XSF Discussion - 2013-11-22

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  21. fippo http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg09968.html
  22. fippo the current jabber logs of the ietf don't even store the participants full jid
  23. fippo zash: assuming that jabber.ietf.org moves to a certain muc implementation... how much effort would it take to make some kind of data form that acts as blue sheet?
  24. Zash fippo: I'd worry more about clients
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  26. fippo hey lance... you and bear absolutely want to poke the rtcweb chairs that you have a vote in the process because you were in the jabber room ;-)
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  28. fippo this whole thing is ... not going to work.
  29. Lance hrm? bit lost at what's going on, fippo
  30. Zash IETF, voting, what?
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  32. fippo http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg09922.html might give you the context
  33. fippo there is no resolution to the h.264 vs vp8 debate, so there is going to be a vote
  34. Zash for MTI?
  35. fippo one of the question that came up is whether people who participated remotely in the jabber room are eligible
  36. fippo yeah
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  40. dwd Vote?
  41. dwd Oh, that's an appeal right there.
  42. dwd Hahaha. As PSA has already said.
  43. fippo dwd: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg09958.html -- maybe inky can ship that module
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  46. ralphm haha
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  49. intosi fippo: heh!
  50. Kev bins his "Eris day" reply to operators@ before sending it.
  51. fippo kev: http://my.pages.de/pub/net/irc/history/killer.c.gz ;-)
  52. Kev We are, at least, in a somewhat better position than that.
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  57. ralphm fippo: good question, re google
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  61. fippo i'm not opposed to adding exceptions based on SRV records
  62. fippo but I am somewhat opposed to doing that
  63. fippo only to find out they're going to shut the whole thing down
  64. Kev I don't entirely understand why Google is special here (I partly do, but not entirely).
  65. Kev If folks believe that it is morally wrong to let their users communicate over non-TLS links, then that it's Google isn't relevant.
  66. fippo kev: 20% of deployed servers are apps afaik
  67. dwd I'm writing exactly that to the list by co-inky-dink.
  68. Kev If people believe it isn't morally wrong to let their users communicate over non-TLS if it's someone the users actually want to communicate with, they should add exceptions for all non-TLS domains, not just Google's.
  69. Kev (Where "exceptions for all non-TLS domains" is what we have at the moment)
  70. dwd Now quite.
  71. dwd Not quite.
  72. fippo kev: would be interesting to get the numbers on that
  73. Kev I'm not at all keen, as I've been saying for ages, on cutting out non-TLS S2S while we know it's being used.
  74. fippo can you get a list of all non-tls domains from jabber.org?
  75. Kev dwd: Explicit whitelisting, MITM, etc.
  76. Kev fippo: I do not believe so.
  77. dwd Kev, We have TLS exceptions for all domains. Not just non-TLS ones.
  78. Kev And with enough words that I can parse that? :)
  79. dwd Will you connect to dave.cridland.net if it doesn't offer TLS at all?
  80. dwd (Answer: Yes)
  81. dwd Even though it *does* offer TLS, with a proper CA issued certificate, as well.
  82. dwd Anyway, mail sent, with More Words™.
  83. Kev Then yes, that's what I was saying.
  84. Kev That explicit whitelisting prevents a MITM downgrade on servers that do support stuff.
  85. Kev So explicit whitelisting isn't quite what we have now, it's true.
  86. dwd I'm wondering if just a DNS record might help. Not mad keen on filling DNS with rubbish, mind.
  87. Kev dnssec-signed, presumably.
  88. dwd The case where an attacker removes the DNS record leaves us in the same situation as we're in now, though, so while DNSSEC feels desirable, I think an unsigned record would still be useful.
  89. Kev Yes.
  90. Kev I don't see a problem with getting this deployed by the new year :)
  91. dwd Hmmm... Actually we could use unsigned DANE records for this.
  92. Kev ralphm: Like IPv6 day, if IPv6 day turned off IPv4 for the day.
  93. dwd BTW, just to float a t-shirt idea for FOSDEM - what about a set of t-shirts each in a different colour, with the slogan of "Give me a Jingle on my Jabber!", and the (old, original) Jabber logo? This somewhat presumes we'd want to push the Jabber name for the deployed federation.
  94. Lloyd Another idea: xmpp/jabber stickers, I found some spare space on my laptop :)
  95. intosi I like the bulb and jabber name :)
  96. intosi And we say stickers every year, and only managed to make some once.
  97. Lloyd Laura had some organised for surevine recently, I'm sure she could help here - I didn't say a word though ;)
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  100. intosi I guess Laura is now volunteered for the FOSDEM crew ;)
  101. ralphm dwd: I'm +1 on Jabber theming. In the past I made a SVG version of both the bulb and later the jabber.org logo, after hunting down the actual font used in the original JSF logo.
  102. ralphm For stickers, I'd just do the bulb, no text.
  103. ralphm Kev: well, yeah, I suppose. They haven't gotten to disabling IPv4 just yet. We move faster :-D
  104. ralphm dwd, intosi, Lloyd: we started this wiki page just after last FOSDEM. Let's use this page to do some planning. http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/index.php?title=FOSDEM_Checklist
  105. dwd Lloyd, I'm intending on stickers.
  106. dwd Lloyd, Actually I was looking at both XMPP/XSF stickers and Jabber ones, but I was also aiming to get some "Hello my jid is" stickers done if I can.
  107. ralphm dwd: but everyone and their dog will intercept your communications!
  108. dwd Woof?
  109. dwd Oh, and I'm looking at prices for some zippy hoodies, seeing as the non-zippy ones seem to have been a hit. My wife tends to wear my older/smaller one a lot, which amuses me. But zippy hoodies aren't going to be cheap.
  110. dwd Hmmm... "Federation is my favourite F word"...
  111. intosi Added schwag part to the wiki page.
  112. dwd Thanks.
  113. dwd FWIW, I don't want to redo the existing Orange/Grey XMPP Hoodies; I'd rather keep older schwag as "you had to be there".
  114. intosi Editing conflict, I was adding more or less the same text for t-shirts ;)
  115. dwd Ooops, sorry.
  116. intosi +1 on not redoing previous hits.
  117. intosi And -1 on the oops.
  118. Kev Doesn't mean we can't redo things in the same style, though.
  119. Kev I liked the hoodies a lot.
  120. dwd Right, me too - wearing mine at the moment, and as I say, Kellie was wearing hers yesterday.
  121. dwd She does ban me from wearing mine on the same day. Matching clothes in marrioed couples is, she feels, a bad thing.
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  123. ralphm :-D
  124. Kev If one hoodie is awesome, surely two hoodies is at least twice as awesome.
  125. dwd Like Howard and Hilda from Ever Decreasing Circles?
  126. Kev I understood each of those words. In isolation.
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  128. dwd Kev, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ever_Decreasing_Circles - An image search for `howard and hilda "ever descreasing circles"' will find you images.
  129. intosi dwd: and why does your wife want to avoid this? ;-)
  130. intosi ralphm: Buurman & buurvrouw :)
  131. ralphm pft
  132. Zash is also wearing the hoodie
  133. Zash The. Hoodie.
  134. Kev dwd: Images found. Why is this bad?
  135. dwd shakes head in despair.
  136. dwd How much did we charge for the hoodies last time? I can't remember.
  137. ralphm http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/members/2012-January/006675.html
  138. ralphm I think 15
  139. Zash or was it 20
  140. dwd I suspect 15, in the end. I vaguely recall Florian seeing the weather and suggesting we should raise prices to 20.
  141. Zash They sure are warm :)
  142. dwd They are - we were really lucky in that the supplier gave us these ones instead of the flimsy ones I'd originally been looking at for much the same price.
  143. dwd http://www.hoodyworld.co.uk/hoodies/college-unisex-onesie ?
  144. Zash O_o
  145. dwd Well, you liked warm, right?
  146. Kev "Great new onesie at Hoodyworld. Fantastic for school, college and uni. Great for chilling out or looking cool."
  147. Kev There's something here that I can't quite put my finger on.
  148. dwd Yeah.
  149. dwd It's "chilling out". Never be cold in one of those.
  150. Zash Has the dates of the summit been set yet?
  151. dwd Yes, we're doing the two days before.
  152. intosi dwd: hoodies should be warm. I refuse to wear cool hoodies.
  153. intosi scratches head about his last remark.
  154. Zash Find ones that make you look hot instead.
  155. intosi And I certainly refuse to wear onesies, cool or not ;)
  156. intosi Zash: +1
  157. dwd intosi, Don't you think the sight of a bunch of XMPP folk all wearing an XMPP branded onesie would stick in people's mind?
  158. dwd No matter how hard they tried to forget?
  159. Zash All publicity is good publicity.
  160. intosi dwd: it would. Nightmares are made of that stuff, I think.
  161. dwd Who am I to disagree?
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  171. Zash XSF Memberbot - Mood: Serious - haha :D
  172. dwd Zash, I note it's the same PEPness as Alex...
  173. Zash !
  174. dwd Also, I've never seen the Memberbot and Alex in the same room together.
  175. Zash notes the nickname field in Alex's vcard
  176. Kev Heh.
  177. dwd Ha!
  178. MattJ My client doesn't support vcards
  179. MattJ I feel like I'm missing out
  180. Alex sometimes I login Memberbot with Psi to modify the roster. Mayve thats the reason
  181. dwd Alex, Sure.
  182. intosi dwd: we are onto something.
  183. intosi Alex: we believe you, really.
  184. intosi wispers: best not to upset our robot overlords.
  185. dwd I, for one, [etc]
  186. intosi Don't we all?
  187. intosi Except for one small village in France, I presume.
  188. dwd Speaking of robots: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25033172
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  227. ralphm facepalms for rtcweb
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  237. MattJ I'm clearly not on enough IETF lists
  238. Kev Ooh, I know this one.
  239. Kev "Things no-one has said, ever"
  240. ralphm MattJ: oh, please, if you're not already on that list stay away. What a train wreck
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  243. Kev ralphm: Continuation of the voting debacle?
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  245. ralphm Kev: yeah
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