XSF Discussion - 2014-01-22

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  116. ralphm hmm, our members list needs editing, still listed as council
  117. Simon dwd: any news from your friend at .im?
  118. Alex I can fix this
  119. ralphm Alex: I assume that's for more people
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  122. Alex can fix them all
  123. ralphm cool
  124. none Hi all ))))
  125. dwd Simon, Nothing yet. His helpdesk replied, though.
  126. Alex http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-member-list/
  127. intosi Alex: thanks
  128. ralphm Kev: did you do an inventory of our stuff stored at cisco last year?
  129. Kev Me? Certainly not.
  130. ralphm hmm, wonder if anyone did then
  131. intosi Don't think anyone did.
  132. ralphm wanted to know how much hoodies/shirts we have still
  133. Kev Who was 'in charge' of hoodies/shirts last year?
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  135. ralphm don't remember I guess, thought you were
  136. dwd That's quite some set of assumptions.
  137. dwd Hands up who thought anyone was in charge?
  138. Kev I have never done anything with hoodies/T-Shirts
  139. ralphm heh
  140. Simon Sounds like the Anarcho-syndicalism cabal was doing the selling last year. :)
  141. ralphm silly me
  142. ralphm Simon: that's you then?
  143. Kev I keep away from that nasty business side of things. I'm just a simple techie.
  144. Simon yep.
  145. Simon Made a good wad of cash too.
  146. dwd Simon, I posted a mish-mash of random thoughts on the impact of DNSSEC on XMPP security on G+; it might be worth turning it into a whitepaper/tech-brief we could stick somewhere, thinking about it. What do you think?
  147. Simon Give me a moment to read it first.
  148. Simon all makes sense. Benefit #1 for a lot of XMPP folk will be a 'fuck the CAs'. / I don't want to pay for a CA (/don't know about StartSSL).
  149. Simon do we have any existing whitepapers? https://www.google.com/search?q=whitepaper+%2Bsite%3Axmpp.org doesn't show anything.
  150. dwd I don't think the XSF has ever done whitepapers.
  151. ralphm we've always wanted them, though
  152. Steffen Larsen Ive started one on large scale XMPP
  153. Steffen Larsen but they are hard to write..
  154. dwd They are, indeed. I wouldn't mind reissuing some of P1's, and Isode's, and various others on the xmpp.org site, actually.
  155. Simon I like the Isode whitepapers. Don't know what kind of people worked/work there, but theirs are nicely readable.
  156. Steffen Larsen dwd: yes Isode made some great ones
  157. Kev I forget who took responsibility for this at the last summit, but it was one of the things the XSF is going to do.
  158. Kev (Republish people's whitepapers)
  159. dwd We keep discussing it. I'd like to do it. But I'm not going to start anything else until after this summit. :-)
  160. Steffen Larsen Kev: I think it was bear and winfried.. I was discussing it with them last year (europe summit).
  161. Simon Laura and my planning for xmpp.org includes whitepaper space for different topics.
  162. Simon we'll do more planning and a quick presentation at the Summit.
  163. ralphm Kev: I think Bear volunteered last year, but he's been busy with other stuff
  164. Kev I think that being busy is a prerequisite for volunteering to do anything in the XSF :)
  165. Steffen Larsen yeah. Most of us are busy. I promised to send my whitepaper to stpeter when we where in Berlin. But havent sent it yet.. So.. I blame my self. :-)
  166. Kev I'm happy for the blame to get spread around as long as none comes my way :)
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  170. Steffen Larsen Kev: thanks
  171. Steffen Larsen ;-)
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  192. dwd Kev, Can you create rooms on here?
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  196. Kev ISTR admin superpowers worked strangely. I can certainly hack the Prosody install to change MUC config, as I have in the past, but asknig MattJ might be easier.
  197. dwd MattJ, Same question to number two.
  198. dwd realizes belatedly that the Blind Date reference is probably lost on your youngsters.
  199. MattJ No, I'm just about old enough
  200. MattJ But you can imagine it was a very weird programme to one that young
  201. MattJ Actually now I'm older, it was still a weird programme
  202. MattJ Anyway... what room?
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  208. ralphm Ash: did you know that usually Ward is sorted before Watkin?
  209. MattJ Usually implies "not always"
  210. ralphm MattJ: yeah, apparently not on our wiki
  211. dwd ralphm, That "r" in his surname is actually a Cherokee character, and sorts afterward using i;octet.
  212. ralphm dwd: sure
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  214. Ash ralphm: Yeah - no reflection on Lloyd, but I do tend to get sorted first :)
  215. Ash Now you mention it I've only just noticed that the list of Summit participants is in alphabetical order on surname
  216. Ash I assume this is what you're getting at :)
  217. Ash Up until now I thought it was in no particular order!
  218. intosi There's a note at the end...
  219. MattJ This is so important
  220. Lloyd I am deeply offended by the sorting algorithm. I mean its 2014, if that's the best we can do we may as well pack up and all go home.
  221. waqas +1
  222. MattJ For next year we should develop a new wiki with automatic sorting so this kind of thing can't happen again
  223. MattJ I'm willing to volunteer a little time on it, but the board will need to decide on the license and ownership, and who is going to run it
  224. intosi :)
  225. MattJ The council can decide what language to write it in
  226. waqas I propose a bidding war, people can donate to get their preferred sorting algorithm selected
  227. MattJ Only monetary donations? What about hardware/software donations?
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  229. Ash I would like to see a XEP about summit participant list sorting. Until then it's in no particular order!
  230. dwd Hmmm... You realise we haven't changed the wiki software for a while?
  231. MattJ I do
  232. Simon Please add developing a better backend database to support these new sort functions too.
  233. MattJ Simon, oh really, I'd just assumed that would naturally be a part of it
  234. dwd We should probably debate that endlessly. I'm assuming it's about time we tried a static wiki.
  235. MattJ Also it has to support XMPP
  236. Simon Actually I'm confused "The following people plan to be there in person: (H) means checkin on checkout on" What's the H mean? Hotel?
  237. Ash I think that was the intention - to get an idea of numbers
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  239. dwd Yeah, so we could figure out what block size to aim for.
  240. Simon So (H) means you are staying at the A-Loft. Non-H-ers are elsewhere?
  241. dwd Right.
  242. Simon Clear as mud.
  243. dwd Gajim like to redner (H) as smiley-in-sunglasses.
  244. Ash Customary XKCD reference: http://xkcd.com/1319/
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  246. Simon Ash: Are people working on code generators automatically in that group?
  247. dwd FWIW, I would like the Wiki to notify us over XMPP. But I know we'd end up fighting over the right pubsub payload format which none of our clients would support anyway.
  248. dwd BTW, I'll be late (probably) for the Board meeting this aft.
  249. Simon actually the thought did cross my mind to stick page revisions into a buddycloud ./wiki node. But I quickly brain-bleached that away.
  250. dwd I'm picking up my daughter at about 1620, takes me about 10 minutes to get back, but she probably won't be ready right away.
  251. Ash dwd: As long as you include a <body/> as per XEP-0060 12.7: Including a Message Body then all clients should at least display something
  252. Ash even if they don't understand it
  253. dwd Don't understand what?
  254. Ash The payload
  255. dwd I didn't udnerstand that.
  256. Ash But the body should be human readable, so hopefully you should understand it even if your client doesn't!
  257. dwd Should understand what?
  258. dwd is good at this game.
  259. Ash You're like a 3 year old!
  260. Ash Why?
  261. dwd A three year old what?
  262. Ash Why do you ask that?
  263. intosi dwd has trouble understanding anything but sheep 😉
  264. Ash dwd makes less sense than the emacs doctor :)
  265. intosi Clippy Cridland?
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  267. dwd intosi, It looks like you're trying to insult me. Would you like help with that?
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  269. Lloyd intosi, where you've gone wrong is that he's an english man living in Wales, whereas I'm estranged from my fluffy friends. Kev would be the easier target for that sort of joke as he has both bases covered :)
  270. intosi Lloyd: I'm fully aware of that ;) Let's say the healthy country air has altered his preferences somewhat ;)
  271. intosi Or at least assume that it has.
  272. dwd Lloyd, Right. "I'm an alien. I'm a legal alien. I'm an Englishman in West Wales"
  273. dwd As Sting put it.
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  276. Simon Any offers on meaningful work to keep dwd busy?
  277. dwd ralphm, intosi - either of you know if a van will fit into the Aloft's parking?
  278. Simon with enough speed, anything will.
  279. Simon or do you want your deposit back?
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  282. Ash dwd: Last year I parked right outside of the ALoft on the street. It was unrestricted in the evenings and at weekends which suited fine.
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  289. intosi We'll try parking outside.
  290. intosi Like Ash said, evenings and weekends are fine.
  291. intosi We've managed to park cars on the streets of Brussels for more than ten years, this year might be slightly more challenging because of the size of the vehicle, but still possible.
  292. intosi As for the deposit, you'd have to ask ralphm;)
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  296. Laura Is the Board meeting going ahead today?
  297. ralphm I think so
  298. ralphm dwd was going to be a bit late
  299. ralphm haven't seen bear yet
  300. Laura *whispers* where is everybody?
  301. ralphm Simon might still be around
  302. Simon imagines bear hibernating at this time of year.
  303. Kev ralphm: I'd be inclined to take control again, IIWY :)
  304. ralphm Yes, I'd like to wait a few more minutes for dwd
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  307. dwd arrives
  308. dwd Sorry for any confusion.
  309. dwd ralphm, Simon, Laura : In case you need the name-check.
  310. ralphm confusion?
  311. Simon ping
  312. ralphm So, without further delay.
  313. ralphm bangs gavel
  314. ralphm 0. Agenda
  315. ralphm Welcome!
  316. Laura *cheers*
  317. ralphm Suggestions for agenda items?
  318. dwd I can think of FOSDEM/Summit, .IM DNSSEC, and sponsors.
  319. ralphm noted
  320. dwd Oh, and the secret new MUC room for Board folk to discuss potential sponsors in.
  321. ralphm any others?
  322. ralphm Simon, Laura?
  323. Laura Nothing extra
  324. ralphm ok, cool
  325. Simon Nothing on my part. Been planning mountain buddycloud hackathons and not as much XSF website work this week.
  326. ralphm booh
  327. ralphm 1. .im DNSSEC
  328. ralphm Dave: go
  329. dwd So, contacted Phil Adcock, via some LinkedIn chicanery.
  330. dwd The story there is that the DNSSEC project went on hold indefinitely some time back, but he's happy to revisit that potentially.
  331. dwd He's asked in particular if we have particular requirements around DNSSEC, or whether it's merely a nice-to-have - I've explained some of our use-cases for it in reply.
  332. dwd And that's where we are.
  333. ralphm No reply since?
  334. dwd Nope.
  335. ralphm ok
  336. ralphm thanks for doing this
  337. ralphm I'm sure we'll hear more about that soonish.
  338. ralphm 2. Sponsors
  339. dwd Oh, Phil Adock is the CTO and Founder of Domicilium, the Isle of Man ISP running the .im ccTLD, FTR.
  340. Simon the's the man-who-can.
  341. ralphm dwd: you are doing the records?
  342. dwd ralphm, Minutes you mean?
  343. ralphm dwd: them too, you said FTR
  344. ralphm anyway!
  345. ralphm on to sponsors
  346. ralphm Yay Yetis!
  347. dwd Yes, &Yet have pitched in for the XSF Dinner.
  348. ralphm &yet is sponsoring our XSF dinner for €1000, which is great
  349. Simon +1 to &Yet.
  350. Laura And I am in talks with Surevine about donating money. Tracking down my Directors for confirmation.
  351. ralphm Simon: is that an offer from buddycloud?
  352. ralphm ducks
  353. Simon ralphm: I'd love to be financially able to.
  354. dwd I have turned down one personal dinner sponsor; I've always felt a little uncomfortable taking money from individuals unless we're really desperate.
  355. ralphm No worries
  356. Simon unfortunately this year is a bit tricky (so far)
  357. ralphm Laura: awesome
  358. fippo needs to hunt down a director as well
  359. dwd I've also got three potential sponsors; two of which seem to be outing themselves in this room. :-)
  360. Simon offers his services as a FOSDEM XMPP booth-babe. (how much does it pay?)
  361. dwd Oh, scratch that, I'm chasing four, actually.
  362. Kev dwd: If it's a non-XSF member, it seems reasonable to me, FWIW (or someone who does XMPP consulting or something).
  363. dwd Kev, In both cases of personal, it's been XSF members.
  364. dwd Happy to discuss names, but not publicly prior to a commitment of course.
  365. Laura *separate question - how are people responding to an individual comment? As in including their name?
  366. Laura *losing geek status*
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  368. dwd Laura, You mean "/me"?
  369. dwd does this.
  370. dwd Which I did by typing /me does this.
  371. Laura yes that!
  372. Laura /dwd like this?
  373. Laura Nope
  374. SouL has joined
  375. ralphm Laura: no literally '/me something'
  376. Lloyd / me (without spaces) says something
  377. Laura Taking this to LLoyd off here - as you all were
  378. ralphm While Laura figures this out, dwd, did you want to talk more about sponsors?
  379. dwd Aaaanyway. We also have the initial offer of Erlang Solutions, too.
  380. dwd (Which was made publicly on the summit list)
  381. ralphm But as it mentions 'Silver', I assume this is a generic sponsorship, not for the Dinner.
  382. fippo dwd: was that about dinner sponsorship or xmpp.org sponsorship?
  383. dwd fippo, It's unclear.
  384. Kev I read it as XSF sponsorship, FWIW, because they said silver.
  385. dwd I'd like to know if there's someone willing to handle general sponsorship - I'd prefer not to take on anything else at the moment.
  386. Alex dwd: how much do you need for the XSF dinner?
  387. Laura Lloyd: I am trying. Is this it?
  388. ralphm I want to note that a Silver sponsorship doesn't mean sponsoring the XSF Dinner. In fact, you have to Platinum for this. http://xmpp.org/sponsor/sponsor-the-xsf/
  389. Laura *quietly cheers*
  390. Lloyd Laura: bravo :)
  391. dwd Alex, €1,000,000. You offering?
  392. ralphm Lloyd: also teach her /me
  393. Lloyd has already done this :)
  394. dwd Alex, The dinner itself is somewhat of an open-ended thing, because the actual bill varies depending on how thirsty we are.
  395. ralphm and of course how many people will be there
  396. Alex dwd: I mean in total for dinner
  397. fippo speaking of sponsors, it seems the voxeo sponsor logo is broken on xmpp.org
  398. ralphm Looking at that sponsorship page, I note that some of our sponsor levels give right to a dinner seat. Do we invite people for this?
  399. Alex I see only 1.000 from &Yet on the wiki yet
  400. dwd Alex, As a guide price, at least €2,000. But there's transport and so on on top of that.
  401. dwd ralphm, Do we have any current sponsors at those levels?
  402. Alex so at least 2,5K total I guess
  403. ralphm Well, maybe ISOC now
  404. dwd I would like to repeat this: [16:56:14] dwd: I'd like to know if there's someone willing to handle general sponsorship - I'd prefer not to take on anything else at the moment.
  405. ralphm depending how they are factored in (1 year or spread across multiple years)
  406. Lloyd has left
  407. dwd ralphm, Yes... Depends if they actually want to be listed as a sponsor. I'd like them to be, but that's not what they did. Maybe ask stpeter to discuss that with them?
  408. ralphm I'm still unsure why Gift and Sponsor are not the same thing.
  409. ralphm But yes
  410. ralphm Let's get that know, preferably this week, and also have them at the dinner maybe?
  411. ralphm (if there's somebody closeby)
  412. dwd Sure.
  413. dwd I think we can invite them to the Dinner anyway.
  414. ralphm I *think* Peter was talking to some Dutch representatives of ISOC anyway
  415. dwd So... Anyone want to volunteer to handle general sponsorship (and therefore follow-up with Erlang Solutions)?
  416. dwd Or am I going to see if I can juggle one more flaming torch?
  417. Laura Sorry dwd, struggling to get the XMPP website off the ground at the moment. Once that is done I might be in a better position to help
  418. ralphm I'm FOSDEM all the way
  419. dwd Right, I'll see what I can do then.
  420. dwd OK, that's all from me on sponsors.
  421. ralphm Right
  422. ralphm Then
  423. ralphm 3. FOSDEM
  424. ralphm (Summit later)
  425. ralphm The bean bags should be arriving on Tuesday at my place.
  426. ralphm I'm arranging the van tomorrow.
  427. stpeter ok, finally off my call with IEC, brb
  428. ralphm I've updated the wiki page with a bunch of practical information, as well as sent out a message to the members and summit lists
  429. ralphm stpeter: welcome
  430. ralphm We talked about posters before. Did anyone actually (volunteer to) work on those?
  431. Laura I'm sure someone said they had designs started?
  432. ralphm dwd had some suggestions earlier on, I have some ideas. Let me see what I can whip up later this week.
  433. Simon Ralphm: if I undstand it correctly, the posters are to tell people around the campus about the Realtime Lounge?
  434. dwd I do have a design. I've not done more on those. I can look at printers.
  435. ralphm Simon: yes indeed
  436. ralphm dwd: does that make sense for you? I can source ones over here. Easier to transport, probably
  437. Simon I'm happy to help with designs and commandeer a nearby laserprinter.
  438. Simon and to put them up.
  439. ralphm What size are we looking at?
  440. dwd ralphm, That's certainly true. I'll sling you an EPS/SVG or two.
  441. dwd I was thinking A4.
  442. ralphm dwd: inkscape FTW! :-D
  443. Simon I think a3 and a4
  444. ralphm A4 is good. I'm sure some places could have A3. I don't have a printer that size here, but there's plenty of copy shops in Eindhoven
  445. Simon What's the message this year? "Lounge in Realtime at the XMPP realtime lounge. Beanbags included."
  446. stpeter Simon: :)
  447. Simon "snuggle up with your friendly XEP writer?"
  448. Simon will be standing
  449. ralphm Simon: acceptable.
  450. ralphm So, I guess dwd and I will do this, then.
  451. ralphm Any other things for FOSDEM?
  452. stpeter reads http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/140122/
  453. Simon Ralphm - I could probably commandeer a colour laser printer for running off some posters.
  454. ralphm If you know of people that might give a nice demo on realtime technologies, please force^Hcoerce^Hask them to add to the list.
  455. dwd Nothing from me. I may try to source some stickers.
  456. Simon A3 too.
  457. ralphm Simon: cool. I'll work on the designs with dwd and pass you some PDFs
  458. Simon ok
  459. Simon Any chance you can do them by Friday (I'm in the mountains next week).
  460. ralphm I was tempted to try and arrange for t-shirts/polos/hoodies, but decided that we have enough going already.
  461. ralphm Simon: that should be doable
  462. ralphm Besides creating a design, we would again have to figure out sizes, man stands to sell them etc. Maybe next time (like at IETF London or a NA Summit if there's one. Do I hear Hawaii?)
  463. ralphm 4. Summit 15
  464. dwd I only hear Hawaii if I can find someone to pay for me. :-)
  465. ralphm dwd: heh
  466. dwd We've no food for the Summit. Other than that I *think* we're done.
  467. dwd Oh, food and coffee.
  468. ralphm dwd: I thought we could source that at the local cafeteria/cantine. Except for Pizza.
  469. MattJ Food at the stand, a free cupcake for people who get an A on xmpp.net
  470. dwd We could just wander over. We've been known to get coffee into the room.
  471. ralphm but the little sandwiches were catered in?
  472. dwd Kev, Oh, it might be worth calling for any further discussion topics.
  473. dwd ralphm, No, ordered in advance from Cisco's internal suppliers though.
  474. stpeter "<ralphm> I *think* Peter was talking to some Dutch representatives of ISOC anyway" - not Dutch, just the general ISOC folks
  475. Kev I did do that the other day. But I can do so again.
  476. ralphm stpeter: oh
  477. dwd Kev, Oh, if I missed it then ignore me.
  478. dwd Kev, I'm just being frazzled.
  479. Kev dwd: I mostly think this isn't the most important of activities anyway, given that we can't plan stuff properly until we're there.
  480. Kev Not that I'm arguing that having ideas of topics is bad in advance.
  481. ralphm stpeter: but you do know people there (in .nl for ISOC). Given the nomination of xmpp.net at ISOC NL, it might be nice to have someone at the dinner, if they are coming to FOSDEM.
  482. dwd Sure.
  483. stpeter ralphm: I do not, but I might be able to find out (although you or Thijs might have better luck)
  484. ralphm stpeter: right.
  485. ralphm Still, do we intend to stick with the guidelines at our sponsorship page, and, if so, where does the gift of ISOC come in?
  486. dwd stpeter, Can you see if ISOC want to be listed as a sponsor? I'd certainly like to be able to list them.
  487. stpeter yes, they would like to be listed and they certainly deserve to be listed
  488. dwd OK, great.
  489. stpeter they would be a platinum sponsor
  490. dwd has to depart shortly.
  491. stpeter since they sent us $10k
  492. ralphm stpeter: so that's one year?
  493. Laura On that note, draft blog has been shared with stpeter about that donation
  494. stpeter ralphm: well....
  495. dwd Laura, Cool.
  496. ralphm stpeter: see this is my issue
  497. Laura Might need amending in light of calling them a sponsor
  498. stpeter Laura: yes, thank, I will look at that as soon as we're done
  499. stpeter ralphm: in practice, we've been lax
  500. ralphm stpeter: my point
  501. stpeter so one year of sponsorship turns into two
  502. ralphm stpeter: so maybe we should figure out how to do that better
  503. stpeter and we're not clear about mid-year sponsorships
  504. stpeter ralphm: +1 for sure
  505. ralphm stpeter: the page says 'prorated'
  506. dwd My wife's calling me for food, so I'll catch up on logs later.
  507. ralphm I think we're mostly done her
  508. ralphm 5 AOB
  509. ralphm None
  510. Simon None
  511. ralphm 6. Date of next
  512. ralphm +2W
  513. ralphm (I'll be travelling)
  514. ralphm 7. ktnxbai
  515. ralphm bangs gavel
  516. stpeter thanks, all!
  517. ralphm Frietjes!
  518. stpeter :)
  519. stpeter bbiab
  520. Laura See you in Brussels!
  521. Laura has left
  522. stpeter ralphm: do we have email addresses for all Summiteers?
  523. stpeter I'll need that to help get wifi accounts for everyone
  524. stpeter and I need to request visitor badges and such
  525. Simon I'll bring my wifi-reshare-o-matic for use in FOSDEM too (I recall a weak signal)
  526. Lance has left
  527. stpeter I am leaving the food arrangements to you unless you tell me that I need to coordinate with the on-site catering folks at the Cisco office
  528. Lance has joined
  529. Simon /me will miss Peter this year.
  530. stpeter so please let me know ASAP if you need food ordered, since it's probably better for me to do that from my @cisco.com address
  531. stpeter Simon: yeah, me too
  532. stpeter anyway, bbiab, that two-hour session of rapid-fire answering every question about XMPP tired out my brain a bit
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  535. ralphm Simon: adding more wifi signals into the mix only makes things worse
  536. ralphm Simon: better bring 5GHz capable devices
  537. Kev Running your own AP at FOSDEM doesn't sound like the world's best-ever idea.
  538. stpeter Kev: true :-)
  539. fippo ah no, only do that at events where sales people rely on internet connectivity to demo ;-)
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  545. dwd http://imgur.com/n7l6n8C
  546. Neustradamus for informations, I contacted the master of .im about DNSSEC by twitter, and by email.
  547. Neustradamus - https://twitter.com/Neustradamus/status/424964414026952705 - https://twitter.com/Neustradamus/status/425015669327810560 I sent one email after, I had one reply, I sent a second email with the complete request.
  548. fippo neustradamus: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/140121/#15:47:12 -- dave made a similar attempt yesterday
  549. Lance has joined
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  551. Neustradamus fippo: :)
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  553. intosi Running your own AP at FOSDEM is a sure way to get angry network operators at your stand.
  554. intosi They monitor these kinds of activities because it damages their network.
  555. Kev That's what I said.
  556. Kev Only with a stylish understatement.
  557. intosi I think you cannot overstress this ;)
  558. ralphm intosi: also angry stand reps. I.e. me.
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  561. dwd Neustradamus, While your help is appreciated, it's actually really important to make sure contact like this is carefully coordinated, to make sure we give the impression of a professional body they should be taking notice of.
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