XSF Discussion - 2011-12-07

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  13. Dave Cridland

    Hmmm, I just realised that I never sent out a link to the agenda to the members list.

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  22. stpeter

    Dave Cridland: thanks for sending the agenda link

  23. Dave Cridland

    Horribly late.

  24. Dave Cridland

    Had that ready to send for ages and finally dug down to it.

  25. stpeter

    I think the Board members who are not XSF members are not on the members@xmpp.org list

  26. stpeter

    or might not be

  27. stpeter

    that seems advisable

  28. Dave Cridland

    stpeter, I did send the contents to board@ on Monday.

  29. ralphm

    Good start :-D

  30. stpeter

    hi ralphm!

  31. ralphm

    Hello from SF, by the way.

  32. stpeter

    ralphm: how is your trip so far?

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  35. Dave Cridland

    We seems to be lacking in board members.

  36. ralphm

    stpeter: Apart from filled sinuses and a bit of a jet lag, pretty good.

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  38. stpeter

    Dave: I don't see Florian or Ashley online

  39. Dave Cridland

    stpeter, Florian sent apologies last week.

  40. stpeter


  41. stpeter

    that's right

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  43. stpeter

    he's at Le Web

  44. Dave Cridland

    stpeter, You may recall he pleaded the novel excuse of being invited to dinner by the French President.

  45. stpeter

    Dave Cridland: yeah, some excuse

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  47. MattJ

    Dave Cridland, I thought you were joking about that :)

  48. ralphm_

    You'd think he has better things to do

  49. MattJ

    For the fact it sounded entirely too plausible to be true

  50. Dave Cridland

    MattJ, Well, it sounds more likely if you consider that Sarkozy doesn't actually know Florian.

  51. MattJ


  52. MattJ

    Thanks for the emails about board meetings though, the main reason I rarely attended them in the past is forgetfulness

  53. stpeter

    I've pinged and invited bear

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  56. stpeter

    MattJ: you *can* subscribe to the calendar at http://xmpp.org/calendar/

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  58. Dave Cridland

    OK, so I suspect we can't have a formal board meeting, but I'd like to still discuss at least the FOSDEM stuff, so we can try to help people nail down travel plans.

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  61. Dave Cridland

    Also, we're running close to the deadline for a stand - that's the 9th, isn't it?

  62. ralphm

    Ugh, connections being dropped here. Switching to a screen(1) session.

  63. stpeter

    Dave Cridland: agreed on nailing things down, I continue to ping Board members in the background :)

  64. ralphm

    deadline is 14th

  65. Dave Cridland

    stpeter, Nailing things down is not only fun, but satisfying.

  66. ralphm

    eh 13th

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  68. Dave Cridland

    ralphm, OK, so before the next Board meeting anyway.

  69. Dave Cridland

    So - do we want to try for this "Real Time Lounge" idea?

  70. ralphm


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  73. Dave Cridland

    I'm trying to get some military demos going, perhaps some low-bandwidth stuff.

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  75. cchris434

    Hi Dave, I still owe you an answer on the demos...will let you know

  76. Dave Cridland

    I've also tapped Echobit (evolvehq.com) to see if they can show. GIves us an excuse to play games.

  77. ralphm

    It'd be a nice if someone would make a nice summary for the idea.

  78. Dave Cridland

    cchris434, That'd be great.

  79. cchris434

    yep, I will see, although no promises

  80. ralphm

    Do those demos involve FOSS?

  81. Dave Cridland

    ralphm, Yes, I should think so, for the client at the very least.

  82. Dave Cridland

    ralphm, Harder to arrange with Echobit, although they use an open-source server, and the XMPP library is also open-source.

  83. ralphm

    While not critical, as we are more about open standards, it is a big plus at this event.

  84. Dave Cridland

    ralphm, Yes, I agree. FOSDEM is FOSS, first and foremost, and we should ensure we're never too far from that.

  85. ralphm

    my point

  86. ralphm

    I'm sure that when we send out a CFP, we have more of these

  87. stpeter

    BTW Ashley is on the way

  88. ralphm

    we just need to be sure we have something already

  89. ralphm

    so we can put in the request

  90. Dave Cridland

    Right. So we can hammer out a draft proposal on the Wiki, I suppose?

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  92. Dave Cridland

    bear, You about?

  93. bear

    odd - my client sure looked liked I was already attached

  94. stpeter


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  96. Dave Cridland

    Gosh. We're quorate!

  97. bear

    we need to talk to the buddycloud folks for the lounge demo

  98. Dave Cridland

    bear, Yes, good point too.

  99. Ashley

    apologies for being late

  100. Dave Cridland

    Ashley, Did we mention the public whippings for latecomers?

  101. Ashley

    i have callouses, so go ahead… :D

  102. bear

    mozilla's email has been down for 3 days, so I haven't been able to even poke them about sharing the space - still working on it

  103. Dave Cridland

    bear, By "sharing the space", you mean what, exactly?

  104. stpeter

    bear: ouch

  105. bear

    well, I was hoping that mozilla would help either with demos or with money (both actually)

  106. stpeter

    we need demos more than we need money

  107. ralphm


  108. Dave Cridland

    stpeter, Yes, I tend to agree. We can unleash Florian to find money.

  109. stpeter

    I think last year we might have made money on the Summit/FOSDEM :)

  110. bear


  111. Dave Cridland

    stpeter, Reminds me - who is our tresurer at the moment? One of your many hats?

  112. stpeter

    I think we can put out a call for demos and scare up some interesting stuff

  113. stpeter

    Dave Cridland: yes, one of my many hats -- we might want to find someone (officially it was Jack but he never got involved)

  114. bear

    personally I would love to see a cross-client jingle demo

  115. stpeter

    the Jitsi folks will be there, no doubt

  116. stpeter

    anyway we can brainstorm about demos

  117. ralphm

    even if we can't actually do the lounge bit, we should still be able to get a regular stand

  118. stpeter

    (another one is that music player that someone poasted last week)

  119. stpeter

    ralphm: right

  120. stpeter


  121. ralphm

    that said, we might not. I'm not sure if we should wait with a call for demos until confirmed

  122. Dave Cridland

    Right. But basically all our "real time longue" is is a stand in a conventiant place without a table.

  123. ralphm


  124. Dave Cridland

    ralphm, When do we know about stands, typically?

  125. stpeter

    we can make it standing room only ;-)

  126. ralphm

    the 22th

  127. ralphm

    See http://fosdem.org/2012/call-for-stands

  128. Dave Cridland


  129. Dave Cridland

    There's at least a start.

  130. Ashley

    actually looks like 13th is deadline for requests

  131. Dave Cridland

    Ashley, Yeah, we got there in the end. :-)

  132. Ashley


  133. Dave Cridland

    So, shall we go for this stand thing?

  134. stpeter

    I think so, yes

  135. bear


  136. Ashley


  137. ralphm

    So, who can make a compelling summary for the application. I'd then be more than happy to put it in

  138. cchris434


  139. Dave Cridland

    Right, so I've slung together a Wiki page we can work on the summary for. How big does it need to be?

  140. ralphm


  141. Ashley

    sounds like it can be informationally focused, so we could just use it as a "promote xmpp"

  142. ralphm

    I'll probably put our motivation in the 'comments' bot

  143. stpeter

    ralphm: do we need to include the lounge idea, or shall we just mention the demonstrations?

  144. ralphm

    Ashley: well, that's a bit vague

  145. Dave Cridland

    Also, I think it's worth making a call for demos so we have at least a couple of example demos we can include, but we'll do the call just to the members list for now.

  146. ralphm

    Ashley: I don't suppose there will be requests that don't promote their project.

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  148. Ashley

    well, it doesn't say you have to promote a project

  149. Ashley

    though it *does* use that project word a lot :)

  150. ralphm

    I think a few sentences should be enough.

  151. Ashley

    seems like xmpp awareness could fit in this requirement… be a Free Software or Open Source project (your project produces and releases software under an open source license or otherwise contributes to open source activities and communities),

  152. ralphm

    Ashley: we've manned stands since 2001, I think we are fine on that part

  153. ralphm

    (at FOSDEM)

  154. Ashley

    sure, makes sense

  155. Dave Cridland


  156. Dave Cridland

    How does that look?

  157. Dave Cridland

    (Not that Buddycloud have said anythign about a demo yet)

  158. bear

    i'm chatting with simon now - he is interested

  159. ralphm

    Pretty good. I suppose I should highlight the lounge part of it a bit.

  160. stpeter

    Dave Cridland: WFM (but we might want to include the dreaded "J-word" for context)

  161. Dave Cridland

    I'll massage it a bit.

  162. ralphm

    Do we intend to arrange for bean bags?

  163. bear

    are fosdem folks open to using military examples?

  164. Ashley

    agree this looks good

  165. Dave Cridland

    bear, I don't see why not, as long as it involves open-source.

  166. ralphm

    bear: surely there'll be some people against it

  167. bear

    just asking - never know what those silly EU types are all about

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  169. ralphm

    I don't think it is much of an issue

  170. cchris434

    perhaps to broaden the appeal by saying it is also for first responders, etc.

  171. bear


  172. imagi

    hi guys.

  173. Dave Cridland

    bear, Well, NATO is based just down the road, I'm sure it'll be fine.

  174. bear is looking forward to his first fosdem

  175. Ashley

    there's certainly plenty of OSS used in the military, so i wouldn't think this would be a surprise

  176. Dave Cridland

    imagi, You said you had backdrops and things?

  177. cchris434

    no, it shouldn't be that much of a surprise

  178. ralphm

    I don't think we should have to go into details

  179. imagi

    Can provide backdrops and 400 stickers.

  180. Ashley

    but i do like the addition of "first responders" etc

  181. ralphm


  182. imagi

    and some laptops and team to do demoing work.

  183. cchris434

    yeah, a lot of the deployed scenarios have similar challenges--miltary, first responders, emergency communications, etc.

  184. Ashley

    any "internet of things" demos that folks know about?

  185. Dave Cridland

    Ashley, Might be easier just to pick a different demo.

  186. Ashley

    a la http://www.ices.cmu.edu/censcir/sensor-andrew/

  187. ralphm

    So, I suppose this point is mostly done?

  188. stpeter

    Ashley: I know of some guys in Spain (I think) who had an XMPP-based internet of things application, will reach out

  189. ralphm

    I really need breakfast

  190. Ashley


  191. stpeter


  192. Dave Cridland

    http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Stand#Real_Time_Lounge Updated.

  193. Dave Cridland

    So, the only other question is whether we're aiming to do Friday, Monday, or both for the summit/interop?

  194. imagi

    buddycloud (lowercase b)

  195. imagi

    I like the "realtime lounge" idea. I'd really like us to de-focus on any chat demos.

  196. Dave Cridland

    I have the gut feel that doing interop on Friday and the Summit proper on Monday seems best. I'm pretty sure we can easy get enough momentum behind interop.

  197. Dave Cridland

    imagi, Right. Basic chat is hard to get a proper "Wow" over, which is what we're aiming for here.

  198. ralphm

    I like that last addition, the fosdem like projects that try to combine smaller projects

  199. cchris434

    so are we de-emphasizing the miltary/first responder aspect of it?

  200. stpeter

    I'd love to see some more interop testing -- e.g., the BOSH testing last year was productive but limited

  201. bear

    +1 to wording

  202. Dave Cridland

    Yes, this did occur to me. Nefarious, that's me.

  203. imagi

    There's a bunch of federated social web people that were thinking of piggybacking onto the XMPP side of things. I'll find out what's happening with that. I know this is an xmpp thing, but it certainly helps having them see XMPP and the light beyond non-federated-http-land.

  204. Dave Cridland

    cchris434, It's very hard to be breif without potentially rubbing people up the wrong way.

  205. Dave Cridland

    cchris434, Doesn't stop us from doing things on the day, of course.

  206. ralphm

    imagi: we are always open for that

  207. cchris434

    sure, that's fine

  208. ralphm

    imagi: like talks in our devroom

  209. imagi

    bc team has a triple play lined up - from me doing my standard rant-fest to some gritty implementation details from dodo.

  210. stpeter

    http://www.iab.org/wp-content/IAB-uploads/2011/03/Casado.pdf = XMPP IOT project

  211. imagi

    I think tuomas wants to talk about some XMPP domain blacklisting stuff too.

  212. stpeter

    imagi: sounds good

  213. ralphm

    cchris434: also, the description likely isn't going to be made public

  214. bear

    i'll reach out to the &yet folks - i'm sure fritzy will be there

  215. Dave Cridland

    So, pulling us back a bit - Friday Interop, Monday SUmmit (ie, technical talks) - yes or no?

  216. ralphm


  217. Ashley


  218. MattJ


  219. Dave Cridland

    The reason I want to nail this down is because the Americans need to book flights while they're still relatively cheap.

  220. cchris434


  221. bear

    +1 (and +1 for flight booking timing)

  222. imagi

    would it make sense to try and co-ordinate an XMPP and federated social web day on Friday too?

  223. stpeter

    I can book the Cisco rooms again

  224. Dave Cridland

    So I count "public support" and unanimous board support. Done with that one then.

  225. imagi

    I expect there will be no clash with the interop folks.

  226. Dave Cridland

    stpeter, That makes sense.

  227. stpeter

    (in fact more rooms so that we can do breakouts for testing)

  228. stpeter


  229. Dave Cridland

    So - do we have sufficient time, energy, and people present to discuss Athena now?

  230. bear

    we need to fix it - so yes

  231. Dave Cridland

    I'm actually going to take that as a no, and defer that one until next week.

  232. stpeter


  233. stpeter


  234. Dave Cridland

    I think we do need to get it sorted, but I think we can safely wait a week.

  235. stpeter

    so, meeting next week at the same time?

  236. cchris434


  237. Dave Cridland

    I think that works - note that I believe there's a Council meeting typically starting at 1700, so we'd normally have a tighter time constraint than today.

  238. stpeter


  239. stpeter

    that's not necessarily a bad thing :)

  240. stpeter

    time constraints focus the discusion

  241. stpeter


  242. bear looks in the mirror

  243. bear

    and less tardy members

  244. stpeter


  245. Dave Cridland

    Right. So I motion to adjourn.

  246. Ashley


  247. bear


  248. Dave Cridland

    And we're done.

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  250. stpeter adds next week's meeting to the calendar

  251. bear waves and goes to see our Moz's IT has done recovering mail and entire colo from downtime

  252. cchris434

    good bye

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  254. stpeter

    calendar updated at http://xmpp.org/calendar/

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  257. stpeter

    Dave Cridland: shall I point potential demo people to you or to Ralph or to both?

  258. Dave Cridland

    stpeter, I think we should probably do the traditional thing and setup a Wiki page.

  259. stpeter

    heh sure

  260. stpeter


  261. stpeter

    so http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Demos

  262. stpeter

    will create some content there

  263. Dave Cridland

    stpeter, Will's not a board member anymore, we can't get him to do it.

  264. stpeter

    http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Demos created

  265. stpeter

    I'm going to ping the internet of things people in Spain

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  268. stpeter

    MattJ: it seems that we never fixed the port 5290 problem on athena (to access the MUC logs)

  269. MattJ

    Indeed, it's on my list... main hold-up was that I changed SSH key and needed to upload my new ones to hermes and athena

  270. MattJ

    Did that, then the next day athena was down :)

  271. stpeter

    ah yeah

  272. stpeter


  273. stpeter


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  276. Kev

    "Couldn't send message: Message was rejected"

  277. Kev

    That'd be why I wasn't seeing any traffic, then.

  278. stpeter


  279. stpeter

    I must say that find it annoying when people send me email messages in French and Italian (etc.) and expect me to read them -- at least use Google Translate or somesuch!

  280. stpeter wanders off to kvetch in a different chatroom

  281. Kev

    Kvatch? That's a town in Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, isn't it? :)

  282. stpeter


  283. stpeter

    I grew up in the New York City area, so Yiddishims creep into my day-to-day language...

  284. stpeter

    Yiddishisms even :)

  285. stpeter

    looks like we need to fill out http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012 -- I'll make a start on that this evening along with other things I've been putting off

  286. stpeter

    it seems that the email flow has started to slow down already, perhaps this will give me a chance to catch up

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