XSF Discussion - 2013-11-13

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  15. fippo

    alex: any reason membership voting hasn't started yet?

  16. fippo

    i'm somewhat worried that florian hasn't reapplied...

  17. Alex

    its delayed becasue of the Wiki problems we had. I have contacted the members which have not reapplied yet, so hopefully we can start voting soon.

  18. fippo

    ah, ok. thanks

  19. fippo

    https://blog.andyet.com/2013/11/12/why-wont-we-put-on-another-realtimeconf -- those &yets are manipulating the xmpp community

  20. fippo likes being manipulated in that way

  21. fippo

    it would have probably been easier to just send pie

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  23. Simon

    I'm presuming the next board meeting is next week? Who can update the calendar?

  24. Simon

    Is this the right link: http://xmpp.org/calendar/xsf-all.ics ?

  25. fippo

    isn't it today?

  26. fippo

    i know there is no council today...

  27. Simon

    I would like to meet next Wednesday, 13 November 2013 at 1630 UTC (which is 1130 EST, 0930 MST, 0830 PST)

  28. Simon


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  82. Laura

    Just checking following messages above, is the Board meeting today or next week?

  83. Simon


  84. Laura

    Thank you

  85. dwd

    Both, possibly. :-)

  86. Simon

    Who is running the meeting today?

  87. Laura

    I was just about to ask the same thing, and is it happening here?

  88. ralphm

    Well, usually it would be bear

  89. ralphm

    Since he is our Chair.

  90. Simon

    Can someone else run it - I think we have a basic agenda

  91. Simon

    1. accept the results of the yearly meeting 2. nominate and elect the board chairperson 3. decide on the next meeting

  92. dwd

    Without knowing if Mike is standing, I don't think we can do much.

  93. Laura

    As this is my first ever meeting, I am going to suggest I am not the best person to chair today

  94. Simon

    heh - Laura - I wanted to chat with you afterwards since Bear and Peter and myself have been starting to work on the text for a new revamped XMPP website and it would be good to have your input too.

  95. Laura

    Sounds interesting

  96. Simon

    although I'm unable to send you messages right now.

  97. Simon

    laura.gill@surevine.com ?

  98. Simon

    in XMPP land?

  99. Laura

    That's me

  100. dwd

    Right - in the absence of Mike, I think we can probably manage items (1) and (3) at least, and also accept nominations for Chair even if we can't realistically elect one.

  101. dwd

    So to get the rubber-stamp item out of the way first, do we accept the results of the Annual General Meeting of the XMPP Standards Foundation?

  102. Simon

    +1 to accept results. And propose that we hold the next meeting in a week if we can't do a proper one today.

  103. dwd

    Simon, One thing at a time. :-P

  104. Simon is multi-threading.

  105. ralphm

    0. Open the meeting. dwd is chairing this meeting. :-D

  106. dwd

    ralphm, Laura - are you both happy to accept the results (which I can dig out for you if you've not got the document to hand).

  107. ralphm


  108. Laura

    Don't feel able to accept the results of the Annual General meeting (as I haven't seen them) but this may not be needed by me?

  109. dwd

    ralphm, Ah, sorry. I've staged a coup for the duration of this meeting. ;-)

  110. ralphm

    dwd: that's fine

  111. dwd

    Laura, It's largely a formality. And you're able to abstain, it'll still carry.

  112. Laura


  113. Laura

    Would be interested to read them though (please)

  114. dwd

    One second.

  115. ralphm


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  118. dwd

    ralphm, Thanks.

  119. Laura

    Thank you

  120. dwd

    FWIW, I vote to accept them.

  121. dwd

    Laura, Would you like a minute or two to read them, or are you still abstaining?

  122. Laura

    *reading now*

  123. Laura


  124. ralphm cheers

  125. dwd


  126. dwd

    So, as I say, in the absence of Mike I'm hesitant to do (2), but if there are people who are keen to stand they can make themselves known.

  127. dwd

    I should point out for the "spectators" that there is, as far as I can tell, no requirement for the Chair to actually be a voting member of the Board.

  128. Laura

    Happy to agree to postpone that decision until the next meeting?

  129. dwd

    Though you might want to double-check that in the Bylaws. :-)

  130. ralphm

    Well, as it is, we can postpone this item as the current Chair is on the Board anyway.

  131. ralphm

    I motion we do so.

  132. dwd

    I'm happy to postpone. I'd rather know what Mike's intent is here before deciding what to do.

  133. ralphm


  134. dwd

    Oh, wait, you motioned. I shall second, then.

  135. dwd loves the formal lingo. ;-)

  136. Simon motions to create some motion.

  137. Laura

    I concur.

  138. dwd


  139. dwd

    So item (3), which is the next meeting.

  140. ralphm


  141. dwd


  142. ralphm

    or can we do additional things after that item

  143. ralphm


  144. dwd

    Oh, we should have an AOB at the end. COnsider that as (4).

  145. ralphm


  146. dwd

    I also have AOB. Possibly the same AOB, actually.

  147. ralphm

    In that case. +1W

  148. dwd

    Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel?

  149. ralphm


  150. ralphm

    I think we should keep this timeslot open every week

  151. dwd

    Yes, makes sense if it works for us. If it's awkward for Mike, though, we should move it.

  152. ralphm


  153. dwd

    Laura, Simon - this time/day work for you guys?

  154. Simon

    yeah - works for me.

  155. Laura

    Works for me.

  156. dwd


  157. Laura

    Although, I would like us to consider a video meeting at some point, when there is bigger things to discuss than the next meeting

  158. Laura

    *opens another can of worms*

  159. dwd

    Yeah, we should consider some logistics for that. It'd be nice to have a Jingle meeting, but we need a protocol written...

  160. dwd

    So, ralphm - you had some AOB?

  161. dwd

    Was it FOSDEM? :-)

  162. ralphm

    Sure, I do these things all the time. Over Hangouts.

  163. ralphm

    dwd: it wasn't FOSDEM

  164. ralphm

    so go ahead

  165. Laura

    I also use hangouts

  166. dwd

    Ah, OK. No, you go first.

  167. Laura

    Sorry, fo ahead with AOB

  168. ralphm

    I'd like to discuss what we want to do this term.

  169. dwd

    Right. So just a small topic, then?

  170. ralphm

    In the discussions leading up to the Member's meeting, as well as during the XMPP Summit, many things have been suggested as things the XSF could, should or ought to do.

  171. Laura

    How does a conversation like that happen on here?

  172. ralphm

    Let's think about this some more and have that discussion in a (near) future meeting.

  173. ralphm

    Laura: by typing, I guess.

  174. dwd

    Actually declaring a meeting specifically for this purpose (say, the one after next) might make the most sense.

  175. dwd

    Since then interested members can also show up and suggest ideas.

  176. Laura

    Maybe that conversation (as bound to be more complex) could be a tester for video meeting?

  177. Simon

    I hear fippo is the video guy. :)

  178. ralphm

    We also briefly talked about this in last week's non-meeting, and there were some different opinions on what a/the board should do in general. Only react on what members request v.s. lead by proposing things.

  179. dwd

    I think that some of both is required - we should be proposing things, and pushing the membership - raising the bar, as it were.

  180. Simon

    We should examine the XMPP charter to see what it says we should do. Or?

  181. ralphm

    Although I do a lot of video conferences, I think it is not a great medium for discussion.

  182. Simon

    But we also all wrote manifestos and should see what kind of commonality there is there and work towards that.

  183. Laura

    I disagree. As I am part of a distributed company, this is how I work every day and its a great way to get meetings done and decisions made

  184. Simon

    IMHO it wouldn't hurt to jointly agree on what the XSF is here for and make sure our decisions work towards that end.

  185. dwd

    Laura, Yes, but it only works for open discussion in a relatively small group.

  186. dwd

    Simon, Yes - I'm tempted to suggest we should actually work on getting a mission statement for the XSF together.

  187. Simon

    dwd - yeah something like that.

  188. dwd

    Simon, Though I don't really like mission statements as a rule, I think in this case a single statement saying "This is what the XSF does" makes sense.

  189. ralphm

    Laura: also, I don't know about Surevine, but the XSF has members from many different countries, where English is not the native language. Typing makes things easier for some people.

  190. Laura

    I see.

  191. Laura

    I wondered if a video call for a discussion on bigger topics, with a blog summary post might be useful?

  192. dwd

    Laura, I'm all in favour of audio/video chats for focussed discussions within a smaller group, mind.

  193. fippo

    i'm working on the video stuff ;-)

  194. ralphm

    indeed, but if you want to give voice to the membership, I am inclined to say, just use a groupchat

  195. ralphm

    This has worked for this community since before its inception.

  196. dwd

    Right - aside from anything else, you get higher bandwidth with a text chat amongst that many people - nobody gets shut out of the conversation, they all can type at once.

  197. Laura

    As I said, it as just an idea. I just haven't been part of a meeting this way before so was just suggesting

  198. ralphm

    Laura: I shall have Lloyd train you then :-D

  199. fippo

    ralphm: that could be dangerous, he'll show the the jingle-capable xmpp-ftw ;-)

  200. ralphm

    fippo: there is a record of him taking suggestions from me. We'll see.

  201. ralphm

    ok, as there seems to be some consensus, I'm good with my AOB

  202. dwd

    So, as a concrete motion, shall we hold a meeting specifically on the topic of "What should the XSF do this year" in two weeks?

  203. Laura


  204. ralphm


  205. Simon

    +1. But could we not do it next week?

  206. Simon

    Either is fine for me though - just keen to get things rolling

  207. dwd

    Simon, We could; I figured we'd want to get some of the paperwork (like electing Chairs, and possibly confirming the contiuing appointments of Alex and Peter) out of the way.

  208. ralphm

    dwd: agreed

  209. dwd

    Plus if we're inviting the members, we probably want to give a bit more notice.

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  212. ralphm

    dwd: that's actually in our by laws (section 3.4, 10 days)

  213. dwd

    OK. One more for the AOB - we need to start considering the XSFs activity in FOSDEM.

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  215. ralphm


  216. ralphm

    There has been no confirmation of our booth, yet.

  217. Simon

    ok - so will someone update the calendar (or we move to a shared G calendar?)

  218. dwd

    ralphm, OK. Do you know when we'll find out?

  219. ralphm

    The date for this is 15 December

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  221. dwd

    Simon, I'll get the calendar sorted.

  222. Simon

    Thanks DWD

  223. ralphm

    Which is pretty short notice.

  224. ralphm

    So I think we have to start plan for the Summit

  225. ralphm

    and then have the booth sorted out later

  226. dwd

    ralphm, Right - unfortunately the Summit is probably the one that'll take less time.

  227. ralphm

    Well, we could plan things under the assumption that we'll have the same arrangement as last year.

  228. dwd

    ralphm, Yeah, my concern is that if we look at buying in promo gear again, we can't commit until the 15th.

  229. ralphm

    As some of us have discussed at RealtimeWeek, we'd like to make it somewhat better organised as a minimum.

  230. dwd

    ralphm, But we can get quotes, do the designs, etc.

  231. ralphm

    dwd: true

  232. dwd

    ralphm, Two years ago, I think we formed a formal Work Team to arrange the FOSDEM/Summit stuff - mostly focuessed on FOSDEM.

  233. Simon

    I remember that - worked very well

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  235. dwd

    ralphm, That was the first year we managed the Realtime Lounge. We could spin that up again, if that'd help?

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  237. dwd

    ralphm, I'm sort of assuming you'll be leading this, since you're normally our ambassador to FOSDEM as it were.

  238. ralphm

    Since our thing at FOSDEM has been called the Realtime Lounge for a few years, and discussed this with some people, we can get some help from the &yet guys regarding the branding and possibly more.

  239. ralphm

    dwd: sure

  240. ralphm

    One of the foremost issues are:

  241. dwd

    ralphm, Why don't you start assembling a team. We'll need to figure out what budget we can run to, but I'd hope we could recoup most of the cost by promo stuff as usual.

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  243. ralphm

    1) Organizing demos

  244. ralphm

    2) getting gear there

  245. Laura

    Suggestion: someone draft the tasks that need to be done, and at the next meeting let's assign them out?

  246. ralphm

    Laura: are you suggesting to make this a Board activity?

  247. Laura

    Is it not a Board activity? Or at least need Board input?

  248. dwd

    ralphm, Board-managed at least, I'd have thought.

  249. ralphm

    dwd: right

  250. dwd

    ralphm, Hopefully we can get several members to help, though.

  251. Laura

    I agree

  252. dwd

    ralphm, I'm hoping Florian will lend us a hand as usual, for a start.

  253. ralphm

    Laura: I guess this ties in with the level of involvement of the Board in general. But yeah, it would be great to have more of that in this case.

  254. ralphm

    dwd: indeed. Although he doesn't seem to have reapplied for membership

  255. dwd

    But anyway - let's consider returning next week and figure out what's needed, as Laura says.

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  257. ralphm

    I'd be happy to head this, though

  258. dwd

    ralphm, I'll threaten to out him to the Heathrow security staff if he doesn't help out. ;-)

  259. ralphm


  260. dwd

    ralphm, I'm happy to help in whatever way I can, of course.

  261. ralphm

    as for the Summit, we can draft a call b

  262. ralphm

    for participation

  263. Laura

    I might be able to track him down… he is often kicking around in the coffee shop in my building

  264. ralphm

    when he's not partying, I'm sure

  265. dwd

    Oh, I assumed your office was too up-market to let him in...

  266. ralphm


  267. Laura

    Like, I said, he hangs in the basement :)

  268. dwd

    OK - I'm good with this, unless anyone else has anythign to add?

  269. fippo

    btw @ florian... can someone specifically poke him to reapply for membership? :-)

  270. Laura

    Happy to wrap up there

  271. Laura

    I will take that action

  272. Laura

    I am seeing him in a few weeks anyway for the XMPP meetup I am hosting

  273. Laura

    Details about to be announced

  274. ralphm

    Laura: he needs to apply today, basically

  275. dwd


  276. Laura

    Ahh. Tweeting him now

  277. Edwin Mons

    Laura: when will this be?

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  279. Edwin Mons

    (the meetup)

  280. ralphm

    any other any other business?

  281. dwd

    I'm good. We can adjourn.

  282. Laura

    Edwin, will send you details but Monday 2nd Dec

  283. ralphm remarks the devil just appeared

  284. dwd

    (Not that we all need to run away)

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  286. ralphm

    admin: go and reapply now!

  287. Edwin Mons

    ralphm :)

  288. dwd

    OK, I'll formally call this meeting to a close.

  289. Laura

    Thanks all!

  290. ralphm


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  292. ralphm

    dwd: are you writing some minutes?

  293. dwd


  294. dwd

    And sent.

  295. dwd

    Wrote them as we went, it seemed easier.

  296. MattJ

    Teach Kev that trick :)

  297. ralphm


  298. dwd

    MattJ, Kev is *way* more organized than I am about these things.

  299. ralphm

    Kev kept word about heckling. Much appreciated. Don't tempt him now.

  300. MattJ


  301. Kev


  302. dwd

    ralphm, We could always vote Kev as Board Chair, too. As I say, he doesn't actually need to be on the Board for us to do so.

  303. ralphm


  304. dwd

    ralphm, Then he;d have all the minutes to write up...

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  306. Kev

    I used to write minutes to meetings before I'd attended the meetings, for my day job (before Isode).

  307. ralphm

    dwd: It seems that formally, our Secretary should do that in our case.

  308. dwd

    Can someone do the calgen.py thing? I've updated the events.xml.

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  310. bear


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  312. ralphm

    bear: yay timezones!

  313. bear

    phone failure so I completely did not get my reminder

  314. bear

    did I miss it?

  315. fippo

    dave already sent the minutes

  316. bear


  317. bear goes to read

  318. ralphm

    bear: yeah, we started about an hour ago

  319. bear

    don't see any emails

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  321. ralphm

    bear: I'd celebrate today.

  322. ralphm

    I see hundreds of them

  323. bear


  324. bear

    I meant for the board meeting

  325. ralphm

    bear: the meeting notes were sent to the members' list

  326. bear

    yes - figures as soon as I type "no, don't have it" my mailbox dings

  327. bear

    it's going to be a good day :/

  328. ralphm

    bear: good luck

  329. bear thanks dwd for doing the minutes

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  362. dwd

    Lance, Hmm. Your server still doesn't like my certificate.

  363. dwd

    The dsfjdssdfsd list provides a venue for discussion of randomness in IETF protocols, for example related to updating RFC 4086.

  364. dwd

    Awesome list name.

  365. ralphm


  366. Lance

    their RNG appears to be biased

  367. dwd

    Seems left-handed, possibly.

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