XSF Discussion - 2014-02-07

  1. Zash has joined

  2. Jef has left

  3. bear has left

  4. waqas has left

  5. Zash has left

  6. Jef has joined

  7. Jef has left

  8. emcho has left

  9. emcho has joined

  10. Tobias has joined

  11. stpeter has left

  12. waqas has joined

  13. Alex has joined

  14. waqas has left

  15. emcho has left

  16. emcho has joined

  17. intosi has left

  18. emcho has left

  19. SouL has joined

  20. Tobias has joined

  21. Jef has joined

  22. Lloyd has joined

  23. emcho has joined

  24. emcho has left

  25. emcho has joined

  26. Tobias has joined

  27. dwd has joined

  28. SouL has left

  29. Ash has joined

  30. SouL has joined

  31. ralphm has left

  32. Steffen Larsen has joined

  33. Jef has left

  34. dwd has joined

  35. Steffen Larsen has joined

  36. Alex has left

  37. Alex has joined

  38. Steffen Larsen has left

  39. Steffen Larsen has joined

  40. Steffen Larsen has left

  41. Steffen Larsen has joined

  42. Steffen Larsen has left

  43. Steffen Larsen has joined

  44. Steffen Larsen has joined

  45. Steffen Larsen has left

  46. Steffen Larsen has joined

  47. Steffen Larsen has left

  48. Steffen Larsen has joined

  49. Steffen Larsen has left

  50. Steffen Larsen has joined

  51. Steffen Larsen has left

  52. Kev has left

  53. bear has joined

  54. emcho has left

  55. emcho has joined

  56. simon has left

  57. emcho has left

  58. simon has joined

  59. Steffen Larsen has joined

  60. Steffen Larsen has left

  61. Steffen Larsen has joined

  62. Steffen Larsen has left

  63. Steffen Larsen has joined

  64. Jef has joined

  65. simon

    Does the XSF have an official twitter account?

  66. Kev

    I believe that the answer is No, but I couldn't swear to it.

  67. simon

    @xmpp looks rather dead

  68. simon

    might nudge him and ask if we could use it.

  69. Steffen Larsen

    can we ask if we can have it from the given person?

  70. Steffen Larsen

    is @xsf taken?

  71. bear

    yes, Donnet Yatsko has it

  72. bear

    with all of zero tweets

  73. Steffen Larsen


  74. simon

    Should I know who he is?

  75. bear


  76. Tobias has joined

  77. bear

    we could send twitter a letter asking them to take over the xsf account because it's our brand

  78. Steffen Larsen has left

  79. ralphm


  80. simon

    Nice friendly note sent.

  81. simon

    Will follow up if/when I hear anything back.

  82. bear


  83. Lloyd

    Who runs the facebook xmpp page?

  84. ralphm

    Lloyd: I'm pretty sure that's Neustradamus

  85. ralphm

    there's also one for the foundation

  86. Alex

    I thnk thats the most active on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jabber

  87. Zash has joined

  88. Steffen Larsen has joined

  89. emcho has joined

  90. Steffen Larsen has left

  91. dwd

    xnyhps, So your own tests don't use a valid certificate? Have to score you an F, then. :-P

  92. xnyhps

    It doesn't even listen on a socket for incoming connections, it's completely fake. :P

  93. Jef has left

  94. simon

    xnyhps - do you plan on testing that sites reject invalid certs.

  95. tato has joined

  96. Zash

    That would be one interesting data point.

  97. simon

    Zash: My thinking too. Basically check whether servers blindly trust peers.

  98. Zash

    Well, most servers will fall back to dialback, but there are some who reject

  99. simon

    Zash: good point.

  100. Steffen Larsen has joined

  101. Zash

    I have a bot running on a server with a self-signed cert, which is useful partly for that reason.

  102. simon

    I personally run with s2s_secure_auth = true (on prosody) so that I don't have to trust DNS too much.

  103. Steffen Larsen has left

  104. Bunneh has joined

  105. dwd

    simon, Trouble is, I think the different combinations of security options yield some surprising results. Accepting dialback with self-signed certs is probably (I think) fine in combination with DNSSEC.

  106. Zash

    Bunneh, ping acc.umu.se

  107. Bunneh

    Zash: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found): Server-to-server connection failed: not-authorized (Your server's certificate is invalid, expired, or not trusted by acc.umu.se)

  108. Zash

    Like that :)

  109. dwd

    simon, I think that "classic" TLS auth is better than DNSSEC+dialback+unauth-TLS. But it's not by much.

  110. simon

    dwd: does one need to use a CA for DANE to work?

  111. simon

    my thinking was that DANE + a signed TLD, invalidated the need to use CAs - a good thing imho

  112. Zash

    DNSSEC removes some attack vectors from dialback. Attacks on IP routing could still work, but that ought to be harder.

  113. Zash

    simon: There are a few variants in DANE. You can say something like 'only this CA is allowed here and you must trust it already'

  114. Zash

    or you can point to your own CA and specify that as a root, or point to the actual cert or public key used by the server

  115. simon likes giving the middle finger to CAs.

  116. Zash

    If you use the non-PKI variants of DANE, you'll still have your TLD as CA :)

  117. tato has left

  118. ralphm likes his middlefingers. Keeping them.

  119. simon

    Would be really nice if someone could write up a basic guide for the wiki. I'd really like to get this deployed on some of my own domains.

  120. simon

    (with or without middle-finger-donations)

  121. waqas has joined

  122. SouL has left

  123. waqas has left

  124. stpeter has joined

  125. ralphm

    Chromebox for Meetings. Wonder how much XMPP is in there.

  126. ralphm


  127. fippo

    ralphm: the thing formerly known as libjingle is inside ;-)

  128. ralphm

    well, yeah, of course

  129. waqas has joined

  130. SouL has left

  131. SouL has joined

  132. waqas has left

  133. Ge0rG

    dwd: NebuK is asking about your MUC merge progress. come back to yaxim@chat.yax.im please :)

  134. Jef has joined

  135. simon

    Yaxim + muc would be nice.

  136. Ge0rG

    simon: indeed. there is some old code for that, but it needs to be polished and brought forward into current master.

  137. Ge0rG

    simon: Dave did some progress with that, but forgot to tell us where to find his code ;)

  138. dwd

    Ge0rG, Actual work is a bit busy, sorry. But I've merged to about June, so far.

  139. Ge0rG

    dwd: thats ok, but please coordinate more with NebuK on the yaxim MUC.

  140. Ge0rG

    dwd: he is starting to merge stuff as well... :)

  141. Ge0rG is a bit busy with staying away from work... and from the laptop. so must delegate this

  142. waqas has joined

  143. simon has left

  144. NebuK has joined

  145. NebuK

    hi there

  146. NebuK

    dwd, and here is the MUC guy ;) i'm currently trying to merge my own horrible code into current master -- how is you progress with that? (even though offtopic -- and/or do you want to come over to yaxims MUC?)

  147. dwd

    NebuK, I've merged to about June or so. WOrking through slowly. I'll get there, but I'm busy with work etc right now.

  148. NebuK

    oh, ok

  149. NebuK

    so ... what exactly are you merging? simply muc into master, or anything else? also, do you have your current state in a git somewhere, so i can start off from there?

  150. Jef has left

  151. dwd

    NebuK, No, it's halfway through a massive rebase. :-) Not something I can push anywhere.

  152. NebuK


  153. NebuK

    what are you doing, if i might ask?

  154. fsteinel has joined

  155. Lloyd has left

  156. Ash has left

  157. waqas has left

  158. waqas has joined

  159. bear has left

  160. Ash has joined

  161. zooldk has joined

  162. Alex has left

  163. Alex has joined

  164. Alex_ has joined

  165. SouL has left

  166. SouL has joined

  167. bear has joined

  168. SouL has left

  169. fsteinel has left

  170. emcho has left

  171. emcho has joined

  172. lloyd.watkin has joined

  173. bear has left

  174. emcho has left

  175. Neustradamus has joined

  176. SouL has left

  177. SouL has joined

  178. lloyd.watkin has left

  179. Neustradamus

    I sent an email on the members ML because I have not email since November 2013.

  180. stpeter

    Neustradamus: you can send but not receive?

  181. Neustradamus


  182. Zash

    Nothing in a spam folder?

  183. Neustradamus

    like I have already said, jabber.org/xmpp.org are on blacklists

  184. Neustradamus

    there were discussions on iteam room, but the problem is not really resolved :/

  185. Zash

    What blacklists?

  186. stpeter

    Neustradamus: I am going to send you a test message from stpeter@jabber.org - please let me know if you receive it

  187. Neustradamus

    stpeter: I will inform you if I have

  188. lloyd.watkin has joined

  189. stpeter

    Neustradamus: you won't receive it

  190. Neustradamus


  191. stpeter

    mail.log says: Feb 7 20:21:32 atlas postfix/smtp[24019]: 3EE4E219EA8: to=<lbxmpp@live.com>, relay=mx2.hotmail.com[]:25, delay=0.49, delays=0.08/0/0.37/0.04, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host mx2.hotmail.com[] said: 421 RP-001 (SNT0-MC4-F52) Unfortunately, some messages from weren't sent. Please try again. We have limits for how many messages can be sent per hour and per day. You can also refer to http://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx#errors. (in reply to MAIL FROM command))

  192. Jef has joined

  193. Neustradamus

    intosi said me it is same for AOL and others companies

  194. stpeter

    well, for instance, the operators@xmpp.org list has 25 @hotmail.com addresses subscribed, and if we have a lot of traffic on the list then hotmail might consider that spammy

  195. fippo

    if only mail servers knew about their users subscriptions and could apply that to "karma" limits ;-)

  196. Neustradamus

    hotmail.* live.* outlook.* for ML (not only operators)

  197. Alex has left

  198. Alex_ has left

  199. Neustradamus

    stpeter: DKIM and SPF are easy no?

  200. Zash

    SPF is there already

  201. Zash

    DKIM is anything but easy

  202. stpeter

    the last time I tried to install DKIM I hosed my VPS

  203. Zash

    DKIM and mailing lists are not friends

  204. waqas

    A lot of the ML emails used to end up in spam, because of DKIM

  205. Neustradamus

    what will be the best solution for you?

  206. stpeter

    Neustradamus: use a different email service?

  207. Neustradamus

    But I am not alone

  208. stpeter

    Neustradamus: do you know what hotmail's policy is? how many email messages are too many?

  209. Kev

    No, but if your provider is blocking mail because it's from mailing lists, your choices are limited.

  210. Neustradamus

    stpeter: no :/

  211. Kev

    As I understand it, this isn't a blacklisting issues, it's just that your provider doesn't like receiving several mails at once, which is always going to happen with mailing list traffic.

  212. Neustradamus

    the server is really secure?

  213. Kev

    No server is really secure if it's attached to the internet.

  214. stpeter


  215. stpeter

    true day

  216. stpeter

    dat even

  217. Neustradamus


  218. stpeter

    Kev: that's my understanding, too -- they just don't like to receive a burst of messages or "too many messages" (not sure if that's in any particular time frame)

  219. Zash

    "Reason for rate limitation is related to IP/domain reputation."

  220. waqas has left

  221. waqas has joined

  222. Neustradamus

    There are not sender bot on the server?

  223. Bunneh has left

  224. waqas

    Mailing lists used to work fine on hotmail when I used to use it, but that was a long time ago

  225. intosi

    hotmail loves rate limitjng servers

  226. stpeter

    less for them to do :-)

  227. intosi

    phps mailgun can help out? ralphm?

  228. Neustradamus

    intosi: same for AOL?

  229. intosi


  230. Neustradamus

    but it is really strange, I had never problem before

  231. Zash has left

  232. Jef has left

  233. Zash has joined

  234. ralphm

    intosi: didn't you mention we've been blacklisted and that you have been fixing things recently?

  235. dwd

    .sdrawkcab tuo emoc segassem ym semitemoS

  236. dwd

    ?detaler eb siht dluoC

  237. Kev

    Mr. Cridland, please to try to behave.

  238. intosi

    i did

  239. Zash

    ‏.gnibrutsid kram LTR fo kcal ruoy dnif I :dwd

  240. intosi

    spent many hours on fuxing tjings

  241. intosi

    hacker kbd on a phone screen is.. less ideal

  242. dwd

    Zash, Back before the dawn of time, I used to be able to type backwards fairly fluently. I used to tell people on IRC that I'd changed some setting in my client, and please could they help me.

  243. Zash


  244. Kev

    /part and /quit are sitting on a wall. /part falls off. Who's left?

  245. Kev

    As the old one goes.

  246. dwd has left

  247. intosi


  248. dwd has joined

  249. dwd

    Hey, that was cruel.

  250. Kev

    Or, slightly more amusingly, Hey this is really cool - see what happens if you type `/disco lights/` in your client!

  251. Zash


  252. dwd

    Come to think of it, Gajim actually has /commands, for all I know it has /quit.

  253. Zash

    I think it even has /exce -o

  254. intosi

    now my home lugting is blinking

  255. Zash

    I think it even has /exec -o

  256. intosi


  257. Zash

    Pro-tip: Don't /exec -o yes

  258. Zash

    Unless you /exec -o yes otters!

  259. waqas


  260. Jef has joined

  261. lloyd.watkin has left

  262. Zash


  263. ralphm

    intosi: so I think that taint could last some time

  264. Zash

    They didn't forsee that in StarTrek ^^

  265. ralphm

    intosi: I'd be happy to see if we can help out, just not right now

  266. intosi

    we ll chat abput it l8r

  267. ralphm


  268. dwd

    Zash, Hello, my name is Computer End Program?

  269. Alex has joined

  270. Alex_ has joined

  271. Ash has left

  272. bear has joined

  273. SouL has left

  274. Tobias has joined

  275. Alex_ has left

  276. Alex has left

  277. SouL has left

  278. Zash has left

  279. Zash has joined

  280. NebuK has left