-
dwd
My phone just nudged me about the meeting.
-
dwd
My initial thought was "But surely that's on Wednesday?!"
-
stpeter
:)
-
dwd
I wonder if anyone else remembered.
-
stpeter
it's in the calendar...
-
Kev
I'm too busy writing about PSA...
-
stpeter
perhaps few use that
-
dwd
stpeter, That's the same excuse my wife uses.
-
stpeter
Kev: there's a public service announcement?
-
Kev
No, Presence State Annotations, silly.
-
dwd
stpeter, Ah, he's not mentioned this one to you yet?
- stpeter is slammed today with IESG work
-
stpeter
Kev: ah yes, I forgot about that
-
dwd
stpeter, We felt that since I aready had Dialback-Without-Dialback, you ought to have this one. :-)
-
stpeter
aw shucks
-
kevin
Wew..very tired...I have to go us next month.I have a very hard exam(
-
stpeter
it's confusing to have "Kev" and "kevin" here :)
-
Kev
Yes, I noticed that.
-
Kev
It's confusing enough just me being here.
-
stpeter
I don't see Ashley online
-
stpeter
nor Florian
-
dwd
No, nor me. Actually I don't see any directors about.
-
stpeter
agreed
-
dwd
I mean, aside from me, and bear (who is online, but I suspect only in a connected kind of way).
-
dwd
I also don't see Ralph, and I was going to ask if there was any news on the stand/booth/lounge thing?
-
dwd
(And why I put a question mark there I don't know)
-
Kev
I've not heard from Ralph since I poked him about a Council meeting several weeks ago.
-
stpeter
ditto
-
dwd
The FOSDEM website still says acceptance notifications will be on the 22nd of last month, and proposals are under consideration.
-
stpeter
I haven't seen anything about it on the FOSDEM list
-
Kev
http://doomsong.co.uk/extensions/render/psa.html is the current protodraft of PSA, FWIW.
-
dwd
Florian says he's driving, and talkonaut doesn't want to log in.
-
dwd
Which is probably a good thing.
-
stpeter
heh
-
stpeter
um yeah
-
dwd
His driving is interesting enough without him trying to type, too.
-
stpeter
it's difficult to schedule meetings the first few days after such long holidays...
-
dwd
Yeah, I realise this is a little ambitious.
-
dwd
Trouble is, with FOSDEM, there's things to keep an eye on.
-
stpeter
indeed
-
Kev
Current state is that we know we have a room, but don't know about the stand yet, but have decided on Fri/Mon?
-
stpeter
righio
-
dwd
That's about the shape.
-
dwd
We've not actually considered talks at all.
-
Kev
Do we know that we managed to *request* a stand?
-
stpeter
however I need to follow up with the Cisco folks in Brussels about quite a few things, won't have time until tomorrow afternoon
-
dwd
I don't know for certain that it went off. I know we wrote the proposal, though.
-
Kev
Better than last year.
-
dwd
Right, well this meeting's obviously not going to happen, unless I declare a quorum of one
-
dwd
And that seems rather dictatorial.
-
stpeter
:)
-
Kev
Perhaps we should change the bylaws so that Council Chair and Executive Director can count insted of Board members.
-
Kev
It might increase the chances of reaching quorum from time to time.
-
dwd
I did wonder about making those positions ex-officio, but that doesn't help, I think.
-
Kev
I don't think that it necessarily follows that it doesn't.
-
dwd
Ex-officio members don't vote and don't count for quorum, I think.
-
Kev
Typically, or in the bylaws?
-
Kev
I don't remember ex-officio rules in our bylaws, particularly, and ex-officio doesn't necessarily imply less-than-normal membership elsewhere, I think.
-
dwd
Plus if Exec Director and Council CHair were formally counted, and could vote, then they'd be voting members not selected directly by the members, which - I think - would be wrong.
-
stpeter
agreed
-
Kev
Well, Council Chair would be directly selected, ED admittedly wouldn't.
-
stpeter
brb
-
Kev
Naturally not if it changed mid-term.
-
Kev
Well, ok, depends how you mean 'directly'.
-
dwd
Kev, No, Council members are directly selected, but the Council chair is selected by the Council, so in principle that's indirect.
-
Kev
Each Council member is directly selected and has the potential to become Chair.
-
Kev
Right.
-
Kev
How's the xmppverify project going, btw?
-
dwd
I've not looked.
-
stpeter
it's not going
-
dwd
We've a list of fosdem@xmpp.org, correct?
-
stpeter
I still need to post to the members@ list about the various teams and sigs
-
dwd
I was just drafting something along those lines for the FOSDEM/Interop ones.
-
dwd
Hence my query.
-
stpeter
we have summit@
-
stpeter
I can create fosdem@
-
stpeter
for the fosdem team
-
stpeter
if desired
-
dwd
No, summit@ is fine.
-
stpeter
http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo is shorter than it used to be :)
-
dwd
I don't think they need a second list, and I'm sure that anyone generally interested in the summit will be interested in FOSDEM.
- stpeter nods
-
Kev
Oh, on the contrary, I'm interested in the summit but FOSDEM bores me silly :)
-
stpeter
:)
-
Kev
I'd just as soon have all three days somewhere else.
-
Kev
Ideally Cardiff.
-
stpeter
:)
-
Kev
London at a push.
-
dwd
Bridgend?
-
Kev
Sure, we could do the XSF meal at the Ashoka.
-
stpeter
that'd be fine with me
-
stpeter
I'm not wedded to FOSDEM or Brussels
-
dwd
stpeter, You realise the train journey almost exceeds the flight time?
-
Kev
I think Bridgend generally lacks the culture of other places. Any other places.
-
stpeter
it's just happened to be convenient in the past
-
Kev
Cardiff's nice, London's find and is easy for everyone to get to.
-
Kev
s/find/fine/
-
stpeter
I think it would be fun to hold an XMPP meetup in Denver at the same time as http://www.greatamericanbeerfestival.com/ :)
-
stpeter
or make it more general than just XMPP -- The Great American App Festival sounds like a catchy name...
-
dwd
DO we call it the "XSF Summit", or the "XMPP Summit"?
-
Kev
Traditionally, the XMPP Summit, I believe.
-
dwd
Ah, "XMPP Summit".
-
stpeter
XMPP Summit
-
dwd
A few things to note about the upcoming XMPP Summit, happening at the same time as FOSDEM 2012. 1) The XSF has a formal "Work Team", open to any members, to lead the self-organization of our FOSDEM 2012 experience. Members should feel overwhelmingly encouraged to join, and help. Mailing list is at summit@xmpp.org (this list also covers other Summit-ty things). 2) The XSF has also formed a formal "Special Interest Group", open to all, to discuss Interop testing at the XMPP Summit, and in particular the Friday before FOSDEM 2012. Mailing list is at interop@xmpp.org 3) Finally, the XSF has a dev room at FOSDEM 2012, and has several slots available for interesting XMPP-related talks. In general, these talks are best used to target audiences wider than the core XMPP community. Talks are welcome from all. Thanks, Dave. (As XSF Chair)
-
dwd
Sending to both members@ and standards@, comments?
-
Kev
Not really.
-
stpeter
fire away
-
dwd
Added summit@ and interop@, for no good reason.
-
dwd
Well, makes people aware if they've already joined the lists and forgotten about them.
- stpeter nods
-
stpeter
thanks
-
Kev
Unless someone's unsubbed me, I'm on both lists.
-
dwd
You'll soon find out.
-
Kev
Although I only see that mail on members. I wonder if gmail is doing odd squashing.
-
dwd
It'd be impressive, since they've different subject lines, but they do have the same message id.
-
Kev
from: Dave Cridland dave@cridland.net reply-to: XSF Members <members@xmpp.org> to: XSF Members <members@xmpp.org>, XMPP Standards <standards@xmpp.org>, XMPP Summit <summit@xmpp.org>, XMPP Interop <interop@xmpp.org> date: Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 5:03 PM subject: [Members] XMPP Summit and FOSDEM 2012
-
Kev
Says gmail.
-
dwd
Well, I'm *pretty* sure you're on standards@, so...
-
Kev
I have been in the past, at least.
-
stpeter
dwd: are there minutes for the Board meeting at which we decided to close the CommTeam and TechReview Team?
-
dwd
stpeter, Think so.
-
dwd
Ah, yes, but only went to Board list.
-
stpeter
ah
-
Kev
Using the members list for Board business is going well, then.
-
stpeter
:P
-
dwd
Our esteemed chair also forwarded them using the wrong account, which didn't help much either.
-
stpeter
heh
-
stpeter
hi Florian!
-
Florian
hi
-
dwd
Florian, Hiya. Did you book dinner, BTW?
-
Florian
so sorry I'm late
-
Florian
traffic jam on the ring
-
Florian
eh, not yet. I can go there tomorrow
-
Florian
same place?
-
Florian
with coach as usual?
-
dwd
I think the same place, with a message bus.
-
dwd
It's a good restaurant, and a good price, as I recall.
-
Kev
Is this the same as two years ago?
-
Florian
yes
-
dwd
Yes.
-
Kev
Vaguely remember it being sensible at teh time.
-
dwd
Kev, I know, they don't do pizza, but even so it's quite good.
-
Florian
I'll possibly change the menu a bit like I did last year
-
Florian
but I recall dwd .. you really liked one of the options?
-
dwd
Florian, There was something with bacon, yes.
-
dwd
Florian, And carpaccio.
-
Florian
right, I'll get together with them tomorrow
-
Florian
should I also try to get the Hotel?
-
dwd
Florian, But I'm assuming we're not going to get sponsorship from Nokia this time?
-
Florian
either the Best Western or the Meridien?
-
Florian
no, so it might be that people will need to pay a bit
-
dwd
Florian, Which was last year's? Meridien?
-
Florian
I mean, normally the full menu is €26
-
Florian
+ drinks
-
Florian
which is very reasonable
-
Florian
last year, Meridien
-
dwd
stpeter, Which hotel did you guys stay in?
-
stpeter
not a good one
-
stpeter
got booked into the wrong one
-
dwd
stpeter, Ah, OK.
-
dwd
stpeter, I thought it was a Cisco rate thing.
-
Florian
right
-
stpeter
it was quite a walk from the train station
-
Florian
but I recall our rate was quite good in the Meridien (5*)
-
stpeter
not *that* far
-
dwd
Florian, Meridien was good, yes.
-
stpeter
but had no wifi, right?
-
Florian
the Best Western (4*) was good as well
-
dwd
Florian, Which was that? The modern one near the chocolate shop?
-
Florian
it was the one where we had the summit in the basement
-
Florian
-2 underground
-
dwd
Florian, Oh, yes.
-
dwd
Florian, I didn't stay there.
-
dwd
(No Bacon!!!)
-
Florian
bit more affordable probably
-
Florian
but I'll get the rates tomorrow
-
dwd
Florian, See what we can get.
-
Florian
I'll look for 10 rooms
-
dwd
Florian, Isode is sending an alarming number this year.
-
Florian
10 double rooms should be alright?
-
dwd
Florian, So there's, erm, potentially 5 rooms just for us.
-
Florian
ok
-
Florian
I'll go for 12 then
-
Florian
but those are single rooms?
-
Kev
5 for Isode, 12 for Florian, anyone else going?
-
Florian
haha :D
-
dwd
FLorian's entourage takes a lot of room, you know.
-
Kev
Naturally.
-
Florian
it's a big entourage ;)
-
Florian
and I take care of my peeps :)
-
dwd
Kev, It's the groupies I feel sorry for.
-
Florian
right ... so those are action items for me tomorrow
-
Florian
anything else I missed? T-Shirts?
-
dwd
Florian, But yes, shop around. I don't feel any of us *need* 5 star.
-
Florian
Realtime Lounge
-
dwd
Yeah, we need to consider t-shirts.
-
dwd
Florian, And we don't know anything on the stand front.
-
dwd
But I do have a pico-projector. Yay!
-
Florian
I'll have an N9 by that time :)
-
dwd
Florian, Oh? I did have an offer for getting them cheap. But I've decided it's not worth it - nicer to have maintained stuff.
-
Florian
interesting, how cheap? :)
-
dwd
Florian, To you...
-
dwd
Florian, Actually I can't remember.
-
dwd
Florian, But I figured it was cheaper to get a Lumia and reflash it.
-
Florian
well, I found them for £349 ... but then decided to bug people
-
dwd
Or at least simpler.
-
Florian
hehe ... not the same hardware though
-
Florian
anyways ...
-
Florian
what else is there to do for FOSDEM?
-
dwd
So, did you get anywhere on a dev challenge?
-
Florian
are the Cisco rooms booked?
-
dwd
Florian, stpeter said earlier he had some follow-up there.
-
Florian
dev challenge: haven't thought about it yet ...
-
Florian
will look for sponsors
-
dwd
Florian, Google, Samsung... Maybe ASUS/Acer?
-
dwd
Florian, Only Google would seem to have much contact with XMPP.
-
Kev
Find someone who'll sponsor an Android phone, and award it to the person doing the best Android UI for Swift :D
-
Florian
:)
-
Florian
I'll sjop around
-
Florian
else, would the XSF be able to award a prize?
-
Florian
that way we could also have a wider dev challenge goal
-
dwd
Florian, We'd need to find a sponsor to pay for it, still.
-
Kev
Why?
-
Kev
I thought the question was whether the XSF could buy something out of funds.
-
Florian
right
-
Kev
Not that the XSF has all that much money in the bank, I think.
-
Florian
and not that I'd want that
-
stpeter
~$10k
-
Florian
but it's an option I'd like to know about
-
dwd
Well, to be honest, I don't see why we-XSF would want to do it.
-
Florian
well, if we want to motivate people to write XMPP code ...
-
dwd
Florian, The XSF want to motivate people to write detailed specifications for needed protocols, though, surely? But a XEP-writing challenge sounds a little uninteresting.
-
Florian
doesn't the XSF also want to promote XMPP adoption though?
-
dwd
Florian, Yes, true enough.
-
Florian
again, I don't really want to have the XSF pay for a prize
-
Florian
BUT
-
Florian
if it's that or no dev challenge ... I'd consider it
-
dwd
I think it's something that a sponsor would pay for, in any case.
-
Florian
ok, I'll go and look :)
-
Kev
I think it's something that seems nice in principle but actually doesn't get us much.
-
Florian
if anyone has any contacts at Apple, Google ...
-
Florian
drop me a line :D
-
Florian
Kev: true ... but question is ... was this because it was focused on Mobile?
-
Florian
or a specific area?
-
Kev
It's bcause it's not really practical.
-
Kev
"With two weeks' notice, write something cool and novel!".
-
Kev
Or
-
Kev
"Show us something cool you've already done"
-
Kev
Now, if we could give 12 months notice and say "Have the biggest contribution towards the open testing framework", that might be something.
-
Florian
well, we can do that as well
-
Florian
and then have the official "Launch" at the Summit
-
Kev
But we've got the close source vs. open source, cool vs. useful, etc. etc. etc. stuff going on.
-
Kev
It's all just a bit messy.
-
Kev
So if someone donates a phone to us, great, it's a bit cool and we can give it to someone for some arbitrary reason.
-
Kev
But I don't think it provides significant value to the XSF, or to the event.
-
Kev
(It probably does to the individual winning the device)
-
Florian
hmm, ok
-
Kev
Now, mind.
-
dwd
It'd be more fun if it did run for a year, and we showed off the exciting projects at the end, instead of only showing them in a small room in front of the Converted.
-
Kev
We could do an award for "Greatest contribution to XMPP" or something.
-
dwd
I wondered about that.
-
dwd
But:
-
Kev
Which is only slightly pointless as it'd be Peter each and every bloody year.
-
Florian
heh
-
Florian
yeah
-
dwd
Right. Failing that, you win.
-
dwd
It becomes a dangerous thing of back-slapping.
-
Kev
It'll be ED, Council or Board, at least.
-
Kev
Probably.
-
dwd
Maybe "Best newcomer"?
-
Kev
Yes.
-
Kev
(Yes to previous backslapping)
- dwd slaps Kev's back.
-
Kev
I was thinking about something like like, although I've not yet articulated the idea sufficiently.
-
Kev
I'd like "Best new XMPP project", but that's not right.
-
Kev
(Because mostly we'd rather have stable projects than lots of two-month projects existing and falling off)
-
Kev
(Royal we)
-
dwd
You're CHair of the Council, ROyal we is appropriate, yes.
-
Kev
Then there's "XMPP Client of the year" or "XMPP Server of the year", neither of which are viable.
-
dwd
That'd be just a tad contentious.
-
Kev
Right. Not viable.
-
Kev
Swift's the best client, anyway.
-
Kev
Swift's probably the best server, too, if it means I get goodies.
-
Florian
:D
-
Kev
Oh, and Swiften's the best library.
-
Kev
etc.
-
dwd
Best logo?
-
Kev
Ah, yes, Psi should win something :)
-
dwd
:-P
-
Kev
So, my upshot is that if Florian can easily find someone to donate something cool, then yay, we can find a way to donate it to someone and raise a small amount of noise.
-
Florian
right
-
Kev
That the overall XSF gain isn't significant, though, so not to put too much effort into it.
-
dwd
So anyway, this sounds like we're looking at, if anything, a year-long dev challenge, or at best a "Come to FOSDEM and Show Your Thang™ at the Realtime Lounge™ to win a prize!!!".
-
Kev
More interesting would be finding someone willing to sponsor prizes for progress to the validator, or similar XSF-interesting projects.
-
Florian
dwd: a lot of TM
-
Kev
In fact, I think Board could take on such a challenge with good reason, if they felt there was a chance of progress.
-
dwd
I'm somewhat swayed that encouraging people to show cool things at the stand is a worthy objective, but I'm not sure it's worth the XSF splashing out for.
-
Kev
Cool Stuff At The Stand™ is interesting, I'll grant.
-
dwd
Mostly because it achieves the objective of ensnaring developer mindshare.
-
Kev
And provides an unscientific but satisfying judging criterion.
-
dwd
Right.
-
Kev
(Perceived popularity from passers-by)
-
Kev
Although then we have the problem of everyone who's ever written an XMPP client thinking their client is new and interesting and much better than everyone else's so it deserves airtime on the stand.
-
Kev
And I don't think demoing a client that's slightly more usable than other clients, in slightly different ways, is exactly the point of a realytimeyloungey.
-
dwd
Agreed, but too much stuff to show would be a problem I'd enjoy solving.
-
Kev
(I'm not even proposing we demo Swift at the stand)
-
dwd
RIght, I need to wander off for a bit, to hav efood with the family.
-
Kev
(Well, not as a boring XMPP client, there *are* fun applications of it...)
-
Kev
Enjoy.
-
Kev
See, four people attending the Board meeting, that's good going out of a Board of five people.
-
Kev
A slight shame that only 2 of the attendees were Board...
-
stpeter
:P
- stpeter notes that he's reviewing https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sieve-include/ and hasn't been paying close attention
-
Kev
More attention than 3/5 of Board.
-
Florian
so what needs to be done for the realtime lounge?
-
Florian
are we waiting for a reply from FOSDEM?
-
Kev
I don't know, I'm aware it's planned, but not what.
-
Kev
I think so, yes.
-
Florian
ok
-
Florian
btw, Kev: when is Swift getting history?
-
Kev
Not 2.0, sadly.
-
Florian
damn :(
-
Florian
it's the thing that I miss most in it
-
Kev
Understood.
-
stpeter
BTW, what are all the Isode folks interested in working on / discussing in Brussels? any interop testing on offer?
-
Kev
You'd need to speak to our VP of XMPP about that!
-
Kev
I would have thought that we'd participate in any interop testing that was happening, at least.
-
stpeter
well, as you know, interop testing requires some organizational efforts :)
-
stpeter
BOSH testing was semi-productive last time
-
Florian
it was
-
dwd
Il Vice-Presidente would be interested in doing interop on BOSH again.
-
dwd
And in general terms, whatever we can interop test, we're willing to be involved in - I can run up CAs and whatever as required, too.
- ralphm waves
-
ralphm
Florian:I'm not sure why we haven't heard back from FOSDEM, but I checked and haven't gotten a reply
-
ralphm
Also, I think we messed up with sending out a call for participation for the devroom
-
ralphm
as in, not having done that
-
stpeter
hey ralphm
-
stpeter
time for lunch, bbiaf
-
Neustradamus
It will be possible to choice a license for the XMPP logo ? because MIT is for software...
-
stpeter
we use MIT for documents, why not images?
-
ralphm
Neustradamus: please actually read the license stpeter has pointed to in the emails.
-
ralphm
http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-ipr-policy/#legal
-
Neustradamus
already done but it is not very clear :/
-
ralphm
as stpeter has mentioned, it was modified to not be about code
-
Neustradamus
ok.
-
stpeter
I don't have time to look at it today, but I will do so again tomorrow
-
ralphm
it does mention 'Specification'
-
ralphm
so maybe we could work on that
-
ralphm
other than that, what you can do with it seems really clear
-
stpeter
as you might recall, we once used a Creative Commons license but that conflicted with the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which is why we moved to MIT
-
Neustradamus
ok
-
Neustradamus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Debian-OpenLogo.svg I see.
-
Neustradamus
We can see for add a part about the logo http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-ipr-policy/#legal ;)
-
stpeter
Neustradamus: interesting about the Debian logo
-
stpeter
Neustradamus: that might work
-
stpeter
Neustradamus: as I said, I won't have time to really think about this until tomorrow
-
Neustradamus
yes no problem ;)
-
Neustradamus
can you see tomorrow for the xmpp.org theme in the same time ?
-
Neustradamus
about the FOSDEM, have you seen with Goffi ( Salut à Toi project) ?
-
stpeter
yes, I will look at this stuff tomorrow or Friday
-
ralphm
stpeter: just provide the postscript for the logo and license that with MIT. Done. :-)
-
stpeter
heh nice :)
-
Neustradamus
http://www.debian.org/logos/ there is a nice page, good example for XSF maybe ;)
-
ralphm
so it appears Debian has its own issues, w.r.t. trademarks
- stpeter nods to ralphm
-
Neustradamus
yes.
-
ralphm
I don't think we could or want to trademark 'XMPP', and the license for the swirl seems to be a regular MIT license
-
Neustradamus
about the Jabber logo, how is it ?
-
ralphm
falling under 'and associated documentation files'
-
ralphm
Neustradamus: I believe the Jabber logo is also designed for the XSF
-
ralphm
then Jabber Software Foundation
-
Kev
"Jabber" Is trademarked, though.
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ralphm
and the same applies, except that 'Jabber' does a have trademark
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ralphm
currently owned by Cisco
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ralphm
and licensed through the XSF
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Neustradamus
yes but the Jabber Software Foundation is now XMPP Standards Foundation, and Jabber Inc. is now a part of Cisco.
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ralphm
Neustradamus: you can use the Logo freely
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ralphm
Neustradamus: for anything with 'Jabber' in it, formally you'd need a license.
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ralphm
http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/jabber-trademark/
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Neustradamus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jabber_logo_simple.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jabber-bulb.svg (http://www.jabber.org/images/jsf-logo.vectorized.eps) http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/jabber-trademark/ (logo or image is missing :D)
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ralphm
heh vectorized. I create that one at some point
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ralphm
by tracing a large png
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stpeter
well, there is fair use of various jabber stuff, see the trademark licensing policy
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ralphm
stpeter: sure, that's why I linked to it
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ralphm
those provisions are also an implicit license
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Kev
Explicit, in fact :p
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ralphm
so in all cases, a license is required
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ralphm
even though it is automatic or whatever
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stpeter
IPR stuff makes my head hurt
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stpeter
not as bad as internationalization stuff, though
- stpeter moves on to reviewing https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6lowpan-nd/
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ralphm
good move
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stpeter
necessary move, anyway
- dwd catches up.
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dwd
ralphm, So basically FOSDEM are running behind a bit on the stands, we think?
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ralphm
dwd: yes
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ralphm
dwd: it is also stated on their website that they are still in review
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dwd
ralphm, Yeah, but it also states they'll be sending out acceptance on the 22nd of December, so...
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ralphm
I know
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ralphm
yaloki: ralphm: no, they're done but we need to announce them
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ralphm
dwd: so there
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ralphm
yaloki: ralphm: let's say "this week" yaloki: ralphm: but yes, you have your stand
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dwd
\o/
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dwd
ralphm, Tell him thanks.
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ralphm
does 'awesome' cover that?
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dwd
ralphm, Kinda. Tell him an official thanks from the XSF, and that we appreciate all the hard work. (Well as official as his "you have your stand" is).
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ralphm
'np yw'
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ralphm
hehe
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Neustradamus
Note : Update of the year on XEPs... (2011 becomes 2012).
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ralphm
It is likely that the XEPs haven't changed (yet) this year
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ralphm
also, the notice is not actually required
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dwd
Not requiredm but it is advisable.