex.com/cisco/e.php?AT=WMI&EventID=215959417&PW=ae8ea25b403f203f&RT=MiMxNDc%3D

  152. fritzy

    yeah, let me know when I have a chance to summarize my thoughts

  153. stpeter

    fritzy: will do

  154. stpeter

    fritzy: our audio is not so great here so we might need to repeat some of what you say here (or crank it up to 11!)

  155. fritzy


  156. fritzy

    It's important to clarify that this is a subset of XMPP. It's not extensible, although we might have a XEP for passing generic JSON blobs.

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  158. Dave Cridland

    This webex thing is fun. All the power of Animated GIF.

  159. Dave Cridland

    Oh, and now buzzing instead of audio.

  160. fritzy


  161. fritzy

    oh, fixed

  162. Dave Cridland

    Unless you've all started monotonically humming?

  163. hildjj

    sorry, that was peter.

  164. Dave Cridland

    Ah, for me as well.

  165. stpeter

    sorry, was playing with the audio settings here

  166. fritzy

    Dave: are you not in the room then?

  167. Dave Cridland

    I'm in *a* room...

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  170. stpeter

    hold on!!!

  171. stpeter

    I hung up on you

  172. darkrain

    fritzy: We hung up on you (apparently)

  173. fritzy


  174. Steffen Larsen

    he he he

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  176. stpeter

    please hold :)

  177. fritzy

    what I was saying is that as far as what developers wants varies greatly

  178. fritzy

    the commonality is that they won't touch XML

  179. fritzy

    because their XML tools have been so bad for so long

  180. fritzy

    and when they think about extensibility, they're thinking about sending their own blobs as payload

  181. Steffen Larsen

    but that does not sound extensible

  182. Steffen Larsen


  183. stpeter

    we still need to get the audio working again

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  185. fritzy


  186. Dave Cridland

    No REST for the wicked.

  187. fritzy

    Not REST... we're not talking routing or verb translation.

  188. bear

    sorry - rest is just my comfort area for web stuff

  189. fritzy

    There is some code. stanza.io

  190. stpeter

    you're back

  191. stpeter

    on audio

  192. Dave Cridland

    I can't here any of this (aside from PSA).

  193. Kev

    He's the only person near the mic.

  194. Dave Cridland


  195. fritzy

    Federation, security, etc.

  196. darkrain

    "Some people want presence+routing. Other people want pubsub."

  197. Kev

    Steffen was just saying that we can't solve all problems, but we can work out a common lib.

  198. fritzy

    presence, routing, rosters, identity.

  199. stpeter

    fritzy: right

  200. Kev

    common requirements, for an API>

  201. Lance

    basically: what can we provide to be better than socket.io

  202. Steffen Larsen

    fritzy: exactly

  203. fritzy

    and then pubsub

  204. stpeter

    fritzy: pubsub in 1.1 or whatever

  205. stpeter

    fritzy: or a more native pubsubby thing

  206. fritzy


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  209. fritzy

    Right... strophe expects you to write and parse XML, and no other lib forces you to do that

  210. stpeter

    fritzy: yes

  211. fritzy

    Strophe is mostly just a BOSH connection manager.

  212. fritzy

    It's simply not enough

  213. stpeter

    fritzy: yes

  214. stpeter

    that's right

  215. fritzy

    and it's not even just about XML... we're expecting application developers to write the wire protocol.

  216. Dave Cridland

    Right, they want to take some simple API, and throw a javascript object at some endpoint, and get one back.

  217. fritzy


  218. fritzy

    now that's not to discount the people that want to do more, so I disagree with some of the things you were saying (that it should never be more than that)

  219. Dave Cridland

    Yes and no. For things like MUC, I'm not sure if doing anything different on the wire is the right direction - I think a neat layer over STrophe is possibly the better chocie.

  220. Dave Cridland

    (Sorry, typing shot this morning).

  221. fritzy

    sure sure... an I agree. But we can kill two birds with one stone... we can make a JSON SDK that can /potentially/ be translated on the other side of the wire.

  222. Dave Cridland

    s/JSON/Javascript object and native feel/ and you're on.

  223. Steffen Larsen

    I still feel strange that we are talking about SDKs when we are doing protocols.. :-)

  224. Dave Cridland

    Because the SDK is what's visible, and that's what gains mindshare.

  225. Steffen Larsen

    Dave: I know..

  226. Dave Cridland

    With most of our protocol design, we talk about end-user (or end-entity) actions, then see how to translate them onto things on the wire. Here we're a layer down, is all.

  227. fritzy

    Well, that's why people love JSON... because it can be a Javascript object OR a serialized thing

  228. ralphm

    So apparently Buddycloud has its annual company outing

  229. fritzy

    so... is there anything going on in the room right now? cause we have no audio

  230. Kev

    fritzy: We're ascertaining interest in the topics.

  231. Steffen Larsen

    no talking about the different topics

  232. fritzy

    I'll kill my video so you don't have to stare at me picking my nose then.

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  234. Dave Cridland

    I'll point my video at the dog.

  235. Florian


  236. fritzy

    your dog is licking itself, I think

  237. Dave Cridland

    He's having a scratch.

  238. Florian

    we'll be back in 15mins

  239. fritzy

    k, what are the breakout groups?

  240. bear

    we haven't decided yet

  241. Dave Cridland

    Oh, the dog's gone camera shy.

  242. Florian

    i'm going to Google+ them

  243. bear

    they are taking a bio brak

  244. fritzy

    oh, I thought that was what was being discussed. :)

  245. Florian

    the topics are on the G+ event

  246. hildjj

    i'm trying some other A/V options while we're taking a break.

  247. fritzy

    Florian yeah? I don't see an event...

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  250. fritzy


  251. fritzy

    How've you been, Zash?

  252. fritzy

    I'm making coffee and Dave is making tea.

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  254. Florian

    fritzy: sent you an invite to the event

  255. Florian

    anyone else not part of the XMPP Summit e ent?

  256. Florian

    I'm in G+ Party Mode streaming some pics there

  257. Florian

    topics are up

  258. Florian


  259. hildjj

    For file transfer, look at XEPs: 95, 96, 65

  260. fritzy

    for a good time, call Joe

  261. Zash

    fritzy: Fine, thanks. I arrive. Except now we're out of coffee. I may have had something to do with that...

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  263. bear

    can you hear him?

  264. Zash

    Kev: Tobias did implement -PLUS, but it has not been merged yet

  265. fritzy

    bear: yes

  266. fritzy

    thanks guy

  267. fritzy


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  272. bear

    lance - what is your jid? I just realized I don't have you in my roster

  273. SimonTennant has joined

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  276. Steffen Larsen

    WebRTC and MUC: http://candy-chat.github.com/candy-webrtc/

  277. Dave Cridland

    Alexey tried to make DIGEST-MD5 use saslprep, but as I recall is was a rathole.

  278. hildjj

    dave: that's my recollection. the whole idea of having a separate *prep for SASL vs. your application protocol is a little wonky anyway.

  279. Dave Cridland

    hildjj, Well, given that SASL authentication identifiers are already technically unrelated to the authorization identifiers from the protocol, maybe it makes some weird kind of sense.

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  281. Dave Cridland

    Not that I can really hear much of what's said, but Kurt Zeilenga's take here is that it makes sense to have multiple jids, one in ASCII and one not, and either have some mechanism to find out the real non-ASCII jid from the ASCII handle, or else have the server actually remember which jid alias to use for which contact.

  282. Zash

    Did you just say 'jid alias'?

  283. Dave Cridland

    Zash, Yes, but actually in the sense I used it I mean jid equivalent.

  284. Kev

    Dave Cridland: Yes, but that's to solve a different problem.

  285. Dave Cridland

    Kev, Ah, OK.

  286. Kev

    Kurt's argument for having an ascii and a non-ascii is so you can put easy things on your business card or whatever.

  287. Kev

    Rather than suggesting that Japanese folks need to have an ASCII JID.

  288. Dave Cridland

    Kev, Right.

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  290. Dave Cridland

    Kev, But ISTR his general goal is remote canonicalization.

  291. ralphm

    with something like punycode?

  292. Dave Cridland

    Where is the microphone? Because I now can't here Kev, even. Is it shielded by the laptop lids?

  293. Kev

    I'm just not shouting any more. I was making an effort TO PROJECT earlier.

  294. ralphm

    up front

  295. Dave Cridland

    Kev, You is becomin' an hack-toor?

  296. ralphm

    Can you hear Kev now?

  297. Dave Cridland

    Very much so.

  298. Dave Cridland

    If he projects much more we can drop the webex, I think.

  299. ralphm

    he's presenting now

  300. Dave Cridland

    Of course, I can't see his diagram.

  301. ralphm


  302. Dave Cridland

    Yes. Though for a brief moment I could only see his crotch.

  303. Zash


  304. darkrain


  305. Zash

    What darkrain said

  306. darkrain

    here's a muc, there's a muc. everyone muc muc

  307. Lloyd

    you beat me to that joke :)

  308. darkrain

    Great minds and all that.

  309. Dave Cridland

    These two mucs count as one muc.

  310. Zash

    Did Kev say MUCeption?

  311. Zash

    Everything needs more MAM!

  312. Dave Cridland

    You can turn me round again now.

  313. SimonTennant

    Zash: +1

  314. Dave Cridland


  315. fritzy

    End <- encryption -> End

  316. fritzy

    like that?

  317. Dave Cridland

    We have a discussion about e2e encryption every time, so should have one this time if only for tradition's sake.

  318. Lance

    can someone just tell us how to do it properly this time?

  319. SimonTennant

    Somewhat related to Federated MUC is the Zookeeper project ZAB: http://research.yahoo.com/files/ladis08.pdf

  320. Dave Cridland

    Lance, The encryption bit is easy, it's the authentication and key exchange bit that's so damn hard.

  321. fritzy

    did we lose audio?

  322. fritzy

    oh, there it is

  323. Dave Cridland

    fritzy, They lost speech.

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  325. fritzy

    I have a lot of opinions on xmpp as middleware

  326. fritzy

    ok, I just have one big one.

  327. fritzy

    Don't do it unless you're federating data.

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  329. Dave Cridland

    I think it also depends on where your middle is.

  330. fritzy


  331. Dave Cridland

    XMPP does to the auth stuff pretty well.

  332. Dave Cridland

    does do.

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  334. fritzy

    right, but middleware is often network secured rather than identity authed

  335. Steffen Larsen

    fritzy: no thats not always true..

  336. fritzy

    often, as I said

  337. Steffen Larsen


  338. Dave Cridland

    Right, purely internal middleware is not interesting, but if your middleware is talking over the internet, say, that changes things whether federation is in play or not.

  339. fritzy


  340. fritzy

    don't bother unless it's going over the public net

  341. Dave Cridland

    I personally suspect that middleware is talking over mobile links and direct-to-browser a lot more than it used to.

  342. fritzy

    sure sure... clients are further out

  343. Lance

    dave: yes, it is

  344. fritzy

    social network: might wait for Simon tomorrow?

  345. Zash

    He's here

  346. Kev

    fritzy: He's here.

  347. fritzy


  348. Dave Cridland

    fritzy, I think he's that collection of eight pixels towards the end on the left.

  349. fritzy

    this cisco tech is really amazing

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  351. Dave Cridland

    It's like being in the room.

  352. abmargb has joined

  353. Dave Cridland

    In a parallel universe where you see in 8-bit games console graphics.

  354. fritzy

    yeah well, most of it is filled in by my imagination and remembering actually being in that room

  355. Florian


  356. Dave Cridland

    Florian, You can't laugh, you weren't born when we had graphics this bad.

  357. fritzy

    it's like that dream where you can't see anyone's faces

  358. fritzy

    this staying awake all night thing was easier when I was younger

  359. fritzy

    I think if we solve the web-integration problems, that the social network stuff will come

  360. fritzy

    because the social network people will come

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  362. Dave Cridland

    fritzy, I think that's certainly a lot of it, yes.

  363. hildjj

    i'd be happy to shut the camera off if it's not helpful.

  364. fritzy

    hildjj: what would we complain about then?! ;)

  365. hildjj

    there's no camera that could shoot this room.

  366. fritzy

    it's helpful. Thanks Joe. Sorry for complaining

  367. Lance

    right. the problem right now is that it is too simple and easy to build a silo system, compared to integrating xmpp

  368. hildjj

    the lighting also sucks, which doesn't help.

  369. hildjj

    it's like WebRTC, but with more angle brackets, and a bunch of namespace stuff you won't understand.

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  371. Kev

    But it's OK, we can show you how to copy/paste.

  372. fritzy

    right, we have a strong sense of identity

  373. fritzy

    I repeat... if we solve the web integration problem, they'll come.

  374. darkrain

    There's an inherent "that XML stuff is scary; I've seen SOAP" attitude, perhaps

  375. Dave Cridland

    fritzy, Universal identity and addressability, no less.

  376. hildjj

    darkrain: yes. but i'm tired of fighting that battle.

  377. hildjj

    partially because i agree with them. XML blows.

  378. fritzy

    it's a battle not worth fighting anymore.

  379. fritzy

    time for an attitude change

  380. darkrain

    I agree; just need to find a way to side-step it.

  381. hildjj

    right. i've been at least as much of a problem as anyone else for maintaining the status quo, and i'm trying to not be anymore.

  382. fritzy


  383. SimonTennant

    Cridland: "XMPP: Universal identity and addressability" sounds great.

  384. hildjj

    simon, i usually say "identity-based routing"

  385. Steffen Larsen

    id, presence and routing.. thats how I use it as middleware..

  386. sekistner

    What about scaling, how do you tackle bottlenecks in a federated system?

  387. hildjj

    sekistner: it's always the other guys problem. :)

  388. Dave Cridland

    SimonTennant, Yeah, it's a bit sound-bite-y, but it's the basic thing - every entity in an XMPP network, from the user (or their account in abstract), and each connected client or server, are all given an addressable name.

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  390. fritzy

    sekistner: implementation problem... and implementations have solved it.

  391. Dave Cridland

    sekistner, I'm not sure I understand - when a system is highly federated, it tends to scale better (because other people take on more burden).

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  394. fritzy

    webrtc people.... GET OUT

  395. Lloyd has joined

  396. Steffen Larsen

    get a room

  397. hildjj

    ok, i'm going to drop from webex. peter can crank the a/v back up.

  398. fritzy

    uhh.. ok

  399. hildjj has left

  400. sekistner

    Not in the web usually. If twitter was federated a retweet from Justin bieber kills a small server.

  401. Zash

    That's why "web-scale" is a thing ;)

  402. fritzy


  403. fritzy

    can you guys hear me?

  404. Lance


  405. Steffen Larsen


  406. fritzy

    so sad

  407. Steffen Larsen

    fritzy: your screaming?

  408. fritzy

    we're wailing

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  411. fritzy

    haha... thanks stpeter

  412. darkrain

    Zash: https://www.google.com/search?q=mongodb+is+webscale seems relevant

  413. stpeter


  414. fritzy

    stpeter: doesn't matter.. but if you could hear me, that'd be nice.

  415. fritzy

    chaos is good networking

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  418. fritzy

    websocket/bosh is a solved problem

  419. stpeter

    fritzy: right

  420. Dave Cridland

    A Chaosnet reference?

  421. sekistner

    Yeah you make fun of web developers and wonder why they ignore xmpp.

  422. stpeter


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  426. fritzy

    I'll be back in 20 min

  427. abmargb has joined

  428. Florian

    Whitepaper chat: http://piratepad.net/CROClrYlXo

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  431. hildjj


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  433. Zash

    no :(

  434. Zash

    Dave Cridland:

  435. Dave Cridland

    So I can hear Peter really well, and the video's pretty good, but I can only hear Ralph if he faces the laptop and talks pretty clear.

  436. Dave Cridland

    Argh! Giant hand!

  437. Zash


  438. darkrain


  439. Zash

    Dave: Better audio now?

  440. Dave Cridland

    Yes, that's good.

  441. fritzy


  442. hildjj

    TINS: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0111.html

  443. Dave Cridland

    fritzy, We're talking pubsub.

  444. Dave Cridland

    fritzy, Well, they are. Strangely, the video's gone back to 8-bit mode.

  445. fritzy

    ok, thanks

  446. Dave Cridland

    This is a shame, because I can no longer read the whiteboard.

  447. Zash

    Dave Cridland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qsWFFuYZYI

  448. Lance has joined

  449. Dave Cridland

    Oh. Suddenly, I can see PSA's desktop.

  450. stpeter


  451. Dave Cridland

    Yeah, I heard Bacon...

  452. stpeter

    what do you think aboutmoving item retrieval to the extensions spec?

  453. Dave Cridland

    But I wasn't really paying attention.

  454. Dave Cridland

    OK, I'm all in favour of moving things out of XEP-0060.

  455. fritzy

    so we're slimming pubsub out?

  456. Dave Cridland

    I'm not in favour of moving them into another kitchen sink spec.

  457. fritzy

    we could do a "non-recording" version of pubsub

  458. fritzy

    and then have a storage/retrieval extension

  459. Zash

    Is there a persistence feature?

  460. fritzy

    normally, yes... the idea might be to move that to its own extension

  461. Dave Cridland

    I've never been sure what "persistence" means in terms of pubsub, actually.

  462. fritzy

    items being retrievable

  463. fritzy

    beyond the initial notify message

  464. Dave Cridland

    fritzy, No, I don't think so. I think that's controlled by max_items, not by persistence per se.

  465. Dave Cridland

    SO not about node lifetime at all?

  466. fritzy

    sure.. but they're talking about max_items, and persistence and retrieval being on the side

  467. fritzy


  468. Dave Cridland

    RIght, I could go along with that.

  469. Zash

    Right, http://jabber.org/protocol/pubsub#persistent-items was the disco feature

  470. Dave Cridland

    FWIW, one thing I've seen from being engaged in sales calls about pubsub is that every single customer has a different set of requirements for a pubsub service, and there's too many possible variations.

  471. hildjj

    Everyone not in the A/V breakout, please ignore this:

  472. hildjj

    <message to='juliet@example.com'> <sox xmlns='urn:xmpp:sip'> INVITE sip:juliet@example.com SIP/2.0 Via: SIP/2.0/UDP soxcat.example.com;branch=z9hG4bKnashds8 Call-ID: a84b4c76e66710 CSeq: 314159 INVITE Contact: &lt;sip:alice@pc33.atlanta.com&gt; Content-Type: application/sdp Content-Length: 147 v=0 o=UserA 2890844526 2890844526 IN IP4 here.com s=Session SDP c=IN IP4 pc33.atlanta.com t=0 0 m=audio 49172 RTP/AVP 0 a=rtpmap:0 PCMU/8000 </sox> </message>

  473. Dave Cridland

    hildjj, Tunnelling SIP inside XMPP verbatim?

  474. hildjj


  475. hildjj

    SIP over XMPP: SoX

  476. fippo

    dave: you're not supposed to listen to this ;-)

  477. Dave Cridland

    fippo, No, because it makes my brain hurt. I can (readily) go along with SDP tunelling; but throwing out Jingle entirely in favour of SIP doesn't strike me as a step forward.

  478. miconda has joined

  479. stpeter

    Dave Cridland: SDP tunneling makes some sense for various reasons, including CUSAX clients (which we'll discuss tomorrow when Emil is here)

  480. chenzo has joined

  481. Adrian Georgescu

    Addressing for federated service * http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3958 * http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-precis-nickname-05 * http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-daboo-aggregated-service-discovery-02

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  493. ralphm

    Kev: http://storify.com/kleinmatic/brewing-fresh-coffee-on-an-airplane-as-one-does

  494. sekistner has joined

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  498. bear

    kev: can you create an email alias for howto@xmpp.org and have that go to me, winifred and florian ?

  499. Kev


  500. Kev

    I've made it go to just you.

  501. stpeter

    will do :)

  502. bear


  503. bear puts on his most innocent smile

  504. Kev

    Email for florian and winifred, please.

  505. Kev


  506. Florian


  507. winfried


  508. bear

    yea, I know - as soon as I pressed enter I reliazed I spelled it wrong

  509. bear

    that's the american english way I guess

  510. Lance

    should have done a last message correction

  511. Florian

    Swift.im will live for another day :)

  512. bear

    hehe - yes, now that i'm running a real client

  513. stpeter

    Kev: I'm screwing things up, ignore my changes to aliases

  514. Kev

    Peter - you're editing a file I'm alre...

  515. Kev


  516. fritzy

    looks good Ralph, Peter

  517. Lance

    +1 on the new organization

  518. stpeter

    fritzy: thanks

  519. Lance

    the spec 1 group maps very cleanly to things like redis pubsub and socket.io

  520. fritzy

    oh yeah, defintely just spreading it out

  521. fritzy

    oh... XEP 60.1, 60.2, 60.3

  522. Zash


  523. Florian


  524. bear

    XEP 0060a

  525. Florian


  526. winfried


  527. Steffen Larsen


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  529. fritzy

    oh, can we reserve a block?

  530. fritzy

    I mean, what if we need more xep 60?

  531. fritzy


  532. Lance

    xep L60

  533. fritzy

    we could start naming them like cellphones

  534. Dave Cridland


  535. Kev


  536. Zash


  537. Edwin Mons


  538. Dave Cridland

    And add several others.

  539. stpeter

    Kev: nice :)

  540. bear

    sorry peter, did not realize he had started

  541. stpeter

    bear: no worries :)

  542. abmargb has left

  543. Kev

    http://howto.xmpp.org is live.

  544. bear

    thanks kev

  545. stpeter


  546. Kev

    Enn Pee.

  547. Steffen Larsen

    wuhu! :-)

  548. Florian


  549. Florian

    just watch sales skyrocket now :D

  550. Dave Cridland

    Subtle ad, there.

  551. Zash

    Kev: You forgot the HTML5 doctype!

  552. winfried

    kev: I should write a book myself!

  553. Kev

    winfried: Sure, but ours should stay first in the list.

  554. stpeter


  555. stpeter

    Abstract This specification describes how clients can discover multiple services to configure themselves with a minimum of user-provided information, as short as possible sequence of queries and with a minimum of overhead for administrators of the services.

  556. Zash

    stpeter: It's an RFC

  557. stpeter


  558. stpeter

    Zash: what is an RFC?

  559. Zash

    I thougt it was

  560. stpeter

    Zash: WebFinger is not an RFC yet

  561. stpeter

    it's in Working Group Last Call right now

  562. Zash

    or did I get that mixed up with that other similar thing

  563. Zash


  564. chenzo has joined

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  566. Dave Cridland

    The top half of this door really is interesting.

  567. SimonTennant has joined

  568. fritzy

    I.... am.... still... awake....

  569. Edwin Mons

    Kev: +1

  570. Dave Cridland

    Insitutional carpet. Nice.

  571. bear

    zombie fritzy

  572. ralphm

    fritzy: given you don't get any sleep now, couldn't you just as well come over?

  573. sekistner has left

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  575. fritzy

    naw, it was good that I stayed home

  576. Kev

    But we miiiiiss youuuuu.

  577. ralphm

    aren't you mostly useless now there?

  578. SimonTennant

    Kev: yes (http://blog.silktide.com/2013/01/the-stupid-cookie-law-is-dead-at-last/)

  579. Edwin Mons

    Combined Community Codec Pack <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Community_Codec_Pack>

  580. Zash


  581. Zash

    http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-resnick-on-consensus-00 feels relevant

  582. fritzy

    oh I do!

  583. bear

    kev - be nice to the 4AM brain of peter

  584. chenzo has left

  585. hildjj

    that was "tanstaafl" or "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch"

  586. Dave Cridland

    An acronym from The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, I think. Though it could be Stranger In A Strange Land, now I think of it.

  587. bear

    Moon is a Harsh Mistress

  588. Dave Cridland

    Shouldn't Peter refer to "Bad Actors" as "Waiters"?

  589. Zash

    florob: mimiking!

  590. fritzy

    I was in that conversation

  591. fritzy

    prosody implements everything

  592. bear


  593. Zash

    Implement all the things!

  594. fritzy

    ipv6... every client is a server!

  595. Edwin Mons


  596. Zash


  597. darkrain

    Yes! who needs DNS?

  598. Florob has joined

  599. Edwin Mons

    Catchy EUI64s.

  600. Lance

    it works

  601. Florob

    Zash, I think I might just have missed some conversation being half asleep

  602. Zash

    Florob: Lots of peter@jabber.org

  603. fritzy

    clap clap

  604. Florob

    Right, some testing/experience how well confusable mappings work against that would be interesting

  605. darkrain

    Zash, Florob: How much of that is due to 6122 (and 3920(?)) discussing cherokee versions of 'stepeter'?

  606. Zash

    darkrain: My thougt also

  607. Steffen Larsen has left

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  610. fritzy

    time for me to get the kids ready for school

  611. fritzy

    see you guys tomorrow!

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  614. Kev


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  619. fippo


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  625. Steffen Larsen

    http://developer.cisco.com/web/jabber-developer/get-started ?

  626. m&m has joined

  627. Florob


  628. m&m

    that's for end-to-end

  629. Zash

    I like DNA / DANE

  630. m&m

    The DNA framework: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-saintandre-xmpp-dna-00

  631. miconda has joined

  632. m&m

    DNSSEC/DANE: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-miller-xmpp-dnssec-prooftype-03

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  637. m&m


  638. Zash

    This bit about if the SRV is DNSSEC-secured, allow the target name in the certificate. I have a patch for this for prosody.

  639. m&m


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