XSF Discussion - 2014-01-08

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  25. kevin.

    yay ! thats what happen when you open your email after a long time and suddenly reads this - [Members] XMPP Summit XV - Brussels

  26. SouL


  27. intosi has left

  28. kevin.

    SouL: oh you here too

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  30. SouL

    Yes, hello kevin. =)

  31. SouL

    But I'm not a member x)

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  33. Alex

    SouL: we can change this ;-)

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  41. SouL

    Yeah.. :)

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  49. ralphm

    Does anyone here have reasonable pictures of the area we've done the realtime lounge in last year?

  50. fippo

    https://jitsi.org/wiki/pub/sip-communicator/screenshots/videobridge.png is a little small, eh?

  51. ralphm

    yeah, I'd like some overview pictures if possible

  52. ralphm

    to see how we can decorate the place

  53. ralphm

    E.g. I'd love to have some stuff on walls, but if I remember correctly, one wall is plastered and cannot be used to hang stuff on.

  54. ralphm

    The other walls are mostly brick with a rough texture.

  55. ralphm

    So we'd need some projectors at the very least.

  56. intosi

    We managed to damage the paint on one wall the first year we resided in the K building.

  57. intosi

    (with ducttape)

  58. ralphm


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  60. intosi

    Looks like I only have pictures of the important stuff (Aux Pavés, snow, hoodie)

  61. ralphm


  62. fippo

    ralph: yana gave me https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.10151277769426645&type=1 and poked the guys who made those if they have more

  63. fippo

    maybe simon has some more

  64. ralphm

    ah, cool

  65. ralphm

    hmm, pesky fluorescent tubes will interfere with the Hue bulbs I want to bring.

  66. ralphm adds stepladder to http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_Checklist

  67. intosi


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  70. ralphm

    Hmm, the Board and Council meetings are not in the XSF calendars?

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  79. ralphm

    Board meeting in roughly 25 min. (after Council)

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  81. Laura has joined

  82. stpeter

    time for the board meeting?

  83. Kev

    I believe so. Council is done and just making Tolkien jokes at the moment :)

  84. ralphm

    Go chair

  85. ralphm

    we're missing two people still

  86. Kev

    You do have quorum, though.

  87. ralphm


  88. Kev

    Do you have an agenda? I would be inclined to start and let people catch up if they turn up.

  89. dwd waves

  90. dwd

    I remembered to switch tabs.

  91. Kev

    Sounds exhausting.

  92. ralphm

  93. Kev

    Oh, very droll.

  94. dwd

    So, who's chairing?

  95. ralphm

    I'm ok with that.

  96. Kev

    I'm happy to stand in, if that gets it done.

  97. ralphm bang gavel

  98. dwd

    By coincidence, I happen to have a new chair (on loan, actually). It's very adjustable.

  99. ralphm

    Ok, people. Agenda items?

  100. ralphm

    I have FOSDEM

  101. Kev


  102. dwd

    FOSDEM, XEP Editor.

  103. dwd


  104. ralphm

    Do we need to discuss liasons any further?

  105. Kev

    Not at the moment, it's waiting on a charter, I think.

  106. ralphm

    Laura: do you have any items?

  107. dwd

    We need to figure out the charter, and I had comments relating to copyright issues on that.

  108. Laura

    Only a quick update on the XMPP website

  109. ralphm

    dwd: so next meeting on that?

  110. ralphm

    Laura: awesome.

  111. dwd

    ralphm, Good for me.

  112. ralphm

    With 0. Welcome+Agenda out of the way,

  113. ralphm

    1) Website

  114. ralphm

    Laura: go

  115. Laura

    Right, I am working on this with Simon.

  116. dwd

    ralphm, I'll take minutes if you like?

  117. Laura

    We paused over Xmas but it is full steam ahead now

  118. ralphm

    dwd: splendid

  119. Laura

    The latest is we have started mapping the aueince, what we need from the site etc

  120. Laura

    Copy comes next

  121. Laura

    We hope to share with you in a few weeks

  122. Laura

    Share the progress and plans

  123. Laura

    (only brief update)

  124. ralphm

    Laura: a weeks = Summit?

  125. Laura

    Oooh yes!

  126. Laura

    Great idea

  127. Laura

    Love a deadline

  128. ralphm

    That's settled then :-D

  129. ralphm

    Laura: that's it?

  130. stpeter

    Laura: thanks to you and Simon for working on this!

  131. dwd

    Laura, Is there a site we can look at at all yet?

  132. Laura

    For now, yes

  133. Laura

    Not yet sorry

  134. Laura

    I am a planner first, do-er second

  135. ralphm


  136. ralphm

    Moving on then.

  137. dwd

    No problem. I appreciate that having a coherent plan would be good.

  138. ralphm

    2) XEP Editor Team

  139. stpeter

    ralphm: it seems that folks like this idea, so IMHO the next step is to propose a charter

  140. ralphm

    stpeter mentioned in the Council meeting that he's going to work on a charter?

  141. stpeter


  142. stpeter


  143. stpeter

    haven't gotten to that yet, but I can probably do so by the end of this week

  144. ralphm

    although not strictly required, how are we on making pull requests and such easier?

  145. ralphm

    I wanted to ask bear obviously.

  146. stpeter

    I know that bear was working on the github.com mirror, although we could also make it easier for core contributors to make pull requests directly on the repo at xmpp.org

  147. Kev

    ralphm: I think the Editor team reduces the need for this, actually. As the team can all have access to the existing repo, and the barrier to entry is lowered.

  148. Kev

    Not that this means we shouldn't change the model.

  149. stpeter

    we have added several XEP authors of late

  150. stpeter

    and could add more

  151. dwd

    My impression is that the members are in favour of the work team, by the way - I assume that the Board agrees in principle that we should go ahead?

  152. ralphm

    I am

  153. dwd

    (That is, subject to a charter etc)

  154. dwd

    I am also.

  155. Kev

    As non-Board-but-Council, I am.

  156. dwd


  157. ralphm

    I'm not sure about our voting process. Do we (like council) vote on-list in absence?

  158. Laura

    I am

  159. dwd

    ralphm, It's not mentioned, IIRC.

  160. Kev

    ralphm: I /think/ (from memory) that Board moves by majority, but I'm not sure.

  161. dwd

    Kev, Yes, we certainly carry on simple majority. QUestion is whether we have to vote in a meeting.

  162. Laura

    I;m not sure either

  163. ralphm

    Right. Might still be useful to have remaining opinions to be known, if so desired.

  164. stpeter nods

  165. dwd

    But we can vote to push on, certainly.

  166. Kev

    dwd: I think you get to choose your own definition of what a meeting is :)

  167. ralphm

    So I motion we let the minutes request remaining votes.

  168. dwd

    Kev, This is also true.

  169. ralphm

    Kev: that's my understanding

  170. dwd

    ralphm, I disagree - we can vote again given a charter, but it'd be nice to give a clear signal that we're in favour subject to the details.

  171. dwd

    That is, we're in favour of Peter working on a charter, etc.

  172. Kev

    dwd: I think that's already been given, and the minutes will presumably show it :)

  173. stpeter

    I saw no indications to the contrary, so IMHO it's full speed ahead :-)

  174. ralphm


  175. ralphm

    doing so

  176. dwd

    Kev, Yeah, because I'm writing them.

  177. ralphm

    3) GSoC

  178. Kev

    Does anyone know how Bear's getting along with gathering project ideas from people?

  179. Laura

    I don't

  180. ralphm


  181. Kev

    He's not approached Swift yet, and I didn't realise we only had a couple of weeks until application until Joachim asked on-list.

  182. Kev

    We're already running really quite late.

  183. ralphm

    What's the deadline again?

  184. dwd


  185. dwd


  186. Kev

    2nd Feb for everything to be ready and submitted, Joachim said. I've not verified.

  187. ralphm

    so for us that means "before the summit"

  188. Kev

    Long before the summit. We should really have ideas mostly there by now, and getting polished.

  189. dwd

    Or at, I suppose. Discussing GSoC at the summit was mentioned.

  190. ralphm

    dwd: that seems awefully late

  191. dwd

    Yes, it is. We'd have to literally do it at the summit.

  192. ralphm

    I'm also wondering what's there to discuss at that point

  193. MattJ

    and summits always reach such consensus about everything they discuss :)

  194. Kev

    ralphm: Not a voting item, but I was hoping for an update of progress.

  195. ralphm

    Kev: right

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  197. Kev

    We do have a couple of ideas up at http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summer_of_Code_2014

  198. ralphm


  199. ralphm

    bear drops in

  200. dwd

    Who's actually been tasked with GSoC work this time around?

  201. Kev

    But I don't think projects have been chased yet, and this needs to be done imminently.

  202. Kev

    dwd: Bear appointed himself :)

  203. bear

    if projects line up with mentors, yes I will do all the admin stuff

  204. Kev

    bear: The admin stuff includes getting projects and mentors sorted!

  205. bear

    then I shall get busy

  206. ralphm

    Kev, bear: can you guys exchange experience OOB?

  207. Kev

    I don't have anything else for in-meeting.

  208. ralphm

    Right. Thanks for the agenda item.

  209. ralphm

    4) XMPP Summit

  210. ralphm

    So, dwd and I basically decided definitively that we are having it on 30/31 Jan

  211. ralphm

    Things to be sorted out:

  212. stpeter


  213. Laura

    Thanks goodness.

  214. Kev

    (And my train is booked, so thanks)

  215. ralphm

    a) venue

  216. ralphm

    b) hotel

  217. dwd

    To be fair, this had been decided some time ago - we merely announced it.

  218. ralphm

    dwd: well, there was uncertainty that we cleared

  219. Laura

    I need to add the Surevine people names to the hotel list (just has them confirmed)

  220. ralphm

    Regarding a). stpeter, can you tell me if we can hold it in Diegem, or should I ask Jérome and/or hildjj on this?

  221. stpeter

    we can have the meeting at the Cisco office in Diegem, or at least I am 99% sure, I need to verify room availability with the folks there but I imagine it should be fine

  222. ralphm

    ok, that's great

  223. stpeter

    hildjj will be there for sure

  224. ralphm

    how has catering and such been arranged for before?

  225. dwd

    I see we're getting Will - we'll have to arrange an escelator.

  226. stpeter

    ralphm: I've done that directly with the catering folks there, it's a subcontractor to Cisco whose name I don't remember

  227. ralphm

    (For reference: http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_15)

  228. ralphm

    stpeter: let's discuss OOB how to arrange that for this year

  229. stpeter

    one year we also ordered out for some pizza to keep the developers happy ;-)

  230. dwd

    Pizza is good.

  231. ralphm


  232. Laura


  233. Laura

    Not just for developers

  234. ralphm


  235. ralphm


  236. ralphm

    b) hotel

  237. stpeter

    the catering people like to be paid cash (or require that) so in some years past I've needed to stop by on the way to the airport after accumulating enough euros over the weekend ;-)

  238. dwd

    We have discussed with Florian about his bargaining the hotels; I suspect he's somewhat busy, though.

  239. ralphm


  240. dwd

    Florian has agreed to do it; we could also call Aloft and ask them for a price. (By "we" I'm thinking Ralph, given they're Dutch-speakers)

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  242. ralphm

    I'll ping him as soon as I see him online. Otherwise we'll have to take it back.

  243. ralphm

    dwd: right, I thought so

  244. dwd

    We could also use intosi's natural charm.

  245. ralphm

    having the people needing a room is good

  246. ralphm

    did we assume double occupancy last year?

  247. dwd

    There's quite a few people asking for a hotel room, so we've got some bargaining power.

  248. dwd

    I don't think we assumed it - we got prices for both.

  249. Kev

    ralphm: I imagine people who aren't self-sponsored will be mostly single occupancy.

  250. ralphm

    sure, but it matters for getting a block, or doesn't it?

  251. dwd

    We could find out about room shares, if you like. Assume single occupancy first, though.

  252. ralphm


  253. Kev

    Or would note on the wiki page, as everyone with an H presumably is asking for a room of their own.

  254. Laura

    Single occupancy = thumbs up

  255. ralphm

    I've looked for prices at booking.com

  256. ralphm

    they are sharp

  257. Kev

    How bad?

  258. ralphm

    I mean they have good prices

  259. Kev


  260. Kev

    Yay :)

  261. ralphm

    € 482 standard room

  262. ralphm

    without breakfast

  263. Laura

    I might have to run guys, sorry

  264. Laura

    Train to catch

  265. ralphm

    what no!

  266. ralphm

    Laura: do you want bean bags?

  267. stpeter

    I need to go soon too

  268. ralphm

    Laura: and what do you want on them?

  269. dwd

    Laura, Wait! ARe you running or taking a train? I'm so confused!

  270. Kev

    ralphm: FWIW, when I put an H on the wiki, that was assuming checkin Wed, checkout Sun.

  271. Laura

    Running to train

  272. Laura

    and bean bags?

  273. ralphm


  274. ralphm


  275. Laura

    For the summit?

  276. ralphm


  277. dwd

    Laura, Do we want to spend some money on beanbags?

  278. ralphm

    for FOSDEM

  279. Laura


  280. ralphm

    what to put on them?

  281. Laura

    What about the ideas that got bounced around for the t-shirts?

  282. dwd

    We can figure that out on the list.

  283. dwd

    Laura, I'm trying to find printers.

  284. Laura

    Something cooler than just a logo

  285. dwd

    Laura, Who are cheap.

  286. Laura

    I can help with printers

  287. dwd

    Laura, Ah, ace.

  288. ralphm

    For beanbags: Jabber logo, XMPP logo, Realtime theme are options.

  289. dwd

    We could do one of each, if you fancy it.

  290. Laura

    I will send a message tomorrow and pick this up?

  291. dwd

    As in one of Jabber and XMPP.

  292. ralphm

    Good point!

  293. Laura

    I *really* have to go!

  294. ralphm

    Laura: thanks!

  295. Laura


  296. dwd

    Laura, Go hcen from this place unto a place of trains.

  297. Laura has left

  298. ralphm

    Assuming bear is still lurking over breakfast, let's go on?

  299. dwd

    Quorum only counts for opening the meeting, I think.

  300. bear


  301. ralphm


  302. ralphm


  303. ralphm

    5) FOSDEM

  304. ralphm

    So, the bean bags are a thing now

  305. ralphm

    I'm thinking of ordering three of them.

  306. stpeter

    interestingly bear just sent a message to the members@ list :-)

  307. ralphm

    they are €170+21% per

  308. dwd wonders - if they have beanbags, what are they now?

  309. bear

    I figured beanbag discussions allowed me to multi-task a bit

  310. stpeter

    I am with Laura -- I need to drive to the Cisco office for some meeting there

  311. Kev

    (Aside: I've re-joined the gsoc@, we might want gsoc interested people to discuss stuff there).

  312. ralphm

    stpeter: thanks!

  313. stpeter


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  315. ralphm

    I'll just make a design and post it to the list

  316. dwd

    We still need projectors, don't we?

  317. ralphm

    dwd: we do

  318. ralphm

    I was hoping those could be obtained at Cisco as well

  319. ralphm

    I think we did that in previous years

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  321. dwd

    Right, we should probably touch base with hildjj about that.

  322. ralphm

    ah yes, one of those other domains I can't connect to right now :-)

  323. ralphm


  324. ralphm

    lists some other things we need

  325. ralphm

    I'd be happy to ride to Ikea with Edwin for said storage containers

  326. ralphm

    and other things that need to be bought

  327. dwd

    Ah, the Legendary Ikea Diegem Trips.

  328. bear

    i would consider it a failed summit if I didn't ride in a car with ralph to ikea

  329. ralphm

    Except that we intend to arrive on Wednesday, so maybe we can do it on that day this year.

  330. dwd

    You missed the trip I did with Florian driving in the snow.

  331. ralphm

    bear: hm

  332. dwd

    Florian driving is a terrifying thing at the best of times.

  333. ralphm

    I've also secured some Philips Hue bulbs that I intend to hang down from the ceiling

  334. ralphm

    Possibly in these: http://www.ikea.com/nl/nl/catalog/products/50175771/

  335. ralphm

    They are zigbee controlled via a hub that has an HTTP-based API.

  336. ralphm

    (which I want to tie in with XMPP obviously, as one of the IoT demos)

  337. dwd


  338. ralphm

    Given their function, that seems loungy, too

  339. dwd

    Yes, indeed.

  340. ralphm

    Ok, anything else?

  341. ralphm

    We started recruiting for demos

  342. ralphm

    so let's push some more on that

  343. dwd

    XSF Dinner.

  344. dwd

    Again, Florian said he'd arrange that. We should probably mount a round-the-clock nagging watch on him.

  345. ralphm

    but also sponsoring

  346. ralphm

    I don't expect him to arrange that

  347. dwd

    Yes, he said he couldn't do the sponsoring.

  348. dwd

    I imagine I can do some of that. I've actually had one offer already.

  349. ralphm

    so it'd be great if one of you (hello minute-readers, too) could pick that up

  350. Tobias has joined

  351. dwd

    OK, I'm done, at least for now.

  352. ralphm


  353. ralphm


  354. ralphm

    6) AOB?

  355. ralphm

    bear, dwd?

  356. dwd

    Nope, I'm all meetinged out.

  357. ralphm

    7) Date of next

  358. ralphm


  359. bear

    +1 to next week

  360. ralphm

    8) Thanks

  361. dwd

    Same Bat-Time, Same Bat-Channel.

  362. ralphm bangs gavel

  363. bear sets his calendar alarm for the new year

  364. ralphm

    oh about that, could someone update the ICS files?

  365. ralphm

    including those for council?

  366. dwd

    Tobias, ?

  367. Tobias


  368. ralphm

    And put the summit in there as well, while you're at it.

  369. ralphm

    Tobias: thanks!

  370. Tobias

    putting the dates in or rebuilding the ics?

  371. ralphm

    I'm not sure I understand the difference.

  372. ralphm

    the end result would be that the xsf.ics one has the summit in there :-D

  373. Tobias


  374. Tobias

    if you can tell me the UTC dates for those

  375. ralphm

    oh and the summit one too

  376. dwd

    ralphm, An excellent restraint on micromanaging there.

  377. dwd

    Tobias, "Make it so."

  378. ralphm

    Tobias: whole day events, no time zone required

  379. ralphm

    the dates are 2014-01-30 and -31

  380. bear

    you can probably find last year's entries and cut-n-paste with appropriate edits

  381. dwd

    ralphm, Except they're actually 1000-1700 or so, +0100, rather than all-day events, surely?

  382. ralphm

    +0100 is ok

  383. Tobias

    board meeting is next week after council?

  384. bear


  385. ralphm

    Tobias: yes

  386. Tobias


  387. ralphm

    16:30 UTC

  388. dwd

    I'm sending out minutes subtley marked as draft now, so if there are mistakes I'll pretend they were draft all along, and otherwise we'll let them stand.

  389. bear


  390. Kev

    I've edited the GSoC page to remove some of the invalid ideas, BTW.

  391. Kev

    (Documentation projects are not allowed)

  392. Tobias

    dwd, both thursday and friday?

  393. Tobias

    the summit

  394. bear

    thanks kev

  395. dwd

    Tobias, Yes.

  396. Tobias


  397. bear

    i've also requested from the mail moderator to join gsoc@

  398. Kev

    dwd: Kev wasn't speaking as Swift, just as past GSoC admin, and the 'we' in question was certainly the XSF, not Swift.

  399. Kev

    Although the not being chased for ideas was as Swift :)

  400. dwd

    Kev, Ah, in that case I misunderstood.

  401. dwd

    Kev, OK, partially misunderstood.

  402. Kev

    Swift doesn't have ideas up yet, the XSF does.

  403. Kev

    Although fewer than it did a few minutes ago, after my cull.

  404. ralphm

    Kev: we need XEP-0317 support

  405. Kev


  406. Kev

    Or 258, slightly abused.

  407. ralphm

    but only /slightly/

  408. jabberjocke

    where do i join gsoc@ maillist?

  409. bear


  410. bear


  411. bear


  412. ralphm


  413. ralphm

    stpeter cleared up some lists a bit ago

  414. bear

    hmm, good question

  415. ralphm

    the archive is still there

  416. ralphm

    so I think this is the case

  417. Tobias

    so..events are in the calendar

  418. jabberjocke

    bear: could http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo be updated with the gsoc referens

  419. bear

    i'll email peter about that now

  420. ralphm

    jabberjocke: that's all automatic in mailman. The point is that for mailman, the lists doesn't currently exist.

  421. ralphm

    Pipermail (the archive frontend) does still have the archive

  422. jabberjocke


  423. ralphm

    so the list just needs recreating with new subscribers and such

  424. bear

    still, someone with mailman privs needs to flip the bit

  425. ralphm

    yeah, but I hope others than stpeter could do that

  426. ralphm

    like maybe intosi

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  447. dwd

    XSF DInner - Saturday night?

  448. dwd

    (Caught Florian, BTW, chased him on Hotel, he'll drop Aloft a note tonight)

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  453. Kev

    Saturday night sounds reasonable to me.

  454. ralphm

    dwd: nice. wfm

  455. Kev

    Usual place?

  456. dwd

    Florian's Babysitter's.

  457. ralphm


  458. dwd

    I don't actually remember the name of the place, I only remember that the blonde waitress, who's the wife of the chef, was Florian's babysitter.

  459. dwd

    We must absolutely not remind him of this fact at every opportunity.

  460. ralphm

    of course not. it would be cruel

  461. dwd

    And we must never be cruel to Florian.

  462. jabberjocke

    so is checkin on the 30th and checkout on 3rd the default choice the (H) in the wiki http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_15#Participants

  463. Kev

    I'll be checking in on the 29th and checking out on the 2nd.

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  465. dwd

    I think I stipulated a default. But the idea behind that isn't that we'll book a room, anyway, it's so we can get a block of rooms - we'll just need to ensure we have a minimum actually booked.

  466. Kev

    You did?

  467. Kev

    It's not immediately obvious to me on the page.

  468. dwd

    In the mail, rather than on the page.

  469. Kev

    What was the default?

  470. dwd

    I can't remember. I suspect I'd have said in for Wednesday night, out for Monday morning.

  471. Kev

    I would have thought quite a lot of people would be in Wednesday, out Sunday.

  472. Kev

    Although I'd expect long-haulers to be out Monday.

  473. Kev

    I think, FWIW, that being a sponsor of hardware should probably be taken on the same sort of basis as a donation of cash.

  474. Kev

    I don't know what size hardware donation you're talking about, but would we put a logo on every page of the site for an equivalent cash donation?

  475. Kev

    What about the donation Peter's just arranged?

  476. Kev


  477. dwd

    The ISoc gift specifically didn't ask for anything. The problem is that getting blanket donations is hard, whereas getting specific donations is comparatively easier - sponsors like to be associated with a specific benefit that aligns with them, or simply a benefit that is seen as generally nice.

  478. Kev


  479. Kev

    But a logo on every page of the site is a hell of a sponsor benefit.

  480. dwd

    Yeah, I'm not mad keen on a logo. Just a line of fine text in the footer.

  481. Kev

    Do we value sponsors of hardware significantly above other sponsors?

  482. Kev

    We have a footnote in text of sponsors already.

  483. Kev

    So if the hardware comes to the appropriate magnitude to reach whatever level of sponsorship that is, I think it's fine.

  484. fippo

    has there been a blog entry about the isoc gift btw?

  485. dwd

    Right, we do. I'm thinking of calling out what they sponsored (in particular, I'm thinking we should call attention to the hosting too).

  486. dwd

    fippo, Pass. I don't remember one.

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