XMPP Summit - 2024-02-01


  1. Link Mauve

    Alright, I’m on my way, I should arrive between 10:30 and 11:00 I expect!

  2. Link Mauve

    See you there!

  3. moparisthebest

    > https://pix.mathieui.net/o/sFdiH.jpg Is that a John Deere? Just remotely brick it (not legal advice)

  4. Guus

    Kindly ask them to stay away from the train tracks 😬

  5. moparisthebest

    I hear the train companies are remotely bricking those

  6. Guus

    You're clearly overestimating the technical capabilities of European train companies. 😁

  7. Guus

    That said, I've boarded my train headed for Brussels. It was only two minutes late, had so far not been surrounded by sheep (or other cattle), and there's not an angry farmer in sight. 🀞

  8. moparisthebest

    Guus: https://gizmodo.com/polish-train-shutdown-hackers-prime-minister-repair-1851111884 & https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/manufacturer-deliberately-bricked-trains-repaired-by-competitors-hackers-find/ etc etc, certainly been done recently

  9. Guus

    > hackers say Newag ingrained software to disable trains when they reached the coordinates of certain third-party repair shops. πŸ˜‚

  10. Daniel

    Good morning everyone We are meeting at 9am for a 9:30 start. The room is called 'France' but there should also be signage for the Summit. They have coffee and pastries for us!

  11. emus

    on the OT: Breaking DRM of polish trains https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrlrbfGZo2k

  12. edhelas

    Jumping im the train to Brussels :) !

  13. emus

    choo choo

  14. singpolyma

    Good morning all

  15. neox

    I'm sad not being able to come but I wish you all a very good meeting 😊

  16. Arne

    Running :D

  17. emus

    Good morning

  18. Guus waves at the Cisco offices while rolling through Diegem train station.

    πŸ‘‹ 1
  19. MattJ

    :)

  20. Guus

    My train has a bit of a delay. If I'm not encountering angry farmers, I should be at Thon before 10 though.

  21. goffi

    Macron is visiting Von der Layer today, a few block from us, expect police (and farmers) everywhere ^^

  22. edhelas

    Might take my trip back by by tractor 🚜 πŸ€”

  23. edhelas

    Might take my trip back by tractor 🚜 πŸ€”

  24. goffi

    Could be fun

  25. goffi

    Do we keep the same pad? It full of Summit 25 stuff.

  26. goffi

    I've create this https://pad.nixnet.services/LSiYdypOQ5Ohg506B0MxEA#

  27. goffi

    created*

  28. Kev

    Do you have the link to the Summit 25 pad, please?

  29. mathieui

    Kev, https://pad.nixnet.services/oy6MKVbESSycLeMJIOh6zw it’s in the topic

  30. Kev

    There seems to be a Summit 26 pad already up on the screen.

  31. Kev

    > , https://pad.nixnet.services/oy6MKVbESSycLeMJIOh6zw it’s in the topic *facepalm* Thanks.

  32. mathieui

    indeed, there is https://pad.nixnet.services/D6jfvHjJTTqyAfHd3Z2_Cg on the wiki page

  33. Daniel

    that's the one showing on the screen

  34. Daniel

    wo created that pad though? because I can’t edit it

  35. goffi

    oh I haven't seen there was one, sorry my bad

  36. mathieui

    created by "xsfcommteam"

  37. Daniel

    emus, can you set the D6… pad to edit by anyone?

  38. Daniel

    assuming you were the one who created it

  39. goffi

    Small request for native English speakers: please slow the pace down when you speak with other native, sometimes it can be difficult to follow for non natives (at least for me).

  40. Kev

    It's a very reasonable request. I'll try.

  41. winfried

    any audio / video available yet?

  42. Guus

    https://igniterealtime.org/httpfileupload/xtGNmZrAHzKVBnP3asV3FuA7-GA/LS312f6bQBW7grzjFSDlrw.jpg

  43. intosi@ik.nu

    Oh, that's fun...

  44. Guus

    Apparently, metro station Maalbeek is closed

  45. Guus

    What's closer, kunst-wet or Schuman?

  46. Kev

    Schuman.

  47. Kev

    But neither is far.

  48. Guus

    Thanks

  49. Arne

    Just arrived

  50. Guus

    Metro stopped at Maalbeek 😐

  51. mathieui

    would not expect schuman to be very open considering the protest zones

  52. winfried

    heaviest protests are bit more to the south, at place luxembourg

  53. goffi

    Oh it's not only Macron actually, it's all EU leaders, fun.

  54. singpolyma

    winfried: don't think there's an av link yet, one in topic is last year

  55. MattJ

    A/V is being worked on

  56. winfried

    thanks

  57. Kev

    A/V in XMPP is an unsolved problem, clearly :)

  58. goffi

    Something I would like to discuss today actually.

  59. MattJ

    A/V is on the way, we're going to kick things off in ~6 minutes

  60. ralphm

    https://meet.jit.si/XMPPSummit26

  61. Daniel

    ralphm, thank you. can you update the subject too please?

  62. Daniel

    nevermind

  63. ralphm

    Hello, remote people. How is the audio/video?

  64. singpolyma

    good

  65. edhelas

    > https://share.conversations.im/gnauck/mjWh0dMNNQb3ejDv/D7dsgOq4T3WKiBnlQKS0gg.jpg https://mov.im/node/pubsub.movim.eu/Movim/fb738779-4067-47b2-bf34-09231e954e20

  66. ralphm

    Is the pad nicely readable from the stream as well?

  67. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    yeah it is

  68. ralphm

    OBS Studio FTW

    β™₯ 1
  69. winfried

    It is just hard to mike a conference room...

  70. ralphm

    yeah, when multiple people are speaking it is bad, but when I put the mic in the right direction of a single speaker I think it is reasonable?

  71. singpolyma

    yes

  72. winfried

    Yes

  73. ralphm

    Also, since I forgot to bring my USB-C Thunderbird cable, I don't have additional ports to make it better.

  74. ralphm

    Thunderbolt

  75. singpolyma

    Isn't this what compliance suites are for?

  76. singpolyma

    If the problem is "too many XEPs" I agree we have a branding problem there, but officially most XEPs aren't really meant to be looked at

  77. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    i agree we just need to make compliance suites more visible thats it

  78. intosi@ik.nu

    I think that was what Alex suggested as well here in the room.

  79. singpolyma

    Really newcomer barely wants a spec at all. they want tutorials, blog posts, libraries, etc

  80. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    agreed

  81. singpolyma

    stream died for anyone else?

  82. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    seems stream is down

  83. ralphm

    Crash

  84. mathieui

    singpolyma, +1, the book "XMPP the definitive guide" was really good for introducing the high-level concepts, but even if it mostly still works, it is a bit dated now (I may need to contact the editor to update the examples from sleekxmpp to slixmpp too :x)

  85. singpolyma

    yeah, paper tech books are out of date the moment they hit the shelves these days, but that kind of documentation is important

  86. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    its back

  87. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    true documentation for devs instead directing reading xeps would be welcome

  88. Kev

    https://docs.modernxmpp.org/client/protocol/ is the link MattJ just mentioned

  89. singpolyma

    once we have the xeps what's the benefit of a new RFC?

  90. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    you dont need a bunch of different xeps but just the base

  91. mathieui

    singpolyma, lisibility and discovery for new developers, and marketing material

  92. cal0pteryx

    a single go-to document

  93. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    also the base doesnt have to be completely disreguarded once you go to xeps

  94. singpolyma

    > a single go-to document Having worked with people to support OpenPGP, one giant RFC is not any more loved than modularity

  95. larma

    An XMPP compliant client can't drop their SASL or Bind 1 implementation as those are mandated by the RFC

  96. singpolyma

    larma: ah, fair. ok, this makes sense

  97. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    a header or make the compliance/modern xmpp sounds nice

  98. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    a header or make the compliance/modern xmpp more visible sounds nice

  99. singpolyma

    > singpolyma, lisibility and discovery for new developers, and marketing material Generally developers don't want to be looking at specs, so I don't think any way we package the specs will help that kind of person

  100. singpolyma

    I think maybe there is space for things that are not XEPs, especially in documentation space. I mean, the newsletter is not a XEP, heh

  101. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    i agree that moving to compliance suites instead of xmpp "2.0" seems the more elegant solutions

  102. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    it reminds me of the rust editions

  103. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    and compliances dont have to be every year then

  104. edwinm

    Whitepapers might help for general non/less technical purposes.

  105. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    or c/c++ editions for that matter

  106. singpolyma

    Oh yeah, if there's a new RFC it should just be XMPP, new version of the rfc, no need for "2.0" or rename or whatever. Just to move to sasl2, etc, at the rfc level so you can be compliant without sasl1 makes sense to me

  107. singpolyma

    but that's seperate from dev docs / compliance suites

  108. singpolyma

    I'm really not sure why compliance suites are published as xeps

  109. singpolyma

    I guess so they can get voted on

  110. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    i think compliance suites are too frequent also. no reason to publish a new one if its the same

  111. singpolyma

    agree

  112. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    just say that you are compliant with 2022 compliance to the server

  113. singpolyma

    two camera angles!

  114. singpolyma

    obs magic ftw

  115. singpolyma

    I think it's also fine to say in a suite things like "implement this for avatars" and if a client doesn't have avatars hopefully they have enough brains to know they can ignore that line, heh

  116. singpolyma

    action items: everyone write a blog post about implementing stuff and/or contribute to libraries ;)

  117. winfried

    don't focus only on the client, XMPP is also a s2s interop protocol

  118. singpolyma

    In fact, I think s2s interop is the main thing that matters. *but* what features we choose to use in the clients does affect s2s sometimes (for example what payloads we put in messages)

  119. singpolyma

    stuff like sasl2 and other c2s specific concerns are interesting, but a client/server pair could use a totally new c2s protocol without breaking s2s if they really wanted to

  120. mathieui

    ralphm, I’m sorry for all the work you have to do moving cameras around, should we invest in a motorized camera that moves when it detects voices for the next time?

  121. singpolyma

    xmpp.org definitely isn't for end users, but yeah more stuff on the xmpp.org blog vs other people's blogs might be good? but more posts is more posts, people will find them from aggregators more than from finding out homepage

  122. singpolyma

    (I know there's other kinds of docs too, but it's all about the same, it comes up on an aggregator that's how people get introduced to lots of stuff)

  123. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    we could always ressurect the old tradition of planet.xmpp.org

  124. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    where it aggragates blogs

  125. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    like gnome/mozilla/kde do

  126. singpolyma

    sure. I mean, we basically link to all major blog posts from the newsletter also

  127. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    right

  128. singpolyma

    https://planet.jabber.org/ is still there also

  129. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    meh who searches for jabber anymore :P

  130. singpolyma

    well a planet is a very inside baseball kind of thing anyway, it's not something people are gonna just stumble upon

  131. singpolyma

    they're more likely to find one of the blog posts on lobsters or whatever

  132. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    true

  133. singpolyma

    how do we not have strict ordering for 1:1? you mean in MAM?

  134. mathieui

    singpolyma, each server can have a different view of what was sent and received

  135. singpolyma

    in case of simultaneous send or similar I guess, hmm yeah

  136. jsautret

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/mimi/about/

  137. singpolyma

    I thought MLS had some tolerance for this, but maybe not during startup or something

  138. singpolyma

    Assuming MIMI goes anywhere at all, it would be ideal for us if their format contained at least a "other" spot we could dump extensions, heh, but they might hate that I dunno

  139. singpolyma

    Between two federations you can also do bidirectional gateways so you don't need accounts on both sides and all the other mess most legacy gateways need

  140. singpolyma

    well if the enshrined format is xml that would be ideal for us. then we can use the part they spec for interop but still easily extend for ourselves

  141. edwinm

    Could people not have whispered side-discussions in the room, please?

  142. larma

    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mimi-content/

  143. mathieui

    Can I point out that MIMI supports HTML content :p

  144. singpolyma

    sneaky xml ;)

  145. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    i wonder how much more of bridges we are going to see if mimi happens widely

  146. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    which seems unlikely atm

  147. singpolyma

    It's not yet clear if MIMI will even pick something *anyone* wants to use, nevermind anyone interesting

  148. edhelas

    > Can I point out that MIMI supports HTML content :p Time to push XHTML-IM ? ;)

  149. singpolyma

    Which I think is why no one is jumping up and down to spend years of time on it

  150. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    i doubt bridges would bring more people to xmpp personally

  151. singpolyma

    I mean, as someone who operates a bridge with 4000 users who pay for it and who didn't (mostly) know XMPP existed before they used the bridge I'm not completely sure that's true ;)

  152. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    well they use the bridge sure

  153. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    but are they xmpp users? in the sense are they going to migrate? are they going to move to xmpp if the bridge goes down

  154. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    (history says no)

  155. singpolyma

    A nonzero number of them do invite contacts to XMPP, but obviously they do need the bridge to keep working for the majority of their contacts, which is what makes it attractive to them

  156. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    also mimi seems to be making some weird decisions in formats. idk if matrix format would have been better or something already implemented by somebody

  157. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    > A nonzero number of them do invite contacts to XMPP, but obviously they do need the bridge to keep working for the majority of their contacts, which is what makes it attractive to them yeah and it makes sense. bridges are the most thankless effort of the ecosystem

  158. singpolyma

    at the end of the day unless someone is gonna volunteer to do the work I'm not sure it matters if we should or not

  159. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    yeah. i dont think there is enough interest for bridges at this point

  160. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    and tbh its not only xmpp that has this sentiment

  161. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    companies dont want to, people block threads on masto

  162. winfried

    MIMI was also founded in reaction to the Digital Markets Act. Now that MIMI is moving really slowly, we may also bypass MIMI and push XMPP directly at the EC: we have working code, certainly when we MLS implemented

  163. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    its a general sentiment i think

  164. singpolyma

    winfried: DMA isn't interested in legislating a technical solution, nor should they be IMO

  165. singpolyma

    we can try to push at facebook, but I'm sure they're aware of us heh

  166. winfried

    DMA states that the EC can appoint a standard and which standard is still open

  167. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    yeah but probably not this soon no?

  168. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    they are gonna wait to see if everything collapses first

  169. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    standard efforts that is

  170. emus

    > we can try to push at facebook, but I'm sure they're aware of us heh doesnt run FB messenger xmpp?

  171. singpolyma

    whatsapp does, messenger no

  172. emus

    ok

  173. singpolyma

    there used to be a first party gateway with some very limited functionality

  174. winfried

    it is not specified in de DMA if it should be a c2s or s2s protocol

  175. singpolyma

    I think everyone assumes c2s since none of the stakeholders have any concept of s2s

  176. Daniel

    > it is not specified in de DMA if it should be a c2s or s2s protocol yes. and then vendors will just do the "easy way", which is c2s

  177. singpolyma

    for sure

  178. Daniel

    at least that's what the Meta/WhatsApp "api" documenation says

  179. singpolyma

    Isn't this a downgrade sort of thing? So if no OMEMO keys are there for a brand new contact, you now there's no OMEMO there, and if the MITM comes in later and says "no more omemo now" that's why you give the scary warning?

  180. singpolyma

    If you're doing manual key verification and not TOFU then you won't be fooled, and if you were doing TOFU the MITM could fool you on first contact either way

  181. SavagePeanut

    It would be nice to be able to remember the whole gateway doesn't support OMEMO with a similar warning to a single contact doesn't support it. "whatsapp.domain.tld doesn't support OMEMO. Proceed? Y/N"

  182. singpolyma

    as soon as you have the warning with Y/N like that it confuses users quite a bit. I think the warning is only warranted on a downgrade attack and not on first contact (since the MITM issue is equivalent to TOFU anyway)

  183. SavagePeanut

    Or, at least be able to manually add to Conversation's hardcoded list and more clients have that

  184. SavagePeanut

    I would be happy with that :)

  185. SavagePeanut

    Somewhere in the settings

  186. ralphm

    winfried, I have set up a speaker, and probably it will cause you to be heard in the room. After this topic is done, you could try again.

  187. winfried

    great!

  188. winfried

    I'm sitting sharp

  189. singpolyma

    the sizeof(council) approvals automerge sounds awesome, then there would be a record of council votes in github too

  190. singpolyma

    I'd be happy to help with the automation stuff that still needs to happen if possible

  191. cal0pteryx

    Those are the open topics on editor automation: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Editor+Tooling%22

  192. Kev

    I don't think that list of issues necessarily reflects what has to happen to be the same as what I'm doing currently (e.g. I'm not manually tagging XEPs etc.)

  193. singpolyma

    Looks like last tag was 2022, so I guess this is something we used to do but currently don't?

  194. singpolyma

    this seems like probably the main thing that needs done? https://github.com/xsf/xeps/issues/1224

  195. ralphm

    winfried are you there?

  196. Kev

    Automatically run the tags script and apply tags, on merge automatically publish and send emails. I think that's most of it.

  197. winfried

    yes... dit the jitsi link change?

  198. singpolyma

    Kev: tags as in labels?

  199. ralphm

    No

  200. winfried

    I don't see you in jitsi

  201. ralphm

    Weird. I'll reconnect

  202. Kev

    > : tags as in labels? Yes, that's probably the right word, sorry.

  203. singpolyma

    Kev: ok, so auto apply labels to newly opened PRs based on a script that exists already. I don't see that captured here but seems doable. Is the script in this repo?

  204. Kev

    It is.

  205. edwinm

    I see a familiar face!

  206. Kev

    Whose? :)

  207. singpolyma

    Kev: ah, I see, it's this https://github.com/xsf/xeps/blob/master/tools/triage.sh ?

  208. Kev

    That looks right, yes.

  209. Kev

    I'm not sure I'd have written it as a shell script, but it's there so it's what I use :)

  210. Kev

    Board member, or bored member? :)

  211. emus

    https://jabbers.one:5281/file_share/TzpP-kw3wKLBiVRujV1ZP6mB/zb2rhkLScovpZFphCumABdkGpPDu7AkWrsT1TY1cAg3pyuwwp.jpg

  212. MattJ

    Previous discussion of Spaces: https://pad.nixnet.services/oy6MKVbESSycLeMJIOh6zw#Spaces

  213. Seve/SouL

    Great topics, thanks for sharing

  214. singpolyma

    Kev: auto label: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1319 if you run this instead of triage.sh it should be the same but add the labels for you. if that works I can add it to an action to autorun

  215. singpolyma

    ehn, matrix has lots of clients. but they don't market matrix they market element, which is as it should be

  216. singpolyma

    One thing to consider is that matrix is often marketed as team/community chat and we don't have any major solutions in xmpp land currently targetting that space

  217. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    agreed. people keep repeating that matrix is discord and xmpp is 1:1 chats

  218. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    which is not true obviously protocol wise

  219. debacle

    singpolyma I tried "prose" some weeks ago, which seems to go in that direction, but it was mainly WiP.

  220. singpolyma

    yes, prose is a project that is working in this direction but as you say no lauch yet and so "jury is still out"

  221. winfried

    did matrix solve their scaling problems?

  222. winfried

    (and their security issues?)

  223. singpolyma

    not really

  224. mathieui

    (I’ll summon Ge0rg to market zimpy)

  225. singpolyma

    πŸ’― to everything ralphm is syaing

  226. singpolyma

    πŸ’― to everything ralphm is saying

  227. debacle once looked up zimpy in UD

  228. singpolyma

    I think advanced users who want alt clients can find compatible clients and deal with it being different. But for a headliner brand to new users gotta pick something

  229. ralphm

    @debacle I still want to know who has zimpy.com

  230. singpolyma

    "in principle no, in practice yes" is the quote of the day

  231. mathieui

    I’ll put it in the minutes as "does kev wants to talk about MIX today"

  232. ralphm

    Kev also said "personally"

  233. singpolyma

    ralphm: yes, true. less pithy that way πŸ˜‰

  234. winfried

    what about Movim?

  235. edhelas

    > what about Movim? What about it ?

  236. winfried

    I think it might be a snikket-alike proposition serving a different market...

  237. edhelas

    "Movim, we're the element you're looking for β„’ "

  238. winfried

    (y)

  239. singpolyma

    jabber.org is public-ish, heh

  240. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    i think chasing matrix is the wrong strategy imo

  241. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    matrix is not sustainable to begin with

  242. singpolyma

    It's not about chasing I think but it's the most obvious comparion in the free space, just like irc used to be

  243. winfried

    if xmpp.org gets big enough to fly on the radar of regulatory bodies, then I give a *huge* party

  244. Guus

    I'm not sure anyone suggested that. I used the Matrix client as an example of a likable client that XMPP mostly misses, in my opinion.

  245. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    fair. but one central server is a bad move imo

  246. singpolyma

    for sure. it's just expidient early in life, which is why jabber.org used to be public and matrix.org is today

  247. winfried

    I do like the marketing and fundraising of Matrix... but don't want to move XMPP into that model

  248. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    personally i am a bit biased

  249. winfried

    individual XMPP projects may...

  250. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    because i do think that activitypub federation basically learned the lessons we havent yet learned

  251. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    or matrix starts to learn

  252. edwinm

    It's a Beowulf cluster of Raspberry Pi's, bought from scalpers ;-).

  253. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    that public/open to registration servers dont work.

  254. singpolyma

    activitypub had this exact same problem, with one most popular client and server when popularity started to take off. and just like others that slowly starts to level off after some time

  255. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    it actually move to the problem of a few big servers now so there is a push for smallers servers now

  256. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    at least in my parts

  257. singpolyma

    right. that's the normal lifecycle stuff that happens

  258. singpolyma

    that's basically where xmpp is now. a few dozen most popular servers with a bit push to go even smaller

  259. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    yeah

  260. singpolyma

    I was very happy when we stopped pushing most new JMP customers through a single volunteer run server

  261. edhelas

    https://superbloom.design/

  262. edhelas

    ?

  263. edwinm

    I think so.

  264. debacle

    Btw. by far the most non-technical friends I got onto Jabber was by Quicksy :-) I really hope for an iOS equivalent. IIRC, Monal is a candidate?

  265. mathieui

    debacle, I think the Prav people have put up a bounty for something like that

  266. debacle

    mathieui Yes, you're right!

  267. mathieui

    https://social.masto.host/@praveen/111437137790313865

  268. pep.

    Have I dropped off the muc ? No messages in an hour

  269. SavagePeanut

    Just came back from break

  270. mathieui

    pep., long break

  271. singpolyma

    I had to go watch kids so you're missing all my heckling that's why it's so quiet πŸ˜‰

  272. mathieui

    Maybe worth an (online?) sprint on A/V documentation? Not my department though

  273. emus

    Happy to organise

  274. emus

    if really wanted

  275. Daniel

    there is also https://xeps.tigase.net/docs/meet-group-videocall/

  276. edhelas

    I think at one moment "we" (the clients... and servers interested in A/V) will need to meet and put down all those quirks and document properly yes :)

  277. Daniel

    which has the benefit of an existing SFU that you can use

  278. Daniel

    imho writing and/or updating the XEP is less complicated than coding the SFU

  279. singpolyma

    I think anything we do needs to work with existing SFUs yeah

  280. singpolyma

    Main thing is translating the sfu API into jingle stanzas

  281. Daniel

    Andrzej, which (existing) SFU are you using at Tigase?

  282. Andrzej

    https://xeps.tigase.net/docs/meet-group-videocall/

  283. mathieui

    the timer on Kev is a bit ominous

  284. MSavoritias (fae,ve)

    XD

  285. Kev

    Most things about Kev are a bit ominous.

  286. winfried

    Have a nice dinner!

  287. moparisthebest

    > Kev: auto label: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1319 if you run this instead of triage.sh it should be the same but add the labels for you. if that works I can add it to an action to autorun singpolyma: ooh nice, the plan was to have a script to run triage.sh in CI and use the output to auto apply tags without any manual anything, but it should also be runnable locally without touching GitHub, the structure of how this happens I don't think matters

  288. singpolyma

    I thought about processing the output and can if people want but this seemed much simpler

  289. moparisthebest

    I think that script could have a flag to modify whether "add_tag" called gh or just echo'd for local use

  290. moparisthebest

    That's what I meant by "I don't care about the structure"

  291. moparisthebest

    Can that be ran from gitlab actions automatically?

  292. singpolyma

    You can run it locally as is too and it'll do the tags on GitHub of course. And yes should be trivial to write the GitHub action for this

  293. Kev

    Thanks for looking at this :)

  294. emus

    Until what station are we driving? @devs in the metro

  295. emus

    and now again, until which busstop? πŸ₯²

  296. cal0pteryx

    ralphm: ^ ?

  297. ralphm

    Follow Edwin

  298. ralphm

    ETA 19:05

  299. emus

    thx

  300. Arne

    Arg the traffic is a problem here

  301. ralphm

    No kidding

  302. intosi

    https://upload.ik.nu/upload/OARBlw2FHQZ-8L0L/18A85F31-FFA5-4939-9AAD-510AE5E51F78.jpg

  303. Kev

    Are you *walking* to the restaurant? :)

  304. emus

    No, its just a group picture because the highway is so nice - data highway!

  305. Kev

    That's alright then.

  306. ralphm

    We made it. Nice brisk walk.

  307. intosi

    Yup. Farmers, eye.

  308. intosi

    Just working up our appetite.

  309. Daniel

    wait you only just now made it?

  310. intosi

    Yarp.

  311. Arne

    Still on the way 🫨

  312. ralphm

    Yes

  313. intosi

    We picked the fast option by walking.

  314. fiaxh

    https://lightrise.org:5281/file_share/b7v8zCIAzLU77kvfKOPjPm-z/Vnxjz4LjRqSMB2X-7E3Ijw.jpg

  315. winfried

    Enjoy!

  316. Kev

    I've got a (very) skeleton spaces strawman that people can maybe look at if they want, tomorrow. Missing almost any protocol examples, just trying to think of all (most of) the things spaces need to do took me long enough.

  317. pep.

    Dunno if it's been mentioned but there's a somewhat recent thing here re spaces: https://codeberg.org/moxxy/custom-xeps/src/branch/master/xep-xxxx-communities.md

  318. pep.

    (Not trying to push for this solution specifically, I haven't even read it fully)

  319. pep.

    Β« *funding from the XSF can be worked out Β» woah, there's money on the table, what's happening :o

  320. singpolyma

    There's always money on the table

  321. pep.

    No there hasn't always been

  322. pep.

    Good that it changes