XSF Discussion - 2013-12-09

http://netsecpro.spreadshirt.de/ - I've asked Steffan Winter (the creator) if he'd mind us stealing the idea. Perfect concept for FOSDEM, I suspect.

heh

But would you fly with one?

Hehe

No, it's not a great t-shirt for airport security checkpoints.

> Would you be upset if I purloined that phrase for t-shirts for the XMPP > Standards Foundation to give away and/or sell? On one condition: I want one of those then :-) XL! Stefan

I wonder if 'chat encryption' is more XMPP that 'mass encryption'

Well, "mass encryption" is a better prhase.

It is.

and hey, XMPP is more than chat. Tsk.

Indeed.

But 'weapons of mass encryption' is vague and not particularly related to XMPP.

So...swings and roundabouts.

Wait, there's swings?

Wheeeee!

dwd: Uhm, yes. What type of roads do /you/ drive on?

Roads? Where Dave goes, there are no roads ;)

That's true on my commute into the office.

Morning traffic was hell: major delays at the shower.

intosi, If there was actual congestion at the shower, that sounds like it might have been fun.

:)

I had major delays on the 'why on Earth did I try a jog only two days after training?'.

Jogging. Pft. Nothing beats drumming.

I hadn't considered doing that for exercise. Might be more fun :)

Sports: drumming.

Indeed.

I like the sound of that.

I think it also exercises many more different muscle areas.

So does swimming.

I wonder if you could combine the two.

http://vimeo.com/49273882

But don't do it if you're attached to your gear.

ralphm, Well, if you're attached to your gear, and your gear is at the bottom of a pool, you'd drown.

Best not to use your vDrums for that.

Although Sony ones might be waterproof, these days.

If Sony make them.

dwd: amateur! There are ways to deal with that. Diving equipment has been around for quite some time now.

Also: hard to get your timing right.

intosi: My vDrums are going nowhere near water.

You live in Wales. Water falleth from the sky.

Kev: do they ever go outside?

ralphm: They do not.

How did you get them in the house?

ralphm: I haven't gigged in a very very long time, and if I did I would take an acoustic kit.

dwd: Are going, not have never been.

Ah, I sometimes take them along for a gig. I think a few times played outside, even.

ralphm: not when there was the slightest chance of rain.

I've got a set of Flats that would be as convenient as vdrums for shipping around the place, and are acoustic.

Kev, You see how confusing it gets when you don't use RFC 2119?

I don't have a 'real' acoustic kit any more.

intosi: well, once I used them at a xmas thing. Wasn't there snow? (We were under a tent)

Lemme check, I think I still have a few pictures.

Ah, I don't have pictures of that gig. You might be right.

Ah, "You might be right" == "I lack evidence you are wrong"

Oh. My vdrums are quite a lot cheaper now than they used to be. A lot a lot, actually. How upsetting.

Have you seen the TD-30 module, though? Pretty nice!

dwd: rightr

Mine's only the TD-4 module.

I smell G.A.S....

I have a TD-12

Although with the mesh heads instead of the rubber mats.

intosi: well, probably a Octapad, first (http://www.roland.com/products/en/SPD-30/)

That would be great. No more overloading of thunder or whoops on the bell of your crash ;)

Interestingly, the white ones are less expensive than the black ones.

The octopads are cute.

s/to/ta/

The cool kids pick black, the even cooler ones can get away with white.

The white one will match nicely with the mesh on your drums.

true, but all of the /rest/ of the kit is black

Right.

And to make this more XMPP-ish: your kit should set your user mood based on the way you drum

I still want an XMPP-based way of jamming.

MIDI over XMPP doesn't seem like it would be hard

Dealing with latency: delay a few bars

Doesn't 'delay a few bars' rather introduce latency, rather than deal with it? :)

I don't know what the delay in audio/Jingle is, but having synchronized MIDI and Jingle would be amusing.

You want hard promises on latency.

intosi, "There WILL be latency. I promise".

dwd: true, and you can anticipate, as long as you have ridig limits (not being: latency will be between 0.0 and 60.0 seconds)

But still, any noticeable latency will kill all the fun in jamming.

I wonder if you could synchronize multiple audio streams, so as long as your remotes were all playing to a metronome, you could at least do a distributed performance?

my point was that for *jamming* having sound delayed (exactly) 4 bars might make the experience fun

That could actually work.

That might work.

So you would play something, I would hear it immediately, and you'd hear my lines four bars delayed.

Well, you'd need it delayed too, surely?

http://www.tml.tkk.fi/Opinnot/T-111.5080/2006/FPaperit/Latency_Kleimola_final.pdf

Not by the same interval as Ralph would.

So Ralph plays something at B=1, you hear it and play over at B=5, Ralph hears your stuff over B=9 that you played when you heard B=1.

it appears that latencies <=20ms should work reasonably well

Kev: no point in me hearing Ralph's B=1 when he's at B=2 so that he can hear my first beat when he's at B=5

No issue in

You need to delay and distribute the audio anyway.

i've heard this music-over-webrtc usecase before...

https://github.com/atamborrino/ztream

I wonder if it's worth pinging HTA about Google Talk.

HTA?

Harald Alvestrand. Google, I *think*, IETF guy.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/+HaraldTveitAlvestrand/posts

Yep, Google.

By the way, Chris Messina was mentioned before, but he left Google months ago.

Yes, I said as much shortly after mentioning him