the current jabber logs of the ietf don't even store the participants full jid
fippo
zash: assuming that jabber.ietf.org moves to a certain muc implementation... how much effort would it take to make some kind of data form that acts as blue sheet?
Zash
fippo: I'd worry more about clients
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fippo
hey lance... you and bear absolutely want to poke the rtcweb chairs that you have a vote in the process because you were in the jabber room ;-)
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fippo
this whole thing is ... not going to work.
Lance
hrm? bit lost at what's going on, fippo
Zash
IETF, voting, what?
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fippo
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg09922.html might give you the context
fippo
there is no resolution to the h.264 vs vp8 debate, so there is going to be a vote
Zash
for MTI?
fippo
one of the question that came up is whether people who participated remotely in the jabber room are eligible
fippo
yeah
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dwd
Vote?
dwd
Oh, that's an appeal right there.
dwd
Hahaha. As PSA has already said.
fippo
dwd: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg09958.html -- maybe inky can ship that module
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ralphm
haha
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intosi
fippo: heh!
Kevbins his "Eris day" reply to operators@ before sending it.
We are, at least, in a somewhat better position than that.
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ralphm
fippo: good question, re google
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fippo
i'm not opposed to adding exceptions based on SRV records
fippo
but I am somewhat opposed to doing that
fippo
only to find out they're going to shut the whole thing down
Kev
I don't entirely understand why Google is special here (I partly do, but not entirely).
Kev
If folks believe that it is morally wrong to let their users communicate over non-TLS links, then that it's Google isn't relevant.
fippo
kev: 20% of deployed servers are apps afaik
dwd
I'm writing exactly that to the list by co-inky-dink.
Kev
If people believe it isn't morally wrong to let their users communicate over non-TLS if it's someone the users actually want to communicate with, they should add exceptions for all non-TLS domains, not just Google's.
Kev
(Where "exceptions for all non-TLS domains" is what we have at the moment)
dwd
Now quite.
dwd
Not quite.
fippo
kev: would be interesting to get the numbers on that
Kev
I'm not at all keen, as I've been saying for ages, on cutting out non-TLS S2S while we know it's being used.
fippo
can you get a list of all non-tls domains from jabber.org?
Kev
dwd: Explicit whitelisting, MITM, etc.
Kev
fippo: I do not believe so.
dwd
Kev, We have TLS exceptions for all domains. Not just non-TLS ones.
Kev
And with enough words that I can parse that? :)
dwd
Will you connect to dave.cridland.net if it doesn't offer TLS at all?
dwd
(Answer: Yes)
dwd
Even though it *does* offer TLS, with a proper CA issued certificate, as well.
dwd
Anyway, mail sent, with More Words™.
Kev
Then yes, that's what I was saying.
Kev
That explicit whitelisting prevents a MITM downgrade on servers that do support stuff.
Kev
So explicit whitelisting isn't quite what we have now, it's true.
dwd
I'm wondering if just a DNS record might help. Not mad keen on filling DNS with rubbish, mind.
Kev
dnssec-signed, presumably.
dwd
The case where an attacker removes the DNS record leaves us in the same situation as we're in now, though, so while DNSSEC feels desirable, I think an unsigned record would still be useful.
Kev
Yes.
Kev
I don't see a problem with getting this deployed by the new year :)
dwd
Hmmm... Actually we could use unsigned DANE records for this.
Kev
ralphm: Like IPv6 day, if IPv6 day turned off IPv4 for the day.
dwd
BTW, just to float a t-shirt idea for FOSDEM - what about a set of t-shirts each in a different colour, with the slogan of "Give me a Jingle on my Jabber!", and the (old, original) Jabber logo? This somewhat presumes we'd want to push the Jabber name for the deployed federation.
Lloyd
Another idea: xmpp/jabber stickers, I found some spare space on my laptop :)
intosi
I like the bulb and jabber name :)
intosi
And we say stickers every year, and only managed to make some once.
Lloyd
Laura had some organised for surevine recently, I'm sure she could help here - I didn't say a word though ;)
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intosi
I guess Laura is now volunteered for the FOSDEM crew ;)
ralphm
dwd: I'm +1 on Jabber theming. In the past I made a SVG version of both the bulb and later the jabber.org logo, after hunting down the actual font used in the original JSF logo.
ralphm
For stickers, I'd just do the bulb, no text.
ralphm
Kev: well, yeah, I suppose. They haven't gotten to disabling IPv4 just yet. We move faster :-D
ralphm
dwd, intosi, Lloyd: we started this wiki page just after last FOSDEM. Let's use this page to do some planning. http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/index.php?title=FOSDEM_Checklist
dwd
Lloyd, I'm intending on stickers.
dwd
Lloyd, Actually I was looking at both XMPP/XSF stickers and Jabber ones, but I was also aiming to get some "Hello my jid is" stickers done if I can.
ralphm
dwd: but everyone and their dog will intercept your communications!
dwd
Woof?
dwd
Oh, and I'm looking at prices for some zippy hoodies, seeing as the non-zippy ones seem to have been a hit. My wife tends to wear my older/smaller one a lot, which amuses me. But zippy hoodies aren't going to be cheap.
dwd
Hmmm... "Federation is my favourite F word"...
intosi
Added schwag part to the wiki page.
dwd
Thanks.
dwd
FWIW, I don't want to redo the existing Orange/Grey XMPP Hoodies; I'd rather keep older schwag as "you had to be there".
intosi
Editing conflict, I was adding more or less the same text for t-shirts ;)
dwd
Ooops, sorry.
intosi
+1 on not redoing previous hits.
intosi
And -1 on the oops.
Kev
Doesn't mean we can't redo things in the same style, though.
Kev
I liked the hoodies a lot.
dwd
Right, me too - wearing mine at the moment, and as I say, Kellie was wearing hers yesterday.
dwd
She does ban me from wearing mine on the same day. Matching clothes in marrioed couples is, she feels, a bad thing.
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ralphm
:-D
Kev
If one hoodie is awesome, surely two hoodies is at least twice as awesome.
dwd
Like Howard and Hilda from Ever Decreasing Circles?
Kev
I understood each of those words. In isolation.
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dwd
Kev, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ever_Decreasing_Circles - An image search for `howard and hilda "ever descreasing circles"' will find you images.
intosi
dwd: and why does your wife want to avoid this? ;-)
intosi
ralphm: Buurman & buurvrouw :)
ralphm
pft
Zashis also wearing the hoodie
Zash
The. Hoodie.
Kev
dwd: Images found. Why is this bad?
dwdshakes head in despair.
dwd
How much did we charge for the hoodies last time? I can't remember.
I suspect 15, in the end. I vaguely recall Florian seeing the weather and suggesting we should raise prices to 20.
Zash
They sure are warm :)
dwd
They are - we were really lucky in that the supplier gave us these ones instead of the flimsy ones I'd originally been looking at for much the same price.