XMPP Summit - 2023-02-03

  1. Zash

    When do we start?

  2. Link Mauve

    About 10 IIRC.

  3. MattJ

    Yeah, 10

  4. emus


  5. MattJ

    Thilo Molitor, thanks for the extra words about iOS push! It's quite lengthy, and not actually "summit notes" - if it's okay with you, I propose we move it to wiki.xmpp.org and link to it there. We could possibly combine it with the stuff in that text file in the mod_cloud_notify docs.

  6. MattJ

    I think it has some value as a document we can point people to if they want to understand how things work today

  7. ralphm

    Good morning everyone!

  8. egnun

    Good morning!

  9. nicola

    Good morning everyone from Italy! 😊

  10. intosi@ik.nu


  11. emus_at_summit


  12. MattJ

    Done: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Push_notifications

  13. ralphm

    For reference the blog post I wrote back then, which may be outdated: https://ralphm.net/blog/2019/09/09/fastening

  14. Zash


  15. Zash


  16. intosi@ik.nu


  17. singpolyma

    what is not a "full knowledge client" ??

  18. MattJ

    Converse.js for example

  19. MattJ

    In most setups, at least

  20. singpolyma

    Oh, cjs doesn't store an archive? Interesting

  21. Zash

    Is this the same term as "thin client" ?

  22. MattJ

    It does, but it's more of a cache

  23. singpolyma

    ok, makes sense

  24. MattJ

    Compared to e.g. Conversations, which treats your local history as the truth, and MAM is just for syncing to that

  25. singpolyma


  26. Zash

    Is there a Jitsi or other stream?

  27. singpolyma

    Zash: yes

  28. singpolyma


  29. singpolyma

    For collations one thing that is important is to say what things you support the collation of. for example, a client that supports edits but not reactions should be able to get the reaction messages raw not collated (so that fallback bodies can be displayed)

  30. nicola

    Great photo @Zash :-)

  31. Zash

    I'm in it, so didn't take it

  32. nicola

    > I'm in it, so didn't take it I referred to posting here :-)

  33. emus_at_summit

    @all physical summit participants - any objections I publish the images we shot via Fosstodon & Twitter to provide some impressions?

  34. emus_at_summit

    I asked already, twice, but wasn't sure if that was clear

  35. emus_at_summit

    I asked already twice, but wasn't sure if that was clear

  36. MattJ

    I think it was clear, and the one person who opted out kindly took the photo, so I think it's fine :)

  37. singpolyma

    This whole collation thing really feels like a microoptimization to me... what % of most MAM archives are stanzas that can be collated?

  38. Link Mauve

    singpolyma, much fewer currently than when we’ll have that implemented.

  39. Zash

    Should have brought the external flash, such uneven lightning at the restaurant

  40. Link Mauve

    I’ve seen messages with hundreds of reactions in non-XMPP rooms.

  41. singpolyma

    Link Mauve: right, but are those not quite busy rooms that probably have thousands of messages too? I dunno. I'm not saying it's not an optimization, of course it is, but seems like a lot of complexity to save a small bandwidth for a small number of clients

  42. emus_at_summit

    On the image publishing: Ok, cool!

  43. singpolyma

    Uhm. For reactions you definitely want who did that, usually

  44. Zash

    Another small private vs big public chats?

  45. Zash

    ... divider

  46. Zash


  47. singpolyma

    yeah maybe. Maybe if there are 10k reactions I don't want to list who did them all?

  48. singpolyma

    But like, even in BigCo company slack you do list that in practise, reactions are usually hundreds or a thousand or so at most even in the all-company channel

  49. thilo.molitor

    MattJ, sure, thanks for moving it to the wiki :)

  50. thilo.molitor

    combining it with the mod_cloud_notify docs sounds good, too :)

  51. singpolyma

    hmm, yeah, "blah, blah, and 32 others" might be a thing

  52. ralphm

    Slack limits a single individual to 23 different reactions for a given message, and a message can have a maximum of 50 different reactions.

  53. Zash

    A MAM archive per MAM message per payload?

  54. singpolyma

    yes, sure, but you still get say the :tada: emoji has a count in the hundreds

  55. singpolyma

    also in practise most clients dont support edits that have no body or an empty string body 😬️

  56. Zash

    oh no, is a receipt an automated reaction?

  57. Link Mauve

    singpolyma, also edits can affect non-body parts.

  58. Link Mauve

    Like XHTML-IM, e2ee payloads or such.

  59. singpolyma

    Link Mauve: for sure

  60. emus_at_summit

    Impression from the Summit: https://fosstodon.org/@xmpp/109800203838289905https://fosstodon.org/@xmpp/109800203838289905

  61. singpolyma

    can I edit a message to change the thread id?

  62. Zash

    singpolyma, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

  63. emus_at_summit

    Impression from the Summit: https://fosstodon.org/@xmpp/109800203838289905

  64. Link Mauve

    singpolyma, is it a payload?

  65. jonas’


  66. singpolyma

    Link Mauve: yes, just standard <thread>

  67. Zash

    or no? marvin or Daniel said only the body is corrected?

  68. jonas’

    what about encrypted bodies tho?

  69. singpolyma

    I think I currently don't allow that because I figured clients are so bad at editing bodies that other stuff wouldn't be safe, but since most don't support threads anyway I have considered allowing it

  70. Zash

    what about full stanza encryption????

  71. MattJ

    "Correction MUST only be used to change the logical content details of a stanza (e.g. the message body) and not to change the nature of the stanza or its metadata (e.g. correction MUST NOT be used to turn a chat message into a pubsub notification). Where a correction stanza includes metadata, for example stanza or MAM ids, these are properties of the correction stanza, and do not correct aspects of the original stanza."

  72. MattJ

    I would argue that <thread> counts as metadata

  73. MattJ

    so, not editable

  74. Link Mauve

    Do we need another way to move a message between threads?

  75. singpolyma

    MattJ: You're probably right, but that's definitely a value judgement as current written

  76. singpolyma

    Link Mauve: "another" ?

  77. Link Mauve

    singpolyma, if we can’t edit the thread, but actually want to.

  78. singpolyma

    Link Mauve: ah, I see

  79. Link Mauve

    singpolyma, if we can’t edit the thread (because it is metadata), but actually want to.

  80. singpolyma

    I'm not super worried about it, but I know some users might like it

  81. singpolyma

    But then, I'd also like to have edits of more than just most recent message. Which message correction could support with no spec changes, but currently reccomends you don't allow

  82. singpolyma

    I want to reiterate that the query needs to say what kinds of collations it supports

  83. singpolyma

    not just collation yes/no

  84. singpolyma


  85. singpolyma

    Yeah, you want the individuals

  86. singpolyma

    I do bodies for all my reactions :)

  87. singpolyma

    Reatctions do!

  88. singpolyma

    Reactions do!

  89. singpolyma

    We're not generating fallbacks in our case to be clear. We get a body from the phone network which represents a reaction, but the sender and recipient fully expect to get that fallback in the no-reaction case because it's designed by apple/google to be a fallback in the dumb-sms-client case

  90. singpolyma

    But the result is the same on xmpp side

  91. egnun

    So, unfortunately I have to leave again. Have fun everyone! See you at FOSDEM!

  92. MattJ

    See you :)

  93. emus

    Cool you've been herr

  94. emus

    Cool you've been here

  95. MattJ

    Here we go... :)

  96. singpolyma


  97. singpolyma

    Can I show and tell my video at break? ;) ;)

  98. Link Mauve

    nicoco, this whole discussion might be of interest to you btw.

  99. Zash

    Remote participation-presentation ?

  100. MattJ

    singpolyma, that might be a very good idea :)

  101. MattJ

    The A/V machine isn't the one that's linked to the projector, but I'm sure we can figure something out

  102. singpolyma

    "with body" is also a tricky heuristic. Given how most clients are it's not too bad, but yeah...

  103. singpolyma

    maybe "with body or fallback indication element" since then you know it has a fallback of some kind

  104. MattJ

    singpolyma, so... are you serious about doing a presentation? If we get Jitsi on the projector, would that suffice?

  105. singpolyma

    I mean, you could even just play my video. it has voiceover. and I can answer questions via relay

  106. singpolyma

    or from the av machine or whatever

  107. MattJ

    Ok, we can definitely do that

  108. MattJ

    How long is it?

  109. singpolyma


  110. MattJ


  111. ralphm

    We'll do lightning talks after lunch

  112. singpolyma

    I won't be on the stream by then, but I'll probably still be here in muc

  113. emus_at_summit

    Join via Jitsi: https://meet.jit.si/XMPPSummit25

  114. pep.

    Can someone put the jitsi link in the topic or sth?

  115. pep.

    Ah I got it, https://meet.jit.si/XMPPSummit25

  116. singpolyma

    don't we normally rather simple servers, complex clients? ;) clients are easier to change than servers (at network scale)

  117. vanitasvitae

    XMPP is complex everything 😜

  118. pep.

    Best of both worlds

  119. singpolyma

    vanitasvitae: I mean, not usually, heh. But yeah, I understand there are tensions there sometimes

  120. Zash


  121. Zash

    "Well yes, but actually no"

  122. singpolyma

    But anything that involves a new server feature is problematic because it'll "never happen" while you wait for all servers to update

  123. singpolyma

    Vs a client feature I can roll out tomorrow

  124. pep.

    singpolyma, you say as a client dev :P

  125. edhelas

    Threads is something that i'm considering in Movim as well, shoudn't be something too difficult to implement afaik

  126. Zash

    "Prosŏdy - a study in simplicity"

  127. pep.

    While Z.ash could just write a new module and deploy it for every clients he's got

  128. edhelas

    I was thinking of simply doing something like Discord

  129. edhelas


  130. pep.

    (When do we do mentions again so I don't have to do this ugly non-mentioning thing)

  131. Zash

    We've had cases of pretty fast deployment of server-side extra features via plugins yes.

  132. singpolyma

    But, for example, we're still "waiting" on bookmarks2 because many servers don't even implement yet and many that could haven't updated

  133. singpolyma

    edhelas: I'd love to have something meaningfully compatible with what we're doing in cheogram android in movim. Doesn't have to match our UI of course, so long as people on both sides feel like they get what they want and can talk to each other

  134. singpolyma

    Right now you can talk to cheogram android thread users from movim, but you always have to explicitly push the reply button which makes it not happen often in practise

  135. edhelas

    singpolyma Yes no problem :) I'm not planning to do anything in the short term, we can talk and figure out a nice way to do it. Maybe through Modern XMPP for the UI part ?

  136. singpolyma

    Cool. I might also do a prototype PR at some point for movim. Depends where all my other balls in the air are :)

  137. Link Mauve

    singpolyma, we’re not waiting on bookmarks2 at all, clients which follow the modernxmpp guidelines get them properly whenever they use an up to date server.

  138. singpolyma

    Link Mauve: sure, yes, we've added bookmarks2 support in our client when the server supports the translation

  139. singpolyma

    But that approximately only works for our users who are on snikket instances right now

  140. pep.

    Prosody 0.12 and "mod_bookmarks" should support that, and 0.12 is in "only" is Debian backports. That might be part of the issue. Even though mod_bookmarks2 is also a thing in community modules and has been for a while (but then I guess people fiddling with modules may also use backports..)

  141. singpolyma

    Right, but does any non-prosody have it?

  142. pep.

    DOAP says ejabberd, tigase and openfire don't. ejabberd and openfire only support 411 which doesn't include bookmarks2 (right?).

  143. pep.

    metronome (yunohost) doesn't either..

  144. singpolyma


  145. singpolyma

    So it's only prosody and only newest prosody

  146. singpolyma

    which is not no one, which is why I have built features which rely on bookmarks2

  147. singpolyma

    but if people want to use those fetures I mostly have to tell them to use snikket

  148. singpolyma

    but if people want to use those features I mostly have to tell them to use snikket

  149. singpolyma

    (of course, the bookmarks2 case is extra weird because we don't actually need server side support, but then we lose compatibility with other clients... possibly one of the most complex cases of this kind of roll out, so maybe it was a bad example of the original topic)

  150. Holger

    singpolyma, then again even ignoring the compat issue you do need the server to allow you to store more than a few items per PEP node, right. Which, AFAICS, is two issues in itself: (1) there's quite a few servers in the wild with a hard limit of 10 items, (2) there's quite a few servers in the wild that don't support the kinda newish `max_items=max` thing for configuring the node to the max. number of items, and without that thing it's cumbersome for the client to configure a sane limit.

  151. singpolyma

    Oh yes, I guess I wasn't aware there were still servers with such poor PEP support

  152. Holger

    So I think in practice you can still run into trouble with multi-item PEP.

  153. Holger

    singpolyma, well PEP was exclusively used for single-item use cases until relatively recently, so there's still many configs around that weren't updated for newer use cases yet.

  154. Holger

    Ecosystem movement is done when it's done!

  155. singpolyma

    interested. I guess there are some cases like avatar where you don't really need more than one

  156. singpolyma

    But yes, this is exactly what I was talking about. If you need server changes, the ecosystem update can be very slow

  157. singpolyma

    vs new client features that can happen overnight with no ecosystem wait time

  158. Holger

    Mood, tune, all the traditional things really only needed one 🙂 And then the newer things were spec'ed to stuff everything into a single item, to cope with the ecosystem. And _then_ we ran into race conditions with that hack.

  159. singpolyma

    tune would be useful to have multiple also, but I guess it does work with only one

  160. pep.

    That was years ago really. It's not like Movim and Libervia haven't existed for at least 10 years now

  161. pep.

    The max_items=max change was recent but the need for more than one item per node isn't

  162. pep.

    The max_items=max change is recent but the need for more than one item per node isn't

  163. goffi

    As pep. says we use multi-items for many years. The time necessary to have features implemented in most server is exactly why I've developed a server independent component and privileged entities/namespace delegation.

  164. Holger

    pep., goffi, yes for 'social' stuff the need isn't new, but I think there's still many servers in the wild that weren't configured to work for those cases.

  165. goffi

    We can have new features server side overnight with them.

  166. emus

    We are coming back from the lunch break!

  167. pep.

    (Should audio be back already?)

  168. vanitasvitae

    People are still standing around mumbling

  169. vanitasvitae

    So we haven't officially resumef

  170. pep.

    The hallway track! We're missing out!! (:P)

  171. singpolyma

    if you listen hard you can sometimes pick out something

  172. vanitasvitae

    The mic atleast appears to be powered

  173. singpolyma

    Kids aren't up yet so I'll hang around as long as I can, hehe

  174. MattJ

    Is audio working now?

  175. Guus


  176. singpolyma


  177. MattJ

    Great, we'll start the presentation in a moment

  178. Daniel

    Conversations 3 is going to rely on max_items=max so you better start upgrading your servers ☺️

  179. MattJ

    Problem solved :)

  180. vanitasvitae

    Casual DDoS

  181. emus_at_summit

    Membership Applications Q1 2023 https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Membership_Applications_Q1_2023

  182. singpolyma

    comment nodes work ok, but I've thought they might be too limited (replies to replies, getting notified of all comments, etc). Maybe just a single second node "all replies and replies to replies etc on blog X", but of course that's not how anything works today and may have other problems.

  183. pep.

    Link Mauve is talking about gst-meet

  184. singpolyma


  185. MattJ

    We are going to play https://kumi.tube/w/1LQQp5Uia4u8Pdojxen1y8 - in case that doesn't work out for remote participants on Jitsi

  186. MattJ

    But hopefully it will Just Work

  187. pep.

    https://github.com/avstack/gst-meet < And then you can pipe a gstreamer pipeline to your jitsi meet room

  188. MattJ

    pep., on MacOS? :)

  189. pep.

    No clue

  190. singpolyma


  191. Kev

    Go watch the video, remotes.

  192. Kev

    We'll catch up in 6 minutes or whatever it is.

  193. singpolyma

    In the video I say this feature is "soon" but it's in our stable release for a few weeks now

  194. Link Mauve

    MattJ, I haven’t tested, but I know Gstreamer is used on that OS too so it should work.

  195. pep.

    There's also an example of how to play a youtube video in the README :P

  196. intosi@ik.nu

    The problem isn't playing a video, the problem is the proprietary dongle we must use to use the projector in this room, which introduces another level of horribleness.

    🖖️ 1
  197. singpolyma

    yeah, you can always reply or quote and start new thread

  198. singpolyma

    which we'll have more explicit UI for later

  199. singpolyma

    yes, <thread> has parent but we don't implement anything with that at this time for this feature

  200. singpolyma

    Right, exaclty

  201. singpolyma

    slack style threads are a message reply + a thread id

  202. singpolyma

    to start a new thread "in reply"

  203. singpolyma

    yes, I'm listening

  204. singpolyma

    Message Reply XEP for reply

  205. singpolyma

    then thread under that

  206. singpolyma

    not really no, unique thread id will work out of us

  207. singpolyma

    not really no, unique thread id will work out for us

  208. Kev


  209. Zash

    thread-id := stanza-id OR thread-id ?

  210. singpolyma

    I think probably if doing that it makes sense to add Reply XEP also to make it clear, but if we spec that thread id that matches a stanza id is a reply that's ok

  211. singpolyma

    though you would have to make sure thread ids and stanza ids never overlap. We use UUIDs right now for thread ID in our feature so that's probably safe :)

  212. Zash

    Probably Safe™ 👍️

  213. singpolyma

    Yeah, this concern about "how to know if it's meant to be in reply or not" is why I would suggest to add Reply XEP tag for such a case

  214. singpolyma

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0461.html in case anyone not familiar

  215. Daniel

    singpolyma: couldn't you build a very similar UI based purely on replies? Where you essentially have a 'show messages that reply to x and replies to those' button instead of a 'show thread button'

  216. Daniel

    I think that would better inter operate with clients that only do replies

  217. Kev

    Yes, but then it couldn't interop with thread clients.

  218. singpolyma

    Daniel: sure, if you wanted to track the full reply tree you could simulate this from that. it would be more expensive

  219. Daniel

    Email does it...

  220. MattJ

    badly :)

  221. Syndace

    Why replies when there are single-reply threads? :D

  222. singpolyma

    yes, having tried to implement that in email clients before this is why I say it's possible but more expensive :)

  223. singpolyma

    you have to recursively track everything. Old email specs has References header as a way to optimize this (to show grandparents etc)

  224. singpolyma

    If someone starts sending thread ids that are message ids as is being discussed we'll have to build a thing that detects that and shows it as a reply, basically. I think that's more work than just using reply xep, but it doesn't sound un-doable

  225. vanitasvitae

    Wasn't there something about "The XSF does not give UX recommendations"?

  226. Zash

    vanitasvitae, haha

  227. singpolyma

    reply and select thread are the same

  228. singpolyma

    replying will always select thread in our UX

  229. pep.

    vanitasvitae, the XSF thinks they don't :P

  230. singpolyma

    we don't do reply xep yet, but that's planned

  231. vanitasvitae

    pep., 😀

  232. singpolyma

    reply is a new thread only if thread id changes

  233. Zash

    SELECT WHERE message-id = :thread OR xpath(data, '/thread') = : thread something something

  234. singpolyma

    having two ways to do replies seems like duplication for no benefit, but I expect I can implement it fine :)

  235. pep.

    There's no facilitation in the room right? (somebody taking turns for who wants to speak) It's slightly annoying to follow when people talk over each other

  236. Zash

    pep., here in the room?

  237. Zash

    No presidium or anything, no

  238. pep.

    Not in MUC, but for people behind the camera

  239. Zash

    Here, in the physical Summit room 🙂

  240. Syndace

    > It's slightly annoying to follow when people talk over each other I feel like we are very disciplined in that regard, are there multiple talking at the same time often?

  241. Zash

    We're probably pretty close to the point where organization and a presidium would be needed, sure.

  242. Zash

    Scaling Meetings™

  243. Zash

    Something something Dunbar numbers

  244. Guus

    I guess it depends on what you're used to, Syndace. I've certainly seen worse. :)

  245. pep.

    Syndace, it also helps people not talking much and who don't actually feel like interupting to talk :)

  246. vanitasvitae

    Do we need to make changes to the existing XEPs as a result of the discussion?

  247. singpolyma

    vanitasvitae: depends who wins

  248. singpolyma

    MattJ and I are both saying no ;)

  249. MattJ

    Yeah, undetermined

  250. Zash

    <thread> is in a RFC

  251. pep.

    Zash, I think it's useful when it's not just a one person meeting already :P

  252. ralphm

    Which one?

  253. Zash


  254. Zash


  255. vanitasvitae

    Thought this was about 0201

  256. Zash

    Ah, yeah, replacing/updating 201 makes sense as a result of this.

  257. singpolyma

    0201 is dead anyway. I built some stuff to rely on it right before it died :P

  258. singpolyma

    Sounds like making a different element that also means reply, but I can implement two elements that both get interpreted as reply it won't kill me

  259. emus


  260. Zash

    So <reply-to id=x/><thread/y><new-thread/> ??

  261. singpolyma

    Zash: that's what I'll do under this proposal yes

  262. Syndace

    Without the reply-to right?

  263. singpolyma

    Syndace: with, for me, since they're the same. if someone sends me just one or the other I can interpret either of them as meaning the same thing also. it's not hard

  264. Zash

    Or write down that <reply-to/> + <thread> = new thread that includes the replied to message?

  265. singpolyma

    if reply-to and new-thread are both present with different ids I have no idea what I'd do 😅️

  266. Syndace

    If's not hard for you, but it makes clients that only support replies show one random reply for the thread start and then nothing else

  267. singpolyma

    Syndace: yes, clients that don't support threads won't show threads of course. That's what we have to deal with today anyway

  268. Syndace

    Yes, but they will now show your thread starter reply

  269. singpolyma

    sure, because my user pushed the "reply" button

  270. Syndace

    hmm, okay

  271. emus_at_summit

    *Short Break *

  272. singpolyma

    but if others want their UI to be different that's quite alright of course

  273. singpolyma

    I'm just excited that even half of what I proposed got consensus

  274. Daniel

    > if reply-to and new-thread are both present with different ids I have no idea what I'd do 😅️ It's the beginning of a new thread. But it shows the embedded 'quoted' message it replies to

  275. singpolyma

    Daniel: right, it embeds the quote of one message but forks off a different message

  276. Daniel


  277. singpolyma

    so the UI might be pretty weird with that. but it's also probably not likely with any UI people are discussing building

  278. Kev


  279. Daniel

    It depends. If reply to is just a type of rich message.

  280. Daniel

    It depends. If reply to is just a type of rich message it's fairly straight forward

  281. Daniel

    Fairly similar to how one would show an embedded image a the fork-off message

  282. singpolyma

    sure, that's true

  283. singpolyma

    if you just render as a quote

  284. singpolyma

    which is obviously what we do now since we use quote and not reply xep at all in current code

  285. MattJ

    I've written some stuff at the end of the pad, I hope I captured the consensus and rationale that was presented. Feel free to review/amend as needed. Break time :)

  286. pep.

    95 online on the pad!

  287. Guus

    wow, that's amazing! Are those really unique users?!

  288. vanitasvitae

    Its probably Slack staff spying on us!

  289. winfried


  290. emus_at_summit

    Folks, any other language present at the summit besides (yes I know its accurate to break it down by flags): 🇩🇪 🇪🇸 🇫🇷 🇬🇧 🇮🇳 🇳🇱 🇵🇱 🇸🇪

  291. Syndace

    Thanks Matt

  292. piero

    greetings to all. where can i find t-shirts with xmpp logo?

  293. Guus

    Piero: they're not generally on sale. Occasionally, there is a sale of swag at certain events (like FOSDEM), but I'm not sure if that's happening this year.

  294. Guus

    As it happens, I'm about to order a small set of hooded sweaters with XMPP branding. I'd be happy to include you in the order. The price will be somewhere in the range of 30 to 35 euro, plus shipping.

  295. Guus

    I think that you're watching the live stream. Several people are wearing that sweater in the meeting. It's the brightly orange one that's being worn by someone on the left hand side, or the navy one, that's worn by a couple of others. The design is the same, it's just the colors that are different.

  296. Guus

    What did Winfried just say?

  297. Guus

    Couldn't make it out.

  298. Kev

    An aside to Ralph.

  299. Guus

    a response was "what the hell"

  300. pep.

    The person using Matrix wasn't using it for chat but for their emailing system?

  301. Guus

    And, what vendor was pushing Matrix?

  302. Syndace

    As pep. said

  303. Guus


  304. Syndace

    Not vendor, just an unspecified individual

  305. Kev

    The aside to Ralph was saying who the vendor was.

  306. Syndace


  307. Guus

    My wife, as a Dutch healthcare specialist, is having to use various 'standardized' IT systems. It is a burning pile of rubbish.

  308. piero

    Guus, thank you. I'm trying to find a t-shirt printing service online.

  309. Guus

    As in, 'secure' text messaging depends on you manually filling out a phone number in the subject of an email message, etc.

  310. Guus

    piero: there is none, as far as I'm aware.

  311. Do we stream the slides?


  312. Do we stream the slides?

    omg, I failed to relogin into converse correctly 😃

  313. Syndace


  314. pep.

    recurring conversejs UX issue

  315. Do we stream the slides?

    no, I typed my question into the name field

  316. pep.

    Yes, exactly

  317. emus_at_summit

    Hello again 😃

  318. Zash


  319. Zash


  320. Zash

    Who made the xmpp logo stickera last time I attended?

  321. Guus

    I was about to suggest the same thing as what Kev just did: should we fund this?

  322. pep.


  323. pep.

    If we want this we'll need to go fish for these people and not wait for them to show up

  324. Guus

    more so if this is as critical as Ralph just made it out to be.

  325. emus_at_summit

    Zash's questions comes from people online asking for it https://fosstodon.org/@xmpp/109801150730549100

  326. Guus

    maybe the XSF should consider tendering for this?

  327. emus_at_summit

    Follow and participate in the “More Instant Messaging Interoperability” MIMI IETF discussion: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/mimi/about/

  328. Kev

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0409.html - IM-NG

  329. winfried

    @guus it is Zivver using Matrix as e-mail backend

  330. Arne

    Hi what's you plan after the meetup today? Actually just arrived in Brussels

  331. Link Mauve


  332. Arne

    Hi what's your plan after the meetup today? Actually just arrived in Brussels

  333. vanitasvitae


  334. pep.

    Sure we can influence?

  335. pep.

    (that was ralphm talking?)

  336. pep.

    We have money and we're not even using nor asking for it

  337. Kev

    I think we're done with 'real work', for anyone listening in.

  338. Guus

    Arne, I'm not physically in Brussels, but it is just being mentioned in the summit that there is no concerted effort for anything for after the meeting

  339. Arne

    Ah ok, thanks.

  340. Arne

    then I maybe see you tomorrow :D. I unfortunately didn't have time to come earlier

  341. Link Mauve

    Thank you everyone from the room as well!

  342. pep.

    Suggestions for a next even with remote participation: have someone look at the chat and proxy what is said? Can be part of the facilitation

  343. pep.

    Suggestions for a next event with remote participation: have someone look at the chat and proxy what is said? Can be part of the facilitation

  344. emus


  345. emus

    I'm getting slowy ready to go out, if someone is interested. Still I will likely need 45 till im in the center. beside I have no clue, what about meeting at 8?

  346. emus

    I will go towards center now and look for a restaurant

  347. goffi

    emus: I need to finish to prepare for a demo, and a bit lazy for the 30 min of transport, will stay at hôtel tonight.

  348. emus

    goffi: ok - many success and thx for feedback

  349. Arne

    where are you now? maybe we can join

  350. emus

    I am in a restaurant now (had no connectipn at my seat)

  351. emus

    Anyone in a bar in the center?

  352. ralphm

    Our little group went back to the hotel already, as we need to be up early to setup at FOSDEM

  353. Kev

    I'm sorry Eddie, a couple of us have just got back to the hotel to head to bed.

  354. Kev

    Ah, what Ralph said.

  355. emus

    No problem 😊 See you tomorrow, but I wont be there early unfort.

  356. emus

    Matt has my printed QR codes

  357. MattJ