"During a security review, we found that LibraryThing suffered a data breach in November 2011."
emchohas left
emchohas joined
ralphm
hm
kevinhas left
Jefhas left
intosihas left
intosihas joined
emchohas left
emchohas joined
Simonhas joined
Zashhas joined
waqashas joined
SouLhas joined
SouLhas left
SouLhas joined
Jefhas joined
ralphmhas left
waqashas left
SouLhas left
SouLhas joined
waqashas joined
Lancehas joined
emchohas left
emchohas joined
ralphm
Board Meeting in 6 min.
ralphm
However, dwd is likely to be slightly late
stpeterhas joined
ralphm
No sign of Laura or Bear so far.
stpeter
I know for a fact that Bear's internet is down (ice storm in Philadelphia)
ralphm
What, no redundancy?
stpeter
:)
stpeter
ice storms can wreak havoc
emchohas left
Simon
I'm here.
ralphm
We have no quorum yet
ralphm
So I'll wait for dwd to come back at least
Simon
board meetings are a nice distraction from zone file and secondary DNS propagation debugging.
stpeter
ok
ralphm
Simon: awesome
emchohas joined
dwd
Back, just give me a minute to get settled.
dwd
Just walked in through the door.
ralphm
dwd: no worries
intosi
[non-XSF] stpeter: any idea when Jerry will be able to kick hermes2?
stpeter
intosi, no but I'll ping him
dwd
OK.
ralphm
0. Opening
ralphm
Welcome.
intosi
stpeter: ta
ralphm
Bear is excused for his absense by Act of God.
ralphm
Agenda items.
ralphm
Summit/FOSDEM recap
ralphm
Simon, dwd: any other items?
ralphm
stpeter maybe?
Simon
Summit recap is all i have on my list for today.
Lloyd
Laura sends apologies, interview running long, will be along ASAP
dwd
We probably need to get on with Boring Things.
Simon
I expect next week we'll have more non summit things to talk about.
ralphm
Lloyd: is that worth waiting on?
dwd
We've a potential sponsor, we should sort out the membership applications.
ralphm
I seem to only have Alex on jabber.org, which is down at the moment.
ralphm
1. XMPP Summit 15 / FOSDEM recap
Lloyd
raplhm, trying to find out, if you have enough people I'd say carry on.
ralphm
First off, that was a blast.
dwd
I agree. I thought it went amazingly well.
ralphm
The Summit was very productive, and we have had a good audience and presence at FOSDEM with the Realtime Lounge.
ralphm
I'm still collecting some pictures on the Google Plus event page, and will likely make a nice little video from them
dwd
Yes, and we drew some new faces and had fun.
ralphm
So I'd like to thank everyone involved, again!
ralphm
Then onto the less entertaining bits: finances
stpeter
yes, thanks to everyone!
dwd
Given you led the FOSDEM side, I'll join you in thanking yourself.
Simon
FOSDEM was good. And fun. Things that would have helped… a) nobody knew where the realtime lounge was - (we could have some events there or something to get it onto a program for next year). b) there was no signage.
ralphm
dwd: hah!
ralphm
Simon: agreed
dwd
Simon, Sure. It might be worth making a note of the things we think would have made it better now, actually.
ralphm
We did bring some gear to make signs, but simply didn't get around to work on them
Simon
(annecdote: overheard someone asking for "the difinitive XMPP guide at the oreilly stand - said hello and that he should come and talk to the author at the realtime longe. His response - I've never heard of that"
dwd
I mean, not in this meeting, but in this time period.
ralphm
dwd: yes
ralphm
For next year, I'll make it explicit with the FOSDEM people to put us in all materials as such at least.
dwd
We tend to try and think of what to do in the third or fourth week of January, rather than properly doing a post-mortem when it's fresh.
Simon
Summit was also good. I feel very happy about the progress made to address posts like Ge0rG's
Simon
(on mobile)
Kev
I'd suggest the best way to make sure you notice as the time comes is to start the 2015 wiki page now.
ralphm
We've earned additional credits for cleaning up after another project that shall remain nameless here.
Kev
Unless you have more faith your ability to remember stuff than I have in mine :)
dwd
Simon, Yes, that too. I always fear that a Summit can easily denegerate into rather vague discussions, but Kev kept us very much on track.
ralphm
Kev: well, we did have a checklist from last year, and largely worked from it, we can just amend it
Also, pheer my accounting skillz. But don't show a real acocuntant, as they'll note that it's not double-entry - really, the XSF should have a general ledger column.
dwd
Lovely.
dwd
It has comments, but the key is that on the bottom 3 rightmost cells, is the overall figure.
dwd
Which is a loss.
Lancehas left
stpeter
dwd: thanks for the spreadsheet!
Kev
dwd: That's a loss for the whole of the summit+FOSDEM, but that was expected, I think? As in - no money was raised for the beanbags et al.
ralphm
Kev: yes
ralphm
except for one bag now
dwd
Kev, Right - in fact &Yet have paid for the Realtime Beanbag.
Kev
Which isn't on the spreadsheet?
dwd
Kev, But the XSF Dinner sponsorship basically paid for all the food at the Summit as well as the dinner and transport.
ralphm
Kev: in the notes
ralphm
(in the &yet column)
dwd
Kev, It is, it's considered part of their offer. Comments reveal the breakdown.
Kev
Ah.
stpeter
BTW, we've never really had "expense reports" since I've always been shelling out the money, but I think we can work that out with proper receipts and such
dwd
The position is essentially that the XSF curently owes Ralph and I, and a few sponsors need an invoice.
Kev
I find this spreadsheet quite informative, so thanks for sharing.
ralphm
stpeter: I have receipts for all items. Who do I send them to?
dwd
One informative thing is that - rather stupidly, actually - I ended up with the cash. Since it's Euros, it'd have been much more sensible to have Ralph take that. :-)
stpeter
ralphm: I think you would scan them in and send them to the board@ list (which is what I've always done)
ralphm
stpeter: ack
ralphm
dwd: eh, yeah
fippo
dwd: I wondered why you wanted cash... ;-)
stpeter
dwd: indeed
ralphm
dwd: I didn't actually think that through
dwd
stpeter, Similarly I've the Dinner receipt, though not any receipt for the tip.
dwd
ralphm, No, nor did I.
stpeter
dwd: in the past, I have taken the cash (if any) and changed it upon return to the States, then put it back in our bank account
dwd
ralphm, Now, if only we had a Treasurer, we could get paid.
ralphm
dwd: I was assuming that's you really
stpeter
right, we do lack a real Treasurer
stpeter
and have for years
Tobias
the last one was jack, no?
stpeter
but that's out of scope for today's meeting, I think :-)
ralphm
stpeter: let's put it on next weeks agenda
stpeter
even Jack was never established properly as the Treasuruer with bank access and such
Tobias
ah..ok
ralphm
stpeter: so I'll guess that's just you now, right?
stpeter
yes
SouLhas left
dwd
Anyway, would the Board like to approve that spreadsheet at this point?
ralphm
I looks good to me
Simon
happy to approve.
ralphm
dwd: are any mutations expected?
dwd
I don't know of any pending changes.
ralphm
I assume you haven't actually gotten all donations yet
dwd
I don't know if Bear's finished his changes, but I think so.
ralphm
I wonder if it would be more cost-effective to have not route some of that through the US
dwd
ralphm, No, the XSF needs to invoice the remaining amounts.
ralphm
e.g. having a in-EU transfer to me from isode
stpeter
ralphm: perhaps
dwd
Yeah... I can discuss that with Isode if you like.
ralphm
knowing that US money transfers are crazy expensive
ralphm
I don't want to sponsor the banks if not needed
ralphm
Ok
ralphm
anything else?
stpeter
couldn't we use the obscure and never-documented Instant Money (IM) extensions to XMPP?
SouLhas joined
ralphm
stpeter: sure
dwd
stpeter, They turn out to be troublesome to oeprate. Many start-ups have tried.
Lancehas joined
ralphm
2. Sponsors
ralphm
dwd: go
dwd
We have at least one interested sponsor, possibly two. One is ready for some formal instructions on how to proceed.
xnyhpshas left
Lloydhas left
stpeter
that reminds me, I need to read Laura's draft of a post about ISOC
ralphm
stpeter: how does this usually work?
stpeter
dwd: what I've done is invoice the sponsor and work with them on text for their sponsor page, including images
ralphm
dwd: are you taking this on?
dwd
Can do. Do we have vaguely official invoice type stuff, and I'll sort the lot?
stpeter
dwd: I can send you samples of what I've generated in the past
ralphm
awesome
dwd
ALso, FTR, I've confirmed with Isode that they can pay the money direct to Ralph in €.
stpeter
I'll just send them to the board@ list for general perusal
dwd
stpeter, Sounds good.
xnyhpshas joined
stpeter
often I have found that we need to write the sponsor page text
stpeter
in fact that might be better so it is more descriptive than laudatory
ralphm
Simon: are you and Laura also taking on those pages?
stpeter
speaking of sponsors, I think it would be appropriate at this point to remove Google from the list of sponsors (their last donation was a long long time ago)
dwd
stpeter, We remove the sponsor once we finish spending their money, right?
ralphm
stpeter: have we solicited Google for another donation?
stpeter
ralphm: I have not
waqashas left
ralphm
even though they are moving away from XMPP in their Hangouts stuff, it seems to still be a thing in other areas
stpeter
right
ralphm
(devices, GCM)
fippo
if I'd get paid for any bug i reported while mapping the webrtc sdp to jingle and vice versa... :-)
dwd
It would be good - they've cost us enough by their comments to the media, it would at least go some way to repairing that damage.
stpeteradds pinging Chris DiBona to his todo list
ralphm
dwd: heh
ralphm
ok
ralphm
anything else on sponsors?
dwd
ralphm, I'm actually quite serious. If we could point out to people that they're a current sponsor, it would be helpful.
ralphm
dwd: I assumed you were serious
intosihas left
ralphm
and I agree with it, too
ralphm
left hand / right hand and all that
dwd
ralphm, I think I'm good. Does the Board which to formally approve sponsors, by the way?
dwd
s/which/wish/
SouLhas left
dwd
Because if so, I'd have thought it's something we should to in camera. (ie, not in public).
intosi@ik.nuhas joined
stpeter
hmm, interesting, I just discovered that vtc.amazon.com is an XMPP service
ralphm
I don't feel we have to approve sponsors, really.
stpeternods to ralphm
Kev
I actually feel like Board should.
Kev
As it can be seen as an advertising deal on the XSF site.
stpeter
well, unless the sponsors would reflect badly on the XSF :-)
ralphm
If a sponsor should appear that we don't want money from, we can discuss it when that happens
Kev
I'm happy for the approval to be implicit :)
dwd
ralphm, I would rather that we put the policy in place while we're not doing anything contraversial.
Kev
It doesn't seem harmful or onerous to approve sponsors, to me.
ralphm
I trust the officer in charge of sponsors (hi dwd) can act on behalf of the board on this
dwd
I'm not an officer.
dwd
(that has a specific meaning)
dwd
Kev, FWIW, I agree.
ralphm
I meant Director
ralphm
But sure, let's do this oob
ralphm
Moving on then
ralphm
3. AOB
stpeter
in the past I have given the Board a heads-up about incoming sponsors, but I done so on the board@ list
ralphm
stpeter?
dwd
Right. I'll post details to the Secret List
stpeter
yes
Kev
I have a small request here.
Kev
I'd quite like the vote to happen in normal Board meetings.
Kev
I realise the details remain OOB.
ralphm
Kev: yes, for next meeting
dwd
Kev, You want a named sponsor to be declined publicly?
ralphm
so we first discuss and then formalize it in the regular meeting
Kev
dwd: No, I explicitly said not that.
ralphm
Kev: what if the vote is not unanimous?
dwd
Kev, I'm not understanding what you mean, then.
Kev
I'd just like the vote to happen as a normal Board vote, which means here. I'm happy for it to be as simple as "The sponorship deal discussed on list - who's in favour?".
Kev
That is - I'd like to default to being public, and elide the bits that can't be shared, rather than moving it entirely OOB.
ralphm
I'm sorry, but if it is a public vote, it shall also be a named item.
dwd
Kev, Unless two happen to be in progress at the same time, I think political realities would indicate that meant the sponsor would in effect be named if they were accepted, and if the vote were a 3-2, that'd be uncomfortable.
dwd
Kev, FWIW, I think it'd put some sponsors off "applying".
Lancehas left
stpeter
in practice I doubt that we'd ever turn down a sponsor unless it was some shady company, and that's unlikely
stpeter
so making it as public as possible seems fine to me
ralphm
I would not really feel comfortable in publicly announcing a non-unanimous sponsor decision, whatever the outcome.
stpeter
may I raise my "AOB" item now?
dwd
ralphm, I agree.
Simon
stpeter - I've been waiting all evening.
ralphm
stpeter: yes. Kev's point will be considered
ralphm
3. AOB.
stpeter
I have asked Thijs Alkemade if he would be able and willing to present about our work on hardening the XMPP network at the W3C/IAB workshop to be held on Feb 28 / March 1 (see https://www.w3.org/2014/strint/ for details) - he is agreeable and I think it would be appropriate for the XSF to pay for his expenses to participate in the workshop. I'll also note that the meeting is coming up quickly and Thijs would need to plan travel and hotel.
emchohas left
Kev
[Last thing for my point - if we can't have anything done in public, I'd at least like the result to be publicly minuted. So either X was accepted as a sponsor, on An Unnamed Sponsor offer was rejected. To be added to consideration]
stpeter
my proposal to present at the workshop - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saintandre-strint-workshop-xmpp/ - has been accepted, but I think it would be great for Thijs to present about it
ralphm
Kev: noted
ralphm
stpeter: I think this is a great idea.
Simon
stpeter: +1 sounds great.
emchohas joined
Kev
Is Thijs a member? Seems slightly odd for the XSF to pay for someone unaffiliated to represent them (not that this makes it a bad idea)
SouLhas left
stpeter
good experience and recognition for Thijs among other things
xnyhps
Kev: I am not.
ralphm
xnyhps: WHAY!
stpeter
I don't see why it makes any difference whether Thijs is a member
SouLhas left
ralphm
stpeter: agreed
dwd
stpeter, Yes, I agree, but I think we should make a Thing out of this - get a little wider publicity.
stpeter
we have plenty of members who do nothing, and Thijs has done a lot
Kev
I said 'slightly odd' and explicitly noted that this didn't make it a bad idea.
stpeter
Kev: yep
Kev
We have more than that, we have plenty of members that we might not want to represent the XSF :)
stpeter
Kev: the only slightly odd thing is that it would be great if Thijs were an XSF member
can the Board agree in principle so that Thijs can start making plans, get registered for the workshop, etc.?
ralphm
stpeter, xnyhps: can you send us an estimate?
Simon
full agreement here.
stpeter
I'll also need to inform the workshop organizers that Thijs would be presenting
ralphm
I'm +1 in principle
dwd
I'd be inclined to say just book it.
stpeter
it's London, isn't that the most expensive city in the world?
dwd
xnyhps, Where are you flying in from?
xnyhps
Netherlands, so I'm not sure I'll be actually flying.
dwd
xnyhps, Whereabouts? intosi@ik.nu might be able to suggest sensible routes into London; he travels enough.
Kev
Are we expecting there to be general XMPP discussion in strint beyond this presentation being made?
xnyhps
Utrecht.
dwd
Kev, I think STRINT is mostly about general "post-Snowden" security; I wouldn't expect a lot of XMPP discussion.
stpeter
right
stpeter
this is a general workshop
intosihas joined
Kev
I hadn't previously expected it.
stpeter
people talking about security from many angles
Kev
But, given the presentation... seemed worth asking.
dwd
Kev, I'd hope that Thijs and Peter can get some XMPP discussion going, though.
stpeter
it is a good opportunity to show that the XMPP community is in the forefront
dwd
stpeter, Right.
Paulohas joined
dwd
stpeter, Be sure to mention the lavish dinners we have, too.
ralphm
It has been decided, I believe.
ralphm
Any other any other business?
stpeter
I need to apologize for not getting busy with the Editorial Team -- I'll set up a meeting about that next week
dwd
I'd suggest Thijs (and stpeter) try to get into "the conference hotel", whichever that is. The benefits of the corridor meetings that result that way are huge.
Simon
Do we need to discuss any of the Summit work?
ralphm
stpeter: you're excused, naturally
dwd
stpeter, There were additional volunteers guilted into it at the Summit, IIRC.
Kev
Every non-Council/Board member present, by my count.
ralphm
dwd: there's no "conference hotel" apparently
dwd
ralphm, Probably the IETF one, then.
stpeter
Kev: :-)
ralphm
Simon: I think we should digest the notes by Bear and discuss next week, if needed.
ralphm
I'm toast.
Simon
ralphm: +1
ralphm
4. Date of Next
ralphm
+1W
ralphm
5. Close
ralphm
Thanks all!
ralphmbangs gavel
dwd
Thanks, ralphm
Kev
I think the intention is for there to be a London Meetup sometime around the end of the month.
ralphm
Simon: can you create minutes?
Simon
ralphm: sure
ralphm
awesome
Tobias
Kev, the usual XMPP UK Meetup or something else?
Zash
London Meetup!
ralphm
Simon: please send them to the members list
Simonnods
Kev
Tobias: The usual, but possibly proximity will have an effect.
ralphm
I still have London reserved in my agenda, but haven't decided on coming yet
Kev
I'm intending to make it over if interesting things are happening.
Zash
When, exactly, was this supposed to take place?
Kev
Unknown.
ralphm
IETF 89 is 2-7 march
stpeter
Zash: that would be Saturday March 1 o rSUnday MArch 2 I suppose -- it
ralphm
stpeter: get a new keyboard
stpeter
it's easier for me to reserve a free meeting room on Saturday or Sunday
stpeter
since that's before the IETF meeting really gets going
ralphm
When everybody is still fresh
stpeter
that too :-)
ralphmwanders off
stpeter
ok
Tobias
yeah..conference climate kills brain cells
Kev
Tobias: You weren't there when my brain stopped on Thursday :)
Neustradamushas joined
waqashas joined
Paulohas left
winfriedhas left
SouLhas left
SouLhas joined
stpeter
BTW another possibility for an XMPP meetup in London is Tuesday, March 4 -- that's the day of the XMPP WG session and perhaps we could figure out a way to pay for XSF members to attend on a day pass
stpeter
bbiaf
emchohas left
stpeter
OK I need to shut down this machine, bbl
stpeterhas left
ralphm
I thought that hildjj said there wasn't going to be an XMPP WG session. Did I misinterpret that?
fippo
there is, updated the wiki page
ralphm
fippo: awesome, thanks
fippo
stpeter did the work
ralphm
thanks, stpeter
Simonhas left
ralphm
There. Key signing done, too
intosi
\o/
Tobiashas joined
emchohas joined
Tobiashas joined
SouLhas left
SouLhas joined
emchohas left
emchohas joined
bearhas joined
Tobiashas left
dwd
Heh. Yes, stpeter. An early start at the pub is certainly of interest to many in the XMPP community. :-)
Zash
o/
bearcatches up on the meeting logs
Tobiashas joined
ralphm
dwd: +1
ralphm
bear: snow much?
dwd
ralphm, To what? Paying for folk, or going to the pub early?
dwd
ralphm, Or both. Both is good too.
ralphm
dwd: yes
bear
snow then ice and now rain. more snow and ice later tonight
bear
it's a miserable day outside :/
ralphm
bear: at least you're back online
bear
true
Lancehas left
Neustradamus_has joined
Ashhas joined
Ge0rG
bear: would you mind adding http://community.igniterealtime.org/docs/DOC-2678 to the GSoC list on the xmpp wiki?
bear
sure can
Neustradamus
thanks guys about jabber.org return!
waqas
Does the jabber.org team still make announcements about issues on twitter and the notice page?
emchohas left
emchohas joined
bear
Ge0rG - done
Kev
waqas: Not reliably.
Ge0rG
bear: +1 for you
Neustradamus
have you planned to do a post about SUMMIT and FOSDEM on the website?
we have a few posts that are pending about the summit - I know for myself that I have been spending the last couple of days recovering from the trip and dealing with work issues
Ge0rGwill make an extensive blog post about the summit as soon as lance comes up with an update to PUSH
dwd
bear, Where did you put that Summit notes page again?
bear
dwd http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_15_Minutes
Neustradamus
on xmpp.org, maybe bear or other, I was not at Fosdem... :/
Ge0rG
unfortunately, great discussion and feedback was not the only thing I got from Brussels. It looks like some evil virus invaded my body, reducing my blogging capacity to 10%
bear
like Ge0rG - it seems that something evil has invaded my brain and i'm not 100% at all
dwd
Ge0rG, Sorry to hear that. I hope it wasn't the same symptoms as Lloyd and I.