XSF Discussion - 2014-01-22

hmm, our members list needs editing, still listed as council

dwd: any news from your friend at .im?

I can fix this

Alex: I assume that's for more people

can fix them all

cool

Hi all ))))

Simon, Nothing yet. His helpdesk replied, though.

http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-member-list/

Alex: thanks

Kev: did you do an inventory of our stuff stored at cisco last year?

Me? Certainly not.

hmm, wonder if anyone did then

Don't think anyone did.

wanted to know how much hoodies/shirts we have still

Who was 'in charge' of hoodies/shirts last year?

don't remember I guess, thought you were

That's quite some set of assumptions.

Hands up who thought anyone was in charge?

I have never done anything with hoodies/T-Shirts

heh

Sounds like the Anarcho-syndicalism cabal was doing the selling last year. :)

silly me

Simon: that's you then?

I keep away from that nasty business side of things. I'm just a simple techie.

yep.

Made a good wad of cash too.

Simon, I posted a mish-mash of random thoughts on the impact of DNSSEC on XMPP security on G+; it might be worth turning it into a whitepaper/tech-brief we could stick somewhere, thinking about it. What do you think?

Give me a moment to read it first.

all makes sense. Benefit #1 for a lot of XMPP folk will be a 'fuck the CAs'. / I don't want to pay for a CA (/don't know about StartSSL).

do we have any existing whitepapers? https://www.google.com/search?q=whitepaper+%2Bsite%3Axmpp.org doesn't show anything.

I don't think the XSF has ever done whitepapers.

we've always wanted them, though

Ive started one on large scale XMPP

but they are hard to write..

They are, indeed. I wouldn't mind reissuing some of P1's, and Isode's, and various others on the xmpp.org site, actually.

I like the Isode whitepapers. Don't know what kind of people worked/work there, but theirs are nicely readable.

dwd: yes Isode made some great ones

I forget who took responsibility for this at the last summit, but it was one of the things the XSF is going to do.

(Republish people's whitepapers)

We keep discussing it. I'd like to do it. But I'm not going to start anything else until after this summit. :-)

Kev: I think it was bear and winfried.. I was discussing it with them last year (europe summit).

Laura and my planning for xmpp.org includes whitepaper space for different topics.

we'll do more planning and a quick presentation at the Summit.

Kev: I think Bear volunteered last year, but he's been busy with other stuff

I think that being busy is a prerequisite for volunteering to do anything in the XSF :)

yeah. Most of us are busy. I promised to send my whitepaper to stpeter when we where in Berlin. But havent sent it yet.. So.. I blame my self. :-)

I'm happy for the blame to get spread around as long as none comes my way :)

Kev: thanks

;-)

Kev, Can you create rooms on here?

ISTR admin superpowers worked strangely. I can certainly hack the Prosody install to change MUC config, as I have in the past, but asknig MattJ might be easier.

MattJ, Same question to number two.

No, I'm just about old enough

But you can imagine it was a very weird programme to one that young

Actually now I'm older, it was still a weird programme

Anyway... what room?

Ash: did you know that usually Ward is sorted before Watkin?

Usually implies "not always"

MattJ: yeah, apparently not on our wiki

ralphm, That "r" in his surname is actually a Cherokee character, and sorts afterward using i;octet.

dwd: sure

ralphm: Yeah - no reflection on Lloyd, but I do tend to get sorted first :)

Now you mention it I've only just noticed that the list of Summit participants is in alphabetical order on surname

I assume this is what you're getting at :)

Up until now I thought it was in no particular order!

There's a note at the end...

This is so important

I am deeply offended by the sorting algorithm. I mean its 2014, if that's the best we can do we may as well pack up and all go home.

+1

For next year we should develop a new wiki with automatic sorting so this kind of thing can't happen again

I'm willing to volunteer a little time on it, but the board will need to decide on the license and ownership, and who is going to run it

:)

The council can decide what language to write it in

I propose a bidding war, people can donate to get their preferred sorting algorithm selected

Only monetary donations? What about hardware/software donations?

I would like to see a XEP about summit participant list sorting. Until then it's in no particular order!

Hmmm... You realise we haven't changed the wiki software for a while?

I do

Please add developing a better backend database to support these new sort functions too.

Simon, oh really, I'd just assumed that would naturally be a part of it

We should probably debate that endlessly. I'm assuming it's about time we tried a static wiki.

Also it has to support XMPP

Actually I'm confused "The following people plan to be there in person: (H) means checkin on checkout on" What's the H mean? Hotel?

I think that was the intention - to get an idea of numbers

Yeah, so we could figure out what block size to aim for.

So (H) means you are staying at the A-Loft. Non-H-ers are elsewhere?

Right.

Clear as mud.

Gajim like to redner (H) as smiley-in-sunglasses.

Customary XKCD reference: http://xkcd.com/1319/

Ash: Are people working on code generators automatically in that group?

FWIW, I would like the Wiki to notify us over XMPP. But I know we'd end up fighting over the right pubsub payload format which none of our clients would support anyway.

BTW, I'll be late (probably) for the Board meeting this aft.

actually the thought did cross my mind to stick page revisions into a buddycloud ./wiki node. But I quickly brain-bleached that away.

I'm picking up my daughter at about 1620, takes me about 10 minutes to get back, but she probably won't be ready right away.

dwd: As long as you include a <body/> as per XEP-0060 12.7: Including a Message Body then all clients should at least display something

even if they don't understand it

Don't understand what?

The payload

I didn't udnerstand that.

But the body should be human readable, so hopefully you should understand it even if your client doesn't!

Should understand what?

You're like a 3 year old!

Why?

A three year old what?

Why do you ask that?

dwd has trouble understanding anything but sheep 😉

dwd makes less sense than the emacs doctor :)

Clippy Cridland?

intosi, It looks like you're trying to insult me. Would you like help with that?

intosi, where you've gone wrong is that he's an english man living in Wales, whereas I'm estranged from my fluffy friends. Kev would be the easier target for that sort of joke as he has both bases covered :)

Lloyd: I'm fully aware of that ;) Let's say the healthy country air has altered his preferences somewhat ;)

Or at least assume that it has.

Lloyd, Right. "I'm an alien. I'm a legal alien. I'm an Englishman in West Wales"

As Sting put it.

Any offers on meaningful work to keep dwd busy?

ralphm, intosi - either of you know if a van will fit into the Aloft's parking?

with enough speed, anything will.

or do you want your deposit back?

dwd: Last year I parked right outside of the ALoft on the street. It was unrestricted in the evenings and at weekends which suited fine.

We'll try parking outside.

Like Ash said, evenings and weekends are fine.

We've managed to park cars on the streets of Brussels for more than ten years, this year might be slightly more challenging because of the size of the vehicle, but still possible.

As for the deposit, you'd have to ask ralphm;)

Is the Board meeting going ahead today?

I think so

dwd was going to be a bit late

haven't seen bear yet

*whispers* where is everybody?

Simon might still be around

ralphm: I'd be inclined to take control again, IIWY :)

Yes, I'd like to wait a few more minutes for dwd

Sorry for any confusion.

ralphm, Simon, Laura : In case you need the name-check.

confusion?

ping

So, without further delay.

0. Agenda

Welcome!

*cheers*

Suggestions for agenda items?

I can think of FOSDEM/Summit, .IM DNSSEC, and sponsors.

noted

Oh, and the secret new MUC room for Board folk to discuss potential sponsors in.

any others?

Simon, Laura?

Nothing extra

ok, cool

Nothing on my part. Been planning mountain buddycloud hackathons and not as much XSF website work this week.

booh

1. .im DNSSEC

Dave: go

So, contacted Phil Adcock, via some LinkedIn chicanery.

The story there is that the DNSSEC project went on hold indefinitely some time back, but he's happy to revisit that potentially.

He's asked in particular if we have particular requirements around DNSSEC, or whether it's merely a nice-to-have - I've explained some of our use-cases for it in reply.

And that's where we are.

No reply since?

Nope.

ok

thanks for doing this

I'm sure we'll hear more about that soonish.

2. Sponsors

Oh, Phil Adock is the CTO and Founder of Domicilium, the Isle of Man ISP running the .im ccTLD, FTR.

the's the man-who-can.

dwd: you are doing the records?

ralphm, Minutes you mean?

dwd: them too, you said FTR

anyway!

on to sponsors

Yay Yetis!

Yes, &Yet have pitched in for the XSF Dinner.

&yet is sponsoring our XSF dinner for €1000, which is great

+1 to &Yet.

And I am in talks with Surevine about donating money. Tracking down my Directors for confirmation.

Simon: is that an offer from buddycloud?

ralphm: I'd love to be financially able to.

I have turned down one personal dinner sponsor; I've always felt a little uncomfortable taking money from individuals unless we're really desperate.

No worries

unfortunately this year is a bit tricky (so far)

Laura: awesome

I've also got three potential sponsors; two of which seem to be outing themselves in this room. :-)

Oh, scratch that, I'm chasing four, actually.

dwd: If it's a non-XSF member, it seems reasonable to me, FWIW (or someone who does XMPP consulting or something).

Kev, In both cases of personal, it's been XSF members.

Happy to discuss names, but not publicly prior to a commitment of course.

*separate question - how are people responding to an individual comment? As in including their name?

*losing geek status*

Laura, You mean "/me"?

Which I did by typing /me does this.

yes that!

/dwd like this?

Nope

Laura: no literally '/me something'

/ me (without spaces) says something

Taking this to LLoyd off here - as you all were

While Laura figures this out, dwd, did you want to talk more about sponsors?

Aaaanyway. We also have the initial offer of Erlang Solutions, too.

(Which was made publicly on the summit list)

But as it mentions 'Silver', I assume this is a generic sponsorship, not for the Dinner.

dwd: was that about dinner sponsorship or xmpp.org sponsorship?

fippo, It's unclear.

I read it as XSF sponsorship, FWIW, because they said silver.

I'd like to know if there's someone willing to handle general sponsorship - I'd prefer not to take on anything else at the moment.

dwd: how much do you need for the XSF dinner?

Lloyd: I am trying. Is this it?

I want to note that a Silver sponsorship doesn't mean sponsoring the XSF Dinner. In fact, you have to Platinum for this. http://xmpp.org/sponsor/sponsor-the-xsf/

*quietly cheers*

Laura: bravo :)

Alex, €1,000,000. You offering?

Lloyd: also teach her /me

Alex, The dinner itself is somewhat of an open-ended thing, because the actual bill varies depending on how thirsty we are.

and of course how many people will be there

dwd: I mean in total for dinner

speaking of sponsors, it seems the voxeo sponsor logo is broken on xmpp.org

Looking at that sponsorship page, I note that some of our sponsor levels give right to a dinner seat. Do we invite people for this?

I see only 1.000 from &Yet on the wiki yet

Alex, As a guide price, at least €2,000. But there's transport and so on on top of that.

ralphm, Do we have any current sponsors at those levels?

so at least 2,5K total I guess

Well, maybe ISOC now

I would like to repeat this: [16:56:14] dwd: I'd like to know if there's someone willing to handle general sponsorship - I'd prefer not to take on anything else at the moment.

depending how they are factored in (1 year or spread across multiple years)

ralphm, Yes... Depends if they actually want to be listed as a sponsor. I'd like them to be, but that's not what they did. Maybe ask stpeter to discuss that with them?

I'm still unsure why Gift and Sponsor are not the same thing.

But yes

Let's get that know, preferably this week, and also have them at the dinner maybe?

(if there's somebody closeby)

Sure.

I think we can invite them to the Dinner anyway.

I *think* Peter was talking to some Dutch representatives of ISOC anyway

So... Anyone want to volunteer to handle general sponsorship (and therefore follow-up with Erlang Solutions)?

Or am I going to see if I can juggle one more flaming torch?

Sorry dwd, struggling to get the XMPP website off the ground at the moment. Once that is done I might be in a better position to help

I'm FOSDEM all the way

Right, I'll see what I can do then.

OK, that's all from me on sponsors.

Right

Then

3. FOSDEM

(Summit later)

The bean bags should be arriving on Tuesday at my place.

I'm arranging the van tomorrow.

ok, finally off my call with IEC, brb

I've updated the wiki page with a bunch of practical information, as well as sent out a message to the members and summit lists

stpeter: welcome

We talked about posters before. Did anyone actually (volunteer to) work on those?

I'm sure someone said they had designs started?

dwd had some suggestions earlier on, I have some ideas. Let me see what I can whip up later this week.

Ralphm: if I undstand it correctly, the posters are to tell people around the campus about the Realtime Lounge?

I do have a design. I've not done more on those. I can look at printers.

Simon: yes indeed

dwd: does that make sense for you? I can source ones over here. Easier to transport, probably

I'm happy to help with designs and commandeer a nearby laserprinter.

and to put them up.

What size are we looking at?

ralphm, That's certainly true. I'll sling you an EPS/SVG or two.

I was thinking A4.

dwd: inkscape FTW! :-D

I think a3 and a4

A4 is good. I'm sure some places could have A3. I don't have a printer that size here, but there's plenty of copy shops in Eindhoven

What's the message this year? "Lounge in Realtime at the XMPP realtime lounge. Beanbags included."

Simon: :)

"snuggle up with your friendly XEP writer?"

Simon: acceptable.

So, I guess dwd and I will do this, then.

Any other things for FOSDEM?

Ralphm - I could probably commandeer a colour laser printer for running off some posters.

If you know of people that might give a nice demo on realtime technologies, please force^Hcoerce^Hask them to add to the list.

Nothing from me. I may try to source some stickers.

A3 too.

Simon: cool. I'll work on the designs with dwd and pass you some PDFs

ok

Any chance you can do them by Friday (I'm in the mountains next week).

I was tempted to try and arrange for t-shirts/polos/hoodies, but decided that we have enough going already.

Simon: that should be doable

Besides creating a design, we would again have to figure out sizes, man stands to sell them etc. Maybe next time (like at IETF London or a NA Summit if there's one. Do I hear Hawaii?)

4. Summit 15

I only hear Hawaii if I can find someone to pay for me. :-)

dwd: heh

We've no food for the Summit. Other than that I *think* we're done.

Oh, food and coffee.

dwd: I thought we could source that at the local cafeteria/cantine. Except for Pizza.

Food at the stand, a free cupcake for people who get an A on xmpp.net

We could just wander over. We've been known to get coffee into the room.

but the little sandwiches were catered in?

Kev, Oh, it might be worth calling for any further discussion topics.

ralphm, No, ordered in advance from Cisco's internal suppliers though.

"<ralphm> I *think* Peter was talking to some Dutch representatives of ISOC anyway" - not Dutch, just the general ISOC folks

I did do that the other day. But I can do so again.

stpeter: oh

Kev, Oh, if I missed it then ignore me.

Kev, I'm just being frazzled.

dwd: I mostly think this isn't the most important of activities anyway, given that we can't plan stuff properly until we're there.

Not that I'm arguing that having ideas of topics is bad in advance.

stpeter: but you do know people there (in .nl for ISOC). Given the nomination of xmpp.net at ISOC NL, it might be nice to have someone at the dinner, if they are coming to FOSDEM.

Sure.

ralphm: I do not, but I might be able to find out (although you or Thijs might have better luck)

stpeter: right.

Still, do we intend to stick with the guidelines at our sponsorship page, and, if so, where does the gift of ISOC come in?

stpeter, Can you see if ISOC want to be listed as a sponsor? I'd certainly like to be able to list them.

yes, they would like to be listed and they certainly deserve to be listed

OK, great.

they would be a platinum sponsor

since they sent us $10k

stpeter: so that's one year?

On that note, draft blog has been shared with stpeter about that donation

ralphm: well....

Laura, Cool.

stpeter: see this is my issue

Might need amending in light of calling them a sponsor

Laura: yes, thank, I will look at that as soon as we're done

ralphm: in practice, we've been lax

stpeter: my point

so one year of sponsorship turns into two

stpeter: so maybe we should figure out how to do that better

and we're not clear about mid-year sponsorships

ralphm: +1 for sure

stpeter: the page says 'prorated'

My wife's calling me for food, so I'll catch up on logs later.

I think we're mostly done her

5 AOB

None

None

6. Date of next

+2W

(I'll be travelling)

7. ktnxbai

thanks, all!

Frietjes!

:)

bbiab

See you in Brussels!

ralphm: do we have email addresses for all Summiteers?

I'll need that to help get wifi accounts for everyone

and I need to request visitor badges and such

I'll bring my wifi-reshare-o-matic for use in FOSDEM too (I recall a weak signal)

I am leaving the food arrangements to you unless you tell me that I need to coordinate with the on-site catering folks at the Cisco office

/me will miss Peter this year.

so please let me know ASAP if you need food ordered, since it's probably better for me to do that from my @cisco.com address

Simon: yeah, me too

anyway, bbiab, that two-hour session of rapid-fire answering every question about XMPP tired out my brain a bit

Simon: adding more wifi signals into the mix only makes things worse

Simon: better bring 5GHz capable devices

Running your own AP at FOSDEM doesn't sound like the world's best-ever idea.

Kev: true :-)

ah no, only do that at events where sales people rely on internet connectivity to demo ;-)

http://imgur.com/n7l6n8C

for informations, I contacted the master of .im about DNSSEC by twitter, and by email.

- https://twitter.com/Neustradamus/status/424964414026952705 - https://twitter.com/Neustradamus/status/425015669327810560 I sent one email after, I had one reply, I sent a second email with the complete request.

neustradamus: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/140121/#15:47:12 -- dave made a similar attempt yesterday

fippo: :)

Running your own AP at FOSDEM is a sure way to get angry network operators at your stand.

They monitor these kinds of activities because it damages their network.

That's what I said.

Only with a stylish understatement.

I think you cannot overstress this ;)

intosi: also angry stand reps. I.e. me.

Neustradamus, While your help is appreciated, it's actually really important to make sure contact like this is carefully coordinated, to make sure we give the impression of a professional body they should be taking notice of.