-
dwd
Estos are sponsoring the dinner too, for €111.11 - amusingly, they stipulated it was base 10.
-
Simon
Yay ESTOS
-
intosi
Would've been €7,75 if in base 2.
-
fippo
now you're confusing even me (-:
-
dwd
I have to admit I'm pretty impressed that intosi can translate non-integer binary to decimal.
-
dwd
Although naturally, it's wrong. Surely that's exponent and mantissa?
-
intosi
Nah, just regular fractions. So, it's 2^2 + 2^1 + 2^0 + 2^-1 + 2^-2.
-
intosi
Same as in any other base n, say n=10 ;)
-
Zash
If you know chmod, you know that 111 = 7
-
intosi
I don't think that's the part that impressed dwd ;)
-
dwd
intosi, I do know that given any base n, a number is divisible by (n-1) is the digits add up (recursively) to (n-1).
-
dwd
intosi, So in hex, for example, 1E is divisible by F because 1+E is F. This being the same thing that 18 decimal is divisible by 9 (1+8).
-
dwd
intosi, It's less impressive in binary, though.
-
intosi
Yeah, binary is easy, especially when going from binary to decimal.
-
Kev
I note that the reason I didn't reply to the Editor thread was because telling myself I was happy to help seemed pointless, rather than that I wasn't intending to.
-
Kev
Although it's just about possible that I'd count as a usual suspect in some respect.
-
dwd
It's just about possible that a Council Chair who also serves on the Infrastructure Team and additionally has performed tasks like GSoC Org Admin might possibly count as a usual suspect, yes.
-
dwd
But actually, I don't think it's quite right for Council people to be on the Editorial team. I'm not even sure it's right that Board people should be.
-
fippo
that depends on the job description of the editorial team actually. responding to bug reports, preparing small fixes and comitting them after huting down someone to review them isn't something i'd specifically volunteer for ;-)
-
fippo
because i do that anyway.
-
Zash
Draft everyone who ever complained about the XEP editor being slow? :)
-
ralphm
I think the bigger point is that it *should* bloody well be *other* people than those already doing things.
-
dwd
ralphm, Right.
-
dwd
ralphm, In part.
-
dwd
ralphm, For Council, the problem is that the Council is the body that decides what appropriate changes are. I can see a degree of conflict of interest if they're also the same people making the changes.
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fippo
dwd: depends... for typos the council is not needed imo.
-
dwd
ralphm, You'd potentially end up with a self-determining group; a spontaneous cell, if you will. Those are, I'm told, bad things.
-
dwd
fippo, Right, this is true. Nor are small grammatical edits. And the Council in effect decides where the line is.
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ralphm
well, there are people currently in this room who are not board/officer/council/infra
- Zash hides
-
dwd
Zash, I would point out that being on the XEP Editorial team would be something you could stick on a CV. And I'd hope it'd be less than an hour a week. So why hide?
-
winfried
Well, I don't want to hide here, and I take the rant of dwd at heart. But I do hesitate to take up a position in the editorial team. Right now I am already dissatisfied with the the too little amount of time put in the obligations I took upon me for the XSF. Taking up more obligations feels a bit the wrong way around. But I do think it is an important position and I do think, if I invest enough time, I will be able to do a decent enough job as member of the editorial team. So if we can share the workload enough within the team, I put up my hand right here and right now.
-
dwd
winfried, The rant wasn't aimed at you, or Zash, or anyone else here, really.
-
dwd
winfried, It's aimed at the ~60% of our membership who do literally nothing beyond reapply.
-
dwd
winfried, But FWIW, I think your recent BOSH work clearly shows you'd do an excellent job, probably far more than is actually needed. The bulk of what's needed is to keep on top of the actions required by the Council's decisions, and to get XEP submissions into the system smoothly.
-
winfried
thanks for the kind words, dwd, but still I feel my commitment to the XSF is bigger then what I am doing right now. So if the rant was aimed at me or not, I do take it at heart
-
winfried
So you can put my name on the list, hoping enough people step up, so the load can be shared.
-
dwd
winfried, One of the problems of writing something like that rant is that the people who take it personally are usually the people who shouldn't. Like you, they do so because they're aware of their responsibilities - I'd love you to get onto the Editorial team, because you'd do a great job, and be very dedicated - but you already do plenty.
-
fippo
phew. webrtc status update slides for the summit done
-
winfried
Great! Looking forward to those...
-
Kev
dwd: People making substantive edits are the authors, not the XEP Editor
-
Kev
dwd: Having Council able to fix typos, add in wording etc. seems fine.
-
Kev
It is Council, after all, who are able to block or remove specs if they don't like them anyway.
-
Kev
If someone on the editor team was to start making wholesale changes to a XEP then we have problems whether they're Council or not.
-
Kev
That is: This is not the review team.
-
dwd
Kev, Yes, I agree, but I still feel as if the two areas would be better kept apart.
-
dwd
Kev, If for no other reason than COuncil has plenty to do anyway.
-
Kev
I don't see a problem here, FWIW. I /do/ see problems with people on both Board and Council, but both Council and Editors don't seem bad.
-
dwd
I think it's roughly the same issue; that of oversight of oneself.
-
winfried
Trias politica? Editors = police, Council = judges, Board = Government?
-
winfried
:-D
-
dwd
That would make anyone on both Council and Editors be Judge Dredd.
-
winfried
Or any body on the council and board Putin ;-P
-
intosi
"I am the Law!"
-
Kev
dwd: I don't see how.
-
Kev
Editor isn't making substantive decisions.
-
Kev
Council is making substantive decisions.
-
dwd
Kev, RIght, and Council decide what is substantive.
-
Kev
Someone who was both doesn't gain any additional power that they don't already have.
-
Kev
It seems like you're complaining that Council have too much power over the process, rather than that the XEP Editors shouldn't be on Council.
-
dwd
No, I'm not complaining about the status quo. I'm suggesting that having someone be both performing and authorizing the changes is unnerving to me.
-
winfried
think the discussion is more or less if the council decides and the editors execute the decisions or if the editors take (some) decisions themselves and the council overviews the work of the editors
-
winfried
in the first case there is no problem, in the second case there is
-
Kev
dwd: But the changes the Editors can make are trivial, and the changes the author can make are wholesale - and we have no problem with authors being on Council.
-
dwd
Kev, Yes, this is true. For that matter, Peter was on Council for many years prior to your successful coup d'étât. :-)
-
winfried
kev but it is up to the council to decide when a change in trivial...
-
dwd
Kev, But that doesn't convince me of anything much other than I'll be in the rough on this one, more than likely.
-
Kev
For the 'editor goes rogue and is on Council' problem you need the whole Council to go rogue. And if that happens, the Editor part is immaterial.
-
Kev
Because if Council wants to make wholesale changes to a XEP then can get rid of the old one, and publish their own, without looking at the Editors at all.
-
Kev
And then Council would get ejected, and a new one would be put in place by the membership that would undo this.
-
dwd
We'd hope.
-
dwd
But in any case, we'll cross the Editor-on-Council bridge when we come to it; we might get enough volunteers as to make it irrelevant.
-
Kev
But excluding anyone who has ever served as an Editor from being on Council seems entirely pointless.
- winfried trying to gasp where this is about, I believe its about clear roles, responsibilities and access to the right to publish XEPs officially
-
winfried
who has technical access to the system publishing XEPS?
-
dwd
No, certainly. But there's a world of difference between my statement that "it's not quite right" to serve on both simultaneously, and extrapolating from that a blanket life ban on anyone serving in one to stand for the other. :-)
-
Kev
Iteam plus anyone Peter decides to give it to.
-
winfried
(and now I have to go for the remainder of the day)
-
dwd
Kev, Presumably the Editorial team would be running that.
-
Kev
dwd: Well, either you think it's OK for someone to make changes as Editor and then vote on them as Council, or you don't.
-
Kev
dwd: Yes, presumably so in the New Order
-
dwd
Kev, I think it'd be preferable to avoid it. I think you're implying a binary choice in my position that's not present.
-
MattJ
Oh, I missed a rant and a discussion
-
MattJ
The main reason I hadn't spoken up was because I wasn't sure it was right to be editing and approving
-
MattJ
I'm not sure it isn't, mind
-
MattJ
Given that, as someone pointed out, the editorial work is mostly minor, I'm not sure I see a problem with it
-
dwd
I'm not sure it's *wrong* as such. I merely said it's "not quite right", and "unnerving".
-
MattJ
Other than the fact that it shouldn't be necessary
-
dwd
And that, too. If we have to due to lack of alternative suitable volunteers, then we have more problems than that.
-
MattJ
So, if we still don't have enough hands in a few days, count me in
-
MattJ
But I won't post that to the list :)
-
Laura
Can I just check for sanity, this is technical editorial not wordsmithery (you know what I mean)?
-
dwd
XEP Editors? No, the role is the machinery of publishing XEPs, plus typo corrections and wordsmithery.
-
dwd
(Well, one would hope very minor wordsmithery)
-
Laura
Is there some detail somewhere? I am doing the wensite work at the moment (getting there slowly), but might be able to help?
-
Laura
Proofreading / writing marketing text I am good at. Technical specs / write ups is not my speciality
-
Kev
They're technical specs, but the XEP Editor isn't responsible for the content.
-
dwd
Laura, Ah. But you can't, quite yet - since you're not technically a member. In any case, the bulk of the workload relates to publishing.
-
Laura
Got you. I will stand down for now, just checking whether I could help as it seems resources are limited
-
dwd
It's not the resources that are limited - we've 50 something members that could help.
-
Laura
I should rephrase, vounteers
-
dwd
:-) Yeah, I'm being grumpy.
-
Laura
Nearly time for the Summit, that will make it all better :)
-
dwd
Yes, indeed. My train leaves at 0818, I'll arrive in Brussels at 1805... One of those times living out here gets annoying.
-
dwd
I can almost get to the US quicker.
-
Laura
Ouch.
-
Laura
Where are you?!
-
dwd
Carmarthen, West Wales.
-
dwd
So I'll pass by Surevine at least three or four times along the journey. :-)
-
MattJ
dwd, oh, we're on the same train :)
-
dwd
How exciting.
-
Laura
Anyone on the 3ish pm Eurostar?
-
dwd
Is Ian coming along too?
-
MattJ
dwd, sadly not
-
dwd
Laura, That's the one. 15:05?
-
Laura
Ash and I are on that!
-
MattJ
Yay, the XMPP train
-
dwd
The Isode folk are on the midday one.
-
dwd
I'm Coach 5, Seat 75.
-
dwd
(With UK power, natch)
-
MattJ
Carriage 4, Seat 81
-
Laura
Coach 3, seat 53 & 54
-
Laura
I don't take 2 seats, 1 is for Ash
-
MattJ
:P
-
intosi
Nicely spread.
-
MattJ
Anyone else taking the train from Birmingham?
-
MattJ
Going to guess not
-
dwd
MattJ, If they were, nobody else would admit to living anywhere near Birmingham.
-
MattJ
I won't admit to living near it, but it's... reachable :)
-
dwd
Yes... I know how you feel. Swansea is, after all, relatively close.
-
MattJ
I accidentally Swansea once, trying to get to Carmarthen
-
MattJ
Verb of your choice
-
dwd
"drove on the M4 past"?
-
MattJ
No, actually into Swansea
-
dwd
Driving out is the tricky part.
-
dwd
Because you're lucky if nobody's nicked your car.
-
dwd
If you've not seen the message, Surevine have pitched in for Dinner Money - €101 - six times. :-)
-
Simon
Yay Surevine
-
dwd
Indeed. And novel solution to the "binary problem".
-
ralphm
but we still have the 100 slot open
-
ralphm
also yay surevine
-
dwd
Germany seems like a dangerous place to be: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25922514
-
Alex
;-)
-
Laura
Yay Surevine (even though I won't be there for the dinner we are sponsoring!)
-
Alex
lets start our meeting in 3 minutes
-
Alex
okay
- Alex bangs teh gavel
-
Alex
here is our agenda for today: http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/meeting-minutes/xsf-member-meeting-2014-01-28/
-
Alex
1) Call for Quorum
-
Alex
as you can see 32 members voted via proxy, so we have a quorum
-
Alex
2) Items Subject to a Vote
-
Alex
new and returning members, you can see all applicants here: http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Membership_Applications_Q4_2013
-
Alex
3) Opportunity for XSF Members to Vote in the Meeting
-
Alex
anybody wants to vote here in the meeting?
-
Alex
if not I start counting and prepare the results
-
ralphm
Go
-
fippo
simon: anybody who wants to vote from the mountains?
- ralphm wacks fippo
-
Simon
I'm not sure if it's a good idea to vote after the wine.
-
Zash
Nobody needs to know
-
ralphm
Zash: I'm afraid we will anyway
-
Simon
ge-voted.
- dwd dashes in late
-
Alex
4) Announcement of Voting Results
-
Alex
if you reload the page you can see the results:
-
Alex
http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/meeting-minutes/xsf-member-meeting-2014-01-28/
-
Alex
all new and returning members are accepted
-
Alex
error on Kurt's results, just fixed
-
Alex
5) any other Business?
-
Alex
6) Formal Adjournment
-
ralphm
Thanks Alex
-
Alex
I motion that we adjourn
-
ralphm
+1
- Alex bangs the gavel
-
MiGri
thanks
-
fippo
https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/428283011470094336 is HIGHLY amusing
-
fippo
brendan eich saying that xmpp went too much enterprise. mentioning &yet. in reply to me.
-
lloyd.watkin
:)
-
Simon
Is there a way to convert markdown to a XEP?