were there any actions taken following the push discussion?
Kev
Not yet.
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Tobias
while you're together in a room you could also gather opinions on XMPP Compliance Suite 201x
Kev
Noted, thank you.
hildjj
awclinford: bear took good notes
hildjj
we need to assign an action item to write a push XEP
Kev
hildjj: I put that on the board.
Lance
I'll take that one on hildjj. Already have been working on one
hildjj
Lance: awesome.
Zash
Yay Lance
hildjj
I'll sign up to review it, and get some folks on the Cisco Jabber team to look at it.
winfried
Lance rocks!
awclinford
i’ll keep my eyes peeled for it Lance. we’ll put an implementation together and feedback to the group
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Ge0rG
is it still possible to extend the agenda? a) client-to-client (end-to-end) encryption of realtime media and file transfers; b) a normative/informative XEP to specify client priority according to user state and presence, to support message routing with multiple online resources
paulwitty
I think we all pretty much agreed on DTLS-SRTP for encryption within Jingle sessions yesterday
paulwitty
with some debate about making it required
Zash
What about file transfers over TCP / Proxy65
paulwitty
favoured using the WebRTC style data channel of SCTP over DTLS
paulwitty: sorry, wasn't able to attend yesterday. DTLS-SRTP solves UDP-based streaming. what about TCP connections?
paulwitty
no TCP connections
paulwitty
use Jingle to set up file transfers, use SCTP to give reliability over the UDP
paulwitty
and maybe deprecate all other forms of file transfer
Ge0rG
what about sharing files with a MUC?
Ge0rG
paulwitty: we are talking about SCTP, the transport-layer protocol which nobody yet implements?
paulwitty
doing that in user space, yes
paulwitty
because it looks like that's the direction WebRTC is going
Ge0rG
maybe WebRTC is not quite the right approach for us. it's not like all XMPP client developers have the same resources available to them like Mozilla or Google....
paulwitty
is there anything which will work well through all network topologies, is secure, and is easy to implement?
winfried
paulwitty: that looks like the holy grail to me...
Ge0rG
HTTP upload of encrypted files to a data storage server maybe
Zash
THE CLOUD!!!
hildjj
WebDAV-like things + e2e, for some value of "secure" that doesn't include server-side virus checking
Ge0rG
paulwitty: implementing a transport-layer protocol on top of an application-layer encryption protocol on top of UDP just looks like crazyness to me. I wouldn't be surprised if JSON is used in the negotiation process
Zash
!summon dwd
Zash
Think of the layers!
hildjj
Ge0rG: the right place to discuss that is at the rtcweb wg at the IETF
paulwitty
the argument is that people who have done Jingle will at least have done the ICE and DTLS layers
Based on helping Simon with building the buddycloud XEP I've thrown this together, https://github.com/lloydwatkin/xep-builder , as a helper for building/writing XEPs. Would people find it useful? If not I'll consign it to the dustbin of code.
bear
apologies if my take on compliance suite and/or testing irked anyone
Simonnever noticed irk
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bear
I am approaching the end of my energy so I tend to be grumpy or combative
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Philip Roberts
@bear putting in a vote for "you're fine, relax" :)
i've learned two things today that I should have already have known - cool
Tobias
Dave Cridland, ahh..yeah...full XPath might be a bit overkill...and introduce unneeded attack surfaces
Zash
wait, XPath?!
Dave Cridland
Or XQuery, or whatever was there.
Dave Cridland
Mainly because I don't want to have to implement that.
Zash
Doesn't look like it does more than mention XPath
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bear
can someone give me a summary of what was just decided regarding file transfer
bear
so I can add it to the meeting notes
Kev
Simon will write up what BC does. We will probably https host files. We might upload with https or with the sctp-dtls stuff that we will be using for 1:1FT.
Simon
summary: I'll write up a quick how the buddycloud-media server works and share it. If it's useful, I'm happy to extend and do more work.
bear
thanks!
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winfried
at the portland summit there was a nice presentation on xmpp on the web security does anybody still have a link to those slides...
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MattJ
winfried, that was waqas - I'll ask him
bear
+32 48 351 2062 <-- my belgium phone #
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Ash
Zash: Yeah - after actually reading the sift spec, it actually looks fairly close to what I thought was being proposed so I am now slightly confused
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Ge0rG
Dave Cridland: I've got nebuk, who wrote the MUC code, into the yaxim MUC. feel free to come back for discussing further merge attempts
winfried
Mattj thank you, am considering to something with XMPP on the web security on the Real Time Lounge, but his presentation should be included in that!
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Ge0rG
so, what's next for today?
MattJ
Ge0rG, people will probably head back to the hotel to drop their stuff there, and then collect in the lobby to discuss
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Ge0rG
Dave looks like he's missing XEP-0198 :>
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MattJ
Ge0rG, so you're at the hotel?
Ge0rG
MattJ: correct. will come to the lobby in 15min
MattJ
Ge0rG, ok - dinner plans are forming
Zash
Someone, have a Hoegaarden!
paulwitty
is it happy hour again?
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MattJ
paulwitty, in 20min
Ge0rG
MattJ: I'm open for anything non-vegetarian
MattJ
Ge0rG, you're not vegetarian by chance? :)
MattJ
:D
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Ge0rG
MattJ: I'm antivegetarian by intention
MattJ
Then it sounds like you'll want to squeeze into the group going to "the rib place"
Zash
The Meating?
Ge0rG
MattJ: +1
Zash
Ge0rG: Join The Meating, you won't regret it.
paulwitty
I'm strangely tempted by the vegetarian place after the ribs yesterday
MattJ
I'm probably not going to be in that group, but never mind
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Zash
MattJ: But, bacon the size of your head!
Ge0rG
MattJ: if you convince Lance to follow you, I'm in for an antivegetarianism exception
MattJ
No, we're just discussing
Ge0rG
except if there are baked otters
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MattJ
Apparently he has never been to "The Meating" tradition, so he'll go there tonight
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Ge0rG
I have no idea about this "meating" thing. Is that what bear told about earlier, referencing a loud crowd?
MattJ
Yes
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MattJ
It's a relatively small place, and XMPP folk dominate it when they go
Ge0rG
I'm actually more into some calm place... which is probably a challenge on friday night in a large metropole
MattJ
Before FOSDEM especially
Ge0rG
but then... XMPP folks
MattJ
It's the FOSDEM beer night
Zash
Ge0rG: FWIW, it's pretty baren other weekends.
zeank
Ge0rG: we're going for a vegetarian place, wanna join?
MattJ
Florob is undecided
Zash
Most EU-people go home over the weekends, so at least near all the EU buildings it's usually pretty empty
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Ge0rG
my preferences in order of importance: 1. company, 2. meat, 3. calm place
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MattJ
The vegetarian one will probably hit both 2 & 3
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zeank
meat at a vegetarian place? I'd doubt it.
zeank
but calm, why not?
Kev
I have yet to meat this trip, so if there's the option of going there with some group, it's appealing to me.
Kev
zeank: Matt has interesting definitions of 'vegetarian'.
zeank
maybe, yeah
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Kev
Are there meat plans tonight that I can potentially crash?
Ge0rG
ok ok, I'm coming down to the lobby now
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MattJ
Kev, I overheard 5 minutes ago "Kev will be going to the rib place"
Kev
Ahhar.
Kev
You folks are in the bar? I'll head down :)
MattJ
Yep
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Kev
I am back, ribless but full. If anyone wants to share their FOSDEM plans at some point before tomorrow, yay :)
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Kev
Anyone with breakfast plans for tomorrow?
paulwitty
Do we have breakfast at the hotel tomorrow included?
waqas
Yes, but not in Belgium :)
Kev
paulwitty: As far as I know!
paulwitty
the email from Aloft was marginally ambigious
Kev
I didn't read it.
paulwitty
January 29, 2014 - January 30, 2014
Rate Plan: Group Business XMPP
BUFFET BREAKFAST Per Person/per Night
paulwitty
With no mention of other nights
Kev
I see what you mean.
Kev
When we checked in, they just said breakfast was included - not that it was included some nights.
Kev
So I assume it's fine.
paulwitty
I'm certainly going to try for it
Kev
I'm tempted to unset my alarm and see what happens.
Kev
And make FOSDEM plans when I get up, in the absence of knowing what others' plans are.
Kev
GN
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jabberjocke
I would like to go early to setup lounge
jabberjocke
Is there any plans on large cab from hotel?
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jabberjocke
I'm planning to book a large cab from hotel to fosdem at 09 is that to early? would there be anybody in the lounge area by 9.30?
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Simon
Jabberjocke. I was planning on leaving about 9:45
Simon
xnyhps: sorry to have missed you at Summit. Would have been nice to meet up.