I don't think we captured start times on http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_15#Agenda
Kev
ISTR discussing it in here (I vaguely remember talk of 9:30 for a 10am start Thursday, and 9:30ish Friday. Does anyone want to take ownership of that?
ralphm
I said 10
Kev
As an executive decision, or suggestion?
Kev
If the former, fancy updating the wiki? :)
dwd
If the latter, let's pick 0930 for 1000 as a decision and goto 10.
dwddecides arbitrarily to go for a BASIC idiom.
ralphm
Kev: suggestion. Feel free to set the time in the wiki, Mr. Chairman.
Simon
BASIC. Unsupported command. Try logo.
dwd
I have to admit I've largely forgotten Logo.
Kev
LEFT 180
Simon
FD 30, RT90
dwd
I remember what one did with it.
dwd
I just forget the syntax.
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ralphm
I had a German-language module without a manual.
Simon
http://www.calormen.com/jslogo/
ralphm
Had to dive into hexdumps to discover command names
ralphm
Maybe I wasn't the target audience.
dwd
So both LEFT and LT turn out to be legal. But Simon's comma is in error - no statement seperators.
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Kev
So, we have a general decision to start at 10 both days? (Aiming for folks to get there for 9:30 to settle down?)
intosi
REPEAT 36 [ FD 10 LT 10 ]
Simon
Sounds comfortable. 5 of us flying from Munich will be there at about 9am or so.
Kev
Do we know that this is OK with Cisco for us turning up?
Kev
What did folks arrange there?
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Simon
we'll camp at the airport and have breakfast or sumfing
Kev
I meant that a 9:30 start, rather than you particularly.
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dwd
BTW, we've a new top dinner sponsor.
Kev
What nice folks.
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dwd
And another sponsor confirmed! (Thanks ChatID!)
Simon
the MUC runners?
Simon
nice - thanks guys.
MattJ
Simon, actually ChatID is in the process of switching over to MUC internally :)
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Simon
Isn't that like IRC?
MattJ
Except with presence, strong identity, extensibility and... standards? :)
Simon
10/10! (Just checking we have our marketing lines all practiced ready for FOSDEM.)
fippo
*giggle*
fippo
can i rant about nickchanges in MUC?
waqas
Go on
waqas
fippo: Was it going to be about 2 presences vs 1? :)
Simon
fippo: please tell us a storey about Psyc.
Simon
shouldn't MUC be multicast?
fippo
haha @simon. ok, MUC sucks completly :-)
fippo
simon: MUC is like IRC but lacks multicast!
fippo
waqas: it breaks jingle sessions for example.
waqas
fippo: Ha, yes
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waqas
So a clients maintaining a fixed unique id for occupants works around this?
Simon
I'm more curious about your name on http://about.psyc.eu/XMPP :)
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waqas
Oh, and +1 to Psyc stories
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fippo
simon: see document history ;-)
Simon
Thursday evening. Drinks at XYZ bar and fippo explaining what the following means
Simon
Philipp Hancke (as author of 99% of psyceds net/jabber module): note that the following text is heavily biased, may contain inaccuracies and generally tries to persuade you that [[PSYC]] is so much better than XMPP.
Simon
fippo also popping up in random Austrian huts: https://plus.google.com/photos/+SimonTennant/albums/5973593611259914241/5973593611994742770?pid=5973593611994742770&oid=101190913792731232738
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ralphm
fippo: I could see something /like/ user nicknames in MUC. In fact, I think it would not be odd to see if we can improve upon MUC in several areas while maintaining backwards compatibility.
dwdalso hates nickname changing in MUC.
dwd
Means your server ends up keeping lots of directed presence markers around which are bogus.
Kev
I like Swift's approach to nickname changing.
Kev
If you can't make up your mind, leave the MUC and rejoin it with the right nick.
Simonlikes Swift's approach
waqas
I haven't seen Swift's approach yet
Kev
waqas: I just described it. No nick changing :)
fippo
ralphm: s/nickname/display name/
waqas
Ha
fippo
kev: i like it too. maybe you can explain emcho how cool it is :-)
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ralphm
"swift's approach" is what Google Talk expected, and caused presence fails
ralphm
In any case, I think that room nicks / display names should be orthogonal to presence
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dwd
ralphm, I agree, but that'd be a departure from the existing spec.
Zash
MUC2!
dwd
ralphm, FWIW, if we did split nicks and presence, then multiple occupancy becomes trivial.
fippo
and we can add multicast! :-p
MattJ
Uh-oh
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fippo
mattj: we just have to agree on a definition of what that means before ;-)
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Zash
MUC based on xep-33?
waqas
MUC based on pubsub, after we've made it turing complete. That way MUC doesn't need to be a separate piece of code, just something which runs on top of pubsub.
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MattJ
waqas, "after we've made it turing complete" - just ask ralphm about node as code :)
Zash
Eeuuuh?
waqas
We haven't standardized a language for node as code yet. You can't make a portable pubsub implementation without that.
waqas
XSLT with some storage feature built in? ^^
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ralphm
waqas: I'm not particularly inclined to redo on top of PubSub
ralphm
dwd: I think you can do a new join protocol, triggering an alternate mode. You can also do display name changes based on IQs, and block nick changes for legacy clients, like section 7.6
waqas
ralphm: You aren't seeing the full picture. Once it's turning complete, we can write an equivalent of emscripten for it. Just think: TCP over pubsub, Linux over pubsub. Portable across all conforming XMPP servers. The microblogging folks can finally implement the whole thing by running statusnet over pubsub.
waqas
All XMPP problems will be solved forever
ralphm
waqas: what's your favorite food?
waqas
Depends. Ice cream is generally good all the time though.
ralphm
haha
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bearshakes fist at Isode and their amazingly great sponsor amount
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dwd
bear, You'll also note that ChatID's amazingly great amount is one less than &Yet's, at least in binary...
waqas
dwd: I was asking MattJ if someone paying 110+101+100+11+10+1 would get 6 mentions
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dwd
It is quite tempting to fill those, instead of actually looking for the amount we *need*...
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ralphm
that said, donating more than once is possible
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bear
yes, I did chuckle at the 111 amount
bear
I think I will donate at the 101 amount
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dwd
Yeah, it's tempting to fill that end in that way.
dwd
Anyone in for a Euro?
fippo
dwd: here!
fippo
unless you turn down requests from persons
MattJ
Individuals have sponsored before iirc
MattJ
Put me down for €10 if you like :)
dwd
Yes, I've been pushing back individuals, though.
MattJ
Peoples' OCD might kick in to fill the gaps in the series
dwd
bear, You serious about the 101?
bear
yes
dwd
I could use a €100, really.
bear
101 or 100 - whichever is needed
dwd
But the new sponsors are listed...
dwd
Isode : €1001
&Yet : €1000
ChatID : €111
Dave 'dwd' Cridland : €110
Mike 'Bear' Taylor : €101
Matthew Wild : €10
Philipp 'Fippo' Hancke : €1
fippo
11 is still open
dwd
Oh, good point.
waqas
I can do the 11...
dwd
waqas, You're not even coming.
waqas
I can also do the 1 spot :)
waqas
I'll join over hangout/webrtc room if we have one :)
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MattJ
For the dinner?
fippo
waqas: i plan to bring equipment and setup something on the jitsi bridge with proper xmpp :-)
waqas
Nice :)
Simon
fippo - could you also do a demo of the Psyc XMPP bridge?
fippo
simon: the one i'm using right now?
Simonneeds moar multicast.
MattJ
Simon, do you have any idea what you're saying? :)
Simon
MattJ: I've read the wiki history.
Simon
and I've stuck in the snow in the mountains and need amusement.
fippo
simon: of course I can re-add the smart presence thing and show you how xmpp could have been alot more efficient a decade ago
fippo
well, almost :-p
dwd
fippo, PEP.
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dwd
Thanks, winfried!
bear
that makes my OCD so happy
bear
one spot left *hint* *hint*
winfried
One?
winfried
what about 1010
winfried
1011
winfried
1100
winfried
???
dwd
Question is whether I could allow a non-binary one...
Simon
or other numbers…
waqas
Well, we can allow conversion to decimal...
fippo
10000 ... ;-)
waqas
10000 = 16 in base 10...
dwd
I should stress the amounts *are* decimal...
dwd
Or else we get no dinner.
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bear
oh, I think we all will put on the appropriate "filter" if anyone wants to donate any amount
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fippo
i.e. making it a table with the appropriate base? ;-)
ralphm
sure, "any amount" is acceptable
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Tobias
emcho, so...to FOSDEM will Jitsi be able to call into jitsi video bridge and call to webrtc clients?
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fippo
tobias: not that I know of :-/
Tobias
:/
Tobias
what's missing, it's standard Jingle, no?
fippo
no... media level interop weirdness between chrome vp8 and jitsi vp8.
emcho
Tobias: we have a prototype working but I am not sure if we'll be demoing that on FOSDEM
Tobias
ahh...ok
Tobias
fippo, interop? is there more than one vp8 implementation?
emcho
Tobias: not really ... and it's not really only a matter of protocol
emcho
Tobias: not really ... and it's not only a matter of protocol
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fippo
tobias: chrome does some... interesting things at rtp level
Tobias
emcho, was that using Last Message Correction?
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emcho
nah ... some other bug
Tobias
fippo, ahh..ok. RTP level strangeness
Tobias
emcho, ahh..ok
emcho
the biggest hurdle is VP8
emcho
(which also comes with RED and FEC
emcho
that's what we are currently implementing
emcho
we already had VP8 but it wasn't complete and didn't work with chrome
emcho
we do have a prototype now ... but not sure if it makes sense demoing
emcho
not that stable
Tobias
ah..ok
Tobias
i find it very interesting....slowly approaching a skype replacement that has more than feature equivalence
dwd
Tobias, We're getting very close to parity from Skype's perspective - one-on-one and small conf-calls - but we're also able to cover other ground too.
dwd
Tobias, I'm personally hoping we can tackle the GotoMeeting/Webex/etc kind of capability, too, within the year.
Tobias
dwd, yup...especially with conferences in rooms with light control...kind of a pumped up skype conference similar to mumble but with better usability
fippo
dwd: we've had ~13 persons using th bridge last friday
dwd
fippo, Yeah, I think the bridge is a big part of this.
fippo
and the experience was very unlike https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYu_bGbZiiQ
dwd
Conf call IRL thing?
fippo
yeah.
Tobias
fippo, :)
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dwd
Lance, I like your push stuff.
Lance
thanks
dwd
Lance, And not entirely because you've managed to make "XEP-0198 Zombie" a term of art.