XMPP Summit - 2013-10-21

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08:23:09 jabberjocke hi any details for remote participation in the summit?
08:24:06 jabberjocke it's a bit early at the moment
08:33:06 Steffen Larsen they are like 9 hours behind, but I think that there will be a hangout, like last time
08:33:10 Steffen Larsen ironically
08:33:19 Steffen Larsen we should do a webRTC
08:33:21 Steffen Larsen ;-)
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13:41:04 albert And only 9 participants allowed in the hangout.
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16:15:33 Kev m&m: You can't?
16:15:41 m&m now I can
16:15:43 m&m I think
16:15:53 m&m tries something
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16:16:07 m&m yay
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16:24:08 stpeter set the topic to Summit 14, Portland
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16:27:27 stpeter http://piratepad.net/L89H3Q8rao
16:27:41 stpeter set the topic to Summit 14, Portland | http://piratepad.net/L89H3Q8rao
16:28:27 lloyd https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f1eca0311bb12a659a2abbc58ee581d8e37eaa3d?hl=en-GB
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16:32:16 winfried Hi there!
16:32:22 m&m waves
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16:35:53 winfried is a bit overthrown by the devastating silence here ;-)
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16:39:01 Zash EHLO
16:39:37 m&m 250 Hello
16:43:40 lloyd See hangout link above. Hopefully when Lance and Fritzy arrive it'll be moved to a better computer (read: not my laptop)
16:49:39 m&m hopefully better A/V equipment shows up soon
16:49:45 m&m the current speakers are faint
16:50:15 lloyd Sorry, on laptop microphone
16:50:37 m&m evidently, and I've got some idea of XMPP latency between you and here (-:
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16:57:10 Dave Cridland EHLO dave.cridland.net
16:58:05 Tobias <stream:error><not-well-formed xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-streams'/></stream:error>
16:58:10 Dave Cridland lloyd, Where's the hangout link? I'll join on this and should be able to spin it up on the back camera, point it at Simon and stuffs.
16:58:22 lloyd https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f1eca0311bb12a659a2abbc58ee581d8e37eaa3d?hl=en-GB
17:00:30 winfried thanks dave!
17:01:34 m&m the audio is slightly better, but the video is gone
17:01:58 winfried yeah, it was a short peek
17:02:01 Dave Cridland Oh, it drops video when I switch away?
17:02:05 m&m apparently
17:02:18 m&m back
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17:24:28 winfried think we should stay away from a discussion on trust, but indeed on compatibility
17:24:39 winfried (do you trust verisign?)
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17:27:31 winfried Hi steffen!
17:27:39 winfried See the history for the hangout link
17:27:56 Zash mumbles about google
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17:28:47 Steffen Hi Winfried!
17:28:51 Steffen long time no see!
17:28:56 winfried yeah!
17:29:09 winfried too many projects still on the shelves :-P
17:29:31 Steffen winfried: all well? Haven't seen you online for some time.. but that might just be the projects. :-)
17:29:54 winfried my presence had been a bit erratic, yes
17:29:59 Steffen :-)
17:30:30 winfried not cooperating much online right now, so I get a bit sloppy with my IM clients...
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17:30:41 Steffen why not using webRTC and XMPP instead of hangout?.. just such a paradox. :-)
17:31:09 winfried would love to testdrive it...
17:31:29 fippo steffen: because multiuser is hard with webrtc
17:31:48 Tobias fippo, still full mesh-only?
17:31:57 Steffen ohh I see
17:32:03 Steffen p2p...
17:32:31 fippo tobias: unless you want to pay a silo for providing MCU services ;-)
17:32:39 Steffen fippo: we can do it like skype did it.. auch
17:32:45 Steffen ha ha yes
17:32:57 Tobias fippo, can't we throw jingle nodes at that problem ^^
17:33:16 Tobias just use one of your powerful contacts as MCU
17:33:32 fippo that is something we might try soonish
17:34:15 Tobias but yeah...with video, each participant takes an even bigger chunk out of your bandwidth
17:34:22 Steffen fippo: otherwise it looked cool at the realtimeconf.. was it you that lance was conencting to?
17:34:35 fippo steffen: yes, that was me
17:34:35 Steffen fippo: just saw the video
17:35:00 fippo https://github.com/legastero/jingle-interop-demos -- check those against your favorite xmppserver
17:35:22 winfried btw: can I view a video of that presentation somewhere?
17:36:02 fippo winfried: http://vimeo.com/77289728
17:36:08 winfried thanks!
17:37:45 Steffen had some problems with the andyet impl.. (talky.io) in chrome
17:37:55 m&m we lost the feed
17:38:03 MattJ Dave just noticed
17:38:16 Steffen and my browser died...
17:38:19 Steffen yawn
17:38:22 m&m he's horrible at A/V Club (-:
17:38:27 m&m who hired that loser (-:
17:38:32 Steffen :-)
17:38:34 MattJ Was it a hangout? or talky.io?
17:38:34 m&m ralphm: no audio
17:39:07 ralphm oh, I thought somebody would send audio
17:39:15 ralphm reenabling
17:39:39 m&m audio is back
17:39:40 winfried yes
17:39:44 ralphm better?
17:39:46 winfried yes
17:39:48 m&m yes
17:42:16 Dave Cridland Sorry, I'll reconnect.
17:42:25 Dave Cridland Only me talking, so uninteresting. :-)
17:42:59 m&m TOO MUCH AUDIO!
17:43:11 Steffen auuch stop that noise
17:43:13 darkrain echooooooooooooooooo
17:43:15 winfried certainly unintresting ;-)
17:43:17 m&m yeah
17:43:36 m&m two active mics + one room - mixer == BAD
17:44:19 jabberjocke how to connect to the hangout ?
17:44:30 m&m https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f1eca0311bb12a659a2abbc58ee581d8e37eaa3d?hl=en-GB
17:46:30 Tobias ah..posh talk :)
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17:50:30 winfried lost audio
17:50:35 Steffen me too
17:50:41 ralphm m&m muted me
17:50:51 m&m sorry!
17:50:51 Steffen audio back
17:50:56 Steffen thanks
17:50:57 m&m I hit the wrong button
17:50:58 Tobias is only seeing that bearded guy
17:51:03 Steffen ha ha
17:51:06 m&m then it wouldn't let me unmute /-:
17:55:53 winfried we could turn the xmpp server network in some kind of onion routing
17:56:08 winfried think about it, much of the infrastructure is already there...
17:56:42 m&m and then you could involve clients, if they're willing to suffer through any bandwidth increases
17:56:50 m&m which could be interesting
17:57:29 winfried definitely
17:59:20 Zash proxy65 over proxy65??
18:00:10 Tobias Zash, want to beat WebRTC in crazy protocol layering?
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18:02:55 Zash Tobias: Multiple layers of prox65 is not nearly crazy enough to even compete with WebRTC
18:03:34 Dave Cridland I see Ralph's figured out captions. :-)
18:04:05 winfried pretty neat yes
18:04:11 Steffen more of those
18:05:23 Dave Cridland Ralph's now quitting XMPP and going into TV news.
18:05:30 ralphm :-)
18:05:50 Steffen ha ha.. ralph the producer
18:05:53 m&m he is a superior cameraman than the previous loser (-:
18:06:00 Steffen :-)
18:06:37 Dave Cridland m&m, That from someone who accidentally muted the feed...
18:06:59 m&m I blame the tooling
18:16:38 m&m dropping … if the sec or BOSH stuff starts back, could someone ping me? gracias
18:17:03 winfried ok
18:29:40 Steffen wow stpeter got a new non-mac laptop
18:29:56 Steffen or is it my eyes
18:29:58 ralphm yeah, it is a System 76
18:30:03 Steffen nice
18:30:05 winfried linux...
18:30:10 Steffen can it run OSX? ;-)
18:32:30 Steffen it seems like we are not web devs.. ;-)
18:33:30 Zash Does it run XTerm?
18:33:57 Steffen good idea Simon,. I agree
18:34:17 Steffen on the front page and put simple
18:34:32 winfried Better describe what you can do with XMPP
18:35:16 ralphm http://web.archive.org/web/20090207135716/http://xmpp.org/ is what we had before
18:36:59 Steffen or a video.. like amqp has: http://www.amqp.org/video
18:37:26 Steffen m2m
18:37:38 winfried military2military?
18:37:41 Steffen :-)
18:38:12 winfried but indeed: give an idea about what can be done with it, give examples of applications, its strongs
18:38:28 Tobias yup...sounds good
18:39:40 Steffen yeah. I've done satellite com, TV presence, second screen.. but not that much chat.. and people does not know that.
18:40:20 Steffen use XMPP because of routing, security and federation
18:40:22 Steffen :-)
18:40:50 winfried And a great ecosystem containing a lot of building blocks
18:40:56 Steffen exactly
18:41:31 Steffen amqp impl.. :http://www.rabbitmq.com/
18:41:49 winfried ralphm: we all want the tutorials, whitepapers etc, but none of us takes the time to write them.... I feel the real problem is in there...
18:41:59 Steffen and they got good tutorials
18:42:09 jabberjocke http://www.rabbitmq.com/getstarted.html
18:42:35 Steffen I like the way that the tutorials are organized..
18:43:25 winfried yeah, that is nice
18:44:08 ralphm winfried: I thought I said exactly that
18:44:50 winfried well... living in two worlds right now,might be missing some points...
18:45:24 ralphm winfried: I frown upon your dedication to this summit :-D
18:45:26 Steffen the tutorials are organised after patterns.. I like that. If we could do that.. but it might be hard, because of our genral purpose protocol
18:45:43 ralphm Steffen: right
18:46:03 winfried :-D
18:46:03 ralphm Steffen: but to explain something like pubsub (only) it is pretty good
18:46:05 jabberjocke We have the wiki I started to do this for IoT on http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages/IoT_systems
18:46:29 Steffen I've started to use rabbitmq for half a year ago.. and I'm almost an expert now.. It took me several years with XMPP ... :-)
18:46:38 Steffen jabberjocke: cool
18:46:51 Steffen I've started a white paper about large scale xmpp..
18:47:25 Steffen ralphm: yes. So we could dig out some genral patterns.. for routing
18:47:45 Steffen ralphm: pub/sub, direct presence, etc.
18:48:02 jabberjocke steffen: thats intresting, large in klients or large in nr of domains
18:48:15 Steffen jabberjocke: large in clients :-)
18:48:32 Steffen jabberjocke: but they do stick a bit together
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18:50:31 jabberjocke steffen: the IoT challenge is the management of large number of clients in each domain that need to interact with each other
18:50:46 jabberjocke over the domainborders
18:51:25 Steffen he he yes
18:52:07 jabberjocke and I don't know if thats ever possible with rabbitmq
18:52:29 Steffen you can do routing and filters
18:53:23 Steffen of course pub/sub, topics etc. but to compare that with XMPP would'nt be fair. :-)
18:53:54 jabberjocke it's all about access to the server.
18:54:03 jabberjocke xmpp is all from the klients
18:54:19 Steffen yes
18:54:48 jabberjocke we can have another session on this :)
18:54:57 Steffen jabberjocke: sure :-)
18:57:25 Steffen does anybody know if this video session is being recorded?.. because I won't stay up all night.
18:59:31 Tobias g2g...have fun
18:59:49 winfried cu
19:00:11 Steffen cheers Tobias
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19:02:44 jabberjocke well have good lunch
19:02:49 winfried have a nice meal!
19:02:50 jabberjocke 9pm in Uppsala
19:03:03 jabberjocke another coffe I would say
19:03:07 winfried already had dinner here ;-)
19:03:09 Tobias has joined
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19:03:48 winfried I want to see you guys eating :-D
19:04:37 winfried looks plenary right now
19:04:43 winfried but I feel muted...
19:05:33 jabberjocke thanks for the sound
19:05:49 ralphm we're really in recess, though
19:07:02 m&m Bear's beard looks even more impressive
19:07:07 m&m if that is even possible
19:07:21 Zash Pix or it never happend
19:08:58 m&m audio drop
19:09:01 m&m and it's back
19:09:31 m&m audio drop
19:09:33 Dave Cridland has left
19:10:10 ralphm I blame google
19:10:40 jabberjocke please take some photos to update http://xmpp.org/participate/the-xmpp-summit/
19:10:56 Zash I hear nothing at all!
19:11:01 Zash All Googles fault
19:11:22 m&m yea
19:11:25 m&m but not now
19:11:26 jabberjocke yupp
19:11:30 jabberjocke not now
19:11:30 darkrain has left
19:11:33 m&m now
19:11:48 m&m video froze
19:11:48 ralphm is this better?
19:11:54 winfried no
19:11:54 m&m and no audio
19:11:58 ralphm I switched audio to the laptop's
19:12:02 ralphm weird
19:12:09 m&m what browser?
19:12:41 winfried the audio sometimes seemed to clip
19:12:54 winfried but now it totally gone
19:13:50 winfried better like this
19:13:54 winfried (at least for me)
19:13:59 m&m /nod
19:14:02 ralphm cool
19:14:13 Steffen jabberjocke: I still have some pics that I need to upload
19:14:14 winfried lost audio
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19:14:33 Steffen jabberjocke: some from portland a couple of years ago and from europe last year
19:14:45 ralphm it mutes me when I type
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19:15:08 m&m ah
19:15:14 m&m keyboard detection
19:16:17 jabberjocke the wordpress wouldn't upload them
19:16:57 jabberjocke issue with directory access rights
19:21:06 ralphm hey Ashley Ward
19:21:41 Ashley Ward Hello!
19:21:52 winfried hi!
19:22:43 Ashley Ward What's the current subject? Jingle/WebRTC?
19:22:50 ralphm Lunch
19:22:55 Ashley Ward Yum!
19:24:26 darkrain has joined
19:24:55 ralphm but yeah, jingle seems to be a topic
19:28:35 m&m /sigh
19:28:55 m&m //sigh
19:29:34 jabberjocke agree
19:29:52 Ashley Ward Node should suit an xmpp server pretty well
19:29:54 jabberjocke started viewing syslogs insteas
19:30:46 m&m ralphm: when you get a chance, I would greatly appreciate you turning off that Google Effects background
19:31:29 Ashley Ward Is that your little girl, winfried?
19:31:51 winfried Yes she is my oldest one
19:32:01 winfried (10 years)
19:32:10 Ashley Ward No doubt amused by the geeks!
19:32:11 winfried have a 6years old too
19:32:19 winfried definitely
19:32:21 Ashley Ward :)
19:32:33 winfried but she is quite geeky too
19:33:11 winfried did some testing with her and she managed to freak out a chatapplication a web builder had been working on for 2 years within 5 minutes
19:33:15 winfried :-D
19:33:19 Ashley Ward Excellent - training her well. My 20 month old loves computers too.
19:33:55 winfried yeah... still have the first text she wrote on the keyboard
19:34:03 Ashley Ward Same here!
19:34:06 Steffen ha ha cool
19:34:16 Steffen printf("Hello World") ?
19:34:21 winfried LOL
19:34:45 Ashley Ward 10 PRINT "Emilia is great. ";
19:34:48 Ashley Ward 20 GOTO 10
19:34:52 Steffen ha ha
19:34:59 Steffen my first basic on c64
19:35:22 Steffen well.. prob. not the Emilia part. ;-)
19:35:27 Ashley Ward :)
19:35:32 jabberjocke I did that on a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABC_80
19:35:53 Steffen and on a spectrum.. those were the days
19:36:04 jabberjocke no colors
19:36:13 Steffen mono.. luv it
19:36:30 Ashley Ward I started on a Commodore 16.
19:36:40 winfried http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philips_P2000
19:37:04 Steffen ohh yes. that black box
19:37:32 winfried Spent lots of hours on a model III
19:38:02 Steffen yes. I've started on VIC20 and later c64
19:38:16 winfried oh, yeah the vic20
19:38:20 Steffen made demos and stuff.. when it was more barebone and fun. :-)
19:38:32 Steffen great computer
19:38:37 jabberjocke http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_TI-99/4A had sprites
19:38:59 Steffen wow
19:39:06 Steffen never tried that one
19:39:15 winfried nope
19:39:17 jabberjocke my first saved for ages
19:39:58 Steffen how about doing an XMPP server on c64.. could be fun
19:40:02 ralphm I had an Philips MSX 1 and later an MSX 2
19:40:10 winfried ah yeah MSX!
19:40:11 jabberjocke could we get ralphm to turn that background off now
19:40:16 Steffen MSX
19:40:22 Ashley Ward http://hld.c64.org/poldi/lunix/lunix.html
19:40:30 winfried thanks
19:40:33 Ashley Ward Has a TCP/IP stack and everything
19:40:45 Steffen nice
19:41:06 jabberjocke cool
19:41:25 winfried can somebody take notes on the piratepad?
19:41:29 winfried helps me a lot
19:41:40 Zash +1
19:41:52 Steffen +1
19:42:01 Steffen the sound is not that good
19:42:20 ralphm Hmm :-(
19:47:46 Simon has joined
19:47:50 m&m For the uninitiated: http://piratepad.net/L89H3Q8rao
19:48:24 bear has joined
19:48:41 Zash Re this > - authentication downgrades (SCRAM to PLAIN) what if you put the list of available SASL mechs into a TXT field? (with DNSSEC)
19:49:11 ralphm set the topic to Summit 14, Portland | http://piratepad.net/L89H3Q8rao | https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f1eca0311bb12a659a2abbc58ee581d8e37eaa3d
19:58:08 Dave Cridland has joined
19:58:36 Dave Cridland Zash, You could, but really you'll get that post-TLS anyway.
19:59:20 Dave Cridland Zash, The problem is a subverted server that forces you to PLAIN to harvest passwords. The solution is that clients shouldn't switch *back* to a weaker auth without user intervention.
20:01:04 Zash Ah
20:01:39 Dave Cridland Of course, that assumes a linear ordering of SASL mechs. :-)
20:03:04 m&m no
20:03:22 m&m that doesn't help (-:
20:03:31 Ashley Ward I can read about 50% of it
20:03:48 Dave Cridland Now it looks like the Blair Witch Project.
20:03:54 Ashley Ward :)
20:03:56 ralphm I blame stpeter's handwriting
20:03:57 m&m you need an HD camera, and we all need be connected with HD to have a shot
20:03:57 Zash Wat
20:04:10 ralphm I think this is an HD camera
20:04:20 Ashley Ward I can actually read it okay
20:04:30 Dave Cridland There are parts I can't read from here anyway.
20:04:38 winfried my laptop screen is too small
20:05:21 Ashley Ward You're there aren't you Dave?
20:05:39 Dave Cridland Right.
20:05:41 Ashley Ward Do we need to invest in some special XSF glasses for you?
20:05:59 m&m maybe that'll be his first act on the next Board
20:06:08 Ashley Ward :)
20:06:10 m&m "Get Dave Glasses" (-:
20:06:24 Ashley Ward I mean, I'm 4,900 miles away and I can just about read it.
20:06:47 winfried where did you buy your glasses...
20:07:12 ralphm XEP-0259
20:09:56 Steffen blair witch prject 2
20:10:01 Steffen project
20:12:02 bear the work on carbons is just cleanup - making the errors make sense
20:12:11 bear making the text a little bit more understandable
20:12:18 bear if there is anything else he will take requests
20:12:44 bear he saw that kim had posted something about wanting to switch over to this flag thing put together
20:12:53 bear rather not delay carbons or get another dependency
20:14:22 jabberjocke Could "attachments" be enabled on the pirate pad?
20:14:47 Steffen yes
20:14:51 Steffen see the clip icon
20:17:38 jabberjocke can't upload
20:22:50 lloyd https://github.com/ashward/buddycloud-xep
20:22:59 bear (ash) I started drafting a xep around a kind of informal xep they had for buddycloud but it still needs a lot of work to finish
20:23:17 bear (ash) it's sitting in his personal github cloud and needs a lot of work to finish
20:23:41 bear 20 min break
20:23:47 winfried I will!
20:24:23 Ashley Ward Wife's just got back from Yoga, so 20 minute break is well timed :)
20:24:24 jabberjocke yea right it's -3C outside and pitchdark
20:24:32 Lance http://gowebrtc.me/demo.html#xsfsummit
20:25:12 darkrain has left
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20:26:47 Lance http://gowebrtc.me/demo.html#tmc8n53d
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20:27:48 m&m I got the camera/mic request for both, but all I see is myself
20:29:19 m&m I think it's my local network
20:32:53 Zash erm
20:32:56 Zash what have you done?
20:33:14 m&m it could be worse
20:33:25 Zash I can't close the gowebrtc tabs
20:33:58 Zash fun
20:34:07 intosi has joined
20:34:41 fippo we're having an interesting network in here
20:35:37 m&m can you combine the devil horns and angel halo?
20:39:48 Zash ARE THERE SILLY HATS?
20:39:59 winfried HATS?
20:40:01 Zash HATS!
20:40:19 Steffen ha ha ha
20:40:25 Steffen beware of black hats
20:40:29 Steffen ;-)
20:41:04 Zash http://www.stupidgifs.com/images/full/352.gif
20:45:03 Ashley Ward Edwin's stroking his cat like a Bond villain...
20:45:51 intosi I have yet to perfect my evil laughter
20:47:51 m&m great marketing
20:48:04 intosi If only there was an open protocol that we could extend to have great conference capabilities with video and such...
20:48:11 Ashley Ward I really fancy a coca-cola now...
20:48:16 Dave Cridland And now for close-ups of Bear and PSA's backsides.
20:48:29 Ashley Ward No comment
20:48:30 m&m bear's back
20:49:50 jabberjocke anyone knows what zoom.us <http://zoom.us> is doing
20:49:50 Simon has joined
20:51:57 waqas http://waqas.im/summit/reveal.js-master/ <http://waqas.im/summit/reveal.js-master/#/>
20:52:09 bear http://waqas.im/summit/reveal.js-master/#/
20:52:28 Dave Cridland OK, everyone ready with the slides?
20:53:10 bear click
20:53:22 Dave Cridland Slide: Rich Web Applications
20:53:28 m&m for future note: slide numbers are worthwhile
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20:53:41 Dave Cridland Slide: Malicious Content
20:53:56 Dave Cridland Slide: Javascript
20:54:02 m&m mute click
20:54:04 Steffen if there are slides. is it possible to them
20:54:21 Dave Cridland Steffan: URI above.
20:54:30 Steffen ahh got it.. thanks dave
20:54:47 Dave Cridland Slide: CSS
20:54:48 Steffen I am on and off.. so I miss some stuff
20:55:26 Dave Cridland Slide: This requires rich content?
20:55:56 Dave Cridland Slide: So what's the fix?
20:55:58 Steffen why do we not make it XMPP "compatible".. and then share it by a room.. then waqas could click and we other could just view. :-)
20:56:20 Dave Cridland Slide: Templates!
20:56:44 Dave Cridland Slide: Templates: How they work
20:57:03 Dave Cridland Slide: Templates: Be aware
20:57:16 Dave Cridland Slide: (same title)
20:58:06 Dave Cridland Slide: Sandboxing
20:58:33 Dave Cridland Slide: Sandboxing : Support
20:58:50 Dave Cridland Slide: Sandboxing: Internet Explorer
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20:59:04 Dave Cridland Slide: Sandboxing
20:59:37 Dave Cridland Slide: Rich Content
20:59:53 Dave Cridland Slide: Attacking XHTML-IM
21:00:12 Dave Cridland Slide: "" : URLS
21:00:27 Dave Cridland Slide: (same title)
21:01:55 Dave Cridland Slide: Attacking XMHTML-IM: Tags and attributes
21:02:08 Dave Cridland Slide: Attacking XHTML-IM: CSS
21:03:32 Dave Cridland Slide: CSS Sanitization: Values
21:03:57 Dave Cridland Slide: XHTML-IM.JS
21:04:10 Dave Cridland Slide: Don't Trust The Data
21:04:48 Dave Cridland Slide: Lessons...
21:05:11 Dave Cridland Slide: Lessons... (again)
21:05:44 waqas has left
21:05:57 Dave Cridland Slide: And we're done!
21:06:05 m&m source for xhtml-im.js? (and license?)
21:06:17 Zash has joined
21:07:19 Dave Cridland Get that?
21:07:21 waqas has joined
21:07:24 intosi No
21:07:25 m&m I did not get the license
21:07:27 intosi Not the license lbit
21:07:33 Dave Cridland MIT
21:07:37 intosi Ah, gr8
21:07:39 stpeter MIT license
21:07:43 m&m graze
21:07:45 Dave Cridland And will be on github
21:07:53 Dave Cridland And now everyone's talking at once.
21:07:59 intosi We noticed ;)
21:08:07 m&m you need a speaking stick
21:08:14 intosi I'm about to get my cat and practice the evil laughter.
21:08:17 Ashley Ward This is actually a pretty useful presentation for web dev in general
21:08:24 intosi Indeed.
21:08:40 lloyd Yeah, lots of the issues apply outside of xmpp/bosh usage
21:08:57 Ashley Ward And the number of devs that get it wrong is incredible.
21:09:21 lloyd Yup.
21:09:49 waqas has left
21:11:09 winfried I did ;-)
21:11:16 Ashley Ward XHTML-IM security?
21:12:29 winfried BOSH/Websockets/XMPP creates another attack vector, vulnerable to this
21:13:26 Ashley Ward Might be worth renaming the presentation as there may be people who think "I don't use BOSH, that's not for me", and yet it may well be useful for them.
21:13:36 m&m precisely
21:13:36 winfried yep
21:14:29 winfried applauds
21:15:09 sergey.dobrov has joined
21:16:17 winfried Would it be an idea to do a fast roundup on XMPP on the web developments
21:17:27 Zash has left
21:18:49 stpeter Lance is chatting about stanza.io and xmpp-ftw
21:19:08 bear xmpp over websockets draft has been adopted by the working grouop
21:19:26 bear there are two open issues left
21:19:43 bear one is if there is an error and you need to send the client over to a uri
21:20:14 Zash has joined
21:20:41 bear the other issue is because in the browser we don't have a streaming parser should we have different flags to identify when the stream start/ends - lance feels that it's just fine as it is because the code that wraps it is a very thin item
21:21:30 bear the additions to the last bosh rfc have not been applied yet and that should be picked up by the next council
21:21:32 Lance http://github.com/legastero/stanza.io
21:22:07 Lance http://github.com/lloydwatkin/xmpp-ftw
21:22:59 bear xmpp-ftw doesn't require you to give it a web socket, it will accept any socket or transport connection
21:23:03 sergey.dobrov hey guys, I have a similar topic talk, btw :)
21:23:15 lloyd https://xmpp-ftw.jit.su is probably the best place to look
21:23:31 bear the work being done for HTTP2 should be able to upgrade clean if we target websocket
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21:24:54 lloyd If anyone would like "live" demos I'm sure we could do these too during the summit
21:25:03 Ashley Ward We've lost the summit!
21:25:12 bear they are trying to find his talk
21:25:32 jabberjocke work fine
21:26:07 ralphm http://jrudevels.org/Trash/presentation.pdf
21:26:15 Steffen well guys, I am off to bed. Have fun and see you later tomorrow
21:26:22 MattJ 'night Steffen
21:26:27 stpeter bye Steffen
21:26:29 intosi nn
21:26:34 Steffen night night
21:26:40 m&m ciao
21:27:16 bear many many clicks on this one
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21:27:30 Dave Cridland Slide: whoami --verbose
21:28:29 Dave Cridland Slide: Why another library?
21:29:17 Dave Cridland Slide: Problems
21:29:26 Zash has joined
21:31:52 Dave Cridland Slide: What can we do?
21:32:19 Dave Cridland Slide: Simple Example
21:32:31 Dave Cridland Slide: Possible Mapping
21:33:38 Dave Cridland Slide: Twilix Message
21:34:49 Dave Cridland Slide: (same title)
21:35:16 Dave Cridland (There's a lot of unfolding ofthe slide I'm not indicating, by the way)
21:36:33 Dave Cridland Slide: Twilix Message
21:36:40 Dave Cridland Slide: JSLiX Analogue
21:37:01 Dave Cridland Slide: Data Validation
21:38:21 Dave Cridland Slide: XML Fields
21:39:10 winfried BTW: I can't see Sergeys head... he is quite a mystery like this ;-)
21:39:31 Dave Cridland Slide: Queries
21:40:36 Dave Cridland Slide: Dispatcher
21:40:56 Dave Cridland Camera better? Doing it blind.
21:41:02 intosi Yes
21:41:19 Dave Cridland Slide: Dispatcher again. (no title though)
21:41:22 intosi A slight adjustment to the left perhaps.
21:41:35 intosi Yay!
21:41:41 winfried perfect, thanks!
21:41:47 Dave Cridland Ace.
21:45:53 Dave Cridland Slide: Dispatcher, no title.
21:46:12 Dave Cridland We should definitely do a XEP for slide coordination.
21:46:35 Dave Cridland Can you guys see the slide on-screen, by the way?
21:46:37 intosi <click xmlns="blah"/>
21:46:52 fippo dave: i think there is an old H. standard fo rthis...
21:46:53 intosi See, but not read.
21:46:59 winfried yep
21:47:14 Dave Cridland Slide: Dispatcher. "Despite the fact XMPP [...]"
21:47:21 intosi Well, with a bit of imagination, you can probably understand what it says.
21:47:32 Dave Cridland Enough to identify? As in, is what I'm doing still useful?
21:47:41 intosi It's very useful.
21:47:49 intosi It's definitely enough to identify.
21:48:12 Dave Cridland Damn, I was hoping to get out of the typing. :-)
21:48:13 intosi And if you have the PDF, you can then make out what the blurry text was supposed to be even without going back to the PDF.
21:48:42 intosi Get a better camera.
21:48:50 m&m heh
21:48:57 intosi We need Retina cameras ;)
21:48:59 m&m that was suggested earlier
21:49:13 lloyd Retina cameras == eyes?
21:49:14 Dave Cridland It's RalphM's camera. Seems quite good, but I suspect the bandwidth has lowered the quality.
21:49:15 intosi With actual retinas inside them.
21:49:24 Dave Cridland Slide: "Or in the case of handler"
21:49:26 m&m we need HD-4K
21:49:36 Ashley Ward I don't think the conference centre has retina bandwidth
21:49:38 bear yea, he is using a nice logitech external camera
21:50:34 Dave Cridland I'm using a telepresence solution powered by KLM.
21:50:44 Dave Cridland Slide: Table thing.
21:50:46 m&m hehe
21:50:51 intosi The Dutch airline?
21:51:01 Ashley Ward :)
21:51:07 Zash The table is sliding?
21:53:21 Dave Cridland Ah. Slide: "Is it used anywhere now"
21:53:28 Dave Cridland Sorry. Distracted.
21:54:23 Zash What slides now?
21:54:33 intosi same slide still
21:54:37 bear last part of "Current State" slide
21:54:40 intosi 'Is it used anywhere now?'
21:55:08 intosi SVP Implementation exmpl
21:55:15 Dave Cridland Slide: "Comparing Examples", "Software Bersion Protocol Implementation example"
21:55:21 Dave Cridland Erm. "Version".
21:55:23 Zash Ah, still Sergey
21:56:05 Dave Cridland Slide: (same title) "Then we'll need a method"
21:56:57 Dave Cridland Slide: "Now let's define the method to query" ...
21:57:57 Dave Cridland Slide: "as we can see the method"...
21:58:30 Dave Cridland Slide: "Finally we should define handlers"
21:59:27 Dave Cridland Slide: Counter-example PyXMPP2
22:00:31 Dave Cridland Slides are going thing and fast, sorry.
22:01:05 Dave Cridland JSLiX vs XMPP-FTW currently.
22:02:03 Dave Cridland has left
22:03:15 Dave Cridland has joined
22:03:32 Dave Cridland jTalk crashed, sorry
22:03:52 Dave Cridland Now on "Just an idea", from JSON-XMPP section
22:03:52 intosi what slide are we on?
22:04:12 Dave Cridland And we're done.
22:05:24 sergey.dobrov http://jrudevels.org/Trash/presentation.pdf
22:06:18 m&m I'm going to drop for the day, try to catch all of you tomorrow
22:06:46 winfried whats next? I couldn't follow it...
22:06:54 lloyd we're discussing
22:07:10 lloyd Justin is suggesting talking about service delegation
22:07:28 lloyd Quick break
22:07:36 winfried musical break
22:07:49 m&m has left
22:10:26 Zash sleep break
22:10:29 Zash has left
22:15:26 intosi Remind me not to let Ralph steer the rocket ship that will evacuate us from earth when we have to leave.
22:18:04 ralphm http://play.brokt.com/~fritzy/lander/
22:21:53 intosi Yes…. Much better.
22:43:47 intosi Can you turn the camera around,plz?
22:44:28 intosi ta
22:44:42 intosi grrr
22:44:48 ralphm hi Wilson
22:44:53 intosi :D
22:46:21 Dave Cridland In all this, I have this mental picture of Matthew Wild - Secret Agent - moving through the mean streets in disguise.
22:47:37 Ash has joined
22:47:44 Ashley Ward has left
22:48:51 ralphm Yesterday, he was lost in the woods
22:50:53 sergey.dobrov I have met him near the zoo yesterday, maybe he was doing some offering sacrifices?
22:55:10 intosi I can't believe it's not XMPP!
22:55:37 winfried XMPWHAPP!
22:58:45 Dave Cridland I'm thinking that jTalk is pretty battery intensive - I'm actually out of battery.
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23:00:56 sergey.dobrov it also was pretty buggy when I was using it so I've returned to Xabber
23:00:56 Tobias has joined
23:01:53 Tobias right..jtalk crashes on anything MUC related
23:01:56 ralphm for some reason I get random disconnects with Xabber
23:02:02 ralphm because of invalid XML
23:02:11 ralphm still not sure where from
23:02:28 sergey.dobrov hm, I remember the times when clients were disconnecting because of XML namespace prefixes
23:02:36 intosi Weird. Invalid XML, or invalid UTF-8?
23:02:42 ralphm not sure
23:02:47 ralphm still haven't found it
23:03:05 sergey.dobrov but xabber works pretty fine for me except of lacking functionality
23:05:18 Tobias has left
23:11:55 Ash +1
23:18:18 bear exciting stuff - truly
23:18:37 intosi Give Ralph some hats.
23:18:58 bear :)
23:30:48 intosi Interesting as the discussion is (no sarcasm intended), I'm afraid I have to leave for bed soon. Keeping my eyes open is becoming harder ;)
23:31:01 bear have a good sleep
23:31:07 intosi Ta.
23:31:21 winfried good night!
23:33:02 Lance XMPP Standards Foundation and XMPP Services Foundation :p
23:35:38 bear :P
23:40:42 winfried +1
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23:52:06 Simon https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r-zJqpuHYsWsqtnmrWQo_pXXPRcK-mbiazG-GwuBNj4/edit?usp=sharing
23:52:19 Simon current page structure
23:58:05 bear thanks