dwdAlex, What's the voting looking like, by the way? I'm assuming we have quorum, but what percentage turnout do we have?
Alex35 voters right now
Alexnot that bad, but we had better turnouts before
dwdI'm surprised; I thought with the candidates we have, plus the discussion beforehand, we'd have had more.
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Edwin MonsPerhaps some people find voting difficult when there's actual choice.
dwdWell, I can sympathize. I ended up voting twice, because I changed my mind about the right combination of candidates.
Alexthere are some members which don't care about whats going on in the XSF at all, maybe some are on holiday, some forget, and for some the choice is too hard ;-)
ZashSounds like every organisation ever :)
dwdAlex, How many members do we have now? 57 according to the list. So that's only a little over half actually voting.
Alexya, this list should be up to date:
http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-member-list/
Alexlast year 38 out of 52 voted:
http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/meeting-minutes/xsf-member-meeting-2012-10-30/
AlexI'll send out a last reminder
dwdWorth a try. We'll have to figure out some way of getting more involvement. Or losing members who have no interest.
SouLHow do you become a member?
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AlexSouL: we accept new members 4 times a year (quaterly)
see: http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Membership_Applications_Q3_2013
dwdSouL, You apply, then the existing members vote you in.
dwdSouL, Well, vote on whether to let you in.
Edwin MonsThat's more true than you can imagine ;)
dwdEdwin Mons, Yes, indeed...
Edwin MonsAnd the only thing you must do in return, is vote.
SouLHo-ho, great. Thanks for the link :D
Edwin MonsWhat you /should/ do in return, now that's open to debate.
dwd... which is why I get slightly annoyed by people not voting.
Edwin MonsAnd rightly so.
KevMaybe we should change memberbot to send you a message whenever you log in? )
Kev:)
ZashAnd spam invites to this room
dwdOr at least it could message everyone to let them know voting is open, and repeat that for non-voters periodically.
dwdZash, Yeah, I'd like that too.
AlexI don't think this will help. I think it will get even worse then
dwdAlex, We could also include voting records during member elections. :-)
Alexbecause people which don't care just say yes, yes, yes, yes to get the voting done
SouLleaves.
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dwdAlex, Yeah, that's true. Though the new memberbot does make that harder, and reduces the effect of it as well.
KevYes, the new memberbot seems a vast improvement for Council/Board elections.
KevMaybe we should do something similar for general elections.
Kev"Please enter the numbers of the candidates you want to accept as members"
dwdYeah, I'll need to update my voting bot.
Alex:D
Edwin Monsdwd: what algorithm do you use to decide on who to vote? sort on hash of jid?
ZashOr we could do like those game shows where you vote people out
KevPerhaps we could include the number of missed votes next to people's names :)
dwdEdwin Mons, You mean my voting bot? Don't you remember my membership application from a couple of years back?
dwdKev, Yeah, I think that should be done.
Edwin Monsdwd: you think we read those? We all use bots to do the voting.
dwdEdwin Mons, Or else just type "yes" a lot.
Zashyes | cli-xmpp memberbot@xmpp.org
Edwin Monsdwd, why do you think there's still no Wikipedia page on you? It's because we don't read the applications, so we don't know that it's your deepest desire.
dwdIt's not my deepest desire. I just happened to mention it once or twice.
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stpeterset the topic toXSF discussion room | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Annual Members Meeting 2013-10-29 @ 19:00 UTC
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stpetersigh, I have a conference call at 19:00 UTC :(
dwdstpeter, We're text only here, you can do both. ;-)
stpeteryep
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ralphm:-D
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bearwaves
ralphmhey bear
bearhow is life as a silicon valley coder treating you?
ralphmpretty good, actually
stpeterheh
KevDid you move, or are you a WAHer?
ralphmKev: just visiting :-D
stpeterunfortunately I really do need to pay close attention to this conference call I have 9 minutes from now :(
AlexKev: whats a WAHer?
KevWork At Home.
Alexaaaaah
beardoesn't Alex normally drive these meetings - as long as your lurking/attending I think your ok peter
stpeterbear: yes, Alex is in charge :-)
bear\o/
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Ashley WardHello all :)
bearhi ash
ZashHello
dwdEvening.
Alexwe will have fun today ;-)
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Alexlets start in 2 minutes
dwdAlex, You're saying that like it'll be a six-way tie.
bear:)
Alexok lets start
Alexbangs the gavel
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AlexHere is our Agenda for today:
http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/meeting-minutes/xsf-member-meeting-2013-10-29/
Alex1) Call for Quorum
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Alexas you can see 36 members voted via proxy (bot or email)
Alexwe have 57 members, so we already have a quorum
Alexagenda sais 52, will fix this later
Alex2) Items Subject to a Vote
AlexBoard and Council elections, you can see all applicants again here on the page:
http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2013
Alex3) Opportunity for XSF members to Vote in the Meeting
waqaso/
Alexanybody here who has not voted yet?
waqasI haven't
Alexgreat, so its upto you to fix the ties now ;-)
ralphmheh
dwdAlex, That's evil. :-)
ralphmno pressure whatsoever
bearhaha!
waqasShould I PM you the votes here? :)
Alexmemberbot should be still online
Alextry to vote with teh bot
waqask, voting now
ralphmwaiting…
fippopoked simon
Alex;-)
bearthis is when we need media events - so I can spam everyone with the Jeopardy "thinking" jingle
fippohe should appear in a moment
waqasDone
waqasAlex: ^
waqasI like the new memberbot 'UI' by the way
dwdLance did a good job there.
Alexok, have 37 votes now. I hope you fixed it ;-)
KevThe new memberbot is a vast improvement, kudos to Lance.
ralphmGo Lance!
Lancestill a few rough edges that i'll work on for the next round of elections
Alexya, lots of kudos to Lance
Alexso I start countin now, hold on
ralphmAlex: don't keep us waiting!
waqasLance: Bug report: the number 8 followed by ) turns into a smiley 8)
fippoit still needs more <3 ;-)
fippoalex: vote from simon incoming
Alexor is there anybody else who wants to vote?
AlexSimon should join the meeting then
Alexor is he here?
ralphmno
Alextell hom to join the room, then we can record the votes
Ashley WardHe says he's just voting.
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ralphmSimon: no pressure, but eh, we're waiting
Alexhi Simon
SimonHello.
AlexSImon when you want to vote then you can do it bow
Alex2 more minutes ;-)
Alexmemberbot is still online
Simonvoted.
Simon:)
AlexOK, have votes from Simon now
Simonaparently I can vote for myself. Awesome!
Alexnow voting is closed
KevI hope you didn't vote for any Board members who couldn't complete membership votes on time.
Ashley Ward:)
bearchuckles
Simonvoting kickbacks can be delivered to the following bitcoin address….
Alexok, counting
bearawww shucks, I should have added a "tip" link to my wiki bio...
Alex4) Announcement of Voting Results
AlexI update the page later and anounce the results here this time
Alexif you want to :D
dwdI'll stop hitting refresh then.
Alex
NAME YES NO TOTAL %
Council:
========
Matthew Wild 38 0 38 100
Lance Stout 34 4 38 89,47
Kevin Smith 32 6 38 84,21
Tobias Markmann 26 12 38 68,42
Philipp Hancke 24 14 38 63,16
Ralph Meijer 23 15 38 60,53
Peter Waher 13 25 38 34,21
Board:
======
Dave Cridland 35 3 38 92,11
Ralph Meijer 33 5 38 86,84
Laura Gill 33 5 38 86,84
Mike Taylor 30 8 38 78,95
Simon Tennant 24 14 38 63,16
Arc Riley 15 23 38 39,47
S. Moonesamy 11 27 38 28,95
Ashley Ward 9 29 38 23,68
Alexcan you read the table?
KevYes.
Alexok, its ordered
SimonWhat's the purpose of a no vote?
AlexI think we have no tie, but it was very close
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KevSimon: No just means that they weren't one of the five, I believe.
Simonright.
Kevi.e. Everyone voted for MattJ, 6 people didn't vote for me.
Alexso board 2013/2014 Matt, Lance, Kev, Tobias and Philipp
dwdWell, congratulations to the new Council and my fellow Board members!
Alexeh, council
Alexand board Dave, Ralph, Laura, Bear and Simon
Alexcongrats to everybody
ZashCongrats!
SouLYees congratulations!
Ashley WardGood choices.
AlexRalph is switching positions ;-)
SimonXMPP. Now with 200% more web in 2014.
bear;0
m&mheh
bearoops - meant that to be :)
m&msure ...
Alex5) Any Other Business?
KevNone here.
remkoso, basically, mattJ voted for himself
Lanceremko: peer pressure. everyone else did :p
remkowhich is the only vote we know for sure
Alex:D
remkoLance: :)
Alex6) Formal Adjournment
MattJI caved in
AlexI motion that we adjourn
KevAlex: Secound.
Kev-u
m&msecond
Alexbangs the gavel
Alexthanks everybody
KevThanks for looking after the XSF yet again Alex :)
remkoso, board + council are buying drinks then?
dwdThanks, Alex.
bearafter the vote has been announced to the list and the new board members added to that mailing list, I'll post a notice to figure out the first board meeting
bearthanks Alex!
Simonreminds people to consider signing up to https://github.com/stpeter/manifesto
bearyes ^^^
AlexI update the wegpage now, once its done I send out the results to the list
MattJFWIW I think it's weird that memberbot even lets you vote for yourself (the same is true of member acceptance iirc)
bearI won't get to the board email until later - I have a meeting and lunch to attend to
MattJI guess it makes more sense for council/board
Ashley WardIt wouldn't let me vote for myself (although I still would have come last even if it had!)
remkoMattJ: it's ok matt, you don't have to apoligize :)
AlexLOL
remko*apologize*
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KevMattJ: I don't see a problem with this.
m&mmost of us aren't judging you (-:
MattJKev, for membership I think it's weird
KevAh, for membership, yes.
KevFor Board/Council, not so much.
AlexI don't see one other, its the same in politics
MattJIf you apply, you somewhat imply you want to be accepted
MattJI agree it's slightly different for our council/board election model, where you just select your dream council/board
bears/dream/nightmare/ ? ;)
MattJScaffolding, or whatever stpeter likes to call the XSF :)
bearThanks everyone for attending
bearwanders off to another meeting
Alexpage is updated:
http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/meeting-minutes/xsf-member-meeting-2013-10-29/
KevI wonder if I have magic powers to fix the council@ list.
Alexplease check
MattJInteresting about ralphm
KevI think Ralph has a very strong claim to a place on Board. He's been Mr. FOSDEM since forever.
MattJSame thing happened to Jack Moffitt the year he applied for both council and board
MattJMaybe the members consider it a promotion, and don't think you can do both jobs at once :)
KevAnd yeah, I'm not convinced being on both Council/Board is a good thing.
MattJ(which may well be true)
fippoisn't it the first step to retirement? *duck and run*
SMsenility?
AlexI agree, which is the reason why I voted him in one position only
Alexsorry ralphm ;-)
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SMHow come nobody created a page for dwd?
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bearit's up to dave to create a page for dave
SMOn Wikipedia
bearwikipedia?
ZashCan't create your own page on WP!
SMYes, old joke from yesterday
KevZash: Can't create your own page on wordpress?
SM:-)
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fippoalex: i don't think simon has a jid in the .xml tld @ minutes ;-)
dwdBest change that before ICANN send him a bill.
Zash!
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KevLance / fippo: Are you subscribed to the Council list?
fippokev: yes
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bearkev - any chance you can impart on me some magical mailing list properties so I can update them?
KevI think I can fiddle access for myself to the Board list if you want to PM me a list of changes you want made.
KevAh, yes, yes I can.
bearneed to add ralph, simon and laura to the list and remove the others
KevA little more specific would be good, please :)
bearyep, working on it
KevI think email addresses look a bit like JIDs, if that helps :D
bear:P
bearok, sent via PM
dwdI think maybe I need adding, too. :-)
bearpm kev your preferred address then
bearthe list is just a quick way for me to email the board quickly - all real work happens on members@
KevTo be fair, what you're about to use Board for would better happen on members@ as well.
bearyep - it's one of the things I want to cover with this board - removing the board@ list :)
fipporight. one thing that I did not like about that last board was that bear was the only board member who posted to members@
stpeterphew, finally done with conference call, sorry about that!
dwdI wouldn't want to discuss potential sponsors on members@, to be honest, but pretty well anything else is fine there.
SM:-)
bearto be fair, the amount of work the board did was very tiny last year
KevI gatecrash the first Board meeting of each term to complain about not using members@.
ZashSo
KevAnd have done for years.
bearwhy do you think it's on my list for this year :)
KevI believe that all outgoing Board have been removed, and all incoming Board added, leaving just new Board + Peter as members of the Board list.
bearthanks Kev
KevIf folks could confirm they received the sub mail, that'd be grand.
SMSo Dave gets to annoy stepeter?
dwdR.
SMThat's not fair:)
KevI'm not entirely sure about the implication that this hasn't been happening for years :p
dwdSM, I would never annoy stpeter. We merely challenge each other's preconceptions from time to time, to the benefit of us both.
bearhmm, no email yet to bear@bear.im
KevHas anyone received the signup mail?
dwdKev, Yes. I said "R" and everything.
KevIs Bear's message showing in the archives?
KevI can look myself, naturally, but don't want to.
bearah - it just showed up
dwdI got it, certainly.
KevExcellent.
SMdwd, you mean about whether the earth is round?
fippoSM: did anyone say "thank you!" for starting the discussion yet? <3
KevAh, Lance does seem to be on council@, excellent.
SMfippo, don't blame me for that:)
bearheads out for lunch
KevThat uncomfortable moment when organisation of the new Council needs to be done, but Council doesn't have a Chair yet.
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dwdKev, You're still there, you're still Chair. :-)
KevLance: You received that mail? (i.e. it's the right address for you that's subscribed to council@)
LanceKev: yes
KevFab.
dwdKev, Just like I'm assuming Bear's the Chair until and unless we decide otherwise.
KevOh. And Chair sets the agenda for meetings.
KevSo I don't need to bring up changing the Chair for as long as I'm voted onto Council? :D
ralphmsjeez, I step out for lunch and people are already calling me senile?
Kevralphm: Don't worry about it, you'll have forgotten in a moment :D
ralphmcool :-D
dwdralphm, Welcome to your retiement.
ralphmI'm pretty happy with these voting results.
dwdRetirement, even.
ralphmwatch it, I might come out of it again
dwdralphm, Yes; though we were never going to get a bad board or council from the candidates we had.
ralphmindeed
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ralphmbear: the mailinglist addition notification is dated a few hours into the future
KevOh, interesting.
KevThe clock on atlas seems to be shot.
dwdClock or TZ?
dwdOh, clock, yes.
KevIt thinks it's 01:31 tomorrow, UTC.
dwdWell, we always claimed XMPP was the future.
KevExcept atlas is for email, which is certainly a dead-end historical thing.
dwdRight, nobody works on email anymore.
dwdAside from 40% of our Board.
MattJI wish you hadn't said that
ralphmKev: what! E-mail is awesome
dwdHey, email has 3.5 billion users. Our email experience will surely allow XMPP to beat that.
ralphmLet's do XMPP over pubsub over e-mail.
KevI'd rather email over BOSH :)
ralphm:-D
dwdHmmm.
dwdBOSH is just MIME messages, I guess we could run it over mail just fine.
stpeterbbiab
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fippodwd: only with content-types? :-)
MattJ.
dwdYeah; a way of signalling it's to be interpreted as BOSH would be useful. Maybe a Content-Disposition type?
KevOther way around.
KevEmail over BOSH.
fippoxmpp over email? hey, federation works well for email
dwdHarder. BOSH more or less requires an XML payload. I did wonder about doing IMAP over BOSH for webmail.
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KevBase64:D
KevThere are three types of problems in life. For things that move and shouldn't, gaffer tape; for things that don't move and should, WD40; for things that don't fit, Base64.
KevI may have adapted that slightly.
waqasdwd: Regarding BOSH over email… WebRTC PeerConnection runs over SCTP over DTLS over UDP. We can replace UDP with email, and use Lance's websocket spec. It's a perfect fit.
waqasThis lets us run on top of any unreliable/unordered transport. Secure too!
dwdInteresting, though I think directly running BOSH over mail should work better, if only because of the one-stanza-per-message rule that websocket has.
dwdWe could use S/MIME for security. That's well implemented, after all.
waqasdwd: But you don't get all the SCTP magic that way. No multiplexed streams, etc.
Lancewaqas: mime multipart?
waqasYes!
KevYou are a terrible person.
waqasBut the IETF folks pushing for SCTP everywhere would be disappointed
waqasI prefer a PeerConnection like interface for it mainly for marketing purposes. MailRTC.
beari smell an april 1st xep in the making
dwdbear, You make it sound like we're not serious.
KevI actually was serious about IMAP over BOS.
Kev+H
bearoh, I know all of you a bit too well to assume you couldn't make it work
waqasbear: We have implementations for most april 1 xeps for Prosody. A full SCTP stack would be a bit painful to pull off on short notice ^^
bearwell, first you publish it, the you implement it
bearso you have time
Lanceon the other hand waqas, a sctp stack would incidentally also be useful for future webrtc stuff as well
waqasI think we implemented XEP-0295: JSON Encodings for XMPP before the XEP was published. The webchat on prosody.im is still using it.
dwdSctp in LUA? Whatever next...
waqasPeople ask about it every now and then :)
waqasLance: I delegated looking at how much sctp is needed to darkrain, hopefully he'll report back
waqasWe are hoping it wont be a full stack
MattJ!LUA
dwdMattJ, Wrong chatroom.
MattJ:/
bear Lua is NOT LUA: http://www.lua.org/about.html#name
waqasbearbot...
bearHAL proxy
beari'm good for something at least
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dwdGot to love KSP. "You take a sample of the water. It dramatically increases the surface humidity of anything it touches."
XSF Discussion - 2013-10-29