ralphmKev: did you do an inventory of our stuff stored at cisco last year?
KevMe? Certainly not.
ralphmhmm, wonder if anyone did then
intosiDon't think anyone did.
ralphmwanted to know how much hoodies/shirts we have still
KevWho was 'in charge' of hoodies/shirts last year?
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ralphmdon't remember I guess, thought you were
dwdThat's quite some set of assumptions.
dwdHands up who thought anyone was in charge?
KevI have never done anything with hoodies/T-Shirts
ralphmheh
SimonSounds like the Anarcho-syndicalism cabal was doing the selling last year. :)
ralphmsilly me
ralphmSimon: that's you then?
KevI keep away from that nasty business side of things. I'm just a simple techie.
Simonyep.
SimonMade a good wad of cash too.
dwdSimon, I posted a mish-mash of random thoughts on the impact of DNSSEC on XMPP security on G+; it might be worth turning it into a whitepaper/tech-brief we could stick somewhere, thinking about it. What do you think?
SimonGive me a moment to read it first.
Simonall makes sense. Benefit #1 for a lot of XMPP folk will be a 'fuck the CAs'. / I don't want to pay for a CA (/don't know about StartSSL).
Simondo we have any existing whitepapers? https://www.google.com/search?q=whitepaper+%2Bsite%3Axmpp.org doesn't show anything.
dwdI don't think the XSF has ever done whitepapers.
ralphmwe've always wanted them, though
Steffen LarsenIve started one on large scale XMPP
Steffen Larsenbut they are hard to write..
dwdThey are, indeed. I wouldn't mind reissuing some of P1's, and Isode's, and various others on the xmpp.org site, actually.
SimonI like the Isode whitepapers. Don't know what kind of people worked/work there, but theirs are nicely readable.
Steffen Larsendwd: yes Isode made some great ones
KevI forget who took responsibility for this at the last summit, but it was one of the things the XSF is going to do.
Kev(Republish people's whitepapers)
dwdWe keep discussing it. I'd like to do it. But I'm not going to start anything else until after this summit. :-)
Steffen LarsenKev: I think it was bear and winfried.. I was discussing it with them last year (europe summit).
SimonLaura and my planning for xmpp.org includes whitepaper space for different topics.
Simonwe'll do more planning and a quick presentation at the Summit.
ralphmKev: I think Bear volunteered last year, but he's been busy with other stuff
KevI think that being busy is a prerequisite for volunteering to do anything in the XSF :)
Steffen Larsenyeah. Most of us are busy. I promised to send my whitepaper to stpeter when we where in Berlin. But havent sent it yet.. So.. I blame my self. :-)
KevI'm happy for the blame to get spread around as long as none comes my way :)
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Steffen LarsenKev: thanks
Steffen Larsen;-)
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dwdKev, Can you create rooms on here?
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KevISTR admin superpowers worked strangely. I can certainly hack the Prosody install to change MUC config, as I have in the past, but asknig MattJ might be easier.
dwdMattJ, Same question to number two.
dwdrealizes belatedly that the Blind Date reference is probably lost on your youngsters.
MattJNo, I'm just about old enough
MattJBut you can imagine it was a very weird programme to one that young
MattJActually now I'm older, it was still a weird programme
MattJAnyway... what room?
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ralphmAsh: did you know that usually Ward is sorted before Watkin?
MattJUsually implies "not always"
ralphmMattJ: yeah, apparently not on our wiki
dwdralphm, That "r" in his surname is actually a Cherokee character, and sorts afterward using i;octet.
ralphmdwd: sure
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Ashralphm: Yeah - no reflection on Lloyd, but I do tend to get sorted first :)
AshNow you mention it I've only just noticed that the list of Summit participants is in alphabetical order on surname
AshI assume this is what you're getting at :)
AshUp until now I thought it was in no particular order!
intosiThere's a note at the end...
MattJThis is so important
LloydI am deeply offended by the sorting algorithm. I mean its 2014, if that's the best we can do we may as well pack up and all go home.
waqas+1
MattJFor next year we should develop a new wiki with automatic sorting so this kind of thing can't happen again
MattJI'm willing to volunteer a little time on it, but the board will need to decide on the license and ownership, and who is going to run it
intosi:)
MattJThe council can decide what language to write it in
waqasI propose a bidding war, people can donate to get their preferred sorting algorithm selected
MattJOnly monetary donations? What about hardware/software donations?
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AshI would like to see a XEP about summit participant list sorting. Until then it's in no particular order!
dwdHmmm... You realise we haven't changed the wiki software for a while?
MattJI do
SimonPlease add developing a better backend database to support these new sort functions too.
MattJSimon, oh really, I'd just assumed that would naturally be a part of it
dwdWe should probably debate that endlessly. I'm assuming it's about time we tried a static wiki.
MattJAlso it has to support XMPP
SimonActually I'm confused "The following people plan to be there in person: (H) means checkin on checkout on" What's the H mean? Hotel?
AshI think that was the intention - to get an idea of numbers
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dwdYeah, so we could figure out what block size to aim for.
SimonSo (H) means you are staying at the A-Loft. Non-H-ers are elsewhere?
dwdRight.
SimonClear as mud.
dwdGajim like to redner (H) as smiley-in-sunglasses.
SimonAsh: Are people working on code generators automatically in that group?
dwdFWIW, I would like the Wiki to notify us over XMPP. But I know we'd end up fighting over the right pubsub payload format which none of our clients would support anyway.
dwdBTW, I'll be late (probably) for the Board meeting this aft.
Simonactually the thought did cross my mind to stick page revisions into a buddycloud ./wiki node. But I quickly brain-bleached that away.
dwdI'm picking up my daughter at about 1620, takes me about 10 minutes to get back, but she probably won't be ready right away.
Ashdwd: As long as you include a <body/> as per XEP-0060 12.7: Including a Message Body then all clients should at least display something
Asheven if they don't understand it
dwdDon't understand what?
AshThe payload
dwdI didn't udnerstand that.
AshBut the body should be human readable, so hopefully you should understand it even if your client doesn't!
dwdShould understand what?
dwdis good at this game.
AshYou're like a 3 year old!
AshWhy?
dwdA three year old what?
AshWhy do you ask that?
intosidwd has trouble understanding anything but sheep 😉
Ashdwd makes less sense than the emacs doctor :)
intosiClippy Cridland?
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dwdintosi, It looks like you're trying to insult me. Would you like help with that?
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Lloydintosi, where you've gone wrong is that he's an english man living in Wales, whereas I'm estranged from my fluffy friends. Kev would be the easier target for that sort of joke as he has both bases covered :)
intosiLloyd: I'm fully aware of that ;) Let's say the healthy country air has altered his preferences somewhat ;)
intosiOr at least assume that it has.
dwdLloyd, Right. "I'm an alien. I'm a legal alien. I'm an Englishman in West Wales"
dwdAs Sting put it.
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SimonAny offers on meaningful work to keep dwd busy?
dwdralphm, intosi - either of you know if a van will fit into the Aloft's parking?
Simonwith enough speed, anything will.
Simonor do you want your deposit back?
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Ashdwd: Last year I parked right outside of the ALoft on the street. It was unrestricted in the evenings and at weekends which suited fine.
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intosiWe'll try parking outside.
intosiLike Ash said, evenings and weekends are fine.
intosiWe've managed to park cars on the streets of Brussels for more than ten years, this year might be slightly more challenging because of the size of the vehicle, but still possible.
intosiAs for the deposit, you'd have to ask ralphm;)
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LauraIs the Board meeting going ahead today?
ralphmI think so
ralphmdwd was going to be a bit late
ralphmhaven't seen bear yet
Laura*whispers* where is everybody?
ralphmSimon might still be around
Simonimagines bear hibernating at this time of year.
Kevralphm: I'd be inclined to take control again, IIWY :)
ralphmYes, I'd like to wait a few more minutes for dwd
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dwdarrives
dwdSorry for any confusion.
dwdralphm, Simon, Laura : In case you need the name-check.
ralphmconfusion?
Simonping
ralphmSo, without further delay.
ralphmbangs gavel
ralphm0. Agenda
ralphmWelcome!
Laura*cheers*
ralphmSuggestions for agenda items?
dwdI can think of FOSDEM/Summit, .IM DNSSEC, and sponsors.
ralphmnoted
dwdOh, and the secret new MUC room for Board folk to discuss potential sponsors in.
ralphmany others?
ralphmSimon, Laura?
LauraNothing extra
ralphmok, cool
SimonNothing on my part. Been planning mountain buddycloud hackathons and not as much XSF website work this week.
ralphmbooh
ralphm1. .im DNSSEC
ralphmDave: go
dwdSo, contacted Phil Adcock, via some LinkedIn chicanery.
dwdThe story there is that the DNSSEC project went on hold indefinitely some time back, but he's happy to revisit that potentially.
dwdHe's asked in particular if we have particular requirements around DNSSEC, or whether it's merely a nice-to-have - I've explained some of our use-cases for it in reply.
dwdAnd that's where we are.
ralphmNo reply since?
dwdNope.
ralphmok
ralphmthanks for doing this
ralphmI'm sure we'll hear more about that soonish.
ralphm2. Sponsors
dwdOh, Phil Adock is the CTO and Founder of Domicilium, the Isle of Man ISP running the .im ccTLD, FTR.
Simonthe's the man-who-can.
ralphmdwd: you are doing the records?
dwdralphm, Minutes you mean?
ralphmdwd: them too, you said FTR
ralphmanyway!
ralphmon to sponsors
ralphmYay Yetis!
dwdYes, &Yet have pitched in for the XSF Dinner.
ralphm&yet is sponsoring our XSF dinner for €1000, which is great
Simon+1 to &Yet.
LauraAnd I am in talks with Surevine about donating money. Tracking down my Directors for confirmation.
ralphmSimon: is that an offer from buddycloud?
ralphmducks
Simonralphm: I'd love to be financially able to.
dwdI have turned down one personal dinner sponsor; I've always felt a little uncomfortable taking money from individuals unless we're really desperate.
ralphmNo worries
Simonunfortunately this year is a bit tricky (so far)
ralphmLaura: awesome
fipponeeds to hunt down a director as well
dwdI've also got three potential sponsors; two of which seem to be outing themselves in this room. :-)
Simonoffers his services as a FOSDEM XMPP booth-babe. (how much does it pay?)
dwdOh, scratch that, I'm chasing four, actually.
Kevdwd: If it's a non-XSF member, it seems reasonable to me, FWIW (or someone who does XMPP consulting or something).
dwdKev, In both cases of personal, it's been XSF members.
dwdHappy to discuss names, but not publicly prior to a commitment of course.
Laura*separate question - how are people responding to an individual comment? As in including their name?
Laura*losing geek status*
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dwdLaura, You mean "/me"?
dwddoes this.
dwdWhich I did by typing /me does this.
Laurayes that!
Laura/dwd like this?
LauraNope
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ralphmLaura: no literally '/me something'
Lloyd / me (without spaces) says something
LauraTaking this to LLoyd off here - as you all were
ralphmWhile Laura figures this out, dwd, did you want to talk more about sponsors?
dwdAaaanyway. We also have the initial offer of Erlang Solutions, too.
dwd(Which was made publicly on the summit list)
ralphmBut as it mentions 'Silver', I assume this is a generic sponsorship, not for the Dinner.
fippodwd: was that about dinner sponsorship or xmpp.org sponsorship?
dwdfippo, It's unclear.
KevI read it as XSF sponsorship, FWIW, because they said silver.
dwdI'd like to know if there's someone willing to handle general sponsorship - I'd prefer not to take on anything else at the moment.
Alexdwd: how much do you need for the XSF dinner?
LauraLloyd: I am trying. Is this it?
ralphmI want to note that a Silver sponsorship doesn't mean sponsoring the XSF Dinner. In fact, you have to Platinum for this. http://xmpp.org/sponsor/sponsor-the-xsf/
Laura*quietly cheers*
LloydLaura: bravo :)
dwdAlex, €1,000,000. You offering?
ralphmLloyd: also teach her /me
Lloydhas already done this :)
dwdAlex, The dinner itself is somewhat of an open-ended thing, because the actual bill varies depending on how thirsty we are.
ralphmand of course how many people will be there
Alexdwd: I mean in total for dinner
fippospeaking of sponsors, it seems the voxeo sponsor logo is broken on xmpp.org
ralphmLooking at that sponsorship page, I note that some of our sponsor levels give right to a dinner seat. Do we invite people for this?
AlexI see only 1.000 from &Yet on the wiki yet
dwdAlex, As a guide price, at least €2,000. But there's transport and so on on top of that.
dwdralphm, Do we have any current sponsors at those levels?
Alexso at least 2,5K total I guess
ralphmWell, maybe ISOC now
dwdI would like to repeat this:
[16:56:14] dwd: I'd like to know if there's someone willing to handle general sponsorship - I'd prefer not to take on anything else at the moment.
ralphmdepending how they are factored in (1 year or spread across multiple years)
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dwdralphm, Yes... Depends if they actually want to be listed as a sponsor. I'd like them to be, but that's not what they did. Maybe ask stpeter to discuss that with them?
ralphmI'm still unsure why Gift and Sponsor are not the same thing.
ralphmBut yes
ralphmLet's get that know, preferably this week, and also have them at the dinner maybe?
ralphm(if there's somebody closeby)
dwdSure.
dwdI think we can invite them to the Dinner anyway.
ralphmI *think* Peter was talking to some Dutch representatives of ISOC anyway
dwdSo... Anyone want to volunteer to handle general sponsorship (and therefore follow-up with Erlang Solutions)?
dwdOr am I going to see if I can juggle one more flaming torch?
LauraSorry dwd, struggling to get the XMPP website off the ground at the moment. Once that is done I might be in a better position to help
ralphmI'm FOSDEM all the way
dwdRight, I'll see what I can do then.
dwdOK, that's all from me on sponsors.
ralphmRight
ralphmThen
ralphm3. FOSDEM
ralphm(Summit later)
ralphmThe bean bags should be arriving on Tuesday at my place.
ralphmI'm arranging the van tomorrow.
stpeterok, finally off my call with IEC, brb
ralphmI've updated the wiki page with a bunch of practical information, as well as sent out a message to the members and summit lists
ralphmstpeter: welcome
ralphmWe talked about posters before. Did anyone actually (volunteer to) work on those?
LauraI'm sure someone said they had designs started?
ralphmdwd had some suggestions earlier on, I have some ideas. Let me see what I can whip up later this week.
SimonRalphm: if I undstand it correctly, the posters are to tell people around the campus about the Realtime Lounge?
dwdI do have a design. I've not done more on those. I can look at printers.
ralphmSimon: yes indeed
ralphmdwd: does that make sense for you? I can source ones over here. Easier to transport, probably
SimonI'm happy to help with designs and commandeer a nearby laserprinter.
Simonand to put them up.
ralphmWhat size are we looking at?
dwdralphm, That's certainly true. I'll sling you an EPS/SVG or two.
dwdI was thinking A4.
ralphmdwd: inkscape FTW! :-D
SimonI think a3 and a4
ralphmA4 is good. I'm sure some places could have A3. I don't have a printer that size here, but there's plenty of copy shops in Eindhoven
SimonWhat's the message this year? "Lounge in Realtime at the XMPP realtime lounge. Beanbags included."
stpeterSimon: :)
Simon"snuggle up with your friendly XEP writer?"
Simonwill be standing
ralphmSimon: acceptable.
ralphmSo, I guess dwd and I will do this, then.
ralphmAny other things for FOSDEM?
stpeterreads http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/140122/
SimonRalphm - I could probably commandeer a colour laser printer for running off some posters.
ralphmIf you know of people that might give a nice demo on realtime technologies, please force^Hcoerce^Hask them to add to the list.
dwdNothing from me. I may try to source some stickers.
SimonA3 too.
ralphmSimon: cool. I'll work on the designs with dwd and pass you some PDFs
Simonok
SimonAny chance you can do them by Friday (I'm in the mountains next week).
ralphmI was tempted to try and arrange for t-shirts/polos/hoodies, but decided that we have enough going already.
ralphmSimon: that should be doable
ralphmBesides creating a design, we would again have to figure out sizes, man stands to sell them etc. Maybe next time (like at IETF London or a NA Summit if there's one. Do I hear Hawaii?)
ralphm4. Summit 15
dwdI only hear Hawaii if I can find someone to pay for me. :-)
ralphmdwd: heh
dwdWe've no food for the Summit. Other than that I *think* we're done.
dwdOh, food and coffee.
ralphmdwd: I thought we could source that at the local cafeteria/cantine. Except for Pizza.
MattJFood at the stand, a free cupcake for people who get an A on xmpp.net
dwdWe could just wander over. We've been known to get coffee into the room.
ralphmbut the little sandwiches were catered in?
dwdKev, Oh, it might be worth calling for any further discussion topics.
dwdralphm, No, ordered in advance from Cisco's internal suppliers though.
stpeter"<ralphm> I *think* Peter was talking to some Dutch representatives of ISOC anyway" - not Dutch, just the general ISOC folks
KevI did do that the other day. But I can do so again.
ralphmstpeter: oh
dwdKev, Oh, if I missed it then ignore me.
dwdKev, I'm just being frazzled.
Kevdwd: I mostly think this isn't the most important of activities anyway, given that we can't plan stuff properly until we're there.
KevNot that I'm arguing that having ideas of topics is bad in advance.
ralphmstpeter: but you do know people there (in .nl for ISOC). Given the nomination of xmpp.net at ISOC NL, it might be nice to have someone at the dinner, if they are coming to FOSDEM.
dwdSure.
stpeterralphm: I do not, but I might be able to find out (although you or Thijs might have better luck)
ralphmstpeter: right.
ralphmStill, do we intend to stick with the guidelines at our sponsorship page, and, if so, where does the gift of ISOC come in?
dwdstpeter, Can you see if ISOC want to be listed as a sponsor? I'd certainly like to be able to list them.
stpeteryes, they would like to be listed and they certainly deserve to be listed
dwdOK, great.
stpeterthey would be a platinum sponsor
dwdhas to depart shortly.
stpetersince they sent us $10k
ralphmstpeter: so that's one year?
LauraOn that note, draft blog has been shared with stpeter about that donation
stpeterralphm: well....
dwdLaura, Cool.
ralphmstpeter: see this is my issue
LauraMight need amending in light of calling them a sponsor
stpeterLaura: yes, thank, I will look at that as soon as we're done
stpeterralphm: in practice, we've been lax
ralphmstpeter: my point
stpeterso one year of sponsorship turns into two
ralphmstpeter: so maybe we should figure out how to do that better
stpeterand we're not clear about mid-year sponsorships
stpeterralphm: +1 for sure
ralphmstpeter: the page says 'prorated'
dwdMy wife's calling me for food, so I'll catch up on logs later.
ralphmI think we're mostly done her
ralphm5 AOB
ralphmNone
SimonNone
ralphm6. Date of next
ralphm+2W
ralphm(I'll be travelling)
ralphm7. ktnxbai
ralphmbangs gavel
stpeterthanks, all!
ralphmFrietjes!
stpeter:)
stpeterbbiab
LauraSee you in Brussels!
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stpeterralphm: do we have email addresses for all Summiteers?
stpeterI'll need that to help get wifi accounts for everyone
stpeterand I need to request visitor badges and such
SimonI'll bring my wifi-reshare-o-matic for use in FOSDEM too (I recall a weak signal)
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stpeterI am leaving the food arrangements to you unless you tell me that I need to coordinate with the on-site catering folks at the Cisco office
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Simon /me will miss Peter this year.
stpeterso please let me know ASAP if you need food ordered, since it's probably better for me to do that from my @cisco.com address
stpeterSimon: yeah, me too
stpeteranyway, bbiab, that two-hour session of rapid-fire answering every question about XMPP tired out my brain a bit
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ralphmSimon: adding more wifi signals into the mix only makes things worse
ralphmSimon: better bring 5GHz capable devices
KevRunning your own AP at FOSDEM doesn't sound like the world's best-ever idea.
stpeterKev: true :-)
fippoah no, only do that at events where sales people rely on internet connectivity to demo ;-)
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dwdhttp://imgur.com/n7l6n8C
Neustradamusfor informations, I contacted the master of .im about DNSSEC by twitter, and by email.
Neustradamus- https://twitter.com/Neustradamus/status/424964414026952705
- https://twitter.com/Neustradamus/status/425015669327810560
I sent one email after, I had one reply, I sent a second email with the complete request.
fipponeustradamus: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/140121/#15:47:12 -- dave made a similar attempt yesterday
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Neustradamusfippo: :)
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intosiRunning your own AP at FOSDEM is a sure way to get angry network operators at your stand.
intosiThey monitor these kinds of activities because it damages their network.
KevThat's what I said.
KevOnly with a stylish understatement.
intosiI think you cannot overstress this ;)
ralphmintosi: also angry stand reps. I.e. me.
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dwdNeustradamus, While your help is appreciated, it's actually really important to make sure contact like this is carefully coordinated, to make sure we give the impression of a professional body they should be taking notice of.
XSF Discussion - 2014-01-22