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dwd
A little less than half an hour to go.
-
stpeter
indeed
- stpeter is on a conference call so not really paying attention here at the moment
- Florian has joined
- lurker11542 has joined
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lurker11542
stpeter tests from speeqe.com
-
stpeter
well, that works, but it seems that Chris can't access speeqe.com either
-
dwd
Right.
-
stpeter
text to speech? ;-)
-
dwd
The only thing I wondered was whether we could setup a 1-1 => MUC relay fast enough.
- bear is slow this morning
-
bear
what do you mean by 1-1
-
bear
?
- stpeter tries to use the gmail web interface for muc and fails utterly
-
dwd
bear, One to one chat.
-
bear
ah
-
bear
thought that was it but the => MUC part was making my post-sick brain all wonky
-
dwd
So, 8 minutes to go and we have 3/5 board folk and one apology.
-
Florian
16:30 meeting?
-
dwd
Florian, Yep.
-
dwd
http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board#Proposed_Agenda
-
dwd
(For those wot 'ave forgot)
-
Florian
do we have an etherpad?
-
dwd
Florian, Do we want one?
-
Florian
it's quite nice to get the minutes ready
- bear considers that to be the note takers option
-
dwd
Florian, You realise you're getting dangerously close to offering to do the minutes this week?
- Florian shuts up
-
Florian
I killed our core server this morning
-
stpeter
http://typewith.me/xsf
-
stpeter
that's our permanent room
-
Florian
by running aptitude without realizing it was removing nearly all packages
-
bear
ouch
- Ashley has joined
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dwd
Yay, it's Ashley!
-
dwd
So we are complete, modulo Chris's apology.
-
bear
I did that once with RHEL 6 - removed the core package that allows yum to update itself
-
Florian
heh
-
Ashley
yay!
-
stpeter
we need a muc to chat bot
-
stpeter
that way we could patch people in
-
dwd
Indeed.
-
dwd
So, I declare us in session.
-
stpeter
http://code.matthewwild.co.uk/riddim/ here I come :)
-
dwd
So, first item is Athena - do we have sufficient item folk to offer advice on what they'd like to do?
-
dwd
Kev, stpeter - I believe this is your bag. What are our options for Athena, and what needs to happen as a priority?
- Florian puts Flosoft.biz hat on
- dwd looks meaningfully across the office at Kev, in the hope he'll reply.
-
Florian
we can offer an upgrade to ds0039 (i.e. a better box)
-
stpeter
BTW I am manually copying text from this room over to Chris
-
Kev
I think the plan was to start mirroring stuff onto ds0039.
-
dwd
stpeter, Ah, yes. I should really have thought of that.
-
Kev
This was dependent upon someone working out database replication for us.
-
Florian
Processor Intel Bi XeonE54052x 4x 2.00 GHz Architecture 64 bits NIC GigaEthernet Memory 16 GB Disks 2x 750GB RAID Soft 0/1 VT Instructions
-
stpeter
for the record, ds0039 is a Flosoft machine
-
bear
stpeter - screen share with chris?
-
Florian
right. Flosoft.biz would be willing to replace that machine with the configuration mentioned above. ds0039 has no RAID.
-
dwd
bear, I'm sure if he could screen share he could do proper XMPP.
-
Kev
I quite like the idea of fixing up athena (either by replacement of disk or box).
- Florian puts his board hat on again
-
stpeter
bear: this will work for now -- I think I'll do some riddim bot hacking over the holidays
-
Kev
I'm not entirely sure I can come up with a convincing reason not to migrate athena over to the offered Flosoft machine, off the top of my head.
- bear was just offering
-
stpeter
Kev: I don't see a good reason
-
Florian
the problem I see with ds0039, it has no RAID
-
bear
+1 to migrate to flosoft: it gives us a recent hardware base and RAID
-
dwd
Kev, What's your unconvincing reasons?
-
Florian
so I would say ds0039 is bad, but Flosoft.biz can replace ds0039 with the dual CPU box above, which does have software RAID
-
stpeter
we've had all the machines in Iowa so that they're all in one place, Jer could check out the hardware if needed, etc.
-
Kev
dwd: I quite like having stuff all in Iowa.
-
dwd
"stuff" == our data?
-
Kev
No, the servers.
-
stpeter
Kev: yeah, but that means we need to maintain machines -- isn't that kind of old-fashioned these days?
-
dwd
Well, having your eggs all in one basket does make them more convenient to carry.
-
Kev
stpeter: Some of us are old fashioned. Not all of us are trendy Lua coders like you.
-
stpeter
and it also means that we have problems if there are connectivity issues
-
Florian
right
-
Kev
But the original suggestion was that we had the main box in the bunker, and then mirrored that over to ds0039.
-
Ashley
is there any reason to consider EC2 or others of that ilk?
-
stpeter
Kev: I'm talking about changing my website back to server-side includes :P
-
Kev
Which seem like a pretty sensible solution to the network failure issue.
- luca tagliaferri has left
-
Kev
Ashley: None that I can think of.
-
dwd
Does that need MySQL expertise to figure out how to keep them in sync properly?
-
Florian
the question is: Do we really need to be syncing stuff?
-
Kev
dwd: Either that, or we set up a cunning reverse proxy thing.
-
Florian
i.e. is there a point in putting in that much effort for a single site?
-
dwd
Do we have, or can we arrange, MySQL expertise?
-
bear
syncing and all that seems overkill for such a basic setup that xsf has
-
Florian
Master-Master replication with MySQL is annoying
-
dwd
Florian, I think it looks really bad when our site is down.
-
Kev
Florian: I don't know. It's jolly inconvenient when the site is down.
-
Florian
bear: I agree
-
stpeter
dwd: agreed, for sure
-
bear
if the urge to keep servers with physical access is that great then iowa is the only option as anything else incurs fully managed server costs
-
Kev
bear: Well, yes, but a previous Board decided we wanted a database driven site and not the nice plain-text one we had before.
-
Florian
dwd / Kev: definitely. But I'm sure the site will be quite reliable on a single server
-
Florian
as the hardware / network is covered by the SLA
-
dwd
Florian, So question - I'm happy to assume that flosoft's bandwidth is perfect; what happens if ds0039++ drops?
-
Florian
if it drops, someone in the DC will take a look at it and bring it back up
-
bear
to answer the original mysql question - a once an hour master/slave setup is very simple to configure (especially if the mirror is readonly)
-
stpeter
I'd be fine with that
-
stpeter
that = website(s?) at Flosoft
-
Florian
I don't think it's worth spending a lot of time on a HA setup for an edge case (the website isn't mission critical)
-
stpeter
Florian: +`1
-
dwd
Florian, What does Flosoft.biz want in compensation? (ie, money, sponsorship, etc)?
-
Kev
Florian: Actually, I'd argue the website is the only mission critical thing!
-
stpeter
Kev: heh
-
dwd
Kev, I'd agree.
-
Kev
The XSF's mission being to shove out these standards things.
-
Florian
dwd: Sponsorship
-
dwd
Florian, In any particular form?
-
Florian
well, what's the level for ± 1200€
-
bear
200pt sponsor text on each page?
-
stpeter
Kev: you have a point
-
dwd
stpeter, Well, he's certainly sharp.
- bear waves the "joke" flag in case it wasn't obvious
-
stpeter
I'll note that the XSF does have money in the bank and could afford to purchase a new machine to replace athena
-
bear
if flosoft is offering a server in exchange for sponsorship status - I like that idea so the cash can go towards other items
-
dwd
Florian, Actually, i don't know what levels there are, really.
-
Florian
http://xmpp.org/sponsor/sponsor-the-xsf/
-
Florian
Silver or Gold
-
stpeter
naturally, another approach (I hate to say this) is to go back to a static website so that it's easier to replicate across servers
-
dwd
Florian, OK. Do you reckon some kind of HA could be sorted for a Gold sponsorship?
-
bear
to make sure I have this clear in my head... the option would be to have primary on flosoft with iowa server being the backup/utility server?
-
Florian
we could set up replication to Iowa
-
dwd
bear, Well, the Board is not going to make technical decisions.
-
Florian
but not a second server
-
Florian
i.e. Flosoft.biz would be happy to help setting up failover mechanisms to external hardware
-
bear
not even thinking on *how* - just asking what the roles would be
-
dwd
bear, The Board can, however, give the item authorization to go various routes.
-
dwd
"iteam".
-
Florian
so technically I'm thinking something like MySQL replication + webserver on another machine in Iowa
-
dwd
So, I think we have those options now - so can we make a decision on whether we could in principle accept Flosoft's offer? (Should the item want it)
-
dwd
I'm +1 on this, incidentally.
-
Florian
I'd like to abstain from this vote as I'm biased.
-
bear
seeing the pushback on not talking specifics, then we can only vote on putting the choice to the iteam and getting their feedback
-
Kev
I think we should have at least Jonathan's input before deciding.
- bear is +1 to this
-
dwd
bear, If the item want to go the Flosoft route, I don't see a need for them to come back to us.
-
Kev
Given that he's largely responsible for 'machine' admin.
-
stpeter
Kev: +1 to getting Jonathan's input
-
dwd
Kev, Right. But that's fine. The iteam can decide to use whatever options we're authorizing here.
-
dwd
Ashley, You happy in principle with Flosoft getting sponsorship in exchange for webserver?
-
Ashley
+1
-
stpeter
BTW, the other major infrastructure that the XSF runs is atlas = all the mailing lists (and we also use athena for running the muc.xmpp.org chatrooms)
-
stpeter
Chris says: " if it's flobiz's offer we are voting on, I think I am fine with this"
-
dwd
OK.
-
dwd
So the other option is to buy a new machine - that is, a replacement Athena.
-
stpeter
BTW, I receive offers of help on occasion from random ISPs and hosting providers and such -- I should keep better track of those
-
stpeter
dwd: right
-
stpeter
dwd: and atlas won't last forever, either
-
stpeter
would we be comfortable hosting both email and web and muc.xmpp.org on the same machine?
-
Kev
I was pondering that.
-
stpeter
that's probably an iteam discussion item
-
dwd
stpeter, Right, that's one for iteam.
-
Kev
We've traditionally limited access to the mail machine much more than to the others.
-
bear
the server that flosoft is offering can handle all of that
-
stpeter
Kev: right
-
Florian
right
-
stpeter
ok my other conference call is finished so I have more cycles
-
Florian
16GB of RAM and 2x 4 Core CPUs
-
dwd
My gut feeling is that machines which handle mail and XMPP should probably stay in Iowa.
-
dwd
I'm not sure I can construct and argument as to why.
-
stpeter
heh
-
Florian
heh
-
bear
status quo is hard to shift
-
Florian
I'd say that is something for Iteam to discuss anyways
-
stpeter
I think I'd be comfortable with putting mail and xmpp (which is limited) on the same machine
-
stpeter
Florian: agreed
-
stpeter
or we can discuss on the members@ list
-
Florian
so we're authorizing: - A Flosoft.biz sponsored machine - Buying a new machine
-
dwd
So if we're to buy a new machine for Athena, and possible Atlas as well, what costs are we looking at, and is this within the scope of the XSF's current cash reserves?
-
stpeter
which might attract more people to help with infrastructure issues
-
dwd
stpeter, The final decision remains with the iteam, though, I feel.
-
Kev
Atlas is, as far as I'm aware, very low requirement.
-
stpeter
dwd: that leads into your next agenda item :)
-
Kev
In fact, given the age of the various boxes, all the requirements are fairly low.
-
stpeter
dwd: "Teams, SIGs, and other constructs "
-
stpeter
KEv: yes
-
dwd
It does. We're also running wildly over. :-)
-
stpeter
dwd: indeed
-
dwd
OK. So I think we ask the iteam to scope out hardware costs and come back to us, OK?
-
stpeter
I think so, yes
-
bear
+1
-
dwd
OK, so next item...
-
Kev
Board Chair to chase iteam, then.
-
Florian
sure
-
dwd
Kev, Well, walk firmly after them anyway.
-
dwd
"Teams, SIGs and other constructs".
-
dwd
So a team is defined as beign XSF members only.
-
dwd
Whereas a SIG is open to all-comers.
-
bear
IMO, the only team we need like that is iTeam
-
stpeter
per they Bylaws, yes
-
stpeter
http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-bylaws/
-
dwd
We've got both a communications team and a tech-review team, and the iteam.
- stpeter should add a table of contents to that page
-
dwd
Are there any others?
-
stpeter
no
-
Kev
I'm not convinced that we have a communications team or a tech review team in anything other than name.
-
stpeter
Kev: correct
-
dwd
Well, nor me.
-
stpeter
Kev: and I am not convinced that we need them
- bear agrees
-
Florian
+1
-
stpeter
I think that everyone can (and many should) be helping with technical reviews, but that's what the standards@xmpp.org list is for
-
bear
the only structure I could see to SIGs is a tech council or board member being on "hook" for any SIGs
-
dwd
OK. So do we need to try and motivate people to do a "communications SIG", so we can push news and exciting stuff from any sources?
-
stpeter
and communications can happen easily because many people have access to the website to make changes (although few do) -- however, there's more to communication than the website, I suppose, with all the social networking stuff we could do
-
stpeter
BTW Chris has another meeting to go to
-
bear
I would love to create a little dashboard to allow for pushing to the various social streams
-
dwd
OK, that's fine. We're overrunning, anyway.
-
dwd
I'm assuming everyone is happy keeping the iteam as a formal team (assuming it is one).
-
Florian
why not just have an open mailinglist
-
Florian
where people can post ready articles to?
-
dwd
Florian, Yeah, that is, in effect, a SIG.
-
stpeter
Florian: I just shut down the news@jabber.org list :)
-
Florian
that existed?
-
stpeter
yes
-
stpeter
from 1999 on
-
Florian
well, something like: submit@xmpp.org
-
bear
people can post to members list with subject line marker [news] or something
-
stpeter
but we haven't used it in ages
-
Florian
or that
-
stpeter
bear: yeah
-
dwd
bear, That restricts it to only members, though.
-
bear
for xsf comm output - I don't mind it being members only
-
bear
it's communication *from* xsf
-
bear
not about
-
stpeter
right
-
dwd
bear, Is it? The comm team used to produce newsletters about XMPP.
-
stpeter
dwd: really?
-
dwd
stpeter, Did it not?
-
stpeter
we did have the "Jabber Journal" back in the old days
-
Kev
Nyco used to do roundups, yes.
-
bear
their was a blog posting that used to be done regularly - the roundups
-
stpeter
ah true
-
stpeter
I never saw those as "newsletters" :)
-
stpeter
thus the disconnect
-
dwd
Right, sorry, I forgot the name.
-
bear
I'm feeling that if we get pushback from the community that it's hard to post notices about xmpp from non-members we can adjust
-
dwd
I don't think we'd get that pushback. We're not getting anything much at the moment, after all.
-
bear
I just get all squeamish about the xsf blog being available for anyone to push text to
-
Ashley
would something like having a reddit clone for ppl to post news articles be interesting?
-
Kev
Ashley: I don't understand the concept.
-
stpeter
let's go with bear's suggestion as a start -- in any case, it can't hurt AFAICS
-
dwd
But in any case, we're reasonably sure that the communications team and the tech-review team can be formally disbanded?
-
bear
sounds like something the "social media" SIG can handle and make recommendations :)
-
Ashley
i'm assuming we're talking about articles that might exist somewhere on a public URL
- bear invites Ashley to help form the SocialSIG with him
-
Kev
Ashley: Ah, I think we generally push 'unique' content.
-
Ashley
sure, that'd be fun bear!
-
Kev
Finding other stuff people have written sounds interesting.
-
bear
+1 to disbanding the formal comm and tech teams
-
stpeter
(just to back up, it appears we have agreement that the Technical Review Team was a nice idea but hasn't panned out -- shall we propose on the members@ list to disband that one?)
-
stpeter
heh
-
stpeter
bear: I think that's reasonable
-
dwd
Florian, ?
-
Ashley
reddit is a digg clone
-
stpeter
we can always start them again if needed / desired, but I don't see a need for them
-
Florian
yes
-
dwd
Ashley, ?
- jef has joined
-
Florian
+1
-
Ashley
sorry, backing up and reading :)
-
Florian
no more formal teams
-
Ashley
ah +1
-
dwd
OK.
-
bear
(well, iteam still remains as formal)?
-
Kev
Florian: I don't think the vote was for *all* teams?
-
Florian
not all, no :)
-
Florian
the tech and comm team
-
dwd
So, we'll scuttle to the next item...
-
Ashley
for example, here's ycombinators implementation of reddit: http://news.ycombinator.com/
-
dwd
Do we want either an Interop SIG or a FOSDEM Team?
-
stpeter
interesting
-
Florian
do we need one?
-
Florian
I would say, let's allow teams if there are people for it
-
stpeter
FOSDEM just happens, doesn't it?
-
stpeter
Interop is a possibility, but we might want to just work on some code there first and we do have the interop@ email list
-
Florian
+1
-
dwd
stpeter, I think an "Interop SIG" is identical to the interop mailing list, except that it gets some XSF authority.
-
stpeter
dwd: FWIW yes
-
dwd
stpeter, And as for FOSDEM, we're trying to do quite a lot this year, and I think putting together a formal, if short-lived, team might help get some focus on that.
-
bear
+1 to Interop SIG and FOSDEM SIG - the latter happens organically it seems even if we don't "bless" it
-
Florian
+1
-
dwd
bear, Note I proposed a FOSDEM *team* - as in, members only.
-
bear
sorry - got carried away with the urge to type SIG
-
dwd
bear, Rather than allowing an open free-for-all, basically.
- bear amends +1 to be for suggested breakdown
-
stpeter
dwd: it could be a standing team that gets active once a year -- we might want to have a separate OSCON team if we think that's important
-
bear
Events Team
-
Florian
let's start with a FOSDEM Team
-
Florian
and see how it goes :)
-
dwd
stpeter, I think a team that's dormant for 10 months of the year is the moral equivalent of a short-lived team, but yes, we can deal with that as we reach it.
- stpeter is unconvinced that we need an events team since we can just coordinate on the members@ list
-
dwd
stpeter, It's useful having people to explicitly kick.
-
stpeter
perchance
-
bear
I need to run to a different meeting
-
dwd
Ashley, Any opinion? If not, we can take this one to the list.
-
Ashley
i don't feel particularly strongly either way. i do however agree with dwd's point
-
Ashley
i think need some sort of official POC or two for the events
-
dwd
OK, let's leave this to another time, then, if bear's going. We're still quorate for now, we'll discuss on the list.
-
dwd
Sorry. Unclear.
-
dwd
We're still quorate for now, however, we'll discuss on the list.
-
bear
:)
-
Florian
:)
-
dwd
OK, so I shall propose a motion to adjourn.
-
Ashley
+1
-
Florian
+1
- bear seconds
-
bear
next meeting?
-
dwd
Same bat-time, same bat-channel.
-
bear
sweet
-
stpeter
does that mean next Wednesday?
-
dwd
It does.
-
Florian
+1
- bear flees for much more boring but facetime required meeting
-
dwd
Except we have to call it Bat-Wednesday.
-
stpeter
ok, I will add it to the calendar
-
dwd
Ta.
-
dwd
Florian, You writing up the minutes, then?
-
stpeter
I did some editing at http://typewith.me/xsf but was doing too many things at once :(
-
Florian
I can, I've got some notes on typewith.me
-
Florian
but I need to run out for a dinner
-
Florian
will send later tonight if that's ok
-
stpeter
sure
-
stpeter
I'll do some editing there as well
-
stpeter
brb
-
stpeter
calendar updated
- stpeter has left
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-
stpeter
http://typewith.me/xsf updated
-
stpeter
I need to run an errand, bbiab
-
dwd
I can do them tomorrow, actually, I was only winding Florian up. :-)
- dwd has left
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stpeter
heh
-
stpeter
anyway, bbiab
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