XMPP Summit - 2023-02-05

  1. emus

    Summit must drive me crazy about XMPP, I see it every where:

  2. emus


  3. ralphm


  4. emus


  5. emus

    ok ok, good night 🫡

  6. moparisthebest

    emus: hmm nice

  7. ossguy

    tallship@jabber.org‎: every federated XMPP MUC (like this one) is bridged to a Matrix room (and vice versa), because several organizations run Matrix<->XMPP bridges - see https://aria-net.org/SitePages/Portal/Bridges.aspx for one example

  8. ossguy

    using the above example, the Matrix room for this MUC would be #_bifrost_summit_muc.xmpp.org:aria-net.org

  9. Menel

    For my understanding thats not a bridged room, but a matrix user joining over a bridge

  10. MattJ

    It's Complicated™

  11. ralphm

    Anyone still at the ibis?

  12. MattJ


  13. MattJ

    Been working on my slides, don't wait for me

  14. MattJ

    Aiming to get to FOSDEM before 10

  15. ralphm

    I'm at breakfast now

  16. ralphm

    Not in a particular hurry

  17. MattJ

    K, I'll probably be down in 10min or so

  18. ralphm


  19. jonas’

    Kev, for the record, my point was that hams aren't allowed to do crypto.

  20. MattJ

    For anyone at the FOSDEM stand... I kinda published on Mastodon that I'd be doing a drop-in Snikket install support from 10am. Ralph and I will be heading for FOSDEM in a moment, but we'll not make it in before 10. I trust anyone present can either delay people, tell them to come back or (best of all) walk them though the Snikket setup: https://snikket.org/service/quickstart/ ;)

  21. winfried

    I'm at a talk closeby, if I'm needed, ping me, then I can pop-up

  22. emus

    MattJ: sorry, didnt manage to toot this

  23. emus

    MattJ: maybe later again?

  24. ralphm

    About tear-down. We start around 17:00. At 17:30 everything needs to be cleared out, trash trashed, tables and chair collected, and floors swept.

  25. ossguy

    Menel‎: I guess maybe I don't understand Matrix's representation of things - how would a "bridged room" be different from one that happens to be hosted by a bridge? (and perhaps this is off-topic, so it's fine if we don't get into it here)

  26. Menel

    ossguy: it is possible to "glue" two rooms together. Matrix users join a matrix rooms and xmpp users an xmpp room. But both see each others users and messages. Thats a bridged room. If I join a matrix room with my xmpp client or a matrix user does the opposite.. Thats just a user joining via a bridge. Not a bridged room.

  27. ralphm

    I think the difference is on what is being bridged. If you bridge a room, it is a single room that has two protocol "sides". If you bridge the user, you represent that user in the other protocol somehow and the room having no knowledge about the user not being a native user.

  28. ossguy

    I suppose I don't see why I'd want a bridged room (or why this would be a thing you'd bother implementing in a federated protocol)

  29. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    from the joinjabber faq "Gateways" or "transports" enable users to connect to other networks (IRC, Matrix...) as if they had joined it directly; the gateway will create a user session on the remote network in a process called "puppeteering"; "Bridges" connect collective spaces (such as chatrooms) across networks without user intervention ; they can relay message through a dedicated user (relay bot) or by "puppeteering" users on remote networks. Some remote networks also allow the relay bot to temporarily change its name with is referred to as "user spoofing".

  30. Menel

    Matrix uses a lot of brisged rooms for irc

  31. Menel

    Matrix uses a lot of bridged rooms for irc. See the fdroid room. It is bridged via at least three protocols

  32. ralphm

    Federation is hard enough. Federating two federations is something that I don't get know how to do reasonably. You either have to relay and have multiple hops or you need to settle on a single s2s protocol.

  33. ossguy

    Menel: yeah, I can see why for IRC (since IRC isn't federated) but it doesn't make sense to me for other federated protocols

  34. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    yeah. or you lose all the features and it is just text

  35. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    like irc bridged rooms

  36. moparisthebest

    I've never once seen bridged rooms with good UX

  37. Menel

    Of the matrix bridge would just behave like biboumi, and the users would just know they write for irc too, it would be ok

  38. moparisthebest

    Vs just having 1 source of truths and other protocols running their own transports, for example biboumi has *excellent* ux for folks in both sides

  39. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    one of the things that bugs me about biboumi is having to remember how to write the uri to join a room

  40. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    plus that it is irc of course

  41. ossguy

    ralphm: when you say "the room having no knowledge about the user not being a native user", how does that work? wouldn't people still be able to tell by the user's Matrix ID (or Jabber ID)? or are you saying that the person needs to register an additional Matrix/Jabber ID in order to join a bridged room?

  42. moparisthebest

    Biboumi could probably help you write the URL with adhoc commands or similar, but it's pretty straightforward

  43. Menel

    #room%ircserver@yourxmppcomponent.tld. Just remember # % done

  44. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    of course. looks practically the same as xmpp rooms /s

  45. ossguy

    (which reminds me of another thought I had: if people are concerned about "yucky-looking" JIDs/Matrix IDs for their rooms (i.e. that's why they want to make a "bridge room"), wouldn't a simpler "ID alias" protocol be better?)

  46. moparisthebest

    MSavoritias (fae,ve): it's channel%server@biboumi unsure how it could get easier

  47. moparisthebest

    # is part of the channel name typically on most (but not all!) IRC servers

  48. emus

    German Train just gave me an extra cookie because I paid cash^^ Was a great experiences folks, hope to see you soon!

  49. emus

    Are there any other images from the talks?

  50. emus


  51. emus

    At fosdem

  52. emus


  53. airjump

    > emus‎ Thanks for the picture

  54. emus

    airjump: just remind its from the summit. More in our social media

  55. mathieui

    moparisthebest: biboumi lets you dedicate an fqdn to a specific server, so you can do #room@servername.biboumi.example, which is nice

  56. Menel

    Uh. Didn't yet find that option, interesting!

  57. moparisthebest

    mathieui: right but that requires running a biboumi per XMPP server right? Still a nice option to have for sure

  58. moparisthebest

    mathieui: right but that requires running a biboumi per IRC server right? Still a nice option to have for sure

  59. mathieui

    moparisthebest, yep

  60. moparisthebest

    But anyway if the channel host wants to "bridge" that's 100% the correct way to do it, as you still keep the single source of truth model

  61. pep.

    MattJ, nice picture in the room, with "[Matrix]" on the board right behind you :P

  62. ralphm

    MattJ: we've parked the bus on the south side of the city. If you're still on the bus, exit around the Royal Palace

  63. moparisthebest

    Does anyone know if this is still just jitsi meet? https://mastodon.app.stefanberggren.se/@nsg/109812855489337292

  64. moparisthebest

    (the matrix group video chat)

  65. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    its native afaik: https://call.element.io/

  66. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    but they moved away from webrtc to matrixrtc: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals/blob/matthew/group-voip/proposals/3401-group-voip.md

  67. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    so jingle but matrix it seems

  68. Syndace

    ralphm: ah missed that, just returned to the hotel

  69. moparisthebest

    At some point it was jitsi meet though, I hadn't heard if they changed

  70. Arne

    Thanks guys for your work and openness there!

  71. Syndace

    ralphm: we're hopping on a bus towards Royal Palace, will be there in 15ish minutes

  72. ralphm

    We're actually here: Skievelat +32 2 502 25 12 https://maps.app.goo.gl/GFxpAPNz4fbK53Sv8

  73. ralphm

    We've already ordered, so you'll have to consider what's the best strategy for food. I'll leave for home right after, but the other guys well surely be up for drinks

  74. ralphm


  75. ralphm

    Syndace: ^

  76. emus

    > Arne: > 2023-02-05 06:58 (GMT+01:00) > Thanks guys for your work and openness there! 💚🧡💙

  77. Zash

    Boarded plane and leaving Brussels for this time. Thanks and good work all!

  78. jonas’

    safe flight

  79. jabberjocke

    Hope you all had a good fosdem and xsf dinner!

  80. emus

    jabberjocke: Thanks!

  81. jabberjocke

    Sorry for not being so active

  82. jabberjocke

    Next year 🥳

  83. emus


  84. alameyo

    Syndace: on my way inside

  85. MattJ

    alameyo: we're upstairs (middle floor?)