XSF Discussion - 2013-11-22

http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg09968.html

the current jabber logs of the ietf don't even store the participants full jid

zash: assuming that jabber.ietf.org moves to a certain muc implementation... how much effort would it take to make some kind of data form that acts as blue sheet?

fippo: I'd worry more about clients

hey lance... you and bear absolutely want to poke the rtcweb chairs that you have a vote in the process because you were in the jabber room ;-)

this whole thing is ... not going to work.

hrm? bit lost at what's going on, fippo

IETF, voting, what?

http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg09922.html might give you the context

there is no resolution to the h.264 vs vp8 debate, so there is going to be a vote

for MTI?

one of the question that came up is whether people who participated remotely in the jabber room are eligible

yeah

Vote?

Oh, that's an appeal right there.

Hahaha. As PSA has already said.

dwd: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg09958.html -- maybe inky can ship that module

haha

fippo: heh!

kev: http://my.pages.de/pub/net/irc/history/killer.c.gz ;-)

We are, at least, in a somewhat better position than that.

fippo: good question, re google

i'm not opposed to adding exceptions based on SRV records

but I am somewhat opposed to doing that

only to find out they're going to shut the whole thing down

I don't entirely understand why Google is special here (I partly do, but not entirely).

If folks believe that it is morally wrong to let their users communicate over non-TLS links, then that it's Google isn't relevant.

kev: 20% of deployed servers are apps afaik

I'm writing exactly that to the list by co-inky-dink.

If people believe it isn't morally wrong to let their users communicate over non-TLS if it's someone the users actually want to communicate with, they should add exceptions for all non-TLS domains, not just Google's.

(Where "exceptions for all non-TLS domains" is what we have at the moment)

Now quite.

Not quite.

kev: would be interesting to get the numbers on that

I'm not at all keen, as I've been saying for ages, on cutting out non-TLS S2S while we know it's being used.

can you get a list of all non-tls domains from jabber.org?

dwd: Explicit whitelisting, MITM, etc.

fippo: I do not believe so.

Kev, We have TLS exceptions for all domains. Not just non-TLS ones.

And with enough words that I can parse that? :)

Will you connect to dave.cridland.net if it doesn't offer TLS at all?

(Answer: Yes)

Even though it *does* offer TLS, with a proper CA issued certificate, as well.

Anyway, mail sent, with More Words™.

Then yes, that's what I was saying.

That explicit whitelisting prevents a MITM downgrade on servers that do support stuff.

So explicit whitelisting isn't quite what we have now, it's true.

I'm wondering if just a DNS record might help. Not mad keen on filling DNS with rubbish, mind.

dnssec-signed, presumably.

The case where an attacker removes the DNS record leaves us in the same situation as we're in now, though, so while DNSSEC feels desirable, I think an unsigned record would still be useful.

Yes.

I don't see a problem with getting this deployed by the new year :)

Hmmm... Actually we could use unsigned DANE records for this.

ralphm: Like IPv6 day, if IPv6 day turned off IPv4 for the day.

BTW, just to float a t-shirt idea for FOSDEM - what about a set of t-shirts each in a different colour, with the slogan of "Give me a Jingle on my Jabber!", and the (old, original) Jabber logo? This somewhat presumes we'd want to push the Jabber name for the deployed federation.

Another idea: xmpp/jabber stickers, I found some spare space on my laptop :)

I like the bulb and jabber name :)

And we say stickers every year, and only managed to make some once.

Laura had some organised for surevine recently, I'm sure she could help here - I didn't say a word though ;)

I guess Laura is now volunteered for the FOSDEM crew ;)

dwd: I'm +1 on Jabber theming. In the past I made a SVG version of both the bulb and later the jabber.org logo, after hunting down the actual font used in the original JSF logo.

For stickers, I'd just do the bulb, no text.

Kev: well, yeah, I suppose. They haven't gotten to disabling IPv4 just yet. We move faster :-D

dwd, intosi, Lloyd: we started this wiki page just after last FOSDEM. Let's use this page to do some planning. http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/index.php?title=FOSDEM_Checklist

Lloyd, I'm intending on stickers.

Lloyd, Actually I was looking at both XMPP/XSF stickers and Jabber ones, but I was also aiming to get some "Hello my jid is" stickers done if I can.

dwd: but everyone and their dog will intercept your communications!

Woof?

Oh, and I'm looking at prices for some zippy hoodies, seeing as the non-zippy ones seem to have been a hit. My wife tends to wear my older/smaller one a lot, which amuses me. But zippy hoodies aren't going to be cheap.

Hmmm... "Federation is my favourite F word"...

Added schwag part to the wiki page.

Thanks.

FWIW, I don't want to redo the existing Orange/Grey XMPP Hoodies; I'd rather keep older schwag as "you had to be there".

Editing conflict, I was adding more or less the same text for t-shirts ;)

Ooops, sorry.

+1 on not redoing previous hits.

And -1 on the oops.

Doesn't mean we can't redo things in the same style, though.

I liked the hoodies a lot.

Right, me too - wearing mine at the moment, and as I say, Kellie was wearing hers yesterday.

She does ban me from wearing mine on the same day. Matching clothes in marrioed couples is, she feels, a bad thing.

:-D

If one hoodie is awesome, surely two hoodies is at least twice as awesome.

Like Howard and Hilda from Ever Decreasing Circles?

I understood each of those words. In isolation.

Kev, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ever_Decreasing_Circles - An image search for `howard and hilda "ever descreasing circles"' will find you images.

dwd: and why does your wife want to avoid this? ;-)

ralphm: Buurman & buurvrouw :)

pft

The. Hoodie.

dwd: Images found. Why is this bad?

How much did we charge for the hoodies last time? I can't remember.

http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/members/2012-January/006675.html

I think 15

or was it 20

I suspect 15, in the end. I vaguely recall Florian seeing the weather and suggesting we should raise prices to 20.

They sure are warm :)

They are - we were really lucky in that the supplier gave us these ones instead of the flimsy ones I'd originally been looking at for much the same price.

http://www.hoodyworld.co.uk/hoodies/college-unisex-onesie ?

O_o

Well, you liked warm, right?

"Great new onesie at Hoodyworld. Fantastic for school, college and uni. Great for chilling out or looking cool."

There's something here that I can't quite put my finger on.

Yeah.

It's "chilling out". Never be cold in one of those.

Has the dates of the summit been set yet?

Yes, we're doing the two days before.

dwd: hoodies should be warm. I refuse to wear cool hoodies.

Find ones that make you look hot instead.

And I certainly refuse to wear onesies, cool or not ;)

Zash: +1

intosi, Don't you think the sight of a bunch of XMPP folk all wearing an XMPP branded onesie would stick in people's mind?

No matter how hard they tried to forget?

All publicity is good publicity.

dwd: it would. Nightmares are made of that stuff, I think.

Who am I to disagree?

XSF Memberbot - Mood: Serious - haha :D

Zash, I note it's the same PEPness as Alex...

!

Also, I've never seen the Memberbot and Alex in the same room together.

Heh.

Ha!

My client doesn't support vcards

I feel like I'm missing out

sometimes I login Memberbot with Psi to modify the roster. Mayve thats the reason

Alex, Sure.

dwd: we are onto something.

Alex: we believe you, really.

I, for one, [etc]

Don't we all?

Except for one small village in France, I presume.

Speaking of robots: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25033172

I'm clearly not on enough IETF lists

Ooh, I know this one.

"Things no-one has said, ever"

MattJ: oh, please, if you're not already on that list stay away. What a train wreck

ralphm: Continuation of the voting debacle?

Kev: yeah