XSF Discussion - 2014-02-07

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  65. simon Does the XSF have an official twitter account?
  66. Kev I believe that the answer is No, but I couldn't swear to it.
  67. simon @xmpp looks rather dead
  68. simon might nudge him and ask if we could use it.
  69. Steffen Larsen can we ask if we can have it from the given person?
  70. Steffen Larsen is @xsf taken?
  71. bear yes, Donnet Yatsko has it
  72. bear with all of zero tweets
  73. Steffen Larsen :-)
  74. simon Should I know who he is?
  75. bear doubtful
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  77. bear we could send twitter a letter asking them to take over the xsf account because it's our brand
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  79. ralphm https://support.twitter.com/articles/15362-inactive-account-policy
  80. simon Nice friendly note sent.
  81. simon Will follow up if/when I hear anything back.
  82. bear k
  83. Lloyd Who runs the facebook xmpp page?
  84. ralphm Lloyd: I'm pretty sure that's Neustradamus
  85. ralphm there's also one for the foundation
  86. Alex I thnk thats the most active on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jabber
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  91. dwd xnyhps, So your own tests don't use a valid certificate? Have to score you an F, then. :-P
  92. xnyhps It doesn't even listen on a socket for incoming connections, it's completely fake. :P
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  94. simon xnyhps - do you plan on testing that sites reject invalid certs.
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  96. Zash That would be one interesting data point.
  97. simon Zash: My thinking too. Basically check whether servers blindly trust peers.
  98. Zash Well, most servers will fall back to dialback, but there are some who reject
  99. simon Zash: good point.
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  101. Zash I have a bot running on a server with a self-signed cert, which is useful partly for that reason.
  102. simon I personally run with s2s_secure_auth = true (on prosody) so that I don't have to trust DNS too much.
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  105. dwd simon, Trouble is, I think the different combinations of security options yield some surprising results. Accepting dialback with self-signed certs is probably (I think) fine in combination with DNSSEC.
  106. Zash Bunneh, ping acc.umu.se
  107. Bunneh Zash: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found): Server-to-server connection failed: not-authorized (Your server's certificate is invalid, expired, or not trusted by acc.umu.se)
  108. Zash Like that :)
  109. dwd simon, I think that "classic" TLS auth is better than DNSSEC+dialback+unauth-TLS. But it's not by much.
  110. simon dwd: does one need to use a CA for DANE to work?
  111. simon my thinking was that DANE + a signed TLD, invalidated the need to use CAs - a good thing imho
  112. Zash DNSSEC removes some attack vectors from dialback. Attacks on IP routing could still work, but that ought to be harder.
  113. Zash simon: There are a few variants in DANE. You can say something like 'only this CA is allowed here and you must trust it already'
  114. Zash or you can point to your own CA and specify that as a root, or point to the actual cert or public key used by the server
  115. simon likes giving the middle finger to CAs.
  116. Zash If you use the non-PKI variants of DANE, you'll still have your TLD as CA :)
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  118. ralphm likes his middlefingers. Keeping them.
  119. simon Would be really nice if someone could write up a basic guide for the wiki. I'd really like to get this deployed on some of my own domains.
  120. simon (with or without middle-finger-donations)
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  125. ralphm Chromebox for Meetings. Wonder how much XMPP is in there.
  126. ralphm (https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/business/solutions/for-meetings.html)
  127. fippo ralphm: the thing formerly known as libjingle is inside ;-)
  128. ralphm well, yeah, of course
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  133. Ge0rG dwd: NebuK is asking about your MUC merge progress. come back to yaxim@chat.yax.im please :)
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  135. simon Yaxim + muc would be nice.
  136. Ge0rG simon: indeed. there is some old code for that, but it needs to be polished and brought forward into current master.
  137. Ge0rG simon: Dave did some progress with that, but forgot to tell us where to find his code ;)
  138. dwd Ge0rG, Actual work is a bit busy, sorry. But I've merged to about June, so far.
  139. Ge0rG dwd: thats ok, but please coordinate more with NebuK on the yaxim MUC.
  140. Ge0rG dwd: he is starting to merge stuff as well... :)
  141. Ge0rG is a bit busy with staying away from work... and from the laptop. so must delegate this
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  145. NebuK hi there
  146. NebuK dwd, and here is the MUC guy ;) i'm currently trying to merge my own horrible code into current master -- how is you progress with that? (even though offtopic -- and/or do you want to come over to yaxims MUC?)
  147. dwd NebuK, I've merged to about June or so. WOrking through slowly. I'll get there, but I'm busy with work etc right now.
  148. NebuK oh, ok
  149. NebuK so ... what exactly are you merging? simply muc into master, or anything else? also, do you have your current state in a git somewhere, so i can start off from there?
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  151. dwd NebuK, No, it's halfway through a massive rebase. :-) Not something I can push anywhere.
  152. NebuK uh
  153. NebuK what are you doing, if i might ask?
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  179. Neustradamus I sent an email on the members ML because I have not email since November 2013.
  180. stpeter Neustradamus: you can send but not receive?
  181. Neustradamus yes
  182. Zash Nothing in a spam folder?
  183. Neustradamus like I have already said, jabber.org/xmpp.org are on blacklists
  184. Neustradamus there were discussions on iteam room, but the problem is not really resolved :/
  185. Zash What blacklists?
  186. stpeter Neustradamus: I am going to send you a test message from stpeter@jabber.org - please let me know if you receive it
  187. Neustradamus stpeter: I will inform you if I have
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  189. stpeter Neustradamus: you won't receive it
  190. Neustradamus no
  191. stpeter mail.log says: Feb 7 20:21:32 atlas postfix/smtp[24019]: 3EE4E219EA8: to=<lbxmpp@live.com>, relay=mx2.hotmail.com[]:25, delay=0.49, delays=0.08/0/0.37/0.04, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host mx2.hotmail.com[] said: 421 RP-001 (SNT0-MC4-F52) Unfortunately, some messages from weren't sent. Please try again. We have limits for how many messages can be sent per hour and per day. You can also refer to http://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx#errors. (in reply to MAIL FROM command))
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  193. Neustradamus intosi said me it is same for AOL and others companies
  194. stpeter well, for instance, the operators@xmpp.org list has 25 @hotmail.com addresses subscribed, and if we have a lot of traffic on the list then hotmail might consider that spammy
  195. fippo if only mail servers knew about their users subscriptions and could apply that to "karma" limits ;-)
  196. Neustradamus hotmail.* live.* outlook.* for ML (not only operators)
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  199. Neustradamus stpeter: DKIM and SPF are easy no?
  200. Zash SPF is there already
  201. Zash DKIM is anything but easy
  202. stpeter the last time I tried to install DKIM I hosed my VPS
  203. Zash DKIM and mailing lists are not friends
  204. waqas A lot of the ML emails used to end up in spam, because of DKIM
  205. Neustradamus what will be the best solution for you?
  206. stpeter Neustradamus: use a different email service?
  207. Neustradamus But I am not alone
  208. stpeter Neustradamus: do you know what hotmail's policy is? how many email messages are too many?
  209. Kev No, but if your provider is blocking mail because it's from mailing lists, your choices are limited.
  210. Neustradamus stpeter: no :/
  211. Kev As I understand it, this isn't a blacklisting issues, it's just that your provider doesn't like receiving several mails at once, which is always going to happen with mailing list traffic.
  212. Neustradamus the server is really secure?
  213. Kev No server is really secure if it's attached to the internet.
  214. stpeter :)
  215. stpeter true day
  216. stpeter dat even
  217. Neustradamus correct
  218. stpeter Kev: that's my understanding, too -- they just don't like to receive a burst of messages or "too many messages" (not sure if that's in any particular time frame)
  219. Zash "Reason for rate limitation is related to IP/domain reputation."
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  222. Neustradamus There are not sender bot on the server?
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  224. waqas Mailing lists used to work fine on hotmail when I used to use it, but that was a long time ago
  225. intosi hotmail loves rate limitjng servers
  226. stpeter less for them to do :-)
  227. intosi phps mailgun can help out? ralphm?
  228. Neustradamus intosi: same for AOL?
  229. intosi yes
  230. Neustradamus but it is really strange, I had never problem before
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  234. ralphm intosi: didn't you mention we've been blacklisted and that you have been fixing things recently?
  235. dwd .sdrawkcab tuo emoc segassem ym semitemoS
  236. dwd ?detaler eb siht dluoC
  237. Kev Mr. Cridland, please to try to behave.
  238. intosi i did
  239. Zash ‏.gnibrutsid kram LTR fo kcal ruoy dnif I :dwd
  240. intosi spent many hours on fuxing tjings
  241. intosi hacker kbd on a phone screen is.. less ideal
  242. dwd Zash, Back before the dawn of time, I used to be able to type backwards fairly fluently. I used to tell people on IRC that I'd changed some setting in my client, and please could they help me.
  243. Zash Haha
  244. Kev /part and /quit are sitting on a wall. /part falls off. Who's left?
  245. Kev As the old one goes.
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  247. intosi heh
  248. dwd has joined
  249. dwd Hey, that was cruel.
  250. Kev Or, slightly more amusingly, Hey this is really cool - see what happens if you type `/disco lights/` in your client!
  251. Zash Hahaaaaa
  252. dwd Come to think of it, Gajim actually has /commands, for all I know it has /quit.
  253. Zash I think it even has /exce -o
  254. intosi now my home lugting is blinking
  255. Zash I think it even has /exec -o
  256. intosi lighting
  257. Zash Pro-tip: Don't /exec -o yes
  258. Zash Unless you /exec -o yes otters!
  259. waqas http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWZLa4AnN5k
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  262. Zash lolwut
  263. ralphm intosi: so I think that taint could last some time
  264. Zash They didn't forsee that in StarTrek ^^
  265. ralphm intosi: I'd be happy to see if we can help out, just not right now
  266. intosi we ll chat abput it l8r
  267. ralphm k
  268. dwd Zash, Hello, my name is Computer End Program?
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