XSF Discussion - 2010-12-08

  1. Nÿco

    Council meeting in 0:30+? Board meeting in 1:30+

  2. Kev

    Correct for the former, don't know about the latter :)

  3. Nÿco


  4. bear starts editing the http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board wiki page to reflect current reality

  5. bear

    running to the corner store - just realized I am without beverage of choice

  6. bear

    why am I double posting?

  7. Kev

    You're not.

  8. bear

    psi is showing each twice, mine and yours

  9. Kev

    I suspect that you've joined the MUC from two resources, and your server is routing the ghost one instead of rejecting it (which it should, but (almost?) no-one does yet, as it's a relatively recent bis-ism)

  10. bear tries this again

  11. MattJ

    Prosody rejected it even before the spec was fixed :)

  12. bear

    meeting notes and agenda: http://typewith.me/geydlB7gFR

  13. bear

    Current working agenda: Agenda: - Roadmap - Summit 10 - Summit 10/FOSDEM - dividing responsibilities - Dinner - Limit to Members / Sponsors? - Location - Interop

  14. bear

    meeting to start in 10 minutes, will shoot for 35-40 minute timeframe, 2 rounds of me with claws and knives if we get to 50 minutes

  15. bear

    anyone have "eyes" on Jack? can they poke him

  16. Will


  17. bear

    oh - hehehe - I do also

  18. Will

    he'll start to feel persecuted

  19. bear

    or loved if he is into that kind of thing :/

  20. bear

    florian was here ...

  21. jack

    hi all

  22. bear

    hi jack

  23. Florian


  24. Nÿco

    hi all

  25. bear

    coolness - looks like we have 100%

  26. Florian

    on the dot :)

  27. bear bangs the gavel

  28. stpeter wanders back in

  29. bear

    anyone have any issues with the agenda as suggested by Nÿco

  30. stpeter

    looks good to me

  31. bear

    if so, edit the doc please

  32. bear

    ok, Item 1 - Roadmap

  33. bear

    I've started to edit the wiki page outlining this - not sure exactly (given my n00bness) what this involves

  34. bear

    what was done last year?

  35. Will

    nothing, which was kind of the point :-)

  36. Will

    of doing something this year

  37. bear

    ok then :) - i'll draft an email asking for suggestions and also giving some thoughts and report back next meeting - sound ok?

  38. Nÿco


  39. stpeter

    I think we had a good discussion among the members

  40. stpeter

    we just need to capture the conclusions somewhere

  41. Nÿco

    yes, thread needs summary

  42. stpeter

    I'd suggest a wordpress page

  43. bear

    yea, I was going to sift thru that for the big ideas

  44. stpeter

    rather than wiki

  45. stpeter

    I did post a summary

  46. Nÿco


  47. Nÿco

    missed it

  48. Nÿco

    can you remind where?

  49. bear

    oh coolness, that will make the task much easier

  50. stpeter


  51. stpeter

    there was some discussion after that

  52. Nÿco


  53. Will

    the wiki is for dicussions, wordpress/xmpp.org for announcements - so wordpress page yes

  54. stpeter

    but not much

  55. stpeter

    right, this is a more permanent page

  56. Nÿco

    ah yes, I remember now that I've read it

  57. bear

    *editor note: can someone update the typewith.me doc*

  58. stpeter

    it might not seem like it, but I'll have more time before long to help out further

  59. Nÿco

    you can

  60. stpeter

    bear: will do

  61. bear

    i'm hoping to be able to offload some of this from you if you don't mind :)

  62. stpeter

    from or to? :)

  63. bear


  64. Will

    on you :-)

  65. bear

    any other issues to worry about with the roadmap?

  66. stpeter

    bear: I think not

  67. bear

    moving on to item 2 (speak up if not)

  68. stpeter

    bear: the Council discussed this last week and concluded that focusing on MUC and file transfer for this term would be reasonable

  69. stpeter

    bear: I'll find the log for you

  70. bear


  71. jack

    seems good. i get a lot of questions about file transfer

  72. bear

    link in the notes is fine

  73. stpeter


  74. stpeter


  75. stpeter


  76. bear


  77. Florian

    yes :)

  78. Will

    announcements are out to members, will post to other places soon

  79. bear

    Will posted a great outline of the summit to the members list and has started a wiki page: http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2011

  80. Florian

    I've prepped a page on xmpp.org

  81. stpeter

    oh cool, in typewithme you can choose your color :)

  82. stpeter


  83. Florian


  84. Will

    I wanted to talk about division of responsibilities

  85. Florian

    is the FOSDEM booth / room confirmed?

  86. stpeter

    Florian: the room is, not sure about the booth, let's check

  87. Florian


  88. bear

    I noticed we have already started the annual t-shirt discussion

  89. stpeter

    stands have not yet been announced

  90. Will

    but we did put in a request, yes?

  91. dwd

    bear, Traditions are important.

  92. bear

    to me that's always the sign when planning is started for real

  93. stpeter

    http://fosdem.org/2011/ looks bad -- we need to put out a call for talks

  94. Will

    we have

  95. stpeter

    ah, so we need to tell them about the link :)

  96. Will


  97. Florian

    I wanted to start collecting participants on the XMPP.org page

  98. Florian

    through comments

  99. stpeter

    Florian: good idea

  100. stpeter

    Will: I can let the FOSDEM organizers know

  101. Florian

    I got someone at Nokia to forward a sponsor request

  102. Will

    stpeter: thats why i wanted ot talk about responsibilities....

  103. admin@im.flosoft.biz


  104. stpeter


  105. stpeter


  106. stpeter

    Will: you mean we need to get organized?

  107. Florian

    ok .. iPad works :)

  108. Will

    we need to make sure that not everything is your responsibility this year. spread the load a bit

  109. stpeter


  110. stpeter

    yeah, sure

  111. stpeter

    although others have done a lot in the past, e.g. Alex and Mickaël

  112. bear

    what areas of need are there?

  113. Will

    so for instance, if we get a booth, 'm happy to be the responsible adult for that :-)

  114. stpeter

    Will: much needed

  115. dwd


  116. Will

    shut up dwd, you're supposed to working

  117. Florian

    I guess I'm not allowed to do anything :(

  118. dwd

    Will, "from home" - doesn't count.

  119. bear

    dinner? who's organizing

  120. Will

    florian organises our social life

  121. Florian


  122. Florian

    I've been wondering ... Hotel ... Brussels vs. Diegem?

  123. stpeter


  124. stpeter

    are there hotels in the boondocks of Diegem?

  125. bear gets out his ruler in case any knuckles need whacking

  126. dwd

    stpeter, Bound to be some near the airport.

  127. Florian

    any Brussels Airport Hotel, yes

  128. stpeter

    Remko said the train to Diegem is a 15-minute ride from the center

  129. Florian


  130. stpeter

    and leaves every 30 minutes

  131. dwd

    Florian, Do they run late?

  132. stpeter

    or something like that

  133. stpeter


  134. stpeter


  135. Florian

    haha ... normally not

  136. stpeter

    we'll be working late?

  137. Will

    are we going for a hotel in brussels and ride out to diegem or the other way around?

  138. Florian

    they're better than SouthWest Trains

  139. stpeter


  140. Florian

    Will: right ...

  141. Florian

    Brussels at night has pubs

  142. Florian

    and nice places

  143. stpeter

    hotel in/near the center, train to the meetings

  144. dwd

    Florian, So's a horse and cart.

  145. jack

    better to be near the beer i think

  146. Florian

    Diegem is quite industrial

  147. stpeter


  148. Florian

    it's basically Airport land

  149. Florian

    the only thing there are business parks

  150. Florian

    and a small town center

  151. stpeter


  152. Florian

    Brussels is nicer

  153. stpeter


  154. Florian

    and seeing as we have FOSDEM

  155. Will

    trsut cisco to put an office somewhere boring ;-)

  156. stpeter

    you betcha

  157. Florian

    the thing on our Meetings

  158. Florian

    they end at a certain tie

  159. stpeter

    but at least we'll have Internet access this time

  160. Florian


  161. Florian

    FOSDEM is more flexible

  162. Florian

    so I think it's nicer to be in Brussels

  163. Florian

    yet ... I'll be the person living outside Brussels :p

  164. stpeter

    yes we all agree :)

  165. Will

    hotel organiser is ?

  166. stpeter

    so we need to find a hotel that might give us a discount?

  167. Florian

    I can be

  168. Florian

    yes ... Discount Hotel

  169. Nÿco

    ans Summit room?

  170. Florian

    what about the one last year?

  171. Florian

    good or bad?

  172. Nÿco

    with hardcore wifi

  173. Nÿco

    wifi sucked

  174. stpeter

    Nÿco: I've arranged to use a meeting room at the Cisco office in Diegem, outside Brussels (near the airport)

  175. Nÿco


  176. stpeter

    boring location, but better connectivity

  177. Nÿco


  178. stpeter

    there is also a catering service of some kind, I need to find out more about that for lunch and coffee

  179. Florian


  180. stpeter

    so I can handle that stuff via Cisco

  181. bear

    sounds like we have hotel/dinner consensus of some kind - who is going to follow up?

  182. Florian


  183. Florian

    Dinner up next?

  184. stpeter

    yes, dinner

  185. Florian

    so ...

  186. bear

    who is point person for hotel?

  187. Florian

    as posted to board@

  188. Nÿco

    - devroom: ?? - hackfest: ??

  189. stpeter

    Florian is hotel point person

  190. Florian

    bear: I can manage hotel

  191. bear

    k, sorry - just saw typewith.me update

  192. stpeter

    Nÿco: right we need to discuss those, too

  193. Will

    as Nyco pointed out, still need devroom and hackfest organisers

  194. Florian

    Devroom is Saturday?

  195. stpeter


  196. Will


  197. Florian

    no volunteers?

  198. Will

    who is going to be there? stpeter? bear?

  199. bear

    I am collecting speaker list but won't be able to coordinate space/location

  200. Florian

    I can:)

  201. stpeter

    regarding the devroom, we need someone to arrange the schedule of talks etc.

  202. bear

    I can handle the talk schedule

  203. dwd


  204. Florian

    I'm a student ... so I've got loads of free time :)

  205. stpeter


  206. Will

    bear = devroom

  207. Florian


  208. bear

    with onsite help via florian ;)

  209. Florian

    sure :)

  210. stpeter

    I know some of the FOSDEM guys now so I can work with them onsite as needed

  211. Will


  212. Florian


  213. Kev

    Sorry, was saying Hi to Cath.

  214. stpeter

    yes, Florian and I can work with the FOSDEM folks onsite

  215. Kev

    What did you volunteer me for, Dave?

  216. stpeter

    and Ralph, too, slackr that he is :)

  217. Will

    Kev, it's ok you escaped

  218. Florian


  219. Kev


  220. bear

    kev can do hackfest then

  221. Will


  222. Florian


  223. stpeter

    what's needed for the hackfest?

  224. Kev

    Righty, am I going to FOSDEM then? )

  225. Kev


  226. Nÿco

    do we have a room for this?

  227. Florian

    I'm trying to get some phones from Noknok

  228. Will

    come up with interesting topics, herd cats

  229. bear

    warm body for room?

  230. Florian

    I guess start / announce on Friday .. prize on Monday

  231. stpeter

    hackfest = interop or something more?

  232. stpeter

    oh, that hackfest

  233. stpeter

    the code contest?

  234. Florian


  235. Florian

    /that/ hackfest

  236. Florian

    Friday @ Cisco?

  237. stpeter

    hackfest = Friday

  238. jack

    i can bring more books for prizes

  239. stpeter

    yeah, I need to do that too

  240. Florian

    I'd say Interop and coding?

  241. stpeter

    last year it was somewhat chaotic, no?

  242. Florian

    with at the end a lightning round of "progress"?

  243. stpeter

    perhaps our Interop Week folks can help organize some interop stuff on Friday

  244. stpeter

    lightning talks are fun

  245. stpeter


  246. stpeter

    that breaks it up a bit, too

  247. Florian

    I'll be there on Friday this year too :)

  248. stpeter

    me too

  249. stpeter

    I think :)

  250. Florian


  251. Florian

    so yeah, Hackfest ... Interop & Jingle Mingle?

  252. bear

    sounds like something for list discussion?

  253. Will


  254. Florian


  255. stpeter


  256. stpeter

    take it to the list!

  257. Kev

    Anyway, I'm happy to run Friday, assuming I'm going (and I'm assuming I'm going, but haven't discussed with anyone yet).

  258. bear

    kev - can you start that list discussion?

  259. Kev

    Can do. What would we like to do with the day?

  260. stpeter

    that's the question :)

  261. bear

    it needs to be engaging, so we may need to find out what the topics of interest are first

  262. bear

    but it sounds like summary lightning talks are an "in"

  263. stpeter

    I think I have a smaller room arranged for Friday, let me see how many it seats

  264. Florian


  265. stpeter

    I think it's 25

  266. stpeter

    and 40 on Monday

  267. stpeter

    or something like that

  268. stpeter

    (round numbers)

  269. Florian


  270. bear

    ok to move on to next item?

  271. Florian


  272. stpeter

    usually Friday is smaller

  273. stpeter


  274. stpeter

    almost up to 30 minutes here

  275. Florian

    so ... I added Limiting Dinner to Members

  276. Nÿco

    heckfest/interop around file transfer also

  277. Florian

    and Sponsors

  278. Will

    and me

  279. bear

    dinner: question about limiting to members

  280. Florian

    the problem:

  281. Florian

    it's close to impossible to find a restaurant that will seat 50 geeks :)

  282. stpeter

    Nÿco: yes

  283. stpeter


  284. stpeter


  285. Florian

    in Brussels it's impossible

  286. Will

    how aobut we dont tell them we're geeks?

  287. Florian

    haha :)

  288. Kev

    I don't see much reason to be seating people with no prior or subsequent interaction with the community.

  289. dwd

    I raised this with Florian, and I'm fine with non-members turning up, but I'm not so happy that the XSF is subsidizing them.

  290. Florian

    and there's a point to make ... Why should I be an XSF member?

  291. Will

    Kev - money

  292. Florian


  293. Kev

    Will: That would be an interaction.

  294. Kev

    It happened this year that people turned up for FOSDEM, ate the food, and that was about all that I'd seen of them before or since.

  295. Florian

    so I'd say.. limit it to XSF Member+1 and Sponsors

  296. dwd

    Will, Oh, for sure - if someone's paying sufficient that the net result is that they're still subsidizing XSF members, great.

  297. bear

    members and sponsor reps == great idea IMO

  298. Kev

    I'm happy for sponsors to have seats, I'm happy for members to have seats.

  299. Kev

    I don't see why non-community-members should get seats outside those groups, and certainly not why the XSF (through sponsors) should pay for them.

  300. Will

    we've already told sponsors they can have seats: http://xmpp.org/sponsor/sponsor-the-xsf/

  301. Florian


  302. dwd

    Will, Right, that's fine.

  303. Florian

    I'd say ... Sponsors + Dinner Sponsors

  304. bear

    sounds like we are all agreeing vigorously about the same small cluster of ideas - should we stamp it as board approved?

  305. Kev

    Florian: And members? :)

  306. Will


  307. Florian

    oh yeah ... those too

  308. Florian


  309. Florian

    bear: yes!

  310. stpeter

    so members can bring a guest, or non-members pay their own way?

  311. dwd

    Florian, you suggested +1 - I'm not convinced that's needed. Yes, this is a social thing, but still.

  312. Florian


  313. Florian

    what about "Dinner Sponsors"

  314. Florian

    like Vodafone for example

  315. Florian

    they're not a Sponsor

  316. stpeter

    make them sponsors?

  317. Florian

    but a "Dinner Sponsor"

  318. Kev

    stpeter: Apart from sponsors, I think non-members should have to at least pay their way, if they're elligible at all.

  319. Florian

    well ... Dinner sponsors are smaller contributions

  320. Florian

    like 100€

  321. Florian


  322. stpeter


  323. stpeter


  324. bear

    that sounds like a great way to get a foot in the door to an organization for later larger sponsorship

  325. Will

    dwd: some people turn up with partners, excluding them could lead to problems

  326. dwd

    I'm fine with anyone showing up if they're paying (at least) their way.

  327. Florian


  328. Florian

    so ... to sum up ...

  329. Florian

    Members +1 for the price of the dinner (50€) Sponsors: As per Sponsor chart Dinner Sponsors

  330. Florian

    those can get access...

  331. Florian

    i.e. Nokia ... it's easier for them to sponsor a single dinner, than getting them to become an XSF sponsor

  332. Florian

    don't ask me why ... it just is :)

  333. stpeter


  334. Florian

    so I want to keep the "dinner sponsor" thing going

  335. Florian

    as we had loads of people just pitching in 100@

  336. bear

    one is easier to hide in the accounting books :)

  337. Florian

  338. Florian

    and the 100€ resulted each year in free food :)

  339. bear

    sounds like we have consensus then on the dinner agenda item - true?

  340. Kev

    From the balcony, yes.

  341. stpeter

    now the challenge is to find a pace to eat :)

  342. Florian

    ah right

  343. stpeter


  344. Florian

    Will will need to pay :D

  345. dwd

    Florian, Ha!

  346. Florian

    I guess that means Isode "Will" need to sponsor :D

  347. bear looks around for something to throw at Florian

  348. Florian


  349. bear

    k, next up - Interop

  350. Florian

    I guess it's progressing ...

  351. Florian

    I'd like to see this become an ongoing effort

  352. bear

    I am liking the idea of doing this on a very regular basis

  353. Florian

    i.e. keep the test servers up for longer

  354. Florian

    because we spent a lot of time just setting them up, getting certs etc.

  355. stpeter

    how "very"?

  356. stpeter

    quarterly? monthly?

  357. bear

    well, maybe not up all the time, but if we can get the configs documented ...

  358. Will

    very regular could mean once every 10 years, hope you mean frequent

  359. stpeter

    Florian: right, it would be good to build on all that work

  360. Kev

    I don't think it's a good idea to have the servers stay up.

  361. Florian

    every 2 months?

  362. bear

    biologically regular, not astronically regular ;)

  363. Florian

    for a week?

  364. bear

    wow - what word was that I just typed

  365. Kev

    I do think it's good to keep the configs (especially the CA) around.

  366. stpeter

    Kev: yes

  367. dwd

    Kev, Running up a CA, even, is pretty easy.

  368. bear

    I think every 3 months with CA and DNS always up

  369. Kev

    One week every 2 months is 13% of the participants time, if it takes them most of their time to do it.

  370. Florian

    bear: +1

  371. Florian


  372. bear

    it doesn't have to be full time for someone all week

  373. Florian

    that way, there's also progress in between

  374. Kev

    bear: I've spent quite a lot of this week on it.

  375. Will

    its better to aim low and over-perform than the other way around.

  376. bear

    yea, but that's upfront setup - will that be required in 3 months?

  377. Kev

    I don't see why it wouldn't.

  378. dwd

    I have to say we're looking at one now, some interop activity at the summits - that's a lot of time on this.

  379. bear

    ok, then let's use that as the baseline

  380. Kev

    Another 6 months before another one would be good, I think.

  381. admin@im.flosoft.biz


  382. bear

    6 months sounds ok to me

  383. stpeter


  384. Will

    6 yes

  385. bear

    especially since I have no dog in this hunt

  386. dwd

    I'm fine with aiming for 6 months for the next online one. If we find a need to do one sooner, then that's also okay.

  387. Kev


  388. Kev

    Doing them too often just devalues them.

  389. admin@im.flosoft.biz

    Ok... I mean we have the summits too

  390. Kev

    If they become a burden for participants, there won't be any, and that's bad.

  391. admin@im.flosoft.biz

    With interop action

  392. stpeter


  393. bear

    doing server interop at the summit at oscon was *very* time consuming - especially for a one day event

  394. bear

    so I could see summit interop being limited to clients and/or libs

  395. admin@im.flosoft.biz

    Hmm... Ok

  396. Kev

    bear: If the summit has sensible 'net access, it's not impossible to re-use the infrastructure.

  397. bear

    kev - true, that was what we spent a lot of time on - the net access was not sensible :(

  398. admin@im.flosoft.biz

    That's why I want to keep it up

  399. bear

    ok - we are at 45 minutes

  400. dwd

    Kev, But we can also spin up a new CA for that easily. Same with DNS, it's not hard. Just that *any* interop setup like this takes time.

  401. stpeter

    let's continue the interop discussion after this week finishes

  402. stpeter

    and see how people feel then

  403. admin@im.flosoft.biz


  404. bear

    +1 to tabling to after meeting and to the lists

  405. bear

    ok, any other agenda items to consider?

  406. stpeter

    then we'll have a better idea of costs and benefits

  407. admin@im.flosoft.biz

    Not from my end

  408. Will

    none here

  409. stpeter

    bear: I still owe you that old sponsor list, will do before Christmas

  410. bear

    the next board meeting would be the 22nd of December - is that going to be too close to the holidays for anyone?

  411. bear

    stpeter: thanks

  412. admin@im.flosoft.biz


  413. stpeter

    22nd is fine with me

  414. Will

    i'm ok for 22nd

  415. jack

    should be alright here

  416. bear


  417. bear

    ok, 22nd it is

  418. bear

    thanks one and all for another great meeting

  419. bear bangs the gavel

  420. Will

    bye all

  421. stpeter

    thanks, everyone

  422. Nÿco


  423. admin@im.flosoft.biz

    I guess that's a maybe...

  424. bear goes to post minutes

  425. admin@im.flosoft.biz

    Fucking freezing my hands off here on this iCrap

  426. stpeter updates the calendar

  427. bear

    stpeter - use the non-ietf muc link this time ;)

  428. stpeter


  429. stpeter

    hadn't noticed that

  430. admin@im.flosoft.biz

    Bye guys

  431. stpeter

    calendar updated in git, let's see if Tobias's auto-updating works :)

  432. bear

    minutes emailed

  433. bear updates board wiki page

  434. stpeter

    thanks, bear

  435. stpeter wonders why his calendar isn't popping up reminders for XSF events

  436. bear

    hmm, where do I edit this page: http://xmpp.org/xsf/board/

  437. stpeter

    http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/the-xsf-board-of-directors/ is the new link

  438. stpeter

    we need to set up a whole bunch of redirects

  439. bear

    I got to that page from the main page

  440. stpeter

    so we need to fix some hrefs, too :)

  441. bear


  442. stpeter

    I need to spend some quality time with the website

  443. bear

    the wiki main page I meant - sorry

  444. bear

    i can fix that tho...

  445. stpeter


  446. stpeter


  447. bear

    k, back to my regularly scheduled day off...

  448. stpeter


  449. stpeter

    thanks, bear

  450. stpeter

    I appreciate it

  451. bear

    thanks to you also :)

  452. stpeter


  453. bear

    oh hey - been meaning to ask, sorry for the ambush: did GSoC funds arrive or is there anything we need to follow up with them?

  454. stpeter

    I haven't seen the funds yet, but I'm not on the discussion list -- shall I ping LH?

  455. bear

    I don't think it's been talked about at all - I can ping her with my "Admin" hat on

  456. stpeter


  457. bear

    I was just reminded because I got my tshirt in the mail

  458. stpeter

    I don't remember the chronology of payment from years past

  459. bear

    I can use "this being my first time, so forgive me my n00bness" wording then

  460. stpeter


  461. stpeter