XMPP Summit - 2019-02-01

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  159. Ge0rG

    Good morning. Did everyone have a great party last night, or is Summit resuming the tech talks? :D

  160. Seve/SouL


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  162. pep.


  163. jjrh

    Beh train stopped

  164. mathieui

    everyone had a great snow-delayed train to diegem

  165. jjrh

    The one time on this trip I leave to make it exactly on time and not early is the day there is a delay

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  171. MattJ

    jjrh, I think our train passed it on the way :)

  172. jjrh


  173. jjrh

    Almost there now

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  176. alameyo

    i have 20 mina to next train :(

  177. pep.

    Pad is still at https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/XMPP_Summit_2019_Day1 today!

  178. Tobias

    yeah...let's use that

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  180. Tobias

    also, I'd be nice if there was more contribution on the minutes

  181. mathieui

    Ge0rG, we’re starting

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  183. Tobias

    anyone needing A/V

  184. Tobias


  185. jonas’

    I can’t attend remotely this time

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  188. jonas’

    but Ge0rG might want to listen in?

  189. Zash

    pep. talks about Moved

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  196. Seve/SouL

    Honestly it would be cool to at least being able to listen the discussion (maybe for next year), because I could listen to it but not participate

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  198. Guus

    SouL, i think you _can_ listen today

  199. Guus

    or at least, it is technically possible for us to provide you with a stream.

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  205. ralphm

    Daniel: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0068.html#approach-fieldnames

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  208. Zash

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0077.html#usecases-cancel https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0077.html#example-16

  209. Link Mauve

    Hey, you are editing the pad both at the bottom and at the top.

  210. mathieui

    I did at the top since Tobias added day2 at the top

  211. Tobias

    i thought reading it top to bottom, folks would notice it :)

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  215. Ge0rG

    I left my earpiece at home, so I can't listen in without offending the cow-orkers

  216. pep.

    Ge0rG, takeaways for <moved/> is, "offline servers" support as a separate XEP, not in the scope of our first draft. I think it's reasonable. We can still support scheduled shutdowns

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  218. Ge0rG

    pep.: any insights on the best protocol to use for embedding <moved/>? PEP? Messages? Presence? All of the above?

  219. Ge0rG

    I've heard there are unmaintained servers without persistent PEP

  220. Ge0rG

    Oh, also PEP access model: public --> potential for spam; roster --> your contacts lose access once one of the clients has completed the "moved" game

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  222. pep.

    <error type='cancel'><gone/></error>

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  225. pep.

    And we'd have a mechanism (IBR?) to be able to set the tombstone on your account

  226. pep.

    So the old server can even only send that gone error to your contacts

  227. Ge0rG

    so this won't work on today's unmaintained servers, but only on tomorrow's ones, which support moved?

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  230. pep.

    Indeed. But as you said that doesn't work on today's server without persistent PEP

  231. jonas’

    today’s servers have persistent pep

  232. jonas’


  233. Ge0rG

    pep.: backward compatibility is the toughest piece of any protocol

  234. Ge0rG

    jonas’: you might be biased by only looking at the *popular* servers.

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  236. pep.

    Ge0rG, ok, so I still don't know how to answer that.

  237. pep.

    And I guess you don't either

  238. pep.

    I guess we can have both PEP and <gone/> tbh

  239. Ge0rG

    pep.: maybe a <message><moved> to all contacts in addition?

  240. Zash

    <message to=everyone type=chat><moved to="newjid"/><body>Hey, I'm moving to a new account, please add me there: newjid</body></message>

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  242. pep.

    yeah backwards compatibility through natural languages in <body/>

  243. Ge0rG

    Zash: https://op-co.de/tmp/xep-0283.html#message

  244. Ge0rG

    pep.: ^

  245. Zash

    Ge0rG: Exactly :)

  246. Ge0rG

    > The <body/> MUST NOT contain information unrelated to the account move. This allows a receiving client that understands the <moved/> element to discard the <body/> and use an appropriate internal presentation format.

  247. pep.

    heh, TIL of that document

  248. Ge0rG

    pep.: ouch. sorry. Should have mentioned that earlier.

  249. Ge0rG

    I've stopped short of introducing PEP

  250. Ge0rG

    It's not even git-commited yet, just a stash in my $HOME

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  253. Zash

    Delay tags can/are scoped by the delaying entity

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  256. edhelas

    hello people

  257. edhelas

    sorry to ask again, what is the url of the webex meeting already ?

  258. jonas’

    edhelas, https://cs.co/rudy maybe?

  259. jonas’

    I don’t know for sure, I’m not listening in today

  260. Ge0rG

    yes, https://cs.co/rudy works

  261. Ge0rG

    it even had an XML snapshot slide a bit back

  262. edhelas

    okay :) I'm in, but no video

  263. edhelas

    let's try on chrome

  264. Ge0rG

    edhelas: there is no video, AFAICS

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  266. edhelas

    oh ok

  267. Ge0rG

    but maybe there is and my firefox is too old

  268. ralphm

    Huh? Three is

  269. ralphm


  270. edhelas

    tried with chrome/firefox, no video

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  272. ralphm


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  274. edhelas

    oh actually I have the video stream of goffi now :)

  275. edhelas

    so it's definitly an issue with the cameras in the room

  276. MattJ

    Kev, room in the schedule for a very brief demo from me?

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  278. edhelas

    if there's still room left I can also do a demo :p

  279. edhelas

    would it be possible to list Moya on the XMPP website ?

  280. MattJ

    edhelas, I think you can submit a PR

  281. MattJ

    or Daniel :)

  282. Daniel

    i'm just a consultant/contractor for Moya. I don’t have decision power

  283. edhelas

    can you share the screen ?

  284. Daniel

    oh never mind. i missunderstood that question

  285. pep.

    edhelas, it's supposed to be

  286. Ge0rG

    I can't see anything.

  287. pep.

    ralphm, ^

  288. Ge0rG

    audio works, but no video/screen sharing

  289. MattJ

    Ge0rG, https://jmp.chat/

  290. Ge0rG

    MattJ: I never completed their onboarding, so I wanted to see it in action at least remotely.

  291. Ge0rG

    Daniel's presentation worked.

  292. edhelas

    yes I can confirm, like Ge0rG

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  296. ossguy


  297. Ge0rG

    ossguy: do you happen to have a video of what you've shown right now?

  298. ossguy

    yes, I did a similar demo at DebConf that was recorded - let me get you the link a minute...

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  300. ossguy

    Ge0rG: it starts at 29:40 in https://saimei.ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/debian-meetings/2017/debconf17/live-demos.vp8.webm

  301. ossguy

    (not sure if there's an easy way to add that time offset as a # thing in the URL)

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  304. Ge0rG

    ossguy: thanks, I'll watch it when I'm off my metered mobile connection.

  305. ossguy

    you're very welcome

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  307. Ge0rG


  308. edhelas

    VIDEO §§§

  309. edhelas

    annndd it's gone

  310. mathieui

    blame Link Mauve

  311. Ge0rG

    Whatever you guys did, do it again please.

  312. edhelas

    the video only turns on when Link Mauve is filmed

  313. Zash

    works now?

  314. mathieui

    note how he made his "slides" in tmux tabs

  315. Ge0rG

    We had Link Mauve's screen, then Link Mauve's face, and now it's gone again

  316. edhelas

    > Video is not currently available due to low bandwidth or local computer conditions (such as CPU or RAM use). Video will resume automatically when conditions improve.

  317. Ge0rG

    no video any more

  318. edhelas

    I'm sure I have the bandwidth for it

  319. mathieui

    edhelas, rust is too powerful for your computer

  320. Zash

    "worksforme" / ralphm

  321. pep.


  322. edhelas

    mathieui :(

  323. jjrh

    https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_23#Show-and-tell has some of the links

  324. ralphm

    Sorry people, I don't know why it (sometimes?) doesn't work for you, but I've been constantly connected to the stream on my laptop, too, and see no issues there.

  325. edhelas

    ralphm you're stealling all our bandwidth !

  326. Ge0rG

    There is *at least* one writer thread *cough*cough*

  327. edhelas

    XEP-xxxx: Sextoys over XMPP

  328. Zash

    Relevant https://media.ccc.de/v/35c3-9523-internet_of_dongs

  329. edhelas

    I'm actually curious to know more about this integration in sextoys, they actually have a chip that can talk XMPP inside the object ?

  330. mathieui

    edhelas, probably inside a smartphone app

  331. mathieui

    Zash, that talk was quite disappointing

  332. intosi

    At one EuroOSCON many moons ago, we had a lengthy chat with someone using (amonst other open tech) XMPP for teledildonics.

  333. edhelas

    and bluetooth on the other end

  334. goffi

    or inside a body

  335. edhelas

    soon pacemakers powered by XMPP, better not miss a stanza there

  336. ralphm

    edhelas: possibly related too: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0132.html

  337. mathieui

    poezio connection code inside pacemakers

  338. pep.

    please no

  339. pep.

    *reconnecting* *reconnecting* *reconnecting* *oops*

  340. intosi

    ralphm: that XEP even uses <gone/> ;)

  341. ralphm


  342. mathieui

    (don’t forget to edit your presentation description in minutes if you think it doesn’t do you justice)

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  350. flow


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  352. edhelas

    that's a nice flow

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  359. flow

    TIL teledildonics

  360. Seve/SouL


  361. jonas’


  362. jonas’


  363. Seve/SouL

    Same here

  364. flow

    jonas’: 12:23:09 intosi> At one EuroOSCON many moons ago, we had a lengthy chat with someone using (amonst other open tech) XMPP for teledildonics.

  365. Zash

    Ge0rG: Anything to say about xmpp developer foundation or somesuch?

  366. Daniel


  367. Ge0rG

    Zash: I'm not the right person for that. But I've heard somebody wanted to found a JSF

  368. Zash

    Ge0rG: JSF vs XDF - FIGHT!

  369. flow

    why does it always have to be a vs. and not simply live and let live ;)

  370. vanitasvitae

    flow: its about the name

  371. flow

    vanitasvitae, ahh, if this is the biggest issue, i am sure we can find something everyone is unhappy with

  372. debacle

    For everybody interested in IoT, please remember, that there is a MUC, that needs more participants and more discussion: xmpp:iot@muc.xmpp.org?join

  373. Seve/SouL


  374. vanitasvitae

    Lets name the developer foundation matrix.org

  375. jonas’

    flow, I’m also sure we can come up with an acronym with is massively misleading

  376. jonas’

    ah, vanitasvitae did it already

  377. vanitasvitae

    You're welcome :)

  378. jonas’

    Massive Advancement Towards Rapid Integration of XMPP

  379. jonas’

    or something

  380. vanitasvitae


  381. vanitasvitae


  382. vanitasvitae


  383. mathieui

    jonas’, Massive Advancement Towards Rapid Integration of XMPP. Openly Regulated Guidelines

  384. debacle

    s/Integr/Implement/ ?

  385. jonas’

    debacle, !

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  387. edhelas

    Planner Jabber is actually available on XMPP Pubsub https://nl.movim.eu/?node/news.movim.eu/PlanetJabber :) #eatyourownfood

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  389. Ge0rG

    jonas’: I thought MATRIX is Monolithic Awfully Trendy Re-Invention of XMPP (courtesy of debacle)

  390. jonas’

    that’s the other Matrix

  391. vanitasvitae

    Sprint XYZ - presented by the XSF and XDF!

  392. Ge0rG

    Speaking of marketing... "We bring the Pee into XMPP"

  393. flow

    "Monolithic Awfully Trendy Re-Invention of XMPP" ← love it

  394. vanitasvitae

    Re planetjabber: it still contains philosophy posts

  395. mathieui

    Ge0rG, please stay away from public relations in any form

  396. Zash

    https://www.ag-software.net/matrix-xmpp-sdk/ this Matrix?

  397. pep.

    That's the channel we've been idling in fwiw, xmpp:jsf@chat.cluxia.eu?join - jsf is probably not the name, and xdf came afterwards.

  398. Ge0rG

    there is precedent for a Jabber®-named organization, and there is precedent for the JSF

  399. Ge0rG

    And if we keep to the notion of "Jabber" being the federated IM network, a JSF kinda makes sense

  400. singpolyma

    Merry Band of Jabberers

  401. Zash

    pep.: look up

  402. vanitasvitae

    Just do a poll regarding the name

  403. vanitasvitae

    There is a xep for that, right?

  404. Ge0rG

    Link Mauve is very quiet on the audio stream

  405. Ge0rG

    There is also an ongoing effort to report spam-forwarding IBR servers to the admins and to the respective ISPs, to get them shut down

  406. Ge0rG


  407. flow

    Ge0rG has maaaany friends

  408. Ge0rG

    but they all only speak Russian :(

  409. flow

    Ge0rG, I thought you too (at least a bit)?

  410. ralphm

    vanitasvitae: as I said, Planet Jabber is about People Doing Jabber/XMPP stuff. It is not about Posts About Jabber/XMPP.

  411. flow

    ralphm, I think there is maybe a desire to change that

  412. Ge0rG

    99.9% of current spam can be blocked by some easy heuristics and blocking of URLs from non-subscribers

  413. ralphm

    flow: there's also Planet Jabber News which includes software update feeds

  414. Ge0rG

    if the audio wasn't so bad, I'd contribute some insights too

  415. Ge0rG

    Maybe we can pay the spammers *more* to not send any spam any more! 😁

  416. Seve/SouL


  417. Zash

    What could go wrong

  418. Ge0rG

    Zash: Cobras

  419. pep.

    We need to hire a hitman

  420. Seve/SouL

    Thanks for explaining MattJ

  421. flow

    Hmm, the discussion is dereailed it appears, was interersting to hear what Link Mauve explained, but right now I don't know where we are heading to

  422. pep.

    Spammers might be listening in this room, we need not to reveal our secrets

  423. Ge0rG

    *raise hand* my spam solution isn't blocking all messages from foreigners

  424. Tobias

    Ge0rG, alright...will proxy it

  425. Daniel

    flow, i think a lot of people don’t know how spammers or spim work. so getting everyone on the same page (ie how does the threat vector look like exactly) is certainly valuable

  426. dwd

    pep. Good point. Maybe we should lay some false trails. How about I suggest that the spammers are easy to spot because they use plaintext whereas everyone else uses XHTML-IM?

  427. Tobias

    Ge0rG, Link Mauve is explaining things in more detail

  428. Ge0rG

    Tobias: Link Mauve is very quiet, so I'm missing out random fragments

  429. pep.

    dwd, sounds good to me

  430. flow

    Daniel, true, but given the limited time I think it would be benficial to focus on what actually works regarding spam prevention

  431. Ge0rG raises hand

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  433. dwd

    pep., Maybe a XEP that has a new element: <this-is-not-a-spam xmlns='urn:xmpp:spam:0'/> that we pretend we check for?

  434. Tobias

    Ge0rG, next time i'll bring a megaphone

  435. Daniel

    right. but to work out the solutions it is importants to understand how the problem actually looks like

  436. flow

    Ge0rG, you need to tell Tobias to raise his hand for you :->

  437. Daniel

    for example the information that there are only ~3 spamming services is interesting

  438. Tobias

    Ge0rG, it's up

  439. Daniel

    also the information that spammers can read

  440. Daniel

    which apparently people weren’t aware of

  441. Tobias

    Ge0rG, are you on audio? if not just write what you want proxied

  442. Ge0rG

    Tobias: I'm on audio, just need to unmute myself and surprise you all with my voice

  443. Tobias


  444. intosi

    We could ask spimmers to use https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0076.html

  445. Ge0rG

    https://github.com/JabberSPAM/blacklist re what Link Mauve is saying

  446. Tobias

    Ge0rG, PING

  447. Seve/SouL

    Yes Ge0rG

  448. flow

    So according to https://github.com/JabberSPAM/blacklist/blob/master/blacklist.txt, the current size of the problematic services is 1

  449. flow

    Doesn't look so bad

  450. Guus


  451. Daniel

    flow, there is a due processes to get on that list and off that list

  452. Daniel

    quite a few servers are about to get on that list

  453. pep.

    (which is what the document explains)

  454. Daniel

    it just hasn’t happened yet

  455. flow

    ahh, ok

  456. Ge0rG

    messages bots domain ---------- ---------- ------------------------------------ 4307 3171 bunkertor.org 1984 628 jabber.cd 1950 1169 paranoid.scarab.name 1351 1044 darkengine.biz 1233 364 amtserver.com 1064 254 anyproxy.net 1061 251 securejabber.me 837 479 unstable.nl 771 258 biniou.net 676 267 default.rs

  457. Daniel

    but they are close to being escalated

  458. flo has joined

  459. Guus

    of my last 10 spam messages, 2 are on this list.

  460. jonas’

    if Ge0rG isn’t DoS’d out of the internet first

  461. pep.

    jonas’, too late?

  462. mathieui

    thanks Guus

  463. mathieui


  464. intosi

    I've seen spam from domains on this list as well.

  465. mathieui

    (but thanks Guus for summit organization anyway I guess)

  466. Guus

    You're welcome 🙂

  467. Ge0rG

    Some clients will block incoming messages/subscription requests until a captcha is solved

  468. Ge0rG

    Like https://github.com/redsolution/xabber-android/issues/851

  469. Tobias

    In case people remember stuff from the spam discussion that's missing on https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/XMPP_Summit_2019_Day1 , please add it

  470. Ge0rG

    With the current level of sophistication of the spammers, there is NO NEED for captchas

  471. intosi

    Ge0rG: interesting observation.

  472. Ge0rG

    Tobias: *raises hand* sometimes spam accounts are created, then not logging in for multiple weeks, then wake up and spam

  473. Daniel


  474. mathieui

    often, yes

  475. Daniel

    but i don’t think it matters to the pattern of suddenly sending messages to 1000s of people

  476. Tobias

    Ge0rG, it's up

  477. mathieui


  478. Daniel

    that pattern should be blocked regardless of how old the account is

  479. singpolyma has joined

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  481. Ge0rG

    less-than-secret example from the firewall: ``` # outgoing messages to non-contacts need to be full-body-searched. KIND: message TYPE: chat|normal|headline NOT SUBSCRIBED? JUMP_CHAIN=user/bodycheck ```

  482. Ge0rG

    from a fast skim of the rules, the only thing that's not coming from the message is the mutual subscription status

  483. Tobias

    maybe the Rspamd protocol documentation can also provide some helpful input

  484. singpolyma

    so the antispam server doesn't need the whole roster, just a boolean basically about the relationship between from and to

  485. Zash


  486. Tobias

    maybe the Rspamd protocol documentation can also provide some helpful input https://www.rspamd.com/doc/architecture/protocol.html

  487. Ge0rG

    Zash: the relevant question is: did the recipient authorize the sender before

  488. singpolyma

    would the blacklist being public be as problematic as the rules? I would think probably not?

  489. Ge0rG

    singpolyma: the blacklist doesn't contain any black magic.

  490. mathieui


  491. Ge0rG

    There are various public blacklists already

  492. flow

    Ge0rG, that sounds like it could be feasiable to just put additional metainformation in the message send to the spam indendification service, versus the spam identification service asking for additional information from the xmpp server

  493. Ge0rG

    I've only created my own one because none of the earlier ones had a due process

  494. Ge0rG

    flow: yes.

  495. Ge0rG

    flow: just a metadata flag

  496. singpolyma

    for sure. due process is a good thing that can help us from becoming like email

  497. Ge0rG

    singpolyma: I wanted to be a _good_ RBL

  498. flow

    Ge0rG, question is, will there be more metadata in the future? Probably, but then we question is "How much?"

  499. Seve/SouL

    Did I hear correctly :)

  500. Ge0rG

    Tobias: jonas’ provided measurements from compression with different flushing aggressivity

  501. Zash


  502. Ge0rG

    jonas’' data on XMPP compression: https://github.com/horazont/aioxmpp/issues/249

  503. Ge0rG

    aioxmpp test suite, sync_flush only (XEP-0138 as written): 40% rx, 20% tx aioxmpp test suite, full_flush after each stanza: 25% rx, 20% tx JabberCat startup (lots of mucs, lots of avatars), full flush after each stanza: 25% rx, 12% tx JabberCat startup (lots of mucs, lots of avatars), sync flush: 36% rx, 12% tx

  504. Ge0rG

    (the percentage being the ratio of bytes saved; tx is from client to server, rx is from server to client)

  505. singpolyma

    so even full flush after every staza could be worth it *if* that is safe in your context

  506. winfried


  507. Ge0rG

    you save 20% of traffic, but add some proper CPU load

  508. Ge0rG

    also RAM

  509. singpolyma

    for sure

  510. Zash

    something something ROI

  511. mathieui

    Ge0rG, which might be something of interest using a smartphone over an edge channel

  512. Zash

    As a server dev, I'm happy avoding the additional memory usage of compression

  513. Ge0rG raises hand: an approach that's maybe worth exploring is a pre-created "official" compression dictionary, containing all the relevant stanzas and namespaces. like http/brotli

  514. Ge0rG

    Tobias: ^

  515. singpolyma

    winfried: is there data on EXI vs compression similar to those numbers above?

  516. Ge0rG

    damn, toolate

  517. Tobias

    Ge0rG, sorry. we moved to the next item

  518. debacle

    Ge0rG in some cases compression actually reduces CPU load, because there is less data to TLS encrypt

  519. Ge0rG

    debacle: I know

  520. Ge0rG

    Is there somebody good at painting? We still need XMPP Compliance Badges

  521. winfried

    singpolyma: some years ago there were some japanese guys, who did metrics on EXI, it worked quite well

  522. Seve/SouL

    Yes! A lot of people!

  523. Seve/SouL

    Somebody writing that donw? Just to know what can we improve in the future for Summits and so on

  524. dwd

    Kev's writing this stuff down, yes.

  525. Ge0rG

    I wish for a working A/V and *especially* better audio, and it would be great if it would work over XMPP

  526. Tobias

    Seve/SouL, see etherpad

  527. alameyo

    https://ctftime.org/writeup/12913 here is kind of compression oracle attack - it was created as hacking challenge but you can get the idea

  528. Seve/SouL

    He has a point though :)

  529. dwd

    Seve/SouL, Who?

  530. Ge0rG

    Video worked and broke down synchronously for me and edhelas, so it must be on Cisco's end

  531. Seve/SouL

    dwd, working on the agenda before Summit (I don't know him unfortunately)

  532. Tobias

    what's at the top of the board?

  533. Zash

    "agenda before reading"

  534. MattJ

    Looks like "AGENDA FUR BY REAPING"

  535. Zash


  536. Tobias

    something in between i bet,...ta

  537. Zash

    Having the agenda prior to the summit so you can read up on XEPs and whatnot

  538. MattJ


  539. Seve/SouL

    I had that experience last year, couldn't have maybe an exact opinion on something

  540. dwd

    That was suggested by Piotr of Erlang Solutions.

  541. Seve/SouL

    Ah I see, thanks dwd

  542. Seve/SouL

    What did happen to think about this information for new people attending?

  543. Zash

    Seve/SouL: What do you mean?

  544. Seve/SouL

    Zash, just curious about if this topic popped up because somebody did something wrong by mistake... Or something like that (Writing how the Summit works, I mean.) Anyway, I may have understood it in a different way, audio is ok but of course not real life.

  545. Zash

    Seve/SouL: No, we want to remember what was done well, so it's not forgotten and can repeated next year

  546. Seve/SouL

    Ok perfect, great

  547. Seve/SouL

    Thank you Zash

  548. Zash

    Seve/SouL: Assuming I understood your question

  549. Bartek has left

  550. flow

    Secretary: Add ProtoXEP SEX to the XSF Summit 2020 agenda

  551. flow

    Secretary: Vote for "ProtoXEP SEX" as agenda item

  552. Zash

    /invite Secretary

  553. flow

    Secretary: Add XEP-1234 as recommended read for the "ProtoXEP SEX" agenda item

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  561. kingu

    What is he selling?

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  573. alameyo

    so anyone, any plans for the rest of the evening?

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  583. Seve/SouL

    A more open

  584. Seve/SouL


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  634. Zash


  635. Link Mauve

    ArchLinux food!

  636. Daniel has left

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  638. alameyo66

    Zash: I would do something

  639. Zash

    Do something? After two days of meeting?

  640. pep.

    ArchLinux food!

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  651. alameyo66

    so far I am improvising, that's the way to do things too

  652. Daniel has left

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  657. jjrh

    I'm up for food or drinks if people are meeting somewhere

  658. alameyo66

    jjrh: I am at some street, let me figure out which one

  659. alameyo66

    Lat 50.84829 Lon 4.35174

  660. goffi

    is there anybody going to delirium tonight?

  661. alameyo66

    goffi: I intend that but a bit later

  662. goffi

    alameyo66: yeah not now, I'm working on my talks anyway, won't go before 20:00 at best.

  663. jjrh

    What's delirium?

  664. goffi

    jjrh: delirium café, where's the opening night is happening

  665. Zash has left

  666. Seve/SouL

    Never been there but I have heard that is quite full

  667. dwd has left

  668. goffi

    yes it is

  669. dwd has joined

  670. goffi

    I don't plan to stay long, but 2 or 3 beers would be nice

  671. jjrh

    Damn 3000 beers to choose from

  672. goffi

    welcome to Belgium ;)

  673. alameyo66

    I am at the quartier du centre

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  701. MattJ

    BTW if anyone is missing a (big) Thinkpad charger, we found one in the Thon hotel lobby and left it at the reception

  702. goffi has joined

  703. mathieui

    not me but I could always do with one more

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  722. Tobias


  723. MattJ


  724. MattJ

    Oh wow, you typed up all the retro + action items too, I was going to do that... so double thanks :)

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  727. Kev


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  733. Tobias

    "Your personal Google+ account is going away on April 2, 2019" oh no. Life will never be the same again.

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  748. Zash


  749. Zash

    Did anyone do a headcount?

  750. alameyo66 has left

  751. Zash

    jonas’: (Re compression) You didn't try the "flush when the to/from attr changes" approach to compression?

  752. Zash

    Felt like there were more than 30 people at peak, but maybe that was just the room layout

  753. ossguy has joined

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  755. ralphm

    dwd: lovely small square clean antique red flowery Dutch wooden storage box

  756. singpolyma has joined

  757. Zash

    Oh no, the minutes pad has an infinite loop

  758. Zash

    ralphm: correct horse battery staple?

  759. Bartek has left

  760. ralphm

    Discussion on the order of adjectives

  761. Zash

    Ah yes, that's got some specific order

  762. Holger

    goffi: We're there right now.

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  770. Guus

    Zash did you just share your password? 😱

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