dwdFlorian, I think this may be the first meeting we've had across three continents.
Florianif bear is here, we're quorate, right?
dwdFlorian, If he's awake. bear ?
Florianhaha ... I think you might be right
KevYou need to change the bylaws so I count towards quorum, as I'm always here :p
Florianheh ...
dwdKev, We can't do that, we need a members meeting.
FlorianI think that says less about the bylaws than it does about you :)
dwdKev, I think we can allocate ourselves a salary, though. Or at least, we can appoint ourselves into an officer's position and then give ourselves a salary.
Florian:)
cchris434has joined
dwdHi Chris.
cchris434hi Chris here
cchris434hello!
FlorianHi Chris :)
KevI'm happy with handing out salaries as long as I get one.
dwdWell, that's certainly quorate.
dwdKev, I bet you wish you could vote, now.
bearis here
dwdOK, and now we are four.
Florianall good then :)
cchris434sorry that I was late
dwdSo, we don't actually have any real agenda, but stuff has been happening nonetheless.
FlorianGSoC is one thing
dwdKev, My understanding is that the Summer of Code application went well?
KevWe got slots for all the students we wanted marked "Amazing", although none of the ones that were "Nice to have".
KevBut as that's already more slots than in the last couple of years we did pretty well.
dwdHow many is that?
Kev7
FlorianI think that's a nice number
dwdOK, so two questions:
dwd1) What's the next step?
Kev1) Attending the dedup meeting in approximately 3 hours 19 minutes.
dwd2) Presumably this means we get 7 x $SOMETHING into the XSF's piggy bank at some point?
dwdWhat's a dedup meeting?
KevIf multiple orgs accept the same student it's a dupe.
bearsome students are accepted by more than one org - dedupe is when they figure out who wins the student
KevThese need to be resolved.
Florianright
Floriando we know of any risks in our case?
KevThis will take about 5 minutes, as all the dupes should already have been sorted out between the orgs (ours was, at least).
KevFlorian: I've already resolved our only known duplicate.
Florianalright :)
KevIt's possible for more to occur during the meeting, but this is unlikely to affect us.
KevThe next real step is sorting out an appropriate welcome for the students.
KevI'm hoping someone will help with this, as I'll be fairly busy with my own student.
Florianappropriate welcome in what sense? A nice mail + blog post?
Florianor should we give them XMPP Swag?
KevWe typically give them swag, although I think we dropped the ball a bit last year.
Florianright ... books for all?
bearyes, I messed up the books for last year
beartshirt + books would be nice IMO
Florianright
KevBut yes, we should make sure they're on the gsoc mailing list, we should make sure they know who to talk to.
FlorianI was thinking of shirts / hoodies ... but they're locked up at Cisco Diegem
KevI'd like it if someone other than me was a possible contact - at least so my student has a chance to bitch to someone about me.
FlorianI'd be happy to help
KevThanks.
bearI can help monitor the gsoc xmpp list
KevThanks.
FlorianI need to join that :)
KevI note that we did have a bit of an issue this year.
bearthe stuck-in-moderation issue?
Kevlouiz' didn't read any of my mails or Carol's emails, and so hasn't started deciding he wants students for poezio until today - which is clearly far too late to be able to do anything about it.
bearah
KevSo some poor students haven't got slots through no fault of their own.
KevOther next steps include setting up weekly meetings for all students and mentors in the gsoc room.
bearthat was hard to wrangle last year - the students were in timezones that made a common meeting hard
Florianalright
Florianwhat time worked last year?
KevAs for books, I suggest the two XMPP books, pragprog and something on time management.
KevFlorian: Typically evening UK time is what we go for, we'll see once we have the students.
Florianalright
KevWe will also need some blog post, I imagine.
Florianon a sidenote: what's the URL / E-mail to subscribe to gsoc?
KevTo our gsoc list, you mean?
Florianyeah
FlorianI'm on the Google one
FlorianKev: if you send me the info that need to go into the blogpost, I can write one tomorrow at the airport
Kevhttp://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/gsoc
KevFlorian: Thanks - but we can't discuss our accepted students until they know themselves, which is Monday :)
bearwe could use an etherpad to start coordinating student meetings and posts
Florianor that :)
bearso we all have info on which student is attending and also blogging
Kevbear: We should get all the students to set themselves up with blogs and onto planet, too, yeah.
Floriangsoc@xmpp.org. You are already subscribed to this mailing list.
Florianinteresting
KevCongratulations :)
bearpart of their "Day 1" activities: wiki accounts, blog planet, meeting info, mailing address
KevOk, so we've got a bunch of stuff to do, but we can't do it until Monday.
Florianalright
bearactually - we should create a gsoc 2012 wiki page
bearand have the students, when known, start filling in info
KevWe can sign them up to the mailing list and wiki ourselves, but theother things need their interaction.
dwdSo aside from approving $MONEY to spend on $BOOKS, does the Board need to do anything here?
KevIs someone willing to offer to sort out bear's list of TODOs above, Monday or Tuesday next week?
bearflorian - we can meet monday and work out the list
Florianbear: sounds good
KevIs that bear and Florian sorting out the student welcome?
bearkev - yes
Florianyup
KevMarvellous, thanks chaps.
KevI will chase if I remember, once the announcements go out.
dwdbear, Florian - that's including the swag, right?
Kevdwd: 2) Yes, there will be $3500 available to the XSF towards the end of the year. We'll need to invoice for it. I believe we failed to last year.
bearit can
KevFor books I suggest we go with the two XMPP books, PragProg and something timemanagementy.
Florianalright
KevAssuming we can swallow the cost until the end of the year.
bearwhere I failed last year was in getting addresses for shipping until way to late
dwdKev, Yes, we can.
dwdWhere is the list of students going to be documented?
bearit will be on the xsf's gsoc page
bearactually it is, just private
Kevdwd: On google-melange.com. I can just tell you who right now if you want - but not in a logged public channel.
KevIt's not final until Monday, but it's very nearly a done deal at this point unless the dedup meeting throws us a new dupe.
dwdKev, Sure - it was more of a question of our internal logistics, not because I wanted to know.
KevI note that there wasn't much Board help in ranking students this year.
KevIn fact, only Florian signed up.
dwdOK, noted.
dwdKev, Anything more on GSoC?
KevAnd I think that's GSoC covered.
Floriangreat
dwdSo in summary, Florian and bear are sorting out student welcomes on Monday.
Florianyup
bearyes
Ashleyhas joined
FlorianI quickly wanted to bring up another thing ...
Florianif we're done with GSOC
dwdFlorian, Shoot.
beardid we approve money for books?
Florianbear: I think we did
dwdbear, In principle - get a proposal together. I'm assuming it'll all come to << what we're getting.
Florianright :)
beark, once we have list of students I can find out what cost will be for shipping
Floriancoolbeans
Florianat the Summit in Brussels, we talked about BrowserID and letting XMPP become the standard for it
dwdbear, Sure, but if we're getting books, we can ship locally (ie, ship to EU from EU, etc).
dwdFlorian, Yeah, we discussed a lot in this space and we (meaning I, mostly) haven't followed up much.
Florianright
FlorianI think we should push this as the board
bearwhat is required for pushing?
bearinternal to moz i'm pushing hard to get some work done on 2 dns srv related bugs
Floriangood question ... I think just starting conversation with entities such as BrowserID (Mozilla?)
dwdbear, Someone who works for Mozilla getting the right (BrowserID + XMPP) folk in a chatroom together, probably.
bearto allow js code to make dns questions
bearbuddycloud folk are already in touch with all the mozilla people
Florianah, cool
Florianso maybe get them together too?
bearbut maybe we need to start having buddycloud have public conversations so mozilla folk have to respond in public
bearright now I think it's all via email
dwdOK, so the thing to do from a Board perspective is to push these conversations into the public sphere.
bear+1
Florian+2
cchris434 +3
bearlet me ping simon
Florianand make sure XMPP becomes the glue for the internet :)
bearand ask what he is blocked on
bearwell, and to also get him to post to the list about it
Florianis it worth that we get a SIG ?
bearwe need to figure out what all the pieces are
dwdThe problem with SIGs is that we run the risk of them having too small a number of people to keep momentum. I'd rather form SIGs by demand, in general.
KevI agree.
dwdMy inclination is that if Simon & co are actively driving this, we should let them continue, and support them where we can.
bearyes
Florianyes, I agree
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FlorianI think we (the XSF) need to push this in the next few months
dwdAlthough pulling the discussion into the public seems like something we should push for, of course.
dwdAh, speak of the Simon.
simontips his hat.
dwdsimon, Your discussions with Mozilla - we'd like them to be public, if at all possible. What can we do to help?
simonAt the moment someone needs to implement a proof of concept. I'll be in Mountain View next week and would like to meet with Ben Adida at Mozilla again.
beari'm sending him an email right now to try and get that done
simonThere's no secret on progress. I've just exceeded my mental bandwith this month and so nothing has happened.
bearmore resources at mozilla are being thrown into the persona and identity space
bearinternally they are gearing up to enter that space as a company
bearso now is the time to get under their noses
simonI like that Thunderbird has an XMPP stack now and perhaps something could come out of that. From my own opinion I'm really keen on "get a channel, you've got a browserID"
Florianright
dwdsimon, RIght, our aim here (as XSF) is to ensure that XMPP is the identity/browserid solution.
Florianfor me I see it this way: you have a single ID (a JID), and all your friends are on there
simonBen was really keen on not excluding an XMPP component... but there isn't any demo for that yet.
simonmomspeak: "My email that I can chat with also enables me to sign into my Etsy account"
bearwith tbird now doing xmpp - the time is right for other parts of moz to do the same
Florianindeed
Florianand if you think of identity ... it consists of you (authentication) and your network (your roster)
simonBear: how will mozilla be spinning up XMPP hosting?
Florianand we have notifications sorted
bearemail sent to ben and david ascher about your being in MV
Florianas we can do push
dwdSo, we really need a tech demo done, you think?
bearyes
dwd.
Florianhmm, would it be worth spending some money on doing that?
bearI haven't pushed for moz running their own xmpp - I think the ops folks are scared of it by lack of knowledge
Florianbear: they should contact a third party :)
bearthe last one they tried was ejabberd
simonMozilla should just make a nice sign-up process that can spin you offto other known providers. (heck, they don't host email either).
simonshudders.
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bearthey don't host it *yet*
simonIt's a problem we have with bc too. The next version will help a user choose a good domain.
bearemail hosting was the biggest problem for tbird also
bearpeople downloaded it expecting to get an email address
simonthat still doesn't mean they need to get one from Mozilla.
beartrue
bearthey also thought to host sync offsite - until they realized none existed that had the privacy policy that was likeable to moz
bearso they had to create sync servers
bearthe issue with xmpp is that once it is part of the browser then they need xmpp servers that can handle 40 million users
Florianbear: they should drop us a line :)
bear"us" being flosoft?
simonit's called gtalk.
dwdbear, Or else we need a protocol that allows distributed fedreated signup.
bearflorian - no - was just wanting to be clear - keep self promoting :)
bearfor a brief moment I thought you meant xsf
bearcan gtalk be used for non-gmail signups?
dwdbear, No, not really.
bearbecause the browserid would be their xmpp jid - for it to really be federated
dwdbear, But in any case, sign-up is a technical problem.
bearagreed
dwdSo back to where I was before my DSL dropped, I'm wondering if there's likely to be someone we could throw a bounty to, to get the tech demo written.
dwdI think it's an area where, if XMPP got a foothold, we'd massively increase XMPP deployment and use, and that seems somethign worth spending actual cash on.
bearagreed
bearwe would need an xmpp server that groks the server side browserid implementation
Florianagreed
ZashYay world domination!
dwdbear, Yeah, we need a protocol too, or at least a strawman for one.
Zashdwd: Write down what you described at the summit?
dwdZash, Yeah, although my solution had an XMPP address for the website. But yeah, we could do something here.
bearcan we continue on list for this - I need to run
dwdbear, Yeah - assuming we're happy in principle to spend some cash here, let's raise it on the members list?
FlorianI can send a quick summary of where we're at with BrowserID to the list
Florianlist, being board first?
bearI think if we can get a small focused project idea - yes
Florianand we can decide what we can do?
bearor even an incremental list of tech demos
FlorianXMPP as ID for everyone in the world ... I'd be more than happy to spend money on that
Ashleysince i was late, we're describing something for GSOC or just more general purpose?
dwdFlorian, That has been duly noted.
dwdAshley, General purpose, in this case.
Ashleyok, cool & interesting!
dwdRight - Next meeting - was this time OK for everyone?
simonhas left
FlorianI like this time
bearthis time was very good
Ashleyyes, was good for me, but did it ever get added to the ical?
dwdThen this time next week, OK?
simonhas joined
dwdAshley, Erm. Possibly not.
KevWas this meeting arranged on the members list? It's possible I missed it, but I didn't see it announced.
Ashleyi think it was on the board list
Florianyeah, I think board only
dwdKev, No, this is also true - I arranged it on the board list.
KevI vaguely remember a discussion about the members list being used by Board for everything that didn't need to be out of camera.
bearare we moving to fridays then?
Florianbut yeah, let's push it to Members list
Florianbear, I'd +1 that
bear+1 for fridays also
Floriannot that it matters to me ... everyday is sunday :)
dwdbear, Seems that way, unless there's objections.
bearmy wed is just way to busy lately
cchris434I am good with that
Ashley+1 on fridays for me
dwdOK, so same time next week, I'll announce it on members and do the ical thing.
FlorianFriday 1530 UTC it is :)
bear+1
Ashleygreat, thx!
simonIf anyone is interested in how bc is planning on doing a distributed sign-up this is the current plan: http://postimage.org/image/6shnsv2k1/
Ashleytho, next friday i'll be traveling and may not be able to make it