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dwd
If we ever do a mentoring programme at the XSF, remind me never to pick such delightful criteria for those who need a mentor as the IETF does.
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dwd
Turns out I qualify for a mentor, despite around a decade of IETF activity and being a WG chair. :-)
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SM
A WG chair of which group?
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dwd
qresync. I'm pretty sure that you qualify for a mentor as well.
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dwd
Since its based purely on physical meeting attendance.
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SM
Oh, I would be a bad example as a mentor :-)
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dwd
No, no. I mean we qualify to be mentored, not mentor someone else...
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SM
And we could have some fun?:)
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dwd
If I were going to Vancouver, I might even apply, to prove a point about criteria based purely on physical meeting attendence.
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SM
I was going to apply, dwd
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SM
But people would figure out that I was being, err, myself:)
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dwd
So someone just said to me that this was the most interesting set of elections we've had in years.
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dwd
I have no clue who I'll be voting for yet. :-)
- fippo raises his hand
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dwd
I think it's more a case of deciding who I could live without, not that it makes it any easier.
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SM
dwd, Dave has an idea:)
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dwd
Hmmm. I just realised I'm more than usually opaque. Let me fix that.
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Dave Cridland
There we go.
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SM
Ah
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Dave Cridland
Sorry, I'm used to people knowing that one. :-)
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SM
Dave, we could do it this way
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SM
The one who gets to annoy the st peter the most is voted in?
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fippo
oh, I should go for board then
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SM
See, we have more candidates
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Dave Cridland
fippo, You're already standing for Council...
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SM
Apply, fippo
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Dave Cridland
SM, Deadline's now passed.
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SM
Wait, Council is being less interesting now?
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SM
Dave, let's check timezones
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SM
we can find one where teh deadline is not past
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Dave Cridland
No, I think it's the 14th everywhere, now.
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Lance
and voting has already started, so can't change the ballots now
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Dave Cridland
Lance, Although we did one year. Caused a hell of a mess.
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SM
well, how about a debate?
-
SM
or a chat?
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Dave Cridland
Heh. I think the candidates might outnumber the non-candidates here at the moment.
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SM
It would have to be announced
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SM
I'll post a message to the list
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Dave Cridland
7 candidates in the room, out of 12 total. :-)
- fippo needs to ask for more buttons. 20 won't be enough for portland probably
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Dave Cridland
It really needs to go to members@ as well. And technically it can't be an official meeting.
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SM
It can be informal
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Dave Cridland
Should we pick a time?
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SM
Yes, around now?
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SM
Or whatever works for you
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Dave Cridland
I'm trying to think of the candidate's timezones. Mostly UK to PST. I think you're the outlier - what time is it for you now?
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Kev
I think a sensible criterion for Board is whether people will do what I want :)
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SM
Dave, don't ask:)
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SM
well, if it is UTC, let me see
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SM
19:00 UTC?
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SM
Kev, do you offer beer?
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Kev
I only offer heckling Board meetings.
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Dave Cridland
So 20:00 UK, 21:00 CET, 12:00 PST, 15:00 EST.
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Dave Cridland
Kev, But here's a question for you - what is it you want Board to do?
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Kev
Provide steak.
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Dave Cridland
Right, I did check Florian was still going to be available to do that in Belgium.
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SM
Kev, we only do veggies, something to do with PETA
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SM
so that's no
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Dave Cridland
SM, The FOSDEM co-located Summit in Belgium has already dispelled that one - plenty of steak there.
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SM
Dave, heresy, I like that:)
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fippo
a more concrete vision that "federate or die" (given that those silos are sprouting) would probably be helpful
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MattJ
I seem to be the only vegetarian in the XMPP community
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Lance
What I want board to do is put more effort/resources behind marketing for xmpp
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SM
fippo, seriously, these silos are there to stay
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fippo
SM: that is what i'm afraid of
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Dave Cridland
Lance, Totally. I'm unashamedly hoping Laura Gill will get in and take charge of precisely that.
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SM
Ah, you spotted the talent:)
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Dave Cridland
MattJ, Not true. There's Diana, too.
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SM
What is needed is new dog tricks
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Dave Cridland
SM, What do you mean, exactly?
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SM
People get tired of routine stuff
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SM
Which is why it is good to try something new
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SM
Dog tricks is a term of art to mean stuff to get things done:)
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Kev
fippo: You're suggesting that "Federate or die" is unhelpful and we should facilitate silos, or that we need to pushharder against silos?
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SM
Kev, pushing hard does not work
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SM
Sometimes you need a velvet glove
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Kev
SM: I was asking fippo's meaning.
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SM
It is a play on adapt or perish
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fippo
kev: the silos are beating us in terms of features and agility. because standardization is a slow process.
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Kev
SM: I'm familiar with the saying. I just wasn't clear if fippo was pro or against it.
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Dave Cridland
So if we say we'll be around at 1900 UTC tomorrow, is that good? Or Wednesday?
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Kev
'We'?
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SM
Dave, fine with me
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Kev
I certainly can't do any evening this week, UK time.
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Dave Cridland
Kev, We in the loosest term of "anyone who wants to be about".
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Dave Cridland
Kev, You're in the office this week, right?
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fippo
kev: I do think there is alot of value in interop + federation. as demonstrated with lance :-)
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Kev
Dave Cridland: Yes, but I don't ever say in a public venue that I'm not at home.
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Kev
So, thanks :p
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Dave Cridland
I didn't say that. :-)
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Kev
Dave Cridland: Also remember that if you're having some meeting thing tomorrow you have to do so in Welsh.
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Kev
What with it being start-a-conversation-in-Welsh day.
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Kev
Or Shwmae Day, whatever.
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Dave Cridland
Is it?
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Dave Cridland
Today is International Standards Day, apparently.
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fippo
right. my designer poked me about that even.
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Kev
fippo: Your designer wants to speak Welsh? :D
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Dave Cridland
Kev, Da iawn.
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Kev
Diolch.
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Kev
http://learnwelsh.coleggwent.ac.uk/news/item?id=278
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SM
Ah, they could not even translate that email sign?:)
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Dave Cridland
Actually, I wonder if there's a Board meeting this week? I've not seen anything about one, but if not, we could use that slot.
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Kev
Lance: You're responsible for the new memberbot aren't you?
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Kev
Would you like to cast your votes now? (yes/no) 20:58 no me @ 20:58 Thank you for voting, Kevin Smith! If you wish to recast your votes later, just start a new voting session. memberbot@xmpp.org @ 20:58
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Kev
Something's not right there :)
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Lance
hrm?
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Dave Cridland
s/recast/cast/
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Kev
"Would you like to vote?" "no" "Thanks for voting!"
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Dave Cridland
That too.
-
Dave Cridland
I wonder if you'll be on the voting list now?
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Kev
Hopefully not.
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Dave Cridland
Kev, Any idea if there's a Board meeting?
-
Kev
Otherwise I won't remember to vote when Alex sends the reminders.
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Kev
Dave Cridland: I haven't heard about a Board meeting in some time.
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Dave Cridland
I think I saw somewhere that Mike wasn't planning another until he heard back about the IoT stuff.
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Dave Cridland
Which will presumably be next session now.
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Dave Cridland
So that slot is 15:30 UTC on Wednesday, I think.
-
Kev
[17:03:23] <Kev> I don't know when the next Board meeting is, but discussing GSoC seems sensible. [17:10:41] <MattJ> +1 [17:25:06] <bear> next board meeting is the one after peter delivers the answer about the IoT liason thingy IIRC [17:25:26] <bear> but with GSoC now, I think we need to bump that up (or just punt and wait for voting to be done)
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Kev
That was last Wednesday.
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Kev
Last Board meeting was 13th September.
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Dave Cridland
Was that the IoT discussion?
-
Kev
Yes.
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Alex
sorry guys was in a long meeting. Any problems with the bot?
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Kev
Alex: Are you able to check whether it thinks I've voted, please?
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Alex
I have no results from you Kev
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Kev
Fab, thanks.
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fippo
https://github.com/legastero/memberbot/blob/master/memberbot/chat_voting.py#L51 <-- lance, I think you should check the number of votes before showing 'end' :-)
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Lance
Kev: I'll tweak the message it sends at the end to make that clearer. I've got four startup messages, but only the one ending right now
-
Kev
Lance: It greeted me by name. Does that mean "Hi, Kevin Smith!" is one of the four greetings :)
-
Lance
Yes
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Dave Cridland
So I'm going to suggest people gather to discuss the XSF, and ask questions of candidates if they're about, on Wednesday 1530 UTC (1930 for SM, 1730 CET, 1630 BST, 1130 EST, 0830 PST). Sounds good?
-
Kev
Dave Cridland: Board or also Council candidates?
-
SM
Everyone?
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Dave Cridland
I was going to suggest everyone. But make it clear that this is not an official meeting, and has not been discussed with all candidates prior to this announcement.
-
Kev
I'm not entirely overjoyed with the idea of doing such a thing with ~= no notice and without discussing it with the candidates.
-
Kev
It doesn't entirely smack of due process.
-
Kev
But I'll try and remember to turn up if you send a note to members.
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Dave Cridland
No, it's not. The alternative is to either not hold the meeting or else hold it much later in the voting period. Neither of those seems useful either.
-
SM
Dave, you got mail:)
-
fippo
doing this as part of the summit might be a way to avoid this. while not an official meeting either, everyone who is interested knows when it happens.
-
Kev
fippo: Which is great for those people who'll be at the summit.
-
Kev
But it's also true that this isn't helpful when it's late in the voting period.
-
Kev
It basically needs to happen after applications close and before voting begins :)
-
Dave Cridland
Right. So we can either pick a different time, or else simply declare an open discussion.
-
fippo
kev: right. but having a vote so close to the summit is probably going to add bias in any case
-
Kev
It'll bias in favour of anyone at the summit, yes.
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SM
Well, we can have two chats
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Kev
fippo: Having the chat during the summit makes this much worse.
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Dave Cridland
Kev, Yes, i agree. Plus it's not good use of the summit.
- fippo nods
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Kev
Another option would be to find some asynchronous communication mechanism.
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Dave Cridland
Kev, yeah, we could do this entirely on a mailing list, but which one?
-
Kev
members with CC for the applicants.
-
fippo
we have this wiki thing where each candidate has a discussion page.
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Dave Cridland
Two of the Board candidates (I think) cannot post to members@
-
Kev
I think that barrier is not insurmountable.
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Dave Cridland
Perhaps not, but I think it'll nevertheless disadvantage them.
-
SM
It is:)
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bear
grrr, i've had my laptop open for hours and swift was off in zombie socket land
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Kev
Grief. How long's the TCP timeout?
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bear
it's made worse by me closing the laptop lid often
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Dave Cridland
What TCP timeout?
-
Dave Cridland
Though i'd expect Swift to update presence and kick in the ack timeout.
- bear finishes reading backscroll
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Kev
We send whings, which should trigger the timeout sooner than the idle presence, even.
-
bear
i don't know that this one edge case of someone wanting to discuss something without being an XSF member has come up before
-
Kev
We have had non-member applicants to Board before.
-
Kev
Just that Board applicants aren't generally as keen to make themselves available for questions.
-
bear
right, for the most part the board is not the busy part of the XSF
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bear
and I thought that issue was solved by the muc rooms being public
-
bear
my solution for the communication would be to ensure that who ever adds their name to the board list that they poke someone to get on the members@ list
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Kev
I may have misunderstood, but I think Dave and SM were suggesting a session for them to be asked questions about their applications.
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Dave Cridland
That works after the election, yes.
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bear
it's the one list we know everyone has access to and watches
-
stpeter
BTW it is easy enough for us to modify the allowed senders for the members@ list
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Kev
Rather than them to ask questions about the XSF.
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bear
oh
-
bear
isn't that what the Talk page on the wiki is for?
-
SM
It's not interactive
-
Kev
It is. Although to the best of my knowledge that's never been used.
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Dave Cridland
Actually, more a way for the existing members and candidates to generally discuss together, rather than a Q&A session.
-
Kev
So either People don't know about it, People don't want to converse, or People don't want to converse in that way.
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bear
adding candidates to the members@ list seems the simplest way to get everyone onto the same channel
- stpeter nods to bear
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bear
what could be a good thing to add to the election process is a set of "office hours" - block out two sessions of an hour where the candidates are available
-
SM
That's a good idea, bear
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Dave Cridland
Right, that's kind of what we were discussing, I think.
-
bear
one block would be EU centric and the other not-EU centric
-
SM
See, it is faster to resolve things over XMPP, good selling point for the protocol :-)
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bear
XMPP is all about communication regardless of what the humans running it try to do ;)
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Dave Cridland
I'm actually both EU and non-EU, at the moment. ;-)
- bear looks in the dictionary under "thorn" and sees Dave smiling back
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Dave Cridland
bear, FWIW, candidates run from UTC-7 to UTC+4 if that helps pick times.
-
stpeter
mailman configuration updated to give posting privileges to Board candidates
-
Kev
I'm not sure not being able to tell what continent you're on is a good selling point :p
-
SM
stepeter, and I have to click refresh on the archive?
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Dave Cridland
Kev, I know which I'm on now. But during the voting period I'll be in three different timezones.
-
SM
I once saw someone using XMPP like that:)
-
fippo
stpeter: maybe mention that in http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/members as well
-
stpeter
SM: for all the back messages, yes -- but people will need to cc you and Laura in the new thread, which I suggest that bear starts as the current chair
-
SM
stpeter, you have a reply-to in mailman to the list only
-
SM
But I am fine with reading the archive
-
SM
I already made you work for one day:)
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bear
I will post to the members list saying that the candidates for board and council should be considered available for questions by anyone in the XSF
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stpeter
SM: ah yes, the old reply-to flame war -- I haven't seen that arise on the IETF lists in at least a few months
-
stpeter
but folks can reply to all
-
bear
message to members@ sent
-
SM
Thanks bear
-
Dave Cridland
bear, Did you copy that to SM and Laura Gill?
-
SM
No, I'll just copy and paste the message
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bear
oh, poo
-
Dave Cridland
SM, I'm thinking Laura Gill might not see it unless Lloyd or Ashley point it out to her.
-
SM
Copy to Laura
-
SM
And the other candidates
-
SM
It's okay with me
-
bear
thanks
-
ralphm
I am in the Netherlands, but traveling the coming two weeks.
-
bear
I don't think we can really schedule the office hours with this short of notice
-
bear
that's why I like the members@ solution for this time
-
ralphm
indeed
-
bear
I know I will soon be mostly AFK due to realtimeconf stuff
-
ralphm
for sure
-
ralphm
we could do a session at the summit
-
Dave Cridland
I'd like to have office hours just to encourage conversation.
-
Dave Cridland
But I can live without.
-
Dave Cridland
ralphm, I'd rather not spend time on this at the summit. As Kev pointed out, it's rather in favour of summit attendees, plus it's not the best use of time for the summit anyway.
-
bear
adding office hours is something the new board can consider and get into the charter
-
bear
so it becomes part of the process
-
Dave Cridland
That's certainly true.
-
Kev
I'm really quite heavily opposed of doing things about this at the summit.
-
bear
summits work better when the task list is focused - and there is nothing like a discussion about how to do discussions that will unfocus people
-
Kev
I'm not at all opposed to arranging things so this is (semi?)formalised next year.
-
bear
so I would veto anything to do about this in the summit to be blunt
-
ralphm
hehe
-
Dave Cridland
I'm glad we have the "problem" of a well-contested election, too. :-)
-
bear
yes, I was worried the board would have 3 or 4 members this year
-
SM
Dave :-)
-
Dave Cridland
So was I, at one point.
-
ralphm
the list has the additional advantage of time to think
-
Dave Cridland
Don't we want to make sure people can think on their feet? ;-)
-
bear
the list has the advantage for us non-native english speakers of being able to get a good paragraph written that isn't rushed into a muc entry line
-
ralphm
that
-
SM
ralphm, yes, and time zones
-
ralphm
and with that, I'll go sleep now
-
ralphm
cheerio
- bear waves
-
ralphm
oh, who
-
ralphm
's arriving on wednesday?
-
bear
I arrive thursday
-
MattJ
Same
-
Lance
thursday
-
Dave Cridland
Same here, quite late (land at 21:35)
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Dave Cridland
So I guess I'll get to the hotel around 22:30 or so.
-
ralphm
oh, you'll all miss the celebration of life and death of databases
-
bear
:)
-
fippo
thursday, 11:35 from amsterdam.
-
Dave Cridland
Oddly, I'm being routed via Atlanta. I have no clue why.
-
ralphm
Delta hub
-
SM
It's a hub for that region.
-
Dave Cridland
Yeah, true, but i'd have thought Minneapolis would have made more sense.
-
SM
Airline scheduling never makes sense:)
-
Dave Cridland
True. I've heard horror stories about it now, given my boss founded ITA, which basically did airline searches.
- ralphm goes non-stop
-
SM
Hmm, someone bought the software?
-
MattJ
I was due to leave today (I'm doing a tour on my way to the conference), and missed my flight
-
Dave Cridland
MattJ, Ouch!
-
MattJ
The flight I was on is once a day, and they offered to reschedule for free till tomorrow
-
Dave Cridland
MattJ, Where are you headed?
-
MattJ
and that if I didn't accept the offer, all my flights in the itinerary would be cancelled
-
MattJ
That's the part I'm annoyed about
-
MattJ
Going via Boston
-
Dave Cridland
Righty, scribbled my bit.
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