XSF Discussion - 2013-12-17

  1. bear just registered xmmp.org and pointed it's A record to xmpp.org

  2. waqas

    Thanks bear!

  3. bear

    not sure how to get hover to do the dns for web forwards, gladly will point it to our nameserver if that is easier

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  37. ralphm

    emcho: did you get a stand, too?

  38. intosi

    bear: I think we can work out the details for DNS. iteam is glad to support it.

  39. bear

    intosi - cool - just let me know what to put as nameservers then

  40. bear

    oh - probably same as xmpptest.com

  41. bear

    i'll change it to ns1.jabber.org now

  42. bear

    ok, I made xmmp.org have the same nameserves as xmpptest.com

  43. intosi

    I'll set something up for it.

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  45. intosi

    bear: DNS is set up.

  46. intosi

    -- Checking SOA records of slaves ... xmmp.org: OK

  47. intosi

    Hmm, except that ns3 isn't syncing. I'll chat with Florian to fix that.

  48. bear


  49. intosi

    We had the same issue with xmpptest.com.

  50. bear

    cool - now xmmp.org should point to xmpp.org

  51. intosi

    It works for me.

  52. intosi

    Best thing: didn't even have to change the nginx config to make it happen.

  53. bear

    yea, gotta love a good nginx config

  54. bear

    good in this case being simple

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  56. dwd

    So, lots of good news yesterday, then.

  57. dwd

    Oh, hadn't noticed the xmmp.

  58. bear

    yea, set that up and then read the news from ralph and saw that the forwarded email has XMMP in it :)

  59. dwd

    bear, If you're up, want to Bloggerize the stand?

  60. bear


  61. bear

    shall i also mention jingle ?

  62. ralphm

    Yeah, I shall have a word with Wynke on that :-D

  63. dwd

    bear, In what sense?

  64. ralphm

    I'd like to know if Jitsi got a stand too

  65. ralphm

    but emcho isn't responding

  66. dwd


  67. bear

    oh, yea misread that - i'll do ours now and another later

  68. dwd

    Two posts is better than one.

  69. ralphm summons emcho

  70. intosi

    raise Emcho()

  71. bear

    something along the lines of: The XSF is happy to annouce we will again be present at FOSDEM with the Realtime Lounge and a stand" ?

  72. ralphm

    'and a stand'?

  73. bear

    yea, i ran out of words :/

  74. ralphm

    bear: some words: epic, must-see, awesome

  75. intosi

    Interactive, responsive design, standards-compliant?

  76. ralphm

    bear: unique, Jingle, IoT, demos

  77. bear


  78. ralphm

    bear: hah, no

  79. bear


  80. ralphm

    bear: you are drafting, we are giving you words you ran out of. Seems like a great deal.

  81. bear


  82. bear

    one sec

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  84. Kev

    Scalable. Secure. World-class. Cutting-Edge. Value-add. Blue-sky.

  85. Kev

    Am I doing this right?

  86. ralphm

    oh, oh, I know: synergy, solutions

  87. ralphm

    and WebRTC of course

  88. intosi

    Kev, ralphm: spot on!

  89. dwd

    If you're struggling, might I suggest we nudge Laura?

  90. intosi

    Toss in high grade encryption, too. It appears to be a popular topic.

  91. ralphm

    dwd: that's a great point

  92. Kev

    Anonymous. Strong identity. Strong authentication. Dialback.

  93. Kev

    bear: Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to get all of these in :p

  94. bear

    oh, man - the voice of reason from dave

  95. bear

    hell no, i'm punting as we have a real wordsmith now ;)

  96. ralphm

    bear: but yeah, drop the 'stand' part

  97. ralphm

    the lounge is the thing

  98. bear writes a members announcement

  99. bear

    err thingy

  100. bear

    yea, that

  101. ralphm

    we do have tables, of course

  102. ralphm

    but stands are what the other guys do. We're way past that :_D

  103. bear


  104. intosi

    We did stands 10 years ago, we moved on.

  105. dwd

    Stands are so three years ago.

  106. bear

    ok, request for help sent

  107. intosi

    Still miss our flag. Waves fist at unnamed German guy who kept it.

  108. dwd


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  110. fippo

    intosi: ulrich?

  111. intosi

    The table cloth we used

  112. intosi

    fippo: yeah, him :)

  113. intosi


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  115. ralphm

    I can always order a flag, but as I remember, the space we will be in, is not very helpful in hanging things on walls. But I suppose a table cloth could be done, still.

  116. fippo

    ah, i remember making plan for stealing that flag :-)

  117. dwd

    How about this for the basis of a second t-shirt: http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?client=ubuntu-browser&biw=1200&bih=1509&tbm=isch&tbnid=QO6_PBV7zTImmM:&imgrefurl=http://fortmissoulamuseum.org/WWII/detail.php%3Fid%3D449&docid=IX1zJvAWtJMX3M&imgurl=http://www.fortmissoulamuseum.org/WWII/images/posters/1986.004.439.jpg&w=800&h=1120&ei=lBawUuXyGsOThQeWwYDABg&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:63,s:0,i:278&iact=rc&page=2&tbnh=192&tbnw=137&start=49&ndsp=58&tx=67&ty=81

  118. intosi


  119. intosi

    Look at the size of that monitor...

  120. bear

    I have one of those in the basement

  121. bear

    ugh, I really should send it to a recycle center

  122. ralphm

    I am looking at the site I ordered the flag from last time.

  123. intosi

    This one was mine, I gave it away together with the SGI that used to be attached to it.

  124. ralphm

    They also do custom fatboys

  125. Zash

    That sounds like the bomb

  126. intosi

    That's very loungy.

  127. bear

    that sounds like a great sponsor thingy

  128. bear should really go to bed now

  129. bear

    my word selection is regressing

  130. ralphm

    How many colors?

  131. dwd

    Depends what's on it. What's the cost?

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  133. ralphm

    (the Jabber logo has 2, the XMPP logo has 5 (+ shades), Real Time logo has 2. Add 1 for text)

  134. ralphm

    dwd: I don't know, that's why I need to know the number of colors. They don't list prices on the site)

  135. Kev

    I think we should probably just give up on 'Jabber' at this point :/

  136. ralphm

    Kev: it shows you were not present at the summit

  137. Kev

    You think being at the summit would persuade me that we shouldn't?

  138. ralphm

    Well, at the very least there was no consensus against reusing Jabber

  139. Kev

    The trademark's now owned by a company using it to refer to a competing system. I don't see how it's good to keep using it.

  140. ralphm

    I don't see how that matters in practice.

  141. Kev

    "Buyer" confusion.

  142. ralphm

    The Jabber name is still widely regarded to refer to what we do, and they only ones that are going to be confused are the Cisco Marketing people

  143. Kev

    I don't think that's true.

  144. dwd

    Actually the buyer confusion is very much on our side. End users particularly are still very much using the Jabber term for XMPP based IM solutions.

  145. ralphm

    who will ask legal and then find out that we can do what we want with the trademark

  146. Kev

    XMPP (the protocol, not the name) actually has a reasonable amount of penetration, and if we say "You should call it Jabber", the people who want it say "Buy us a Jabber system please", and the purchasers then buy "Cisco Jabber", this is not a good thing for us.

  147. Kev

    ralphm: It's not a question of being able to do what we want with it, it's whether using it is helpful.

  148. dwd

    Kev, XMPP has penetration in terms of technologists and developers.

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  151. Kev

    dwd: Yes. So the end users say "Get us a Jabber system", and procurement buy a Cisco Jabber system.

  152. dwd

    Kev, Jabber has penetration as a consumer-grade network.

  153. fippo

    and jabber has penetration in terms of CIOs

  154. fippo

    bear: I think it would help to mention IOT in the announcement as well

  155. bear

    fippo - post that as a reply so i remember - i'm going to go find my bed and crawl into it

  156. bear waves

  157. Kev

    bear: GN.

  158. intosi


  159. emcho


  160. ralphm

    emcho: hey

  161. ralphm

    emcho: did you guys get a stand at FOSDEM as well?

  162. emcho

    yes got it

  163. emcho

    and a lightning talk as well

  164. ralphm


  165. emcho

    two tables

  166. intosi

    emcho: good news!

  167. emcho


  168. emcho

    seems like we'll be able to rebuild last year's RTL

  169. intosi

    If we include the right bytes, it will be LTR

  170. emcho

    or change it of course

  171. emcho

    maybe this year we could do it a bit differently actually

  172. emcho

    last year the loungy area was kind of barred by the tables

  173. emcho

    so it wasn't evident that it was free access

  174. emcho

    (or maybe that was the intention?)

  175. emcho

    so maybe this year we could have the tables at one side and the loungy area at the other

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  179. ralphm

    emcho: well, one of the problems is that the area is also a passthrough for people that need to use the elevator

  180. ralphm

    (like weelchairs)

  181. ralphm


  182. emcho

    yeah sure, but we wouldn't block it. laste year had this: [wall][--emptyspace--][tables][lounge] what we could try is this: [wall][tables][--emptyspace--][lounge]

  183. intosi

    There's not a lot of wall usable for that. There's the exit of the lecture hall as well.

  184. emcho

    well we could experiment. we are certainly OK with last year's arrangement

  185. emcho

    we could also reverse the tables so that the XSF is seen before jitsi this time

  186. fippo

    we can also stream the xsf table to the jitsi table ,-)

  187. dwd

    Don't cross the streams.

  188. dwd

    Or was that something else?

  189. intosi

    dwd: no, that's for this.

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  191. ralphm

    intosi: as far as I remember, that exit should not be used during FOSDEM and we might put a sign to that effect on the inside

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  193. dwd

    Rough design of my "Enemy Listening" concept to the list.

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  200. dwd

    Nobody has any comments on t-shirt designs? That's got to be a first.

  201. Zash

    Lunch coma

  202. dwd

    The one I'm parodying is here: http://www.fortmissoulamuseum.org/WWII/images/posters/1986.004.439.jpg

  203. dwd

    Ooooh. That thumbnails with Gajim and the right plugins. Purr-tee!

  204. Zash


  205. Zash

    Nice, IP address leakage

  206. Zash

    Mr Dave Cridland

  207. dwd

    Well, yes.

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  209. dwd

    So, can't decide between "Encrypt you talk" and "Encrypt your speech". Maybe even "Encrypt for Freedom". Also, I don't like "Don't use silos", I think it's dull.

  210. dwd

    "Secure your server", maybe?

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  212. intosi

    Secure your server would be better.

  213. intosi

    Or Encrypt your s2s

  214. intosi

    or comms instead of s2s

  215. Zash

    Secure Your Server sounds pretty good

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  217. dwd

    How about that, then?

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  231. MattJ

    "I have seen the enemy, and he is us. Secure your server!"

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  233. emcho

    "Winter is coming!"

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  235. ralphm

    "Encrypt your jabber" would bring out the original meaning of the word :-D

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  242. dwd

    Usually, any t-shirt discussions spawn an endless and depressing bikeshed discussion. This year, everyone seems scarily quiet.

  243. Zash

    The calm before the storm?

  244. ralphm

    I blame it on the US being asleep still

  245. dwd

    Ah, they may all be in the STOX interim, I suppose.

  246. dwd

    I want a better word than "encrypt". I'm tempted to use "Encipher", just for the period.

  247. dwd

    What about "Keep that Jabber secret"?

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  250. stpeter is indeed in the STOX interim conference call

  251. fippo

    stpeter: you're in a loop ;-)

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  253. dwd

    What sort of numbers of t-shirts do we want this year, BTW?

  254. Zash

    Integer numbers.

  255. dwd

    Sounds rational.

  256. Zash


  257. ralphm

    Get real!

  258. MattJ

    Considering we don't have any actual number to discuss yet, doesn't that make it imaginary?

  259. dwd

    I can't remember how many we got last time I rodered them, which doesn't help.

  260. MattJ

    This is the most productive room I'm in

  261. ralphm

    dwd: that's making things complex

  262. fippo

    stpeter: foundation bug is already noted in http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/User:Fippo#XEP_0176

  263. ralphm

    dwd: what about "Jabber in code"?

  264. fippo

    quick poll: you're allowed to send an <iq/> to a bare jid (even a jingle session-initiate), right?

  265. ralphm


  266. MattJ


  267. ralphm

    but a server must reply on the account's behalf

  268. MattJ


  269. Lance

    it probably won't do what you want, but you can

  270. fippo

    right. or a stox pstn gateway

  271. Kev

    But if you want servers to handle jingle for you, it's fine.

  272. fippo

    ah, we'll have to discuss that on the stox list

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  274. stpeter

    fippo: thanks -- it would indeed be good to fix the bugs in those specs

  275. fippo

    stpeter: yeah... if I only had more time :-/

  276. stpeter

    fippo: yeah, I hear you!

  277. Kev

    Agendawriting time for Council - fippo, are your updated specs ready to go in the inbox?

  278. stpeter

    Kev: I received your email, will reply shortly

  279. Kev

    stpeter: No rush.

  280. fippo

    kev: yeah, i think it's just the html in the inbox that needs to be updated

  281. fippo

    stpeter: heh, I managed to do a thourough review of stox-media in the last 90 minutes at least :-)

  282. stpeter


  283. stpeter


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  285. Kev

    fippo: Do you have home-rendered versions anywhere?

  286. Kev

    If it's already checked into Git. Saves Peter publishing again.

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  288. fippo

    kev: inbox doesn't seem to contain any .html -- https://github.com/fippo/customxeps/tree/gh-pages/extensions has html, too

  289. Kev

    https://github.com/fippo/customxeps/blob/gh-pages/extensions/jingle-sources.html and https://github.com/fippo/customxeps/blob/gh-pages/extensions/jingle-grouping.html ?

  290. fippo


  291. Kev


  292. Lance


  293. Kev

    https://raw.github.com/fippo/customxeps/gh-pages/extensions/jingle-sources.html doesn't work :(

  294. Lance


  295. Kev

    Ah, ta.

  296. Kev

    Lance: Nothing to do with peptzo, right?

  297. Lance

    No, I haven't had time to write a XEP-80 update proposal

  298. Lance

    still not sure which approach is better

  299. Zash

    Lance: Update with what?

  300. Lance

    Adding current time zone offset

  301. Zash


  302. Lance

    I had a proposal to just add that in PEP, but there were comments that it would fit better in GeoLoc

  303. dwd

    I think it does fit there, but logistically it might be easier to split it off.

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  323. fippo

    bear: can you bring the sign from http://www.flickr.com/photos/andyet-photos/10370068076/ along, too? :-)

  324. fippo

    http://www.ucstrategies.com/unified-communications-expert-views/business-to-business-uc-collaboration.aspx -- *sigh*

  325. fippo

    "For example, company A, which requires XMPP over TLS connection, can still connect to company B which uses XMPP over TCP with dial-back."

  326. fippo

    that annoys me enough to register even

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  328. bear

    do we have numbers and cost info from the last tshirt purchase? I'm asking if &yet can help with some of this and they will need a ballpark figure

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  332. stpeter

    bear: I have that information, but it's at the Cisco office and I'm working at home today

  333. bear

    no worries - i'm just gathering data

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  335. stpeter


  336. stpeter

    reading http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-bylaws/ Section 8.3 (on "Work Teams"), I conclude that we need to actually establish the UPnP Forum liaison team, with a charter and all, so we might be putting the cart before the horse to ask for volunteers at this time

  337. stpeter

    I'll post to the members@ list about it

  338. fippo

    stpeter: did we do that for the jingle work team?

  339. fippo

    (even though that ended up in a different way :-)

  340. stpeter

    not really, so that team is null and void! ;-)

  341. fippo

    poor dwd

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  345. stpeter

    message sent to the list

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  347. fippo

    the upnp guys are in portland?

  348. fippo

    (well, depending on the definition of "guys" obviously)

  349. MattJ

    Was UPnP invented in the 90s by any chance?

  350. Zash

    The one that's based on SOAP over HTTP over UDP?

  351. MattJ


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  360. stpeter

    well, they are all over the world -- I don't think they are "in" any specific place

  361. ralphm

    not just the world, universal!

  362. stpeter


  363. ralphm

    but yeah, a consortium

  364. ralphm

    I know people from Philips working on it, while I was there in 2003

  365. stpeter

    maybe the XSF could be located at the geographic center of all its members -- probably somewhere over the Atlantic Ocean :-)

  366. MattJ


  367. Zash

    Or under

  368. stpeter

    some would say we're all wet, so sure

  369. ralphm

    good old, design by committee, everyone getting their exceptions and/or IP in

  370. stpeter

    yep, most SDOs are like that, it seems

  371. stpeter

    yay, got down below 9000 messages in my inbox ;-)

  372. stpeter

    something to do over the holidays...

  373. waqas

    stpeter: Weren't you at inbox zero at some point?

  374. stpeter

    at some point

  375. stpeter

    it happens once in a while

  376. stpeter

    and then it explodes

  377. ralphm

    do mailinglist posts count?

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  379. stpeter

    ralphm: I don't differentiate

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  383. ralphm

    stpeter: oh

  384. waqas

    Mailing list posts are auto-labelled and don't go in my inbox. I have most emails auto-labelled.

  385. stpeter

    BTW it seems that Joe Hildebrand might be at FOSDEM for sure, so we could still hold meetings at the Cisco offices even if I'm not able to travel

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  387. ralphm


  388. ralphm

    go hildjj

  389. Zash


  390. stpeter

    should know soon if that will pan out

  391. Zash

    "might .. for sure" :D

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  393. stpeter

    he said so yesterday, but I want to verify

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  395. Zash

    "60% of the time, it works every time"

  396. stpeter

    but yes, a poorly constructed sentence, that was

  397. ralphm

    I have 971 unread messages on standards@

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  399. ralphm

    maybe I should give up on those

  400. ralphm

    some go back to 2010 :-D

  401. stpeter


  402. Zash

    "Mark as read" is your friend

  403. bear

    getting info on fosdem is great news - i've been trying to keep the two events raised at work so they know what is coming

  404. ralphm

    I'd love to see a bunch of &yetis

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  407. bear

    with two events it would be tough to have a large showing, but each event has it's own sales/tech reasons - i'm gathering data for both to make the pitch

  408. stpeter nods

  409. stpeter

    thanks, bear!

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  411. stpeter


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