XSF Discussion - 2013-11-13

alex: any reason membership voting hasn't started yet?

i'm somewhat worried that florian hasn't reapplied...

its delayed becasue of the Wiki problems we had. I have contacted the members which have not reapplied yet, so hopefully we can start voting soon.

ah, ok. thanks

https://blog.andyet.com/2013/11/12/why-wont-we-put-on-another-realtimeconf -- those &yets are manipulating the xmpp community

it would have probably been easier to just send pie

I'm presuming the next board meeting is next week? Who can update the calendar?

Is this the right link: http://xmpp.org/calendar/xsf-all.ics ?

isn't it today?

i know there is no council today...

I would like to meet next Wednesday, 13 November 2013 at 1630 UTC (which is 1130 EST, 0930 MST, 0830 PST)

yep

Just checking following messages above, is the Board meeting today or next week?

today

Thank you

Both, possibly. :-)

Who is running the meeting today?

I was just about to ask the same thing, and is it happening here?

Well, usually it would be bear

Since he is our Chair.

Can someone else run it - I think we have a basic agenda

1. accept the results of the yearly meeting 2. nominate and elect the board chairperson 3. decide on the next meeting

Without knowing if Mike is standing, I don't think we can do much.

As this is my first ever meeting, I am going to suggest I am not the best person to chair today

heh - Laura - I wanted to chat with you afterwards since Bear and Peter and myself have been starting to work on the text for a new revamped XMPP website and it would be good to have your input too.

Sounds interesting

although I'm unable to send you messages right now.

laura.gill@surevine.com ?

in XMPP land?

That's me

Right - in the absence of Mike, I think we can probably manage items (1) and (3) at least, and also accept nominations for Chair even if we can't realistically elect one.

So to get the rubber-stamp item out of the way first, do we accept the results of the Annual General Meeting of the XMPP Standards Foundation?

+1 to accept results. And propose that we hold the next meeting in a week if we can't do a proper one today.

Simon, One thing at a time. :-P

0. Open the meeting. dwd is chairing this meeting. :-D

ralphm, Laura - are you both happy to accept the results (which I can dig out for you if you've not got the document to hand).

+1

Don't feel able to accept the results of the Annual General meeting (as I haven't seen them) but this may not be needed by me?

ralphm, Ah, sorry. I've staged a coup for the duration of this meeting. ;-)

dwd: that's fine

Laura, It's largely a formality. And you're able to abstain, it'll still carry.

Great

Would be interested to read them though (please)

One second.

http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/meeting-minutes/xsf-member-meeting-2013-10-29/

ralphm, Thanks.

Thank you

FWIW, I vote to accept them.

Laura, Would you like a minute or two to read them, or are you still abstaining?

*reading now*

+1

Thanks.

So, as I say, in the absence of Mike I'm hesitant to do (2), but if there are people who are keen to stand they can make themselves known.

I should point out for the "spectators" that there is, as far as I can tell, no requirement for the Chair to actually be a voting member of the Board.

Happy to agree to postpone that decision until the next meeting?

Though you might want to double-check that in the Bylaws. :-)

Well, as it is, we can postpone this item as the current Chair is on the Board anyway.

I motion we do so.

I'm happy to postpone. I'd rather know what Mike's intent is here before deciding what to do.

indeed

Oh, wait, you motioned. I shall second, then.

I concur.

OK.

So item (3), which is the next meeting.

wait

Oh?

or can we do additional things after that item

?

Oh, we should have an AOB at the end. COnsider that as (4).

Cool

I also have AOB. Possibly the same AOB, actually.

In that case. +1W

Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel?

right

I think we should keep this timeslot open every week

Yes, makes sense if it works for us. If it's awkward for Mike, though, we should move it.

sure

Laura, Simon - this time/day work for you guys?

yeah - works for me.

Works for me.

OK.

Although, I would like us to consider a video meeting at some point, when there is bigger things to discuss than the next meeting

*opens another can of worms*

Yeah, we should consider some logistics for that. It'd be nice to have a Jingle meeting, but we need a protocol written...

So, ralphm - you had some AOB?

Was it FOSDEM? :-)

Sure, I do these things all the time. Over Hangouts.

dwd: it wasn't FOSDEM

so go ahead

I also use hangouts

Ah, OK. No, you go first.

Sorry, fo ahead with AOB

I'd like to discuss what we want to do this term.

Right. So just a small topic, then?

In the discussions leading up to the Member's meeting, as well as during the XMPP Summit, many things have been suggested as things the XSF could, should or ought to do.

How does a conversation like that happen on here?

Let's think about this some more and have that discussion in a (near) future meeting.

Laura: by typing, I guess.

Actually declaring a meeting specifically for this purpose (say, the one after next) might make the most sense.

Since then interested members can also show up and suggest ideas.

Maybe that conversation (as bound to be more complex) could be a tester for video meeting?

I hear fippo is the video guy. :)

We also briefly talked about this in last week's non-meeting, and there were some different opinions on what a/the board should do in general. Only react on what members request v.s. lead by proposing things.

I think that some of both is required - we should be proposing things, and pushing the membership - raising the bar, as it were.

We should examine the XMPP charter to see what it says we should do. Or?

Although I do a lot of video conferences, I think it is not a great medium for discussion.

But we also all wrote manifestos and should see what kind of commonality there is there and work towards that.

I disagree. As I am part of a distributed company, this is how I work every day and its a great way to get meetings done and decisions made

IMHO it wouldn't hurt to jointly agree on what the XSF is here for and make sure our decisions work towards that end.

Laura, Yes, but it only works for open discussion in a relatively small group.

Simon, Yes - I'm tempted to suggest we should actually work on getting a mission statement for the XSF together.

dwd - yeah something like that.

Simon, Though I don't really like mission statements as a rule, I think in this case a single statement saying "This is what the XSF does" makes sense.

Laura: also, I don't know about Surevine, but the XSF has members from many different countries, where English is not the native language. Typing makes things easier for some people.

I see.

I wondered if a video call for a discussion on bigger topics, with a blog summary post might be useful?

Laura, I'm all in favour of audio/video chats for focussed discussions within a smaller group, mind.

i'm working on the video stuff ;-)

indeed, but if you want to give voice to the membership, I am inclined to say, just use a groupchat

This has worked for this community since before its inception.

Right - aside from anything else, you get higher bandwidth with a text chat amongst that many people - nobody gets shut out of the conversation, they all can type at once.

As I said, it as just an idea. I just haven't been part of a meeting this way before so was just suggesting

Laura: I shall have Lloyd train you then :-D

ralphm: that could be dangerous, he'll show the the jingle-capable xmpp-ftw ;-)

fippo: there is a record of him taking suggestions from me. We'll see.

ok, as there seems to be some consensus, I'm good with my AOB

So, as a concrete motion, shall we hold a meeting specifically on the topic of "What should the XSF do this year" in two weeks?

+1

+1

+1. But could we not do it next week?

Either is fine for me though - just keen to get things rolling

Simon, We could; I figured we'd want to get some of the paperwork (like electing Chairs, and possibly confirming the contiuing appointments of Alex and Peter) out of the way.

dwd: agreed

Plus if we're inviting the members, we probably want to give a bit more notice.

dwd: that's actually in our by laws (section 3.4, 10 days)

OK. One more for the AOB - we need to start considering the XSFs activity in FOSDEM.

indeed

There has been no confirmation of our booth, yet.

ok - so will someone update the calendar (or we move to a shared G calendar?)

ralphm, OK. Do you know when we'll find out?

The date for this is 15 December

Simon, I'll get the calendar sorted.

Thanks DWD

Which is pretty short notice.

So I think we have to start plan for the Summit

and then have the booth sorted out later

ralphm, Right - unfortunately the Summit is probably the one that'll take less time.

Well, we could plan things under the assumption that we'll have the same arrangement as last year.

ralphm, Yeah, my concern is that if we look at buying in promo gear again, we can't commit until the 15th.

As some of us have discussed at RealtimeWeek, we'd like to make it somewhat better organised as a minimum.

ralphm, But we can get quotes, do the designs, etc.

dwd: true

ralphm, Two years ago, I think we formed a formal Work Team to arrange the FOSDEM/Summit stuff - mostly focuessed on FOSDEM.

I remember that - worked very well

ralphm, That was the first year we managed the Realtime Lounge. We could spin that up again, if that'd help?

ralphm, I'm sort of assuming you'll be leading this, since you're normally our ambassador to FOSDEM as it were.

Since our thing at FOSDEM has been called the Realtime Lounge for a few years, and discussed this with some people, we can get some help from the &yet guys regarding the branding and possibly more.

dwd: sure

One of the foremost issues are:

ralphm, Why don't you start assembling a team. We'll need to figure out what budget we can run to, but I'd hope we could recoup most of the cost by promo stuff as usual.

1) Organizing demos

2) getting gear there

Suggestion: someone draft the tasks that need to be done, and at the next meeting let's assign them out?

Laura: are you suggesting to make this a Board activity?

Is it not a Board activity? Or at least need Board input?

ralphm, Board-managed at least, I'd have thought.

dwd: right

ralphm, Hopefully we can get several members to help, though.

I agree

ralphm, I'm hoping Florian will lend us a hand as usual, for a start.

Laura: I guess this ties in with the level of involvement of the Board in general. But yeah, it would be great to have more of that in this case.

dwd: indeed. Although he doesn't seem to have reapplied for membership

But anyway - let's consider returning next week and figure out what's needed, as Laura says.

I'd be happy to head this, though

ralphm, I'll threaten to out him to the Heathrow security staff if he doesn't help out. ;-)

hah

ralphm, I'm happy to help in whatever way I can, of course.

as for the Summit, we can draft a call b

for participation

I might be able to track him down… he is often kicking around in the coffee shop in my building

when he's not partying, I'm sure

Oh, I assumed your office was too up-market to let him in...

*burn*

Like, I said, he hangs in the basement :)

OK - I'm good with this, unless anyone else has anythign to add?

btw @ florian... can someone specifically poke him to reapply for membership? :-)

Happy to wrap up there

I will take that action

I am seeing him in a few weeks anyway for the XMPP meetup I am hosting

Details about to be announced

Laura: he needs to apply today, basically

Cool.

Ahh. Tweeting him now

Laura: when will this be?

(the meetup)

any other any other business?

I'm good. We can adjourn.

Edwin, will send you details but Monday 2nd Dec

(Not that we all need to run away)

admin: go and reapply now!

ralphm :)

OK, I'll formally call this meeting to a close.

Thanks all!

Thanks!

dwd: are you writing some minutes?

Done.

And sent.

Wrote them as we went, it seemed easier.

Teach Kev that trick :)

haha

MattJ, Kev is *way* more organized than I am about these things.

Kev kept word about heckling. Much appreciated. Don't tempt him now.

Heh

:p

ralphm, We could always vote Kev as Board Chair, too. As I say, he doesn't actually need to be on the Board for us to do so.

heh

ralphm, Then he;d have all the minutes to write up...

I used to write minutes to meetings before I'd attended the meetings, for my day job (before Isode).

dwd: It seems that formally, our Secretary should do that in our case.

Can someone do the calgen.py thing? I've updated the events.xml.

bah

bear: yay timezones!

phone failure so I completely did not get my reminder

did I miss it?

dave already sent the minutes

k

bear: yeah, we started about an hour ago

don't see any emails

bear: I'd celebrate today.

I see hundreds of them

:P

I meant for the board meeting

bear: the meeting notes were sent to the members' list

yes - figures as soon as I type "no, don't have it" my mailbox dings

it's going to be a good day :/

bear: good luck

Lance, Hmm. Your server still doesn't like my certificate.

The dsfjdssdfsd list provides a venue for discussion of randomness in IETF protocols, for example related to updating RFC 4086.

Awesome list name.

nice

their RNG appears to be biased

Seems left-handed, possibly.