GuusNew ETA is 10:00, but then I still need to travel from Brussel North station to Cisco
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vanitasvitaeGuus: same here. My train from cologne to brussels is 30 mins late
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KevLooking at the timings for the Brussels trains this morning, I think we'd be best off leaving the Thon at about 08:30, grabbing the metro to Centraal, and going from there to Diegem on the 09:04, which'd get us to the office at about 09:30. Other options get us to the office very close to 10:00, and don't give us scope for the train delays and cancellations we've seen in previous years.
TobiasSounds reasonable
KevThe 09:31 from Schuman sounds lovely, but if that's cancelled we're stuck for another hour and don't get to Cisco until 11:00.
KevRight. Heading down for breakfast :)
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GuusOoh, two of my trains got cancelled. This is going to be interesting.
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vanitasvitaeI'm on the road again (or on the rails to be more precise)
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michalwskiKev i'm going with you. Where do we meet at the hotel?
michalwskiDid my message was really copied 4 times or is my app only?
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GuusI got two distinct messages from you in this MUC, michalwski
VaulorSame here, michalwski
GuusI'm going to try and get off the train in Mechelen, and grab a cab to Cisco. Might just make it in time, if traffic isn't to bad.
GuusAssuming that traffic is not bad in Brussels is not unlike assuming snowfall in hell, but hey, I'm an optimist.
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jonaswgood morning dear summiteers
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GuusHello dear jonasw
jonaswso, I don’t know how these things usually work, but it’d be great to have agendums announced here, if there is such a thing like an agenda
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jonaswso, I don’t know how these things usually work, but it’d be great to have agenda announced here, if there is such a thing like an agenda
jonasweven if A/V is available, I won’t be able to pay attention the whole day, but XMPP 2.0 would be very interesting for me and I’d like to "tune in"
Guusjonasw: well create the agenda during the first few minutes of the meeting
jonaswswete :)
jonaswcool :)
GuusI'll share the a/v details on the wiki now
GuusIf I can, from mobile... Give me a sec
jonaswshare them here and I’ll put them on the wiki?
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GuusJoin the meeting from https://acecloud.webex.com
Thursday, February 1, 2018
8:45 am | 10 hrs
Meeting number (access code): 202 512 989
Meeting password: jsf2S8P9
Friday, February 2, 2018
8:45 am | 10 hrs
Meeting number (access code): 208 941 793
Meeting password: M8nR97ws
jonaswshall I put that on the wiki?
GuusYes please
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GuusI will send the host key to Kev in private. Ralph should also have it.
alameyoI might go back to piano at he airport unless you are closer to the exit
HolgerI'm right at the piano.
alameyoso wait 2-3 minutes for me
HolgerWill do! 👍
vanitasvitaeYou have to negotiate a secret symbol
alameyoHolger: security doesn't allow me to go back to piano
alameyogo up the stairs and I am behind security gate
alameyoin way to exit
HolgerAh ok, I'm on the way.
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vanitasvitaeWas it the first building or the second?
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Ge0rGSo I'm in the WebEx now. What's the topic? :>
ralphmdisco items caching
Ge0rGAwesome. We need that.
Ge0rGThe video just degraded into a surrealistic aquarel painting.
ralphmThe initial idea is to put the hash of the item list into a XEP-0004 form that becomes part of the disco info response that can be cached like normal with CAPS
dwdMerkle-Caps.
dwdWhich is much of the discussion at the moment - how deep is the Merkle-Caps-tree.
goffiTobias: no, but nobody gave me this link I think
Tobiasplease try it then :)
mathieuiright, I didn’t read enough
goffiTobias: working, thanks
Tobiasyou're welcome
goffiI have video but not sound, checking if it's coming from my side
goffiOK it's good now
mathieuigoffi, we hear you
Tobiascould you silence you're mic
mathieuithanks
goffisorry :)
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mathieuiGe0rG, we lost you
jonaswwaves
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vanitasvitaewaves back
intosi"The list up there" is:
intosi* Presence Sorting / per resource
intosi* Message routing
intosi* Stable IDs
intosi* Read state
intosi* History / Inbox
intosi* Metadata
intosi* Rooms
intosi* Impromptu
intosi* Notifications
intosi* Fast Connections
intosi* BIND2
intosi* SASL2
intosi* Disco caching
intosi* Non IM
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intosi* Low prio
Ge0rGintosi: you urgently need to update to a multi-line capable client :P
intosiIt can do multi-line
intosiI just couldn't be bothered
Ge0rGre "Carbons needs to go away": we still need it as a transport to deliver sent-copies of outgoing messages to our other client
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jonaswwho’s speaking by the way? I guess it’s Kev.
intosiIt's Kev.
ZashSounds like
intosiGuus speaking now.
jonaswdoes that video-zooms-in-on-some-speaker thing happen automatically :-O
ZashIs there video?
intosiIt does.
Ge0rGjonasw: it's supposed to.
intosiThere are a bunch of cameras in this room, and a lot of Dark Magic™ happens.
jonaswI bet
Ge0rGand this is why I'm seeing the same position for an hour now.
ZashHm, works in Chromium but not Firefox :|
jonaswyeah, I guessed that firefox will be icky so I went with chromium right away
Ge0rGThe password is "XMPP Summit"
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jonaswand then there was silence
Zash*crickets*
Zash/nick tumbleweed
jonaswsomeone is stealing a chair!
Ge0rGHopefully not the meeting chair.
jonaswhah
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Ge0rGI wondered about 100% CPU load, but then realized it's Chromium for the WebEx
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goffisame here, while on Firefox it was fine
goffinot sure if video worth it
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goffiwell maybe not, Firefox is high too when switching back to it, weird it was fine before
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goffican somebody ping this room when it's starting again ? I've stopped webex for now
jonasw+1 ^
winfried+1
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ZashPeople seem to be falling back in
jonaswdo we maybe wanna make a soundcheck for the remote people? I have no idea if my audio is okay-ish configured
ZashGe0rG was LOUD compared to the people in the room
jonaswyeah
goffithanks Zash
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jcVaulor: hey, I told him ☺️
goffiis this webex thing using some kind of XMPP ?
Ge0rGZash: sorry, I started out silent and tuned my microphone to 11
jonaswwhat’s the topic?
jonaswI lack context
MattJNothing formal - half of everyone is still at lunch
jonaswsounds like something technical DNSy
MattJjabber.org has had DNS issues for a while
jonaswwhile we’re at it, can we somehow increase volume of the microphone in that room?
MattJWhen ralphm gets back, perhaps
jonaswahk. I don’t know faces. I saw sams badge and I recognize guus, I guess who’s holger, but otherwise I’ve got no idea :)
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goffiI have a video in small on the right, and the passed presentation in big in the center. Is there any way to move video to main video ? I don't seen anything in UI to do that.
jonaswgoffi, the separator between them can be dragged
goffioh right thanks, could hardly see it
Zashoooooooh, I wondered about that as well
jonaswyah
jonaswI also only found that by accident
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MattJIs someone note-taking?
Tobiasyes, jc
jonaswgo jc!
MattJThanks jc!
dwdNo, don't go! Keep taking notes!
jonaswwell
Holger> I guess who’s holger
Was still at lunch when you wrote that though 🙂
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jcYou're welcome, I'll upload once I have internet in the laptop
Zashwho was phone^W Holger
jonaswHolger, true, but I think I recognized you when you came in late
jonaswI didn’t mean to say that you were there when I wrote that
dwdPretty exciting. Everyone's getting WiFi.
goffiis is a surprise test ?
goffiis it*
goffiyou have 2 hours
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vanitasvitaeThey block XMPP!!!!
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ZashTypical corporate firewall?
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jonaswwhat?
jonaswseriously?
jonaswat Cisco?
vanitasvitaeI cant connect to any of my servers
Holgerjonasw: Right, "came in late" sounds like me.
vanitasvitaeInternet works fine though
debacleHolger, like in the Berlin XMPP meetup? :~)
mathieuiGe0rG, jonasw, goffi, wegre starting
debacleBut I'm in the same group then
dwdl'll stick with 4G. We're starting again, by the way.
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mathieuivanitasvitae, also they don’t block XMPP
jonaswmathieui, thanks, I’m already in
vanitasvitaeI remember last year I worked around it by connecting through a vpn
goffimathieui: thx
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mathieuiit’s fine on 443 :p
jonaswwinfried
Tobiaswe're starting again
vanitasvitaeAh that might be
winfriedyes?
jonaswwinfried, meeting’s resuming
winfried(y)
Holgerdebacle: Same procedure as everywhere.
goffijonasw: we can see you, no sure if this is intended
jonaswgoffi, it is
goffiOK :)
jonaswa fancy green light is telling me
goffiit's hard to get everything, what's the topic ?
jonaswgoffi, we’re still at XMPP 2.0, but I’m not sure what the PEP thing is about
jonaswcan someone from the room please clarify?
MattJBefore lunch we discussed per-user presence, instead of what we currently have: per-device
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ZashStatus stuff in PEP instead of in presence
dwd<status/> and <show/> moving from presence to PEP.
jonaswah
MattJThis would be an additional status, in PEP
jonaswnow things make sense
MattJSamWhited offered to write a XEP
dwdMattJ, Replacement, not additional.
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MattJIndeed
jcbrandI'll continue with the notes here: https://beta.etherpad.org/p/XMPP_Summit_2018_Day_1
goffijcbrand: neat
ZashVERY LOUD YES
jonaswsorry
jonaswwas it better then?
jonaswotherwise I’ll tune it down even more. in the preview it was like 2 out of 10 bars, so I assumed it was too silent, Zash
ZashI've vol'd up to hear the room
jonaswah right
jonaswI forgot that you aren’t there
jonaswyah, the room is really quiet
ZashI think it's the room that is low, you and Ge0rG are probably normal
jonaswGe0rG, ping
mathieui(no ipv6 at cisco :x)
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jonaswwhat’s the etiquette for enqueing a remark to the discussion? I’m not sure if people in the room are giving hand signs.
Ge0rGjonasw: back
jonaswGe0rG, meeting resumed
jonaswtopic is impromptu mucs
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Ge0rGI see backs
jonaswcheers, Zash
dwdjonasw, W're waving hands about. I suggest you shout, and/or say here you've a comment.
dwdIf you say here, we'll try and notice and pass on your hand waving.
jonaswheh
winfriedprivacy by default, sharing optional
Ge0rGHaving an "impromptu MUC group creation" was on my 45 agenda for a while, but first I wanted to implement it
jonaswwaves hand
jonasw(cc @ dwd maybe)
Ge0rGjonasw: I can't see you waving :P
dwdMuch discussion about hand waving. You're covered.
Ge0rGZash: now I understand what you meant by *LOUD*
jonaswbut then he said "on a single jid" and it seemed more realistic
ZashUntil the heat death of the universe then
MattJObligatory mention of vcard-temp
Ge0rGDid the conf video collapse for everyone or just for me?
MattJRalph is "fixing" it
jonaswwhile you’re messing with things
jonaswcould you make it louder?
jonaswit’s really quiet for us remotelers
jonaswwhich is awful when somebody non-remote says somtehing
dwdralphm: ^^
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jcbrandI'm sorry but the etherpad is doing weird stuff, I don't trust it with taking notes...
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jcbrandI'll make the notes locally for now and then upload them later
jonaswseems good
jonaswI didn’t even konw that there was a pad :)
Zashjonasw: that is the right thing to do
Zashdon't trust etherpads
Zashthey eat your data
dwdIt's how they survive in the wild.
jonaswhand-wavy note from the floor: why would IoT even worry about the Archive? it could just disable archive and not worry about getting pubsub archived?
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ZashSIMS!
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Ge0rG"Resource Locking"
jcbrandThe notes are here now, I'll update them from time to time: https://xmppsummit2018.opkode.com/2018-Summit%20Day%20one.html
jonasw404
Ge0rGjonasw: NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID
jonaswit redirects to opkode.com
Ge0rGthen 404s.
jonaswyeah
jonaswjcbrand, I got redirected here: https://opkode.com/2018-Summit%20Day%20one.html
jonaswdwd, handwave
Ge0rGAnd then somebody will attempt resource locking to bare-JID, breaking even more
MattJGe0rG, hmm?
Ge0rGMattJ: when rewriting `from` from full to bare
goffijcbrand: s/Moving/Movim/
MattJI don't understand "resource locking to bare-JID"
Tobiasyeah...these words in that sequence don't make much sense imo
TobiasGe0rG, can you rephrase that?
Ge0rGmaybe I misunderstood Kev's proposal as rewriting the *from* JID
Ge0rGso a client would resource-lock to bare JID after receiving a message from a bare JID
dwdjonasw: I was doing something else when you did the handwave, and instead it came up on my watch, which was really quite impressive.
Ge0rGGajim used so send normal-to-full, a looong time ago
Ge0rGGajim used to send normal-to-full, a looong time ago
Ge0rGyaxim never implemented resource locking
jonaswsame for aioxmpp. when I was about to do it, people were already ranting against it and I was like "eh, so why bother"
jonaswI’m gonna get me some tea, my throat hurts, see you later
mathieuijonasw, you’re lucky, we got it in poezio before the complaints
Ge0rGmathieui: if only you had asked me :P
Link MauveI removed it just recently.
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Ge0rGLink Mauve: I was positively surprised
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jonaswok, there’s something about crypto now, I missed a context switch, where are we at?
mathieuijonasw, entropy in message IDs
jonaswah
Link Mauvejonasw, generating random ids.
jonaswyah
Zash> With entropy in message ids, you don't need encryption
Ge0rGthe automatic camera is awesome.
jonaswjcbrand, if you make your screen a bit brighter and font larger, we don’t need an etherpad :-)
jonaswit’s weird too, Ge0rG
ZashIs that Edvins or Daves back of the head we got earlier?
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jcbrandstanza-ids
jcbrandjonasw: better?
Ge0rGI just realized that we *can* see Kev - mirrored in the glass door
jonaswjcbrand, I was mostly kidding, but your link still 404s :(
dwdOnscreen is Edwin's head.
Ge0rGA client could be OOM killed at any time, so it needs to persist the non-persistent message IDs.
SamWhitedI'm storing Skype messages in my archive.
Ge0rGdwd: I'll involve the data privacy officer.
dwdGe0rG, We haven't reached GDPR doomsday yet. I'm safe.
jonaswGe0rG, take care, you with your IP logging ;-)
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jonaswre mentions I’d like to throw in the idea I had some time ago. the idea was essentially to allow clients/users to publish a list of terms (in PEP or in presence or w/e) on which they highlight
jonaswthat would probably tie in well with "detecting mentions in archive server-side"
Ge0rGjonasw: also for push push-through
Ge0rGjonasw: minus E2EE
Ge0rGlet's abolish E2EE
ZashE2EE, nice things. pick one.
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SaltyBonesjonasw: I think that is exactly what Kev proposed for push/CSI/battery safe/notifications
jonaswah maybe, I might’ve missed that
Ge0rGjcbrand: have you written down everything from my presentation slides? :>
ZashDid someone say something that could boil down to having mod_firewall rules for what to carbon, what to archive etc?
jcbrandGeorg: I was still feeling "fleissig"
jcbrandthat was before lunch
jonaswZash, "if xmpp2 && fulljid, no archive, no carbon. if xmpp2 && barejid, archive and carbon"?
Ge0rGjcbrand: ah, IC. It'd be nice to have some colorcoding of what was said vs. what was on the slides
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Ge0rGI'm out of the WebEx, need to do some piled up work. ping me when interesting things are happening again :)
jonaswdamn, I was about to do the same thing :)
SouL30 minutes break, just if you couldn't hear
jonaswoh
jonaswI assumed some kind of break already, but wasn’t sure how long
Ge0rGSouL: I was getting coffee
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SouLI'm the guy with purple squares
SouLHelloo :D
jonaswI’m disconnected
SouLI will write when we are back again
ZashSquares?
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jcbrandGe0rG I'm not sure how to add color coding, will check
SouLZash, shirt, next to SamWhited x)
Ge0rGjcbrand: or replace the slide content with a link to the PDF (I also have ODP) and the page number
jcbrandBTW, the notes are in wiki syntax (because I use vimwiki), so I can later put them on the XSF wiki
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Zashwhich wiki syntax is that?
intosiGood man.
jonaswmediawiki
jcbrandhttps://github.com/vimwiki/vimwiki
jcbrandyes, mediawiki AFAIK (for vimwiki)
jonaswit’s only similar to mediawiki
jonaswmediawiki uses '''x''' for bold, not *x*, and I think nested lists work entirely different (** instead of indent + *)
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jcbrandah
jcbrandcan be fixed with vim regex
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Ge0rGGood man.
dwdWe are going to start again.
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jonaswdwd, wave
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Ge0rGWhat's the agenda?
MattJKev's scribbled list on the whiteboard, not sure if anyone can read it but him
ZashIs there a camera pointed at the whiteboard?
MattJCurrent topic is "inbox"
intosiMattJ: jc's transcription should have them as well.
Ge0rGI haven't seen Kev at all yet, except briefly as a mirroring in the glass door
Ge0rGwhat's "inbox"?
intosiI also posted the list in this room this morning.
goffiI've catched late, what's this inbox thing ?
goffisame as activityPub ?
jonaswgoffi, Ge0rG the list of currently open conversations
MattJA server-side shared list of open chats
jonaswno
jonaswyah
Ge0rGdoes it make sense to have?
Ge0rGprobably yes
jonaswI think so
MattJIf you have lots of contacts (imagine you're part of an organisation with thousands of members) you want to keep track of open conversations
jonaswit’s a tricky issue I’ve been pondering in JC for a while
goffiwould be neat yes
jonaswhaving clients collaborate on that would be cool
SouLGe0rG, I'm guessing is not something that would be used in Yaxim?
jonaswbut I’m not sure if it should affect MAM queries
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Ge0rGSouL: why not?
Ge0rGSouL: I'd like to have a "recent conversations" view, but it needs significant refactoring
ZashProsody?
SouLGe0rG, ah ok, I was talking about how is it now. Nothing to say then.
MattJProsody keeps being blamed for "why not just use PEP?"
MattJ^ Zash
goffiit's really hard to understand Daniel, he's far from mic
ZashSomeone wanna help with finnishing the node config persistence bits?
jonaswI can’t into lua :(
MattJI can't out of Lua :(
goffiI'm still advocating for external PEP/Pubsub component, there are still lot to do on Pubsub and servers will not catch before years.
daniel> Someone wanna help with finnishing the node config persistence bits?
Maybe
danielIf there is a todo list. Or unfinished but pushed code
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jonasware we still talking about the "inbox" pubsub node?
danieljonasw: yes
jonaswuh
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jonaswremoving read conversatinos from that sounds bad
jonaswjust because a conversation is read I wouldn’t want it to disappear from the list
jonaswit should take user interaction to be removed
MattJ+1
jonaswor did I misunderstand that, daniel?
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Ge0rGjonasw: if I remove a conversation on Conversations, do I want it to vanish from poezio, too?
MattJYes
jonaswGe0rG, I *think* there’s a point in that, but I’m also not sure if I’d always want that
jonaswbecause e.g. I don’t want conversations to sync #dovecot on freenode on each connect
Zashsend that chat state that says you ended the convo?
jonaswbut I still want it on all non-mobile clients.
jonaswZash, smart
SouLCould we have a "Close from here" and "Close from everywhere"?
Zashjonasw: until we start doing chat states over presence, and there's no carbons anymore
jonaswSouL, I don’t like that UX
jonasw(for conversations at least)
jonaswZash, well, the server would obviously update the pubsub node
Zashah, sure, that would work
Ge0rGSouL: that's a horrible hack.
ZashI'd like to remind y'all that if you make MAM impossible to implement on append-only data structures, I will cry
MattJMake sure your webcam is turned on
Ge0rGMattJ: now you made me want to see that too
jonaswZash, it is possibel, like you can implement anything append-only, but it might become very inefficient to access
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ZashSomething Smart™
jonaswsome video breakage here, is it just me?
Ge0rGjonasw: here too
jonaswah fixed
Zashand here
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jonaswdaniel, +1
Ge0rGthe good shit, the real shit? Audio is a little bit blocky
Zashdaniel: It's started in the sense that Link Mauve added content persistence. Configuration persistence isn't there, apart from whether to enable persistence, which is something of a hack atm.
ZashSomething like what?
SamWhitedZash: Slack, HipChat, etc.
ZashAh, then me neither
goffinotifications would be neat to keep server side too. For now we have to keep track of messages
ZashIs this the thing were mod_firewall fits in? :)
danielNote that I personally care more about configurability than persistence
MattJThe current discussion is about notification preferences being stored server-side, not actual server-side notifications
danielI don't restart my server 😀
intosiIn buggy CPU world, cloud hoster restarts your server for you.
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jonaswfirst time I’m seeing kev!
mathieuiralphm found the camea manual controls, I think
mathieuiralphm found the camera manual controls, I think
Ge0rGjonasw: I was just thinking that
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jonaswnot to mention that SCRAM takes some power too
jonaswdepending on the number of iterations
Zashjonasw: cacheable tho
jonaswSCRAM actually took most of the time for establishing a connection on my MIPS-based router back then
jonaswZash, only partially, isn’t it?
Zashjonasw: If the salt is fixed, which it should be, then you can cache the SaltedPassword
Zashthen it's just some XOR and HMAC
jonaswI’d like to throw in that these are possibly details which should be up to implementation experimentation?
jonaswwho’s the guy next to dave with the erlang sticker?
ZashI doubt fast reconnect can become as cheap as just sending <{csi}active> on an existing TLS connection
jonaswZash, I tend to agree
ZashUnavailable presence instead of csi-inactive?
jonaswdwd, I’d like to throw in: you might want to discover the <identity/> of a client
Ge0rGI really love Holger's hack of keeping an SM detached session as long as push is registered.
jcbrandjonasw: Nicolas Vérité
jonaswand I’d also like to throw in that servers are allowed to intercept dicso#info and answer on your behalf if you do caps
ZashHow far away is multisomething-tcp?
mathieuijonasw, nyco
Ge0rGZash: very far away
Zashin theory
Ge0rGIf I had to bet on MIX vs multi-path TCP, I'd put my money on Duke Nukem Forever.
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ZashGe0rG: That joke doesn't work anymore
Ge0rGZash: I feel old now.
ZashI for would would put my money on GNU Hurd 1.0
ZashI for one would would put my money on GNU Hurd 1.0
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jonaswwho’s the one in purple next to dave?
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Tobiashttps://wiki.openssl.org/index.php/Simple_TLS_Server "You should avoid 0-RTT if possible. In fact, an organization's data security policy may not allow it for some higher data sensitivity levels. "
jonaswah, hantu.sc
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intosiThe entire section on that page reads as a "Here be dragons" regarding 0-RTT
SouL.w cop
SouLIgnore that message, sorry.
intosiNo space left on device
ZashSomeone print that on a t-shirt and give to SouL
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vanitasvitaeHah, i can access xmpp via tor when in the cisco wifi.
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goffiI could not follow all the discussion. About XMPP 2.0 would it be a RFCs or XEPs ?
goffiRFCs seems more logical, but it will take years
ZashWhat is XMPP 2.0?
Ge0rGgoffi: AFAIU it was decided not to put into the IETF process
goffiZash: the stuff which was discussed for a good part of the day, change in the heart of the protocol to fix broken stuff, cf. https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XMPP_2.0
goffiGe0rG: OK, but that seems weird to have major changes without doing RFCs
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Ge0rGgoffi: the changes might not be as major as anticipated
goffiZash: I've missed good part of the discussions, but it was about stanza ids, removing resource locking, putting stuff from presence to PEP
goffiGe0rG: OK, I'll guess it will be discussed on the mailing list anyway, so I'll see there.
Ge0rGfrom message to presence, from presence to PEP
Ge0rGfrom PEP to message.
Zashgoffi: That was actually meant as a joke.
ZashBut what does it mean or something.
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SaltyBonesI have an idea on how to build stable IDs. Who could I give that to for review/shredding? :)
Ge0rGSaltyBones: write a proto-XEP, or ask tomorrow
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ZashIs it (stream id, message counter) ?
ZashWait, stable ids for what?
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SaltyBonesZash: are you volunteering to discuss it? ;)
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jonaswI still don’t quite understand what’s wrong with putting 256 bits entropy into a random ID and be done with it.
jonaswon conflict re-roll
jonaswgenerate IDs on the server
jonaswwhat’s the problem?
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ZashWhich IDs is this about?
SamWhitedI think we were talking about the client earlier; you can't trust the client to generate IDs correctly as ralph pointed out. The server may be a different story.
ZashBut the client wants to know the ID the server picked, and be able to associate it with whatever internal ID it might have
jonaswreturn the ID in <{sm}a/>
jonasw:>
jonasw(the IDs)
jonasw(in a message/@id -> stanza-id mapping)
ZashI thought the idea was to extend carbons to reflect messages back
Zashto the sender, that is
jonaswyeah, that’d work too
Zashnot just to your other clients
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ZashTho the exact formatting of the message/@id → stanza-id mapping carrier probably doesn't matter that much
jonaswyo
SaltyBonesThe problem with server generated IDs is that you have to reflect them to the client. This is not a big problem but it seemed like people would have preferred to omit it.
jonaswit’s the only way to be sure though
SaltyBonesTo be sure of what?
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alameyoI think I am on the proper street but I am searching for Thon Hotel