-
lore
register what?
-
Guus
Sorry to hear that MatthewFennell, but understandable. Maybe next time!
-
goffi
Finally in my last train, but it's 30 min late, I won't make it before 10:20 at best.
-
Guus
I just got on my first train. I'll race you to Brussels goffi ! π
-
goffi
It will be a 27 hours trip for me at the end.
-
Guus
Uff. I'm lucky to live close enough for me to be able to make the trip on the day itself.
-
goffi
I was supposed to do it in a single (long) day, but I've missed a transfer due to a delayed train.
-
Guus
Did you find a spot to spend the night?
-
goffi
Yeah the train company paid for an hotel.
-
Daniel
Is this a good time to suggest that our CoC should include the requirement that people arrive by train to XSF events?
-
moparisthebest
so no XSF events ever in USA ? bummer :P
-
Guus
Daniel: given the state of the German railway, that is a brave thing to suggest.
-
Daniel
moparisthebest: once the US includes what was previously known as Canada and Greenland we can build a railway
π 1 -
Daniel
Or a tunnel or something. I'm bad at geography but I'm sure it'll work out somehow
-
Guus
It will be the best tunnel in the world. Only have to punch a hole in the best wall in the world for the trains to get through, I suppose.
-
goffi
Drill baby drill
-
Guus
Whenever I read that, I cannot help myself but imagine Trump saying that while eating a big pile of Jello. #mentalImage
-
goffi
π
-
Guus
Are we in the same meeting room as last year?
-
Daniel
No. We are in Germany this time
-
goffi
Oh cool, I'm in Germany too!
-
goffi
Not for long though.
-
emus
Kev, can you DM me? you contact does not work anymore with me
-
emus
> Server-to-server connection failed: unsupported-stanza-type
-
Daniel
https://share.gultsch.de/daniel/oVaEORH2MI4FEpiO/NUZGFptnR2KD40VXf16Ihg.jpg
-
Kev
We're upstairs, and around three sides of a square, pretty much.
-
Kev
> Kev, can you DM me? you contact does not work anymore with me Interesting. I wonder if you're using one of the servers we blocked for spamming.
-
Daniel
Seems like the one ejabberd version with broken bidi
-
Kev
Yeah, looks like we blocked it for spamming.
-
Guus
I'm about to pull into Central. Unless there are angry protesters between there and Maalbeek, I should be there in half an hour or so.
-
Guus
That is assuming I get onto the right metro, in the right direction...
-
Kev
I hear the protests against the XMPP Summit are going to be fierce this year.
-
debacle
Four persons already in Germany.
-
Guus
Someone should tell Dave that those protests aren't funny anymore. Even if he _does_ dress up for them .
-
emus
>> Kev, can you DM me? you contact does not work anymore with me > Interesting. I wonder if you're using one of the servers we blocked for spamming. Jabbers.one? ↺
-
emus
When you have setup the remote session, please also.update the wiki
-
jjrh
This channel for xsf summit or fosdem too?
-
Guus
There's typically overlap in this channel
-
goffi
The realtime notes link in the room subject at for last sprint. Can someone make a new one?✎ -
goffi
The realtime notes link in the room subject are from last sprint. Can someone make a new one? ✏
-
singpolyma
good morning all
-
gnemmi
good morning everyone
-
MattJ
Made a new realtime notes doc: https://pad.nixnet.services/ksU__LzURT-16T6G7mMhyQ
-
singpolyma
uh... is jitsi meet just totally broken for anyone else?
-
goffi
MattJ: thx
-
MattJ
singpolyma, I don't think it has been set up yet
-
singpolyma
no I mean the whole site is down for me
-
MattJ
Oh
-
singpolyma
just loads a black page even on the homepage
-
Kev
Ralph is currently setting up what could be video stuff, or could be his e-kit. We'll know later. But if the site's down that might make it less viable.
-
goffi
My train should arrive at 10:00, so I'll be there around 10:30 or slightly earlier.
-
MattJ
singpolyma, hmm, indeed. I get this rendered page:
-
MattJ
https://matthewwild.co.uk/uploads/screenshot-20250130-1738226153-8112.png
-
MattJ
and now it's back
-
Guus
https://igniterealtime.org/httpfileupload/LSVviM5aWnT03RPoUJVQ70i1Wlg/nbNpIXvdQs-Zvxw1t-BQ8Q.jpg
-
Guus
I have arrived.
-
mathieui
Guus, does not look like germany
-
singpolyma
could use eg https://calls.disroot.org/XMPPSummit27 if the main jitsi is down
-
winfried
Caught up in a traffic jam, should be there in 10 minutes
-
Guus
mathieui: I was actually in Germany moments before, but I hadn't properly arrived before coffee happened.
-
singpolyma
> and now it's back hmm. still just black for me. I wonder if they've stopped supporting all my browsers... ↺
-
Daniel
winfried: Eta?
-
singpolyma
convinced my firefox to upgrade and it works now whew
π 1 -
goffi
I'm in subway
-
mathieui
goffi, we are voting on topics
-
mathieui
do you want to vote or propose something?
-
goffi
What are the topics?
-
MattJ
I'll copy them into the pad now
-
MattJ
When I can see the board
-
goffi
Thanks
-
mathieui
https://upload.mathieui.net/upload/gCIvwoRycYURD9fwRXRMcFi1/OhP2MSAqSCuR0VUyG8enog.jpg
-
singpolyma
mostly the usual ;)
-
mathieui
Not too late for proposing MIX yet
-
mathieui
Though you might get things thrown at you
-
goffi
Maybe adding a foundation in EU
-
singpolyma
> Not too late for proposing MIX yet what do you think the GC3 topic will bring up? ↺
-
mathieui
singpolyma, I thinkg MattJ has a different idea on where to steer the discussion :p
-
singpolyma
A different overall plan, but you know it's going to come up
-
goffi
Not necessarily enough for a topic, but I would like to know if there is a plan to move to omemo:2, we feel lonely with Kaidan.
-
MattJ
goffi, https://pad.nixnet.services/s/aNzSdtrpZ is a read-only view of the current pad, suitable for mobile
-
goffi
One station to go
-
MattJ
GC3 slides: https://matthewwild.co.uk/uploads/xmpp-gc3-jan-2025.pdf
-
singpolyma
I don't understand why "different clients show differently" would be not great? Isn't that the whole point of having different clients?
-
mathieui
singpolyma, I would say that showing things differently is expected from different clients, but showing different things is an issue
-
goffi
What is "Group Chat 3" ? Is it MIX 2?
-
mathieui
goffi, MattJ is going there
-
mathieui
(we are at the problem statement of the presentation)
-
goffi
Sorry I've missed the beginning, I thought we were on MUC PUSH, whatever this is.
-
goffi
What is "User Account Configuration" about (I mean, exept "it's about user account configuration"). What do we want to configure, notifications? Something else?
-
Intosi
II'm sure questions like these will be answered when the topic is discussed :)
-
goffi
Yeah, I'm asking a highlight so I can vote knowing what I'm voting on.
-
goffi
I'm not asking to do the topic on the chat ;)
-
singpolyma
> Request to join (βknockingβ) with approval MUC has this already, though I'm unaware of any implementation
-
Kev
https://github.com/swift/protoxeps/blob/master/acl.md - proposal for ACLs that GC3 can use. https://github.com/swift/protoxeps/blob/master/gc3.md - some early GC3 thoughts.
-
singpolyma
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#regapprove
-
singpolyma
With my council hat on, avoid protoxep until drafting and prototyping are done IMO
-
singpolyma
I know not all of council agrees there
-
singpolyma
https://modules.prosody.im/mod_ping_muc.html
-
Kev
https://github.com/swift/protoxeps/blob/master/related-entities.md
-
singpolyma
any concerns around baking in occupant id causing privacy concerns?
-
singpolyma
If anyone actually wants multi-PM (which I don't fully say we should) https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0033.html is the thing
-
larma
singpolyma, 0033 only provides sending to multiple people, it doesn't have the semantic of a group. Existing clients will display 0033 messages as just regular messages from that sender.
-
singpolyma
yes it's definitely not a group, but rather a multi-PM. And yes there's no perfect fallback story
-
singpolyma
sure, I agree. the privacy concerns exist with MUC and with GC3 :) but maybe no one turns out to care and it's fine
-
singpolyma
No one has semi-anon but us I think, heh
π 1 -
singpolyma
There's no way to search for channels in slack either since they don't have public groups...
-
singpolyma
(you can search inside your workspace once you've joined but that's not public)
-
hook
In (the unlikely) case you need some help with the licensing, I'm very happy to help. (foss lawyer and all that)
-
eevvoor
hook, do you also make datasecurity GDPR stuff?
-
eevvoor
I am looking for a lawyer for that.
-
eevvoor
(sorry in case I've asked you before, I am overworked)
-
hook
eevvoor: (un)luckily (for you/me), no. I can suggest someone though, esp. if you let me know the jurisdiction that is the most relevant.
-
hook
Feel free to ping me at xmpp:hook@campfire.wheremymonkeyis.at or mailto:matija@suklje.name
-
hook
I am at FOSDEM too, just a different Fringe event
-
singpolyma
discussing more often on the standards list or in the xsf mucs is fine by me. I don't think this means we should be submitting things that should not be implemented as xeps
-
eevvoor
> Feel free to ping me at xmpp:hook@campfire.wheremymonkeyis.at or mailto:matija@suklje.name Thx I will. ↺
π 1 -
hook
>> Feel free to ping me at mailto:matija@suklje.name > Thx I will. matija@suklje.email is better (sorry, tired due to HackerTrain)
-
eevvoor
no prob :D
-
gnemmi
hook, you are a lawyer too?
-
singpolyma
related things top of mind for me: * a way to delete an http uploaded item explicitly (eg when retracting) * a way to extend the retention of an existingly uploaded item (instead of uploading a duplicate)
-
hook
gnemmi: yes. Specialising in (IP,) FOSS licensing and governance
-
singpolyma
I'd be very concerned about fetching avatars over http also, but that's not really related it's just the concerning use case being discussed
-
goffi
Actually expiry can be implemented on top of https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0498.html , with `pubsub#item_expire`
-
goffi
and bucked can be done with pubsub node relationship.
ποΈ 1 -
goffi
we have already everything we need.
-
goffi
from the client point of view, it's trivial.
-
goffi
(just pubsub node configuration + item retraction for explicit deletion)
-
gnemmi
yup .. retention time in the scope of data protection
-
Daniel
https://share.gultsch.de/daniel/N9ochCnuzKXqKiMq/WhatsApp_-_Overview_-_3rd_Party_Developer_Guide_283762107.1_-1.pdf
-
Daniel
^ the whatsapp api
-
Daniel
probably an earlier draft than what they have now
-
singpolyma
is that not under NDA?
-
MattJ
"Not any more"? :)
-
mathieui
singpolyma, thatβs the high level overview, I guess itβs not that secret
-
Daniel
to be clear the daniel that uploaded the pdf is not me
π 1 -
MattJ
:)
-
gnemmi
Exactly. The object of the DMA is to regulate the activity of Gatekeepers =/
-
singpolyma
are there any xmpp service providers in europe that could have standing?
-
gnemmi
hook, may confirm .. but I'm pretty positive that the answer is no ..
-
gnemmi
I fail to see how the DMA would apply to an XMPP provider as none of them could ever be consider a "Gatekeeper"
-
gnemmi
At leas from my point of view ..
-
gnemmi
s/point of view/understanding of the law
-
MattJ
Right, but the point of the DMA is to allow smaller providers to interop with the gatekeepers
-
singpolyma
they wouldn't be a gatekeeper but they could be someone who wants to interoperate with a gatekeeper
-
singpolyma
I have an org that would be interested for example, but we are not in europe
-
gnemmi
It is ... yes. But the burden is on the Gatekeeper :S
-
hook
Haven't looked at DMA much yet. Currently still catching up with CRA, which is more relevant to work
-
singpolyma
I think as said the only issue is having a plan for how to spend the money. If we actually have a concrete thing to spend it on, raising it is doable
-
gnemmi
Ok, so .. time to have lunch now, I guess?.
-
singpolyma
once lunch break is over it will finally be time for people in my house to get out of bed
-
gnemmi
Will see what I can do .. it's only 9:05 in the morning over here ...
-
gnemmi
singpolyma, west coast?
-
singpolyma
north america eastern time
-
gnemmi
Oh .. I see ..
-
gnemmi
I'm in south america .. GMT -3000 π
-
Benson
GMT+3, not too bad when remote.
-
Kev
UTC+1!
-
Seve/SouL
> UTC+1! This π
-
gnemmi
13:45 for you guys?
-
Seve/SouL
Yea✎ -
Seve/SouL
Yes ✏
-
gnemmi
You are probably starving by now .. I know I would .. π
-
Kev
I was out for lunch at the time.
-
Kev
We've resumed the Summit if anyone doesn't realise.
-
gnemmi
thank you π
-
singpolyma
I'm not really sure why people always talk about round trips. Is XMPP connection time ever noticeable on human timescales?
-
Kev
Certainly is for some cases.
-
Intosi
It is for me when I'm hiking, and coverage is sparse.
-
singpolyma
Intosi: interesting. I guess the poor coverage results in very high latency connection?
-
singpolyma
Using HTTP records with WebTransport would be a neat way forward for a number of things though, I do like that
-
Intosi
Yup. HSPA or even EDGE is not uncommon, and dog slow.
-
Intosi
Eh, GPRS and EDGE.
-
singpolyma
caps hash in items would be fire
-
Link Mauve
Andrzej, https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0390.html#usecases-stream-feature
-
singpolyma
yeah hash in features + hash in items seems like it basically solves this
-
moparisthebest
singpolyma: connect a client over https://github.com/tylertreat/Comcast
-
singpolyma
Account config. Yay ad hoc commands!
-
singpolyma
ad hoc commands + some notification thing after you finish the command
-
singpolyma
agree that +notify for private nodes is a bit of a weird hack
-
singpolyma
to things that aren't pep nodes or to things that are pep nodes I can't publish to, etc
-
singpolyma
I think it's fine if it's pep-formatted for the notification payload
-
MattJ
Just feels weird to do that if it's not a real PEP node
-
singpolyma
I think there's no reason to think of things as a "real PEP node". PEP is a protocol on the wire for talking about publishing or getting notified of things
-
singpolyma
I think we're only discussing things that the server needs to understand here. server account config stuff
-
MattJ
PEP notifications include node='...'. If we make it node='urn:xmpp:account-config', fine. But then what if a client (probably a buggy one) then creates that node?
-
MattJ
and configures it to be public, etc. :)
-
MattJ
and publishes stuff there
-
singpolyma
you mean if the server didn't support this feature?
-
MattJ
Either case
-
MattJ
Also note that servers could not support this feature on day 1, and support it on day 2
-
singpolyma
well if the server does support the server would consider that node to exist and be owned by the server. error if you try to create it or publish to it
-
singpolyma
but yes if they don't support it then there's a case there where once you enable it if the node exists you need to decide what do
-
singpolyma
I just don't think "real pep node" is a thing. it is real inasmuch as anything is, sure
-
singpolyma
ad hoc buys you the ability for the server to add new things the client is unaware of
-
singpolyma
and the user can still configure them
-
singpolyma
without special support
-
singpolyma
Gajim, Movim, Cheogram at least for ad hoc
-
singpolyma
(also psi, jabber.el, some other smaller / older stuff)
-
singpolyma
no reason it has to be even just one command / one form
-
singpolyma
Goffi: I don't think "advertise when there are new fields" is that useful for the account config case, since you're not going to do anything with that knowledge in a client
-
goffi
fair
-
dwd
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc8600/
-
dwd
Generic iodef over XMPP.
-
singpolyma
haha, is that a XEP written as an RFC? Amazing
-
goffi
I just find it weird to use ad-hoc to write to a pubsub node, when the mechansim is already there, we just need data validation.
-
singpolyma
goffi: I think ad hoc is the obvious choice for what is wanted and there's an open question of if a pubsub node is also useful in case notifications etc are useful. I honestly haven't seen a compelling use case for notification at all here but probably there is one of some kind
-
goffi
it depends what you put in your configuration node. Some data may be useful for your other devices for instance. But it's hard to say without knowing exactly what we put in this node.
-
singpolyma
The idea is this is changing server behaviour. It's configuration. The client should mostly not care what it is (except to show it to the user or similar maybe)
-
singpolyma
things like "block strangers on this account", "enable antispam on this account", "disable mam on this account"
-
singpolyma
I need to step away from the video for today unfortunately, good summit so far!
-
Arne
The video is gone again. ralphm ?
-
MattJ
Is it back?
-
Arne
yep, thanks!
-
Intosi
Regarding the dinner transportation: I suggest we take public transport. Convene at the entrance of the Thon at 18:00, and take the 18:14 metro from Maelbeek -> Hermann-Debroux (5), then take the R75 to Overijse. That should get us there at 18:50, which is bang on time. You can use contactless payment cards and Google Pay, Apple Pay, Fitbit Pay or Garmin Pay to pay for both the metro and the bus. This is probably the easiest and most convenient option for most. If contactless is not an option for you, ticket information is at https://www.visit.brussels/en/visitors/plan-your-trip/practical-info/getting-around/public-transport for the metro, and https://www.delijn.be/en/content/vervoerbewijzen/ for the bus bits. If you do this, please make sure you allow for some time to get a ticket.
-
Intosi
We must make sure we don't miss the last bus back to Brussels at 23:29. As we usually manage to finish around 23:00, that feels possible.
-
goffi
When is the taxi pick-up time please? I need to go to my hotel, and I may have to leave earlier if time is short.
-
mathieui
goffi, see above, no taxi
-
goffi
oh sorry, will read before writing next time
-
goffi
OK so I better go now
-
MattJ
https://modules.prosody.im/mod_client_management.html
-
Intosi
The route to the restaurant we're planning to take: https://maps.app.goo.gl/15U7Hij2w6ekgL329 So 18:00 downstairs in the Thon. Be there or be a rectangular thing.
-
Arne
Thanks for the work on xmppbl.org MattJ . This is a good help.
-
MattJ
Thanks!
-
ralphm
I double checked, but we are expected at 20:00.
-
Intosi
Ah. That's surprisingly late.
-
Intosi
Was that always the case?
-
ralphm
It is not later than last year
-
ralphm
And the year before was 19:30
-
Arne
Have a nice evening and dinner everyone!
-
Benson
Enjoy dinner.
-
Intosi
So change of times: meet downstairs at 18:45, and take this journey: https://maps.app.goo.gl/B1yyUCUqmqFsE9X1A
-
gnemmi
Enjoy your dinner you guys! π
-
emus
Have a great dinner. Wished I could be there and order well-done again π
-
intosi
Thank you. Also: π±.
-
emus
I won't do it again, no worries
-
Holger
emus: That was my plan! I'm used to the corresponding feedback.
-
Holger
Or do they kick you out of the restaurant?
-
Holger
(Or out of the XSF?)
-
Holger
https://jabber.fu-berlin.de/share/holger/77X8VCgeMict91xh/KZH1UlEoTJeuXcRKB-Bn8w.jpg
-
Holger
Are we leaving the blue zone?
-
Zash
When? Who? Why?!
-
mathieui
Holger: probably in the red zone
π 1 -
Holger
Thanks.
-
mathieui
(Above Hoeilaart AFAIK)