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dwd
Alex, What's the voting looking like, by the way? I'm assuming we have quorum, but what percentage turnout do we have?
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Alex
35 voters right now
-
Alex
not that bad, but we had better turnouts before
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dwd
I'm surprised; I thought with the candidates we have, plus the discussion beforehand, we'd have had more.
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Edwin Mons
Perhaps some people find voting difficult when there's actual choice.
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dwd
Well, I can sympathize. I ended up voting twice, because I changed my mind about the right combination of candidates.
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Alex
there are some members which don't care about whats going on in the XSF at all, maybe some are on holiday, some forget, and for some the choice is too hard ;-)
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Zash
Sounds like every organisation ever :)
-
dwd
Alex, How many members do we have now? 57 according to the list. So that's only a little over half actually voting.
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Alex
ya, this list should be up to date: http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-member-list/
-
Alex
last year 38 out of 52 voted: http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/meeting-minutes/xsf-member-meeting-2012-10-30/
-
Alex
I'll send out a last reminder
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dwd
Worth a try. We'll have to figure out some way of getting more involvement. Or losing members who have no interest.
-
SouL
How do you become a member?
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Alex
SouL: we accept new members 4 times a year (quaterly) see: http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Membership_Applications_Q3_2013
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dwd
SouL, You apply, then the existing members vote you in.
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dwd
SouL, Well, vote on whether to let you in.
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Edwin Mons
That's more true than you can imagine ;)
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dwd
Edwin Mons, Yes, indeed...
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Edwin Mons
And the only thing you must do in return, is vote.
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SouL
Ho-ho, great. Thanks for the link :D
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Edwin Mons
What you /should/ do in return, now that's open to debate.
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dwd
... which is why I get slightly annoyed by people not voting.
-
Edwin Mons
And rightly so.
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Kev
Maybe we should change memberbot to send you a message whenever you log in? )
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Kev
:)
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Zash
And spam invites to this room
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dwd
Or at least it could message everyone to let them know voting is open, and repeat that for non-voters periodically.
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dwd
Zash, Yeah, I'd like that too.
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Alex
I don't think this will help. I think it will get even worse then
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dwd
Alex, We could also include voting records during member elections. :-)
-
Alex
because people which don't care just say yes, yes, yes, yes to get the voting done
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dwd
Alex, Yeah, that's true. Though the new memberbot does make that harder, and reduces the effect of it as well.
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Kev
Yes, the new memberbot seems a vast improvement for Council/Board elections.
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Kev
Maybe we should do something similar for general elections.
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Kev
"Please enter the numbers of the candidates you want to accept as members"
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dwd
Yeah, I'll need to update my voting bot.
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Alex
:D
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Edwin Mons
dwd: what algorithm do you use to decide on who to vote? sort on hash of jid?
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Zash
Or we could do like those game shows where you vote people out
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Kev
Perhaps we could include the number of missed votes next to people's names :)
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dwd
Edwin Mons, You mean my voting bot? Don't you remember my membership application from a couple of years back?
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dwd
Kev, Yeah, I think that should be done.
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Edwin Mons
dwd: you think we read those? We all use bots to do the voting.
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dwd
Edwin Mons, Or else just type "yes" a lot.
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Zash
yes | cli-xmpp memberbot@xmpp.org
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Edwin Mons
dwd, why do you think there's still no Wikipedia page on you? It's because we don't read the applications, so we don't know that it's your deepest desire.
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dwd
It's not my deepest desire. I just happened to mention it once or twice.
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stpeter
set the topic to
XSF discussion room | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Annual Members Meeting 2013-10-29 @ 19:00 UTC
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stpeter
sigh, I have a conference call at 19:00 UTC :(
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dwd
stpeter, We're text only here, you can do both. ;-)
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stpeter
yep
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ralphm
:-D
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ralphm
hey bear
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bear
how is life as a silicon valley coder treating you?
-
ralphm
pretty good, actually
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stpeter
heh
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Kev
Did you move, or are you a WAHer?
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ralphm
Kev: just visiting :-D
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stpeter
unfortunately I really do need to pay close attention to this conference call I have 9 minutes from now :(
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Alex
Kev: whats a WAHer?
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Kev
Work At Home.
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Alex
aaaaah
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bear
doesn't Alex normally drive these meetings - as long as your lurking/attending I think your ok peter
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stpeter
bear: yes, Alex is in charge :-)
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bear
\o/
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Ashley Ward
Hello all :)
-
bear
hi ash
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Zash
Hello
-
dwd
Evening.
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Alex
we will have fun today ;-)
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Alex
lets start in 2 minutes
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dwd
Alex, You're saying that like it'll be a six-way tie.
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bear
:)
-
Alex
ok lets start
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Alex
Here is our Agenda for today: http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/meeting-minutes/xsf-member-meeting-2013-10-29/
-
Alex
1) Call for Quorum
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Alex
as you can see 36 members voted via proxy (bot or email)
-
Alex
we have 57 members, so we already have a quorum
-
Alex
agenda sais 52, will fix this later
-
Alex
2) Items Subject to a Vote
-
Alex
Board and Council elections, you can see all applicants again here on the page: http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2013
-
Alex
3) Opportunity for XSF members to Vote in the Meeting
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waqas
o/
-
Alex
anybody here who has not voted yet?
-
waqas
I haven't
-
Alex
great, so its upto you to fix the ties now ;-)
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ralphm
heh
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dwd
Alex, That's evil. :-)
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ralphm
no pressure whatsoever
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bear
haha!
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waqas
Should I PM you the votes here? :)
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Alex
memberbot should be still online
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Alex
try to vote with teh bot
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waqas
k, voting now
-
ralphm
waiting…
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Alex
;-)
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bear
this is when we need media events - so I can spam everyone with the Jeopardy "thinking" jingle
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fippo
he should appear in a moment
-
waqas
Done
-
waqas
Alex: ^
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waqas
I like the new memberbot 'UI' by the way
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dwd
Lance did a good job there.
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Alex
ok, have 37 votes now. I hope you fixed it ;-)
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Kev
The new memberbot is a vast improvement, kudos to Lance.
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ralphm
Go Lance!
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Lance
still a few rough edges that i'll work on for the next round of elections
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Alex
ya, lots of kudos to Lance
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Alex
so I start countin now, hold on
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ralphm
Alex: don't keep us waiting!
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waqas
Lance: Bug report: the number 8 followed by ) turns into a smiley 8)
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fippo
it still needs more <3 ;-)
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fippo
alex: vote from simon incoming
-
Alex
or is there anybody else who wants to vote?
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Alex
Simon should join the meeting then
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Alex
or is he here?
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ralphm
no
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Alex
tell hom to join the room, then we can record the votes
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Ashley Ward
He says he's just voting.
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ralphm
Simon: no pressure, but eh, we're waiting
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Alex
hi Simon
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Simon
Hello.
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Alex
SImon when you want to vote then you can do it bow
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Alex
2 more minutes ;-)
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Alex
memberbot is still online
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Simon
voted.
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Simon
:)
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Alex
OK, have votes from Simon now
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Simon
aparently I can vote for myself. Awesome!
-
Alex
now voting is closed
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Kev
I hope you didn't vote for any Board members who couldn't complete membership votes on time.
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Ashley Ward
:)
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Simon
voting kickbacks can be delivered to the following bitcoin address….
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Alex
ok, counting
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bear
awww shucks, I should have added a "tip" link to my wiki bio...
-
Alex
4) Announcement of Voting Results
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Alex
I update the page later and anounce the results here this time
-
Alex
if you want to :D
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dwd
I'll stop hitting refresh then.
-
Alex
NAME YES NO TOTAL % Council: ======== Matthew Wild 38 0 38 100 Lance Stout 34 4 38 89,47 Kevin Smith 32 6 38 84,21 Tobias Markmann 26 12 38 68,42 Philipp Hancke 24 14 38 63,16 Ralph Meijer 23 15 38 60,53 Peter Waher 13 25 38 34,21 Board: ====== Dave Cridland 35 3 38 92,11 Ralph Meijer 33 5 38 86,84 Laura Gill 33 5 38 86,84 Mike Taylor 30 8 38 78,95 Simon Tennant 24 14 38 63,16 Arc Riley 15 23 38 39,47 S. Moonesamy 11 27 38 28,95 Ashley Ward 9 29 38 23,68
-
Alex
can you read the table?
-
Kev
Yes.
-
Alex
ok, its ordered
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Simon
What's the purpose of a no vote?
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Alex
I think we have no tie, but it was very close
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Kev
Simon: No just means that they weren't one of the five, I believe.
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Simon
right.
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Kev
i.e. Everyone voted for MattJ, 6 people didn't vote for me.
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Alex
so board 2013/2014 Matt, Lance, Kev, Tobias and Philipp
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dwd
Well, congratulations to the new Council and my fellow Board members!
-
Alex
eh, council
-
Alex
and board Dave, Ralph, Laura, Bear and Simon
-
Alex
congrats to everybody
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Zash
Congrats!
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SouL
Yees congratulations!
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Ashley Ward
Good choices.
-
Alex
Ralph is switching positions ;-)
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Simon
XMPP. Now with 200% more web in 2014.
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bear
;0
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m&m
heh
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bear
oops - meant that to be :)
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m&m
sure ...
-
Alex
5) Any Other Business?
-
Kev
None here.
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remko
so, basically, mattJ voted for himself
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Lance
remko: peer pressure. everyone else did :p
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remko
which is the only vote we know for sure
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Alex
:D
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remko
Lance: :)
-
Alex
6) Formal Adjournment
-
MattJ
I caved in
-
Alex
I motion that we adjourn
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Kev
Alex: Secound.
-
Kev
-u
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m&m
second
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-
Alex
thanks everybody
-
Kev
Thanks for looking after the XSF yet again Alex :)
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remko
so, board + council are buying drinks then?
-
dwd
Thanks, Alex.
-
bear
after the vote has been announced to the list and the new board members added to that mailing list, I'll post a notice to figure out the first board meeting
-
bear
thanks Alex!
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-
bear
yes ^^^
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Alex
I update the wegpage now, once its done I send out the results to the list
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MattJ
FWIW I think it's weird that memberbot even lets you vote for yourself (the same is true of member acceptance iirc)
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bear
I won't get to the board email until later - I have a meeting and lunch to attend to
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MattJ
I guess it makes more sense for council/board
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Ashley Ward
It wouldn't let me vote for myself (although I still would have come last even if it had!)
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remko
MattJ: it's ok matt, you don't have to apoligize :)
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Alex
LOL
-
remko
*apologize*
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Kev
MattJ: I don't see a problem with this.
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m&m
most of us aren't judging you (-:
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MattJ
Kev, for membership I think it's weird
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Kev
Ah, for membership, yes.
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Kev
For Board/Council, not so much.
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Alex
I don't see one other, its the same in politics
-
MattJ
If you apply, you somewhat imply you want to be accepted
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MattJ
I agree it's slightly different for our council/board election model, where you just select your dream council/board
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bear
s/dream/nightmare/ ? ;)
-
MattJ
Scaffolding, or whatever stpeter likes to call the XSF :)
-
bear
Thanks everyone for attending
- bear wanders off to another meeting
-
Alex
page is updated: http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/meeting-minutes/xsf-member-meeting-2013-10-29/
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Kev
I wonder if I have magic powers to fix the council@ list.
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Alex
please check
-
MattJ
Interesting about ralphm
-
Kev
I think Ralph has a very strong claim to a place on Board. He's been Mr. FOSDEM since forever.
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MattJ
Same thing happened to Jack Moffitt the year he applied for both council and board
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MattJ
Maybe the members consider it a promotion, and don't think you can do both jobs at once :)
-
Kev
And yeah, I'm not convinced being on both Council/Board is a good thing.
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MattJ
(which may well be true)
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fippo
isn't it the first step to retirement? *duck and run*
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SM
senility?
-
Alex
I agree, which is the reason why I voted him in one position only
-
Alex
sorry ralphm ;-)
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SM
How come nobody created a page for dwd?
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bear
it's up to dave to create a page for dave
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SM
On Wikipedia
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bear
wikipedia?
-
Zash
Can't create your own page on WP!
-
SM
Yes, old joke from yesterday
-
Kev
Zash: Can't create your own page on wordpress?
-
SM
:-)
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fippo
alex: i don't think simon has a jid in the .xml tld @ minutes ;-)
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dwd
Best change that before ICANN send him a bill.
-
Zash
!
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Kev
Lance / fippo: Are you subscribed to the Council list?
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fippo
kev: yes
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bear
kev - any chance you can impart on me some magical mailing list properties so I can update them?
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Kev
I think I can fiddle access for myself to the Board list if you want to PM me a list of changes you want made.
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Kev
Ah, yes, yes I can.
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bear
need to add ralph, simon and laura to the list and remove the others
-
Kev
A little more specific would be good, please :)
-
bear
yep, working on it
-
Kev
I think email addresses look a bit like JIDs, if that helps :D
-
bear
:P
-
bear
ok, sent via PM
-
dwd
I think maybe I need adding, too. :-)
-
bear
pm kev your preferred address then
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bear
the list is just a quick way for me to email the board quickly - all real work happens on members@
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Kev
To be fair, what you're about to use Board for would better happen on members@ as well.
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bear
yep - it's one of the things I want to cover with this board - removing the board@ list :)
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fippo
right. one thing that I did not like about that last board was that bear was the only board member who posted to members@
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stpeter
phew, finally done with conference call, sorry about that!
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dwd
I wouldn't want to discuss potential sponsors on members@, to be honest, but pretty well anything else is fine there.
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SM
:-)
-
bear
to be fair, the amount of work the board did was very tiny last year
-
Kev
I gatecrash the first Board meeting of each term to complain about not using members@.
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Zash
So
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Kev
And have done for years.
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bear
why do you think it's on my list for this year :)
-
Kev
I believe that all outgoing Board have been removed, and all incoming Board added, leaving just new Board + Peter as members of the Board list.
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Kev
If folks could confirm they received the sub mail, that'd be grand.
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SM
So Dave gets to annoy stepeter?
-
dwd
R.
-
SM
That's not fair:)
-
Kev
I'm not entirely sure about the implication that this hasn't been happening for years :p
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dwd
SM, I would never annoy stpeter. We merely challenge each other's preconceptions from time to time, to the benefit of us both.
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bear
hmm, no email yet to bear@bear.im
-
Kev
Has anyone received the signup mail?
-
dwd
Kev, Yes. I said "R" and everything.
-
Kev
Is Bear's message showing in the archives?
-
Kev
I can look myself, naturally, but don't want to.
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bear
ah - it just showed up
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dwd
I got it, certainly.
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Kev
Excellent.
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SM
dwd, you mean about whether the earth is round?
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fippo
SM: did anyone say "thank you!" for starting the discussion yet? <3
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Kev
Ah, Lance does seem to be on council@, excellent.
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SM
fippo, don't blame me for that:)
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-
Kev
That uncomfortable moment when organisation of the new Council needs to be done, but Council doesn't have a Chair yet.
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dwd
Kev, You're still there, you're still Chair. :-)
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Kev
Lance: You received that mail? (i.e. it's the right address for you that's subscribed to council@)
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Lance
Kev: yes
-
Kev
Fab.
-
dwd
Kev, Just like I'm assuming Bear's the Chair until and unless we decide otherwise.
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Kev
Oh. And Chair sets the agenda for meetings.
-
Kev
So I don't need to bring up changing the Chair for as long as I'm voted onto Council? :D
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ralphm
sjeez, I step out for lunch and people are already calling me senile?
-
Kev
ralphm: Don't worry about it, you'll have forgotten in a moment :D
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ralphm
cool :-D
-
dwd
ralphm, Welcome to your retiement.
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ralphm
I'm pretty happy with these voting results.
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dwd
Retirement, even.
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ralphm
watch it, I might come out of it again
-
dwd
ralphm, Yes; though we were never going to get a bad board or council from the candidates we had.
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ralphm
indeed
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ralphm
bear: the mailinglist addition notification is dated a few hours into the future
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Kev
Oh, interesting.
-
Kev
The clock on atlas seems to be shot.
-
dwd
Clock or TZ?
-
dwd
Oh, clock, yes.
-
Kev
It thinks it's 01:31 tomorrow, UTC.
-
dwd
Well, we always claimed XMPP was the future.
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Kev
Except atlas is for email, which is certainly a dead-end historical thing.
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dwd
Right, nobody works on email anymore.
-
dwd
Aside from 40% of our Board.
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MattJ
I wish you hadn't said that
-
ralphm
Kev: what! E-mail is awesome
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dwd
Hey, email has 3.5 billion users. Our email experience will surely allow XMPP to beat that.
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ralphm
Let's do XMPP over pubsub over e-mail.
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Kev
I'd rather email over BOSH :)
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ralphm
:-D
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dwd
Hmmm.
-
dwd
BOSH is just MIME messages, I guess we could run it over mail just fine.
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stpeter
bbiab
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fippo
dwd: only with content-types? :-)
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MattJ
.
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dwd
Yeah; a way of signalling it's to be interpreted as BOSH would be useful. Maybe a Content-Disposition type?
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Kev
Other way around.
-
Kev
Email over BOSH.
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fippo
xmpp over email? hey, federation works well for email
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dwd
Harder. BOSH more or less requires an XML payload. I did wonder about doing IMAP over BOSH for webmail.
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Kev
Base64:D
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Kev
There are three types of problems in life. For things that move and shouldn't, gaffer tape; for things that don't move and should, WD40; for things that don't fit, Base64.
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Kev
I may have adapted that slightly.
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waqas
dwd: Regarding BOSH over email… WebRTC PeerConnection runs over SCTP over DTLS over UDP. We can replace UDP with email, and use Lance's websocket spec. It's a perfect fit.
-
waqas
This lets us run on top of any unreliable/unordered transport. Secure too!
-
dwd
Interesting, though I think directly running BOSH over mail should work better, if only because of the one-stanza-per-message rule that websocket has.
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dwd
We could use S/MIME for security. That's well implemented, after all.
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waqas
dwd: But you don't get all the SCTP magic that way. No multiplexed streams, etc.
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Lance
waqas: mime multipart?
-
waqas
Yes!
-
Kev
You are a terrible person.
-
waqas
But the IETF folks pushing for SCTP everywhere would be disappointed
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waqas
I prefer a PeerConnection like interface for it mainly for marketing purposes. MailRTC.
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bear
i smell an april 1st xep in the making
-
dwd
bear, You make it sound like we're not serious.
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Kev
I actually was serious about IMAP over BOS.
-
Kev
+H
-
bear
oh, I know all of you a bit too well to assume you couldn't make it work
-
waqas
bear: We have implementations for most april 1 xeps for Prosody. A full SCTP stack would be a bit painful to pull off on short notice ^^
-
bear
well, first you publish it, the you implement it
-
bear
so you have time
-
Lance
on the other hand waqas, a sctp stack would incidentally also be useful for future webrtc stuff as well
-
waqas
I think we implemented XEP-0295: JSON Encodings for XMPP before the XEP was published. The webchat on prosody.im is still using it.
-
dwd
Sctp in LUA? Whatever next...
-
waqas
People ask about it every now and then :)
-
waqas
Lance: I delegated looking at how much sctp is needed to darkrain, hopefully he'll report back
-
waqas
We are hoping it wont be a full stack
-
MattJ
!LUA
-
dwd
MattJ, Wrong chatroom.
-
MattJ
:/
-
bear
Lua is NOT LUA: http://www.lua.org/about.html#name
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waqas
bearbot...
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bear
HAL proxy
-
bear
i'm good for something at least
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dwd
Got to love KSP. "You take a sample of the water. It dramatically increases the surface humidity of anything it touches."
-
waqas
Unless it touches another body of water...
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dwd
waqas, Maybe I should file a bug report.
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