XSF Discussion - 2012-01-04

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16:18:43 dwd My phone just nudged me about the meeting.
16:19:02 dwd My initial thought was "But surely that's on Wednesday?!"
16:20:15 stpeter :)
16:23:35 dwd I wonder if anyone else remembered.
16:23:47 stpeter it's in the calendar...
16:23:53 Kev I'm too busy writing about PSA...
16:23:54 stpeter perhaps few use that
16:23:59 dwd stpeter, That's the same excuse my wife uses.
16:24:05 stpeter Kev: there's a public service announcement?
16:24:14 Kev No, Presence State Annotations, silly.
16:24:18 dwd stpeter, Ah, he's not mentioned this one to you yet?
16:24:20 stpeter is slammed today with IESG work
16:24:30 stpeter Kev: ah yes, I forgot about that
16:24:40 dwd stpeter, We felt that since I aready had Dialback-Without-Dialback, you ought to have this one. :-)
16:24:50 stpeter aw shucks
16:25:48 kevin Wew..very tired...I have to go us next month.I have a very hard exam(
16:28:41 kevin has left
16:29:05 stpeter it's confusing to have "Kev" and "kevin" here :)
16:29:14 Kev Yes, I noticed that.
16:29:24 Kev It's confusing enough just me being here.
16:29:24 stpeter I don't see Ashley online
16:29:47 stpeter nor Florian
16:29:51 dwd No, nor me. Actually I don't see any directors about.
16:30:07 stpeter agreed
16:30:13 dwd I mean, aside from me, and bear (who is online, but I suspect only in a connected kind of way).
16:31:03 dwd I also don't see Ralph, and I was going to ask if there was any news on the stand/booth/lounge thing?
16:31:14 dwd (And why I put a question mark there I don't know)
16:31:21 Kev I've not heard from Ralph since I poked him about a Council meeting several weeks ago.
16:31:37 stpeter ditto
16:32:27 dwd The FOSDEM website still says acceptance notifications will be on the 22nd of last month, and proposals are under consideration.
16:33:06 stpeter I haven't seen anything about it on the FOSDEM list
16:34:32 Kev http://doomsong.co.uk/extensions/render/psa.html is the current protodraft of PSA, FWIW.
16:35:04 dwd Florian says he's driving, and talkonaut doesn't want to log in.
16:35:09 dwd Which is probably a good thing.
16:35:09 stpeter heh
16:35:13 stpeter um yeah
16:35:47 dwd His driving is interesting enough without him trying to type, too.
16:36:03 stpeter it's difficult to schedule meetings the first few days after such long holidays...
16:36:19 dwd Yeah, I realise this is a little ambitious.
16:36:44 dwd Trouble is, with FOSDEM, there's things to keep an eye on.
16:36:54 stpeter indeed
16:37:17 Kev Current state is that we know we have a room, but don't know about the stand yet, but have decided on Fri/Mon?
16:37:34 stpeter righio
16:37:39 dwd That's about the shape.
16:37:48 dwd We've not actually considered talks at all.
16:37:53 Kev Do we know that we managed to *request* a stand?
16:38:09 stpeter however I need to follow up with the Cisco folks in Brussels about quite a few things, won't have time until tomorrow afternoon
16:38:27 dwd I don't know for certain that it went off. I know we wrote the proposal, though.
16:38:39 Kev Better than last year.
16:41:40 dwd Right, well this meeting's obviously not going to happen, unless I declare a quorum of one
16:41:54 dwd And that seems rather dictatorial.
16:42:02 stpeter :)
16:42:14 Kev Perhaps we should change the bylaws so that Council Chair and Executive Director can count insted of Board members.
16:42:23 Kev It might increase the chances of reaching quorum from time to time.
16:42:45 dwd I did wonder about making those positions ex-officio, but that doesn't help, I think.
16:44:38 Kev I don't think that it necessarily follows that it doesn't.
16:45:01 dwd Ex-officio members don't vote and don't count for quorum, I think.
16:45:09 Kev Typically, or in the bylaws?
16:45:39 Kev I don't remember ex-officio rules in our bylaws, particularly, and ex-officio doesn't necessarily imply less-than-normal membership elsewhere, I think.
16:45:40 dwd Plus if Exec Director and Council CHair were formally counted, and could vote, then they'd be voting members not selected directly by the members, which - I think - would be wrong.
16:46:04 stpeter agreed
16:46:05 Kev Well, Council Chair would be directly selected, ED admittedly wouldn't.
16:46:08 stpeter brb
16:46:19 Kev Naturally not if it changed mid-term.
16:46:41 Kev Well, ok, depends how you mean 'directly'.
16:46:49 dwd Kev, No, Council members are directly selected, but the Council chair is selected by the Council, so in principle that's indirect.
16:46:56 Kev Each Council member is directly selected and has the potential to become Chair.
16:47:07 Kev Right.
16:48:15 Kev How's the xmppverify project going, btw?
16:48:26 dwd I've not looked.
16:51:45 stpeter it's not going
16:52:11 dwd We've a list of fosdem@xmpp.org, correct?
16:52:13 stpeter I still need to post to the members@ list about the various teams and sigs
16:52:28 dwd I was just drafting something along those lines for the FOSDEM/Interop ones.
16:52:36 dwd Hence my query.
16:52:38 stpeter we have summit@
16:52:41 stpeter I can create fosdem@
16:52:46 stpeter for the fosdem team
16:52:47 stpeter if desired
16:52:48 dwd No, summit@ is fine.
16:53:02 stpeter http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo is shorter than it used to be :)
16:53:18 dwd I don't think they need a second list, and I'm sure that anyone generally interested in the summit will be interested in FOSDEM.
16:53:29 stpeter nods
16:54:51 Kev Oh, on the contrary, I'm interested in the summit but FOSDEM bores me silly :)
16:55:04 stpeter :)
16:55:06 Kev I'd just as soon have all three days somewhere else.
16:55:11 Kev Ideally Cardiff.
16:55:13 stpeter :)
16:55:14 Kev London at a push.
16:55:23 dwd Bridgend?
16:55:44 Kev Sure, we could do the XSF meal at the Ashoka.
16:55:52 stpeter that'd be fine with me
16:56:01 stpeter I'm not wedded to FOSDEM or Brussels
16:56:08 dwd stpeter, You realise the train journey almost exceeds the flight time?
16:56:09 Kev I think Bridgend generally lacks the culture of other places. Any other places.
16:56:11 stpeter it's just happened to be convenient in the past
16:56:35 Kev Cardiff's nice, London's find and is easy for everyone to get to.
16:56:40 Kev s/find/fine/
16:57:24 stpeter I think it would be fun to hold an XMPP meetup in Denver at the same time as http://www.greatamericanbeerfestival.com/ :)
16:57:44 stpeter or make it more general than just XMPP -- The Great American App Festival sounds like a catchy name...
16:58:51 dwd DO we call it the "XSF Summit", or the "XMPP Summit"?
16:59:05 Kev Traditionally, the XMPP Summit, I believe.
16:59:06 dwd Ah, "XMPP Summit".
16:59:07 stpeter XMPP Summit
17:01:18 dwd A few things to note about the upcoming XMPP Summit, happening at the same time as FOSDEM 2012. 1) The XSF has a formal "Work Team", open to any members, to lead the self-organization of our FOSDEM 2012 experience. Members should feel overwhelmingly encouraged to join, and help. Mailing list is at summit@xmpp.org (this list also covers other Summit-ty things). 2) The XSF has also formed a formal "Special Interest Group", open to all, to discuss Interop testing at the XMPP Summit, and in particular the Friday before FOSDEM 2012. Mailing list is at interop@xmpp.org 3) Finally, the XSF has a dev room at FOSDEM 2012, and has several slots available for interesting XMPP-related talks. In general, these talks are best used to target audiences wider than the core XMPP community. Talks are welcome from all. Thanks, Dave. (As XSF Chair)
17:01:33 dwd Sending to both members@ and standards@, comments?
17:02:23 Kev Not really.
17:04:04 stpeter fire away
17:05:02 dwd Added summit@ and interop@, for no good reason.
17:05:21 dwd Well, makes people aware if they've already joined the lists and forgotten about them.
17:05:25 stpeter nods
17:05:26 stpeter thanks
17:05:35 Kev Unless someone's unsubbed me, I'm on both lists.
17:05:51 dwd You'll soon find out.
17:06:00 Kev Although I only see that mail on members. I wonder if gmail is doing odd squashing.
17:06:23 dwd It'd be impressive, since they've different subject lines, but they do have the same message id.
17:06:39 Kev from: Dave Cridland dave@cridland.net reply-to: XSF Members <members@xmpp.org> to: XSF Members <members@xmpp.org>, XMPP Standards <standards@xmpp.org>, XMPP Summit <summit@xmpp.org>, XMPP Interop <interop@xmpp.org> date: Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 5:03 PM subject: [Members] XMPP Summit and FOSDEM 2012
17:06:53 Kev Says gmail.
17:06:57 dwd Well, I'm *pretty* sure you're on standards@, so...
17:07:26 Kev I have been in the past, at least.
17:08:06 stpeter dwd: are there minutes for the Board meeting at which we decided to close the CommTeam and TechReview Team?
17:09:04 dwd stpeter, Think so.
17:09:26 dwd Ah, yes, but only went to Board list.
17:09:39 stpeter ah
17:09:49 Kev Using the members list for Board business is going well, then.
17:10:07 stpeter :P
17:16:53 dwd Our esteemed chair also forwarded them using the wrong account, which didn't help much either.
17:17:06 stpeter heh
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17:18:18 Florian has joined
17:18:26 stpeter hi Florian!
17:18:41 Florian hi
17:18:43 dwd Florian, Hiya. Did you book dinner, BTW?
17:18:47 Florian so sorry I'm late
17:18:51 Florian traffic jam on the ring
17:18:58 Florian eh, not yet. I can go there tomorrow
17:19:02 Florian same place?
17:19:09 Florian with coach as usual?
17:19:19 dwd I think the same place, with a message bus.
17:19:49 dwd It's a good restaurant, and a good price, as I recall.
17:19:57 Kev Is this the same as two years ago?
17:20:01 Florian yes
17:20:02 dwd Yes.
17:20:10 Kev Vaguely remember it being sensible at teh time.
17:20:19 dwd Kev, I know, they don't do pizza, but even so it's quite good.
17:20:21 Florian I'll possibly change the menu a bit like I did last year
17:20:34 Florian but I recall dwd .. you really liked one of the options?
17:20:56 dwd Florian, There was something with bacon, yes.
17:21:10 dwd Florian, And carpaccio.
17:21:38 Florian right, I'll get together with them tomorrow
17:21:44 Florian should I also try to get the Hotel?
17:21:52 dwd Florian, But I'm assuming we're not going to get sponsorship from Nokia this time?
17:21:53 Florian either the Best Western or the Meridien?
17:22:05 Florian no, so it might be that people will need to pay a bit
17:22:10 dwd Florian, Which was last year's? Meridien?
17:22:16 Florian I mean, normally the full menu is €26
17:22:20 Florian + drinks
17:22:25 Florian which is very reasonable
17:22:29 Florian last year, Meridien
17:22:44 dwd stpeter, Which hotel did you guys stay in?
17:22:52 stpeter not a good one
17:22:58 stpeter got booked into the wrong one
17:22:59 dwd stpeter, Ah, OK.
17:23:10 dwd stpeter, I thought it was a Cisco rate thing.
17:23:15 Florian right
17:23:22 stpeter it was quite a walk from the train station
17:23:24 Florian but I recall our rate was quite good in the Meridien (5*)
17:23:29 stpeter not *that* far
17:23:29 dwd Florian, Meridien was good, yes.
17:23:35 stpeter but had no wifi, right?
17:23:39 Florian the Best Western (4*) was good as well
17:23:59 dwd Florian, Which was that? The modern one near the chocolate shop?
17:24:12 Florian it was the one where we had the summit in the basement
17:24:16 Florian -2 underground
17:24:20 dwd Florian, Oh, yes.
17:24:25 dwd Florian, I didn't stay there.
17:24:32 dwd (No Bacon!!!)
17:24:34 Florian bit more affordable probably
17:24:44 Florian but I'll get the rates tomorrow
17:24:46 dwd Florian, See what we can get.
17:24:55 Florian I'll look for 10 rooms
17:25:08 dwd Florian, Isode is sending an alarming number this year.
17:25:27 Florian 10 double rooms should be alright?
17:25:33 dwd Florian, So there's, erm, potentially 5 rooms just for us.
17:25:37 Florian ok
17:25:41 Florian I'll go for 12 then
17:25:46 Florian but those are single rooms?
17:25:52 Kev 5 for Isode, 12 for Florian, anyone else going?
17:25:57 Florian haha :D
17:26:10 dwd FLorian's entourage takes a lot of room, you know.
17:26:23 Kev Naturally.
17:26:25 Florian it's a big entourage ;)
17:26:34 Florian and I take care of my peeps :)
17:26:36 dwd Kev, It's the groupies I feel sorry for.
17:27:04 Florian right ... so those are action items for me tomorrow
17:27:12 Florian anything else I missed? T-Shirts?
17:27:14 dwd Florian, But yes, shop around. I don't feel any of us *need* 5 star.
17:27:18 Florian Realtime Lounge
17:27:23 dwd Yeah, we need to consider t-shirts.
17:27:33 dwd Florian, And we don't know anything on the stand front.
17:27:43 dwd But I do have a pico-projector. Yay!
17:28:03 Florian I'll have an N9 by that time :)
17:28:39 dwd Florian, Oh? I did have an offer for getting them cheap. But I've decided it's not worth it - nicer to have maintained stuff.
17:28:58 Florian interesting, how cheap? :)
17:29:06 dwd Florian, To you...
17:29:16 dwd Florian, Actually I can't remember.
17:29:41 dwd Florian, But I figured it was cheaper to get a Lumia and reflash it.
17:29:47 Florian well, I found them for £349 ... but then decided to bug people
17:29:47 dwd Or at least simpler.
17:30:05 Florian hehe ... not the same hardware though
17:30:06 Florian anyways ...
17:30:20 Florian what else is there to do for FOSDEM?
17:30:25 dwd So, did you get anywhere on a dev challenge?
17:30:28 Florian are the Cisco rooms booked?
17:30:42 dwd Florian, stpeter said earlier he had some follow-up there.
17:30:51 Florian dev challenge: haven't thought about it yet ...
17:30:54 Florian will look for sponsors
17:31:32 dwd Florian, Google, Samsung... Maybe ASUS/Acer?
17:31:49 dwd Florian, Only Google would seem to have much contact with XMPP.
17:32:06 Kev Find someone who'll sponsor an Android phone, and award it to the person doing the best Android UI for Swift :D
17:32:53 Florian :)
17:33:34 Florian I'll sjop around
17:33:43 Florian else, would the XSF be able to award a prize?
17:33:58 Florian that way we could also have a wider dev challenge goal
17:34:04 dwd Florian, We'd need to find a sponsor to pay for it, still.
17:34:14 Kev Why?
17:34:31 Kev I thought the question was whether the XSF could buy something out of funds.
17:34:40 Florian right
17:34:46 Kev Not that the XSF has all that much money in the bank, I think.
17:34:58 Florian and not that I'd want that
17:35:17 stpeter ~$10k
17:35:18 Florian but it's an option I'd like to know about
17:35:41 dwd Well, to be honest, I don't see why we-XSF would want to do it.
17:36:52 Florian well, if we want to motivate people to write XMPP code ...
17:37:51 dwd Florian, The XSF want to motivate people to write detailed specifications for needed protocols, though, surely? But a XEP-writing challenge sounds a little uninteresting.
17:38:22 Florian doesn't the XSF also want to promote XMPP adoption though?
17:38:31 dwd Florian, Yes, true enough.
17:39:07 Florian again, I don't really want to have the XSF pay for a prize
17:39:08 Florian BUT
17:39:22 Florian if it's that or no dev challenge ... I'd consider it
17:39:23 dwd I think it's something that a sponsor would pay for, in any case.
17:40:21 Florian ok, I'll go and look :)
17:40:22 Kev I think it's something that seems nice in principle but actually doesn't get us much.
17:40:31 Florian if anyone has any contacts at Apple, Google ...
17:40:35 Florian drop me a line :D
17:40:57 Florian Kev: true ... but question is ... was this because it was focused on Mobile?
17:41:00 Florian or a specific area?
17:41:06 Kev It's bcause it's not really practical.
17:41:16 Kev "With two weeks' notice, write something cool and novel!".
17:41:27 Kev Or
17:41:34 Kev "Show us something cool you've already done"
17:42:19 Kev Now, if we could give 12 months notice and say "Have the biggest contribution towards the open testing framework", that might be something.
17:42:47 Florian well, we can do that as well
17:43:02 Florian and then have the official "Launch" at the Summit
17:43:03 Kev But we've got the close source vs. open source, cool vs. useful, etc. etc. etc. stuff going on.
17:43:16 Kev It's all just a bit messy.
17:43:49 Kev So if someone donates a phone to us, great, it's a bit cool and we can give it to someone for some arbitrary reason.
17:44:04 Kev But I don't think it provides significant value to the XSF, or to the event.
17:45:00 Kev (It probably does to the individual winning the device)
17:45:19 Florian hmm, ok
17:45:47 Kev Now, mind.
17:45:47 dwd It'd be more fun if it did run for a year, and we showed off the exciting projects at the end, instead of only showing them in a small room in front of the Converted.
17:46:00 Kev We could do an award for "Greatest contribution to XMPP" or something.
17:46:06 dwd I wondered about that.
17:46:07 dwd But:
17:46:09 Kev Which is only slightly pointless as it'd be Peter each and every bloody year.
17:46:19 Florian heh
17:46:26 Florian yeah
17:46:26 dwd Right. Failing that, you win.
17:46:42 dwd It becomes a dangerous thing of back-slapping.
17:46:53 Kev It'll be ED, Council or Board, at least.
17:46:58 Kev Probably.
17:47:05 dwd Maybe "Best newcomer"?
17:47:07 Kev Yes.
17:47:12 Kev (Yes to previous backslapping)
17:47:21 dwd slaps Kev's back.
17:47:33 Kev I was thinking about something like like, although I've not yet articulated the idea sufficiently.
17:47:42 Kev I'd like "Best new XMPP project", but that's not right.
17:48:11 Kev (Because mostly we'd rather have stable projects than lots of two-month projects existing and falling off)
17:48:16 Kev (Royal we)
17:48:37 dwd You're CHair of the Council, ROyal we is appropriate, yes.
17:49:36 Kev Then there's "XMPP Client of the year" or "XMPP Server of the year", neither of which are viable.
17:49:58 dwd That'd be just a tad contentious.
17:50:04 Kev Right. Not viable.
17:50:12 Kev Swift's the best client, anyway.
17:50:20 Kev Swift's probably the best server, too, if it means I get goodies.
17:50:29 Florian :D
17:50:30 Kev Oh, and Swiften's the best library.
17:50:39 Kev etc.
17:50:40 dwd Best logo?
17:50:51 Kev Ah, yes, Psi should win something :)
17:50:56 dwd :-P
17:51:45 Kev So, my upshot is that if Florian can easily find someone to donate something cool, then yay, we can find a way to donate it to someone and raise a small amount of noise.
17:52:04 Florian right
17:52:04 Kev That the overall XSF gain isn't significant, though, so not to put too much effort into it.
17:52:15 dwd So anyway, this sounds like we're looking at, if anything, a year-long dev challenge, or at best a "Come to FOSDEM and Show Your Thang™ at the Realtime Lounge™ to win a prize!!!".
17:52:25 Kev More interesting would be finding someone willing to sponsor prizes for progress to the validator, or similar XSF-interesting projects.
17:52:47 Florian dwd: a lot of TM
17:52:57 Kev In fact, I think Board could take on such a challenge with good reason, if they felt there was a chance of progress.
17:53:28 dwd I'm somewhat swayed that encouraging people to show cool things at the stand is a worthy objective, but I'm not sure it's worth the XSF splashing out for.
17:53:47 Kev Cool Stuff At The Stand™ is interesting, I'll grant.
17:54:10 dwd Mostly because it achieves the objective of ensnaring developer mindshare.
17:54:18 Kev And provides an unscientific but satisfying judging criterion.
17:54:26 dwd Right.
17:54:27 Kev (Perceived popularity from passers-by)
17:55:03 Kev Although then we have the problem of everyone who's ever written an XMPP client thinking their client is new and interesting and much better than everyone else's so it deserves airtime on the stand.
17:55:26 Kev And I don't think demoing a client that's slightly more usable than other clients, in slightly different ways, is exactly the point of a realytimeyloungey.
17:55:50 dwd Agreed, but too much stuff to show would be a problem I'd enjoy solving.
17:55:57 Kev (I'm not even proposing we demo Swift at the stand)
17:56:08 dwd RIght, I need to wander off for a bit, to hav efood with the family.
17:56:12 Kev (Well, not as a boring XMPP client, there *are* fun applications of it...)
17:56:18 Kev Enjoy.
17:56:44 Kev See, four people attending the Board meeting, that's good going out of a Board of five people.
17:56:58 Kev A slight shame that only 2 of the attendees were Board...
17:58:02 stpeter :P
17:58:26 stpeter notes that he's reviewing https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sieve-include/ and hasn't been paying close attention
17:59:02 Kev More attention than 3/5 of Board.
18:01:22 Florian so what needs to be done for the realtime lounge?
18:01:33 Florian are we waiting for a reply from FOSDEM?
18:01:49 Kev I don't know, I'm aware it's planned, but not what.
18:01:51 Kev I think so, yes.
18:02:46 Florian ok
18:03:02 Florian btw, Kev: when is Swift getting history?
18:03:40 Kev Not 2.0, sadly.
18:04:00 Florian damn :(
18:04:08 Florian it's the thing that I miss most in it
18:04:22 Kev Understood.
18:08:20 stpeter BTW, what are all the Isode folks interested in working on / discussing in Brussels? any interop testing on offer?
18:08:45 Kev You'd need to speak to our VP of XMPP about that!
18:09:18 Kev I would have thought that we'd participate in any interop testing that was happening, at least.
18:10:08 stpeter well, as you know, interop testing requires some organizational efforts :)
18:10:15 stpeter BOSH testing was semi-productive last time
18:11:09 Florian it was
18:33:54 dwd Il Vice-Presidente would be interested in doing interop on BOSH again.
18:35:00 dwd And in general terms, whatever we can interop test, we're willing to be involved in - I can run up CAs and whatever as required, too.
18:43:29 ralphm has joined
18:43:43 ralphm waves
18:44:18 ralphm Florian:I'm not sure why we haven't heard back from FOSDEM, but I checked and haven't gotten a reply
18:44:40 ralphm Also, I think we messed up with sending out a call for participation for the devroom
18:44:57 ralphm as in, not having done that
18:52:34 stpeter hey ralphm
19:04:25 stpeter time for lunch, bbiaf
19:35:05 Florian has left
19:50:08 kevin has joined
19:57:28 Neustradamus It will be possible to choice a license for the XMPP logo ? because MIT is for software...
19:59:00 stpeter we use MIT for documents, why not images?
19:59:19 ralphm Neustradamus: please actually read the license stpeter has pointed to in the emails.
19:59:22 ralphm http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-ipr-policy/#legal
20:00:06 Neustradamus already done but it is not very clear :/
20:00:14 ralphm as stpeter has mentioned, it was modified to not be about code
20:01:33 Neustradamus ok.
20:01:38 stpeter I don't have time to look at it today, but I will do so again tomorrow
20:01:48 ralphm it does mention 'Specification'
20:01:58 ralphm so maybe we could work on that
20:02:21 ralphm other than that, what you can do with it seems really clear
20:02:52 stpeter as you might recall, we once used a Creative Commons license but that conflicted with the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which is why we moved to MIT
20:03:13 Neustradamus ok
20:04:32 Neustradamus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Debian-OpenLogo.svg I see.
20:06:43 Neustradamus We can see for add a part about the logo http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-ipr-policy/#legal ;)
20:07:08 stpeter Neustradamus: interesting about the Debian logo
20:07:18 stpeter Neustradamus: that might work
20:07:34 stpeter Neustradamus: as I said, I won't have time to really think about this until tomorrow
20:08:04 Neustradamus yes no problem ;)
20:09:04 Neustradamus can you see tomorrow for the xmpp.org theme in the same time ?
20:11:42 Neustradamus about the FOSDEM, have you seen with Goffi ( Salut à Toi project) ?
20:11:43 stpeter yes, I will look at this stuff tomorrow or Friday
20:13:15 ralphm stpeter: just provide the postscript for the logo and license that with MIT. Done. :-)
20:14:45 stpeter heh nice :)
20:15:51 Neustradamus http://www.debian.org/logos/ there is a nice page, good example for XSF maybe ;)
20:17:42 ralphm so it appears Debian has its own issues, w.r.t. trademarks
20:17:55 stpeter nods to ralphm
20:18:54 Neustradamus yes.
20:19:05 ralphm I don't think we could or want to trademark 'XMPP', and the license for the swirl seems to be a regular MIT license
20:19:26 Neustradamus about the Jabber logo, how is it ?
20:19:33 ralphm falling under 'and associated documentation files'
20:20:17 ralphm Neustradamus: I believe the Jabber logo is also designed for the XSF
20:20:24 ralphm then Jabber Software Foundation
20:20:40 Kev "Jabber" Is trademarked, though.
20:20:49 ralphm and the same applies, except that 'Jabber' does a have trademark
20:20:57 ralphm currently owned by Cisco
20:21:03 ralphm and licensed through the XSF
20:21:18 Neustradamus yes but the Jabber Software Foundation is now XMPP Standards Foundation, and Jabber Inc. is now a part of Cisco.
20:21:37 ralphm Neustradamus: you can use the Logo freely
20:22:02 ralphm Neustradamus: for anything with 'Jabber' in it, formally you'd need a license.
20:22:51 ralphm http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/jabber-trademark/
20:26:05 Neustradamus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jabber_logo_simple.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jabber-bulb.svg (http://www.jabber.org/images/jsf-logo.vectorized.eps) http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/jabber-trademark/ (logo or image is missing :D)
20:28:39 ralphm heh vectorized. I create that one at some point
20:28:49 ralphm by tracing a large png
20:45:15 stpeter well, there is fair use of various jabber stuff, see the trademark licensing policy
20:45:45 ralphm stpeter: sure, that's why I linked to it
20:45:59 ralphm those provisions are also an implicit license
20:46:09 Kev Explicit, in fact :p
20:46:17 ralphm so in all cases, a license is required
20:46:25 ralphm even though it is automatic or whatever
20:47:59 stpeter IPR stuff makes my head hurt
20:48:09 stpeter not as bad as internationalization stuff, though
20:48:40 stpeter moves on to reviewing https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6lowpan-nd/
20:50:37 ralphm good move
20:52:09 stpeter necessary move, anyway
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21:21:40 dwd catches up.
21:21:58 dwd ralphm, So basically FOSDEM are running behind a bit on the stands, we think?
21:22:03 ralphm dwd: yes
21:22:32 ralphm dwd: it is also stated on their website that they are still in review
21:23:02 dwd ralphm, Yeah, but it also states they'll be sending out acceptance on the 22nd of December, so...
21:23:51 ralphm I know
21:29:44 ralphm yaloki: ralphm: no, they're done but we need to announce them
21:29:49 ralphm dwd: so there
21:30:35 ralphm yaloki: ralphm: let's say "this week" yaloki: ralphm: but yes, you have your stand
21:30:46 dwd \o/
21:30:54 dwd ralphm, Tell him thanks.
21:31:04 ralphm does 'awesome' cover that?
21:32:01 dwd ralphm, Kinda. Tell him an official thanks from the XSF, and that we appreciate all the hard work. (Well as official as his "you have your stand" is).
21:34:30 ralphm 'np yw'
21:34:31 ralphm hehe
21:41:50 Neustradamus Note : Update of the year on XEPs... (2011 becomes 2012).
22:07:02 ralphm It is likely that the XEPs haven't changed (yet) this year
22:07:10 ralphm also, the notice is not actually required
22:08:44 dwd Not requiredm but it is advisable.
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