XSF Discussion - 2013-11-22

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  21. fippo


  22. fippo

    the current jabber logs of the ietf don't even store the participants full jid

  23. fippo

    zash: assuming that jabber.ietf.org moves to a certain muc implementation... how much effort would it take to make some kind of data form that acts as blue sheet?

  24. Zash

    fippo: I'd worry more about clients

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  26. fippo

    hey lance... you and bear absolutely want to poke the rtcweb chairs that you have a vote in the process because you were in the jabber room ;-)

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  28. fippo

    this whole thing is ... not going to work.

  29. Lance

    hrm? bit lost at what's going on, fippo

  30. Zash

    IETF, voting, what?

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  32. fippo

    http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg09922.html might give you the context

  33. fippo

    there is no resolution to the h.264 vs vp8 debate, so there is going to be a vote

  34. Zash

    for MTI?

  35. fippo

    one of the question that came up is whether people who participated remotely in the jabber room are eligible

  36. fippo


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  40. dwd


  41. dwd

    Oh, that's an appeal right there.

  42. dwd

    Hahaha. As PSA has already said.

  43. fippo

    dwd: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg09958.html -- maybe inky can ship that module

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  46. ralphm


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  49. intosi

    fippo: heh!

  50. Kev bins his "Eris day" reply to operators@ before sending it.

  51. fippo

    kev: http://my.pages.de/pub/net/irc/history/killer.c.gz ;-)

  52. Kev

    We are, at least, in a somewhat better position than that.

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  57. ralphm

    fippo: good question, re google

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  61. fippo

    i'm not opposed to adding exceptions based on SRV records

  62. fippo

    but I am somewhat opposed to doing that

  63. fippo

    only to find out they're going to shut the whole thing down

  64. Kev

    I don't entirely understand why Google is special here (I partly do, but not entirely).

  65. Kev

    If folks believe that it is morally wrong to let their users communicate over non-TLS links, then that it's Google isn't relevant.

  66. fippo

    kev: 20% of deployed servers are apps afaik

  67. dwd

    I'm writing exactly that to the list by co-inky-dink.

  68. Kev

    If people believe it isn't morally wrong to let their users communicate over non-TLS if it's someone the users actually want to communicate with, they should add exceptions for all non-TLS domains, not just Google's.

  69. Kev

    (Where "exceptions for all non-TLS domains" is what we have at the moment)

  70. dwd

    Now quite.

  71. dwd

    Not quite.

  72. fippo

    kev: would be interesting to get the numbers on that

  73. Kev

    I'm not at all keen, as I've been saying for ages, on cutting out non-TLS S2S while we know it's being used.

  74. fippo

    can you get a list of all non-tls domains from jabber.org?

  75. Kev

    dwd: Explicit whitelisting, MITM, etc.

  76. Kev

    fippo: I do not believe so.

  77. dwd

    Kev, We have TLS exceptions for all domains. Not just non-TLS ones.

  78. Kev

    And with enough words that I can parse that? :)

  79. dwd

    Will you connect to dave.cridland.net if it doesn't offer TLS at all?

  80. dwd

    (Answer: Yes)

  81. dwd

    Even though it *does* offer TLS, with a proper CA issued certificate, as well.

  82. dwd

    Anyway, mail sent, with More Words™.

  83. Kev

    Then yes, that's what I was saying.

  84. Kev

    That explicit whitelisting prevents a MITM downgrade on servers that do support stuff.

  85. Kev

    So explicit whitelisting isn't quite what we have now, it's true.

  86. dwd

    I'm wondering if just a DNS record might help. Not mad keen on filling DNS with rubbish, mind.

  87. Kev

    dnssec-signed, presumably.

  88. dwd

    The case where an attacker removes the DNS record leaves us in the same situation as we're in now, though, so while DNSSEC feels desirable, I think an unsigned record would still be useful.

  89. Kev


  90. Kev

    I don't see a problem with getting this deployed by the new year :)

  91. dwd

    Hmmm... Actually we could use unsigned DANE records for this.

  92. Kev

    ralphm: Like IPv6 day, if IPv6 day turned off IPv4 for the day.

  93. dwd

    BTW, just to float a t-shirt idea for FOSDEM - what about a set of t-shirts each in a different colour, with the slogan of "Give me a Jingle on my Jabber!", and the (old, original) Jabber logo? This somewhat presumes we'd want to push the Jabber name for the deployed federation.

  94. Lloyd

    Another idea: xmpp/jabber stickers, I found some spare space on my laptop :)

  95. intosi

    I like the bulb and jabber name :)

  96. intosi

    And we say stickers every year, and only managed to make some once.

  97. Lloyd

    Laura had some organised for surevine recently, I'm sure she could help here - I didn't say a word though ;)

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  100. intosi

    I guess Laura is now volunteered for the FOSDEM crew ;)

  101. ralphm

    dwd: I'm +1 on Jabber theming. In the past I made a SVG version of both the bulb and later the jabber.org logo, after hunting down the actual font used in the original JSF logo.

  102. ralphm

    For stickers, I'd just do the bulb, no text.

  103. ralphm

    Kev: well, yeah, I suppose. They haven't gotten to disabling IPv4 just yet. We move faster :-D

  104. ralphm

    dwd, intosi, Lloyd: we started this wiki page just after last FOSDEM. Let's use this page to do some planning. http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/index.php?title=FOSDEM_Checklist

  105. dwd

    Lloyd, I'm intending on stickers.

  106. dwd

    Lloyd, Actually I was looking at both XMPP/XSF stickers and Jabber ones, but I was also aiming to get some "Hello my jid is" stickers done if I can.

  107. ralphm

    dwd: but everyone and their dog will intercept your communications!

  108. dwd


  109. dwd

    Oh, and I'm looking at prices for some zippy hoodies, seeing as the non-zippy ones seem to have been a hit. My wife tends to wear my older/smaller one a lot, which amuses me. But zippy hoodies aren't going to be cheap.

  110. dwd

    Hmmm... "Federation is my favourite F word"...

  111. intosi

    Added schwag part to the wiki page.

  112. dwd


  113. dwd

    FWIW, I don't want to redo the existing Orange/Grey XMPP Hoodies; I'd rather keep older schwag as "you had to be there".

  114. intosi

    Editing conflict, I was adding more or less the same text for t-shirts ;)

  115. dwd

    Ooops, sorry.

  116. intosi

    +1 on not redoing previous hits.

  117. intosi

    And -1 on the oops.

  118. Kev

    Doesn't mean we can't redo things in the same style, though.

  119. Kev

    I liked the hoodies a lot.

  120. dwd

    Right, me too - wearing mine at the moment, and as I say, Kellie was wearing hers yesterday.

  121. dwd

    She does ban me from wearing mine on the same day. Matching clothes in marrioed couples is, she feels, a bad thing.

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  123. ralphm


  124. Kev

    If one hoodie is awesome, surely two hoodies is at least twice as awesome.

  125. dwd

    Like Howard and Hilda from Ever Decreasing Circles?

  126. Kev

    I understood each of those words. In isolation.

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  128. dwd

    Kev, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ever_Decreasing_Circles - An image search for `howard and hilda "ever descreasing circles"' will find you images.

  129. intosi

    dwd: and why does your wife want to avoid this? ;-)

  130. intosi

    ralphm: Buurman & buurvrouw :)

  131. ralphm


  132. Zash is also wearing the hoodie

  133. Zash

    The. Hoodie.

  134. Kev

    dwd: Images found. Why is this bad?

  135. dwd shakes head in despair.

  136. dwd

    How much did we charge for the hoodies last time? I can't remember.

  137. ralphm


  138. ralphm

    I think 15

  139. Zash

    or was it 20

  140. dwd

    I suspect 15, in the end. I vaguely recall Florian seeing the weather and suggesting we should raise prices to 20.

  141. Zash

    They sure are warm :)

  142. dwd

    They are - we were really lucky in that the supplier gave us these ones instead of the flimsy ones I'd originally been looking at for much the same price.

  143. dwd

    http://www.hoodyworld.co.uk/hoodies/college-unisex-onesie ?

  144. Zash


  145. dwd

    Well, you liked warm, right?

  146. Kev

    "Great new onesie at Hoodyworld. Fantastic for school, college and uni. Great for chilling out or looking cool."

  147. Kev

    There's something here that I can't quite put my finger on.

  148. dwd


  149. dwd

    It's "chilling out". Never be cold in one of those.

  150. Zash

    Has the dates of the summit been set yet?

  151. dwd

    Yes, we're doing the two days before.

  152. intosi

    dwd: hoodies should be warm. I refuse to wear cool hoodies.

  153. intosi scratches head about his last remark.

  154. Zash

    Find ones that make you look hot instead.

  155. intosi

    And I certainly refuse to wear onesies, cool or not ;)

  156. intosi

    Zash: +1

  157. dwd

    intosi, Don't you think the sight of a bunch of XMPP folk all wearing an XMPP branded onesie would stick in people's mind?

  158. dwd

    No matter how hard they tried to forget?

  159. Zash

    All publicity is good publicity.

  160. intosi

    dwd: it would. Nightmares are made of that stuff, I think.

  161. dwd

    Who am I to disagree?

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  171. Zash

    XSF Memberbot - Mood: Serious - haha :D

  172. dwd

    Zash, I note it's the same PEPness as Alex...

  173. Zash


  174. dwd

    Also, I've never seen the Memberbot and Alex in the same room together.

  175. Zash notes the nickname field in Alex's vcard

  176. Kev


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  178. MattJ

    My client doesn't support vcards

  179. MattJ

    I feel like I'm missing out

  180. Alex

    sometimes I login Memberbot with Psi to modify the roster. Mayve thats the reason

  181. dwd

    Alex, Sure.

  182. intosi

    dwd: we are onto something.

  183. intosi

    Alex: we believe you, really.

  184. intosi wispers: best not to upset our robot overlords.

  185. dwd

    I, for one, [etc]

  186. intosi

    Don't we all?

  187. intosi

    Except for one small village in France, I presume.

  188. dwd

    Speaking of robots: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25033172

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  237. MattJ

    I'm clearly not on enough IETF lists

  238. Kev

    Ooh, I know this one.

  239. Kev

    "Things no-one has said, ever"

  240. ralphm

    MattJ: oh, please, if you're not already on that list stay away. What a train wreck

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  243. Kev

    ralphm: Continuation of the voting debacle?

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  245. ralphm

    Kev: yeah

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