XSF Discussion - 2014-01-15

  1. Simon

    What's the current thinking on new XEP's using montague/capulet.lit vs example.com/org ?

  2. Simon

    #finally getting the bc XEP into shape

  3. Steffen Larsen

    I still vote for the example.org. even though we have a love for hamlet et al.

  4. Steffen Larsen

    It can be misleading

  5. Simon

    Steffen - my leaning too. But there's history…

  6. fippo

    simon: every author does what he/she wants ;)

  7. Simon

    fippo - that's an answer I can live with :)

  8. Steffen Larsen

    I know simon.. And even though I actually like the hamlet stuff and find it funny.. I still believe that common sense and example.org would be a lot better

  9. fippo

    http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0143.html#sections-usecases still recommends that

  10. Kev

    I don't see a problem with using Shakespeare examples, FWIW.

  11. Kev

    Not a practical problem, anyway.

  12. Lloyd

    Personally I like the shakespeare examples, it also means I sound more cultured when the subject comes up.

  13. Simon

    Tomorrow's topic: painting the other bike shed.

  14. Steffen Larsen

    Its a not big problem as such, but by specifying example.org people can see that the domain and stanza is an explicit example

  15. Kev

    Finding Shakespeare examples is the only fun bit about writing XEPs ;)

  16. Kev

    Steffen Larsen: I don't think anyone's ever read a XEP and thought that only the three witches were able to do PEP, or whatever :)

  17. Steffen Larsen

    Kev: :-)

  18. Lloyd

    Kev :)

  19. Lloyd

    Their muc server is always down anyway

  20. Steffen Larsen

    Kev: try buying some of the domains (if not already taken) and see how many sta zas you get. ;-)

  21. Steffen Larsen


  22. Kev

    I'd like to give people more credit than that.

  23. Steffen Larsen


  24. Simon

    what's the cost for a new top-level domain these days? XSF buying .lit

  25. Lloyd

    We could use .lt ?

  26. Lloyd

    * .li

  27. ralphm

    Simon: I didn't know Buddycloud was doing so well these days

  28. ralphm

    I believe it was around €180000

  29. ralphm

    I'm not sure if that's the entry fee, though

  30. Simon

    ok - scratch that idea. :)

  31. ralphm

    (initial price was $185000. Pretty close)

  32. Steffen Larsen

    cheap! buy!

  33. FloRida

    yoyoyo peeps!

  34. FloRida

    I come with great news

  35. FloRida


  36. kevin


  37. Kev

    Thanks Florian.

  38. Kev

    dwd / ralphm: Going to do the mail thing, then?

  39. Kev

    FloRida: So this is good to go?

  40. FloRida


  41. Kev

    Thanks very much.

  42. dwd

    Morning. Yes, I'll sort that out now.

  43. dwd

    Unless ralphm has beaten me to it.

  44. ralphm

    dwd: go for it

  45. ralphm

    I am working on the final touches for the beanbags

  46. ralphm


  47. dwd

    Writing it now.

  48. ralphm

    intosi suggested putting the Jabber one on a dark background

  49. ralphm

    (I picked the colour, though)

  50. Kev

    Booked :)

  51. ralphm

    comments welcome, until I send them off

  52. Kev

    I'm not sure about the realtime one (Do people immediately recognise that as being realtime?), but the other two look good.

  53. ralphm

    Kev: well, I'm not sure about recognition, either, but combined with further projected branding that should be quite fine

  54. ralphm

    and hey, it's a clock!

  55. intosi


  56. winfried

    Are the beanbags for sale? :-P

  57. Lloyd

    Actually I could do with decorating the home office

  58. intosi

    /if/ they are for sale, they will be for sale with conditions (such as: available for next FOSDEM ;-) ). I'm not saying they will be.

  59. Kev

    intosi: I don't see why such a condition should be needed.

  60. dwd

    The XSF *could* order and make more of them.

  61. intosi

    Although I'm sure a few can be made as a special order.

  62. ralphm


  63. intosi

    It's up to the FOSDEM-handling board member to make a decision on selling them, of course.

  64. ralphm

    I am sure something can be arranged

  65. ralphm

    also, the XSF would be quite willing to have these sponsored by individuals or companies

  66. ralphm

    In any case, the designs are off to the printer

  67. intosi

    ralphm: thank you!

  68. ralphm

    I wonder how much 380 liters of EPS weighs

  69. intosi

    The definition of EPS is not very strict ;)

  70. Kev

    But it is Turing-complete.

  71. intosi

    Could be anything between 16 and 640 kg/m3

  72. ralphm

    180x140cm. pretty big ass big

  73. ralphm

    and indeed Lloyd, I was thinking the same

  74. ralphm

    not sure how you'd get it back to .uk

  75. intosi

    Ralphm: a fat boy of that size is ±7 kg.

  76. intosi

    FATBOY, not a fat boy. The latter would be significantly heavier.

  77. Kev

    ralphm: It'd float, right?

  78. Ash

    Depends on the lead content of all the pies I suppose.

  79. dwd

    Kev, Only if it's a sealed volume.

  80. Lloyd

    Fatboys float, fat is less dense than water

  81. intosi

    EPS usually floats.

  82. ralphm

    I wouldn't rely on this

  83. Lloyd

    ralphm: just buy covers, source innards in home country

  84. intosi

    Not for transportational purposes.

  85. ralphm

    Lloyd: totally possible. Their man product is flags

  86. Steffen Larsen

    hmm I get no rooms available for the given date

  87. dwd


  88. dwd

    We can start the summit with a procession?

  89. Steffen Larsen

    I am trying to bok from the 29'th to 2'feb.. no rooms avail?

  90. Steffen Larsen


  91. Lloyd

    Who will book the marching band?

  92. Steffen Larsen

    ha ha

  93. Lloyd

    Steffan Larsen. maybe block booking doesn't cover the wednesday? Try from Thursday onwards

  94. Lloyd

    (I haven't booked BTW)

  95. dwd

    Lloyd, It *should* cover that.

  96. dwd

    [11:11:14] Florian Jensen: ALOFT BRUSSELS SCHUMAN -          20/25 Lofts from 29/01 – 03/02/2014 -          Week rate (29+30/02): 165 euro per room & per night -          Weekend rate (31/01+01+02/02): 75 euro per room & per night -          Breakfast included served at the re;fuel -          Supplement of 10 euro for a double room

  97. dwd

    That's what I have.

  98. dwd

    FloRida, Ping?

  99. Steffen Larsen

    yes it says that it covers it.. but it does not work

  100. Steffen Larsen

    but I have a flight Wednesday.. so I need a room

  101. Kev

    I managed 29th->2nd fine.

  102. Steffen Larsen


  103. winfried

    Fully booked already?

  104. Kev

    Maybe the rooms genuinely are all gone?

  105. Steffen Larsen

    tryind in various browsers

  106. Steffen Larsen


  107. dwd

    Kev, We've a block of 25 locked for us, so I hope not.

  108. Lloyd

    Martin, Ash, and myself get booked off that group due to new PA organising, so there should be at least 3 free

  109. Steffen Larsen

    well changing the startdate.. still doesnt work

  110. dwd

    Huh. I get the same thing.

  111. Steffen Larsen

    Cant make it work!

  112. Steffen Larsen

    so.. something is wrong from the hotel service I think.

  113. ralphm

    or we will have quite the party

  114. fippo

    dwd: realtime conf spoiled you

  115. Simon

    realtimeconf spoilt me for sure. That was fun!

  116. Kev

    I wonder why it would be failing now. It was certainly working earlier when the four Isode folks booked.

  117. Steffen Larsen

    well.. now it just fails no matter what

  118. Simon

    I'm booking for three so if anyone wants to double up on the second room, let me know.

  119. fippo

    https://twitter.com/disruptivedean/status/423390001309556736 -- *sigh*

  120. fippo

    simon: ping!

  121. Simon

    fippo: ACK. Will do.

  122. ralphm

    fippo: yes, people still sometimes suggest Skype to me. bwahaha

  123. ralphm

    I did manage to get a reservation earlier

  124. ralphm

    dwd: hmm, maybe the yetis could bring the rt flags

  125. Lance

    ralphm nope

  126. Lance

    at least not with flagpoles

  127. FloRida

    so far 6 rooms are booked

  128. Lloyd

    ralphm fippo: skype? surely just visit one of these and log in: http://legastero.github.io/jingle-interop-demos/xmpp-ftw/ http://legastero.github.io/jingle-interop-demos/stanzaio/ http://legastero.github.io/jingle-interop-demos/strophejingle/ http://legastero.github.io/jingle-interop-demos/jslix-jingle/

  129. fippo

    lloyd: WE know better of course

  130. dwd

    FloRida, It's rejecting me and Steffan for the whole period.

  131. FloRida

    that's odd

  132. Steffen Larsen


  133. dwd

    FloRida, We've got a 25-room block reservation, haven't we?

  134. Steffen Larsen

    maybe its a 2.5 block ;-)

  135. Lance has same reservation problems

  136. dwd

    Lance, I have some reservations, but not a hotel one.

  137. dwd is quite proud of that joke.

  138. Lance

    dwd you read the user-auth proposal too?

  139. dwd

    The "two factor" one?

  140. Lance


  141. dwd

    I spent ages trying to decide what the other factor was.

  142. ralphm

    Lance: of course without the poles

  143. ralphm

    Lance: I wasn't actually suggesting it, I think

  144. ralphm

    Lance: except maybe the one with the realtime logo on it

  145. Lance

    ralphm i'll see what i can get from storage then

  146. ralphm


  147. ralphm

    Lance: by the way, you can tell Amy I found an svg of the logo after all

  148. ralphm

    It's funny to see the hour markers have rounded corners on the t-shirts (only), I did the same for the bean bag

  149. FloRida

    reservation problems: they're on it

  150. ralphm

    FloRida: cool

  151. FloRida

    screenshots guys?

  152. FloRida

    of the error

  153. dwd

    Aloft Brussels Schuman - Thank you for your message. We regret to inform you that the selected room is not available on the required dates. You can contact Bram Visser, bram.visser@alofthotels.com who will be there to assist you.

  154. Steffen Larsen

    got the same 100 times now

  155. Steffen Larsen

    I've written to the email but no answer yet

  156. dwd

    I am attempting to use file transfer to send you a screenshot.

  157. dwd

    Optimistic, aren't I?

  158. dwd

    FloRida, ^^

  159. FloRida


  160. dwd

    FloRida, Doesn't seem to run on Linux.

  161. FloRida

    it's web based

  162. dwd


  163. FloRida


  164. FloRida

    can you try again?

  165. dwd


  166. ralphm


  167. intosi


  168. Simon

    Anyone work out how to get two twin beds? Much as I love you all…

  169. dwd

    No idea. Bed options are either King or No Pref.

  170. dwd

    No Poref, by the way, gets you King.

  171. MattJ

    Ouch, that happened to Waqas and I once. We ended up dismantling the bed somewhat

  172. MattJ

    We were late to check out the next morning, having had to spend a long time putting it back so that no-one would notice

  173. Simon

    "do not cross the [imaginary] line"

  174. MattJ


  175. intosi

    I'll bring duct tape just in case anyone needs it ;)

  176. dwd

    intosi, Just sharing a bed is enough, no need for that kind of thing.

  177. intosi

    To mark off their side of the bed...

  178. dwd

    intosi, Oh, right. Yes.

  179. Simon

    yeah yeah...

  180. intosi


  181. FloRida


  182. Simon

    nice to see XEPs getting a security review on the [esteemed] cryptography mailing list http://lists.randombit.net/pipermail/cryptography/2014-January/006175.html

  183. Steffen Larsen

    Super! got a room now

  184. ralphm

    Turns out the beanbags are about 6kg

  185. ralphm

    Getting some food, might be in slightly later

  186. Simon

    I'll need to leave after 30mins.

  187. Simon

    (30 mins after the start)

  188. Kev

    Council ran to 10 minutes today, it was a long one. So Board will have to make up for that :)

  189. Simon

    the board picking up after the council again. Sigh!

  190. intosi

    10 minutes, tsk.

  191. stpeter


  192. intosi


  193. Simon


  194. dwd waves

  195. stpeter

    wow, lots of folks here today

  196. Laura


  197. stpeter

    hi Laura!

  198. dwd

    stpeter, The XSF is now officially popular.

  199. stpeter


  200. Laura

    Where all the cool kids are

  201. stpeter

    the cool factor comes and goes

  202. ralphm waves

  203. MattJ

    Time to start requiring TLS on s2s connections here? :)

  204. stpeter

    at least xmpp.org ought to be participate in the next test day

  205. MattJ


  206. stpeter

    I'm requiring it still on stpeter.im and I was able to join here

  207. Lloyd

    [surevine.com does too]

  208. Kev

    I'd actually argue that we want xmpp.org to be as inclusive as possible, and blocking S2S is unhelpful for that, especially when all traffic to/from xmpp.org is publicly logged so there's no security gain.

  209. Zash

    -cipher xmpp.org

  210. Bunneh

    Zash: Connection to xmpp.org uses cipher RC4-MD5

  211. Kev


  212. Zash


  213. Zash


  214. stpeter

    so in any case does the Board have quorum?

  215. ralphm

    I think we're all here

  216. stpeter

    (Kev: I see your point)

  217. bear waves

  218. ralphm hands bear the gavel

  219. stpeter


  220. dwd

    We have a full house.

  221. bear

    ralphm, Laura, Simon, me - quorom

  222. bear

    and dave

  223. bear bangs the gavel

  224. ralphm


  225. bear

    peter has the floor

  226. stpeter


  227. stpeter

    well, the Board needs to decide about approving the two work team charters

  228. stpeter

    and there's FOSDEM/Summit

  229. stpeter

    anything else on the agenda today?

  230. stpeter

    we still need to write a post on the website about the ISOC sponsorship, too

  231. Simon

    Was there any comments on the security side (manifesto or otherwise)?

  232. stpeter

    Simon: I don't think we've necessarily collected data about the test day

  233. bear

    sorry - I just meant that peter's two agenda items are up

  234. stpeter

    bear: ok

  235. bear

    ack - server is offline - I will be lurking - Ralph can you run the meeting for a bit?

  236. ralphm


  237. stpeter

    Dave has provided feedback on the Editorial Team charter

  238. Simon

    I'd like to table a quick DNSSEC discussion that might involve us working with Council on documentation

  239. ralphm

    any other items?

  240. stpeter

    ralphm: I don't think so

  241. ralphm


  242. dwd

    stpeter, I'm fine with it, excepting "In order to improve the management of these processes" - I think with that struck it's good.

  243. ralphm

    1) UPnP liason

  244. stpeter

    (in fact we have possible liaison relationships with ISO and IEC to figure out too, so we need to get this "template" figured out)

  245. stpeter


  246. ralphm

    any comments on the team charter?

  247. Simon

    Both seem good to me.

  248. stpeter

    my main concern is not the charter but our ability to recruit people (XSF members) to participate

  249. ralphm

    My only question is about who'll be in them

  250. stpeter

    at least for the liaison teams

  251. ralphm

    and how many of them for each

  252. stpeter

    since we'll have 3 of them to start (UPnP, ISO, IEC)

  253. dwd

    It looks good to me. As I (think I) said, there's some worry surrounding IPR for the UPnP liason team, but we can figure that out as we go.

  254. stpeter

    dwd: UPnP, ISO, and IEC all have much more restrictive IPR rules than we do

  255. stpeter

    so we need to decide if we're comfortable with that

  256. ralphm

    I'd also prefer at least one council member to be part of the liason teams

  257. stpeter

    e.g., they lock down discussion and specs until they go public after the specs are baked

  258. stpeter

    ralphm: makes sense

  259. dwd

    stpeter, Mostly, I agree, but the XSF's assignment stuff invokes complexity in the other direction, too.

  260. bear

    the IPR issue, for me, isn't a huge worry as we would be advising in this role

  261. stpeter

    bear: that's how I see it, too

  262. Kev

    It's not the IPR per se, in terms of license of teh documents, but essentially being under NDA seems actively unhelpful. Not that it makes any difference what I think.

  263. stpeter

    dwd: in which direction?

  264. dwd

    stpeter, Anything coming our way.

  265. bear

    we would just have to be careful of the wording of the NDA

  266. stpeter

    Kev: I'm not an NDA fan, myself, so philosophically I agree, but if we want to help these other SDOs we need to play by their rules

  267. ralphm

    how do possible patent disclosures work for liasons? Are the people in teams there as individuals or as officers of the Foundation?

  268. dwd

    ralphm, Not "officers", but representatives, certainly.

  269. stpeter

    dwd: I see that as unlikely for now given my discussions with these folks so far

  270. stpeter

    ralphm: as representatives, yes

  271. dwd

    As far as NDA goes, I think we should gently push for XMPP related specs to be publicly discussed if at all possible, but these SDOs are generally more comfortable with full secrecy.

  272. ralphm

    does that still bind them with knowledge they may have outside their representing the Foundation, like, say, their employer?

  273. dwd

    Can't be as bad as the OMA, mind.

  274. dwd

    ralphm, Probably.

  275. stpeter

    dwd: right, and I don't see us changing ISO policies :-)

  276. dwd

    stpeter, Are ISO that much bigger than us, then?

  277. dwd waits to see if stpeter will take him seriously.

  278. Simon

    They have more than a PO box in Colorado - offices in Switzerland :)

  279. Tobias

    bigger in terms of us angle brackets usage?

  280. ralphm

    ISO has 163 members, according to wikipedia

  281. dwd

    Simon, TO be fair, we don't actually have a PO Box yet... :-)

  282. stpeter has been to the ISO offices...

  283. ralphm

    dwd: correction, anymore

  284. stpeter

    ralphm: I am not sure about that "binding" question

  285. stpeter

    IMHO we have an opportunity to help these groups, and we should take advantage of that

  286. ralphm


  287. dwd


  288. stpeter

    they're inviting us into their house to help, and we ought to respect their house rules :-)

  289. ralphm

    but I'm sure companies might want to know if their employees, because they become part of such a team, will be required to relinguish information

  290. dwd

    And once we're invited in, we can always return and drink their blood.

  291. dwd

    Or was that vampires?

  292. stpeter

    ralphm: right, that's a good question

  293. ralphm

    so at least we should know how that works

  294. bear

    IMO we should for the teams, with Council support - and then find out what it is like once "on the inside"

  295. stpeter

    ralphm: I can find out about that from the various SDOs

  296. bear

    we can always stop if IPR or NDA gets onorous

  297. stpeter

    bear: nod

  298. Kev

    bear: The problem with that is that we're in a position where we (outside the team) can't know how onerous it is :)

  299. ralphm

    bear: if that's an option, I'm all for it

  300. Kev

    This all seems messy and underisable, but we should help these folks so we probably have to live with it.

  301. bear

    the team can report to the board if something is fishy

  302. stpeter

    Kev: right, that's how I see it

  303. stpeter

    I mean, the way that these groups work is quite foreign to us

  304. bear

    it's how i've worked in the past as a consultant

  305. stpeter

    company-based membership or even country-based membership

  306. Kev

    bear: Yes. But what essentially happens then is that the work team get to tear down the liason unilaterally, as they can't tell Board what's fishy :)

  307. stpeter

    Kev: no, I disagree

  308. dwd

    Kev, I didn't *think* that the terms of liason would ever be secret.

  309. Kev

    Ahhar, excellent. I'd misunderstood. If details can be freely shared within the XSF there seems limited issue.

  310. stpeter

    Kev: they can't reveal the technical information, but if they think the liaison relationship isn't working or they have process / legal concerns, I think that's definitely open for discussion with the board

  311. stpeter

    or with the membership

  312. ralphm


  313. bear


  314. dwd

    The only dangerous possibility I see is someone deciding to wedge a non-RF patent into the specs.

  315. stpeter

    dwd: into our specs or their specs?

  316. bear

    but any action to *our* specs would have to follow our process

  317. stpeter notes that Simon needs to leave soon

  318. stpeter

    bear: yes

  319. dwd

    stpeter, Well, I'm thinking into XMPP-related their-specs.

  320. ralphm


  321. ralphm

    so we agree on this charter for UPnP?

  322. dwd


  323. bear

    I don't see any major blockers to moving forward with this

  324. ralphm


  325. bear


  326. Simon


  327. dwd

    Well, I'm voting yes anyway.

  328. ralphm

    While we await Laura's vote

  329. ralphm

    let's move on to

  330. ralphm

    2) Editor Team Charter

  331. ralphm


  332. dwd


  333. bear

    +1 for editor team charter

  334. dwd

    (With removal of clause as discussed)

  335. stpeter

    dwd: noted

  336. Laura

    +1 (as much as I understand)

  337. bear

    (as amended, yes sorry)

  338. ralphm

    Laura: on 1) or 2) or both?

  339. Simon


  340. stpeter thinks that we might want to have these charters under source control, as we do for XEPs and other official things

  341. intosi

    stpeter: good idea

  342. ralphm

    Simon, how much time do you have still?

  343. Simon

    I have 5 mins

  344. ralphm


  345. Simon

    Well I'll jump in quickly.

  346. stpeter

    thanks, Simon!

  347. ralphm

    In that case I want to quickly have your confirmations on refunding bean bags and hiring a cargo van for FOSDEM

  348. ralphm

    3 ^

  349. Simon

    So we have a bit of an issue: with DNSSEC potentially solving lots of problems for the XMPP community to do witih security but a) no modules in servers that fully support it and b) no doucemntation

  350. dwd

    I'm in favour of both.

  351. Laura

    Beanbags - my contacts have been unable to help (getting them Brussels is the problem)

  352. Laura

    Has someone found a good supplier?

  353. dwd

    Laura, Ralph has.

  354. Simon

    so I asked Shuman to write up a page on securing DNS as a first step: http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Securing_DNS

  355. ralphm

    Laura: I have actually already ordered them

  356. Laura

    Oh wow!

  357. Laura

    1 step behind...

  358. ralphm

    they will be 180x140 cm

  359. bear

    +1 to beanbags and +1 for van

  360. ralphm

    three different ones

  361. Simon

    but we need to find a way to, especially after the ISOC grant, to have more traction on getting this to work on the XMPP server level.

  362. ralphm


  363. ralphm

    designs ^

  364. Simon

    So my question is: how do we turn http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Securing_DNS into real code and implemented security on running servers?

  365. stpeter

    Simon: BTW, we can apply for another grant specifically about DNSSEC — the existing one was just to recognize us for being good people doing good work

  366. Simon

    Perhaps GSOC could help us with this too

  367. bear

    we should probably get the xmpp.net folks looking at it and then get some tools in place so that the membership can start pressuring their server vendors

  368. Simon

    They already check it.

  369. dwd

    Simon, We can either: a) Offer Actual Cash™ to those implementing it. b) Make it known we're going to call attention to implementation supporting DNSSEC.

  370. ralphm

    Simon: while we discuss your point as well, could you vote on the FOSDEM thingies as well, before you leave?

  371. Simon

    but there is no good doc on how to set it up and even Prosody's DNSSEC modules don't do everything.

  372. Simon

    "even prosody" :)

  373. Simon

    Perhaps I'll take this to the mailing list(s).

  374. ralphm

    Simon: agreed

  375. Simon

    Its not really a voting thing. Just something that concerns me about the [general lack of] security in XMPP-land.

  376. stpeter

    Simon: I totally agree, we need to improve things here to the extent we can (obviously there are limits to our influence over DNS stacks and such)

  377. intosi


  378. stpeter

    Simon: hey, we're getting there slowly but surely

  379. ralphm

    Simon: well, we are slightly making people more aware of these things

  380. bear

    getting it on the members list and then adding it to the summit agenda = +1

  381. dwd

    Simon, If you want the XSF to do something, the only things we can positively offer as incentive are recognition or cash. Different groups are going to respond better to one or other.

  382. ralphm

    bear: should it be a members-only discussion?

  383. Kev

    dwd: I don't believe that's true.

  384. ralphm

    isn't standards a better venue?

  385. Zash

    Psst, Simon, I wrote a DANE module for prosody ;)

  386. Simon

    agreed. Just surprised that we're still in the era of a) trusing DNS and not checking certs for validity. <sad face>

  387. Kev

    dwd: I think there's also, at least, lowering the barrier to entry.

  388. dwd

    Kev, In what respect?

  389. stpeter

    ralphm: yes, standards@

  390. ralphm

    or maybe even jdev@

  391. Kev

    dwd: If you want people to do something, making it easier to do that thing can only help.

  392. dwd

    Kev, Yes, I agree, but how can the XSF make it easier?

  393. Simon

    I'll Jdev it in the morning.

  394. ralphm

    Simon: thanks

  395. bear

    ack, yes - not members - nice catch

  396. Kev

    How that might look is another question. Writing a guide to doing dnssec, with sample code or whatever, is one option.

  397. Kev

    From an XMPP PoV.

  398. Simon

    jumping off now. later guys.

  399. ralphm

    Simon: can you place your votes on FOSDEM thingies before leaving

  400. Kev

    (In some sensible language that everyone has access to, so presumably C)

  401. Simon

    What am I voting on?

  402. dwd

    Kev, That'll certainly help all those servers written in C. ;-)

  403. fippo

    kev: +1 :-)

  404. ralphm

    Simon: beanbags and hiring a cargo ba

  405. ralphm


  406. Laura

    My vote +1

  407. Kev

    I'm presuming that all servers have access to C. Lots of Prosody's underlyings are, at least.

  408. ralphm

    Ok, I think we covered the DNS and security item on the agenda

  409. Simon

    Who are the beanbags for?

  410. Kev

    But it illustrates my point, regardless. Making things easy is another option.

  411. ralphm

    Simon: for people to lounge on

  412. dwd

    Simon, Us, at FOSDEM.

  413. Simon

    DWD - that's my issue. There's too much lounging at the realtime lounge and not enough interaction with potential folk.

  414. stpeter

    at the realtime lounge

  415. Simon

    it becomes a comfy hangout for us.

  416. ralphm

    Simon: I welcome you to become reengaged in the discussion on what we'll be doing at FOSDEM

  417. Simon

    which I don't think is the best use of funds.

  418. Simon

    I'm more a fan of the tables and demos on tables

  419. ralphm

    Simon: there will be lots of that, too. We have been discussion quite a bit of stuff over the last month

  420. Simon

    Sorry - been offline.

  421. Simon

    but yeah

  422. Simon

    I've never through the reclining thing is a great way to sell XMPP - too intimiate to be doing with a FOSDEM stranger.

  423. bear

    nothing wrong with a -1 vote for the fosdem item

  424. ralphm

    bear: agreed

  425. Simon

    I'm on the -1 for spending on these thigns then :)

  426. Simon

    +1 for spending on posters etc that get people to the booth.

  427. dwd

    Simon, Are you -1 on the van as well?

  428. Simon

    but I'll follow up on the list too then.

  429. Simon

    Can't see the point tbh.

  430. Simon

    -1 on van

  431. ralphm

    Simon: we will not do posters (made of paper) as there's no way to properly hang them, but we'll try projecting stuff on the walls

  432. dwd

    Simon, OK, I look forward to you carrying stuff from Cisco, then. :-)

  433. ralphm

    Simon: can I ask you to drive all the stuff from storage to FOSDEM?

  434. dwd

    ralphm, I'm actually keen on posters, too.

  435. Simon

    Ralphm - I mean around the campus.

  436. dwd

    Simon, Right.

  437. dwd

    I've one design done, another in the works.

  438. Laura

    Posters are a great idea

  439. ralphm

    dwd: paper poster elsewhere is a good thing, but the place where the lounge will be at has horrible walls

  440. Laura

    Spread the word further than the stand

  441. dwd

    Laura, Right.

  442. ralphm

    Well, summarizing that bit then, I see 4 people with +1 on both the van and the beanbags, and one -1

  443. ralphm


  444. bear


  445. Laura

    Looks right to me

  446. dwd

    Looked that way to me

  447. ralphm


  448. Kev

    Didn't you already vote that Ralph could do whatever he wanted anyway, for FOSDEM logistics?

  449. dwd

    Are we voting on how the vote went?

  450. dwd

    Kev, Yes, we did.

  451. Kev

    As long as Stuff Got Done.

  452. ralphm

    Kev: I wanted to make sure in this particular case

  453. ralphm

    I am still doing whatever I want, of course

  454. stpeter is sorry that he won't be in Brussels to help out

  455. stpeter

    BTW I do have confirmation of the meeting room on Thursday and Friday

  456. intosi

    Kev: I remember something like that.

  457. ralphm

    stpeter: no worries

  458. stpeter

    y'all need to figure out what you want to do for food

  459. ralphm

    stpeter: that

  460. ralphm

    stpeter and

  461. Laura

    Oooh Food

  462. stpeter

    there's a little café at the Cisco office there for coffee

  463. Laura

    Will be much needed

  464. ralphm

    stpeter: I would like to have some projectors. Do you think we can borrow those again?

  465. Kev

    How big is the pizza budget? :D

  466. stpeter

    I can arrange for lunches, or you guys can call out to pizza.be or whatever

  467. dwd

    Pizza works.

  468. stpeter

    ralphm: yes, I can arrange that with Jerome

  469. stpeter

    hildjj will be there in person so he can help with all that

  470. Laura

    Pizza good

  471. bear

    I will sponsor the Pizza budget for the Summit

  472. ralphm

    stpeter: right, I thought giving them a heads-up would be a good thing

  473. ralphm

    bear: thanks!

  474. Laura

    Thank you Bear!

  475. bear

    (well, as long as they take american cards)

  476. stpeter

    I'm thinking now that it would have been good for me to stay on one more week with Cisco to at least be able to arrange things at the last minute from inside

  477. ralphm

    bear: send me your logo to project along with other sponsors

  478. stpeter

    but I can have people help out, like linuxwolf

  479. bear


  480. ralphm

    stpeter: we'll probably be fine

  481. stpeter

    ralphm: I have contacts on the inside who can help here and there :-)

  482. dwd

    Speaking of meals, I've spoken with Florian, and he is booking the Auberge Brétonne (AKA, Florian's Babysitter), for Saturday. I'll be passing around a hat for sponsors as is traditional.

  483. bear

    getting the room reserved is like 99% of the pain for an event

  484. ralphm

    bear: and hotels :-D

  485. bear

    is that the place we ate at last time?

  486. Laura

    What about Thursday night - summit night?

  487. ralphm

    bear: yes, we go there tradionally for YEARS

  488. dwd

    bear, That's the traditional place.

  489. Kev

    Laura: People will probably just mingle organically.

  490. Kev

    There's a decent place 5mins walk from the hotel.

  491. Laura

    Ah man, am I going to miss the big get together dinner?

  492. bear

    I know I will be at the nearest Pub

  493. Kev

    And I think multiple, even.

  494. dwd

    Laura, The XSF Dinner is on Saturday partly because there's at least one sponsor for which the controller of the budget is only there on Saturday.

  495. Laura

    Booooo *grows up and stops acting like a child*

  496. bear chuckles

  497. ralphm

    Laura: we'll make it up to you

  498. intosi grins

  499. dwd

    Laura, Can't you extend your stay by a night?

  500. Laura

    I wish - at a wedding Saturday morning!

  501. dwd

    Laura, Unless it's yours, this is surely more important? ;-)

  502. intosi

    dwd: skipping them is frowned upon.

  503. Laura

    Ha ha, not mine or I might be panicking more!

  504. Laura

    Very old friends unfortunately or I would miss it!

  505. ralphm

    ok, ok, moving on

  506. Laura

    And I am involved, so absence would probably be noticed!

  507. ralphm

    anything else FOSDEM we need to discuss here?

  508. stpeter

    I think not

  509. Laura

    Not from me

  510. ralphm


  511. bear

    then we will need to have an amazing evening thurs or fri to help Laura feel less angst about missing Sat ;)

  512. Laura

    Hurrah! (and Thurs)

  513. ralphm

    5) ISOC post

  514. dwd

    Laura, Any chance you could draft something about the ISoc gift?

  515. Laura

    Sure can!

  516. dwd

    Laura, Not wanting to push work onto you, but I suspect you'd craft the best words.

  517. bear

    if Laura can do some wordsmithing I will do the work to get it posted

  518. Laura

    I can wordsmith

  519. Laura

    Can someone send me the details and I will write it tomorrow?

  520. dwd

    I think the details have already gone to the Board list, but I can dig them out again.

  521. Laura

    I will find them

  522. ralphm


  523. stpeter

    Laura: thanks

  524. ralphm

    then, I think we are at

  525. stpeter

    I can help / review

  526. ralphm

    6) AOB

  527. Laura


  528. stpeter

    Laura: I know the details / back story since I have a relationship with our friends at ISOC

  529. ralphm

    none, I assume

  530. Laura


  531. ralphm

    7) Date of Next

  532. ralphm


  533. ralphm

    8) Thanks all!

  534. dwd

    Thanks ralphm.

  535. ralphm bangs the gavel

  536. bear

    thanks ralph!

  537. Laura

    Bye all, thanks very much

  538. stpeter

    thanks Laura!!!

  539. bear apologizes for his servers acting up during the meeting

  540. ralphm

    wonder if a printer would be handy to have at FOSDEM

  541. bear

    Laura, do you think we should be doing regular posts between now and FOSDEM advertising the Realtime Lounge?

  542. ralphm

    bear: no worries, I'm happy to chair meetings every now and then

  543. stpeter

    ralphm: doesn't the FOSDEM team have a printer?

  544. Kev

    bear: I think that if you have a plan of what will be demod at the stand, then blog posts about those demos in advance might help.

  545. bear

    kev - agreed

  546. ralphm

    stpeter: I don't want to burden them with that

  547. dwd

    Yeah, we should nail stuff down.

  548. Kev

    The FOSDEM team gets pretty busy, I think :)

  549. stpeter

    well sure

  550. Kev

    Something none of us can relate to :D

  551. intosi

    We used to bring a printer the first few years.

  552. ralphm

    I think I might have an old deskjet lying around

  553. intosi

    Came in handy from time to time.

  554. stpeter

    do we have a better plan for remote participation in the Summit?

  555. ralphm

    stpeter: now you become interested in this, huh?

  556. MattJ


  557. stpeter


  558. dwd

    stpeter, Oh, good point.

  559. dwd

    stpeter, DO you have decent contacts with the Meetecho guys?

  560. stpeter


  561. stpeter

    dwd: yes I do

  562. dwd

    stpeter, It might be good to get them over/involved/etc.

  563. stpeter

    but I don't know if we'd be able to run their stuff — we could invite them to the Summit

  564. dwd

    stpeter, Right.

  565. stpeter

    ok I will reach out to them

  566. dwd

    stpeter, Can you drop them a line?

  567. dwd


  568. Kev

    Jitsi videobridge? :)

  569. dwd runs off for food.

  570. stpeter

    yes, will ping the meetecho guys now

  571. MattJ

    Ok, if meeting and FOSDEM stuff is over...

  572. MattJ

    Unencrypted s2s connections to {,muc.}xmpp.org: gmail.com, uww.edu, cisco.com, coversant.net, jit.si, imaginator.com, jabber.bluendo.com

  573. ralphm

    I can't even connect to cisco.com anymore

  574. ralphm

    without enforcing encryption

  575. ralphm


  576. MattJ


  577. ralphm

    maybe certain ciphers or something

  578. ralphm

    but really, this should be in jdev@

  579. stpeter

    dwd: email sent to our Meetecho friends

  580. MattJ

    Enforcing TLS on xmpp.org will affect peoples' ability to vote

  581. MattJ

    I could work out which members are affected, and ping them

  582. Kev

    I think we should simply not do it.

  583. MattJ

    So unencrypted membership voting is ok? :)

  584. Kev


  585. Kev

    If that's what people choose.

  586. Kev

    I don't care so much, as long as a long notice period is given for people to migrate to other accounts for XSF stuff.

  587. bear

    I agree with Kev - xmpp.org is special in this case

  588. Kev

    A couple of months or whatever.

  589. Zash


  590. Zash

    MattJ, mod_manifesto in reverse for the voting bot

  591. bear

    we should warn/remind our members that until ubiquitous security is in place that *they* need to make sure their s2s is secure

  592. MattJ

    Shouldn't xmpp.org really be setting an example?

  593. MattJ

    and XSF members by extension

  594. Zash

    s/xmpp.org/XSF Members/

  595. bear

    not when that example excludes members who may need to be shown how to do it

  596. stpeter

    bear: well, we could always create @xmpp.org accounts for members

  597. MattJ

    I was going to say they only need to create an account on jabber.org... :)

  598. Zash

    Surely we can help those than need help.

  599. bear

    when moving from a status quo of oh-my-god-no-security to locked-down-tight we have to err on the side of open

  600. waqas imagines a mod which informs remote JIDs when their s2s link is less than good

  601. MattJ

    waqas, already written

  602. Kev

    stpeter: I think we shouldn't do that, personally :)

  603. waqas

    MattJ: Which one? The last one I saw was for local users, not remote

  604. MattJ

    Yeah, I agree with not handing out xmpp.org JIDs, that has come up before and general consensus was against it

  605. Kev

    But if we can work out which members are affected (we have the memberbot roster for this), then we can announce a two-month-out date, and check each individually that they know they have to migrate servers.

  606. bear

    let's find out how many members are impacted

  607. stpeter

    dwd: BTW I am working on an I-D for the STRINT workshop before the London IETF meeting, see https://github.com/stpeter/xmpp-sec/blob/master/draft-saintandre-strint-workshop-xmpp.xml

  608. bear

    +1 to what Kev just suggested

  609. Zash

    s/migrate/migrate or fix/

  610. stpeter

    Kev: that seems reasonable

  611. MattJ

    > 17:33:30 MattJ> I could work out which members are affected, and ping them

  612. Kev

    Zash: I bet these people aren't running their own servers. I don't think any XSF member is going to be running a server without any TLS.

  613. MattJ

    Before you said you disagreed :)

  614. MattJ

    Kev, *cough*

  615. stpeter

    MattJ: you = ?

  616. Kev

    MattJ: I don't agree with participating in the encryption days.

  617. Kev

    MattJ: I don't oppose having a long-term plan to encrypt stuff, carefully.

  618. MattJ

    Kev, until recently several were, but ok... few now

  619. Zash

    ... dwd

  620. MattJ

    stpeter, sorry, that was addressed to Kev

  621. bear

    modify the MUC to report security status when joining ;)

  622. MattJ

    and I guess bear :)

  623. MattJ

    and the suggestion of pinging people before enablig it

  624. bear

    Matt - gather data and report it to members@

  625. bear

    let's get the conversation going

  626. MattJ

    Shall do

  627. bear


  628. Zash


  629. stpeter

    bear: yeah, Justin Karneges suggested a tag for that

  630. bear

    all insecure connections should be auto-assigned the role of "clueless" ?

  631. Zash


  632. MattJ

    If only we still had groupchat-style join/part messages :)

  633. stpeter

    yeah I always liked those

  634. bear turns his attention to a server that just doesn't want to work this morning

  635. Kev

    Shove it in their presence?

  636. Tobias

    MattJ, oh noes...the bload

  637. Kev

    "My connection is insecure, please let me know"

  638. bear

    ugh - I *hate* part/join messages

  639. stpeter

    "/me disappears in a puff of smoke" and all that

  640. Tobias

    MattJ, oh noes...the bloat

  641. waqas

    Send them PMs? :)

  642. bear

    the only client that does it properly is Swift

  643. Tobias

    we could also put silly *hats* on them ^^

  644. Tobias

    if we only had a XEP for that

  645. Kev

    bear: You'd be surprised how much work that was, too. But thank you :)

  646. bear

    not surprised at all - I'm glad that you got it working so well

  647. MattJ

    Tobias, oh, overlay a silly hat on their avatar

  648. Tobias

    MattJ, yup..intercept avatar request and render that :)

  649. Tobias

    just wanted to suggest that ^^

  650. Tobias

    MattJ, just needs a imagemagick lua binding

  651. ralphm

    bear, Kev: how's that?

  652. stpeter

    a little unlocked / insecure icon might jolt some people into taking action of some kind, I agree

  653. bear also

  654. Kev

    ralphm: sezuan, bruce.stephens@isode.com and aman have left the room and Tobias and Steve Kille have left then returned to the room

  655. Zash

    -xep Hats

  656. Bunneh

    Zash: XEP-0317: Hats is Standards Track (Experimental, 2013-01-03) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0317.html

  657. Zash

    Tobias: Do it!

  658. Kev

    ralphm: Which gets updated as people join and leave, so that all presence in a block is compressed to a single message.

  659. Tobias

    Zash, clients implementing vcard based avatars = all, clients implementing Hats = 0?

  660. stpeter

    actually Hats needs to be deferred — where's that Editorial Team when you need them? ;-)

  661. dwd

    Ooooh. Hats has example.edu - not an example domain as far as I can recall.

  662. MattJ

    Yeah, I went to Example University

  663. dwd

    MattJ, But that was surely example.ac.uk?

  664. MattJ

    Got my Example Degree and everything

  665. MattJ

    No, it was online

  666. Tobias

    MattJ, in what?

  667. dwd

    MattJ, BEx?

  668. MattJ

    Shut down shortly after

  669. MattJ

    Tobias, I can't remember

  670. dwd

    MattJ, Is Ian coming to FOSDEM, by the way?

  671. MattJ

    No, not this year :(

  672. MattJ

    Me neither, for that matter

  673. dwd


  674. MattJ

    Not that I'm trying to keep him away from you or anything

  675. Tobias


  676. dwd

    Don't tell me, you're going to a wedding?

  677. dwd

    Wait - Laura's going to your wedding?

  678. waqas

    Oh, so that's why he was inviting me

  679. bear

    who's getting married?

  680. Kev

    Matt and Ian, by the sound of it.

  681. MattJ

    Nobody I know!

  682. Tobias

    MattJ, you don't know your own father?

  683. bear

    congrats Matt and Ian!

  684. MattJ

    This conversation managed to get weird without the help of Fritzy

  685. dwd

    bear, I don't *think* a father/son marriage is actually legal in the UK.

  686. waqas

    dwd: I think you spoiled the surprise

  687. Kev

    MattJ: It did have Dave.

  688. dwd bows

  689. MattJ

    They were both trying to pair me off with people in Portland

  690. dwd

    MattJ, To be fair, you started it.

  691. MattJ

    No, Adam started it

  692. dwd

    MattJ, He did?

  693. waqas

    Adam wasn't the one who gave Dave an opening

  694. dwd

    MattJ, Oh, I see. Yes, I suppose he did. Him and Henrick.

  695. Kev

    It doesn't really matter who started it. It only matters that you're happy together.

  696. waqas


  697. dwd

    waqas, PLEASE rephrase that.

  698. Kev

    Either you and Adam or you and Ian. It's not quite clear to me what's going on at the moment.

  699. bear

    oh my - that was an unsettling mental image just now

  700. Kev

    That was the first?

  701. bear


  702. bear

    just an interesting way to start the day

  703. MattJ

    Are members' JIDs public?

  704. MattJ

    I thought they were, but now I don't see them on the members page on the site

  705. MattJ

    So maybe I imagined it

  706. Kev

    They are.

  707. Kev

    They're all on their application pages.

  708. MattJ

    Ah, and this is where I saw the list: http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/meeting-minutes/xsf-member-meeting-2013-12-05/

  709. Zash

    The. List.

  710. MattJ

    In that case, these are the ones on servers without TLS: axelsena (at) uww.edu bschumac (at) cisco.com zooldk (at) gmail.com dthompson (at) gmail.com emcho (at) jit.si jfrankel (at) coversant.net gnauck (at) gmail.com artur.hefczyc (at) gmail.com enuenschwander (at) coversant.net dave (at) coversant.net arcriley (at) gmail.com

  711. MattJ

    emcho's might do TLS, but there have been some interop issues with Openfire, so I need to double-check it

  712. ralphm

    at least some of them have other JIDs, too

  713. stpeter

    MattJ: thanks, that's helpful

  714. stpeter

    we can definitely ping the folks at coversant and jit.si

  715. stpeter

    I think Ben Schumacher has a non-Cisco JID

  716. stpeter

    hopefully gmail will get in line by May 19th :-)

  717. Steffen Larsen

    I'll change my JID into my own domain. who shall I write to give my other JID?

  718. stpeter

    haven't chatted with axelsena in ages

  719. stpeter

    Steffen Larsen: Alex Gnauck, gnauck@ag-software.de

  720. Steffen Larsen

    stpeter: ok! thanks peter

  721. stpeter

    sure thing!

  722. stpeter

    time for lunch here, bbiaw

  723. MattJ

    Hah, Alex is on the list with his gmail JID :)

  724. stpeter


  725. stpeter

    well, he has a jabber.org JID too, I know

  726. Steffen Larsen

    ha ha ha

  727. stpeter

    he is also gnauck@jabber.org

  728. stpeter

    that ag-software.de address was for email, I am not sure if he uses that for XMPP too

  729. stpeter


  730. bear

    I'm editing the summit wiki page to show that the venue will be cisco and to add the hotel link

  731. intosi

    bear: (Y)

  732. bear

    the dinner is saturday - right?

  733. intosi


  734. bear

    hmm, google is not giving me a link for that restaurant

  735. bear

    got it from a past wiki page

  736. bear

    ok, summit venue, hotel and dinner info updated

  737. ralphm

    bear: thanks!

  738. ralphm

    how did we get to the restaurant last year?

  739. Zash

    There was a bus

  740. ralphm

    Right. I varies per year.

  741. ralphm

    So I suppose we have to arrange that again. Or is that part of what Florian does?

  742. intosi

    I'm not sure actually. It always looks like Florian handles that part, but who actually knows?

  743. intosi

    It always appears he just knows all the drivers and such. No wonder he was hired by Uber ;)

  744. dwd

    I asked Florian about a bus, too.

  745. dwd

    MattJ, Are you suggesting we need to have all members on TLS-capable servers? I suppose that's probably the case given the Memberbot.

  746. fippo

    dwd: I wonder if the strint thing should explicitly mention that xmpp makes no attempt to hide metadata

  747. fippo

    i.e. from/to

  748. waqas

    We could have a vote on it, but the membership would answer 'yes' to both 'require TLS' and 'don't require TLS'

  749. dwd

    fippo, Probably, yes.

  750. dwd

    waqas, I vote yes.

  751. waqas

    'Should we rename XMPP to PPMX?', 'Do you want to stop being a member?', etc...

  752. dwd

    That's worrying. Google Plus now thinks my daily commute is to Tesco.

  753. waqas

    Is it right?

  754. dwd

    Frustratingly close to right.

  755. stpeter wanders back in

  756. Steffen Larsen

    I've dropped g+.. confusing, annoying and.. well could keep going.

  757. dwd

    No, not Google+, I didn't mean that at all. Google Now. That's what I meant to type.

  758. dwd

    waqas, BTW, I do like the notion of asking people if they want to resign as a question in the middle of the voting.

  759. waqas

    I vote for including that in the vote

  760. dwd

    Oh, we could get the members to vote on it.

  761. waqas

    How many do you think we'd lose?

  762. bear


  763. dwd

    I don't think it'd be a loss if anyone resigned because they vote yes to everything.

  764. bear

    I would also love linking you being able to vote for someone based on wiki logs showing you at least visited the person's application

  765. waqas

    Does the XSF want a larger membership (membership, not community which may include non-members)?

  766. bear

    active trumps size IMO

  767. dwd

    waqas, Yes and no. I'd like to see a larger engaged membership.

  768. dwd

    waqas, So I'd like more people, but I'd like them to be active in the XSF.

  769. waqas

    Most of the membership isn't really engaged, it's more like an easy merit badge you get and then forget about until the next vote.

  770. dwd

    Some people have been known to forgoet about it even longer than that...

  771. stpeter nods

  772. fippo

    and some people were on the members list despite not voting for years :-)

  773. stpeter


  774. dwd

    FWIW, I try to be fairly restrictive in who I vote for, but I suspect I'm nothing like restrictive enough. There's probably dozens of people I vote for who don't contribute anything at all to the XSF itself.

  775. waqas

    I think it's perfectly fine for anyone to be subscribed to public mailing lists, and the members ML is public

  776. waqas

    I'm fairly restrictive most of the time, but it's annoying knowing that a no from me wouldn't really change anything.

  777. waqas

    The only time I remember someone not being voted in was Solarius in 2008, who didn't want to use his real name. Was he even in the vote?

  778. dwd

    Yes, he was.

  779. waqas

    Yes apparently: http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/meeting-minutes/xsf-member-meeting-2008-02-07/

  780. dwd

    (I know, because I looked into it very heavily when Florian put in his last application)

  781. ralphm

    I often wonder how much it really matters

  782. fippo

    waqas: vt100 from jabber.ccc.de wasn't voted in either

  783. waqas

    I personally don't think it matters. No member of the XSF has ever verified my identity FWIW.

  784. waqas

    http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/meeting-minutes/xsf-member-meeting-2008-05-02/ - Mike Taylor not voted in, that's a surprise

  785. ralphm

    waqas: so you think

  786. MattJ

    waqas, I have

  787. waqas

    MattJ: I was careful not to let you touch my ID

  788. MattJ

    I saw your passport, and your photo

  789. dwd

    waqas, Oh, *this* converation again.

  790. ralphm

    waqas: were you awake all the time?

  791. MattJ

    He wasn't

  792. waqas

    MattJ wouldn't know if it was real or fake anyway

  793. dwd

    waqas, Still talking about your passport?

  794. waqas stays quiet

  795. intosi

    He didn't even notice you guys switched it, right?

  796. ralphm

    granted, MattJ can get lost in a city park

  797. intosi

    Oh wait, I wasn't supposed to know this.

  798. MattJ

    ralphm, I can't help it if the American idea of a "park" is about 30x the size of the kind I'm used to

  799. MattJ

    It was only 30cm on the map at the start

  800. dwd

    http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Kurt_Zeilenga_Application_2013 - heh.

  801. dwd

    Whereas Peter Waher has, "The main purpose for reapplying for membership is to be able to propose XMPP extensions." Nope.

  802. bear

    waqas - yea, I never figured out why so many folks voted no

  803. waqas

    This is a fairly widespread problem though, most applications have something like that as a reason

  804. Zash

    bear: Beard envy.

  805. Zash

    That's the only explanation.

  806. waqas


  807. bear

    I guess

  808. ralphm

    on the other hand florian had a horrible application (on purpose) but was voted in on merit

  809. bear

    I do know that i've forgotten to reapply a number of times and got dropped

  810. ralphm

    and that's fine

  811. fippo

    dwd: well, for years I was one of the few non-xsf xep authors

  812. dwd

    bear, As I recall, you got voted against because you used your real name, and nobody knew you as that, or something.

  813. Zash


  814. intosi

    The Inverted Solarius Syndrome.

  815. waqas

    I would have voted for 'bear' :)

  816. dwd

    I recall Fritzy explaining to me who you were.

  817. ralphm

    I think that technically I should have been dropped for not voting trice at some point

  818. intosi

    ralphm: weren't you?

  819. ralphm


  820. ralphm

    I was on the council and voted in that Q

  821. bear

    ahh - now that makes total sense

  822. ralphm

    bear: when are you legally changing that?

  823. bear