XSF Discussion - 2011-12-07

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16:16:49 Dave Cridland Hmmm, I just realised that I never sent out a link to the agenda to the members list.
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16:27:37 stpeter Dave Cridland: thanks for sending the agenda link
16:27:52 Dave Cridland Horribly late.
16:28:03 Dave Cridland Had that ready to send for ages and finally dug down to it.
16:28:11 stpeter I think the Board members who are not XSF members are not on the members@xmpp.org list
16:28:21 stpeter or might not be
16:28:30 stpeter that seems advisable
16:28:34 Dave Cridland stpeter, I did send the contents to board@ on Monday.
16:29:07 ralphm Good start :-D
16:29:15 stpeter hi ralphm!
16:29:21 ralphm Hello from SF, by the way.
16:29:24 stpeter ralphm: how is your trip so far?
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16:30:08 Dave Cridland We seems to be lacking in board members.
16:30:19 ralphm stpeter: Apart from filled sinuses and a bit of a jet lag, pretty good.
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16:33:03 stpeter Dave: I don't see Florian or Ashley online
16:33:15 Dave Cridland stpeter, Florian sent apologies last week.
16:33:20 stpeter ah
16:33:22 stpeter that's right
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16:33:31 stpeter he's at Le Web
16:33:33 Dave Cridland stpeter, You may recall he pleaded the novel excuse of being invited to dinner by the French President.
16:33:45 stpeter Dave Cridland: yeah, some excuse
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16:33:50 MattJ Dave Cridland, I thought you were joking about that :)
16:34:12 ralphm_ You'd think he has better things to do
16:34:17 MattJ For the fact it sounded entirely too plausible to be true
16:34:44 Dave Cridland MattJ, Well, it sounds more likely if you consider that Sarkozy doesn't actually know Florian.
16:34:53 MattJ :)
16:35:26 MattJ Thanks for the emails about board meetings though, the main reason I rarely attended them in the past is forgetfulness
16:35:27 stpeter I've pinged and invited bear
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16:35:46 stpeter MattJ: you *can* subscribe to the calendar at http://xmpp.org/calendar/
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16:36:02 Dave Cridland OK, so I suspect we can't have a formal board meeting, but I'd like to still discuss at least the FOSDEM stuff, so we can try to help people nail down travel plans.
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16:36:50 Dave Cridland Also, we're running close to the deadline for a stand - that's the 9th, isn't it?
16:37:35 ralphm Ugh, connections being dropped here. Switching to a screen(1) session.
16:37:41 stpeter Dave Cridland: agreed on nailing things down, I continue to ping Board members in the background :)
16:38:02 ralphm deadline is 14th
16:38:04 Dave Cridland stpeter, Nailing things down is not only fun, but satisfying.
16:38:04 ralphm eh 13th
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16:38:22 Dave Cridland ralphm, OK, so before the next Board meeting anyway.
16:39:00 Dave Cridland So - do we want to try for this "Real Time Lounge" idea?
16:39:32 ralphm sure
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16:40:22 Dave Cridland I'm trying to get some military demos going, perhaps some low-bandwidth stuff.
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16:40:51 cchris434 Hi Dave, I still owe you an answer on the demos...will let you know
16:40:56 Dave Cridland I've also tapped Echobit (evolvehq.com) to see if they can show. GIves us an excuse to play games.
16:41:01 ralphm It'd be a nice if someone would make a nice summary for the idea.
16:41:11 Dave Cridland cchris434, That'd be great.
16:41:28 cchris434 yep, I will see, although no promises
16:41:43 ralphm Do those demos involve FOSS?
16:42:01 Dave Cridland ralphm, Yes, I should think so, for the client at the very least.
16:42:37 Dave Cridland ralphm, Harder to arrange with Echobit, although they use an open-source server, and the XMPP library is also open-source.
16:42:52 ralphm While not critical, as we are more about open standards, it is a big plus at this event.
16:43:26 Dave Cridland ralphm, Yes, I agree. FOSDEM is FOSS, first and foremost, and we should ensure we're never too far from that.
16:43:52 ralphm my point
16:44:15 ralphm I'm sure that when we send out a CFP, we have more of these
16:44:21 stpeter BTW Ashley is on the way
16:44:31 ralphm we just need to be sure we have something already
16:44:52 ralphm so we can put in the request
16:45:08 Dave Cridland Right. So we can hammer out a draft proposal on the Wiki, I suppose?
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16:45:27 Dave Cridland bear, You about?
16:45:28 bear odd - my client sure looked liked I was already attached
16:45:44 stpeter heh
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16:46:16 Dave Cridland Gosh. We're quorate!
16:46:18 bear we need to talk to the buddycloud folks for the lounge demo
16:46:29 Dave Cridland bear, Yes, good point too.
16:46:32 Ashley apologies for being late
16:46:52 Dave Cridland Ashley, Did we mention the public whippings for latecomers?
16:47:12 Ashley i have callouses, so go ahead… :D
16:47:15 bear mozilla's email has been down for 3 days, so I haven't been able to even poke them about sharing the space - still working on it
16:47:37 Dave Cridland bear, By "sharing the space", you mean what, exactly?
16:47:39 stpeter bear: ouch
16:48:01 bear well, I was hoping that mozilla would help either with demos or with money (both actually)
16:48:58 stpeter we need demos more than we need money
16:49:11 ralphm right
16:49:17 Dave Cridland stpeter, Yes, I tend to agree. We can unleash Florian to find money.
16:49:23 stpeter I think last year we might have made money on the Summit/FOSDEM :)
16:49:48 bear ok
16:49:51 Dave Cridland stpeter, Reminds me - who is our tresurer at the moment? One of your many hats?
16:49:57 stpeter I think we can put out a call for demos and scare up some interesting stuff
16:50:22 stpeter Dave Cridland: yes, one of my many hats -- we might want to find someone (officially it was Jack but he never got involved)
16:50:47 bear personally I would love to see a cross-client jingle demo
16:51:10 stpeter the Jitsi folks will be there, no doubt
16:51:42 stpeter anyway we can brainstorm about demos
16:51:47 ralphm even if we can't actually do the lounge bit, we should still be able to get a regular stand
16:51:53 stpeter (another one is that music player that someone poasted last week)
16:51:56 stpeter ralphm: right
16:52:10 stpeter s/poasted/posted/
16:52:12 ralphm that said, we might not. I'm not sure if we should wait with a call for demos until confirmed
16:52:23 Dave Cridland Right. But basically all our "real time longue" is is a stand in a conventiant place without a table.
16:52:36 ralphm sure
16:52:53 Dave Cridland ralphm, When do we know about stands, typically?
16:52:53 stpeter we can make it standing room only ;-)
16:53:09 ralphm the 22th
16:53:17 ralphm See http://fosdem.org/2012/call-for-stands
16:55:11 Dave Cridland http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Stand
16:55:16 Dave Cridland There's at least a start.
16:55:20 Ashley actually looks like 13th is deadline for requests
16:55:33 Dave Cridland Ashley, Yeah, we got there in the end. :-)
16:55:41 Ashley ok
16:55:56 Dave Cridland So, shall we go for this stand thing?
16:56:05 stpeter I think so, yes
16:56:06 bear +1
16:56:10 Ashley +1
16:56:10 ralphm So, who can make a compelling summary for the application. I'd then be more than happy to put it in
16:56:11 cchris434 sure
16:56:38 Dave Cridland Right, so I've slung together a Wiki page we can work on the summary for. How big does it need to be?
16:56:49 ralphm 'short'
16:56:57 Ashley sounds like it can be informationally focused, so we could just use it as a "promote xmpp"
16:57:00 ralphm I'll probably put our motivation in the 'comments' bot
16:57:18 stpeter ralphm: do we need to include the lounge idea, or shall we just mention the demonstrations?
16:57:18 ralphm Ashley: well, that's a bit vague
16:57:26 Dave Cridland Also, I think it's worth making a call for demos so we have at least a couple of example demos we can include, but we'll do the call just to the members list for now.
16:57:36 ralphm Ashley: I don't suppose there will be requests that don't promote their project.
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16:58:24 Ashley well, it doesn't say you have to promote a project
16:58:36 Ashley though it *does* use that project word a lot :)
16:59:03 ralphm I think a few sentences should be enough.
16:59:22 Ashley seems like xmpp awareness could fit in this requirement… be a Free Software or Open Source project (your project produces and releases software under an open source license or otherwise contributes to open source activities and communities),
16:59:48 ralphm Ashley: we've manned stands since 2001, I think we are fine on that part
17:00:01 ralphm (at FOSDEM)
17:00:06 Ashley sure, makes sense
17:00:28 Dave Cridland http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Stand
17:00:32 Dave Cridland How does that look?
17:00:45 Dave Cridland (Not that Buddycloud have said anythign about a demo yet)
17:01:01 bear i'm chatting with simon now - he is interested
17:01:15 ralphm Pretty good. I suppose I should highlight the lounge part of it a bit.
17:01:37 stpeter Dave Cridland: WFM (but we might want to include the dreaded "J-word" for context)
17:02:01 Dave Cridland I'll massage it a bit.
17:02:15 ralphm Do we intend to arrange for bean bags?
17:02:17 bear are fosdem folks open to using military examples?
17:02:30 Ashley agree this looks good
17:02:39 Dave Cridland bear, I don't see why not, as long as it involves open-source.
17:02:57 ralphm bear: surely there'll be some people against it
17:02:59 bear just asking - never know what those silly EU types are all about
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17:03:12 ralphm I don't think it is much of an issue
17:03:17 cchris434 perhaps to broaden the appeal by saying it is also for first responders, etc.
17:03:18 bear k
17:03:19 imagi hi guys.
17:03:22 Dave Cridland bear, Well, NATO is based just down the road, I'm sure it'll be fine.
17:03:56 bear is looking forward to his first fosdem
17:04:10 Ashley there's certainly plenty of OSS used in the military, so i wouldn't think this would be a surprise
17:04:15 Dave Cridland imagi, You said you had backdrops and things?
17:04:25 cchris434 no, it shouldn't be that much of a surprise
17:04:27 ralphm I don't think we should have to go into details
17:04:44 imagi Can provide backdrops and 400 stickers.
17:04:44 Ashley but i do like the addition of "first responders" etc
17:04:56 ralphm ok
17:04:58 imagi and some laptops and team to do demoing work.
17:05:22 cchris434 yeah, a lot of the deployed scenarios have similar challenges--miltary, first responders, emergency communications, etc.
17:05:26 Ashley any "internet of things" demos that folks know about?
17:05:27 Dave Cridland Ashley, Might be easier just to pick a different demo.
17:06:24 Ashley a la http://www.ices.cmu.edu/censcir/sensor-andrew/
17:07:52 ralphm So, I suppose this point is mostly done?
17:07:52 stpeter Ashley: I know of some guys in Spain (I think) who had an XMPP-based internet of things application, will reach out
17:08:20 ralphm I really need breakfast
17:08:27 Ashley cool
17:08:27 stpeter :)
17:08:36 Dave Cridland http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Stand#Real_Time_Lounge Updated.
17:08:58 Dave Cridland So, the only other question is whether we're aiming to do Friday, Monday, or both for the summit/interop?
17:09:12 imagi buddycloud (lowercase b)
17:09:51 imagi I like the "realtime lounge" idea. I'd really like us to de-focus on any chat demos.
17:10:04 Dave Cridland I have the gut feel that doing interop on Friday and the Summit proper on Monday seems best. I'm pretty sure we can easy get enough momentum behind interop.
17:10:33 Dave Cridland imagi, Right. Basic chat is hard to get a proper "Wow" over, which is what we're aiming for here.
17:10:48 ralphm I like that last addition, the fosdem like projects that try to combine smaller projects
17:10:56 cchris434 so are we de-emphasizing the miltary/first responder aspect of it?
17:10:58 stpeter I'd love to see some more interop testing -- e.g., the BOSH testing last year was productive but limited
17:10:58 bear +1 to wording
17:11:02 Dave Cridland Yes, this did occur to me. Nefarious, that's me.
17:11:24 imagi There's a bunch of federated social web people that were thinking of piggybacking onto the XMPP side of things. I'll find out what's happening with that. I know this is an xmpp thing, but it certainly helps having them see XMPP and the light beyond non-federated-http-land.
17:11:24 Dave Cridland cchris434, It's very hard to be breif without potentially rubbing people up the wrong way.
17:11:37 Dave Cridland cchris434, Doesn't stop us from doing things on the day, of course.
17:11:47 ralphm imagi: we are always open for that
17:11:48 cchris434 sure, that's fine
17:12:01 ralphm imagi: like talks in our devroom
17:12:35 imagi bc team has a triple play lined up - from me doing my standard rant-fest to some gritty implementation details from dodo.
17:12:47 stpeter http://www.iab.org/wp-content/IAB-uploads/2011/03/Casado.pdf = XMPP IOT project
17:12:58 imagi I think tuomas wants to talk about some XMPP domain blacklisting stuff too.
17:13:05 stpeter imagi: sounds good
17:13:30 ralphm cchris434: also, the description likely isn't going to be made public
17:13:40 bear i'll reach out to the &yet folks - i'm sure fritzy will be there
17:13:53 Dave Cridland So, pulling us back a bit - Friday Interop, Monday SUmmit (ie, technical talks) - yes or no?
17:14:14 ralphm yea
17:14:18 Ashley +1
17:14:19 MattJ +1
17:14:20 Dave Cridland The reason I want to nail this down is because the Americans need to book flights while they're still relatively cheap.
17:14:26 cchris434 sure
17:14:36 bear +1 (and +1 for flight booking timing)
17:14:43 imagi would it make sense to try and co-ordinate an XMPP and federated social web day on Friday too?
17:14:49 stpeter I can book the Cisco rooms again
17:14:58 Dave Cridland So I count "public support" and unanimous board support. Done with that one then.
17:15:03 imagi I expect there will be no clash with the interop folks.
17:15:04 Dave Cridland stpeter, That makes sense.
17:15:11 stpeter (in fact more rooms so that we can do breakouts for testing)
17:15:16 stpeter (etc.)
17:15:45 Dave Cridland So - do we have sufficient time, energy, and people present to discuss Athena now?
17:16:30 bear we need to fix it - so yes
17:16:42 Dave Cridland I'm actually going to take that as a no, and defer that one until next week.
17:16:59 stpeter ok
17:17:00 stpeter WFM
17:17:04 Dave Cridland I think we do need to get it sorted, but I think we can safely wait a week.
17:17:10 stpeter so, meeting next week at the same time?
17:17:11 cchris434 sure
17:17:43 Dave Cridland I think that works - note that I believe there's a Council meeting typically starting at 1700, so we'd normally have a tighter time constraint than today.
17:17:59 stpeter right
17:18:03 stpeter that's not necessarily a bad thing :)
17:18:09 stpeter time constraints focus the discusion
17:18:13 stpeter +s
17:18:37 bear looks in the mirror
17:18:41 bear and less tardy members
17:18:51 stpeter heh
17:19:22 Dave Cridland Right. So I motion to adjourn.
17:19:39 Ashley ok
17:19:55 bear seconded
17:20:13 Dave Cridland And we're done.
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17:20:25 stpeter adds next week's meeting to the calendar
17:21:01 bear waves and goes to see our Moz's IT has done recovering mail and entire colo from downtime
17:21:18 cchris434 good bye
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17:22:02 stpeter calendar updated at http://xmpp.org/calendar/
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17:37:17 stpeter Dave Cridland: shall I point potential demo people to you or to Ralph or to both?
17:37:44 Dave Cridland stpeter, I think we should probably do the traditional thing and setup a Wiki page.
17:38:00 stpeter heh sure
17:38:01 stpeter ok
17:38:52 stpeter so http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Demos
17:38:56 stpeter will create some content there
17:39:17 Dave Cridland stpeter, Will's not a board member anymore, we can't get him to do it.
17:41:21 stpeter http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Demos created
17:41:32 stpeter I'm going to ping the internet of things people in Spain
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17:48:38 stpeter MattJ: it seems that we never fixed the port 5290 problem on athena (to access the MUC logs)
17:49:15 MattJ Indeed, it's on my list... main hold-up was that I changed SSH key and needed to upload my new ones to hermes and athena
17:49:22 MattJ Did that, then the next day athena was down :)
17:49:22 stpeter ah yeah
17:49:26 stpeter heh
17:54:18 stpeter brb
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19:15:48 Kev "Couldn't send message: Message was rejected"
19:15:53 Kev That'd be why I wasn't seeing any traffic, then.
19:21:03 stpeter heh
19:22:03 stpeter I must say that find it annoying when people send me email messages in French and Italian (etc.) and expect me to read them -- at least use Google Translate or somesuch!
19:23:45 stpeter wanders off to kvetch in a different chatroom
19:27:56 Kev Kvatch? That's a town in Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, isn't it? :)
19:31:31 stpeter :P
19:32:04 stpeter I grew up in the New York City area, so Yiddishims creep into my day-to-day language...
19:39:34 stpeter Yiddishisms even :)
19:40:23 stpeter looks like we need to fill out http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012 -- I'll make a start on that this evening along with other things I've been putting off
19:45:28 stpeter it seems that the email flow has started to slow down already, perhaps this will give me a chance to catch up
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