fippohttps://twitter.com/xnyhps/status/421402249357574144 -- is there an isoc press release somewhere?
bearthat is the first I've heard of it
ralphmBy the way, the EPP Keyrelay has won that award.
dwdAlex, Sorry for the disruptive suggestion, I should probably have approached you quietly with that idea.
KevI don't, FWIW, think it'd be useful to hold a member's meeting at the summit.
Kev(And given that it's cheduled two days before the summit, I'm not sure many people are likely to be travelling to the summit on Tuesday night)
ralphmWorking in Inkscape for the beanbag design. 140x180 is pretty damn big.
intosiTo my father's house kwam net langs.
intosiRandom iTunes is best leuk ;)
ralphmintosi: wrong window. But yeah.
ralphmHm, maybe logo's of 40x40 are a bit BIG
intosiA little, perhaps.
ralphmI am also wondering about the background colour.
intosiWhich ones are you considering?
Kev50 shades of pink.
intosiDon't you mean sheds?
Kev50 shades of sheds.
Alexdwd: no problem at all
Alexone of my good attentions for 2014 is to be more strict with the deadlines and timing ;-)
dwdKev, I think it'd be interesting to discuss the XSF's role at the Summit anyway, and having the formal meeting then could act as a useful focus.
dwdKev, Also, we could formally vote on what pizza to buy in again.
ralphmintosi: basically white for the ones with the Jabber and XMPP logos, dark blue for the realtime logo one
1) I don't think it needs to be a formal meeting to have discussions
2) If you want a formal meetings so we can vote on things we discuss, I think this excludes absent members from usefully contributing.
intosiralphm: are the covers washable? White might need that after one FOSDEM.
dwdKev, (1) No, it doesn't, but I think it would help focus and visibility. I do want a discussion, and if it's a formal meeting, this forces it to be announced, minuted, and so on, and avoids it being squeezed out by other items. (2) Yes, I wasn't serious about voting on pizza, but if a decision needs to be made, we would actually have quorum to make it (and we could vote on whether we *should* make it as well).
ralphmyes, there's a zipper and a inner bag with the EPS
dwdralphm, I would have thought white for Jabber, possibly, but black for XSF. I'm not convinced we should have a Realtime one (or at least, not sure we should be funding it).
ralphmintosi: the outer shell is made of 100% polyester with PU coating
Kevdwd: Yes, I'm opposed to the possibility of voting happening at an in-person meeting based on discussions that happen at that meeting, effectively excluding from the meeting those people not present who will have voted on scheduled items by proxy.
ralphmdwd: good point, I was thinking keeping the Realtime brand alive, with it being named Realtime Lounge and all.
KevI'd be much happier with just having the meeting in the normal format, and having a chat at the summit that whoever wants the discussion to happen (presumably you), minuting it and posting to the members list for wider discussion.
ralphmdwd: i.e. not make it all about XMPP/Jabber per sé
Kevralphm: The XSF kinda is all about XMPP.
ralphmKev: Couldn't you have told me before?
KevI didn't want to spoil the surprise.
dwdKev, OK, you're welcome to be opposed to it, but the only way to actually prevent that possibility is to change the bylaws which allow it. If there's something special about an in-person meeting you find different in this respect, I'd be curious to know what it is.
dwd(The bylaws actually *explicitly* allow it).
dwdralphm, I thought the XSF was all about mail. Why are we here anyway?
ralphmLook, we have been doing a Realtime Lounge for getting other realtime technologies in the spotlight along with Jabber/XMPP. Things like IoT and WebRTC are only partially about XMPP and that's fine.
ralphmWe could also have it been called the Jabber Lounge.
intosidwd: for the last few days, XSF /was/ all about mail for me ;)
Kevdwd: No, we prevent the possibility of voting happening at a meeting at the summit by not having a meeting at the summit.
KevThere's no reason to go hyperbolic on this.
ralphmWe could also go to Delaware
KevAnd the thing I find different about an in-person meeting and the usual meetings is accessibility.
ralphmKidding aside, I don't see any value in having an in-person meeting for the stuff we usually do by proxy: voting new members in.
KevWe could do an in-person meeting supplemented by viable vvoip or such, and that reduces the barrier -but I'm not sure we have the technology.
dwdralphm, But yes. I'm far from being against the realtime brand, just not convinced the XSF should be funding it in this way.
KevFWIW: Re: Realtime, if we want a Realtime brand as a way of bringing people into the XMPP fold, or of raising awareness for XMPP, that doesn't seem stupid. Although it doesn't seem like a clear-cut win either, to me.
dwdralphm, But your argument also holds for not having meetings at all.
dwdKev, Thanks, that (Realtime) argument was better expressed than mine.
ralphmdwd: I think voting by proxy and meeting in a MUC to confirm is basically the farthest we can stretch our By Laws to *avoid* having in-person meetings.
ralphmdwd: a good thing IMO
ralphmKev: agreed, I cannot quantify the usefulness
KevI think naming it the realtime lounge makes it more interesting, though - but once people are there, being clear that XMPP is all about the realtime seems fine.
KevWith infinite resources I'd consider a banner
The Realtime Lounge
powered by XMPP
or something, but we don't have vast amounts of cash to throw around on such things.
dwdKev, I think we'd have about 14 XSF members at the meeting, maybe a couple more. It's possible to ensure there's proactive inclusion, for want of a better prhase, for those in the MUC. (In fact, we could stipulate that any voting occurs exclusively through the MUC). I have no plans to force a vote, but our bylaws allow for this.
ralphmalthough pubnub isn't really XMPP, it does support it
ralphmKev: agreed about the banner. I was thinking that if we have three bean bags, XMPP/Jabber/Realtime, this is already giving that signal
Kevdwd: My concern isn't so much about the vote itself, that's easy to get into the MUC.
dwdralphm, Yes, more inclusion is better, certainly.
Kevdwd: But if we're voting based on a discussion that happens, that discussion should be inclusive.
ralphmAnd I think we should make sure we have a number of projectors to go instead of the banner to make it more obvious
dwdKev, Do you mean inclusive, or accessible?
Kevralphm: I'm not opposed to a beanbag with Realtime on (not that it matters if I am or not). I just don't see a beanbag with just Realtime on it as having a strong message to it, whereas "Realtime powered by XMPP" does. But...*shrug*...this is not my area of expertise.
ralphmKev, dwd: I also wonder how we could take entities like PubNub and probably &yet itself on their offers to help out doing this event.
Kevdwd: In as much as stuff that happens on the mailing list is both inclusive and accessible.
ralphmhave them sponsor in kind, money, resources?
KevI don't think it harms to have people who're using XMPP have a banner or something behind, FWIW.
dwdKev, I ask because "inclusive" would imply "having as many people contribute as possible" to me, whereas "accessible" implies "having as many people potentially contribute as possible". My thought was that an in-person meeting would help the former, and the latter we'd have to be careful to avoid it suffering.
KevI don't like the XMPP T-Shirts having &yet on them, but having a poster that says "&yet support XMPP" is fine/good.
Kevdwd: I'm proposing that we have in-person discussions, which are high-bandwidth and likely to have significant contribution, and that these are summarised on-list where all members will hear the arguments (inclusive) and have the opportunity to contribute (accessible).
ralphmI want to note again that posters are not going to be a thing with the physical properties of the walls surrounding the lounge, but yes
Kevralphm: Right. I mean the idea in general.
KevWe've shared the stand with companies who make use of XMPP before, and will presumably do so again this year.
KevA slideshow cycling through people who use XMPP and a summary of what they do and why.
ralphmPossible designs for the beanbags. Comments welcome! http://mag.ik.nu/~ralphm/tmp/beanbags/
ralphm(I like viewing them on 1:1 scale)
intosiI need a bigger monitor.
intosiThe SVG and PDF versions show with a white background in my browser. I assume this is intentional?
ralphmPDF doesn't seem to support background colors and I'm not sure why inkscape doesn't save them to SVG
ralphmor, it does, but doesn't show this in normal renderings or something
dwdralphm, For Inkscape, I tended to add in a background rectangle for working.
dwdralphm, Mostly because SVG doesn't have a background colour for the whole thing. The page stuff is all Inkscape extensions.
ralphmLast time I did this for a t-shirt, the printer didn't care
ralphmI've also submitted these designs for review with the company
dwdralphm, As long as you give the printer the PNG as a guide, should be fine.
ralphmand asked them if they have other-colored materials they print on
ralphmI mean, if they have a nice darkblue fabric, that's better than having it printed such, I think
dwdOh. Yes, sorry, I assumed the fabric colour was choosable.
ralphmI specifically asked them if light on dark can be done (I assume that's fine)
intosiThat's why I assumed you left out the background colour.
ralphmhey admin, do you have an update for us?
adminthey're looking into pricing
ralphmthey love us, so I hope that's quite fine
intosiralphm: they probably love anyone who 1) pays for their rooms, and 2) do not trash them.
ralphmintosi: consider they usually get EU-related people in
ralphmdwd: anyway, looking good otherwise?
dwdYes, looks great otherwise.
intosiralphm: nice job
intosiIANAD, so apply a grain of salt to my rating ;)
dwdintosi, Oh, designing is easy. Just make it look pretty, and then write a paragraph or two referring to your "consistent design language", and your use of "intuitive metaphor".
dwdWhen I was young, "design language" was called "style", or, sometimes, "look and feel".