-
fippo
zash: it only mixes audio
-
SouL
https://jitsi.org/Main/JitSiCompromise20131126
-
dwd
Zash, It's muxing video but mixing audio. One "PeerConnection", many streams.
-
fippo
https://jitsi.org/Projects/JitsiVideobridge explains it
-
bear
laura - ping?
-
Laura
Hi
-
bear
trying to connect
-
Laura
We could hear you, could you not hear us?
-
bear
evidently all my devices need new hangout software
- ralphm waves
- dwd is following the Council meeting.
-
bear
this is why I want to use xmpp video for this - I have a single JID but I have 4 gmail accounts :/
-
ralphm
are we doing a VC today?
-
ralphm
didn't get any memo
-
Kev
I hope not :p
-
intosi
Did you move the board meeting to !XMPP now?
-
dwd
I hope not :-P
-
bear
no - this was a test for something else
-
intosi
Ah, okay :)
-
ralphm
good
-
fippo
ah, you have a video call and don't use this fancy colibri stuff yet?
-
dwd
fippo, Does OTalk do it yet?
-
fippo
for 1-1 it might
-
bear
are we ready for the board meeting?
- Simon is ready.
-
Laura
*ready*
-
bear
cool - I saw dave earlier, I know he is lurking in the council meeting
-
bear
and ralph
-
MattJ
"lurking"
-
ralphm
I am. Kev is running out.
-
bear
ok, that's quorum - let's get this started
- bear bangs the gavel
-
dwd
Yeah, I'm here, just paying attention to the COuncil meeting.
-
bear
is council still going?
-
ralphm
bear: yes
-
MattJ
Just
-
bear
shall we wait 5 for it to finish?
-
ralphm
done
-
MattJ
Done
-
ralphm
bear: go
-
bear
and I see it's done
-
bear
ok, agenda bashing - anything anyone wants to add?
-
dwd
bear, What is the current agenda?
-
Kev
Did you send out an agenda?
-
Laura
Link please
- bear thanks Dave for sending to members the two items started last week
-
Simon
I'd like to add: Mozilla outreach / Google + Federation
-
bear
The only agenda item for today talk about the test day
-
dwd
Both of which are outreach/liaison issues, actually.
-
Laura
Background needed please (just a little)
-
ralphm
We didn't have minutes of last meeting, did we?
-
bear
no, I failed to get them out in a timely manner - my logs were gone and my link to the XSF one was wrong
-
dwd
Laura, Mozilla Presence is an effort by Mozilla, we naturally think they should be using XMPP. Google Federation is broken and lame, and doesn't have any security.
-
Simon
Laura: Mozilla is planning on spinning up a new push network to support FF OS devices and to support webapps on browsers. We need to ask them good questions to see if using XMPP would help them.
-
bear
http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/131120/
-
dwd
Simon, Oh, yeah, push, too.
-
Laura
Do we have links with Mozilla? Or do we need them?
-
ralphm
bear: the link is in this room's subject :-D
-
ralphm
Lance: yes and yes
-
ralphm
Laura even
-
ralphm
(yay tab-completion)
-
Simon
https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/wg-presence
-
Laura
Great
-
Laura
Steps?
-
Simon
I think our best approach here is to ask sensible questions - not the "we think they should use XMPP" approach.
-
Laura
*agree*
-
Simon
it adds credibility and helps them think they discovered XMPP
-
Simon
which is much more powerful.
-
Laura
We should understand why they haven't considered it, or if they have.
-
bear
i've been lurking in their IRC chat room to be available for questions, as has MattJ
-
dwd
Simon, Certainly understanding their requirements, and seeing if those actually are addressed by XMPP, would help.
-
ralphm
Laura: they actually did
-
Simon
"how will you deal with xyz issues?"
-
ralphm
Laura: in the meeting notes I read, XMPP pops up quite a bit
-
fippo
right. especially if xmpp doesn't address the requirements.
-
ralphm
as well as personal eventing
-
Laura
We need to get the message clear and address their concerns
-
bear
they have a couple concerns that would require a custom module for one of the xmpp servers
-
Simon
I also fear that they see (as many do) that XMPP is some kind of monolithic stack. If we can sell them on one feature, we're in a better position.
-
Laura
Are they willing to sponsor that module being developed?
-
Kev
If there are things they need that XMPP can't do, starting a discussion on standards@ seems like a sensible sort of idea.
-
bear
right now they are still working thru their own flow - they are working out even for them what the service would do and require
-
Kev
(Whoever knows what the issues are, not necessarily Moz)
-
Simon
Who has experience building push notification networks?
-
bear
so we are in the very early stages with them, just need to remain engaged so they don't skip over us because of a lack of response
-
ralphm
Simon: I think that feeling originates from the fact that all such endevours (like yours and Facebook and ...) start out from an IM implementation (like ejabberd).
-
Laura
Bear - can we help them to do this?
-
Laura
Generous of us, and will help us understand their thinking
-
bear
Laura - yes, being on hand with early prototype and/or specs for them to use
-
Kev
Simon: XMPP /is/ a push network, I think the question might need rephrasing :)
-
Laura
And the offer of our experience and knolwedge
-
Simon
Mobile push :)
-
bear
the two biggest concerns is that they do not want the devices (which would have UUIDs) to know about which users (also UUIDs) they are pushing to
-
dwd
As I said on the list, I think we just treat this as a Liaison form our end.
-
bear
but the users would know
-
Simon
Ralph - didn't Apple use some of your code for building their APN?
-
ralphm
Simon: that is a frequent myth.
-
ralphm
Simon: they use Idavoll in OS X Server for the Calendaring notifications.
- Simon adjusts his opinion of Ralph slightly.
-
Tobias
at least google's push protocol is XMPP based
-
ralphm
Simon: it is called NotificationServer and makes the whole space muddy.
-
dwd
Can I also suggest that we absolutely do not need to discuss any technical issues here and now.
-
Tobias
on some level
-
bear
they use twisted xmpp pubsub in their data center for the proxy between web and device
-
bear
(apple does)
-
Simon
So I agree this will need to be a liason - lets get some council members in there asking the right questions. But we'll need to move fast - there's code already being written.
-
bear
yes, let's consider this something to put onto the liason list
-
ralphm
bear: are you sure about that, because if that's the case, that's likely also Idavoll, but I have no idea, really.
- bear will talk about apple offline
-
ralphm
(Idavoll is a Twisted-based Generic XMPP Publish-Subscribe Service implementation, by me)
-
bear
ok, so presense-wg - take away is to add it to the liason list and make sure members@ knows about it
-
Simon
Having mozilla integrate XMPP into their (future) core would be very powerful.
-
ralphm
agreed
-
Simon
who will do that?
-
bear
who can write up a members@ notification of that liason issue?
-
dwd
Erm.
-
Laura
Question - Are any of the developers on this part of the project based in London (do we know)
-
Laura
XMPPUK meetup on Monday
-
Laura
They could come and see?
-
bear
I will post that info to their irc channel
-
Simon
laura: not aware of any - seems like a large contingient are PST tz.
-
bear
tarek is involved - he is in/around Paris IIRC
-
bear
ok, i'll write up a quick blurb - please do call me out if this is not done in 2 hours
-
bear
next agenda item?
-
bear
google federation
-
ralphm
I'm still not sure about what happens with this liason team
-
Simon
We have an impeding PR disaster / security meh "XMPP cuts off Google" and our security efforts being for nothing.
-
ralphm
(re moz) Do we give them some kind of assignment, etc.
-
bear
ralphm - we will figure it out as we go, small iterations
-
Simon
2 sides: we should have end to end security / I'm not cutting off paying customers.
-
bear
ralphm, lets defer that to after
-
ralphm
bear: ok
-
ralphm
Simon, first off, this is a community effort, not a XSF one, per se.
-
Simon
I'd written to three different Google XMPP guys and not heard anything back.
-
bear
right - I think we need to let people know this is a *test*
-
Zash
Has anyone heard anything from anyone at Google?
-
Simon
+1 on test.
-
Simon
Zash: nothing for close to a week.
-
bear
and that not all Operators have to be in on it - but once we get numbers we need to shout them loud and wide
-
Simon
I'll re-ping them.
-
Simon
indeed.
-
bear
we should make the appeal to the Operators that if they want google to change, show them impact numbers
-
ralphm
Also, GTalk has always been in this rough spot regarding proper certs for a hosted IM service.
-
Simon
so message is a) it's a test b) we're trying to work with Google.
-
ralphm
Are Google actually able to fix GTalk in short term so that they could participate, technically?
-
Simon
did I mention that XMPP.net is great?
-
MattJ
ralphm, right now I think we'd be happy even with a mismatched cert!
-
Simon
ralphm: answering emails would a nice start :)
-
Kev
I'm a little curious as to what the test is really going to show. It's not like we're talking about /enabling/ something for the first time, like IPv6 day. It's just going to show people which servers theirs is connecting to without TLS - and they know that already.
-
dwd
One thing I have noted about Google infrastructure in the past is that none of their services do a STARTTLS style switch.
-
Simon
mattJ: +1
-
ralphm
Simon: everyone agrees with this
-
dwd
So it could be that there is a blocker on offering BTNS.
-
Zash
dwd: Allways the legacy ssl way?
-
Zash
dwd: Except xmpp-client?
-
ralphm
dwd: indeed, they way the Google Cloud Service thing with XMPP works, it expects one to start an TLS connection and then do XMPP, no STARTTLS
-
ralphm
(and no SRV either)
-
dwd
But in any case, it looks like we're not getting anywhere through the channels we have, so we need to look for other channels. We could presumably try the Open SOurce unit route?
-
dwd
ralphm, Right.
-
MattJ
I know at least one XMPP library that doesn't support that
-
dwd
Zash, They run xmpps only, right?
-
ralphm
MattJ: I had a bug report for it in Wokkel
-
dwd
Not that this matters much, mind.
-
bear
sounds like we have two angles to work with - what is exactly the technical angle on why/how gmail federates and who to work with it or around it; and a marketing angle to get everyone in the world aware that the test is happening and where google falls into that realm
-
Zash
dwd: No, _xmpp-client._tcp.gmail.com @ starttls works afaik
-
dwd
Zash, Ah-ha, I slouch corrected.
-
Simon
with RC4 :) /me shudders.
-
Laura
Bear - marketing, start with a blog post that we can all shout about and link to?
-
Kev
BTNS
-
Laura
Get the conversation started?
-
bear
laura - yes
-
bear
I think we should do blog reports that can be linked/repeated on two levels
-
ralphm
But again, the test coming from the manifesto, is strictly not an XSF effort.
-
dwd
bear, I think we need to formally approach them somehow and at least be sure they're aware. Is Chris Messina still the Open Source Guy?
-
ralphm
While I do think having some kind of liason with Google.
-
Simon
I think it's important that we show operators that they can add an exception for Google domains in their "use TLS everywhere" config.
-
Kev
ralphm: I think that, given the people involved, the public perception will be that it is.
-
bear
one for test day prep and one for us looking for someone at google to work with
-
dwd
ralphm, Yes, true. So perhaps we need to first see if our intervention is even wanted.
-
Simon
but as MattJ pointed out this isn't possible technically.
- Simon keeps forgetting that.
-
Kev
So if the XSF doesn't want to endorse it, it probably needs to say that.
-
MattJ
Simon, actually I said it's not possible with a simple black/whitelist
-
MattJ
I later said that it is possible, and I wondered if it was worth working on
-
dwd
Kev, I don't think I want the XSF to explicitly not endorse it, either. :-)
-
MattJ
(hence my interest in peoples' opinions on its worth)
-
ralphm
Kev: you want the XSF to get a community started effort to note that it is not an XSF effort. Hmm
-
Kev
dwd: Then it's implicitly endorsing it.
-
bear
ok, one take away from this is a blog style "Test Prep Report" - who can work on that?
-
Kev
dwd: In this case, I think.
-
dwd
Kev, Yes, I agree.
-
Laura
I can peer review, but don't have the tech background
-
dwd
Kev, Or just for you, I don't disagree.
-
Simon
Bear: I'm happy to write that up.
-
Laura
But can help from the marketing spin
-
bear
the majority of the discussion now I would like to suggest that we do as part of a weekly pre-board liason meeting on the google issue
-
Laura
Simon, co-share this task?
-
Simon
sure
-
bear
simon - you and laura - done
-
bear
can we get one of you all to write up a technical reasons report for the members@ list and then let the operators@ list know about it?
-
ralphm
I am also going to repeat that I don't think that *technically* GTalk can succesfully participate, even if we got bidirectional contact with googlers and have them work on it.
-
Lloyd
first real task, one of us now laura :)
-
Kev
ralphm: Why's that?
-
ralphm
Because of the certificate thing.
-
Kev
(Given that some form of TLS is all that's needed to participate)
-
ralphm
Isn't this why all of DNA was thought up?
-
MattJ
Their cert doesn't need to be valid for all their domains,just to do TLS
-
MattJ
here's a fun thing though: they'll probably want to do RC4, which folk are scrambling to disable throughout the network now :)
-
Simon
MattJ: coming back to the "is it worth it?" - having all sites, except Google, on secure connections is a huge win. Giving operators a way to achieve that using black/whitelists shouldn't be underestimated.
-
Tobias
ralphm, don't they do opportunistic TLS for STMP for hosted google apps domains?
-
Tobias
*SMTP
-
ralphm
Hmm, yes.
-
Tobias
dwd might know, since he's an email guy
-
Tobias
or you :)
-
dwd
Tobias, Possibly, I've not actually looked.
-
bear
they have steps what is required for SMTP over TLS
-
MattJ
SMTP's hostname matching is... "different", to say the least
-
MattJ
Board meeting getting technical alert
-
bear
yes, that is why I wanted those tech participants just now to summarize their concerns
-
dwd
MattJ, Yes, the suits are talking tech again.
-
bear
to the members@ list
-
ralphm
Simon: I think that no implementations currently can whitelist all GTalk domains in one swoop. Correct me if I'm wrong.
-
Tobias
MattJ, yeah...just wanted to mention that there are things we should check first before drawing such conclusions
-
MattJ
ralphm, I can do that by the end of the day though, for Prosody
- bear bangs the "let's take this to the jdev or operators list" gavel
-
Simon
Ralph: agreed - but never underestimate MattJ :)
-
ralphm
Agreed.
-
ralphm
I think the only action for us is: see if we can get into Google on this.
-
dwd
So do we have any plan for that?
-
bear
yes, that is a seperate action
-
ralphm
Irrespective of the manifesto/test
-
bear
Simon, can you email Peter and team up on the google side-channel contact
-
Simon
Bear: will do.
-
ralphm
I'm going to try, too.
-
bear
and then work with Laura to rope in Chris messina and Tim Bray (or other Google OS types)
-
MattJ
We've never had strong relations with Google (the organisation), only with individuals who can't talk for their employer
-
bear
I think we need to word some open letters to them
-
Simon
I worked with Chris Messina in another life. Will ping him.
-
bear
right, let's take this to the formal level
-
dwd
Chris has left Google, it seems.
-
bear
they have liasons for open source, let's start reaching out to them to help them
-
ralphm
I will use the liason angle this time. Maybe that helps.
-
bear
yea, but Chris will still have recent internal contacts - so talking to him won't be a waste of time IMO
-
ralphm
I am going to contact Adewale Oshineye.
-
bear
shall we declare a liason team for this: Simon, Laura, Ralph ?
-
Laura
happy to get involved
-
dwd
ralphm, I'm not sure Ade has the contacts, but worth trying. I argue with him regularly. :-)
-
ralphm
I am ok, initially. But once we have an in, I want at least one Council member for this.
-
bear
agree
-
dwd
bear, We don't actually declare liaison teams, FWIW, the Council nominates them.
-
bear
but first we need to reach out on the political level
-
ralphm
dwd: he is Developer Advocate and from my perspective, he should?
-
dwd
bear, We agreed that whole liaison procedure last meeting.
- bear edits for the pendantic
-
dwd
ralphm, Yeah, true. We can try him, certainly.
-
bear
shall we declare a working group on the board for reaching out to Google?
-
ralphm
+1
-
Simon
+1
-
Laura
+1
-
dwd
+1
-
bear
ok, done
-
Simon
Pinging https://plus.google.com/+cdibona/ (Chis Dibona ) now
-
bear
let's get the contacts made and report back next week on any progress?
-
Laura
I may need some guidance (newest to this area) but will contact people as needed
-
bear
let me know if I can help by getting Leo Laporte to put some pressure on them thru his channels
-
bear
I think we need to ensure that our message is uniform in tone and well written
-
bear
so anything after the initial ping should be done in the same voice
-
Laura
We should all be using the same words, messaging etc
-
dwd
RIght, ensuring that Google (and others) see there's a coherent and unified community behind what we're saying is important.
-
bear
so please do share drafts of the emails with each other
-
bear
is their anything else to wrangle on this topic?
-
Laura
Is there somewhere we can hare these (off email) so we all have the latest version?
-
Laura
Google doc?
-
bear
I would almost suggest the wiki
-
Laura
Wiki works. Can someone set up a page and circulate?
-
bear
i'll set up a Outreach page now
-
Laura
We should list on there who we are contatcing / needs to be contacted
-
Laura
So no duplication
-
Simon
let's add that to the wiki
-
dwd
OK, are we done on this?
-
bear
http://wiki.xmp.org/web/Outreach
-
bear
any other talk? shall we move on to next item (which I have completely forgotten what that is!)
-
Simon
+1: move on.
-
bear
ok, moving on
-
bear
what is next?
-
Kev
This is when agenda are convenient :p
-
Simon
bring the meeting to a close before anything new pops up.
-
Kev
You've not covered GSoC yet, which last week went on the agenda for this week (theoretically).
-
dwd
As did the member applications thing.
- bear curses his brain
-
bear
GSoC - we need to determine if we have anyone who will be a mentor
-
bear
without that we shouldn't apply
-
Kev
First thing is whether Board are happy that we apply, I think.
-
bear
Last year we put out a call for projects and mentors - we should do that again
-
Kev
If Board are happy, then we find whether there's support in the community.
-
bear
ok, is the board ok with applying?
- Simon is happy to mentor agian.
-
ralphm
+1 on being happy
-
dwd
I'm happy if we have the support within the community. I'd be happier if we had an org admin.
-
bear
ok, the board is happy
-
Laura
I am unaware of what this is, so will hold back opinion
-
Laura
Happy to go with majority
-
bear
I can be the org admin if we have mentors
-
Kev
Laura: Google thing each summer where they pay students to work on OSS, on behalf of OSS projects who apply for slots to give to students who apply to the orgs.
-
Kev
Laura: The XSF often acts as an umbrella project through which projects like Swift, Gajim, Prosody get students.
-
Laura
Oooh, sounds great!
-
Kev
Last year there wasn't much interest from projects in it (or not enough), so we didn't apply.
-
Kev
Usually there is and we do.
-
bear
the board has +1'd this - can we get a post to members@ about finding projects and get the wiki page started?
-
Kev
Sure, I think you appointed yourself org admin, so that's your job :)
-
bear
yep - I'll do that tonight
- bear writes task down
-
bear
ok, next item - member application form
-
bear
which dave posted to members@ about
-
bear
dwd?
-
dwd
If we're good with my proposal, I can write that up as a XEP.
-
Alex
I am fine with it
-
dwd
Obviously it's not a final choice at this stage - it becomes so when we last call and approve it.
-
bear
since it's a proposal, let's get it written and off for debate to the list
-
dwd
Any comments about the full name business? The last time this cropped up we didn't really come to a conclusion.
-
Kev
Real names are logically required.
-
bear
yes, real name + jid - that's about the minimum we should expect
-
dwd
Kev, I think so, yes. But I left is as a SHOULD because of the debate last time about Solarius.
-
Alex
real name, jid and email
-
dwd
And affiliation.
-
Kev
There was much debate last time because it wasn't covered anywhere, which essentially made it a discussion about Solarius, not about thegeneral case.
-
Alex
ya, company name or personal
-
bear
but I defer about what constitutes a real name - I would love to be just "bear"
-
Kev
There's time to talk about the general case now, and I'm not sure why we wouldn't require real name.
-
dwd
Right, yes, you remind me that a full name includes the possibility that it's a company membership, which we also allow.
-
Laura
Can we not have real name and 'nickname'?
-
dwd
Laura, Nickname hardly seems mandatory, though. :-)
-
Kev
Laura: Require people to have a nickname before they can join? :)
-
Laura
No, not required. Just a field on the form
-
Laura
If there is one, we use thsat
-
Kev
There's no form, it's just a wiki page.
-
Laura
If not, real name
-
Kev
Just that some fields are logically required.
-
bear
can we take this to the list?
-
Alex
once we decided all this stuff I create a new wiki text and a template
-
dwd
I'll write it up with full name required on what I'm hearing, and submit a XEP.
-
bear
that is what we currently do, so let's make that the first prototype
-
bear
ok, any other issues for todays meeting?
-
Kev
Only a reminder that I think we're still due last week's minutes.
-
ralphm
Kev: this was mentioned before.
-
bear
yes, I have a good hour of homework for tonight
-
dwd
I've nothing more for this time. We're on for next week?
-
Laura
*nods*
-
ralphm
+1
-
bear
unless someone vetoes next week, that will be the next meeting
- bear bangs gavel
-
bear
see you all in a week
-
Simon
bye all
-
Laura
Bye
-
bear
thanks all
-
dwd
Toodle pip.
-
bear
I have dayjob meetings now - will work up my tasks in a bit
-
ralphm
I had some back and forth with Ade. Some notes:
-
ralphm
* that we probably should make it clear that the manifesto is not the thing we (XSF) want to push, but that we want to work so that the side effect is not that everyone on GTalk gets shut out
-
ralphm
* that we also want to have ways to work on other XMPP efforts like GCS
-
Simon
GCS?
-
ralphm
eh GCM
-
Simon
ah
-
ralphm
it was called cloud services earlier
-
ralphm
and I personally would like to stress the harmful situation of the current way interoperability fails between the XMPP network, GTalk and Hangouts
- ralphm goes for dinner
-
Laura
I think I have asked this before, but now that the Board will be making approaches to Google and we are bound to get looked up - who updates this page? http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/the-xsf-board-of-directors/
-
Kev
I guess Bear.
-
Kev
Although I (and many others) have access to do it, if Bear doesn't mind.
-
Kev
Or, hrmm. Probably doesn't need asking.
-
bear
just do it Kev
-
bear
I thought i had gotten to all of the wiki pages and web pages for this new board and council
-
Kev
Laura: Did you have your blurb ready?
-
bear
heck, laura should be given credentials to do it
-
bear
she will be writing blog posts
-
bear
laura what email address is good for you - I will add you to the wp config
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Laura
laura.gill@surevine.com please
-
Kev
It has people's names on there now, at least.
-
bear
ok, she has been added
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fippo
http://www.chriskranky.com/the-need-for-speed-connecting-faster/ :-)
-
fippo
i hope that tsahi's wheels include trickle + early transport warmup
-
fippo
otherwise his webrtc car lose against my jingle one :-)
-
ralphm
Drag race!
-
MattJ
:)
-
dwd
Trickle ICE has been in Jingle since year zero pretty much, right?
-
fippo
yeah
-
fippo
it's never been really documented though
-
fippo
i still need to push emil to update 0176
-
fippo
https://twitter.com/HCornflower/status/405800002909241344 :-)
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dwd
We've allowed trickling candidates since at least 2009, I see that in 176. I'll claim we've done trickle all that time and more. :-)
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fippo
imo, emil has been doing more for trickle than ekr and justin
-
fippo
ah... it's draft-ivov-mmusic.. so it's clear.
-
fippo
ice isn't signalling...
-
fippo
erm...
-
fippo
i'll let emil handle this.
-
fippo
btw board guys still around...
-
fippo
do you want to motivate me by using the jitsi video bridge for your next meeting? :-)
-
MattJ
No, they don't
-
MattJ
unless you build in realtime text-to-speech and speech-to-text
-
MattJ
and preserve dwd's sarcasm correctly
-
bear
fippo - yes please, we have pre meeting chats that it would/could be used
-
bear
but yes, the actual meeting I feel should always be text as that allows everyone to be included
-
ralphm
we do?
-
bear
it's a new thing just started today
-
MattJ
Conspiracy
-
bear
simon, laura and my late self were talking about the new web pages
-
fippo
i think it should be ready until next week ;-)
-
fippo
bear: and after that it's talky which doesn't support the http://bloggeek.me/webrtc-federation/ argument anymore please :-)
-
MattJ
Sharing a URL is handy
-
MattJ
Until we have XMPP in the browser
-
fippo
it's not.
-
MattJ
as much as I disagree that it's federation
-
SouL
xD
-
fippo
http://hancke.name/why-send-some-a-URI-is-not-a-signalling-protocol.html
-
fippo
basically sending an url is useless unless you have a bidirectional realtime channel
-
bear
it may not be federation or signalling, but it sure makes it great for event planning
-
fippo
sure. henriks "my parents open talky.io/xx at a certain time" is a great usecase
-
MattJ
and it's not handy?
-
fippo
who own talky.io/xx?
-
bear
we haven't implemented reserved rooms yet
-
bear
on talky.io
-
fippo
awww, use xmpp :-)
-
MattJ
anonymous auth
-
ralphm
the problem is in the 'at a certain time'
-
fippo
i still think that having talky as an argument against federation is somewhat silly when henrik says "yup, talky is a silo. this is bad"
-
ralphm
Using hangouts, my wife first checks if I'm online before calling me there, when abroad.
-
bear
we are working on something that is more federated and uses xmpp
-
fippo
bear: i know :-)
-
ralphm
bear: haha, fippo is indeed, together with Lance, I assume.
-
bear
:)
-
fippo
bear: once you move over to xmpp, you get a great video bridge for free ;-)
-
bear
yep
-
bear
I would love to have the skills to work on a video muxer
-
fippo
heh. i don't either
-
fippo
but the jitsi guys have
-
bear
sure I can hack up something - but proper muxing requires mad audio/video skills
-
fippo
well... enough to avoid muxing video
-
remko
sorr for being too lazy to look this up, but what's the recommended way of submitting a change to the XEP XSL stylesheet?
-
MattJ
"email stpeter"? :)
-
Tobias
a patch to someone who has git access?
-
remko
i'll go with 'email stpeter', i'm sure he doesn't get enough email
-
Tobias
right
-
MattJ
What is the change, out of curiosity?
-
Tobias
changes font to comic sans ^^
-
remko
mattj: support for the <sub> span element
-
Tobias
what does it do? what's the use case?
-
remko
brace yourself: it adds support for a <sub> element and transforms it into ... a <sub> element
-
Tobias
what does it do for the PDF output? :)
-
remko
oh blimey, we have multiple XSL stylesheets?
-
Tobias
yup...there is a xep2texml.xsl i think
-
remko
yeah, and fo.xsl.
-
Tobias
fo.xsl is deprecated
-
remko
oh, phew
- Tobias is working on image support for the PDF too
-
bear
what file do you need changed?
-
remko
bear: xep.xsl
-
bear
k, let me get setup
-
remko
tobias: the xep2texml seems to be missing other stuff too, no? I don't see 'em' or 'pre' in there
-
Tobias
probably...it's on my todo :)
-
Tobias
those two should be easy though
-
remko
well, then <sub> should be easy too. Just add it to your todo list ;-)
-
Tobias
what does it do? subscript? so the latex _{} or so?
-
remko
yeah
-
Tobias
ah..ok
-
remko
although that's only in math; googling seems to come up with some packages to do it in plain text mode. Yay LaTeX :)
-
Tobias
heh :)
-
bear
remko - done, please sanity check the diff
-
remko
bear: thanks a bunch, i'll check it when it goes public
-
bear
yea, that is the flip side to this - do I have to poke something to get it in use
- bear submits meeting minutes for today and last week
- bear sends members@ post about GSoC
- bear goes to dinner
-
ralphm
Love the match report