XSF Discussion - 2012-01-11

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  9. Marc

    hi i need help

  10. Marc


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  30. goffi


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  32. Neustradamus

    goffi would like to know if you have news about this request ? http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Demos and on ML.

  33. goffi

    Neustradamus: I have just posted an email about this

  34. goffi

    on summit@

  35. ralphm

    unless we suddenly have too many applications, in general you're in

  36. ralphm

    dwd and I will look into what we have, later today

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  42. Florian

    Board meeting in 15mins

  43. stpeter


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  45. stpeter

    dented and tweeted

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  48. dwd

    Florian, You here (again) now?

  49. dwd

    (He said he'd lost his Virgin connection. I did *not* many any witty response whatsoever.)

  50. stpeter

    Florian is on a mobile device but might not be able to join this room using it

  51. dwd

    Well, I guess it's time.

  52. dwd

    I'm not going to look at quorum as such unless something actually comes up that we need to vote on, but it's awkward that Florian's not here, because I was going to ask him to summarize a few things.

  53. stpeter


  54. stpeter

    http://speeqe.com/room/xsf@muc.xmpp.org/ doesn't work

  55. stpeter

    I wonder if that's because speeqe can't handle non-standard s2s ports

  56. stpeter

    we could paste MUC messages into a one-to-one chat -- I had to do that recently with Chris

  57. dwd

    Could be.

  58. dwd

    I can't actually figure out which resource he's on, otherwise I'd do so.

  59. stpeter

    I'm chatting with him in another window

  60. Kev

    He can use the web logs, too.

  61. Kev

    Now that Matt fixed them.

  62. dwd


  63. dwd

    So I think these are up to date: http://xmpp.org/participate/the-xmpp-summit/xmpp-summit-11/

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  65. stpeter

    hi Chris

  66. dwd


  67. cchris434

    sorry about that

  68. Florian has left

  69. dwd

    cchris434, That's fine, I'm not treating this as a proper meeting anyway, as such.

  70. cchris434


  71. stpeter pings Ashley

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  73. Ashley Roach


  74. dwd makes edit to FOSDEM_2012, noting that SImon has two talks instead of just the one he should have.

  75. dwd

    OK, so we have 8 talks, and 8 hours to do them in.

  76. stpeter

    dwd: Simon just pinged the W3C Federated Social Web discussion list

  77. dwd

    I kept the "Ask The Experts" sessions out of it, and equally, the first talk there is going to be a short one welcoming people to the room, while Remko, Peter, and Kev setup for the talk I've put them in for.

  78. stpeter

    I think some of those folks will be interested in giving talks -- we can have a block of time for FSW topics

  79. dwd

    stpeter, Right, but my point is we're not actually looking too bad for talks, depending on the length.

  80. Kev

    I'm happy to give an additional talk if anyone can think of anything I know something about that's interesting. I'm not sure there is much.

  81. dwd

    Kev, Names of characters on Star Wars MMORPGs?

  82. Kev

    I've yet to meet Lord Zash, but I'm sure she's a lovely person.

  83. stpeter

    BTW I am keeping Florian informed about the messages here (note to self: write bot that relays a MUC room over one-to-one chat)

  84. stpeter

    Florian says: [09:42:23] <Florian> We need 8 more talks [09:42:32] <Florian> The Jitsi guys might hold one or two

  85. dwd

    Meanwhile, we apparently have 12 people for the dinner, which is very low.

  86. stpeter

    [09:43:18] <Florian> About Jingle or other stuff

  87. dwd

    That's usually a good indicator of attendance, so I'm a little concerned.

  88. dwd

    stpeter, It depends on the talks' length. If we're assuming that each talk is a half-hour slot, then yes, there's 16 talks we need. I suspect, though, that different talks are different lengths, and we'll need to get a handle on that.

  89. Kev

    I've just not filled out the form yet.

  90. Kev

    dwd: I think we should think very carefully before assigning more than 30mins to any talk other than 101.

  91. stpeter

    Kev: agreed

  92. stpeter

    short talks are more engaging

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  94. stpeter

    [09:45:44] <Florian> Re dinner people: this is after 2 days of menu submissions [09:45:59] <Florian> So it's not that bad

  95. dwd

    There's usually one or two talks that are worth extending. Simon Tennant was going to talk about XMPP/Web, as with his recent post - I've a feeling that could easily cause a floor debate.

  96. stpeter

    floor debate would be excellent

  97. dwd

    Right. I think we should assume this will happen, and plan for it, in this case.

  98. stpeter

    [09:47:09] <Florian> Hotel booking link will be live tomorrow. Talked to them this afternoon

  99. Kev

    Simon's talk may be a good one to seriously consider.

  100. Kev

    But that's still only two at more than 30mins.

  101. dwd

    Florian, ANd yes, I know it's only two days, but still, I was hoping to see a little more enthusiasm.

  102. stpeter

    [09:48:08] <Florian> Yeah, floor debates would be cool

  103. Kev

    I shudder even thinking about an hour-long talk on "Hey, I wrote an XMPP client" like we've had in previous years.

  104. stpeter


  105. stpeter

    dwd: we just keep poking people, and probably need to establish deadlines of sorts for talks, dinner, etc.

  106. dwd thinks that SImon's talk and Dodo's talk have been swapped, possibly. Will check.

  107. dwd

    stpeter, Yes, true. That said, an alarming number of people I've personally poked have said they're not coming, or are unlikely to come at this stage.

  108. Kev

    To the summit or the meal?

  109. dwd

    Kev, To the whole thing.

  110. stpeter

    well, FOSDEM is always a bit difficult because it happens so soon after the winter holidays -- it's difficult to get prepared so quickly after that, and before that people are focused on other things

  111. Kev

    That's a shame.

  112. dwd

    Right. But still, we can deal with most of this.

  113. dwd

    What we are very short on, currently, is demos.

  114. stpeter

    [09:52:26] <Florian> Same issue here as dwd. A lot of no's or not sure

  115. dwd

    SO far, from memory, buddycloud, openov.nl, and Salut à toi are doing demos. I'm still trying to get something interesting together.

  116. dwd

    Anyone know of any more?

  117. dwd

    Oh, there's some possibility of doing Jingle calls between us an the Jitsi people, I think.

  118. Astro

    just a little side question: will there be video recordings of the buddycloud talk?

  119. dwd

    Astro, Not unless somebody videos them.

  120. stpeter


  121. stpeter

    FOSDEM doesn't provide such services :)

  122. Astro

    ok, thanks

  123. Kev

    dwd: I *suppose* we could do some sort of "lots of platforms talking together" (with phones, tablets, whathaveyous all joined into a MUC), but it's clutching at straws.

  124. stpeter

    dwd: I pinged some smartgrid folks about an XMPP demo

  125. dwd

    Kev, I suppose it's a nice demo of the myriad of platforms XMPP runs on, yes.

  126. dwd

    Florian says: [16:56:36] Florian Jensen: Yes, jitsi [16:56:58] Florian Jensen: They're up for talks and demod

  127. stpeter

    I suppose we could have demos of things we know use XMPP even if the developers aren't there -- drop.io and such

  128. stpeter

    Google Hangouts :)

  129. stpeter

    and all that

  130. stpeter

    [09:58:55] <Florian> Jitsi: would be cool to have a video call going from the RTL to the Jitsi stand

  131. dwd

    We also need to figure out what to populate the stand with - by which I mean, projectors, beanbags, or whatever the heck else we fancy.

  132. dwd

    Florian, Yes, I agree. I think it's a neat demonstration of the reality of XMPP as a Skype competitor.

  133. Kev


  134. Kev


  135. dwd

    stpeter, I was meaning to ask - can Cisco lend us projectors and things, for FOSDEM?

  136. stpeter

    dwd: no idea, but I can find out

  137. dwd

    stpeter, Otherwise we can probably hire them easily enough, but I thought Cisco might have that kind of kit around.

  138. stpeter

    dwd: I'll be at the Cisco office in Diegem on Thursday afternoon (I have an IESG telechat starting at 16:30 local time, I believe), so I can pick up equipment if needed and possible

  139. stpeter

    [10:01:32] <Florian> So i think demoes is not really a problem

  140. stpeter

    [10:01:52] <Florian> It's more the beanbags

  141. stpeter

    I don't think the Cisco offices have beanbags on offer ;-)

  142. stpeter

    [10:02:28] <Florian> Yes, Cisco projectors would be a great help

  143. stpeter

    I'll see what I can do for projectors

  144. stpeter

    this is for the RTL lounge?

  145. dwd


  146. stpeter

    would we also need a screen>

  147. dwd

    And yes, I'm not aware of Cisco beanbags.

  148. stpeter

    i.e., on what will we project?

  149. dwd

    Screens would be useful. If needs be we can project onto walls - I'd prefer that if we can.

  150. stpeter


  151. stpeter

    well, we could borrow this stuff on Friday and return it Monday, so I wouldn't need to shlepp it all on Thursday

  152. stpeter

    I'll follow up with the Cisco folks in Diegem about it

  153. dwd


  154. dwd

    ANd if they happen to have Cisco iBeanbags, that'd be great too.

  155. stpeter


  156. stpeter

    I've never seen a beanbag in a Cisco office -- it's not some hip startup ;-)

  157. dwd

    We should probably look about and see if such things could be hired.

  158. dwd

    Unless there are any hip startups attending who could lend us their beanbags.

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  160. stpeter

    [10:08:16] <Florian> I might try BetaCowork [10:08:49] <Florian> They're an incubator

  161. stpeter

    [10:09:03] <Florian> They have such things

  162. dwd

    OK. And I guess there must be places in Brussels that deal with trade shows wanting odd things, etc.

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  164. Florian


  165. Florian

    so ... Virgin Media is back for a bit

  166. dwd

    Florian, It lives!

  167. stpeter

    heh nice

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  170. Florian

    so yeah, BetaCoWork ... don't know anyone there really

  171. Florian

    but I know 2 members

  172. stpeter can stop his personal relay service

  173. Florian

    and we might be able to get help from them with beanbags

  174. Florian

    stpeter: thanks for that :)

  175. stpeter loads http://code.matthewwild.co.uk/riddim/ for later investigation of bot experimentation

  176. Florian

    I think the urgent thing now is ...

  177. Florian

    get a list of talks compiled

  178. Florian

    and put up on the xmpp.org page

  179. Florian

    so that we can also submit them to FOSDEM

  180. stpeter


  181. stpeter


  182. stpeter


  183. Florian

    I think the deadline for talks is the 15th

  184. stpeter


  185. Florian

    and we need to tell them that we only want the RTL, not RTL + Stand

  186. stpeter

    so we need to put out a clear call for talks with deadline

  187. Florian


  188. stpeter

    I can do that on jdev/standards/summit

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  190. Florian


  191. dwd

    Florian, There was some discussion with Ralph about that last night.

  192. Florian


  193. dwd

    stpeter, Please.

  194. dwd

    Florian, We seem to have both, but they'll cancel the stand if the RTL comes together, or something.

  195. Florian

    ah right, that sounds good

  196. Florian

    well, let's focus on the RTL

  197. Florian

    worst case, we take the work from the RTL to the stand

  198. dwd

    Florian, I wasn't clear on the details, Ralph was going to ask them in detail later today.

  199. Florian

    ah, great

  200. Florian

    well, as long as they were made aware of the situation

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  202. Florian

    anything else?

  203. dwd

    No, I don't think so.

  204. dwd

    Is there anything else from anyone else?

  205. Ashley Roach

    Not from me

  206. stpeter

    I just pinged the FSW list again

  207. dwd

    We'll call it a meeting, then.

  208. stpeter

    that is public-xg-federatedsocialweb@w3.org

  209. Ashley Roach


  210. Florian


  211. stpeter

    it's a public list in case you'd like to join

  212. Florian

    thanks all!

  213. Florian

    oh ... one last thing ...

  214. dwd

    Florian, Yes, Columbo?

  215. Florian

    if you know anyone else who has some money lying around ... dinner sponsorship is always appreciated

  216. Florian

    I'm thinking 50 Cent: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2085191/50-Cent-Floyd-Mayweather-photos-Rapper-shows-loose-change.html

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  218. dwd

    Florian, Wow. Subtle guy.

  219. stpeter

    I sent an email about devroom talks

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  221. stpeter

    I'm going to open posting to summit@xmpp.org for a few days so that non-members can post

  222. dwd

    OK, sounds like a good idea.

  223. stpeter

    i.e., moderator can approve

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  225. stpeter

    shall we have another chat next week to maintain momentum?

  226. stpeter

    I can add it to the calendar

  227. dwd


  228. stpeter

    that will immediately follow the next XMPP Council meeting

  229. dwd

    Oh, on the "ask the experts" thing we usually do - I was wondering if we have shorter, more focussed versions in between the talks, to allow for speaker transition (given that the ask the experts sessions have no slides or laptops).

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  231. stpeter


  232. stpeter

    that might work

  233. dwd

    So we'd have talk, followed by ask the experts on security, followed by talk, followed by a-t-e on pubsub, or something.

  234. dwd

    PubSubHubbub! I'm not sure we allow *that* sort of thing...

  235. stpeter


  236. Zash

    Not sure if want.

  237. stpeter

    I think it could be a useful discussion -- compare and contrast

  238. stpeter

    and it might lead to some lively interactions :)

  239. Zash

    über basics of pubsub + dialback :P

  240. Kev

    We could have some SIMPLE folks come in and present...

  241. stpeter

    Kev: now that's beyond the pale!

  242. dwd

    Kev, I'll ask Florian about obtaining rotten tomatos.

  243. Kev

    Or Y! Messenger, perhaps.

  244. Kev

    A certain presentation from a few years ago is brought to mind, where the presenter took it as an opportunity to bash the XSF and explain that he was smarter than everyone there.

  245. Kev

    ...and then I realise Peter might have been the only other one (here) there.

  246. dwd

    Yeah, I'm just a noob.

  247. stpeter

    I don't recall that presenter

  248. Kev

    No Doubt - Just a noob.

  249. Kev

    stpeter: Virtual avatars.

  250. stpeter

    ah yes

  251. stpeter

    although I don't remember much bashing -- perhaps I'm thick-skinned or I just have a bad memory

  252. Kev

    Maybe I misremember. I was young(er) and foolish(er) back then :)

  253. stpeter


  254. Florian

    well, if we can get someone from Yahoo or Microsoft there

  255. Florian

    it would be great to have a panel :)

  256. dwd

    MSFT arem after all, users of XMPP now.

  257. Florian


  258. dwd

    I actually dropped Bernard Aboba a mail suggesting they came.

  259. stpeter


  260. dwd

    Haven't heard anything, yet.

  261. Zash

    Hm, what about Facebook?

  262. dwd

    I have no contacts there.

  263. Florian

    yeah, if any of the big guys could send someone

  264. Florian

    they can bring dinner sponsorship :)

  265. dwd

    I did think about trying to contact the Valve/Steam guys.

  266. dwd

    I've no contacts there, either, but they're one of the last big IM systems without XMPP access, I think.

  267. dwd

    I mean, relevant ones. :-)

  268. Kev

    I saw a review of Evolve on RPS today, and noticed one of the commenters posting "They'd better be using XMPP" or such.

  269. dwd


  270. Neustradamus

    I can see for facebook, I can join XMPP developer guys of Facebook.

  271. Neustradamus

    you have a message ?

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  273. Neustradamus

    stpeter: can you send me the xmpp.org theme ?

  274. stpeter

    it's the Carrington Theme

  275. stpeter

    you want the specific PHP files currently on the file system?

  276. Neustradamus

    yes with modifications

  277. Neustradamus

    I would like the theme folder.

  278. stpeter wonders if we should try Carrington Mobile

  279. stpeter

    Neustradamus: tarfile OK?

  280. Neustradamus


  281. stpeter


  282. stpeter


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  285. Kevin

    Is possible to install windows 3.1 or 6.3 on Nokia mobiles.Symbian Os?

  286. Zash


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  289. Neustradamus

    stpeter: thx

  290. stpeter

    Neustradamus: sure thing, sorry about the delay

  291. Neustradamus

    stpeter: no problem !

  292. Neustradamus

    about redirections, have you seen ?

  293. dwd has done his XSF [re]application.

  294. dwd


  295. dwd is quite proud.

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  297. stpeter

    Neustradamus: the www stuff?

  298. Neustradamus


  299. Zash

    dwd :D

  300. Neustradamus

    dwd: beautiful !

  301. stpeter

    Neustradamus: I just fixed a few instances of that in redirects.conf

  302. stpeter

    Neustradamus: maybe that solves the problem

  303. Kev

    We really need to sort out our redirects at some point to be less broken.

  304. stpeter

    Kev: indeed

  305. Kev

    I still haven't worked out how Cacti got broken without the redirects being changed.

  306. Neustradamus

    you must patch it all proposals ? http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/

  307. Neustradamus

    stpeter: http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/bind.html

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  309. Neustradamus

    same for XEP date : "© 1999 - 2011 XMPP Standards Foundation. SEE LEGAL NOTICES." +1 year

  310. stpeter

    Neustradamus: I changed the copyright date in the templates, but I haven't regenerated all the files because some of them are "interim" versions...

  311. Neustradamus


  312. stpeter

    but yeah I see that the old redirects to jabber.org are broken -- something else to fix :)

  313. stpeter

    time for lunch, bbiab

  314. Neustradamus

    http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XSF_website_gap_analysis_notes ;)

  315. Neustradamus

    http://tracker.xmpp.org/ problem !

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