XMPP Summit - 2019-01-31

If your fast train passes a very slow cyclist - that's me :)

https://upload.jabberhead.tk:5443/f0a454a3b03d017a262dfcfef56c2235742e325d/cVzgbSCXEiGJZ41EQP5O2xiDzvMEoVGQOSNZHj3k/jJPguG1_Q4uiipRmGib-nA.jpg

Here we go!

https://jabber.fu-berlin.de/share/holger/NFbieOmlhgTWNAOr/u89OG5tlRLy2qxHPlhcG2A.jpg

You're one hop further than me.

Ugh, I feel bad for waking up only now. 😀

Awesome, my first train got cancelled

Hm, I got something of a dejavu from last year 😀

Last year, my first TWO trains got cancelled

Ehhh... The lights just went out in the train that I'm in now.

It's still moving though 🤨

good morning, summiteers

I’m ready to join remotely once the party starts

vanitasvitae, Holger: have a safe trip :)

Hah, train is delayed by 10 minutes due to snow and ice :D

I knew it. flow thanks :)

Snow, in winter? Completely unexpected!

Un-Ex-Pected

Ugh, soo early

Global warming is a scam!

itym a SCAM

Obviously

(wrong window) ✏

The cisco train station was called Diegem, right?

Yes.

vanitasvitae, from the data in this room, I think that’s true. somebody claimed that a train to Diegem is a good t hing, also the address Guus gave in the email contains Diegem

Landed. Someone else happen to be at the airport?

In half an hour

Zaventem, that is.

Hm, if all goes to plan I'll arrive at 10:13 in Diegem

IF...

pep., Zash, Link Mauve: We already left to the train station

Syndace: here we are!

We'll catch up

Good morning all!

Having breakfast with Alex

We landed in time but now can't leave the plain. Gate somehow b0rked.

Nothing works.

Holger: you out? I'm about to arrive (but will have to get through security)

We can share a cab

Just a reminder for folks at Thon. Some of us are meeting up around 0910 in the lobby to take the train from Schuman to Diegem.

👍

Holger: ?

Guus: Got off the plain now, but I guess it'll take me 20 minutes to get to the busses.

Plus I need to get a coffee and tickets.

Let's share a cab, which is faster

I can do coffee 😁

Where are you at? I'm near the escalators, second floor

There's a Java Coffee House here

Anyone at Cisco yet?

We are about 10-15 minutes away

Guus: Close to the 'info' desk now.

Unsure where that is. I'll stand still and show off my XMPP hoody. 😀

Guus: I'd like to get tickets for Saturday/Sunday, because here I know how it works (IIRC you don't get the same 'airport tickets' everywhere in town). But sharing a cab then sounds good.

Kk

I'm just chilling by the cafe past reception

Downstairs at the ticket thing now.

Holger: what level?

Back at 2 now, looking for you 🙂

We are here

could the folks already there try to figure out what’s needed for webex?

So, what's the wifi?

I'll be a bit late 😣

Zash, if I read the mail from Guus correctly, there’s a list with wifi accounts somewhere, possibly at the reception?

> A printed list of wifi accounts will be available. As I'm not sure how > often an account can be re-used, please cross off the account that you used > from the printed list (or risk suffering intermittent disconnects).

It's a list on his phone, currently doing the rounds.

Have a good Summit friends!

pep. currently reading the terms of use of the wifi

TL;DR?

"Next -> Next -> Accept"

XMPP Summit discussion - Collab Meeting Notes @ https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/XMPP_Summit_2019_Day1

Is there anyone waiting remotely for AV?

Just put a link to an etherpad in the subject. In case people want to have some meeting notes and collaborate on that

Ralph's trying to get it set up at the moment.

Kev, yes

$ host example.com example.com is an alias for sinkhole-dev.cisco.com.

I think we'll have to do around-the-room introductions first, and hope that Ralph can get AV sorted out by the time we're done for that.

First fun wifi quirk

Kev, yes, introductions would be nice to have for me

MattJ, does it allow port 5222? :)

Seems yes

jonas’: You mean you want us to wait for that too?

still no ipv6 though

Kev, would be nice, yeah

but since I appear to be the only one joining remotely, there’s no need to block on that if A/V is going to take a considerable while to set up.

It's not proving trivial, I'm afraid.

There are still other people in the office

irk..people

We'v done intros and are trying to restart the AV.

alright

Thank you for the updates :)

afk for a minute or two

but otherwise ready to do tests

I think they're trying to figure out how to not get echo into the room

Cisco are on the case.

That escalated quickly.

I’m back

We're not.

We're trying not to start until we've got AV, but ...

Unfortunate

any chance to get an audio stream at least from someone in the audience?

maybe a palava.tv based one

We've not started yet, we're still holding off for AV.

Now all the units are getting restarted...

Now having to go to 'IT' to get stuff fixed, so we'll have to go ahead, sorry.

meh

Indeed.

But without an end in sight ...

one would think that Cisco would have have this type of things down

yeah, sure, go ahead

I’m a little annoyed, but not at you folks :)

At some point we'll find a venue where they have AV they understand :)

at some point we’ll have the software for the AV

...based on XMPP

Fyi, what we did yesterday at UX Sprint: https://cryptpad.fr/code/#/2/code/edit/vW7RS05cpxQh+Fp8AsVq+HUd/

mathieui, ↑

I’d like to raise my point about "can someone stream via palava.tv or anything"?

I don't think sensibly so, not from this room, TBH.

alright

ping me when there’s a chance for AV

It's a hell of a size to pick up from a phone or laptop.

multiple clients for super-surround-sound? ;-)

but yeah

go ahead, ping me when there’s A/V in sight

jonas’: it is being worked on and I'll let you know as soon as I can

re agenda re compression: I have some numbers here which I’m happy to explain here or in that issue there, if necessary: https://github.com/horazont/aioxmpp/issues/249

re IDs: we did some bashing of crazy things one day in xsf@, something about generating IDs verifiably using an HMAC: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2018-02-12/#16:14:23

https://cs.co/rudy

jonas’: ^ can you try and join?

on it

I see some spinners

who is Rudy De Keninck? :)

Our Cisco contact

I see

nice, chromium seems to have issues using my webcam

hm, I tried Chrome on Ubuntu and that worked fine

I hear audio

I don't hear audio.

trying firefox in parallel now

no video though

firefox manages to connetc to my webcam at least

I can see the "speaking" indicator from the host, but no sound is emitted by firefox

> Video is not currently available due to low bandwidth or local computer conditions (such as CPU or RAM use). Video will resume automatically when conditions improve.

O_o

“Video will resume once you have changed your CPU.”

Sounds like you want to order messages in some sort of tree on server side. The root is a message and the children are the metadata

or maybe stopped chromium.

jonas’: increase the number of CPU cores!

*sigh*

RSM = Result Set Management

Ge0rG, is the tab showing the speaker icon?

What're the words behind READ on the board? ✏

Tobias, "by them" "by us"

ahh...ta

still no video, this box isn’t really heavily loaded

goffi, was what you added to the collab notes already mentioned in the room?

Ge0rG: still no audio?

am I identifying the main speaker right now correctly as being Kev?

jonas’, yes

\o/

Tobias: did I add something already mentioned?

goffi, "having a summary of e.g. reactions ("110 people ♥"), and details on demand (who liked?)" but that's probably what Ralph is currently talking about :)

Tobias: it is what Ralph was talking about indeed, that's why I've added it to the minutes, I don't get what's wrong with that?

goffi, nothing wrong with that, I probably missed when it was mentioned before. :)

ok :)

somebody remember what the 3 Dimensions are?

[messages, metadata, meta-values] ?

what is the preferred method for a remote participant to chime into the discussion? especially without video, it’s hard to find points to jump in

was just about to ask that :)

mention in CAPS that you want to say something :)

jonas’, raise your voice here and someone will hopefully give you voice

I’ll hereby do that

or that way

https://cerdale.zash.se/upload/O258ftnL9D0akHzX/FLa9I2T4RTmRxKWWRVoqvg.jpg

MAM2 ↔ IMAP

flow: oh no

hehe :)

Zash, would it upset you if I said that this is not very readable ?

that's how we see jonas’ atm

oh, I thought you were showing the whiteboard

He looks quite default

hah

let’s see if cable helps with video

it doesn’t

I don't think you are joined currently

but I hear audio

oh, good

I’m going to try to restart firefox now in hopes that fixes video

if you want to say something, let me know and i'll try to channel that

I heard that

thanks :)

ralphm, what are revs?

Tobias, refs ?

I think

references probably

References yes

ahh :)

ta

https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0372.html

yeah..that rings a bell...it's just a mixture of Kev Font and font size

I’d like to throw in that there’s a thing already to say on the wire that "this replaces my earlier thing" which is Last Message Correction

except for the "Last" part

jonas’, it was mentioned

ok, sorry

I thought that was in a different context

audio isn’t terribly great

jonas’, just talking about it

To be honest, I'd not be against removing the restriction of Last anyway.

yes

other systems allow it, too

and it’s very useful

I often find myself noticing only one message too late that I want to fix something

ralphm, same.

most clients implementing LME totally allow the not-last case in receiving mode too

I edit prior messages all the time

For typos

And code pastes

yeah

(which for some reason also need fixing)

I still need to right that poezio plugin to avoid me writing the <replace/> thing by hand

``` <unreads> <unread jid='romeo@shakespeare.lit' read-id='onuheuhoeu', unread-count='3'/> <unread jid='juliet@shakespeare.lit' read-id='koeunhth29', unread-count='43'/> </unreads> ```

snippet from Bind 2 ^

Tobias, raise of hand

hand raised

jonas’, he’s raising

is it possible to get the stream url ? and if possible set it in the MUC status ?

edhelas, it's in the notes

but i'll put it in the subject line

https://cs.co/rudy

edhelas, ^

edhelas, https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_23#A.2FV

XMPP Summit discussion - Collab Meeting Notes @ https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/XMPP_Summit_2019_Day1 - A/V https://cs.co/rudy

oh, « Credentials: »

there are no credentials needed for that URL

ok I'm in but I can't hear anyone

edhelas, zero audio or just too quiet?

zero audio

trying on chrome

same

edhelas, it’s lunch now

lunchification!

gonna find something to eat, too

edhelas, when I’m back, we can try if we can hear each other at least, maybe

sure, I'll not participate, just listen

or by chat

ok, I just needed to connect audio

I can hear you now :)

Ge0rG, maybe that’s the same issue you’re having, did you hit that "connect audio" button?

jonas’, only me.

ah

will probably more active in 15 minutes

and two Ge0rGs and one edhelas in the webex

and still no video

perfect...the A/V link has some certificate issues

aha?

jonas’, see my video?

no

fancy feedback

turn your mic of, Tobias :D

I see a spinner for a short amount of time and then a placeholder :(

closed the tab

but audio/video from firefox on mac seems to work

hm

I’ll give chromium another shot, but it didn’t even recognize my webcam ✏

no luck

do you get my video?

didn't notice it..try again?

I have it enabled right now

so I take that as a "no"

yeah

unrelatedly, it appears that my imap client is stuck in a reconnect loop

that at least explains why it’s taking so much cpu

Hey, how to join via WebEx?

lucky, https://cs.co/rudy

thx jonas’

wow nice stream :)

So I tried to join again, multiple times, but it didn't quite work out with Firefox audio. Now I'm successfully hearing noise after calling in.

noise as in people?

and calling in as with phone?

jonas’: yes and yes

isn’t that going to be expensive?

jonas’: there is a German WebEx call-in number, so it's covered by my flat

oh okay

the only one it shows to me in the UI is beglium

you just need to know where to click

jonas’: "I will call" --> "Show international phone numbers" or somesuch

ah fun

I didn't get an account when messaging the summit mailing list

account for what?

For the wiki, so that I can register for the summit

kingu, regarding wifi?

Possibly also for wifi, though it seemed being let into the building was the showstopper

kingu: I can make you a wiki account, but not a wifi account. All I need is a CamelCase username and your email, via PM or in public, whatever suits you

kingu: are you outside now?

is something on-topic going on? because audio is way too low level to get anything

No.

kingu: I think we can get you in if you're at the right building ✏

kingu: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3971639076 - there's a doorbell thing

i want photos

or something

a video stream?

yeah

but that doesn’t work

Thank you for buying Cisco.

https://cerdale.zash.se/upload/WQ8pqBye4WtTt3ic/D13AZgkYRTSUcq4OTi0EvQ.jpg

you can order them on shop.xmpp.org ?

apparently I didn’t buy enough cisco: > Video is not currently available due to low bandwidth or local computer conditions (such as CPU or RAM use). Video will resume automatically when conditions improve.

jonas’: for the other phone numbers, you need to leave the conf and select the option from "Connect Audio"

Ge0rG, the other phone numbers won’t get me video ✏

audio works fine here

jonas’: ah.

a bit quiet, but that’s probably the input material

I just must not hit play on my audio player, otherwise I’ll be deaf.

goffi did you already talked about MUC Avatars, if yes, is it about https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/muc-avatars.html ?

edhelas: yes we did quickly, we went to the conclusion that it must be used with PEP (PEP from the MUC room jid)

Link Mauve: will do a PR on XEP-0045 about that

Link Mauve will do a PR on XEP-0045 about that

ok

I'm really interested about 2FA in XMPP and would be open to implement it in Movim :)

edhelas: are you following the stream ?

edhelas, when you want something you say "reposted" (said out loud) in the physical room, ping Tobias :)

goffi I am but I cannot talk where I am

ok

jonas’ okay, thanks

kingu: I'm kind of confused. Are you interested in joining the XSF summit, that started earlier today?

For anyone interested in buying the new XMPP hoodies, please go to xmpp:hoodies@muc.xmpp.org?join.

for 2FA what I miss is the setup project through XMPP, Tobias can you ask if it's planned and how they implemented that ? should we use ad-hoc to return the QR-Code for Google Authenticator for example ?

s/project/process/

Tobias, raise hand

done

thanks

Tobias, raise hand again

done

Zash, could that be used for providing multiple SCRAM mechanisms?

Link Mauve: wat

The SASL2 thing.

Why can't you already?

(yeah that involves thinking a bit)

Link Mauve, SASL can already provide multiple mechanisms, not?

don’t make me laugh, I have a cold!!k

So, before authentication you can’t know who is going to authenticate.

If you provide multiple SCRAM mechanisms, say SCRAM-SHA-1 and SCRAM-SHA-256, the user could pick any.

While they only have one stored.

ah...true

Is there a failure+try this instead?

you mean where different users have different SASL mechanisms available to them

For instance yeah, without mandatory password changes you will have a transition period when upgrading from one mechanism to another.

A per-user transition period.

Link Mauve, I don’t think that works safely unless the server can convincinly fake that it supported the first mechansim you tried (because user enumeration)

and even then it’s probably not safe

it would have to make the client do both mechansims while convincinly faking that it knows the right values, which is not something you can do in SCRAM

where does SASL2 save a roundtrip, by the way?

jonas’, ask dwd

I was hoping someone here knows so that I don’t have to disturb the physical room :)

because it’s probably obvious and I’m just missing it because I haven’t read the spec closely

Is someone talking to kingu privately? I'm not getting responses. We're happy for him to join us at Cisco's.

jonas’: ICYMI, the answer is that SASL2 doesn't require a stream restart

I don’t know what "ICYMI", but the question has been adequately answered :)

Feels like a missing oppourtinity if Bind2 would require SASL2…

In Case You Missed It

flow: not really clear to me why

ralphm, why it is a missed opportunity? Because it prevents ppl from implementing bind2 standalone, while I don't see an argument for Bind2 to require SASL2

who’s the person with the deep voice discussing with kev on unreads?

jonas’, MattJ I think

Yes

flow: deployment of this stuff might take a while. I think requiring them together makes this less painful.

very different from what I imagined your voice to be, MattJ (not that I can accurately describe how I imagine a voice)

ralphm, I don't think I aggree. In fact I think it increases the implementation burden if ppl not only need to implement Bind2 but also SASL2

jonas’, it's probably very different to how I imagine it too

MattJ, ha

jonas’, I am pretty sure MattJ had a differnt voice 2 years ago

ralphm, especially since it is trival to make Bind2 and SASL2 work independently from each other

I tend to agree with flow

jonas’, always good to know that there are people who also share that view. I had the impression that the majority of the room's participants did not listen/care

are you tehre?

jonas’, me, yes :)

ah, I didn’t see the hand signals

FYI https://docs.ejabberd.im/developer/ejabberd-api/oauth/

jonas’, there where none :)

oh

I thought I heard "raise hand who..."

and nobody raised their hand (except me, but I was talked out of it)

hm

I’m not sure how that entanglement would look like

and I’m not sure I like to mix post-auth stuff with my SASL layer

sometimes I wish the had a way to issue opinion polls

beside the memberbot voting

Agree

flow, https://github.com/horazont/councilbot ?

but for all members? :)

jonas’, something like that, yes

Holger, FYI, your laptop screen is clearly visible

where?

(is anyone getting video from the webex?)

jonas’, we have monitors in the room, which usually show the video stream that also remote participants see

(if it works for premote participants that is)

I might be able to join the discussion tomorrow

I just tried with the webex app on my phone, and that worked.

Earlier tried with Chrome and that worked, too

I wonder whether it’s something on my end of things or something which makes it break outside cisco networks

Anyone had any experience with https://www.loomio.org/ ?

I used cellular

jonas’, I can see video (can't join the meeting but I tried before)

No sound though

guess it was on my side

Seems there is a Framasoft-hosted instance, I created a group for testing: https://framavox.org/invitations/fa3fea646403ff6fd66e

the log messages are sure amusing though: [1193] [14:28:54.641] [CMSC] [pb.api.min.v3.js:262] MediaMgr.sendToRemoteDesc: peerId= 7 description: type= offer sdp= v=0 o=mozilla...THIS_IS_SDPARTA-64.0 5081984236588329942 0 IN IP4 0.0.0.0

"THIS IS SDPARTA"

> AbortError: The fetching process for the media resource was aborted by the user agent at the user's request.

ok, this looks like an error in my browser

or rather its configuration

*sigh*

jonas’: adblocker?

sure

but ublock doesn’t make issues otherwise

disabled that and noscript stuff

MattJ, had to disable ublock

did that, but that didn’t help

that did the trick for me

jonas’: it sounds like you are typing.

ah sorry

I reload the page and it forgets I wanted to be muted

Didn't you know the web is stateless?

nice, you find firefox bugs where this is simply a bug in firefox

which magically disappears in another version

so the error message isn’t quite precise at least

alright, I give up

Tobias were you able to ask the question, I missed the stream for a couple of minutes

edhelas, Sorry, what question?

ah..just seeing it

i think there's a XEP for that

edhelas, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0400.html is this what you’re looking for?

perfect ! indeed

edhelas, according to dave you may want to read XEPs 388 and XEPs 400

So what's the current topic?

Ge0rG, coffee break

Ge0rG, still break

Ah.

we’ll get to compliance suites afterwards, I guess?

XEP-0404: Session Break Management

all hands up

pause ended

Damn. I just realized I didn't finish writing my standards@ mail about the @id proposal.

Tobias, raise hand

done

jonas’ means http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2018-02-12/#16:14:23 ✏

yes

I do

what about having clients already generating unique ids having something in their disco saying that they do it, and let the server rewrite the ids for clients that don’t do it?

RIP webex

"Oops"

I'm still "hearing" audio over the phone, but the quality is... sub-par

Can you still hear us?

Okay we back bois

Ok

re deliberate duplication: With my black hat on, I can't really make that assumption. I think that from the stated business rules, some trusted entity (read: each server and each MUC / MIX) will have to keep a list of "known" @id values for a sufficiently long time to reject duplicates.

Tobias: ^

Tobias, this time really my hand

dwd, where is that HMAC id generation described? some mail to standards ML?

Tobias: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2018-02-12/#16:14:23

Tobias, http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/2018-02-12/#16:19:00

yay...chat logs :)

Tobias, once more my hadn

after that point

it’s related to the IQ question

at least the chat logs don't randomly change the web archive URL

or rather the IQ point raised by flow

jonas’, it's up

\o/

Ge0rG, there are several things discussed there. how are these ids defined now?

is it hmac(secret=streamid, content=session management counter)?

Tobias: yeah. I think the HMAC(stream-id, stanza counter) idea was brought up to make it impossible for other entities to predict the @id

Tobias, yes

ta

It'll be lovely if you have enqueued a message into SM, but then your stream breaks down, you can't resume and you need to reconnect and start from scratch

yes

I mean, I’d probably introduce an id attribute to my StanzaToken class (which is used to track a stanza through the outbound queue) and allow converting the StanzaToken to a string implicitly once an ID was assigned to the stanza.

(and raise otherwise)

that would get safe behaviour without having to explicitly handle dependencies

I become more and more sceptical of the HMAC approach…

flow, I'm going the other direction. It seems more and more appealing, after all the id mess we currently have

There is no perfect solution, but this one seems to have pretty good properties

jonas’: does the supporting server need to keep a mapping of incoming-ids to proper-ids, and rewrite all id references on the s2s boundary?

MattJ, I maybe missing something about the exact nature of the id mess

I am really worried about the sequence of the stanza's with HMAC / the send queue, it feels very wobly (seen too many race conditions)

Ge0rG, I’d say we don’t do rewrites and let things break

winfried: let the send queue class return the generated id when you enqueue a stanza

winfried, you need to have a strict ordering on your stream for stream management anyways

if you have a race there, the stanza ID thing will make it more apparent, but you need to fix it anyways

jonas’: fair point, "lets brake broken clients big way" ;-)

FWIW, I don't know what happened to the WebEx camera feed.

Ge0rG, racy, because I want to setup the listener before enquing

I think we should have the summit chat displayed on a screen, just like the cameras (fail to correctly) focus people speaking

but now I have to wait for the enque to get the id for the listener

flow: pass the listener (not a filter) to the sendMessage() function

I do

but yeah, it would work with a bigger lock, but you increase your critical section touhg

flow: "critical section" reminds me of that fugly smack4 race condition bug where it's interleaving multiple stanzas with each other.

I could get along with the HMAC thing if we wouldn't use the sm height

flow: with your counterproposal being?

flow, I think we moved from SM to a simple per-client counter

Ge0rG, dunno, add the integer into the stanza as extension element?

Tobias, hand

up

I'm really against using a long-term client identifier for the HMAC

MattJ, ok, not sure if I understand, I'll ask you to explain it later to me (preferably in person)

Ge0rG, everyone is

MattJ, huh, I thought we agreed that a per-client counter is not workable?

jonas’: phew. My audio is really garbled, so I'm only trying to connect puzzle pieces

jonas’, did we?

You highlighted it as a potential issue, I don't think we concluded that made it unusable?

MattJ, well, you’d have to persist a counter reliably. on each stanza sent/acked. or you transfer it on login, but hm.

I mean, in the end, you still have to deal with broken reconnects because you can’t know for sure what arrived before resuming

and then you’d have to recalculate IDs of queued stanzas

I lean towards server assigned IDs…

Not in the per-client, right?

MattJ, in the per-client case, too

I think

flow: what's wrong with server-assigned client-predictable HMAC ids?

jonas’, why would the id change between reconnects? (unless you reorder stanzas)

Errors and iq replies needing to be excluded from the counter thing is weird.

Zash, right

I could be wrong but all aruments against are nil. Could someone please make wiki page listing the pros and cons of the different approaches?

MattJ, when stream management is not resumable

then it’s tricky

jonas’, stream management is not involved with a per-client id

MattJ, but the ID is effectively a cross-stream stanza counter

isn’t it?

stream id, sm id, client id, so many ids!

I’m too distracted by the room audio, let’s take this to a wiki or discussion later, I think that’s better.

Ge0rG, nothing I guess, please write a strawman

flow, you were arguing against them a second ago

jonas’, I don't think I did, I was arguing against client-generated server-verifyable IDs using the SM height I think

flow, server-generated client-predictable HMAC-IDs would do the same

except that the client doesn’t *have* to put it in the @id, the server will do it if it’s missing

the best thing about HMAC-IDs is that it will finally make both clients and servers fix their SM counters

ok, I think I have an idea how entities can still generate server verifyable unique IDs at the same time they do generate the IDs right now

because these are still getting desynced

flow: by pulling a queue number for each stanza?

Ge0rG, no

Tobias, hand

up

is there any open source up-to-date server implementation of MIX?

Tobias, down

there is an out of date one for openfire

jonas’, alright

and thank you very much for doing the remote hands here :)

yes I know for OpenFire, that's why I've specified "up-to-date" ;)

I think daniel triggered a partial implementation in ejabberd

no independant component? It would help spread it if we are not tied to a server.

goffi, unfortunately the design of MIX requires server support on the user's account

Maybe it could be done with component delegation, not sure

MattJ: for which reason (haven't checked the spec for a while)

yes I was about saying that, or privileged entity

goffi, mainly because your server needs to know which MIXes you joined

similar to what PAM does for PubSub

ok, it's probably doable with delegation then.

I would love to give it a try if I had time, but I've not :'(

keep in mind that MIX is not only to replace MUC for some people

my goal is to publish Atom items into MIX nodes

maybe next to simple messages

0060 is also a bit like 0045 :p

Zash, scoped = when referencing via ID you are actually referencing sender bare JID + that ID

0333, 0367 and 0372 won't scope by sender JID in MUCs

0184 neither

Tobias, hand please

luckily, sending 0184 into a MUC is madness

up

It's scoped on full JID now tho?

i understood kev that he meant on bare

that isn’t correct in MUC

bare JID scoping is acceptable outside of MUCs, because if a user attacks their own clients, it's still clearly scoped.

Secretary: Jonas owes Tobias a new hand

<scope jid="room@host/nick"/>

MUX

Zash wathavyoudone

MUC with MIX protocol?

Tobias, raise hand please

up

Zash, what about MIC?

M[AOEU][CKX]

jonas’: thank you so much for saying this!

where's my "told you so" stamp? :D

Ge0rG, you’re welcome ;-)

jonas’, could you make sure that your point is mentioned in the etherpad mentioned in the subject? I missed some of it

okay

thanks

https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2016-August/031315.html §2c

Tobias, raise hand

jonas’' audio is much better than the conference room's.

yeah, the conference rooms audio could be better

would be much better already with more bits/s

but a bit of amplification before compression would probably also be good

Train leaves in 10min

When do we have to be at the thon again?

taxis are leaving at 19:30

winfried: thank you

MattJ: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/749

Kev: thanks!

once I’ve fully recovered from my cold, I’ll address the editor backlog; most likely saturday or sunday

Where is the dinner?

kingu: did you register?

jonas’: Sorry I forgot the version block.

Kev, you have a day or two to fix it, otherwise I’ll just add it

Still no e-mail, (unless I am missing it). I can pay for my dinner, and I wanted the wiki account because that is one place where I might have something to contribute

jonas’: Already fixed it.

Kev, ah, ok

I have one in spam called "CONFIDENTIEL", and one no topic from "Kevinjonathan"

kingu: I am not sure if your expectations meet the intended use of the wiki, but please feel free to join us for dinner, if you are paying for yourself.

We did not record an order for you though

So you will probably be ordering a la carte

This is the restaurant: L’Auberge Bretonne (Brusselsesteenweg 670, 3090 OVERIJSE)

debacle, flow:

geo:50.8392773,4.3709277

Holger, Maison du Luxembourg?

sounds expensive…

wait, that is your hotel, right?

https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Minutes_of_the_2019_Summit:_Day_one here we go. Feel free to extend and correct things i forgot or got wrong.

flow: Yes.

Little bit too far away for me, still ill.

All the best, very happy that you are working away on problems that others take the easy road on.

kingu: will you join us at Cisco tomorrow? If not, do come say hi at FOSDEM!

Tobias: thanks!

Holger, that is your hotel?

debacle: Yeah.

debacle, Holger, I will go with Daniel and the others to the Restaurant. Let's go tomorrow together.

Taxis are arriving shortly! Please make your way to the Thon EU hotel lobby if you're intended to be on one.

coming down

Guus: I will either volunteer at FOSDEM or come see you at Cisco. Thank you for your hospitality :)))

Brusselsesteenweg 670, 3090 Overijse

Guus: hebben we iedereen?

Eh. Do we have everyone?

Yup

I'm in the last cab

Almost there

Have a good night my boys!