ralphmI can always order a flag, but as I remember, the space we will be in, is not very helpful in hanging things on walls. But I suppose a table cloth could be done, still.
fippoah, i remember making plan for stealing that flag :-)
dwdHow about this for the basis of a second t-shirt: http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?client=ubuntu-browser&biw=1200&bih=1509&tbm=isch&tbnid=QO6_PBV7zTImmM:&imgrefurl=http://fortmissoulamuseum.org/WWII/detail.php%3Fid%3D449&docid=IX1zJvAWtJMX3M&imgurl=http://www.fortmissoulamuseum.org/WWII/images/posters/1986.004.439.jpg&w=800&h=1120&ei=lBawUuXyGsOThQeWwYDABg&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:63,s:0,i:278&iact=rc&page=2&tbnh=192&tbnw=137&start=49&ndsp=58&tx=67&ty=81
bearugh, I really should send it to a recycle center
ralphmI am looking at the site I ordered the flag from last time.
intosiThis one was mine, I gave it away together with the SGI that used to be attached to it.
ralphmThey also do custom fatboys
ZashThat sounds like the bomb
intosiThat's very loungy.
bearthat sounds like a great sponsor thingy
bearshould really go to bed now
bearmy word selection is regressing
ralphmHow many colors?
dwdDepends what's on it. What's the cost?
ralphm(the Jabber logo has 2, the XMPP logo has 5 (+ shades), Real Time logo has 2. Add 1 for text)
ralphmdwd: I don't know, that's why I need to know the number of colors. They don't list prices on the site)
KevI think we should probably just give up on 'Jabber' at this point :/
ralphmKev: it shows you were not present at the summit
KevYou think being at the summit would persuade me that we shouldn't?
ralphmWell, at the very least there was no consensus against reusing Jabber
KevThe trademark's now owned by a company using it to refer to a competing system. I don't see how it's good to keep using it.
ralphmI don't see how that matters in practice.
ralphmThe Jabber name is still widely regarded to refer to what we do, and they only ones that are going to be confused are the Cisco Marketing people
KevI don't think that's true.
dwdActually the buyer confusion is very much on our side. End users particularly are still very much using the Jabber term for XMPP based IM solutions.
ralphmwho will ask legal and then find out that we can do what we want with the trademark
KevXMPP (the protocol, not the name) actually has a reasonable amount of penetration, and if we say "You should call it Jabber", the people who want it say "Buy us a Jabber system please", and the purchasers then buy "Cisco Jabber", this is not a good thing for us.
Kevralphm: It's not a question of being able to do what we want with it, it's whether using it is helpful.
dwdKev, XMPP has penetration in terms of technologists and developers.
Kevdwd: Yes. So the end users say "Get us a Jabber system", and procurement buy a Cisco Jabber system.
dwdKev, Jabber has penetration as a consumer-grade network.
fippoand jabber has penetration in terms of CIOs
fippobear: I think it would help to mention IOT in the announcement as well
bearfippo - post that as a reply so i remember - i'm going to go find my bed and crawl into it
ralphmemcho: did you guys get a stand at FOSDEM as well?
emchoyes got it
emchoand a lightning talk as well
intosiemcho: good news!
emchoseems like we'll be able to rebuild last year's RTL
intosiIf we include the right bytes, it will be LTR
emchoor change it of course
emchomaybe this year we could do it a bit differently actually
emcholast year the loungy area was kind of barred by the tables
emchoso it wasn't evident that it was free access
emcho(or maybe that was the intention?)
emchoso maybe this year we could have the tables at one side and the loungy area at the other
ralphmemcho: well, one of the problems is that the area is also a passthrough for people that need to use the elevator
emchoyeah sure, but we wouldn't block it. laste year had this:
what we could try is this:
intosiThere's not a lot of wall usable for that. There's the exit of the lecture hall as well.
emchowell we could experiment. we are certainly OK with last year's arrangement
emchowe could also reverse the tables so that the XSF is seen before jitsi this time
fippowe can also stream the xsf table to the jitsi table ,-)
dwdDon't cross the streams.
dwdOr was that something else?
intosidwd: no, that's for this.
ralphmintosi: as far as I remember, that exit should not be used during FOSDEM and we might put a sign to that effect on the inside
dwdRough design of my "Enemy Listening" concept to the list.
dwdNobody has any comments on t-shirt designs? That's got to be a first.
dwdThe one I'm parodying is here: http://www.fortmissoulamuseum.org/WWII/images/posters/1986.004.439.jpg
dwdOoooh. That thumbnails with Gajim and the right plugins. Purr-tee!
ZashNice, IP address leakage
ZashMr Dave Cridland
dwdSo, can't decide between "Encrypt you talk" and "Encrypt your speech". Maybe even "Encrypt for Freedom". Also, I don't like "Don't use silos", I think it's dull.
dwd"Secure your server", maybe?
intosiSecure your server would be better.
intosiOr Encrypt your s2s
intosior comms instead of s2s
ZashSecure Your Server sounds pretty good
dwdHow about that, then?
MattJ"I have seen the enemy, and he is us. Secure your server!"
emcho"Winter is coming!"
ralphm"Encrypt your jabber" would bring out the original meaning of the word :-D
dwdUsually, any t-shirt discussions spawn an endless and depressing bikeshed discussion. This year, everyone seems scarily quiet.
ZashThe calm before the storm?
ralphmI blame it on the US being asleep still
dwdAh, they may all be in the STOX interim, I suppose.
dwdI want a better word than "encrypt". I'm tempted to use "Encipher", just for the period.
dwdWhat about "Keep that Jabber secret"?
stpeteris indeed in the STOX interim conference call
fippostpeter: you're in a loop ;-)
dwdWhat sort of numbers of t-shirts do we want this year, BTW?
MattJConsidering we don't have any actual number to discuss yet, doesn't that make it imaginary?
dwdI can't remember how many we got last time I rodered them, which doesn't help.
MattJThis is the most productive room I'm in
ralphmdwd: that's making things complex
fippostpeter: foundation bug is already noted in http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/User:Fippo#XEP_0176
ralphmdwd: what about "Jabber in code"?
fippoquick poll: you're allowed to send an <iq/> to a bare jid (even a jingle session-initiate), right?
ralphmbut a server must reply on the account's behalf
Lanceit probably won't do what you want, but you can
fipporight. or a stox pstn gateway
KevBut if you want servers to handle jingle for you, it's fine.
fippoah, we'll have to discuss that on the stox list
stpeterfippo: thanks -- it would indeed be good to fix the bugs in those specs
fippostpeter: yeah... if I only had more time :-/
stpeterfippo: yeah, I hear you!
KevAgendawriting time for Council - fippo, are your updated specs ready to go in the inbox?
stpeterKev: I received your email, will reply shortly
Kevstpeter: No rush.
fippokev: yeah, i think it's just the html in the inbox that needs to be updated
fippostpeter: heh, I managed to do a thourough review of stox-media in the last 90 minutes at least :-)
Kevfippo: Do you have home-rendered versions anywhere?
KevIf it's already checked into Git. Saves Peter publishing again.
fippokev: inbox doesn't seem to contain any .html -- https://github.com/fippo/customxeps/tree/gh-pages/extensions has html, too
Kevhttps://github.com/fippo/customxeps/blob/gh-pages/extensions/jingle-sources.html and https://github.com/fippo/customxeps/blob/gh-pages/extensions/jingle-grouping.html ?
fippo"For example, company A, which requires XMPP over TLS connection, can still connect to company B which uses XMPP over TCP with dial-back."
fippothat annoys me enough to register even
bear do we have numbers and cost info from the last tshirt purchase? I'm asking if &yet can help with some of this and they will need a ballpark figure
stpeterbear: I have that information, but it's at the Cisco office and I'm working at home today
bearno worries - i'm just gathering data
stpeterreading http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-bylaws/ Section 8.3 (on "Work Teams"), I conclude that we need to actually establish the UPnP Forum liaison team, with a charter and all, so we might be putting the cart before the horse to ask for volunteers at this time
stpeterI'll post to the members@ list about it
fippostpeter: did we do that for the jingle work team?
fippo(even though that ended up in a different way :-)
stpeternot really, so that team is null and void! ;-)
stpetermessage sent to the list
fippothe upnp guys are in portland?
fippo(well, depending on the definition of "guys" obviously)
MattJWas UPnP invented in the 90s by any chance?
ZashThe one that's based on SOAP over HTTP over UDP?
stpeterwell, they are all over the world -- I don't think they are "in" any specific place
ralphmnot just the world, universal!
ralphmbut yeah, a consortium
ralphmI know people from Philips working on it, while I was there in 2003
stpetermaybe the XSF could be located at the geographic center of all its members -- probably somewhere over the Atlantic Ocean :-)
stpetersome would say we're all wet, so sure
ralphmgood old, design by committee, everyone getting their exceptions and/or IP in
stpeteryep, most SDOs are like that, it seems
stpeteryay, got down below 9000 messages in my inbox ;-)
stpetersomething to do over the holidays...
waqasstpeter: Weren't you at inbox zero at some point?
stpeterat some point
stpeterit happens once in a while
stpeterand then it explodes
ralphmdo mailinglist posts count?
stpeterralphm: I don't differentiate
waqasMailing list posts are auto-labelled and don't go in my inbox. I have most emails auto-labelled.
stpeterBTW it seems that Joe Hildebrand might be at FOSDEM for sure, so we could still hold meetings at the Cisco offices even if I'm not able to travel
stpetershould know soon if that will pan out
Zash"might .. for sure" :D
stpeterhe said so yesterday, but I want to verify
Zash"60% of the time, it works every time"
stpeterbut yes, a poorly constructed sentence, that was
ralphmI have 971 unread messages on standards@
ralphmmaybe I should give up on those
ralphmsome go back to 2010 :-D
Zash"Mark as read" is your friend
beargetting info on fosdem is great news - i've been trying to keep the two events raised at work so they know what is coming
ralphmI'd love to see a bunch of &yetis
bearwith two events it would be tough to have a large showing, but each event has it's own sales/tech reasons - i'm gathering data for both to make the pitch