dwd"During a security review, we found that LibraryThing suffered a data breach in November 2011."
ralphmBoard Meeting in 6 min.
ralphmHowever, dwd is likely to be slightly late
ralphmNo sign of Laura or Bear so far.
stpeterI know for a fact that Bear's internet is down (ice storm in Philadelphia)
ralphmWhat, no redundancy?
stpeterice storms can wreak havoc
ralphmWe have no quorum yet
ralphmSo I'll wait for dwd to come back at least
Simonboard meetings are a nice distraction from zone file and secondary DNS propagation debugging.
dwdBack, just give me a minute to get settled.
dwdJust walked in through the door.
ralphmdwd: no worries
intosi[non-XSF] stpeter: any idea when Jerry will be able to kick hermes2?
stpeterintosi, no but I'll ping him
ralphmBear is excused for his absense by Act of God.
ralphmSimon, dwd: any other items?
SimonSummit recap is all i have on my list for today.
LloydLaura sends apologies, interview running long, will be along ASAP
dwdWe probably need to get on with Boring Things.
SimonI expect next week we'll have more non summit things to talk about.
ralphmLloyd: is that worth waiting on?
dwdWe've a potential sponsor, we should sort out the membership applications.
ralphmI seem to only have Alex on jabber.org, which is down at the moment.
ralphm1. XMPP Summit 15 / FOSDEM recap
Lloydraplhm, trying to find out, if you have enough people I'd say carry on.
ralphmFirst off, that was a blast.
dwdI agree. I thought it went amazingly well.
ralphmThe Summit was very productive, and we have had a good audience and presence at FOSDEM with the Realtime Lounge.
ralphmI'm still collecting some pictures on the Google Plus event page, and will likely make a nice little video from them
dwdYes, and we drew some new faces and had fun.
ralphmSo I'd like to thank everyone involved, again!
ralphmThen onto the less entertaining bits: finances
stpeteryes, thanks to everyone!
dwdGiven you led the FOSDEM side, I'll join you in thanking yourself.
SimonFOSDEM was good. And fun. Things that would have helped… a) nobody knew where the realtime lounge was - (we could have some events there or something to get it onto a program for next year). b) there was no signage.
dwdSimon, Sure. It might be worth making a note of the things we think would have made it better now, actually.
ralphmWe did bring some gear to make signs, but simply didn't get around to work on them
Simon(annecdote: overheard someone asking for "the difinitive XMPP guide at the oreilly stand - said hello and that he should come and talk to the author at the realtime longe. His response - I've never heard of that"
dwdI mean, not in this meeting, but in this time period.
ralphmFor next year, I'll make it explicit with the FOSDEM people to put us in all materials as such at least.
dwdWe tend to try and think of what to do in the third or fourth week of January, rather than properly doing a post-mortem when it's fresh.
SimonSummit was also good. I feel very happy about the progress made to address posts like Ge0rG's
KevI'd suggest the best way to make sure you notice as the time comes is to start the 2015 wiki page now.
ralphmWe've earned additional credits for cleaning up after another project that shall remain nameless here.
KevUnless you have more faith your ability to remember stuff than I have in mine :)
dwdSimon, Yes, that too. I always fear that a Summit can easily denegerate into rather vague discussions, but Kev kept us very much on track.
ralphmKev: well, we did have a checklist from last year, and largely worked from it, we can just amend it
dwdAlso, pheer my accounting skillz. But don't show a real acocuntant, as they'll note that it's not double-entry - really, the XSF should have a general ledger column.
dwdIt has comments, but the key is that on the bottom 3 rightmost cells, is the overall figure.
dwdWhich is a loss.
stpeterdwd: thanks for the spreadsheet!
Kevdwd: That's a loss for the whole of the summit+FOSDEM, but that was expected, I think? As in - no money was raised for the beanbags et al.
ralphmexcept for one bag now
dwdKev, Right - in fact &Yet have paid for the Realtime Beanbag.
KevWhich isn't on the spreadsheet?
dwdKev, But the XSF Dinner sponsorship basically paid for all the food at the Summit as well as the dinner and transport.
ralphmKev: in the notes
ralphm(in the &yet column)
dwdKev, It is, it's considered part of their offer. Comments reveal the breakdown.
stpeterBTW, we've never really had "expense reports" since I've always been shelling out the money, but I think we can work that out with proper receipts and such
dwdThe position is essentially that the XSF curently owes Ralph and I, and a few sponsors need an invoice.
KevI find this spreadsheet quite informative, so thanks for sharing.
ralphmstpeter: I have receipts for all items. Who do I send them to?
dwdOne informative thing is that - rather stupidly, actually - I ended up with the cash. Since it's Euros, it'd have been much more sensible to have Ralph take that. :-)
stpeterralphm: I think you would scan them in and send them to the board@ list (which is what I've always done)
ralphmdwd: eh, yeah
fippodwd: I wondered why you wanted cash... ;-)
ralphmdwd: I didn't actually think that through
dwdstpeter, Similarly I've the Dinner receipt, though not any receipt for the tip.
dwdralphm, No, nor did I.
stpeterdwd: in the past, I have taken the cash (if any) and changed it upon return to the States, then put it back in our bank account
dwdralphm, Now, if only we had a Treasurer, we could get paid.
ralphmdwd: I was assuming that's you really
stpeterright, we do lack a real Treasurer
stpeterand have for years
Tobiasthe last one was jack, no?
stpeterbut that's out of scope for today's meeting, I think :-)
ralphmstpeter: let's put it on next weeks agenda
stpetereven Jack was never established properly as the Treasuruer with bank access and such
ralphmstpeter: so I'll guess that's just you now, right?
dwdAnyway, would the Board like to approve that spreadsheet at this point?
ralphmI looks good to me
Simonhappy to approve.
ralphmdwd: are any mutations expected?
dwdI don't know of any pending changes.
ralphmI assume you haven't actually gotten all donations yet
dwdI don't know if Bear's finished his changes, but I think so.
ralphmI wonder if it would be more cost-effective to have not route some of that through the US
dwdralphm, No, the XSF needs to invoice the remaining amounts.
ralphme.g. having a in-EU transfer to me from isode
dwdYeah... I can discuss that with Isode if you like.
ralphmknowing that US money transfers are crazy expensive
ralphmI don't want to sponsor the banks if not needed
stpetercouldn't we use the obscure and never-documented Instant Money (IM) extensions to XMPP?
dwdstpeter, They turn out to be troublesome to oeprate. Many start-ups have tried.
dwdWe have at least one interested sponsor, possibly two. One is ready for some formal instructions on how to proceed.
stpeterthat reminds me, I need to read Laura's draft of a post about ISOC
ralphmstpeter: how does this usually work?
stpeterdwd: what I've done is invoice the sponsor and work with them on text for their sponsor page, including images
ralphmdwd: are you taking this on?
dwdCan do. Do we have vaguely official invoice type stuff, and I'll sort the lot?
stpeterdwd: I can send you samples of what I've generated in the past
dwdALso, FTR, I've confirmed with Isode that they can pay the money direct to Ralph in €.
stpeterI'll just send them to the board@ list for general perusal
dwdstpeter, Sounds good.
stpeteroften I have found that we need to write the sponsor page text
stpeterin fact that might be better so it is more descriptive than laudatory
ralphmSimon: are you and Laura also taking on those pages?
stpeterspeaking of sponsors, I think it would be appropriate at this point to remove Google from the list of sponsors (their last donation was a long long time ago)
dwdstpeter, We remove the sponsor once we finish spending their money, right?
ralphmstpeter: have we solicited Google for another donation?
stpeterralphm: I have not
ralphmeven though they are moving away from XMPP in their Hangouts stuff, it seems to still be a thing in other areas
fippoif I'd get paid for any bug i reported while mapping the webrtc sdp to jingle and vice versa... :-)
dwdIt would be good - they've cost us enough by their comments to the media, it would at least go some way to repairing that damage.
stpeteradds pinging Chris DiBona to his todo list
ralphmanything else on sponsors?
dwdralphm, I'm actually quite serious. If we could point out to people that they're a current sponsor, it would be helpful.
ralphmdwd: I assumed you were serious
ralphmand I agree with it, too
ralphmleft hand / right hand and all that
dwdralphm, I think I'm good. Does the Board which to formally approve sponsors, by the way?
dwdBecause if so, I'd have thought it's something we should to in camera. (ie, not in public).
stpeterhmm, interesting, I just discovered that vtc.amazon.com is an XMPP service
ralphmI don't feel we have to approve sponsors, really.
stpeternods to ralphm
KevI actually feel like Board should.
KevAs it can be seen as an advertising deal on the XSF site.
stpeterwell, unless the sponsors would reflect badly on the XSF :-)
ralphmIf a sponsor should appear that we don't want money from, we can discuss it when that happens
KevI'm happy for the approval to be implicit :)
dwdralphm, I would rather that we put the policy in place while we're not doing anything contraversial.
KevIt doesn't seem harmful or onerous to approve sponsors, to me.
ralphmI trust the officer in charge of sponsors (hi dwd) can act on behalf of the board on this
dwdI'm not an officer.
dwd(that has a specific meaning)
dwdKev, FWIW, I agree.
ralphmI meant Director
ralphmBut sure, let's do this oob
ralphmMoving on then
stpeterin the past I have given the Board a heads-up about incoming sponsors, but I done so on the board@ list
dwdRight. I'll post details to the Secret List
KevI have a small request here.
KevI'd quite like the vote to happen in normal Board meetings.
KevI realise the details remain OOB.
ralphmKev: yes, for next meeting
dwdKev, You want a named sponsor to be declined publicly?
ralphmso we first discuss and then formalize it in the regular meeting
Kevdwd: No, I explicitly said not that.
ralphmKev: what if the vote is not unanimous?
dwdKev, I'm not understanding what you mean, then.
KevI'd just like the vote to happen as a normal Board vote, which means here. I'm happy for it to be as simple as "The sponorship deal discussed on list - who's in favour?".
KevThat is - I'd like to default to being public, and elide the bits that can't be shared, rather than moving it entirely OOB.
ralphmI'm sorry, but if it is a public vote, it shall also be a named item.
dwdKev, Unless two happen to be in progress at the same time, I think political realities would indicate that meant the sponsor would in effect be named if they were accepted, and if the vote were a 3-2, that'd be uncomfortable.
dwdKev, FWIW, I think it'd put some sponsors off "applying".
stpeterin practice I doubt that we'd ever turn down a sponsor unless it was some shady company, and that's unlikely
stpeterso making it as public as possible seems fine to me
ralphmI would not really feel comfortable in publicly announcing a non-unanimous sponsor decision, whatever the outcome.
stpetermay I raise my "AOB" item now?
dwdralphm, I agree.
Simonstpeter - I've been waiting all evening.
ralphmstpeter: yes. Kev's point will be considered
stpeterI have asked Thijs Alkemade if he would be able and willing to present about our work on hardening the XMPP network at the W3C/IAB workshop to be held on Feb 28 / March 1 (see https://www.w3.org/2014/strint/ for details) - he is agreeable and I think it would be appropriate for the XSF to pay for his expenses to participate in the workshop. I'll also note that the meeting is coming up quickly and Thijs would need to plan travel and hotel.
Kev[Last thing for my point - if we can't have anything done in public, I'd at least like the result to be publicly minuted. So either X was accepted as a sponsor, on An Unnamed Sponsor offer was rejected. To be added to consideration]
stpetermy proposal to present at the workshop - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saintandre-strint-workshop-xmpp/ - has been accepted, but I think it would be great for Thijs to present about it
ralphmstpeter: I think this is a great idea.
Simonstpeter: +1 sounds great.
KevIs Thijs a member? Seems slightly odd for the XSF to pay for someone unaffiliated to represent them (not that this makes it a bad idea)
stpetergood experience and recognition for Thijs among other things
xnyhpsKev: I am not.
stpeterI don't see why it makes any difference whether Thijs is a member
dwdstpeter, Yes, I agree, but I think we should make a Thing out of this - get a little wider publicity.
stpeterwe have plenty of members who do nothing, and Thijs has done a lot
KevI said 'slightly odd' and explicitly noted that this didn't make it a bad idea.
KevWe have more than that, we have plenty of members that we might not want to represent the XSF :)
stpeterKev: the only slightly odd thing is that it would be great if Thijs were an XSF member
stpetercan the Board agree in principle so that Thijs can start making plans, get registered for the workshop, etc.?
ralphmstpeter, xnyhps: can you send us an estimate?
Simonfull agreement here.
stpeterI'll also need to inform the workshop organizers that Thijs would be presenting
ralphmI'm +1 in principle
dwdI'd be inclined to say just book it.
stpeterit's London, isn't that the most expensive city in the world?
dwdxnyhps, Where are you flying in from?
xnyhpsNetherlands, so I'm not sure I'll be actually flying.
dwdxnyhps, Whereabouts? firstname.lastname@example.org might be able to suggest sensible routes into London; he travels enough.
KevAre we expecting there to be general XMPP discussion in strint beyond this presentation being made?
dwdKev, I think STRINT is mostly about general "post-Snowden" security; I wouldn't expect a lot of XMPP discussion.
stpeterthis is a general workshop
KevI hadn't previously expected it.
stpeterpeople talking about security from many angles
KevBut, given the presentation... seemed worth asking.
dwdKev, I'd hope that Thijs and Peter can get some XMPP discussion going, though.
stpeterit is a good opportunity to show that the XMPP community is in the forefront
dwdstpeter, Be sure to mention the lavish dinners we have, too.
ralphmIt has been decided, I believe.
ralphmAny other any other business?
stpeterI need to apologize for not getting busy with the Editorial Team -- I'll set up a meeting about that next week
dwdI'd suggest Thijs (and stpeter) try to get into "the conference hotel", whichever that is. The benefits of the corridor meetings that result that way are huge.
SimonDo we need to discuss any of the Summit work?
ralphmstpeter: you're excused, naturally
dwdstpeter, There were additional volunteers guilted into it at the Summit, IIRC.
KevEvery non-Council/Board member present, by my count.
ralphmdwd: there's no "conference hotel" apparently
dwdralphm, Probably the IETF one, then.
ralphmSimon: I think we should digest the notes by Bear and discuss next week, if needed.
ralphm4. Date of Next
KevI think the intention is for there to be a London Meetup sometime around the end of the month.
ralphmSimon: can you create minutes?
TobiasKev, the usual XMPP UK Meetup or something else?
ralphmSimon: please send them to the members list
KevTobias: The usual, but possibly proximity will have an effect.
ralphmI still have London reserved in my agenda, but haven't decided on coming yet
KevI'm intending to make it over if interesting things are happening.
ZashWhen, exactly, was this supposed to take place?
ralphmIETF 89 is 2-7 march
stpeterZash: that would be Saturday March 1 o rSUnday MArch 2 I suppose -- it
ralphmstpeter: get a new keyboard
stpeterit's easier for me to reserve a free meeting room on Saturday or Sunday
stpetersince that's before the IETF meeting really gets going
ralphmWhen everybody is still fresh
stpeterthat too :-)
Tobiasyeah..conference climate kills brain cells
KevTobias: You weren't there when my brain stopped on Thursday :)
stpeterBTW another possibility for an XMPP meetup in London is Tuesday, March 4 -- that's the day of the XMPP WG session and perhaps we could figure out a way to pay for XSF members to attend on a day pass
stpeterOK I need to shut down this machine, bbl
ralphmI thought that hildjj said there wasn't going to be an XMPP WG session. Did I misinterpret that?
fippothere is, updated the wiki page
ralphmfippo: awesome, thanks
fippostpeter did the work
ralphmThere. Key signing done, too
dwdHeh. Yes, stpeter. An early start at the pub is certainly of interest to many in the XMPP community. :-)
bearcatches up on the meeting logs
ralphmbear: snow much?
dwdralphm, To what? Paying for folk, or going to the pub early?
dwdralphm, Or both. Both is good too.
bearsnow then ice and now rain. more snow and ice later tonight
bearit's a miserable day outside :/
ralphmbear: at least you're back online
Ge0rGbear: would you mind adding http://community.igniterealtime.org/docs/DOC-2678 to the GSoC list on the xmpp wiki?
Neustradamusthanks guys about jabber.org return!
waqasDoes the jabber.org team still make announcements about issues on twitter and the notice page?
bearGe0rG - done
Kevwaqas: Not reliably.
Ge0rGbear: +1 for you
Neustradamushave you planned to do a post about SUMMIT and FOSDEM on the website?
waqasGe0rG: Is that aSmack getting merged into Smack?