XSF Discussion - 2013-11-06

  1. bear

    hello folks - power was out at the house, did I miss anything?

  2. bear

    ah, council is still meeting, then i'm actually early

  3. ralphm


  4. bear


  5. bear

    I don't see dave, laura or simon yet

  6. ralphm

    I invited dwd, but not seeing him yet

  7. bear

    we can wait a bit, the council meeting just ended

  8. bear

    (yes, i know that fact has nothing to do with the question of where are the others)

  9. ralphm


  10. Lloyd

    Hi all, laura.gill@surevine.com sends her apologies, she's stuck in a meeting she can't get out of right now.

  11. Kev

    Did this go out to members, BTW? (In which case I missed it and I suck)

  12. ralphm

    Lloyd: good first impressions :-P

  13. ralphm

    Kev: from my cursory look, we didn't announce the board meeting on the members list

  14. bear

    kev - I *thought* I sent it out to members list, but it could be I also suck

  15. Lloyd

    I'm not sure she was aware, I hadn't seen any notice go out - although I'm not aware of how council alerts go out.

  16. Kev

    Lloyd: Or Board, which this is.

  17. bear

    I sent emails to each board member and also to board@

  18. Lloyd

    Yeah that too :S

  19. ralphm

    bear: yeah, board members should know about the meeting

  20. bear

    we only have 2 out of 5 with apologies for 1 so far

  21. Edwin Mons

    How would we know when to flee out of the room if the meeting isn't announced to members?

  22. ralphm set the topic to

    XSF discussion room | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/

  23. ralphm

    Edwin Mons: I assume because the Chairman will bang the gavel.

  24. Edwin Mons

    You need to elect one first ;)

  25. bear

    i'll give them 5 more minutes

  26. Kev

    Edwin Mons: I think in the members meeting there was some discussion, and no-one disagreed that old chairs remained chair until new chairs were elected.

  27. ralphm

    Edwin Mons: no, bear is still chair, even if he hadn't been elected

  28. Kev

    Which makes sense, as otherwise there's no-one to run the first meeting.

  29. bear

    until the new board meets and accepts the results IIRC

  30. Kev

    Assuming, that is, that there /is/ a first quorate meeting.

  31. bear

    that is the crux of our current situation

  32. Edwin Mons

    Kev: good point

  33. Edwin Mons

    I assume you need 50% for quorum?

  34. ralphm

    FWIW, the XMPP calendar doesn't reflect the date for this meeting.

  35. Kev

    Edwin Mons: Whether it's 50% or majority is largely irrelevant with odd numbers, and I forget which it is.

  36. bear

    I don't have the bylaws memorized, but it's 3 out of 5

  37. bear

    which satisfies 50% 60% and simple majority

  38. ralphm

    by laws say 'majority'

  39. bear

    ralphm - i'm getting calendar alerts for today's meeting, so it's on one of the calendars

  40. bear

    it's all bike shedding to be blunt as they are not present

  41. ralphm

    bear: interesting

  42. bear

    so I will send an email to members@, board@ and them directly to suggest a meeting friday, or anytime next week

  43. bear

    I will be lurking here for another 15 or so minutes in case one of them shows up

  44. ralphm

    bear: I was just looking at the ics files for -board and -all, no mention.

  45. bear

    then i'm being haunted by the ghost of the last board I guess

  46. stpeter

    we definitely need better calendar management and notifications

  47. ralphm

    I could do friday, probably, but I'd rather not change the date and time

  48. stpeter

    there's always next Wednesday

  49. ralphm


  50. stpeter

    (although I'll be on a plane then)

  51. ralphm

    in-flight wifi?

  52. ralphm


  53. bear

    the first meeting is normally restricted to 1) accepting results and 2) electing chair

  54. bear

    so it will be a fast one

  55. bear goes to write that email

  56. ralphm

    bear: yeah, let's put out an e-mail with a proposed agenda. It might also be useful to have a chat on the Board's priorities for this term.

  57. Kev

    And can this happen on members@, please?

  58. Edwin Mons


  59. ralphm

    Kev: sure

  60. Kev

    Thank you

  61. ralphm


  62. ralphm


  63. Simon

    sorry everyone - wasn't aware that a date had been set.

  64. Simon


  65. bear

    email sent

  66. ralphm

    bear sent out an e-mail on 2013-10-30 13:39 -0400 on this

  67. bear

    oh sure, I just press the "send" button and *now* we get a quorum :)

  68. Lloyd


  69. ralphm

    don't leave!

  70. Kev

    I think the meeting was effectively abandoned long ago.

  71. ralphm

    Kev: who are you to judge that :-P

  72. Kev

    ralphm: I'm the only person who can judge it.

  73. ralphm


  74. bear

    simon - I just sent out an email with details for the next meeting

  75. Simon

    is the calendar feed still being updated / who maintains it? Could we add a board meeting event in there?

  76. Kev

    Yeah, I'm waiting for that one to come through - is my mail being slow, or did it not go to members? :)

  77. ralphm

    Simon: this was a thing we discussed earlier, yes

  78. Edwin Mons

    Kev: I just received it.

  79. Kev


  80. Simon

    great. What's the usual frequency of board meetings?

  81. bear

    if we have things to do, bi-weekly, but not very often

  82. Kev

    I'd suggest you adopt Council+20, personally.

  83. ralphm


  84. Simon

    you mean fortnightly ;)

  85. ralphm

    Kev: I'd like that, indeed

  86. Kev

    Because I think having regular meetings creates some sort of impetus to do stuff.

  87. bear

    tradition has it that they are just after the council meeting and that the time is limited to 30 minutes to help focus people

  88. Simon

    +1 for regular set time and repeats.

  89. bear

    so unless one of the new board folk has a real problem with our current schedule, it probably won't change

  90. ralphm

    I'd like to have it occur on the calendar every week.

  91. ralphm

    Because it makes it easier for people to make it a habit of showing up.

  92. bear

    once we decide next week, it will be

  93. Simon

    yes - same day and time every two weeks. Much easier!

  94. bear

    simon, ralph - please do respond to the email with your +1 or whatever about the current timing

  95. bear

    that will make the first meeting even faster

  96. bear switches to lurk mode

  97. bear

    ralph - your question about discussing the board's priorities is kinda easy

  98. bear

    the board can only respond,work,deal with items that the members want to do

  99. Kev

    Interesting. I've received Ralph's reply to Bear's mail, but not Bear's mail.

  100. ralphm

    Kev: maybe be spam because it was signed by a bear

  101. Kev

    I don't /think/ I've set up any special MTA rules to blackhole bear :)

  102. bear


  103. Kev

    bear: I think that's a bit of a cop-out answer, sorry. People don't have to /want/ to do stuff to get stuff done. What needs doing is the important question.

  104. ralphm

    bear: While I agree on that on a strict basis, any board can develop a policy that it subjects to its membership

  105. bear

    it's a small difference in what you both are saying and me - the difference being that this policy discussion should just be amongst members

  106. Kev

    Yeah, I think that's a cop-out.

  107. bear


  108. Kev

    I think Board need to work out what needs to be done, and plans to do it.

  109. ralphm

    bear: I agree, but again believe that a Board can spearhead any such discussion.

  110. Kev

    Yes, they should not act against members' wishes, but the point of the Board is to provide steering.

  111. ralphm

    suggest things and then discuss it with the membership

  112. Kev

    ^ this

  113. bear

    then i'll be happy to be wrong :)

  114. bear

    but even "wrong" isn't the proper word

  115. bear

    i'll be happy to be busily dealing with an active board

  116. Kev

    Oh, I think it's the perfect word for anyone with a different opinion to mine :D

  117. ralphm

    Proactive is my word of choice here.

  118. ralphm

    And with that, I'm proactively going to have dinner.

  119. bear


  120. Kev


  121. stpeter

    BTW I am paying attention to the IETF technical plenary

  122. Edwin Mons

    ralphm: enjoy

  123. stpeter

    http://ietf88streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf889.m3u in case you want to listen (not sure if the video is working at http://www.ietf.org/live/ )

  124. ralphm

    video works for me

  125. stpeter

    the topic is pervasive surveillance

  126. stpeter

    BTW the manifesto went over well when I talked about it on Monday, although of course this is the IETF so some people had objections

  127. bear

    video is not working for me but audio is

  128. Simon

    as long as we don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good

  129. Kev

    stpeter: I think knowing what the objections are would be interesting.

  130. stpeter

    "flag days are bad" was one of them

  131. stpeter

    "you'll fail" was another

  132. Simon

    I wonder who works in the Crazy-Code-Names department at the NSA?

  133. bear is happy now, video is working

  134. Simon

    Who is speaking?

  135. stpeter

    Bruce Schneier

  136. Simon

    Wow. Nice.

  137. bear

    hmm, text is very timely, audio is lagged by about a minute but wow, video is lagged by about 2 minutes

  138. fippo

    http://vancouver.conf.meetecho.com/WebLite/event.jsp?w=plenary might provide an alternative if youtube doesn't work

  139. Edwin Mons

    video is fine here.

  140. stpeter

    ok, I said my piece

  141. ralphm

    stpeter: was good!

  142. bear cheers

  143. stpeter