bearoh! sorry about that all - left the laptop lid open and came back to find my cat sleeping on it
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Neustradamuswaqas, bear ?
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dwdintosi, Please don't suggest that anywhere near Ralph.
intosiWhat, the xmppizza instead of proper restaurant for the event?
dwdRight.
intosiI think Ralph likes the Sint-Jezuseik place as well. There's nights left at FOSDEM/summit for an xmppizza night.
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ralphmintosi: we went to Sizzle Pie's a number of nights in a row in Portland.
intosiCouple of nights in a row. Pity your stomachs.
fippoall nights except the one of the dinner as i reecall
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dwdfippo, Although there were multiple Sizzle Pies involved.
dwdfippo, You know, for a varied diet.
intosiI really missed out.
ralphmThe thing is, they had a reasonable bar, too.
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dwdThe one on the east side of the river? Yes.
fippohttps://www.dropbox.com/sh/4eoitc9vn19bkxn/fukw824CMY#lh:null-jvbrecording3.mp4 -- short screencast about the jitsi videobridge meeting webrtc ;-)
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dwdstpeter, Beat you. :-P
stpeteryeah, I noticed :-)
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fippomh... are there places with good meat in london?
KevI suspect there's some good food somewhere.
KevPerhaps the London theme could be curry instead.
intosiTypical British food, like Tikka Masala
KevYes.
dwdCan we go for a really cheap and tacky curry to annoy Mili?
KevI don't think it matters where, as long as well all have Tikka Masala and proclaim how much we like authentic Indian cuisine.
stpeterKev/intosi: :-)
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dwdMy worry about a London (only) Summit is that FOSDEM is both a useful draw for some, and excellent outreach for us.
stpeterwell, we don't have a devroom this year
KevI think the outreach aspect is dramatically reduced without a devroom.
dwdAt least, that's my only explanation for why the XSF, unlike every other SDO, has a strong European contigent.
stpeteroh
dwdcontingent, even.
stpeterI think it's because people in Europe (maybe even people in the UK :P ) care more about free software than people in North America
KevIt's not clear to me where cause and effect lies here.
dwdKev, Yes, I know we don't have a devroom this year, but I'm hoping we'll still have the lounge space, and can use that for mini-talks and demos. That would, hopefully, persuade FOSDEM to give us a room next year again.
KevLots of people meet in Europe. Lots of devs are in Europe.
KevThere's certainly an argument that causation may be at play, but which way?
KevI'm not arguing that there being a lounge again is a bad idea.
dwdI don't think in either way. I think both are effects of the appeal of the FOSDEM activity.
KevBut give me the choice of summit in London or of FOSDEM summit sans Peter, I'm going with the former.
dwdRight, but we needn't make it a choice.
Kev(I might even without the Peter element, because selfish convenience trumps all)
KevYou think we can hold two full summits within 3 weeks of each other?
dwdMy other concern is that the only draw in London beyond XMPP is IETF week, and IETF week is slightly more expensive than FOSDEM.
KevSo rather than pre-empting that people won't want to London, why not wait to see what the feel of the list is?
dwdKev, No, but I think we could easily enough hold face-to-face interop stuffs in Belgium, and a "proper" summit in London.
dwdIncidentally, I *do* think that London would be useful - we could pull along some of the IETF crowd and show them how a proper SDO works. :-)
KevAnd that people would want to travel to both? I'm doubtful, but quite open to the idea of a mail to the list seeing what the feeling is.
MattJdwd, we would need to find space in Brussels...
KevMattJ: A problem for Board :D
intosiI'd do both ;)
MattJAs if they don't have enough already ;)
dwdKev, Right. We need to find a space and get someone to pay for it.
MattJI don't know if I'd certainly do both London and Brussels if the summit moved
MattJBut I'd want to
MattJSomeone pointed out the other day that not having a devroom does give us more opportunity for outreach really, by infiltrating communities in other devrooms
dwdI'm a little concerned that if we don't do FOSDEM, then nothing at all will happen at FOSDEM, and we'll lose both the chance of a devroom again *and* the lounge space.
MattJReaching folks who perhaps dismiss XMPP and wouldn't attend the devroom talks
dwdOh, and no covert infiltration of other communities too.
Kevdwd: All that you describe is unrelated to having an event outside FOSDEM, isn't it?
MattJIt might (in fact let's be honest: it will) mean that fewer XMPP people attend FOSDEM
dwdIf there's no summit, *and* no devroom, are you going to FODEM?
dwdFOSDEM even.
fipposummons emil
fippoi think the jitsi people plan to be at fosdem
KevMe? Very probably not. Although whether I'd go to both a summit in London and one in Brussels as well is also up for debate.
MattJI don't think two European summits would help all that much
MattJMost people would probably still attend just one
dwdYes, true, we'd be competing with ourselves.
KevSplitting attendance seems more unhelpful than any other aspect.
MattJand probably the one that has stpeter :)
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dwdemcho, Emil Ivov - we get two of you?
emchoand even that is not enough!
KevNo less than we deserve.
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intosiLook what you did...
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fippoi know simon has some plans already which depend on a summit at fosdem
Emil Ivovhas no clones anymore
fippobut I sure wouldn't mind spending another two days in the mountains
KevBC or XMPP plans?
fippoBC plans
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stpeteranyway, let me see about my travel approvals, sorry to have cause a ruckus
fippostpeter: make sure you get the one for hawaii as well ;-)
MattJ:P
fippobear/lance: have you guys heard anything about certain realtime events in europe next year?
Lancenope
stpeterheehee
stpeterit's easy and cheap for me to arrange rooms at Cisco or IETF, not as easy or cheap elsewhere (e.g., random hotels in Portland)
stpeterbut I'm working on raising money, too
stpeterafter I reimburse myself for Portland expenses, we'll have only ~$5000 in the bank
stpeterI'd like to have more of a cushion than that
dwdWe'll find some cash. Easier to find some cash if we've an event to get sponsorship for, too.
stpeteran event or a program of some kind (see note about DNSSEC)
stpeterbbiaf
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dwdSpeaking of video recordings, Emil Ivov - I really liked your video about the bridge. Do you think we could run a video interview of something to stick on the XSF site?
dwdOr something. Not "of something".
dwdI meant an interview, or presentation, or something with or by you.
Emil Ivovdwd: would very much like that :)
fippo'+1
Emil Ivovdwd: (we are also thinking about doing recordings on the bridge! )
dwdEmil Ivov, Maybe you could get fippo to actually speak this time.
fippodwd: we tried, but that caused technical problems
Emil Ivovdwd: he actually seems quite talkative to me :)
fippohe's telling me of COIN all the time!
dwdfippo, Not Muji, then?
Emil Ivov:)
dwdwhistles innocently.
fippodwd: bad mistake!
dwdAnyway, children time, but we should sort something out. EVen better if the bridge can do recordings - I was going to ask about that, too.
Emil IvovI am not sure what Muji is ... COIN is this thing that actually works ... you know ... just saying
Emil Ivovdwd: yeah we are looking into it. we definitely want that! IGive us a month or so
Emil Ivovdwd: will you be in Paris next week?
ralphmRegarding FOSDEM, they way it all started was that Edwin, Christ and I decided to request a booth at FOSDEM and represent the Jabber community. Without a summit and without a devroom. That went on for a few years until we decided to request a devroom. The summit came even later.
Emil Ivovralphm: don't you find that FOSDEM's changed a bit though?
ralphmSure it has.
ralphmFOSDEM was tiny back then.
ralphmI must admit that if we don't get a booth and don't do a summit, I might consider not going.
Emil Ivovin only that way? our first years were just incredibly exciting in terms of the dialogs and meetings we had
Emil Ivovthe last couple of years have been much more standard expo-ish
Emil Ivov(I am mostly talking about the stand experience)
Emil Ivovthere's a lot less enthusiasm from potential contributors and many more people with "how are you going to amuse me today" attitude
fippo"held in some nondescript hotel ballroom, graying men shuffling around in ill fitting suits inside photo (19)little 10 x 10 booths with banners proclaiming some feat of magic" ? :-)
intosiraphm: the year you didn't go, and let Christ and me solve it ;)
ralphmEmil Ivov: I think this mostly a function of the size of FOSDEM.
ralphmintosi: I remember. Damn thesis.
Emil Ivovralphm: yes there's that
Emil Ivovralphm: but this year: no XMPP dev room, no open communications dev room ...
MattJMaybe they were worried it would get too political? :)
ralphmEmil Ivov: there is an IoT room
Emil Ivovwhich isn't RTC though
MattJThis being the year of years where open communications seem relevant
Emil Ivovok at least not human to human RTC
ralphmAll joking aside, the reason we didn't get a room for either XMPP or RTC has nothing to do with the topics or the people involved.
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MattJralphm, then?
ralphmEvery year, there are gazillion applications for devrooms, and the organisation basically has to pick and choose with the (pretty large) number of rooms they have available.
ralphmThis year, we lucked out. Yes, nothing else.
MattJSure, but what criteria do they use if not topics?
ralphmI know many people in the organisation and they love having us.
MattJSo it's just luck, and they pick rooms from a hat?
ralphmBecause we run everything smoothly and clean up and are friendly and all that.
ralphmTheir ways of selecting devrooms is not actively made public nor does it need to be.
MattJNo need to get defensive of them :)
ralphmRemember this is an all-volunteer effort, and these guys are stretched unimaginably already. We should be grateful for all the years that we did have a room. Also note that we missed out once before, and we did fine.
ralphmMattJ: I like to.
ralphmMattJ: mostly because many people have the wrong idea about them
MattJI am grateful, and I haven't said one word of criticism of them, or their decision
ralphmMattJ: I know that of you personally. I was speaking in general.
MattJBut you seemed to imply knowledge of their selection process, which is why I asked
intosiIt might involve magic imps.
intosiFor all we know.
ralphmI think they might regret not having any RTC this year.
MattJBecause I do think the lack of an open communications track anywhere is a strange omission, regardless of who made or how they made that decision
MattJBut it's their conference, and they certainly have the right to have whatever rooms they want :)
fipporalpm: certainly so after they see the video bridge in action (-:
fippowould still be happy to show it in the lounge (if we have that)
ralphmwe'll no know in 10 days
MattJLet's have everyone attend FOSDEM remotely
ralphmwe'll know
ralphmhah
fippowe just ask someone to put up some screens
ralphmfippo: where someone is 'us', I'm sure.
intosiI don't doubt that, ralphm.
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Emil Ivovralphm: sorry ralph got distracted. I didn't mean to imply any wrongdoing on FOSDEM's behalf. They have the right to make whatever topic choices their organisational community wants. I am not disputing this. However we are tech enthusiasts and, as individuals, we also have the right to be disappointed that our favorite event doesn't feature the topics that we care about
Emil Ivovand given how many of us here run on very constrainted budgets. it is perfectly legitimate that this could change our decisions to be there or not
Emil Ivov*constrained (duh)
Emil Ivov(despite the ranting we'd probably still truck most of the jitsi devs there if we get our stand/lounge again :) )
XSF Discussion - 2013-12-06