XSF Discussion - 2013-12-09

  1. dwd

    http://netsecpro.spreadshirt.de/ - I've asked Steffan Winter (the creator) if he'd mind us stealing the idea. Perfect concept for FOSDEM, I suspect.

  2. ralphm


  3. ralphm

    But would you fly with one?

  4. Zash


  5. dwd

    No, it's not a great t-shirt for airport security checkpoints.

  6. dwd

    > Would you be upset if I purloined that phrase for t-shirts for the XMPP > Standards Foundation to give away and/or sell? On one condition: I want one of those then :-) XL! Stefan

  7. Kev

    I wonder if 'chat encryption' is more XMPP that 'mass encryption'

  8. dwd

    Well, "mass encryption" is a better prhase.

  9. Kev

    It is.

  10. ralphm

    and hey, XMPP is more than chat. Tsk.

  11. Kev


  12. Kev

    But 'weapons of mass encryption' is vague and not particularly related to XMPP.

  13. Kev

    So...swings and roundabouts.

  14. dwd

    Wait, there's swings?

  15. intosi


  16. Kev

    dwd: Uhm, yes. What type of roads do /you/ drive on?

  17. intosi

    Roads? Where Dave goes, there are no roads ;)

  18. dwd

    That's true on my commute into the office.

  19. intosi

    Morning traffic was hell: major delays at the shower.

  20. dwd

    intosi, If there was actual congestion at the shower, that sounds like it might have been fun.

  21. intosi


  22. Kev

    I had major delays on the 'why on Earth did I try a jog only two days after training?'.

  23. ralphm

    Jogging. Pft. Nothing beats drumming.

  24. Kev

    I hadn't considered doing that for exercise. Might be more fun :)

  25. intosi

    Sports: drumming.

  26. ralphm


  27. intosi

    I like the sound of that.

  28. ralphm

    I think it also exercises many more different muscle areas.

  29. dwd

    So does swimming.

  30. dwd

    I wonder if you could combine the two.

  31. ralphm


  32. ralphm

    But don't do it if you're attached to your gear.

  33. dwd

    ralphm, Well, if you're attached to your gear, and your gear is at the bottom of a pool, you'd drown.

  34. intosi

    Best not to use your vDrums for that.

  35. dwd

    Although Sony ones might be waterproof, these days.

  36. dwd

    If Sony make them.

  37. ralphm

    dwd: amateur! There are ways to deal with that. Diving equipment has been around for quite some time now.

  38. intosi

    Also: hard to get your timing right.

  39. dwd writes a mail to members@ suggesting they hang around in the chatroom more.

  40. Kev

    intosi: My vDrums are going nowhere near water.

  41. dwd

    You live in Wales. Water falleth from the sky.

  42. ralphm

    Kev: do they ever go outside?

  43. Kev

    ralphm: They do not.

  44. dwd

    How did you get them in the house?

  45. Kev

    ralphm: I haven't gigged in a very very long time, and if I did I would take an acoustic kit.

  46. Kev

    dwd: Are going, not have never been.

  47. ralphm

    Ah, I sometimes take them along for a gig. I think a few times played outside, even.

  48. intosi

    ralphm: not when there was the slightest chance of rain.

  49. Kev

    I've got a set of Flats that would be as convenient as vdrums for shipping around the place, and are acoustic.

  50. dwd

    Kev, You see how confusing it gets when you don't use RFC 2119?

  51. Kev

    I don't have a 'real' acoustic kit any more.

  52. ralphm

    intosi: well, once I used them at a xmas thing. Wasn't there snow? (We were under a tent)

  53. intosi

    Lemme check, I think I still have a few pictures.

  54. intosi

    Ah, I don't have pictures of that gig. You might be right.

  55. dwd

    Ah, "You might be right" == "I lack evidence you are wrong"

  56. Kev

    Oh. My vdrums are quite a lot cheaper now than they used to be. A lot a lot, actually. How upsetting.

  57. ralphm

    Have you seen the TD-30 module, though? Pretty nice!

  58. intosi

    dwd: rightr

  59. Kev

    Mine's only the TD-4 module.

  60. intosi

    I smell G.A.S....

  61. ralphm

    I have a TD-12

  62. Kev

    Although with the mesh heads instead of the rubber mats.

  63. ralphm

    intosi: well, probably a Octapad, first (http://www.roland.com/products/en/SPD-30/)

  64. intosi

    That would be great. No more overloading of thunder or whoops on the bell of your crash ;)

  65. ralphm

    Interestingly, the white ones are less expensive than the black ones.

  66. Kev

    The octopads are cute.

  67. Kev


  68. intosi

    The cool kids pick black, the even cooler ones can get away with white.

  69. intosi

    The white one will match nicely with the mesh on your drums.

  70. ralphm

    true, but all of the /rest/ of the kit is black

  71. intosi


  72. intosi

    And to make this more XMPP-ish: your kit should set your user mood based on the way you drum

  73. Kev

    I still want an XMPP-based way of jamming.

  74. ralphm

    MIDI over XMPP doesn't seem like it would be hard

  75. ralphm

    Dealing with latency: delay a few bars

  76. Kev

    Doesn't 'delay a few bars' rather introduce latency, rather than deal with it? :)

  77. dwd

    I don't know what the delay in audio/Jingle is, but having synchronized MIDI and Jingle would be amusing.

  78. intosi

    You want hard promises on latency.

  79. dwd

    intosi, "There WILL be latency. I promise".

  80. intosi

    dwd: true, and you can anticipate, as long as you have ridig limits (not being: latency will be between 0.0 and 60.0 seconds)

  81. intosi

    But still, any noticeable latency will kill all the fun in jamming.

  82. dwd

    I wonder if you could synchronize multiple audio streams, so as long as your remotes were all playing to a metronome, you could at least do a distributed performance?

  83. ralphm

    my point was that for *jamming* having sound delayed (exactly) 4 bars might make the experience fun

  84. intosi

    That could actually work.

  85. Kev

    That might work.

  86. intosi

    So you would play something, I would hear it immediately, and you'd hear my lines four bars delayed.

  87. Kev

    Well, you'd need it delayed too, surely?

  88. ralphm


  89. intosi

    Not by the same interval as Ralph would.

  90. Kev

    So Ralph plays something at B=1, you hear it and play over at B=5, Ralph hears your stuff over B=9 that you played when you heard B=1.

  91. ralphm

    it appears that latencies <=20ms should work reasonably well

  92. intosi

    Kev: no point in me hearing Ralph's B=1 when he's at B=2 so that he can hear my first beat when he's at B=5

  93. intosi

    No issue in

  94. intosi

    You need to delay and distribute the audio anyway.

  95. fippo

    i've heard this music-over-webrtc usecase before...

  96. fippo


  97. dwd

    I wonder if it's worth pinging HTA about Google Talk.

  98. MattJ


  99. dwd

    Harald Alvestrand. Google, I *think*, IETF guy.

  100. dwd


  101. dwd

    Yep, Google.

  102. ralphm

    By the way, Chris Messina was mentioned before, but he left Google months ago.

  103. dwd

    Yes, I said as much shortly after mentioning him