-
vanitasvitae
Off I go, on my way to brussels :)
-
Guus
As am I! See you in a bit!
-
Guus
Awesome, one of my trains got cancelled.
-
vanitasvitae
Up to this point I was lucky
-
vanitasvitae
Toi toi toi
-
Guus
New ETA is 10:00, but then I still need to travel from Brussel North station to Cisco
-
vanitasvitae
Guus: same here. My train from cologne to brussels is 30 mins late
-
Kev
Looking at the timings for the Brussels trains this morning, I think we'd be best off leaving the Thon at about 08:30, grabbing the metro to Centraal, and going from there to Diegem on the 09:04, which'd get us to the office at about 09:30. Other options get us to the office very close to 10:00, and don't give us scope for the train delays and cancellations we've seen in previous years.
-
Tobias
Sounds reasonable
-
Kev
The 09:31 from Schuman sounds lovely, but if that's cancelled we're stuck for another hour and don't get to Cisco until 11:00.
-
Kev
Right. Heading down for breakfast :)
-
Guus
Ooh, two of my trains got cancelled. This is going to be interesting.
-
vanitasvitae
I'm on the road again (or on the rails to be more precise)
-
michalwski
Kev i'm going with you. Where do we meet at the hotel?
-
michalwski
Did my message was really copied 4 times or is my app only?
-
Guus
I got two distinct messages from you in this MUC, michalwski
-
Vaulor
Same here, michalwski
-
Guus
I'm going to try and get off the train in Mechelen, and grab a cab to Cisco. Might just make it in time, if traffic isn't to bad.
-
Guus
Assuming that traffic is not bad in Brussels is not unlike assuming snowfall in hell, but hey, I'm an optimist.
-
jonasw
good morning dear summiteers
-
Guus
Hello dear jonasw
-
jonasw
so, I don’t know how these things usually work, but it’d be great to have agendums announced here, if there is such a thing like an agenda✎ -
jonasw
so, I don’t know how these things usually work, but it’d be great to have agenda announced here, if there is such a thing like an agenda ✏
-
jonasw
even if A/V is available, I won’t be able to pay attention the whole day, but XMPP 2.0 would be very interesting for me and I’d like to "tune in"
-
Guus
jonasw: well create the agenda during the first few minutes of the meeting
-
jonasw
swete :)✎ -
jonasw
cool :) ✏
-
Guus
I'll share the a/v details on the wiki now
-
Guus
If I can, from mobile... Give me a sec
-
jonasw
share them here and I’ll put them on the wiki?
-
Guus
Join the meeting from https://acecloud.webex.com Thursday, February 1, 2018 8:45 am | 10 hrs Meeting number (access code): 202 512 989 Meeting password: jsf2S8P9 Friday, February 2, 2018 8:45 am | 10 hrs Meeting number (access code): 208 941 793 Meeting password: M8nR97ws
-
jonasw
shall I put that on the wiki?
-
Guus
Yes please
-
Guus
I will send the host key to Kev in private. Ralph should also have it.
-
jonasw
are those timestamps UTC?
-
Guus
I assume they are local time
-
jonasw
hm, early
-
jonasw
Guus, https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_22#A.2FV
-
jonasw
oh, I’ll put the URL to the webex thing too
-
Guus
Thanks. I'd make it part of the "remote participation" section, just to be clear.
-
ralphm
We have arrived at Cisco.
-
jonasw
Guus, it is, it’s a subsection
-
Guus
Ah, that didn't render well on mobile. Thanks jonasw. I've also posted it on the summit mailinglist.
-
Guus
ralphm: everything in order there?
-
ralphm
We're still in the parking lot
-
Ge0rG
Guus: do you have an ETA for the Summit start?
-
ralphm
Going in soonish
-
Guus
I'll get off this last train in a few moments. Hope to be there around 10.
-
Guus
Ge0rG: 10.
-
Ge0rG
I was kindly asked to present XMPP2 in an earlyish slot, and I have some real-work appointments to route around it
-
Guus
CET
-
Ge0rG
so -30mins
-
Guus
Yup
-
jonasw
hm
-
jonasw
that’s uncool timing for me. sounds like XMPP2 will run into my lunch break :)
-
jonasw
but whatever
-
jonasw
should’ve been there :)
-
mathieui
MattJ: ping?
-
MattJ
On our way sorry... my brother being slow 😭
-
Guus
ralphm: mind having a stab at setting up the remote participation?
-
jonasw
this sounds like a fun get-together already, I think I’ll have to join next year.
-
Guus
jonasw: you should!
-
SaltyBones
So far the jokes are pretty bad ;)
-
jonasw
SaltyBones, sounds great
-
Ge0rG
"The meeting you are trying to join is not currently in progress."
-
Intosi
That's entirely correct.
-
ralphm
Yeah, we have some bootstrapping issues
-
Guus
Bah. Apologies. I'm inbound, 10 minutes out.
-
vanitasvitae
I just drove past cisco with my train :D
-
vanitasvitae
But I'll arrive at midi soon
-
mathieui
We'll arrive around 10:15
-
Guus
I'm there.
-
vanitasvitae
Hm i missed the train because the ticket machine didnt work :( will be there in 40 minutes
-
dwd
vanitasvitae: Does your train have a flight number?
-
vanitasvitae
S2 3659
-
Ge0rG
So, are issues sorting out, slowly?
- Holger is at Brussels airport.
-
alameyo
I am at the airport too
-
Tobias
Ge0rG, slowly
-
vanitasvitae
Finally on the last train :)
-
ralphm
Ok. New webex stuff: https://acecloud.webex.com/ Meeting number: 155 347 963 Meeting password: XMPP$$123
-
jonasw
ralphm, will you update the wiki page?
-
jonasw
"Invalid number or room ID. Try again." ralphm
-
jonasw
(while the meeting numbers from the wiki get me to "not in progress")
-
jonasw
I’m heading out now though
-
ralphm
oh, let me check the url then
-
ralphm
https://go.webex.com/go/e.php?MTID=mfc24e0ece7aead2f2d38ecb8f88fd94f
-
ralphm
Try that
-
alameyo
Holger: improvisation
-
Tobias
Ge0rG, ^
-
alameyo
I might go back to piano at he airport unless you are closer to the exit
-
Holger
I'm right at the piano.
-
alameyo
so wait 2-3 minutes for me
-
Holger
Will do! 👍
-
vanitasvitae
You have to negotiate a secret symbol
-
alameyo
Holger: security doesn't allow me to go back to piano
-
alameyo
go up the stairs and I am behind security gate
-
alameyo
in way to exit
-
Holger
Ah ok, I'm on the way.
-
vanitasvitae
Was it the first building or the second?
-
Ge0rG
So I'm in the WebEx now. What's the topic? :>
-
ralphm
disco items caching
-
Ge0rG
Awesome. We need that.
-
Ge0rG
The video just degraded into a surrealistic aquarel painting.
-
ralphm
The initial idea is to put the hash of the item list into a XEP-0004 form that becomes part of the disco info response that can be cached like normal with CAPS
-
dwd
Merkle-Caps.
-
dwd
Which is much of the discussion at the moment - how deep is the Merkle-Caps-tree.
-
Tobias
Ge0rG, are you ready?
-
Ge0rG
can you hear me
-
Tobias
no
-
Tobias
now
-
Ge0rG
ralphm: https://op-co.de/tmp/whats-wrong-with-xmpp-2017.pdf
-
vanitasvitae
did you receive a wifi password?
-
vanitasvitae
I fear I havent
-
dwd
Nobody has. You'll have to pay attention instead. It's a disaster.
-
vanitasvitae
D:
-
Holger
Public transport is great fun.
-
dwd
Since you're using XMPP, you can use multiple transports, though.
-
goffi
hi
-
Holger
dwd: 😛
-
Holger
We're walking!
-
goffi
Is there anything happening at the moment ? The WebEx link tells me "The meeting is not in progress"
-
mathieui
do you have the latest link?
-
goffi
mathieui: I've used the one on the wiki
-
mathieui
webex is up and Ge0rG is talking
-
goffi
hum so I guess I don't have the right link
-
mathieui
10:41:41 ralphm> Ok. New webex stuff: https://acecloud.webex.com/ Meeting number: 155 347 963 Meeting password: XMPP$$123
-
goffi
OK thanks
-
goffi
updating the wiki would be a good idea
-
goffi
Invalid number or room ID. Try again.
-
goffi
ralphm: I'm getting Invalid number with those credentials (and there is no password requested)
-
Tobias
goffi, have you tried https://go.webex.com/go/e.php?MTID=mfc24e0ece7aead2f2d38ecb8f88fd94f ?
-
ralphm
set the topic to
XMPP Summit 22 Brussels | https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_22 | WebEx: https://go.webex.com/go/e.php?MTID=mfc24e0ece7aead2f2d38ecb8f88fd94f
-
goffi
Tobias: no, but nobody gave me this link I think
-
Tobias
please try it then :)
-
mathieui
right, I didn’t read enough
-
goffi
Tobias: working, thanks
-
Tobias
you're welcome
-
goffi
I have video but not sound, checking if it's coming from my side
-
goffi
OK it's good now
-
mathieui
goffi, we hear you
-
Tobias
could you silence you're mic
-
mathieui
thanks
-
goffi
sorry :)
-
mathieui
Ge0rG, we lost you
- jonasw waves
- vanitasvitae waves back
-
intosi
"The list up there" is:
-
intosi
* Presence Sorting / per resource
-
intosi
* Message routing
-
intosi
* Stable IDs
-
intosi
* Read state
-
intosi
* History / Inbox
-
intosi
* Metadata
-
intosi
* Rooms
-
intosi
* Impromptu
-
intosi
* Notifications
-
intosi
* Fast Connections
-
intosi
* BIND2
-
intosi
* SASL2
-
intosi
* Disco caching
-
intosi
* Non IM
-
intosi
* Low prio
-
Ge0rG
intosi: you urgently need to update to a multi-line capable client :P
-
intosi
It can do multi-line
-
intosi
I just couldn't be bothered
-
Ge0rG
re "Carbons needs to go away": we still need it as a transport to deliver sent-copies of outgoing messages to our other client
-
jonasw
who’s speaking by the way? I guess it’s Kev.
-
intosi
It's Kev.
-
Zash
Sounds like
-
intosi
Guus speaking now.
-
jonasw
does that video-zooms-in-on-some-speaker thing happen automatically :-O
-
Zash
Is there video?
-
intosi
It does.
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: it's supposed to.
-
intosi
There are a bunch of cameras in this room, and a lot of Dark Magic™ happens.
-
jonasw
I bet
-
Ge0rG
and this is why I'm seeing the same position for an hour now.
-
Zash
Hm, works in Chromium but not Firefox :|
-
jonasw
yeah, I guessed that firefox will be icky so I went with chromium right away
-
Ge0rG
The password is "XMPP Summit"
-
jonasw
and then there was silence
-
Zash
*crickets*
-
Zash
/nick tumbleweed
-
jonasw
someone is stealing a chair!
-
Ge0rG
Hopefully not the meeting chair.
-
jonasw
hah
-
Ge0rG
I wondered about 100% CPU load, but then realized it's Chromium for the WebEx
-
goffi
same here, while on Firefox it was fine
-
goffi
not sure if video worth it
-
goffi
well maybe not, Firefox is high too when switching back to it, weird it was fine before
-
goffi
can somebody ping this room when it's starting again ? I've stopped webex for now
-
jonasw
+1 ^
-
winfried
+1
-
Zash
People seem to be falling back in
-
jonasw
do we maybe wanna make a soundcheck for the remote people? I have no idea if my audio is okay-ish configured
-
Zash
Ge0rG was LOUD compared to the people in the room
-
jonasw
yeah
-
goffi
thanks Zash
-
jc
Vaulor: hey, I told him ☺️
-
goffi
is this webex thing using some kind of XMPP ?
-
Ge0rG
Zash: sorry, I started out silent and tuned my microphone to 11
-
jonasw
what’s the topic?
-
jonasw
I lack context
-
MattJ
Nothing formal - half of everyone is still at lunch
-
jonasw
sounds like something technical DNSy
-
MattJ
jabber.org has had DNS issues for a while
-
jonasw
while we’re at it, can we somehow increase volume of the microphone in that room?
-
MattJ
When ralphm gets back, perhaps
-
jonasw
ahk. I don’t know faces. I saw sams badge and I recognize guus, I guess who’s holger, but otherwise I’ve got no idea :)
-
goffi
I have a video in small on the right, and the passed presentation in big in the center. Is there any way to move video to main video ? I don't seen anything in UI to do that.
-
jonasw
goffi, the separator between them can be dragged
-
goffi
oh right thanks, could hardly see it
-
Zash
oooooooh, I wondered about that as well
-
jonasw
yah
-
jonasw
I also only found that by accident
-
MattJ
Is someone note-taking?
-
Tobias
yes, jc
-
jonasw
go jc!
-
MattJ
Thanks jc!
-
dwd
No, don't go! Keep taking notes!
-
jonasw
well
-
Holger
> I guess who’s holger Was still at lunch when you wrote that though 🙂
-
jc
You're welcome, I'll upload once I have internet in the laptop
-
Zash
who was phone^W Holger
-
jonasw
Holger, true, but I think I recognized you when you came in late
-
jonasw
I didn’t mean to say that you were there when I wrote that
-
dwd
Pretty exciting. Everyone's getting WiFi.
-
goffi
is is a surprise test ?
-
goffi
is it*
-
goffi
you have 2 hours
-
vanitasvitae
They block XMPP!!!!
-
Zash
Typical corporate firewall?
-
jonasw
what?
-
jonasw
seriously?
-
jonasw
at Cisco?
-
vanitasvitae
I cant connect to any of my servers
-
Holger
jonasw: Right, "came in late" sounds like me.
-
vanitasvitae
Internet works fine though
-
debacle
Holger, like in the Berlin XMPP meetup? :~)
-
mathieui
Ge0rG, jonasw, goffi, wegre starting
-
debacle
But I'm in the same group then
-
dwd
l'll stick with 4G. We're starting again, by the way.
-
mathieui
vanitasvitae, also they don’t block XMPP
-
jonasw
mathieui, thanks, I’m already in
-
vanitasvitae
I remember last year I worked around it by connecting through a vpn
-
goffi
mathieui: thx
-
mathieui
it’s fine on 443 :p
-
jonasw
winfried
-
Tobias
we're starting again
-
vanitasvitae
Ah that might be
-
winfried
yes?
-
jonasw
winfried, meeting’s resuming
-
winfried
(y)
-
Holger
debacle: Same procedure as everywhere.
-
goffi
jonasw: we can see you, no sure if this is intended
-
jonasw
goffi, it is
-
goffi
OK :)
-
jonasw
a fancy green light is telling me
-
goffi
it's hard to get everything, what's the topic ?
-
jonasw
goffi, we’re still at XMPP 2.0, but I’m not sure what the PEP thing is about
-
jonasw
can someone from the room please clarify?
-
MattJ
Before lunch we discussed per-user presence, instead of what we currently have: per-device
-
Zash
Status stuff in PEP instead of in presence
-
dwd
<status/> and <show/> moving from presence to PEP.
-
jonasw
ah
-
MattJ
This would be an additional status, in PEP
-
jonasw
now things make sense
-
MattJ
SamWhited offered to write a XEP
-
dwd
MattJ, Replacement, not additional.
-
MattJ
Indeed
-
jcbrand
I'll continue with the notes here: https://beta.etherpad.org/p/XMPP_Summit_2018_Day_1
-
goffi
jcbrand: neat
-
Zash
VERY LOUD YES
-
jonasw
sorry
-
jonasw
was it better then?
-
jonasw
otherwise I’ll tune it down even more. in the preview it was like 2 out of 10 bars, so I assumed it was too silent, Zash
-
Zash
I've vol'd up to hear the room
-
jonasw
ah right
-
jonasw
I forgot that you aren’t there
-
jonasw
yah, the room is really quiet
-
Zash
I think it's the room that is low, you and Ge0rG are probably normal
-
jonasw
Ge0rG, ping
-
mathieui
(no ipv6 at cisco :x)
-
jonasw
what’s the etiquette for enqueing a remark to the discussion? I’m not sure if people in the room are giving hand signs.
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: back
-
jonasw
Ge0rG, meeting resumed
-
jonasw
topic is impromptu mucs
-
Ge0rG
I see backs
-
jonasw
cheers, Zash
-
dwd
jonasw, W're waving hands about. I suggest you shout, and/or say here you've a comment.
-
dwd
If you say here, we'll try and notice and pass on your hand waving.
-
jonasw
heh
-
winfried
privacy by default, sharing optional
-
Ge0rG
Having an "impromptu MUC group creation" was on my 45 agenda for a while, but first I wanted to implement it
- jonasw waves hand
-
jonasw
(cc @ dwd maybe)
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: I can't see you waving :P
-
dwd
Much discussion about hand waving. You're covered.
-
Ge0rG
Zash: now I understand what you meant by *LOUD*
-
jonasw
Ge0rG, you were as loud :)
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: sorry
-
jonasw
wee message routing
-
dwd
"Temporarily". Kev demonstrating optimism there.
-
jonasw
haha
-
jonasw
my thought exactly
-
jonasw
but then he said "on a single jid" and it seemed more realistic
-
Zash
Until the heat death of the universe then
-
MattJ
Obligatory mention of vcard-temp
-
Ge0rG
Did the conf video collapse for everyone or just for me?
-
MattJ
Ralph is "fixing" it
-
jonasw
while you’re messing with things
-
jonasw
could you make it louder?
-
jonasw
it’s really quiet for us remotelers
-
jonasw
which is awful when somebody non-remote says somtehing
-
dwd
ralphm: ^^
-
jcbrand
I'm sorry but the etherpad is doing weird stuff, I don't trust it with taking notes...
-
jcbrand
I'll make the notes locally for now and then upload them later
-
jonasw
seems good
-
jonasw
I didn’t even konw that there was a pad :)
-
Zash
jonasw: that is the right thing to do
-
Zash
don't trust etherpads
-
Zash
they eat your data
-
dwd
It's how they survive in the wild.
-
jonasw
hand-wavy note from the floor: why would IoT even worry about the Archive? it could just disable archive and not worry about getting pubsub archived?
-
Zash
SIMS!
-
Ge0rG
"Resource Locking"
-
jcbrand
The notes are here now, I'll update them from time to time: https://xmppsummit2018.opkode.com/2018-Summit%20Day%20one.html
-
jonasw
404
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID
-
jonasw
it redirects to opkode.com
-
Ge0rG
then 404s.
-
jonasw
yeah
-
jonasw
jcbrand, I got redirected here: https://opkode.com/2018-Summit%20Day%20one.html
-
jonasw
dwd, handwave
-
Ge0rG
And then somebody will attempt resource locking to bare-JID, breaking even more
-
MattJ
Ge0rG, hmm?
-
Ge0rG
MattJ: when rewriting `from` from full to bare
-
goffi
jcbrand: s/Moving/Movim/
-
MattJ
I don't understand "resource locking to bare-JID"
-
Tobias
yeah...these words in that sequence don't make much sense imo
-
Tobias
Ge0rG, can you rephrase that?
-
Ge0rG
maybe I misunderstood Kev's proposal as rewriting the *from* JID
-
Ge0rG
so a client would resource-lock to bare JID after receiving a message from a bare JID
-
dwd
jonasw: I was doing something else when you did the handwave, and instead it came up on my watch, which was really quite impressive.
-
Ge0rG
Gajim used so send normal-to-full, a looong time ago✎ -
Ge0rG
Gajim used to send normal-to-full, a looong time ago ✏
-
Ge0rG
yaxim never implemented resource locking
-
jonasw
same for aioxmpp. when I was about to do it, people were already ranting against it and I was like "eh, so why bother"
-
jonasw
I’m gonna get me some tea, my throat hurts, see you later
-
mathieui
jonasw, you’re lucky, we got it in poezio before the complaints
-
Ge0rG
mathieui: if only you had asked me :P
-
Link Mauve
I removed it just recently.
-
Ge0rG
Link Mauve: I was positively surprised
-
jonasw
ok, there’s something about crypto now, I missed a context switch, where are we at?
-
mathieui
jonasw, entropy in message IDs
-
jonasw
ah
-
Link Mauve
jonasw, generating random ids.
-
jonasw
yah
-
Zash
> With entropy in message ids, you don't need encryption
-
Ge0rG
the automatic camera is awesome.
-
jonasw
jcbrand, if you make your screen a bit brighter and font larger, we don’t need an etherpad :-)
-
jonasw
it’s weird too, Ge0rG
-
Zash
Is that Edvins or Daves back of the head we got earlier?
-
jcbrand
stanza-ids
-
jcbrand
jonasw: better?
-
Ge0rG
I just realized that we *can* see Kev - mirrored in the glass door
-
jonasw
jcbrand, I was mostly kidding, but your link still 404s :(
-
dwd
Onscreen is Edwin's head.
-
Ge0rG
A client could be OOM killed at any time, so it needs to persist the non-persistent message IDs.
-
jcbrand
jonasw: https://xmppsummit2018.opkode.com/
-
jonasw
redirects to opkode.com :(
-
Ge0rG
How long is "this long"?
-
jcbrand
hmm
-
jcbrand
https://xmppsummit2018.opkode.com/2018-Summit%20Day%20one.html
-
jcbrand
jonasw ?? ^
-
jonasw
same thing, but my browser might’ve cached the redirect from your first attempt
-
jonasw
doesn’t work even with fresh cache
-
mathieui
id='cb1ef50e-36cf-4b1f-90d0-0a1808e10676-1bdfd5b7-dc4a-4444-b13e-4d045f17c12a'
-
Zash
Hrm, how do you get chromium to pick a different camera?
-
Ge0rG
we need the message ID to consist of two UUIDs, separated by a "/"
-
jonasw
Zash, for sending?
-
Ge0rG
one generated by the client, the other by the server
-
Zash
jonasw: yeah, can't seem to switch to an external webcam instead of the built in laptop one
-
Ge0rG
or maybe a chain of UUIDs.
-
Ge0rG
every hop adds one.
-
mathieui
Ge0rG, do I hear blockchain?
-
Ge0rG
mathieui: Yes!
-
jonasw
Zash, I’m not sure if it let me pick one when I first connected
-
Zash
jonasw: I only had one camera at first, plugged in a usb webcam now.
-
Ge0rG
The UUID chain idea is actually half-serious.
-
jonasw
Zash, maybe re-join the thing?
-
Zash
Camera selection dropdown field is disabled tho
-
Zash
And I can't select one when joining
-
jonasw
hm
-
jonasw
weird then
-
Ge0rG
client sends id="foobar", server forwards as id="foobar/bazboom", MUC stores as id="foobar/bazboom/dadada"
-
jcbrand
jonasw: I think it caches the redirect yes
-
Ge0rG
jcbrand: curl doesn't cache. curl says: < Location: https://opkode.com/
-
Ge0rG
(301)
-
mathieui
(jcbrand’s link works for me fyi)
-
jonasw
huh
-
dwd
Ge0rG, I think we run the risk that this might involve about 6 or 7 segments by the time it gets to a client again
-
jcbrand
Seems to be an ipv6 issue
-
dwd
Otherwise, it's horribly close to being possible.
-
jonasw
jcbrand, oh, that may make sense, I’ve got v6 here
-
mathieui
dwd, think of the j2j transports, we can recurse into infinity
-
Ge0rG
dwd: the only problem I see is how to find the right segment again
-
jcbrand
should work now (hopefully cert is fine)
-
jcbrand
jonasw: ^
-
Ge0rG
jcbrand: works for me now
-
Ge0rG
Please don't store MUC messages in user's archive.
-
jonasw
jcbrand, \o/
-
dwd
Ge0rG, I'm going to store everyone's messages in my archive.
-
Zash
*everyones*
-
jonasw
so that’s why everyone wants OMEMO. thanks dave.
-
SamWhited
I'm storing Skype messages in my archive.
-
Ge0rG
dwd: I'll involve the data privacy officer.
-
dwd
Ge0rG, We haven't reached GDPR doomsday yet. I'm safe.
-
jonasw
Ge0rG, take care, you with your IP logging ;-)
-
jonasw
re mentions I’d like to throw in the idea I had some time ago. the idea was essentially to allow clients/users to publish a list of terms (in PEP or in presence or w/e) on which they highlight
-
jonasw
that would probably tie in well with "detecting mentions in archive server-side"
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: also for push push-through
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: minus E2EE
-
Ge0rG
let's abolish E2EE
-
Zash
E2EE, nice things. pick one.
-
SaltyBones
jonasw: I think that is exactly what Kev proposed for push/CSI/battery safe/notifications
-
jonasw
ah maybe, I might’ve missed that
-
Ge0rG
jcbrand: have you written down everything from my presentation slides? :>
-
Zash
Did someone say something that could boil down to having mod_firewall rules for what to carbon, what to archive etc?
-
jcbrand
Georg: I was still feeling "fleissig"
-
jcbrand
that was before lunch
-
jonasw
Zash, "if xmpp2 && fulljid, no archive, no carbon. if xmpp2 && barejid, archive and carbon"?
-
Ge0rG
jcbrand: ah, IC. It'd be nice to have some colorcoding of what was said vs. what was on the slides
-
Ge0rG
I'm out of the WebEx, need to do some piled up work. ping me when interesting things are happening again :)
-
jonasw
damn, I was about to do the same thing :)
-
SouL
30 minutes break, just if you couldn't hear
-
jonasw
oh
-
jonasw
I assumed some kind of break already, but wasn’t sure how long
-
Ge0rG
SouL: I was getting coffee
-
SouL
I'm the guy with purple squares
-
SouL
Helloo :D
-
jonasw
I’m disconnected
-
SouL
I will write when we are back again
-
Zash
Squares?
-
jcbrand
Ge0rG I'm not sure how to add color coding, will check
-
SouL
Zash, shirt, next to SamWhited x)
-
Ge0rG
jcbrand: or replace the slide content with a link to the PDF (I also have ODP) and the page number
-
jcbrand
Ge0rG What's the URL to the PDF?
-
Ge0rG
jcbrand: https://op-co.de/tmp/whats-wrong-with-xmpp-2017.pdf
-
jcbrand
Ok, I'll update
-
jcbrand
BTW, the notes are in wiki syntax (because I use vimwiki), so I can later put them on the XSF wiki
-
Zash
which wiki syntax is that?
-
intosi
Good man.
-
jonasw
mediawiki
-
jcbrand
https://github.com/vimwiki/vimwiki
-
jcbrand
yes, mediawiki AFAIK (for vimwiki)
-
jonasw
it’s only similar to mediawiki
-
jonasw
mediawiki uses '''x''' for bold, not *x*, and I think nested lists work entirely different (** instead of indent + *)
-
jcbrand
ah
-
jcbrand
can be fixed with vim regex
-
Ge0rG
Good man.
-
dwd
We are going to start again.
-
jonasw
dwd, wave
-
Ge0rG
What's the agenda?
-
MattJ
Kev's scribbled list on the whiteboard, not sure if anyone can read it but him
-
Zash
Is there a camera pointed at the whiteboard?
-
MattJ
Current topic is "inbox"
-
intosi
MattJ: jc's transcription should have them as well.
-
Ge0rG
I haven't seen Kev at all yet, except briefly as a mirroring in the glass door
-
Ge0rG
what's "inbox"?
-
intosi
I also posted the list in this room this morning.
-
goffi
I've catched late, what's this inbox thing ?
-
goffi
same as activityPub ?
-
jonasw
goffi, Ge0rG the list of currently open conversations
-
MattJ
A server-side shared list of open chats
-
jonasw
no
-
jonasw
yah
-
Ge0rG
does it make sense to have?
-
Ge0rG
probably yes
-
jonasw
I think so
-
MattJ
If you have lots of contacts (imagine you're part of an organisation with thousands of members) you want to keep track of open conversations
-
jonasw
it’s a tricky issue I’ve been pondering in JC for a while
-
goffi
would be neat yes
-
jonasw
having clients collaborate on that would be cool
-
SouL
Ge0rG, I'm guessing is not something that would be used in Yaxim?
-
jonasw
but I’m not sure if it should affect MAM queries
-
Ge0rG
SouL: why not?
-
Ge0rG
SouL: I'd like to have a "recent conversations" view, but it needs significant refactoring
-
Zash
Prosody?
-
SouL
Ge0rG, ah ok, I was talking about how is it now. Nothing to say then.
-
MattJ
Prosody keeps being blamed for "why not just use PEP?"
-
MattJ
^ Zash
-
goffi
it's really hard to understand Daniel, he's far from mic
-
Zash
Someone wanna help with finnishing the node config persistence bits?
-
jonasw
I can’t into lua :(
-
MattJ
I can't out of Lua :(
-
goffi
I'm still advocating for external PEP/Pubsub component, there are still lot to do on Pubsub and servers will not catch before years.
-
daniel
> Someone wanna help with finnishing the node config persistence bits? Maybe
-
daniel
If there is a todo list. Or unfinished but pushed code
-
jonasw
are we still talking about the "inbox" pubsub node?
-
daniel
jonasw: yes
-
jonasw
uh
-
jonasw
removing read conversatinos from that sounds bad
-
jonasw
just because a conversation is read I wouldn’t want it to disappear from the list
-
jonasw
it should take user interaction to be removed
-
MattJ
+1
-
jonasw
or did I misunderstand that, daniel?
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: if I remove a conversation on Conversations, do I want it to vanish from poezio, too?
-
MattJ
Yes
-
jonasw
Ge0rG, I *think* there’s a point in that, but I’m also not sure if I’d always want that
-
jonasw
because e.g. I don’t want conversations to sync #dovecot on freenode on each connect
-
Zash
send that chat state that says you ended the convo?
-
jonasw
but I still want it on all non-mobile clients.
-
jonasw
Zash, smart
-
SouL
Could we have a "Close from here" and "Close from everywhere"?
-
Zash
jonasw: until we start doing chat states over presence, and there's no carbons anymore
-
jonasw
SouL, I don’t like that UX
-
jonasw
(for conversations at least)
-
jonasw
Zash, well, the server would obviously update the pubsub node
-
Zash
ah, sure, that would work
-
Ge0rG
SouL: that's a horrible hack.
-
Zash
I'd like to remind y'all that if you make MAM impossible to implement on append-only data structures, I will cry
-
MattJ
Make sure your webcam is turned on
-
Ge0rG
MattJ: now you made me want to see that too
-
jonasw
Zash, it is possibel, like you can implement anything append-only, but it might become very inefficient to access
-
Zash
Something Smart™
-
jonasw
some video breakage here, is it just me?
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: here too
-
jonasw
ah fixed
-
Zash
and here
-
jonasw
daniel, +1
-
Ge0rG
the good shit, the real shit? Audio is a little bit blocky
-
Zash
daniel: It's started in the sense that Link Mauve added content persistence. Configuration persistence isn't there, apart from whether to enable persistence, which is something of a hack atm.
-
Zash
Something like what?
-
SamWhited
Zash: Slack, HipChat, etc.
-
Zash
Ah, then me neither
-
goffi
notifications would be neat to keep server side too. For now we have to keep track of messages
-
Zash
Is this the thing were mod_firewall fits in? :)
-
daniel
Note that I personally care more about configurability than persistence
-
MattJ
The current discussion is about notification preferences being stored server-side, not actual server-side notifications
-
daniel
I don't restart my server 😀
-
intosi
In buggy CPU world, cloud hoster restarts your server for you.
-
jonasw
first time I’m seeing kev!
-
mathieui
ralphm found the camea manual controls, I think✎ -
mathieui
ralphm found the camera manual controls, I think ✏
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: I was just thinking that
-
jonasw
not to mention that SCRAM takes some power too
-
jonasw
depending on the number of iterations
-
Zash
jonasw: cacheable tho
-
jonasw
SCRAM actually took most of the time for establishing a connection on my MIPS-based router back then
-
jonasw
Zash, only partially, isn’t it?
-
Zash
jonasw: If the salt is fixed, which it should be, then you can cache the SaltedPassword
-
Zash
then it's just some XOR and HMAC
-
jonasw
I’d like to throw in that these are possibly details which should be up to implementation experimentation?
-
jonasw
who’s the guy next to dave with the erlang sticker?
-
Zash
I doubt fast reconnect can become as cheap as just sending <{csi}active> on an existing TLS connection
-
jonasw
Zash, I tend to agree
-
Zash
Unavailable presence instead of csi-inactive?
-
jonasw
dwd, I’d like to throw in: you might want to discover the <identity/> of a client
-
Ge0rG
I really love Holger's hack of keeping an SM detached session as long as push is registered.
-
jcbrand
jonasw: Nicolas Vérité
-
jonasw
and I’d also like to throw in that servers are allowed to intercept dicso#info and answer on your behalf if you do caps
-
Zash
How far away is multisomething-tcp?
-
mathieui
jonasw, nyco
-
Ge0rG
Zash: very far away
-
Zash
in theory
-
Ge0rG
If I had to bet on MIX vs multi-path TCP, I'd put my money on Duke Nukem Forever.
-
Zash
Ge0rG: That joke doesn't work anymore
-
Ge0rG
Zash: I feel old now.
-
Zash
I for would would put my money on GNU Hurd 1.0✎ -
Zash
I for one would would put my money on GNU Hurd 1.0 ✏
-
jonasw
who’s the one in purple next to dave?
-
Tobias
https://wiki.openssl.org/index.php/Simple_TLS_Server "You should avoid 0-RTT if possible. In fact, an organization's data security policy may not allow it for some higher data sensitivity levels. "
-
jonasw
ah, hantu.sc
-
intosi
The entire section on that page reads as a "Here be dragons" regarding 0-RTT
-
SouL
.w cop
-
SouL
Ignore that message, sorry.
-
intosi
No space left on device
-
Zash
Someone print that on a t-shirt and give to SouL
-
vanitasvitae
Hah, i can access xmpp via tor when in the cisco wifi.
-
goffi
I could not follow all the discussion. About XMPP 2.0 would it be a RFCs or XEPs ?
-
goffi
RFCs seems more logical, but it will take years
-
Zash
What is XMPP 2.0?
-
Ge0rG
goffi: AFAIU it was decided not to put into the IETF process
-
goffi
Zash: the stuff which was discussed for a good part of the day, change in the heart of the protocol to fix broken stuff, cf. https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XMPP_2.0
-
goffi
Ge0rG: OK, but that seems weird to have major changes without doing RFCs
-
Ge0rG
goffi: the changes might not be as major as anticipated
-
goffi
Zash: I've missed good part of the discussions, but it was about stanza ids, removing resource locking, putting stuff from presence to PEP
-
goffi
Ge0rG: OK, I'll guess it will be discussed on the mailing list anyway, so I'll see there.
-
Ge0rG
from message to presence, from presence to PEP
-
Ge0rG
from PEP to message.
-
Zash
goffi: That was actually meant as a joke.
-
Zash
But what does it mean or something.
-
SaltyBones
I have an idea on how to build stable IDs. Who could I give that to for review/shredding? :)
-
Ge0rG
SaltyBones: write a proto-XEP, or ask tomorrow
-
Zash
Is it (stream id, message counter) ?
-
Zash
Wait, stable ids for what?
-
SaltyBones
Zash: are you volunteering to discuss it? ;)
-
jonasw
I still don’t quite understand what’s wrong with putting 256 bits entropy into a random ID and be done with it.
-
jonasw
on conflict re-roll
-
jonasw
generate IDs on the server
-
jonasw
what’s the problem?
-
Zash
Which IDs is this about?
-
SamWhited
I think we were talking about the client earlier; you can't trust the client to generate IDs correctly as ralph pointed out. The server may be a different story.
-
Zash
But the client wants to know the ID the server picked, and be able to associate it with whatever internal ID it might have
-
jonasw
return the ID in <{sm}a/>
-
jonasw
:>
-
jonasw
(the IDs)
-
jonasw
(in a message/@id -> stanza-id mapping)
-
Zash
I thought the idea was to extend carbons to reflect messages back
-
Zash
to the sender, that is
-
jonasw
yeah, that’d work too
-
Zash
not just to your other clients
-
Zash
Tho the exact formatting of the message/@id → stanza-id mapping carrier probably doesn't matter that much
-
jonasw
yo
-
SaltyBones
The problem with server generated IDs is that you have to reflect them to the client. This is not a big problem but it seemed like people would have preferred to omit it.
-
jonasw
it’s the only way to be sure though
-
SaltyBones
To be sure of what?
-
alameyo
I think I am on the proper street but I am searching for Thon Hotel
-
alameyo
oh I see it