XSF Discussion - 2013-12-17

  1. bear just registered xmmp.org and pointed it's A record to xmpp.org
  2. waqas Thanks bear!
  3. bear not sure how to get hover to do the dns for web forwards, gladly will point it to our nameserver if that is easier
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  37. ralphm emcho: did you get a stand, too?
  38. intosi bear: I think we can work out the details for DNS. iteam is glad to support it.
  39. bear intosi - cool - just let me know what to put as nameservers then
  40. bear oh - probably same as xmpptest.com
  41. bear i'll change it to ns1.jabber.org now
  42. bear ok, I made xmmp.org have the same nameserves as xmpptest.com
  43. intosi I'll set something up for it.
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  45. intosi bear: DNS is set up.
  46. intosi -- Checking SOA records of slaves ... xmmp.org: OK
  47. intosi Hmm, except that ns3 isn't syncing. I'll chat with Florian to fix that.
  48. bear cool
  49. intosi We had the same issue with xmpptest.com.
  50. bear cool - now xmmp.org should point to xmpp.org
  51. intosi It works for me.
  52. intosi Best thing: didn't even have to change the nginx config to make it happen.
  53. bear yea, gotta love a good nginx config
  54. bear good in this case being simple
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  56. dwd So, lots of good news yesterday, then.
  57. dwd Oh, hadn't noticed the xmmp.
  58. bear yea, set that up and then read the news from ralph and saw that the forwarded email has XMMP in it :)
  59. dwd bear, If you're up, want to Bloggerize the stand?
  60. bear sure
  61. bear shall i also mention jingle ?
  62. ralphm Yeah, I shall have a word with Wynke on that :-D
  63. dwd bear, In what sense?
  64. ralphm I'd like to know if Jitsi got a stand too
  65. ralphm but emcho isn't responding
  66. dwd emcho, ICMP_ECHO_REQUEST
  67. bear oh, yea misread that - i'll do ours now and another later
  68. dwd Two posts is better than one.
  69. ralphm summons emcho
  70. intosi raise Emcho()
  71. bear something along the lines of: The XSF is happy to annouce we will again be present at FOSDEM with the Realtime Lounge and a stand" ?
  72. ralphm 'and a stand'?
  73. bear yea, i ran out of words :/
  74. ralphm bear: some words: epic, must-see, awesome
  75. intosi Interactive, responsive design, standards-compliant?
  76. ralphm bear: unique, Jingle, IoT, demos
  77. bear http://www.piratepad.ca/p/VCq8kVvwUa
  78. ralphm bear: hah, no
  79. bear no?
  80. ralphm bear: you are drafting, we are giving you words you ran out of. Seems like a great deal.
  81. bear ah
  82. bear one sec
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  84. Kev Scalable. Secure. World-class. Cutting-Edge. Value-add. Blue-sky.
  85. Kev Am I doing this right?
  86. ralphm oh, oh, I know: synergy, solutions
  87. ralphm and WebRTC of course
  88. intosi Kev, ralphm: spot on!
  89. dwd If you're struggling, might I suggest we nudge Laura?
  90. intosi Toss in high grade encryption, too. It appears to be a popular topic.
  91. ralphm dwd: that's a great point
  92. Kev Anonymous. Strong identity. Strong authentication. Dialback.
  93. Kev bear: Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to get all of these in :p
  94. bear oh, man - the voice of reason from dave
  95. bear hell no, i'm punting as we have a real wordsmith now ;)
  96. ralphm bear: but yeah, drop the 'stand' part
  97. ralphm the lounge is the thing
  98. bear writes a members announcement
  99. bear err thingy
  100. bear yea, that
  101. ralphm we do have tables, of course
  102. ralphm but stands are what the other guys do. We're way past that :_D
  103. bear :)
  104. intosi We did stands 10 years ago, we moved on.
  105. dwd Stands are so three years ago.
  106. bear ok, request for help sent
  107. intosi Still miss our flag. Waves fist at unnamed German guy who kept it.
  108. dwd Flag?
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  110. fippo intosi: ulrich?
  111. intosi The table cloth we used
  112. intosi fippo: yeah, him :)
  113. intosi http://photo.ik.nu/v/fosdem/fosdem_2004/jabber3.jpg.html
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  115. ralphm I can always order a flag, but as I remember, the space we will be in, is not very helpful in hanging things on walls. But I suppose a table cloth could be done, still.
  116. fippo ah, i remember making plan for stealing that flag :-)
  117. dwd How about this for the basis of a second t-shirt: http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?client=ubuntu-browser&biw=1200&bih=1509&tbm=isch&tbnid=QO6_PBV7zTImmM:&imgrefurl=http://fortmissoulamuseum.org/WWII/detail.php%3Fid%3D449&docid=IX1zJvAWtJMX3M&imgurl=http://www.fortmissoulamuseum.org/WWII/images/posters/1986.004.439.jpg&w=800&h=1120&ei=lBawUuXyGsOThQeWwYDABg&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:63,s:0,i:278&iact=rc&page=2&tbnh=192&tbnw=137&start=49&ndsp=58&tx=67&ty=81
  118. intosi http://photo.ik.nu/v/fosdem/fosdem_2004/jabber1.jpg.html
  119. intosi Look at the size of that monitor...
  120. bear I have one of those in the basement
  121. bear ugh, I really should send it to a recycle center
  122. ralphm I am looking at the site I ordered the flag from last time.
  123. intosi This one was mine, I gave it away together with the SGI that used to be attached to it.
  124. ralphm They also do custom fatboys
  125. Zash That sounds like the bomb
  126. intosi That's very loungy.
  127. bear that sounds like a great sponsor thingy
  128. bear should really go to bed now
  129. bear my word selection is regressing
  130. ralphm How many colors?
  131. dwd Depends what's on it. What's the cost?
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  133. ralphm (the Jabber logo has 2, the XMPP logo has 5 (+ shades), Real Time logo has 2. Add 1 for text)
  134. ralphm dwd: I don't know, that's why I need to know the number of colors. They don't list prices on the site)
  135. Kev I think we should probably just give up on 'Jabber' at this point :/
  136. ralphm Kev: it shows you were not present at the summit
  137. Kev You think being at the summit would persuade me that we shouldn't?
  138. ralphm Well, at the very least there was no consensus against reusing Jabber
  139. Kev The trademark's now owned by a company using it to refer to a competing system. I don't see how it's good to keep using it.
  140. ralphm I don't see how that matters in practice.
  141. Kev "Buyer" confusion.
  142. ralphm The Jabber name is still widely regarded to refer to what we do, and they only ones that are going to be confused are the Cisco Marketing people
  143. Kev I don't think that's true.
  144. dwd Actually the buyer confusion is very much on our side. End users particularly are still very much using the Jabber term for XMPP based IM solutions.
  145. ralphm who will ask legal and then find out that we can do what we want with the trademark
  146. Kev XMPP (the protocol, not the name) actually has a reasonable amount of penetration, and if we say "You should call it Jabber", the people who want it say "Buy us a Jabber system please", and the purchasers then buy "Cisco Jabber", this is not a good thing for us.
  147. Kev ralphm: It's not a question of being able to do what we want with it, it's whether using it is helpful.
  148. dwd Kev, XMPP has penetration in terms of technologists and developers.
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  151. Kev dwd: Yes. So the end users say "Get us a Jabber system", and procurement buy a Cisco Jabber system.
  152. dwd Kev, Jabber has penetration as a consumer-grade network.
  153. fippo and jabber has penetration in terms of CIOs
  154. fippo bear: I think it would help to mention IOT in the announcement as well
  155. bear fippo - post that as a reply so i remember - i'm going to go find my bed and crawl into it
  156. bear waves
  157. Kev bear: GN.
  158. intosi nn
  159. emcho heya
  160. ralphm emcho: hey
  161. ralphm emcho: did you guys get a stand at FOSDEM as well?
  162. emcho yes got it
  163. emcho and a lightning talk as well
  164. ralphm awesome
  165. emcho two tables
  166. intosi emcho: good news!
  167. emcho right!
  168. emcho seems like we'll be able to rebuild last year's RTL
  169. intosi If we include the right bytes, it will be LTR
  170. emcho or change it of course
  171. emcho maybe this year we could do it a bit differently actually
  172. emcho last year the loungy area was kind of barred by the tables
  173. emcho so it wasn't evident that it was free access
  174. emcho (or maybe that was the intention?)
  175. emcho so maybe this year we could have the tables at one side and the loungy area at the other
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  179. ralphm emcho: well, one of the problems is that the area is also a passthrough for people that need to use the elevator
  180. ralphm (like weelchairs)
  181. ralphm wheel
  182. emcho yeah sure, but we wouldn't block it. laste year had this: [wall][--emptyspace--][tables][lounge] what we could try is this: [wall][tables][--emptyspace--][lounge]
  183. intosi There's not a lot of wall usable for that. There's the exit of the lecture hall as well.
  184. emcho well we could experiment. we are certainly OK with last year's arrangement
  185. emcho we could also reverse the tables so that the XSF is seen before jitsi this time
  186. fippo we can also stream the xsf table to the jitsi table ,-)
  187. dwd Don't cross the streams.
  188. dwd Or was that something else?
  189. intosi dwd: no, that's for this.
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  191. ralphm intosi: as far as I remember, that exit should not be used during FOSDEM and we might put a sign to that effect on the inside
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  193. dwd Rough design of my "Enemy Listening" concept to the list.
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  200. dwd Nobody has any comments on t-shirt designs? That's got to be a first.
  201. Zash Lunch coma
  202. dwd The one I'm parodying is here: http://www.fortmissoulamuseum.org/WWII/images/posters/1986.004.439.jpg
  203. dwd Ooooh. That thumbnails with Gajim and the right plugins. Purr-tee!
  204. Zash http://pics.zash.se/531867ea.jpeg
  205. Zash Nice, IP address leakage
  206. Zash Mr Dave Cridland
  207. dwd Well, yes.
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  209. dwd So, can't decide between "Encrypt you talk" and "Encrypt your speech". Maybe even "Encrypt for Freedom". Also, I don't like "Don't use silos", I think it's dull.
  210. dwd "Secure your server", maybe?
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  212. intosi Secure your server would be better.
  213. intosi Or Encrypt your s2s
  214. intosi or comms instead of s2s
  215. Zash Secure Your Server sounds pretty good
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  217. dwd How about that, then?
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  231. MattJ "I have seen the enemy, and he is us. Secure your server!"
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  233. emcho "Winter is coming!"
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  235. ralphm "Encrypt your jabber" would bring out the original meaning of the word :-D
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  242. dwd Usually, any t-shirt discussions spawn an endless and depressing bikeshed discussion. This year, everyone seems scarily quiet.
  243. Zash The calm before the storm?
  244. ralphm I blame it on the US being asleep still
  245. dwd Ah, they may all be in the STOX interim, I suppose.
  246. dwd I want a better word than "encrypt". I'm tempted to use "Encipher", just for the period.
  247. dwd What about "Keep that Jabber secret"?
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  250. stpeter is indeed in the STOX interim conference call
  251. fippo stpeter: you're in a loop ;-)
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  253. dwd What sort of numbers of t-shirts do we want this year, BTW?
  254. Zash Integer numbers.
  255. dwd Sounds rational.
  256. Zash Naturally
  257. ralphm Get real!
  258. MattJ Considering we don't have any actual number to discuss yet, doesn't that make it imaginary?
  259. dwd I can't remember how many we got last time I rodered them, which doesn't help.
  260. MattJ This is the most productive room I'm in
  261. ralphm dwd: that's making things complex
  262. fippo stpeter: foundation bug is already noted in http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/User:Fippo#XEP_0176
  263. ralphm dwd: what about "Jabber in code"?
  264. fippo quick poll: you're allowed to send an <iq/> to a bare jid (even a jingle session-initiate), right?
  265. ralphm yes
  266. MattJ Sure
  267. ralphm but a server must reply on the account's behalf
  268. MattJ Right
  269. Lance it probably won't do what you want, but you can
  270. fippo right. or a stox pstn gateway
  271. Kev But if you want servers to handle jingle for you, it's fine.
  272. fippo ah, we'll have to discuss that on the stox list
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  274. stpeter fippo: thanks -- it would indeed be good to fix the bugs in those specs
  275. fippo stpeter: yeah... if I only had more time :-/
  276. stpeter fippo: yeah, I hear you!
  277. Kev Agendawriting time for Council - fippo, are your updated specs ready to go in the inbox?
  278. stpeter Kev: I received your email, will reply shortly
  279. Kev stpeter: No rush.
  280. fippo kev: yeah, i think it's just the html in the inbox that needs to be updated
  281. fippo stpeter: heh, I managed to do a thourough review of stox-media in the last 90 minutes at least :-)
  282. stpeter :P
  283. stpeter brb
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  285. Kev fippo: Do you have home-rendered versions anywhere?
  286. Kev If it's already checked into Git. Saves Peter publishing again.
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  288. fippo kev: inbox doesn't seem to contain any .html -- https://github.com/fippo/customxeps/tree/gh-pages/extensions has html, too
  289. Kev https://github.com/fippo/customxeps/blob/gh-pages/extensions/jingle-sources.html and https://github.com/fippo/customxeps/blob/gh-pages/extensions/jingle-grouping.html ?
  290. fippo yes
  291. Kev Urgh.
  292. Lance http://fippo.github.io/customxeps/extensions/jingle-sources.html
  293. Kev https://raw.github.com/fippo/customxeps/gh-pages/extensions/jingle-sources.html doesn't work :(
  294. Lance http://fippo.github.io/customxeps/extensions/jingle-grouping.html
  295. Kev Ah, ta.
  296. Kev Lance: Nothing to do with peptzo, right?
  297. Lance No, I haven't had time to write a XEP-80 update proposal
  298. Lance still not sure which approach is better
  299. Zash Lance: Update with what?
  300. Lance Adding current time zone offset
  301. Zash Ah
  302. Lance I had a proposal to just add that in PEP, but there were comments that it would fit better in GeoLoc
  303. dwd I think it does fit there, but logistically it might be easier to split it off.
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  323. fippo bear: can you bring the sign from http://www.flickr.com/photos/andyet-photos/10370068076/ along, too? :-)
  324. fippo http://www.ucstrategies.com/unified-communications-expert-views/business-to-business-uc-collaboration.aspx -- *sigh*
  325. fippo "For example, company A, which requires XMPP over TLS connection, can still connect to company B which uses XMPP over TCP with dial-back."
  326. fippo that annoys me enough to register even
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  328. bear do we have numbers and cost info from the last tshirt purchase? I'm asking if &yet can help with some of this and they will need a ballpark figure
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  332. stpeter bear: I have that information, but it's at the Cisco office and I'm working at home today
  333. bear no worries - i'm just gathering data
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  335. stpeter hmm
  336. stpeter reading http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-bylaws/ Section 8.3 (on "Work Teams"), I conclude that we need to actually establish the UPnP Forum liaison team, with a charter and all, so we might be putting the cart before the horse to ask for volunteers at this time
  337. stpeter I'll post to the members@ list about it
  338. fippo stpeter: did we do that for the jingle work team?
  339. fippo (even though that ended up in a different way :-)
  340. stpeter not really, so that team is null and void! ;-)
  341. fippo poor dwd
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  345. stpeter message sent to the list
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  347. fippo the upnp guys are in portland?
  348. fippo (well, depending on the definition of "guys" obviously)
  349. MattJ Was UPnP invented in the 90s by any chance?
  350. Zash The one that's based on SOAP over HTTP over UDP?
  351. MattJ Yes
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  360. stpeter well, they are all over the world -- I don't think they are "in" any specific place
  361. ralphm not just the world, universal!
  362. stpeter heehee
  363. ralphm but yeah, a consortium
  364. ralphm I know people from Philips working on it, while I was there in 2003
  365. stpeter maybe the XSF could be located at the geographic center of all its members -- probably somewhere over the Atlantic Ocean :-)
  366. MattJ :)
  367. Zash Or under
  368. stpeter some would say we're all wet, so sure
  369. ralphm good old, design by committee, everyone getting their exceptions and/or IP in
  370. stpeter yep, most SDOs are like that, it seems
  371. stpeter yay, got down below 9000 messages in my inbox ;-)
  372. stpeter something to do over the holidays...
  373. waqas stpeter: Weren't you at inbox zero at some point?
  374. stpeter at some point
  375. stpeter it happens once in a while
  376. stpeter and then it explodes
  377. ralphm do mailinglist posts count?
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  379. stpeter ralphm: I don't differentiate
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  383. ralphm stpeter: oh
  384. waqas Mailing list posts are auto-labelled and don't go in my inbox. I have most emails auto-labelled.
  385. stpeter BTW it seems that Joe Hildebrand might be at FOSDEM for sure, so we could still hold meetings at the Cisco offices even if I'm not able to travel
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  387. ralphm woot
  388. ralphm go hildjj
  389. Zash aha
  390. stpeter should know soon if that will pan out
  391. Zash "might .. for sure" :D
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  393. stpeter he said so yesterday, but I want to verify
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  395. Zash "60% of the time, it works every time"
  396. stpeter but yes, a poorly constructed sentence, that was
  397. ralphm I have 971 unread messages on standards@
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  399. ralphm maybe I should give up on those
  400. ralphm some go back to 2010 :-D
  401. stpeter :/
  402. Zash "Mark as read" is your friend
  403. bear getting info on fosdem is great news - i've been trying to keep the two events raised at work so they know what is coming
  404. ralphm I'd love to see a bunch of &yetis
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  407. bear with two events it would be tough to have a large showing, but each event has it's own sales/tech reasons - i'm gathering data for both to make the pitch
  408. stpeter nods
  409. stpeter thanks, bear!
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  411. stpeter bbiaw
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