XSF Discussion - 2012-04-20

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15:12:18 Florian afternoon all
15:12:21 Florian Board meeting in 20?
15:32:13 Florian board meeting time?
15:33:27 Florian dwd bear?
15:34:17 dwd Afternoon.
15:34:28 dwd Yes, meeting time.
15:34:59 dwd Florian, I think this may be the first meeting we've had across three continents.
15:35:05 Florian if bear is here, we're quorate, right?
15:35:14 dwd Florian, If he's awake. bear ?
15:35:21 Florian haha ... I think you might be right
15:35:34 Kev You need to change the bylaws so I count towards quorum, as I'm always here :p
15:35:46 Florian heh ...
15:35:51 dwd Kev, We can't do that, we need a members meeting.
15:35:54 Florian I think that says less about the bylaws than it does about you :)
15:36:27 dwd Kev, I think we can allocate ourselves a salary, though. Or at least, we can appoint ourselves into an officer's position and then give ourselves a salary.
15:36:47 Florian :)
15:37:34 cchris434 has joined
15:37:39 dwd Hi Chris.
15:37:41 cchris434 hi Chris here
15:37:44 cchris434 hello!
15:37:49 Florian Hi Chris :)
15:37:54 Kev I'm happy with handing out salaries as long as I get one.
15:38:00 dwd Well, that's certainly quorate.
15:38:10 dwd Kev, I bet you wish you could vote, now.
15:38:13 bear is here
15:38:36 dwd OK, and now we are four.
15:38:45 Florian all good then :)
15:39:24 cchris434 sorry that I was late
15:39:37 dwd So, we don't actually have any real agenda, but stuff has been happening nonetheless.
15:39:49 Florian GSoC is one thing
15:39:53 dwd Kev, My understanding is that the Summer of Code application went well?
15:40:28 Kev We got slots for all the students we wanted marked "Amazing", although none of the ones that were "Nice to have".
15:40:40 Kev But as that's already more slots than in the last couple of years we did pretty well.
15:40:40 dwd How many is that?
15:40:54 Kev 7
15:41:00 Florian I think that's a nice number
15:41:07 dwd OK, so two questions:
15:41:15 dwd 1) What's the next step?
15:41:30 Kev 1) Attending the dedup meeting in approximately 3 hours 19 minutes.
15:41:42 dwd 2) Presumably this means we get 7 x $SOMETHING into the XSF's piggy bank at some point?
15:41:56 dwd What's a dedup meeting?
15:42:23 Kev If multiple orgs accept the same student it's a dupe.
15:42:26 bear some students are accepted by more than one org - dedupe is when they figure out who wins the student
15:42:27 Kev These need to be resolved.
15:42:39 Florian right
15:42:49 Florian do we know of any risks in our case?
15:42:51 Kev This will take about 5 minutes, as all the dupes should already have been sorted out between the orgs (ours was, at least).
15:43:02 Kev Florian: I've already resolved our only known duplicate.
15:43:08 Florian alright :)
15:43:15 Kev It's possible for more to occur during the meeting, but this is unlikely to affect us.
15:43:27 Kev The next real step is sorting out an appropriate welcome for the students.
15:43:43 Kev I'm hoping someone will help with this, as I'll be fairly busy with my own student.
15:44:05 Florian appropriate welcome in what sense? A nice mail + blog post?
15:44:11 Florian or should we give them XMPP Swag?
15:44:31 Kev We typically give them swag, although I think we dropped the ball a bit last year.
15:44:42 Florian right ... books for all?
15:44:55 bear yes, I messed up the books for last year
15:45:03 bear tshirt + books would be nice IMO
15:45:15 Florian right
15:45:16 Kev But yes, we should make sure they're on the gsoc mailing list, we should make sure they know who to talk to.
15:45:29 Florian I was thinking of shirts / hoodies ... but they're locked up at Cisco Diegem
15:45:33 Kev I'd like it if someone other than me was a possible contact - at least so my student has a chance to bitch to someone about me.
15:45:47 Florian I'd be happy to help
15:45:52 Kev Thanks.
15:45:57 bear I can help monitor the gsoc xmpp list
15:46:03 Kev Thanks.
15:46:09 Florian I need to join that :)
15:46:47 Kev I note that we did have a bit of an issue this year.
15:47:13 bear the stuck-in-moderation issue?
15:47:17 Kev louiz' didn't read any of my mails or Carol's emails, and so hasn't started deciding he wants students for poezio until today - which is clearly far too late to be able to do anything about it.
15:47:37 bear ah
15:47:46 Kev So some poor students haven't got slots through no fault of their own.
15:48:06 Kev Other next steps include setting up weekly meetings for all students and mentors in the gsoc room.
15:48:36 bear that was hard to wrangle last year - the students were in timezones that made a common meeting hard
15:48:39 Florian alright
15:48:50 Florian what time worked last year?
15:48:53 Kev As for books, I suggest the two XMPP books, pragprog and something on time management.
15:49:10 Kev Florian: Typically evening UK time is what we go for, we'll see once we have the students.
15:49:58 Florian alright
15:50:01 Kev We will also need some blog post, I imagine.
15:50:10 Florian on a sidenote: what's the URL / E-mail to subscribe to gsoc?
15:50:23 Kev To our gsoc list, you mean?
15:50:27 Florian yeah
15:50:30 Florian I'm on the Google one
15:50:45 Florian Kev: if you send me the info that need to go into the blogpost, I can write one tomorrow at the airport
15:50:51 Kev http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/gsoc
15:51:07 Kev Florian: Thanks - but we can't discuss our accepted students until they know themselves, which is Monday :)
15:51:28 bear we could use an etherpad to start coordinating student meetings and posts
15:51:31 Florian or that :)
15:51:43 bear so we all have info on which student is attending and also blogging
15:52:04 Kev bear: We should get all the students to set themselves up with blogs and onto planet, too, yeah.
15:52:44 Florian gsoc@xmpp.org. You are already subscribed to this mailing list.
15:52:48 Florian interesting
15:52:51 Kev Congratulations :)
15:53:02 bear part of their "Day 1" activities: wiki accounts, blog planet, meeting info, mailing address
15:53:04 Kev Ok, so we've got a bunch of stuff to do, but we can't do it until Monday.
15:53:22 Florian alright
15:53:36 bear actually - we should create a gsoc 2012 wiki page
15:53:49 bear and have the students, when known, start filling in info
15:54:09 Kev We can sign them up to the mailing list and wiki ourselves, but theother things need their interaction.
15:54:13 dwd So aside from approving $MONEY to spend on $BOOKS, does the Board need to do anything here?
15:54:29 Kev Is someone willing to offer to sort out bear's list of TODOs above, Monday or Tuesday next week?
15:54:44 bear florian - we can meet monday and work out the list
15:54:51 Florian bear: sounds good
15:55:13 Kev Is that bear and Florian sorting out the student welcome?
15:55:18 bear kev - yes
15:55:21 Florian yup
15:55:23 Kev Marvellous, thanks chaps.
15:55:35 Kev I will chase if I remember, once the announcements go out.
15:55:45 dwd bear, Florian - that's including the swag, right?
15:56:01 Kev dwd: 2) Yes, there will be $3500 available to the XSF towards the end of the year. We'll need to invoice for it. I believe we failed to last year.
15:56:01 bear it can
15:56:20 Kev For books I suggest we go with the two XMPP books, PragProg and something timemanagementy.
15:56:29 Florian alright
15:56:41 Kev Assuming we can swallow the cost until the end of the year.
15:56:54 bear where I failed last year was in getting addresses for shipping until way to late
15:56:55 dwd Kev, Yes, we can.
15:57:15 dwd Where is the list of students going to be documented?
15:57:26 bear it will be on the xsf's gsoc page
15:57:32 bear actually it is, just private
15:57:37 Kev dwd: On google-melange.com. I can just tell you who right now if you want - but not in a logged public channel.
15:57:58 Kev It's not final until Monday, but it's very nearly a done deal at this point unless the dedup meeting throws us a new dupe.
15:57:59 dwd Kev, Sure - it was more of a question of our internal logistics, not because I wanted to know.
15:58:37 Kev I note that there wasn't much Board help in ranking students this year.
15:58:58 Kev In fact, only Florian signed up.
15:59:23 dwd OK, noted.
15:59:43 dwd Kev, Anything more on GSoC?
15:59:44 Kev And I think that's GSoC covered.
16:00:19 Florian great
16:00:20 dwd So in summary, Florian and bear are sorting out student welcomes on Monday.
16:00:26 Florian yup
16:00:44 bear yes
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16:01:15 Florian I quickly wanted to bring up another thing ...
16:01:22 Florian if we're done with GSOC
16:01:23 dwd Florian, Shoot.
16:01:31 bear did we approve money for books?
16:01:50 Florian bear: I think we did
16:02:06 dwd bear, In principle - get a proposal together. I'm assuming it'll all come to << what we're getting.
16:02:22 Florian right :)
16:02:41 bear k, once we have list of students I can find out what cost will be for shipping
16:02:55 Florian coolbeans
16:03:13 Florian at the Summit in Brussels, we talked about BrowserID and letting XMPP become the standard for it
16:03:18 dwd bear, Sure, but if we're getting books, we can ship locally (ie, ship to EU from EU, etc).
16:03:43 dwd Florian, Yeah, we discussed a lot in this space and we (meaning I, mostly) haven't followed up much.
16:04:28 Florian right
16:04:45 Florian I think we should push this as the board
16:05:07 bear what is required for pushing?
16:05:34 bear internal to moz i'm pushing hard to get some work done on 2 dns srv related bugs
16:05:37 Florian good question ... I think just starting conversation with entities such as BrowserID (Mozilla?)
16:05:38 dwd bear, Someone who works for Mozilla getting the right (BrowserID + XMPP) folk in a chatroom together, probably.
16:05:42 bear to allow js code to make dns questions
16:06:10 bear buddycloud folk are already in touch with all the mozilla people
16:06:34 Florian ah, cool
16:06:42 Florian so maybe get them together too?
16:07:02 bear but maybe we need to start having buddycloud have public conversations so mozilla folk have to respond in public
16:07:07 bear right now I think it's all via email
16:08:25 dwd OK, so the thing to do from a Board perspective is to push these conversations into the public sphere.
16:08:51 bear +1
16:09:09 Florian +2
16:09:16 cchris434 +3
16:09:17 bear let me ping simon
16:09:21 Florian and make sure XMPP becomes the glue for the internet :)
16:09:25 bear and ask what he is blocked on
16:09:35 bear well, and to also get him to post to the list about it
16:10:04 Florian is it worth that we get a SIG ?
16:11:02 bear we need to figure out what all the pieces are
16:11:11 dwd The problem with SIGs is that we run the risk of them having too small a number of people to keep momentum. I'd rather form SIGs by demand, in general.
16:11:49 Kev I agree.
16:11:56 dwd My inclination is that if Simon & co are actively driving this, we should let them continue, and support them where we can.
16:12:04 bear yes
16:12:18 Florian yes, I agree
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16:12:29 Florian I think we (the XSF) need to push this in the next few months
16:12:32 dwd Although pulling the discussion into the public seems like something we should push for, of course.
16:12:38 dwd Ah, speak of the Simon.
16:12:39 simon tips his hat.
16:13:14 dwd simon, Your discussions with Mozilla - we'd like them to be public, if at all possible. What can we do to help?
16:14:20 simon At the moment someone needs to implement a proof of concept. I'll be in Mountain View next week and would like to meet with Ben Adida at Mozilla again.
16:14:43 bear i'm sending him an email right now to try and get that done
16:14:47 simon There's no secret on progress. I've just exceeded my mental bandwith this month and so nothing has happened.
16:15:12 bear more resources at mozilla are being thrown into the persona and identity space
16:15:24 bear internally they are gearing up to enter that space as a company
16:15:31 bear so now is the time to get under their noses
16:15:56 simon I like that Thunderbird has an XMPP stack now and perhaps something could come out of that. From my own opinion I'm really keen on "get a channel, you've got a browserID"
16:16:24 Florian right
16:16:31 dwd simon, RIght, our aim here (as XSF) is to ensure that XMPP is the identity/browserid solution.
16:16:42 Florian for me I see it this way: you have a single ID (a JID), and all your friends are on there
16:16:56 simon Ben was really keen on not excluding an XMPP component... but there isn't any demo for that yet.
16:17:41 simon momspeak: "My email that I can chat with also enables me to sign into my Etsy account"
16:17:49 bear with tbird now doing xmpp - the time is right for other parts of moz to do the same
16:18:02 Florian indeed
16:18:22 Florian and if you think of identity ... it consists of you (authentication) and your network (your roster)
16:18:22 simon Bear: how will mozilla be spinning up XMPP hosting?
16:18:29 Florian and we have notifications sorted
16:18:33 bear email sent to ben and david ascher about your being in MV
16:18:36 Florian as we can do push
16:18:39 dwd So, we really need a tech demo done, you think?
16:18:44 bear yes
16:18:46 dwd .
16:18:59 Florian hmm, would it be worth spending some money on doing that?
16:19:11 bear I haven't pushed for moz running their own xmpp - I think the ops folks are scared of it by lack of knowledge
16:19:29 Florian bear: they should contact a third party :)
16:19:30 bear the last one they tried was ejabberd
16:19:46 simon Mozilla should just make a nice sign-up process that can spin you offto other known providers. (heck, they don't host email either).
16:19:57 simon shudders.
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16:20:15 bear they don't host it *yet*
16:20:40 simon It's a problem we have with bc too. The next version will help a user choose a good domain.
16:20:59 bear email hosting was the biggest problem for tbird also
16:21:10 bear people downloaded it expecting to get an email address
16:21:44 simon that still doesn't mean they need to get one from Mozilla.
16:22:02 bear true
16:22:51 bear they also thought to host sync offsite - until they realized none existed that had the privacy policy that was likeable to moz
16:22:59 bear so they had to create sync servers
16:23:35 bear the issue with xmpp is that once it is part of the browser then they need xmpp servers that can handle 40 million users
16:24:06 Florian bear: they should drop us a line :)
16:24:19 bear "us" being flosoft?
16:24:20 simon it's called gtalk.
16:24:26 dwd bear, Or else we need a protocol that allows distributed fedreated signup.
16:24:43 Florian bear: yeah, sorry .. I'll stop self promoting :)
16:25:02 bear florian - no - was just wanting to be clear - keep self promoting :)
16:25:14 bear for a brief moment I thought you meant xsf
16:25:36 bear can gtalk be used for non-gmail signups?
16:25:45 dwd bear, No, not really.
16:26:11 bear because the browserid would be their xmpp jid - for it to really be federated
16:26:22 dwd bear, But in any case, sign-up is a technical problem.
16:26:30 bear agreed
16:26:58 dwd So back to where I was before my DSL dropped, I'm wondering if there's likely to be someone we could throw a bounty to, to get the tech demo written.
16:27:46 dwd I think it's an area where, if XMPP got a foothold, we'd massively increase XMPP deployment and use, and that seems somethign worth spending actual cash on.
16:27:54 bear agreed
16:28:29 bear we would need an xmpp server that groks the server side browserid implementation
16:28:34 Florian agreed
16:28:34 Zash Yay world domination!
16:28:59 dwd bear, Yeah, we need a protocol too, or at least a strawman for one.
16:29:45 Zash dwd: Write down what you described at the summit?
16:30:24 dwd Zash, Yeah, although my solution had an XMPP address for the website. But yeah, we could do something here.
16:30:38 bear can we continue on list for this - I need to run
16:31:01 dwd bear, Yeah - assuming we're happy in principle to spend some cash here, let's raise it on the members list?
16:31:06 Florian I can send a quick summary of where we're at with BrowserID to the list
16:31:10 Florian list, being board first?
16:31:22 bear I think if we can get a small focused project idea - yes
16:31:24 Florian and we can decide what we can do?
16:31:44 bear or even an incremental list of tech demos
16:31:55 Florian XMPP as ID for everyone in the world ... I'd be more than happy to spend money on that
16:32:01 Ashley since i was late, we're describing something for GSOC or just more general purpose?
16:32:05 dwd Florian, That has been duly noted.
16:32:13 dwd Ashley, General purpose, in this case.
16:32:30 Ashley ok, cool & interesting!
16:33:05 dwd Right - Next meeting - was this time OK for everyone?
16:33:07 simon has left
16:33:19 Florian I like this time
16:33:23 bear this time was very good
16:33:31 Ashley yes, was good for me, but did it ever get added to the ical?
16:33:34 dwd Then this time next week, OK?
16:33:38 simon has joined
16:33:42 dwd Ashley, Erm. Possibly not.
16:33:44 Kev Was this meeting arranged on the members list? It's possible I missed it, but I didn't see it announced.
16:33:53 Ashley i think it was on the board list
16:34:10 Florian yeah, I think board only
16:34:12 dwd Kev, No, this is also true - I arranged it on the board list.
16:34:20 Kev I vaguely remember a discussion about the members list being used by Board for everything that didn't need to be out of camera.
16:34:23 bear are we moving to fridays then?
16:34:24 Florian but yeah, let's push it to Members list
16:34:41 Florian bear, I'd +1 that
16:34:47 bear +1 for fridays also
16:34:48 Florian not that it matters to me ... everyday is sunday :)
16:34:51 dwd bear, Seems that way, unless there's objections.
16:35:01 bear my wed is just way to busy lately
16:35:02 cchris434 I am good with that
16:35:05 Ashley +1 on fridays for me
16:35:18 dwd OK, so same time next week, I'll announce it on members and do the ical thing.
16:35:22 Florian Friday 1530 UTC it is :)
16:35:27 bear +1
16:35:43 Ashley great, thx!
16:35:52 simon If anyone is interested in how bc is planning on doing a distributed sign-up this is the current plan: http://postimage.org/image/6shnsv2k1/
16:35:58 Ashley tho, next friday i'll be traveling and may not be able to make it
16:36:01 dwd I think we're done - anyone anything further?
16:36:08 cchris434 I am good, thank you
16:36:19 Florian +1 for ending this :)
16:36:21 Kev Not from the peanut gallery.
16:36:25 bear +1 for adjourn
16:36:49 dwd See you all on the list, then. :-)
16:36:55 bear thanks all
16:37:03 cchris434 ciao
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16:37:20 Florian great meeting guys! thanks all!
16:38:30 bear simon - davida says he can meet later in week
16:39:26 simon Awesome! I'll shoot him an email.
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