XSF Discussion - 2011-11-23

  1. stpeter

    hi Ashley!

  2. Ashley Roach


  3. stpeter

    it seems that Florian won't be able to make it

  4. stpeter

    I don't have a JID for Chris Christou

  5. Ashley

    On the good news front, I've made some progress with the marketing folks at Cisco per my earlier email

  6. stpeter

    I admit to being out of the loop because of my trip to Taipei last week

  7. Ashley

    sure, of course :)

  8. stpeter

    aha, there's a JID for Chris at http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Chris_Christou_for_Board_2011

  9. Kev

    Ashley: I note that you're using a gmail.com JID, and that service has bugs that prevent proper working with MUC rooms.

  10. Kev

    Ashley: particularly, you're going to be changing nicks every five minutes until you log off, now.

  11. Ashley

    oh goodie

  12. Kev

    Or three minutes, or whatever their timer is set to.

  13. Kev

    I suggest you don't change nicknames in a MUC room while using a Google Talk account.

  14. Kev

    (Well, actually, I suggest not using Google Talk accounts with MUC at all, but the above is a more moderate suggestion)

  15. Much Better Ashley


  16. stpeter


  17. stpeter

    Ashley Roach: you might be happier with your @cisco.com JID :)

  18. Much Better Ashley

    yeah, i guess that'd work too

  19. Kev

    For the benefit of us plebs without such priviledged information, are we expecting a meeting today? (i.e. do we have apologies from anyone etc.)

  20. bear

    today was a "hi, i'm Foo" meeting with some minimal discussion if enough showed up

  21. bear

    I wasn't expecting anything formal except, maybe, a meeting time decision

  22. Kev

    I have an agenda request for the first formal meeting :)

  23. stpeter


  24. Kev

    I'd like to split the board list in two, so we have board@xmpp.org and board-incamera@xmpp.org or such.

  25. Kev

    And that while the second list (not open) is available when necessary, mundane things like meeting schedules and apologies and the like are all handled on the former, which would be open (for subscribing and reading).

  26. Kev

    (I'm not convinced that a great amount of the Board discussion needs to be in camera, but at least this provides a means to it where necessary)

  27. bear

    sounds like a great discussion for our first meeting :)

  28. stpeter

    ok, finished with my W3C conference call, now I have more attention

  29. Kev

    It also provides a means for interested parties to track discussions where (shock, horror, it could never happen) there's the possibility of Board maybe dropping the ball on something, such that they can effectively chase progress.

  30. Kev

    On top of the obvious openness.

  31. stpeter

    I'm all in favor of transparency

  32. Kev

    Well done Tobias, there's now as many Council members at the first Board meeting as there are Board members :D

  33. stpeter

    another option is to have most of the discussion on the members@ list

  34. Tobias

    Kev, yay

  35. stpeter

    and use board@ for truly private matters

  36. Kev

    stpeter: I have no problem with board having a non-noisey list to which us plebs can't post, if that's what they'd like.

  37. bear

    +1 to that option

  38. Kev

    bear: Which option

  39. Kev


  40. bear

    very little the board discusses is private, no reason to not use members@ for most things and use board@ for the other

  41. stpeter


  42. Kev

    That works for me, naturally :)

  43. bear

    it's kinda how we were leaning towards the end of last term

  44. Much Better Ashley

    i like the idea of using the members list, would we add [board] to the subject?

  45. bear

    so we should just start that way with this board

  46. bear

    ashley - that would work

  47. Kev

    Much Better Ashley: That seems a sensible suggestion. Or just obvious subject lines like "Board agenda" :)

  48. Much Better Ashley

    the other possibility, but adds work, is to post board minutes and the like to the members list

  49. Kev

    Much Better Ashley: I want realtime access, rather than belated :)

  50. Kev

    The minutes already get posted.

  51. Much Better Ashley

    seems like extra overhead that none of us would really want to do anyway

  52. Much Better Ashley

    Kev: k

  53. stpeter


  54. stpeter

    well, we even have former Board members here ;-)

  55. Much Better Ashley

    so, to summarize use members@ for majority of conversation; board@ is for private or coordination

  56. Kev

    Much Better Ashley: s/or coordination//

  57. Much Better Ashley


  58. stpeter

    Kev: we might want to talk about culling the number of @xmpp.org lists sometime, too -- do we really need ws-xmpp@xmpp.org for instance? ;-)

  59. Kev

    (If by coordination you mean things like arranging meetings, etc. I hadn't realised there was a board meeting now, for example, nor even after I'd noticed it in the calendar did I know which Board members were expecting to turn up :))

  60. stpeter

    Kev: right, exactly

  61. Kev

    stpeter: I'm all up for a cull.

  62. bear

    kev - the first meeting was tough because of travel, holidays, etc - and today was more of a "hey, peter is available, let's do it"

  63. Kev


  64. Kev

    But by discussing this in public, us mere Members would know this :)

  65. stpeter

    Kev: do we really need the council@ list? coordination items could be discussed on the standards@ list :)

  66. stpeter foresees the day when we have only two lists, standards@ and members@ :)

  67. MattJ

    I like jdev

  68. stpeter

    that's at jabber.org :P

  69. MattJ

    Good point :)

  70. Kev

    stpeter: If people want to do that, I'm not strictly opposed.

  71. MattJ

    Me neither, to be honest

  72. waqas

    By the way, can someone delete the board@muc.xmpp.org room, if board meetings are supposed to be here?

  73. Kev

    I have a slight concern with whether it'd get noisey.

  74. Kev

    (Which is also why I proposed opening the Board list, rather than having everything on members@)

  75. stpeter

    I'll take a look at http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo sometime soon

  76. Kev

    But as long as we keep the option to revert to council@ if it gets silly I certainly don't have a problem with a trial on standards@

  77. stpeter

    Kev: I realize that people can subscribe to council@ but somehow I doubt they do :)

  78. Kev

    Maybe that's ok, though, if they don't care.

  79. stpeter

    waqas: MattJ can do that, I think

  80. stpeter checks to see if he has perms

  81. MattJ nods, I'll do it now

  82. stpeter

    thanks, MattJ!

  83. stpeter

    Kev: but I suppose I can bring up Council communication policies in the Council meeting :)

  84. Kev

    You can, as long as you don't take it over 30 minutes.

  85. stpeter


  86. stpeter needs to install a jabber client on his shiny new iphone

  87. bear gavels the unstarted board meeting closed

  88. stpeter laughs

  89. Kev

    bear: Thanks :D

  90. stpeter

    this was just a sound check, it seems

  91. bear

    I know how much the Council loves punctuality and short meetings :)

  92. Much Better Ashley

    is the xsf meeting in Feb 2012 happening?

  93. Kev

    I believe so.

  94. Kev

    Or, at least, there's a discussion about it later today :)

  95. stpeter

    anyway there will be various FOSDEM activities

  96. Much Better Ashley

    k, i don't see it yet on the world wide webs, and i'm seeing if i can get cisco to sponsor something

  97. Kev

    I don't suppose Cisco have London offices instead? :D

  98. stpeter

    whether there will be more than that (e.g., Friday and Monday meetings), remains to be seen

  99. Much Better Ashley

    i have no idea

  100. Much Better Ashley

    but i have to imagine they do

  101. stpeter

    Cisco has offices everywhere

  102. Kev

    (I have a long standing grumble about Brussels not being my favourite place, but truth be told I'm lazy and don't like travelling to foreign climes)

  103. stpeter

    there's a fairly big office north of London, IIRC

  104. Much Better Ashley

    i was thinking along the lines of schwag and/or something related to hackathon/dev challenge

  105. stpeter

    we almost held an IESG retreat there, but the office was closed for the Royal Wedding™

  106. Tobias


  107. Much Better Ashley

    maybe a t-shirt like — i participated in this hackathon, and all i got was a lousy t-shirt

  108. Much Better Ashley


  109. Much Better Ashley

    but hopefully something a little more enticing

  110. stpeter

    Much Better Ashley: we can always give a Cius ;-)

  111. Much Better Ashley

    anyway, sounds like i can press ahead, and we'll see what i can get

  112. Much Better Ashley

    stpeter: you joke, but that's one of my options :)

  113. Much Better Ashley

    it has xmpp on board i hear

  114. Much Better Ashley

    are we done?

  115. stpeter


  116. stpeter

    we've all moved to the council@ chatroom :)

  117. Much Better Ashley

    ADD board

  118. bear


  119. bear

    if this time works for the US side of the house, then we need to confirm that it's ok for the EU side

  120. Much Better Ashley


  121. Much Better Ashley

    works great for me

  122. bear

    me also, and I think sans holiday-travel-burnout, it works for peter

  123. stpeter


  124. Florian

    hi there

  125. MattJ


  126. MattJ

    Is the FOSDEM meeting in here?

  127. Florian

    there's a FOSDEM meeting?

  128. Steffen Larsen

    in 30 minutes

  129. Florian

    ah yes, it seems that's today

  130. MattJ

    I don't think a venue was mentioned, but I'm assuming it's here

  131. MattJ

    I wonder if stpeter remembers :)

  132. Steffen Larsen

    have to check my mail

  133. Steffen Larsen

    no.. there was no muc in the mail

  134. Steffen Larsen

    but i assume it is here

  135. stpeter

    yep, this is the place, sorry about not mentioning a venue

  136. stpeter


  137. stpeter invites ralphm

  138. ralphm


  139. Florian

    evening all

  140. MattJ


  141. stpeter

    hey Ralph

  142. stpeter

    now the party can begin :)

  143. ralphm

    I appear to be experiencing some lag

  144. ralphm


  145. ralphm

    FOSDEM 2012, the place to be

  146. stpeter


  147. ralphm

    We have secured a Devroom on Saturday.

  148. stpeter

    maybe this year we can send in our devroom schedule on time ;-)

  149. ralphm


  150. stpeter

    linuxwolf said he could give a talk about end-to-end encryption (everyone's favorite topic)

  151. ralphm

    The deadline for submission of our schedule to the FOSDEM crew is 21 January

  152. stpeter


  153. stpeter

    so we need to start recruiting early

  154. ralphm

    So I think we should close submissions around the 7th

  155. stpeter


  156. stpeter

    ralphm: how many talks to we need? I assume we have only the morning or only the afternoon

  157. stpeter


  158. ralphm

    Unlike other years, we should be able to use 8 hours in the room

  159. stpeter


  160. stpeter

    not sure we have that much to say ;-)

  161. MattJ

    Oh dear, does this mean I don't get away with not submitting a talk?

  162. stpeter

    MattJ: correct!

  163. stpeter

    I suppose that someone might be able to give the traditional "XMPP 101" talk :)

  164. stpeter

    I am not yet sure if I will travel to FOSDEM

  165. Florian


  166. Florian


  167. stpeter

    but probably I'll end up being there

  168. ralphm

    they aren't sure yet about the exact times, but they figure they should be able to open the rooms at 9:30 or 10:00, to ensure session can start at 10:30, and the rooms will be closed at 18:30

  169. stpeter


  170. Florian

    we have the whole day?

  171. stpeter

    Florian: so it seems

  172. ralphm

    https://lists.fosdem.org/pipermail/devroom-managers/2011-November/000000.html gives some background information

  173. ralphm

    So this is really cool

  174. ralphm

    As for the room itself, this year it will be H.2213, which is in the H building, the same building that the registration desk is at.

  175. MattJ


  176. Steffen Larsen

    why not H.264? ;-)

  177. ralphm


  178. stpeter


  179. ralphm

    I believe this room is one level above the hallways

  180. ralphm

    it has 100 seats

  181. stpeter

    it would be nice to have something related to xmpp and the web -- how to use some of the javascript libraries to do simple things like embed presence or basic chat in a web page

  182. ralphm

    If anyone has been to the MySQL devroom last year, it is that room.

  183. stpeter

    maybe I'll play around with some of the bot frameworks (I've been meaning to anyway) and give a talk about fun things you can do with bots in chatrooms (although other people are more qualified to talk about such things than I am :)

  184. ralphm


  185. Steffen Larsen

    or components maybe

  186. stpeter

    Steffen Larsen: are you volunteering? ;-)

  187. stpeter


  188. Steffen Larsen

    stpeter: heh.. my GF will kill me if I go.. we just bought a house, and we are getting the keys at 1.feb. :-)

  189. MattJ

    brb, I have a pesky cat that wants feeding

  190. stpeter

    ralphm: is there anything else we need to plan? e.g., the stand?

  191. ralphm

    I think it might be fruitful to give a list of suggestions of topics that people might want to submit a talk for

  192. Steffen Larsen

    but i really wanted to do a presentation.. let me see if i can do something about it

  193. stpeter

    Steffen Larsen: whatever works for you

  194. ralphm

    I've seen that done in other devrooms' call for participation

  195. stpeter

    ralphm: yes

  196. ralphm

    and then that call should be sent out

  197. stpeter

    how about a talk about the billion laughs attack?

  198. Florian

    how about the stands?

  199. Florian

    did we apply?

  200. ralphm

    on the FOSDEM mailinglist, our own list(s) and on the site

  201. ralphm

    ok, stands

  202. ralphm

    we did *not* yet apply

  203. stpeter

    ralphm: agreed

  204. ralphm

    and this has to do with people with plans for doing stuff

  205. Florian

    are applications open?

  206. ralphm

    I'm looking at dwd and florian here

  207. ralphm

    Applications are open already, but I wanted to have a good story ready before the actual submission.

  208. Florian

    dwd and I talked about it a few weeks ago

  209. Florian

    to do something different ... i.e. get a sort of "lounge"y space

  210. Florian

    so no table, but nice chairs

  211. Florian

    and some projectors

  212. stpeter

    do such spaces exist?

  213. ralphm

    the submission deadline is Dec 13.

  214. Florian


  215. ralphm

    Usually, 'stands' are one table, but you can also request two

  216. Florian

    the space could be anywhere, we just remove the "table"

  217. stpeter


  218. ralphm

    depending how good of a plan we have, we might want to request two

  219. ralphm

    to have enough space to pull this off

  220. Florian


  221. ralphm

    stpeter: I'm not sure. Some things will be done differently this year.

  222. stpeter


  223. ralphm

    I don't think the normal hallways would be very suitable for this, though.

  224. stpeter

    it's not necessary to do everything the same way every year :)

  225. ralphm

    I like the lounge idea.

  226. Florian

    ralphm: could you find out if we'd be allowed to offer coffee?

  227. stpeter

    BTW, the federated social web folks did not get a room but might want to be active -- we could think about giving them some time on our 8-hour agenda

  228. Florian

    stpeter: sounds good

  229. ralphm

    stpeter: yes, indeed. Did someone contact you about this?

  230. stpeter

    ralphm: no, I just noticed a thread about it on their w3c.org list

  231. stpeter

    forwarding to members@xmpp.org

  232. ralphm

    hm, I'm not actually on that list

  233. stpeter


  234. stpeter

    there's a link on that page (it's a mailto: URL)

  235. Florian

    ok, so for the stands, does anyone else have some ideas?

  236. stpeter


  237. stpeter

    I too like the lounge idea

  238. Florian

    "The Real-time Lounge

  239. Florian


  240. stpeter


  241. Florian

    with some XMPP demos on projectors

  242. Florian

    something like jack's Wall of Porn

  243. Florian

    or anything else that's awesome and uses XMPP

  244. dwd

    Evening. Sorry I'm asoutndingly late. My meeting overan. By a few hours.

  245. Florian

    preferably with which the FOSDEM users can interact with

  246. stpeter

    I wish I could get someone from http://www.skyalert.org/ to give a talk :)

  247. stpeter

    so that's one action item: find cool things to demonstrate

  248. dwd

    Right. Cool things, which needn't be *technically* cool. Just cool to look at.

  249. stpeter

    right :)

  250. dwd

    Ralph mentioned he could spin up some realtime social network stream, which sounded like a crowd-pleaser.

  251. stpeter

    yeah, everyone is getting so social these days....

  252. ralphm

    Yes, I'll see if I can put that up, as I will be leaving Mediamatic Lab.

  253. stpeter

    http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/jabberpad/id372857200?mt=8 might be a fun thing to demo

  254. stpeter

    although I don't have an iPad (yet)

  255. Florian

    I have one

  256. dwd

    Bear in mind we need to at least pretend the stuff we're demoing is open source, or uses open source, or something.

  257. stpeter

    that app might be open source, I can't remember

  258. MattJ

    stpeter, the whole world was anti-social before Twitter

  259. MattJ

    Nobody ever spoke to anyone else

  260. ralphm

    dwd: indeed

  261. stpeter

    MattJ: so true, and I long for the good old days :P

  262. dwd

    MattJ, TO be fair, I still try not to.

  263. ralphm

    dwd: although in our case, open protocols is good, too

  264. stpeter

    do we want or need to hold a hackfest or summit before or after FOSDEM itself?

  265. Much Better Ashley

    alternatively, could we spin up a prototype/demo that could be the subject of a talk — maybe that's what dwd said though

  266. ralphm

    stpeter: I think so, yes

  267. Much Better Ashley

    i'd like to see an open version of turntable.fm using xmpp

  268. Florian

    that would be awesome

  269. Florian

    especially as turntable.fm is not available in the UK

  270. stpeter

    ralphm: I was hoping we'd have made some progress on the XMPP validator before then so that we could make it the focus of hacking, but alas that might not be possible at this point

  271. Florian

    ah ... speaking of XMPP Validator

  272. Florian

    should we do the Summit on Friday / Monday?

  273. dwd

    Given we have free 3G in Brussels (I assume, Florian?), we might be able to knock up a demo involving Buddycloud and positioning. I'd imagine we could show which XSF people were where in FOSDEM.

  274. Florian

    yup, 3G this year

  275. dwd

    Florian, Depends on whether we can get a room somewhere.

  276. Florian

    I think the Cisco venue was great

  277. MattJ

    Much Better Ashley, FWIW http://listeninghall.com/ is XMPP-based (kind of like Turntable but for YouTube)

  278. Florian

    any chance of getting that this year again? stpeter?

  279. MattJ

    and the client code is on github (not the server code, but I think that could be arranged)

  280. stpeter

    Florian: I assume we can do that again this year

  281. Florian


  282. Florian


  283. MattJ

    http://listeninghall.com/#/prosody :)

  284. dwd

    MattJ, Do you know these guys?

  285. MattJ

    Keeping tabs on XSF people around Brussels would be a useful app in its own right (based on the past couple of years)

  286. dwd

    MattJ, Yes, helps us keep an eye on them.

  287. MattJ

    dwd, guy, and yes

  288. Florian

    anyway ... getting back to the conversation :)

  289. stpeter


  290. dwd

    MattJ, That's a demo candidate, right there.

  291. MattJ


  292. Florian

    yes, some mobile app that does location

  293. Florian

    on a map

  294. dwd gets back to the conversation.

  295. Florian

    and maybe even webbrowser capable

  296. stpeter

    do we need two days for hacking/summiteering, or just one?

  297. dwd

    Florian, Possibly, but note that Buddycloud does it in text and having "Near Room H.264" might actualyl be better.

  298. Florian


  299. dwd

    Florian, It should get that precise with WiFi beacons, too, I think.

  300. ralphm

    stpeter: I prefer two days outside of FOSDEM

  301. stpeter

    ralphm: yeah but do we have anything to talk about / work on?

  302. ralphm

    stpeter: do you have the feeling we ran out of topics last year?

  303. stpeter

    ralphm: well, last year we had the internationalization madness to discuss

  304. dwd

    ralphm, The usual problem isn't not talking enough, it's having anything come of it.

  305. Florian

    my head still hurts from taht

  306. Florian

    my head still hurts from that

  307. stpeter

    dwd: this is true

  308. dwd

    Florian, You are already internationalized, too.

  309. ralphm

    dwd: indeed. I'd like smaller, more organized sessions

  310. Florian 's head goes boom

  311. stpeter

    ralphm: with action items and follow-through

  312. ralphm

    stpeter: ye

  313. ralphm


  314. Florian

    yes, I think the S2S testing was good

  315. stpeter

    I'm sick of talking about specs :)

  316. dwd

    ralphm, I'm not sure that has histroically worked either. Perhaps if we concentrated on specs that are nearing Last Call, say, that might work.

  317. Florian

    maybe we should actually "book" the room this year, so that we don't get kicked out again :)

  318. stpeter

    Florian: noted!

  319. ralphm

    I've been trying to recall stuff from the little circle dissussion on pubsub+muc

  320. dwd doesn't remember being kicked out.

  321. stpeter

    dwd: of the side room

  322. Florian

    right :)

  323. stpeter

    Florian: next time I'll book more of those side rooms

  324. dwd

    stpeter, Oh, right. That'll be why.

  325. stpeter

    I know for the BOSH testing, those guys were really just getting started

  326. stpeter

    but that's always true of testing -- set up takes a lot of time

  327. ralphm

    I think to do that properly, some of those session might need to be planned ahead of the event

  328. stpeter

    I don't particularly want to book two days of non-FOSDEM meetings if we're not going to make productive use of the time

  329. ralphm

    so people can pick what they'd like to participate in

  330. stpeter


  331. Florian


  332. ralphm

    This could also include: hack something to be shown in the lounge

  333. stpeter

    hmm, just re-reading the federated social web thread, those guys are talking about holding a one-day meeting before or after FOSDEM -- it might make sense to have that be a focus for one of the summit days (although that's not a purely xmpp topic)

  334. ralphm

    (provided we get one)

  335. dwd

    I'd be happier doing interop/hackery one day and discussion the other.

  336. dwd

    And interop - yeah, I think we'd like to do BOSH stuff.

  337. stpeter

    dwd: yeah

  338. Florian

    I agree, interop would be great

  339. Florian

    but we should get the environments set up beforehand

  340. stpeter

    BOSH is so tired, it's all about websockets these days :P

  341. dwd

    stpeter, Oh, I'd like to get the XMPP crowd together with the Federated SOcial Biscuit crowd.

  342. dwd

    stpeter, Yes, but don't count your eggs before your chickens, or possibly the other way around, as the saying might go.

  343. Florian

    so why not make the Friday: Interop / Hack only

  344. Florian

    i.e. no discussions, just small focus groups

  345. Florian

    on specific topics

  346. Florian

    tbd before the event

  347. ralphm


  348. stpeter

    Florian: that's what we've proposed in the past, but it never worked out all that well because we didn't prepare ahead of time for real interop testing or hacking

  349. Florian

    right, it would work however, if we do Interop Week the whole week

  350. Florian

    and basically end it with IRL Interop on the Friday

  351. dwd

    stpeter, We have had some experience in defining interop environments, now - we ought to be able to get our shit together (as the kids say) ahead of time.

  352. stpeter

    ok, we've been chatting here for an hour -- it sounds like we need to establish some action items and meet again in a week or two?

  353. ralphm


  354. stpeter

    I can follow up on the Cisco space

  355. ralphm

    I'd like to receive suggestions for topics to put in the call

  356. dwd

    stpeter, Well, we need to coordinate "demo" things. That's an action item - maybe we setup a Wiki page and announce it via blog and mailing lists?

  357. stpeter

    dwd: sure

  358. bear frees from work and peeks in

  359. stpeter

    and also a list of hacking / interop items?

  360. dwd

    stpeter, Yes, that too. We'll need to arrange for a test network at The Venue, I imagine, if there is interest in interop.

  361. stpeter

    dwd: what would the test network entail?

  362. ralphm

    Yes, it is a bring-your-own-gear-but-not-wireless kinda event

  363. stpeter

    there is always a guest network at Cisco locations -- would we need something more robust?

  364. bear

    do we need a wiki page for dev room speakers and demos again?

  365. ralphm

    (FOSDEM, at least, if we want to have functioning demos, a local network would be useful)

  366. dwd

    stpeter, A switch and some network cable would do.

  367. bear

    for the last interop we needed a switch to isolate the dns and certificate servers

  368. dwd

    ralphm, Good point.

  369. ralphm

    bear: I think so, yes

  370. ralphm

    My plan was to have a list of possible topics, to be included in the Call for Participation in the Devroom.

  371. ralphm

    and then sent out that call later this week

  372. bear

    I don't mind wrangling the talk list again (the messy part of wiki updates and stuff)

  373. ralphm

    We can do something similar for our own Summit days

  374. ralphm

    bear: awesome

  375. stpeter


  376. ralphm

    bear: we should be able to have quite some slots

  377. ralphm

    i.e. if would use the same slot size, we could have 16 slots

  378. bear


  379. ralphm

    so if anyone have suggestions for topics, send me an IM

  380. ralphm

    I'll draft the Call

  381. bear

    will the interop be a different event? (or has interop even been thought of yet as an event)

  382. ralphm

    I'm not sure if we are have a definite plan on that yet

  383. bear


  384. bear

    i'm loving the xmpp realtime room idea - I know the &yet dev team will be at fosdem, we should contact them for coding some sort of demo

  385. ralphm


  386. Florian

    bear: awesome idea!

  387. dwd

    bear, Could do, yes.

  388. ralphm

    I hope I can bring in my real-time backchannel stuff

  389. ralphm

    to aggregate stuff into

  390. dwd

    Florian, Also, book that Chinese. Before the Debian guys do.

  391. bear

    I don't mind at all using my flosoft servers for any of this

  392. ralphm


  393. Florian


  394. dwd

    That's *our* restaurant. They find their own.

  395. ralphm

    Who would like to summarize this meeting?

  396. Florian

    I'm sure we can ship a few servers for demos / interop :)

  397. bear


  398. MattJ

    I can summarize

  399. ralphm

    MattJ: Thanks!

  400. stpeter

    yes, thanks

  401. stpeter

    that reminds me, we need to get http://xmpp.org:5290/muc_log/muc.xmpp.org/xsf/ working again

  402. ralphm

    I'm going to contact Pascal about possibilities to do a lounge kinda thing

  403. stpeter

    ralphm: thanks

  404. MattJ

    stpeter, yep, on my todo (for this evening hopefully)

  405. dwd

    ralphm, I do think that slot where the beagle-board people were last year would be awesome.

  406. ralphm

    in any case we need to carefully plan logistics to pull that off

  407. ralphm

    you cannot send stuff to the ULB

  408. ralphm

    dwd: how much depth do you think we need?

  409. ralphm

    we don't want to block passages

  410. stpeter

    MattJ: I'm recovered from the IETF meeting so I'm going to start working on various iteam/bofh/etc. items

  411. stpeter

    MattJ: I have a zillion passwords to change at jabber.org for instance :)

  412. MattJ

    Heh, I believe it

  413. dwd

    ralphm, Well, we need a wider than normal area, I think - wider than the last couple of stands have been - but otherwise just removing the tables does most of the work.

  414. stpeter

    and it would be nice to get http://xmpp.org/resources/public-services/ functioning correctly again

  415. stpeter

    dwd: a standless stand? ;-)

  416. Florian

    stpeter: no, a Standing room only stand :D

  417. bear

    I want to help but also realize I should keep working on the testing code :/

  418. stpeter


  419. dwd

    stpeter, Yes, basically. Florian did suggest beanbags. I have a mad idea of a hammock, but I don't actually have any idea how that would work.

  420. stpeter

    bear: do we have any code? shall we start doing Agile development with scrums and such? ;-)

  421. Florian

    a hammock would be awesome ... but takes too much space for too fee people :/

  422. Florian

    but something like Bar stools

  423. bear

    poke mozilla for money hard - fosdem is big for us so we (xsf) should take advantage of them ;)

  424. dwd

    Florian, I did look at those bar-stool-height director chairs with quite some envy.

  425. bear

    I have been talking with sleekxmpp dev named lance about that - we have "plans" :)

  426. dwd

    bear, Lance is quite smart. And I would find it a giggle for the XMPP validator to be using my SASL stack. :-)

  427. dwd

    (Which, I should note, Lance made a heck of a lot prettier)

  428. bear

    i'm a firm believer in code reuse

  429. bear

    and I know i'm not smart enough to roll my own crypto stack

  430. dwd

    bear, Nor am I.

  431. bear


  432. MattJ

    No-one is

  433. stpeter

    hey, plus the euro keeps falling, so this could be an inexpensive trip for those of us travelling from North America...

  434. bear


  435. dwd

    We all stand in a circle and use the person on the left's crypto stack.

  436. bear

    i'm pushing hard for work and wife so I can attend

  437. dwd

    stpeter, Cheap to get here, impossible to return.

  438. dwd

    bear, Don't you have both already?

  439. dwd

    bear, Oh, I see.

  440. Florian


  441. MattJ

    stpeter, :D

  442. dwd

    Florian, You misspelt - http://thesaurus.com/browse/loll

  443. Tobias

    stpeter, yeah..really great for those having huge stacks of gsoc money laying around in europe ;)

  444. stpeter

    ok are we done?

  445. bear

    oops - that was an interesting english phrasing gaff

  446. stpeter is supposed to be on vacation this week :)

  447. ralphm bangs the gavel

  448. MattJ

    Thanks :)

  449. stpeter

    MattJ: thanks for writing up the minutes

  450. MattJ


  451. ralphm

    dwd: in Dutch, 'lol' means fun

  452. dwd

    ralphm, Ah, op zohn fiets...

  453. dwd murders Dutch.

  454. ralphm

    dwd: wow, you're learning. Good. Quite an idiom, too.

  455. ralphm

    except for the 'h' needing to be an apostrophe

  456. dwd

    ralphm, It's about the only bit of Dutch that I know, mind. Still, not too bad from memory.

  457. ralphm


  458. bear

    peter, i'm going to email a mozilla person about fosdem and cc you

  459. stpeter

    bear: cool

  460. bear

    I would love for them to coordinate any part of this with us - so maybe they can help pay for some of it :)

  461. stpeter

    right :)

  462. bear

    what is your preferred email for htis stuff?

  463. ralphm

    bear: could you cc me on fosdem stuff?

  464. stpeter

    bear: I think last year we might have made money on FOSDEM :) meeting at the (free) Cisco building helped with that

  465. stpeter

    bear: stpeter -at- stpeter.im

  466. bear

    what email to use for you ralphm?

  467. ralphm

    my jid

  468. bear


  469. ralphm

    ralphm@ik.nu, yes

  470. MattJ

    ...and I think I may have an idea for an XMPP project + talk, I'll think a little before I submit it though :)

  471. ralphm


  472. bear

    i'm sending the email to david ascher because he is part of the identity/realtime web project team

  473. bear

    and I also think he's known to xmpp folk already

  474. ralphm

    bear: good text. Thanks!

  475. Kev returns.

  476. Kev

    Just in time to avoid any sort of actions, it seems.

  477. MattJ

    No you're not

  478. MattJ

    I was scrolled up re-reading the log, but I just scrolled down to ask...

  479. MattJ

    Who wants to be assigned the action to create a wiki page for the list of demo applications?

  480. MattJ

    If no-one, then I'll assign it to myself

  481. ralphm

    MattJ: deal

  482. MattJ


  483. MattJ


  484. stpeter

    can't that go on the FOSDEM_2012 page on the wiki?

  485. MattJ

    I think

  486. MattJ


  487. MattJ

    Then someone should send an announcement about it to the lists, to make sure we cast as wide a net as possible

  488. ralphm

    I have volunteered for that

  489. MattJ


  490. stpeter

    all right, I'm going to disappear from IM for a few days, but I'll likely be on email while I catch up on the inbox backlog and such

  491. ralphm

    very good

  492. ralphm

    enjoy your time off

  493. stpeter


  494. bear


  495. simon

    Just saw Ralph's invitation. Anything I can help with?

  496. ralphm

    simon: heh, I invited you as somebody mentioned Buddycloud

  497. simon

    my ears are burning.

  498. ralphm

    there are plans to do a real-time demo thing at FOSDEM

  499. simon

    I'm all up for realtime demos. Dancing ponies and good wifi not withstanding.

  500. ralphm

    simon: there will be 3G sims again

  501. simon

    but by fosdem I'm hoping you will all have fired up your own v1.0 buddycloud server ;)

  502. bear

    seems that mozilla is planning for fosdem also - things more than just cool demos

  503. bear

    trying to dig out some details

  504. bear ponders how an open source company can be so opaque sometimes to members of it's own staff

  505. MattJ


  506. simon

    bear - I had a good chat with David from the messaging team about webFWD. It looks like we might "embed" with the Mozilla team for a bit.

  507. bear

    oh - did not know that (not that I should have or something)

  508. bear

    he seems worried that, if mozilla offers xmpp client support, that mozilla will also have to offer a server side to make the initial/new mozilla user experience not painful

  509. bear

    like what happens with sync

  510. ralphm

    except lots of people already have XMPP accounts

  511. simon

    you mean build their own server?

  512. bear


  513. bear

    so that a new install has someplace to go to by default

  514. simon

    does Mozilla produce a webserver?

  515. bear

    they learned that with thunderbird - sooo many folks expected to have an email address when they installed thunderbird

  516. bear

    yes for the start page

  517. bear

    every user when it starts goes to mozilla.org

  518. bear

    err .com

  519. simon

    presumably pushing registrations to a list of open servers that want to host users is an option. That's what we're trying to do with buddycloud. Browse content, register -> choose domain to register on. sign-in and start posting.

  520. ralphm

    bear: really?

  521. ralphm

    bear: I've never considered wanting a mozilla e-mail address

  522. bear

    it's what i'm talking to him about now - one of the big questions that came up

  523. bear

    when they surveyed folks who installed tbird but never used it - that was the biggest reason

  524. bear

    this was in the non-tech user space