XSF Discussion - 2011-11-23

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  22. stpeter hi Ashley!
  23. Ashley Roach hey!
  24. stpeter it seems that Florian won't be able to make it
  25. stpeter I don't have a JID for Chris Christou
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  29. Ashley On the good news front, I've made some progress with the marketing folks at Cisco per my earlier email
  30. stpeter I admit to being out of the loop because of my trip to Taipei last week
  31. Ashley sure, of course :)
  32. stpeter aha, there's a JID for Chris at http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Chris_Christou_for_Board_2011
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  35. Kev Ashley: I note that you're using a gmail.com JID, and that service has bugs that prevent proper working with MUC rooms.
  36. Kev Ashley: particularly, you're going to be changing nicks every five minutes until you log off, now.
  37. Ashley oh goodie
  38. Kev Or three minutes, or whatever their timer is set to.
  39. Kev I suggest you don't change nicknames in a MUC room while using a Google Talk account.
  40. Kev (Well, actually, I suggest not using Google Talk accounts with MUC at all, but the above is a more moderate suggestion)
  41. Much Better Ashley has joined
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  44. Much Better Ashley ok
  45. stpeter haha
  46. stpeter Ashley Roach: you might be happier with your @cisco.com JID :)
  47. Much Better Ashley yeah, i guess that'd work too
  48. Kev For the benefit of us plebs without such priviledged information, are we expecting a meeting today? (i.e. do we have apologies from anyone etc.)
  49. bear today was a "hi, i'm Foo" meeting with some minimal discussion if enough showed up
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  51. bear I wasn't expecting anything formal except, maybe, a meeting time decision
  52. Kev I have an agenda request for the first formal meeting :)
  53. stpeter heh
  54. Kev I'd like to split the board list in two, so we have board@xmpp.org and board-incamera@xmpp.org or such.
  55. Kev And that while the second list (not open) is available when necessary, mundane things like meeting schedules and apologies and the like are all handled on the former, which would be open (for subscribing and reading).
  56. Kev (I'm not convinced that a great amount of the Board discussion needs to be in camera, but at least this provides a means to it where necessary)
  57. bear sounds like a great discussion for our first meeting :)
  58. stpeter ok, finished with my W3C conference call, now I have more attention
  59. Kev It also provides a means for interested parties to track discussions where (shock, horror, it could never happen) there's the possibility of Board maybe dropping the ball on something, such that they can effectively chase progress.
  60. Kev On top of the obvious openness.
  61. Tobias has joined
  62. stpeter I'm all in favor of transparency
  63. Kev Well done Tobias, there's now as many Council members at the first Board meeting as there are Board members :D
  64. stpeter another option is to have most of the discussion on the members@ list
  65. Tobias Kev, yay
  66. stpeter and use board@ for truly private matters
  67. Kev stpeter: I have no problem with board having a non-noisey list to which us plebs can't post, if that's what they'd like.
  68. bear +1 to that option
  69. Kev bear: Which option
  70. Kev ?
  71. bear very little the board discusses is private, no reason to not use members@ for most things and use board@ for the other
  72. stpeter agreed
  73. Kev That works for me, naturally :)
  74. bear it's kinda how we were leaning towards the end of last term
  75. Much Better Ashley i like the idea of using the members list, would we add [board] to the subject?
  76. bear so we should just start that way with this board
  77. bear ashley - that would work
  78. Kev Much Better Ashley: That seems a sensible suggestion. Or just obvious subject lines like "Board agenda" :)
  79. Much Better Ashley the other possibility, but adds work, is to post board minutes and the like to the members list
  80. Kev Much Better Ashley: I want realtime access, rather than belated :)
  81. Kev The minutes already get posted.
  82. Much Better Ashley seems like extra overhead that none of us would really want to do anyway
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  84. Much Better Ashley Kev: k
  85. stpeter WFM
  86. stpeter well, we even have former Board members here ;-)
  87. Much Better Ashley so, to summarize use members@ for majority of conversation; board@ is for private or coordination
  88. Kev Much Better Ashley: s/or coordination//
  89. Much Better Ashley ok
  90. stpeter Kev: we might want to talk about culling the number of @xmpp.org lists sometime, too -- do we really need ws-xmpp@xmpp.org for instance? ;-)
  91. Kev (If by coordination you mean things like arranging meetings, etc. I hadn't realised there was a board meeting now, for example, nor even after I'd noticed it in the calendar did I know which Board members were expecting to turn up :))
  92. stpeter Kev: right, exactly
  93. Kev stpeter: I'm all up for a cull.
  94. bear kev - the first meeting was tough because of travel, holidays, etc - and today was more of a "hey, peter is available, let's do it"
  95. Kev Right.
  96. Kev But by discussing this in public, us mere Members would know this :)
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  98. stpeter Kev: do we really need the council@ list? coordination items could be discussed on the standards@ list :)
  99. stpeter foresees the day when we have only two lists, standards@ and members@ :)
  100. MattJ I like jdev
  101. stpeter that's at jabber.org :P
  102. MattJ Good point :)
  103. Kev stpeter: If people want to do that, I'm not strictly opposed.
  104. MattJ Me neither, to be honest
  105. waqas By the way, can someone delete the board@muc.xmpp.org room, if board meetings are supposed to be here?
  106. Kev I have a slight concern with whether it'd get noisey.
  107. Kev (Which is also why I proposed opening the Board list, rather than having everything on members@)
  108. stpeter I'll take a look at http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo sometime soon
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  110. Kev But as long as we keep the option to revert to council@ if it gets silly I certainly don't have a problem with a trial on standards@
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  112. stpeter Kev: I realize that people can subscribe to council@ but somehow I doubt they do :)
  113. Kev Maybe that's ok, though, if they don't care.
  114. stpeter waqas: MattJ can do that, I think
  115. stpeter checks to see if he has perms
  116. MattJ nods, I'll do it now
  117. stpeter thanks, MattJ!
  118. stpeter Kev: but I suppose I can bring up Council communication policies in the Council meeting :)
  119. Kev You can, as long as you don't take it over 30 minutes.
  120. stpeter :P
  121. Will has left
  122. stpeter needs to install a jabber client on his shiny new iphone
  123. bear gavels the unstarted board meeting closed
  124. stpeter laughs
  125. Kev bear: Thanks :D
  126. stpeter this was just a sound check, it seems
  127. bear I know how much the Council loves punctuality and short meetings :)
  128. Much Better Ashley is the xsf meeting in Feb 2012 happening?
  129. Kev I believe so.
  130. Kev Or, at least, there's a discussion about it later today :)
  131. stpeter anyway there will be various FOSDEM activities
  132. Much Better Ashley k, i don't see it yet on the world wide webs, and i'm seeing if i can get cisco to sponsor something
  133. Kev I don't suppose Cisco have London offices instead? :D
  134. stpeter whether there will be more than that (e.g., Friday and Monday meetings), remains to be seen
  135. Much Better Ashley i have no idea
  136. Much Better Ashley but i have to imagine they do
  137. stpeter Cisco has offices everywhere
  138. Kev (I have a long standing grumble about Brussels not being my favourite place, but truth be told I'm lazy and don't like travelling to foreign climes)
  139. stpeter there's a fairly big office north of London, IIRC
  140. Much Better Ashley i was thinking along the lines of schwag and/or something related to hackathon/dev challenge
  141. stpeter we almost held an IESG retreat there, but the office was closed for the Royal Wedding™
  142. Tobias hahaha
  143. Much Better Ashley maybe a t-shirt like — i participated in this hackathon, and all i got was a lousy t-shirt
  144. Much Better Ashley :D
  145. Much Better Ashley but hopefully something a little more enticing
  146. stpeter Much Better Ashley: we can always give a Cius ;-)
  147. Much Better Ashley anyway, sounds like i can press ahead, and we'll see what i can get
  148. Much Better Ashley stpeter: you joke, but that's one of my options :)
  149. Much Better Ashley it has xmpp on board i hear
  150. Much Better Ashley are we done?
  151. stpeter yes
  152. stpeter we've all moved to the council@ chatroom :)
  153. Much Better Ashley ADD board
  154. bear :)
  155. bear if this time works for the US side of the house, then we need to confirm that it's ok for the EU side
  156. Much Better Ashley :D
  157. Much Better Ashley works great for me
  158. bear me also, and I think sans holiday-travel-burnout, it works for peter
  159. stpeter yepper
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  165. Florian hi there
  166. MattJ Hi
  167. MattJ Is the FOSDEM meeting in here?
  168. Florian there's a FOSDEM meeting?
  169. Steffen Larsen in 30 minutes
  170. Florian ah yes, it seems that's today
  171. MattJ I don't think a venue was mentioned, but I'm assuming it's here
  172. MattJ I wonder if stpeter remembers :)
  173. Steffen Larsen have to check my mail
  174. Steffen Larsen no.. there was no muc in the mail
  175. Steffen Larsen but i assume it is here
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  178. stpeter yep, this is the place, sorry about not mentioning a venue
  179. stpeter well....
  180. stpeter invites ralphm
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  182. ralphm HI!
  183. Florian evening all
  184. MattJ LO!
  185. stpeter hey Ralph
  186. stpeter now the party can begin :)
  187. ralphm I appear to be experiencing some lag
  188. ralphm So...
  189. ralphm FOSDEM 2012, the place to be
  190. stpeter indeed
  191. ralphm We have secured a Devroom on Saturday.
  192. stpeter maybe this year we can send in our devroom schedule on time ;-)
  193. ralphm Indeed
  194. stpeter linuxwolf said he could give a talk about end-to-end encryption (everyone's favorite topic)
  195. ralphm The deadline for submission of our schedule to the FOSDEM crew is 21 January
  196. stpeter right
  197. stpeter so we need to start recruiting early
  198. ralphm So I think we should close submissions around the 7th
  199. stpeter yes
  200. stpeter ralphm: how many talks to we need? I assume we have only the morning or only the afternoon
  201. stpeter s/to/do/
  202. ralphm Unlike other years, we should be able to use 8 hours in the room
  203. stpeter wow
  204. stpeter not sure we have that much to say ;-)
  205. MattJ Oh dear, does this mean I don't get away with not submitting a talk?
  206. stpeter MattJ: correct!
  207. stpeter I suppose that someone might be able to give the traditional "XMPP 101" talk :)
  208. stpeter I am not yet sure if I will travel to FOSDEM
  209. Florian :)
  210. Florian Remko?
  211. stpeter but probably I'll end up being there
  212. ralphm they aren't sure yet about the exact times, but they figure they should be able to open the rooms at 9:30 or 10:00, to ensure session can start at 10:30, and the rooms will be closed at 18:30
  213. stpeter ok
  214. Florian we have the whole day?
  215. stpeter Florian: so it seems
  216. ralphm https://lists.fosdem.org/pipermail/devroom-managers/2011-November/000000.html gives some background information
  217. ralphm So this is really cool
  218. ralphm As for the room itself, this year it will be H.2213, which is in the H building, the same building that the registration desk is at.
  219. MattJ Fun
  220. Steffen Larsen why not H.264? ;-)
  221. ralphm Heh.
  222. stpeter :)
  223. ralphm I believe this room is one level above the hallways
  224. ralphm it has 100 seats
  225. stpeter it would be nice to have something related to xmpp and the web -- how to use some of the javascript libraries to do simple things like embed presence or basic chat in a web page
  226. ralphm If anyone has been to the MySQL devroom last year, it is that room.
  227. stpeter maybe I'll play around with some of the bot frameworks (I've been meaning to anyway) and give a talk about fun things you can do with bots in chatrooms (although other people are more qualified to talk about such things than I am :)
  228. ralphm Heh
  229. Steffen Larsen or components maybe
  230. stpeter Steffen Larsen: are you volunteering? ;-)
  231. stpeter ok
  232. Steffen Larsen stpeter: heh.. my GF will kill me if I go.. we just bought a house, and we are getting the keys at 1.feb. :-)
  233. MattJ brb, I have a pesky cat that wants feeding
  234. stpeter ralphm: is there anything else we need to plan? e.g., the stand?
  235. waqas has left
  236. ralphm I think it might be fruitful to give a list of suggestions of topics that people might want to submit a talk for
  237. Steffen Larsen but i really wanted to do a presentation.. let me see if i can do something about it
  238. stpeter Steffen Larsen: whatever works for you
  239. ralphm I've seen that done in other devrooms' call for participation
  240. stpeter ralphm: yes
  241. ralphm and then that call should be sent out
  242. stpeter how about a talk about the billion laughs attack?
  243. Florian how about the stands?
  244. Florian did we apply?
  245. ralphm on the FOSDEM mailinglist, our own list(s) and on the site
  246. ralphm ok, stands
  247. ralphm we did *not* yet apply
  248. stpeter ralphm: agreed
  249. ralphm and this has to do with people with plans for doing stuff
  250. Florian are applications open?
  251. ralphm I'm looking at dwd and florian here
  252. ralphm Applications are open already, but I wanted to have a good story ready before the actual submission.
  253. Florian dwd and I talked about it a few weeks ago
  254. Florian to do something different ... i.e. get a sort of "lounge"y space
  255. Florian so no table, but nice chairs
  256. Florian and some projectors
  257. stpeter do such spaces exist?
  258. ralphm the submission deadline is Dec 13.
  259. Florian ok
  260. ralphm Usually, 'stands' are one table, but you can also request two
  261. Florian the space could be anywhere, we just remove the "table"
  262. stpeter heh
  263. ralphm depending how good of a plan we have, we might want to request two
  264. ralphm to have enough space to pull this off
  265. Florian right
  266. ralphm stpeter: I'm not sure. Some things will be done differently this year.
  267. stpeter ok
  268. ralphm I don't think the normal hallways would be very suitable for this, though.
  269. stpeter it's not necessary to do everything the same way every year :)
  270. ralphm I like the lounge idea.
  271. Florian ralphm: could you find out if we'd be allowed to offer coffee?
  272. stpeter BTW, the federated social web folks did not get a room but might want to be active -- we could think about giving them some time on our 8-hour agenda
  273. Florian stpeter: sounds good
  274. ralphm stpeter: yes, indeed. Did someone contact you about this?
  275. stpeter ralphm: no, I just noticed a thread about it on their w3c.org list
  276. stpeter forwarding to members@xmpp.org
  277. ralphm hm, I'm not actually on that list
  278. stpeter http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/federatedsocialweb/
  279. stpeter there's a link on that page (it's a mailto: URL)
  280. Florian ok, so for the stands, does anyone else have some ideas?
  281. stpeter http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-federatedsocialweb/2011Nov/0017.html
  282. stpeter I too like the lounge idea
  283. Florian "The Real-time Lounge
  284. Florian "
  285. stpeter heh
  286. Florian with some XMPP demos on projectors
  287. Florian something like jack's Wall of Porn
  288. Florian or anything else that's awesome and uses XMPP
  289. dwd Evening. Sorry I'm asoutndingly late. My meeting overan. By a few hours.
  290. Florian preferably with which the FOSDEM users can interact with
  291. stpeter I wish I could get someone from http://www.skyalert.org/ to give a talk :)
  292. stpeter so that's one action item: find cool things to demonstrate
  293. dwd Right. Cool things, which needn't be *technically* cool. Just cool to look at.
  294. stpeter right :)
  295. dwd Ralph mentioned he could spin up some realtime social network stream, which sounded like a crowd-pleaser.
  296. stpeter yeah, everyone is getting so social these days....
  297. ralphm Yes, I'll see if I can put that up, as I will be leaving Mediamatic Lab.
  298. stpeter http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/jabberpad/id372857200?mt=8 might be a fun thing to demo
  299. stpeter although I don't have an iPad (yet)
  300. Florian I have one
  301. dwd Bear in mind we need to at least pretend the stuff we're demoing is open source, or uses open source, or something.
  302. stpeter that app might be open source, I can't remember
  303. MattJ stpeter, the whole world was anti-social before Twitter
  304. MattJ Nobody ever spoke to anyone else
  305. ralphm dwd: indeed
  306. stpeter MattJ: so true, and I long for the good old days :P
  307. dwd MattJ, TO be fair, I still try not to.
  308. ralphm dwd: although in our case, open protocols is good, too
  309. stpeter do we want or need to hold a hackfest or summit before or after FOSDEM itself?
  310. Much Better Ashley alternatively, could we spin up a prototype/demo that could be the subject of a talk — maybe that's what dwd said though
  311. ralphm stpeter: I think so, yes
  312. Much Better Ashley i'd like to see an open version of turntable.fm using xmpp
  313. Florian that would be awesome
  314. Florian especially as turntable.fm is not available in the UK
  315. stpeter ralphm: I was hoping we'd have made some progress on the XMPP validator before then so that we could make it the focus of hacking, but alas that might not be possible at this point
  316. Florian ah ... speaking of XMPP Validator
  317. Florian should we do the Summit on Friday / Monday?
  318. dwd Given we have free 3G in Brussels (I assume, Florian?), we might be able to knock up a demo involving Buddycloud and positioning. I'd imagine we could show which XSF people were where in FOSDEM.
  319. Florian yup, 3G this year
  320. dwd Florian, Depends on whether we can get a room somewhere.
  321. Florian I think the Cisco venue was great
  322. MattJ Much Better Ashley, FWIW http://listeninghall.com/ is XMPP-based (kind of like Turntable but for YouTube)
  323. Florian any chance of getting that this year again? stpeter?
  324. MattJ and the client code is on github (not the server code, but I think that could be arranged)
  325. stpeter Florian: I assume we can do that again this year
  326. Florian http://listeninghall.com/#/flosoft
  327. Florian cooooool
  328. MattJ http://listeninghall.com/#/prosody :)
  329. dwd MattJ, Do you know these guys?
  330. MattJ Keeping tabs on XSF people around Brussels would be a useful app in its own right (based on the past couple of years)
  331. dwd MattJ, Yes, helps us keep an eye on them.
  332. MattJ dwd, guy, and yes
  333. Florian anyway ... getting back to the conversation :)
  334. stpeter right
  335. dwd MattJ, That's a demo candidate, right there.
  336. MattJ +1
  337. Florian yes, some mobile app that does location
  338. Florian on a map
  339. dwd gets back to the conversation.
  340. Florian and maybe even webbrowser capable
  341. stpeter do we need two days for hacking/summiteering, or just one?
  342. dwd Florian, Possibly, but note that Buddycloud does it in text and having "Near Room H.264" might actualyl be better.
  343. Florian true
  344. dwd Florian, It should get that precise with WiFi beacons, too, I think.
  345. ralphm stpeter: I prefer two days outside of FOSDEM
  346. stpeter ralphm: yeah but do we have anything to talk about / work on?
  347. ralphm stpeter: do you have the feeling we ran out of topics last year?
  348. stpeter ralphm: well, last year we had the internationalization madness to discuss
  349. dwd ralphm, The usual problem isn't not talking enough, it's having anything come of it.
  350. Florian my head still hurts from taht
  351. Florian my head still hurts from that
  352. stpeter dwd: this is true
  353. dwd Florian, You are already internationalized, too.
  354. ralphm dwd: indeed. I'd like smaller, more organized sessions
  355. Florian 's head goes boom
  356. stpeter ralphm: with action items and follow-through
  357. ralphm stpeter: ye
  358. ralphm s
  359. Florian yes, I think the S2S testing was good
  360. stpeter I'm sick of talking about specs :)
  361. dwd ralphm, I'm not sure that has histroically worked either. Perhaps if we concentrated on specs that are nearing Last Call, say, that might work.
  362. Florian maybe we should actually "book" the room this year, so that we don't get kicked out again :)
  363. stpeter Florian: noted!
  364. ralphm I've been trying to recall stuff from the little circle dissussion on pubsub+muc
  365. dwd doesn't remember being kicked out.
  366. stpeter dwd: of the side room
  367. Florian right :)
  368. stpeter Florian: next time I'll book more of those side rooms
  369. dwd stpeter, Oh, right. That'll be why.
  370. stpeter I know for the BOSH testing, those guys were really just getting started
  371. stpeter but that's always true of testing -- set up takes a lot of time
  372. ralphm I think to do that properly, some of those session might need to be planned ahead of the event
  373. stpeter I don't particularly want to book two days of non-FOSDEM meetings if we're not going to make productive use of the time
  374. ralphm so people can pick what they'd like to participate in
  375. stpeter +1
  376. Florian +1
  377. ralphm This could also include: hack something to be shown in the lounge
  378. stpeter hmm, just re-reading the federated social web thread, those guys are talking about holding a one-day meeting before or after FOSDEM -- it might make sense to have that be a focus for one of the summit days (although that's not a purely xmpp topic)
  379. ralphm (provided we get one)
  380. dwd I'd be happier doing interop/hackery one day and discussion the other.
  381. dwd And interop - yeah, I think we'd like to do BOSH stuff.
  382. stpeter dwd: yeah
  383. Florian I agree, interop would be great
  384. Florian but we should get the environments set up beforehand
  385. stpeter BOSH is so tired, it's all about websockets these days :P
  386. dwd stpeter, Oh, I'd like to get the XMPP crowd together with the Federated SOcial Biscuit crowd.
  387. dwd stpeter, Yes, but don't count your eggs before your chickens, or possibly the other way around, as the saying might go.
  388. Florian so why not make the Friday: Interop / Hack only
  389. Florian i.e. no discussions, just small focus groups
  390. Florian on specific topics
  391. Florian tbd before the event
  392. ralphm nod
  393. stpeter Florian: that's what we've proposed in the past, but it never worked out all that well because we didn't prepare ahead of time for real interop testing or hacking
  394. Florian right, it would work however, if we do Interop Week the whole week
  395. Florian and basically end it with IRL Interop on the Friday
  396. dwd stpeter, We have had some experience in defining interop environments, now - we ought to be able to get our shit together (as the kids say) ahead of time.
  397. stpeter ok, we've been chatting here for an hour -- it sounds like we need to establish some action items and meet again in a week or two?
  398. ralphm yes
  399. stpeter I can follow up on the Cisco space
  400. ralphm I'd like to receive suggestions for topics to put in the call
  401. dwd stpeter, Well, we need to coordinate "demo" things. That's an action item - maybe we setup a Wiki page and announce it via blog and mailing lists?
  402. stpeter dwd: sure
  403. bear frees from work and peeks in
  404. stpeter and also a list of hacking / interop items?
  405. dwd stpeter, Yes, that too. We'll need to arrange for a test network at The Venue, I imagine, if there is interest in interop.
  406. stpeter dwd: what would the test network entail?
  407. ralphm Yes, it is a bring-your-own-gear-but-not-wireless kinda event
  408. stpeter there is always a guest network at Cisco locations -- would we need something more robust?
  409. bear do we need a wiki page for dev room speakers and demos again?
  410. ralphm (FOSDEM, at least, if we want to have functioning demos, a local network would be useful)
  411. dwd stpeter, A switch and some network cable would do.
  412. bear for the last interop we needed a switch to isolate the dns and certificate servers
  413. dwd ralphm, Good point.
  414. ralphm bear: I think so, yes
  415. ralphm My plan was to have a list of possible topics, to be included in the Call for Participation in the Devroom.
  416. ralphm and then sent out that call later this week
  417. bear I don't mind wrangling the talk list again (the messy part of wiki updates and stuff)
  418. ralphm We can do something similar for our own Summit days
  419. ralphm bear: awesome
  420. stpeter http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012
  421. ralphm bear: we should be able to have quite some slots
  422. ralphm i.e. if would use the same slot size, we could have 16 slots
  423. bear k
  424. ralphm so if anyone have suggestions for topics, send me an IM
  425. ralphm I'll draft the Call
  426. bear will the interop be a different event? (or has interop even been thought of yet as an event)
  427. ralphm I'm not sure if we are have a definite plan on that yet
  428. bear k
  429. bear i'm loving the xmpp realtime room idea - I know the &yet dev team will be at fosdem, we should contact them for coding some sort of demo
  430. ralphm nice
  431. Florian bear: awesome idea!
  432. dwd bear, Could do, yes.
  433. ralphm I hope I can bring in my real-time backchannel stuff
  434. ralphm to aggregate stuff into
  435. dwd Florian, Also, book that Chinese. Before the Debian guys do.
  436. bear I don't mind at all using my flosoft servers for any of this
  437. ralphm heh
  438. Florian hah!
  439. dwd That's *our* restaurant. They find their own.
  440. ralphm Who would like to summarize this meeting?
  441. Florian I'm sure we can ship a few servers for demos / interop :)
  442. bear :)
  443. MattJ I can summarize
  444. ralphm MattJ: Thanks!
  445. stpeter yes, thanks
  446. stpeter that reminds me, we need to get http://xmpp.org:5290/muc_log/muc.xmpp.org/xsf/ working again
  447. ralphm I'm going to contact Pascal about possibilities to do a lounge kinda thing
  448. stpeter ralphm: thanks
  449. MattJ stpeter, yep, on my todo (for this evening hopefully)
  450. dwd ralphm, I do think that slot where the beagle-board people were last year would be awesome.
  451. ralphm in any case we need to carefully plan logistics to pull that off
  452. ralphm you cannot send stuff to the ULB
  453. ralphm dwd: how much depth do you think we need?
  454. ralphm we don't want to block passages
  455. stpeter MattJ: I'm recovered from the IETF meeting so I'm going to start working on various iteam/bofh/etc. items
  456. stpeter MattJ: I have a zillion passwords to change at jabber.org for instance :)
  457. MattJ Heh, I believe it
  458. dwd ralphm, Well, we need a wider than normal area, I think - wider than the last couple of stands have been - but otherwise just removing the tables does most of the work.
  459. stpeter and it would be nice to get http://xmpp.org/resources/public-services/ functioning correctly again
  460. stpeter dwd: a standless stand? ;-)
  461. Florian stpeter: no, a Standing room only stand :D
  462. bear I want to help but also realize I should keep working on the testing code :/
  463. stpeter heh
  464. dwd stpeter, Yes, basically. Florian did suggest beanbags. I have a mad idea of a hammock, but I don't actually have any idea how that would work.
  465. stpeter bear: do we have any code? shall we start doing Agile development with scrums and such? ;-)
  466. Florian a hammock would be awesome ... but takes too much space for too fee people :/
  467. Florian but something like Bar stools
  468. bear poke mozilla for money hard - fosdem is big for us so we (xsf) should take advantage of them ;)
  469. dwd Florian, I did look at those bar-stool-height director chairs with quite some envy.
  470. bear I have been talking with sleekxmpp dev named lance about that - we have "plans" :)
  471. dwd bear, Lance is quite smart. And I would find it a giggle for the XMPP validator to be using my SASL stack. :-)
  472. dwd (Which, I should note, Lance made a heck of a lot prettier)
  473. bear i'm a firm believer in code reuse
  474. bear and I know i'm not smart enough to roll my own crypto stack
  475. dwd bear, Nor am I.
  476. bear doh!
  477. MattJ No-one is
  478. stpeter hey, plus the euro keeps falling, so this could be an inexpensive trip for those of us travelling from North America...
  479. bear \o/
  480. dwd We all stand in a circle and use the person on the left's crypto stack.
  481. bear i'm pushing hard for work and wife so I can attend
  482. dwd stpeter, Cheap to get here, impossible to return.
  483. dwd bear, Don't you have both already?
  484. dwd bear, Oh, I see.
  485. Florian lol
  486. MattJ stpeter, :D
  487. dwd Florian, You misspelt - http://thesaurus.com/browse/loll
  488. Tobias stpeter, yeah..really great for those having huge stacks of gsoc money laying around in europe ;)
  489. stpeter ok are we done?
  490. bear oops - that was an interesting english phrasing gaff
  491. stpeter is supposed to be on vacation this week :)
  492. ralphm bangs the gavel
  493. Tobias has left
  494. MattJ Thanks :)
  495. stpeter MattJ: thanks for writing up the minutes
  496. MattJ np
  497. ralphm dwd: in Dutch, 'lol' means fun
  498. dwd ralphm, Ah, op zohn fiets...
  499. dwd murders Dutch.
  500. ralphm dwd: wow, you're learning. Good. Quite an idiom, too.
  501. ralphm except for the 'h' needing to be an apostrophe
  502. dwd ralphm, It's about the only bit of Dutch that I know, mind. Still, not too bad from memory.
  503. Tobias has joined
  504. ralphm http://www.dwotd.nl/2006/09/dwotd_31_fiets.html
  505. bear peter, i'm going to email a mozilla person about fosdem and cc you
  506. stpeter bear: cool
  507. bear I would love for them to coordinate any part of this with us - so maybe they can help pay for some of it :)
  508. stpeter right :)
  509. bear what is your preferred email for htis stuff?
  510. ralphm bear: could you cc me on fosdem stuff?
  511. stpeter bear: I think last year we might have made money on FOSDEM :) meeting at the (free) Cisco building helped with that
  512. stpeter bear: stpeter -at- stpeter.im
  513. bear what email to use for you ralphm?
  514. ralphm my jid
  515. bear ik.nu?
  516. ralphm ralphm@ik.nu, yes
  517. MattJ ...and I think I may have an idea for an XMPP project + talk, I'll think a little before I submit it though :)
  518. ralphm good
  519. bear i'm sending the email to david ascher because he is part of the identity/realtime web project team
  520. bear and I also think he's known to xmpp folk already
  521. luca tagliaferri has joined
  522. ralphm bear: good text. Thanks!
  523. luca tagliaferri has left
  524. Kev returns.
  525. Kev Just in time to avoid any sort of actions, it seems.
  526. MattJ No you're not
  527. MattJ I was scrolled up re-reading the log, but I just scrolled down to ask...
  528. MattJ Who wants to be assigned the action to create a wiki page for the list of demo applications?
  529. MattJ If no-one, then I'll assign it to myself
  530. ralphm MattJ: deal
  531. MattJ :)
  532. MattJ Thanks!
  533. stpeter can't that go on the FOSDEM_2012 page on the wiki?
  534. MattJ I think
  535. MattJ Sure
  536. MattJ Then someone should send an announcement about it to the lists, to make sure we cast as wide a net as possible
  537. ralphm I have volunteered for that
  538. MattJ k
  539. stpeter all right, I'm going to disappear from IM for a few days, but I'll likely be on email while I catch up on the inbox backlog and such
  540. ralphm very good
  541. ralphm enjoy your time off
  542. stpeter thanks!
  543. stpeter has left
  544. bear enjoy!
  545. Ashley Roach has left
  546. Steffen Larsen has left
  547. simon has joined
  548. Florian has left
  549. simon Just saw Ralph's invitation. Anything I can help with?
  550. ralphm simon: heh, I invited you as somebody mentioned Buddycloud
  551. simon my ears are burning.
  552. ralphm there are plans to do a real-time demo thing at FOSDEM
  553. simon I'm all up for realtime demos. Dancing ponies and good wifi not withstanding.
  554. ralphm simon: there will be 3G sims again
  555. simon but by fosdem I'm hoping you will all have fired up your own v1.0 buddycloud server ;)
  556. Much Better Ashley has left
  557. bear seems that mozilla is planning for fosdem also - things more than just cool demos
  558. bear trying to dig out some details
  559. bear ponders how an open source company can be so opaque sometimes to members of it's own staff
  560. MattJ :)
  561. simon bear - I had a good chat with David from the messaging team about webFWD. It looks like we might "embed" with the Mozilla team for a bit.
  562. bear oh - did not know that (not that I should have or something)
  563. Florob has joined
  564. bear he seems worried that, if mozilla offers xmpp client support, that mozilla will also have to offer a server side to make the initial/new mozilla user experience not painful
  565. bear like what happens with sync
  566. ralphm except lots of people already have XMPP accounts
  567. simon you mean build their own server?
  568. bear yes
  569. bear so that a new install has someplace to go to by default
  570. simon does Mozilla produce a webserver?
  571. bear they learned that with thunderbird - sooo many folks expected to have an email address when they installed thunderbird
  572. bear yes for the start page
  573. bear every user when it starts goes to mozilla.org
  574. bear err .com
  575. simon presumably pushing registrations to a list of open servers that want to host users is an option. That's what we're trying to do with buddycloud. Browse content, register -> choose domain to register on. sign-in and start posting.
  576. ralphm bear: really?
  577. ralphm bear: I've never considered wanting a mozilla e-mail address
  578. bear it's what i'm talking to him about now - one of the big questions that came up
  579. bear when they surveyed folks who installed tbird but never used it - that was the biggest reason
  580. bear this was in the non-tech user space
  581. ralphm has left
  582. ralphm has joined
  583. Florob has left
  584. simon has left
  585. Tobias has left