XSF Discussion - 2014-02-07

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13:28:31 simon Does the XSF have an official twitter account?
13:29:25 Kev I believe that the answer is No, but I couldn't swear to it.
13:29:43 simon @xmpp looks rather dead
13:29:54 simon might nudge him and ask if we could use it.
13:29:59 Steffen Larsen can we ask if we can have it from the given person?
13:30:23 Steffen Larsen is @xsf taken?
13:31:18 bear yes, Donnet Yatsko has it
13:31:24 bear with all of zero tweets
13:31:34 Steffen Larsen :-)
13:31:51 simon Should I know who he is?
13:32:01 bear doubtful
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13:34:20 bear we could send twitter a letter asking them to take over the xsf account because it's our brand
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13:34:40 ralphm https://support.twitter.com/articles/15362-inactive-account-policy
13:35:00 simon Nice friendly note sent.
13:35:11 simon Will follow up if/when I hear anything back.
13:35:22 bear k
13:35:47 Lloyd Who runs the facebook xmpp page?
13:36:05 ralphm Lloyd: I'm pretty sure that's Neustradamus
13:36:49 ralphm there's also one for the foundation
13:38:12 Alex I thnk thats the most active on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jabber
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13:50:07 dwd xnyhps, So your own tests don't use a valid certificate? Have to score you an F, then. :-P
13:54:09 xnyhps It doesn't even listen on a socket for incoming connections, it's completely fake. :P
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13:55:34 simon xnyhps - do you plan on testing that sites reject invalid certs.
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13:56:21 Zash That would be one interesting data point.
13:57:53 simon Zash: My thinking too. Basically check whether servers blindly trust peers.
13:58:21 Zash Well, most servers will fall back to dialback, but there are some who reject
13:59:04 simon Zash: good point.
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13:59:48 Zash I have a bot running on a server with a self-signed cert, which is useful partly for that reason.
13:59:56 simon I personally run with s2s_secure_auth = true (on prosody) so that I don't have to trust DNS too much.
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14:00:52 dwd simon, Trouble is, I think the different combinations of security options yield some surprising results. Accepting dialback with self-signed certs is probably (I think) fine in combination with DNSSEC.
14:00:55 Zash Bunneh, ping acc.umu.se
14:00:56 Bunneh Zash: Ping failed (remote-server-not-found): Server-to-server connection failed: not-authorized (Your server's certificate is invalid, expired, or not trusted by acc.umu.se)
14:01:00 Zash Like that :)
14:01:50 dwd simon, I think that "classic" TLS auth is better than DNSSEC+dialback+unauth-TLS. But it's not by much.
14:02:54 simon dwd: does one need to use a CA for DANE to work?
14:04:00 simon my thinking was that DANE + a signed TLD, invalidated the need to use CAs - a good thing imho
14:04:43 Zash DNSSEC removes some attack vectors from dialback. Attacks on IP routing could still work, but that ought to be harder.
14:06:02 Zash simon: There are a few variants in DANE. You can say something like 'only this CA is allowed here and you must trust it already'
14:06:46 Zash or you can point to your own CA and specify that as a root, or point to the actual cert or public key used by the server
14:07:08 simon likes giving the middle finger to CAs.
14:07:51 Zash If you use the non-PKI variants of DANE, you'll still have your TLD as CA :)
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14:07:58 ralphm likes his middlefingers. Keeping them.
14:09:38 simon Would be really nice if someone could write up a basic guide for the wiki. I'd really like to get this deployed on some of my own domains.
14:09:53 simon (with or without middle-finger-donations)
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15:03:01 ralphm Chromebox for Meetings. Wonder how much XMPP is in there.
15:04:24 ralphm (https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/business/solutions/for-meetings.html)
15:08:34 fippo ralphm: the thing formerly known as libjingle is inside ;-)
15:08:49 ralphm well, yeah, of course
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16:06:43 Ge0rG dwd: NebuK is asking about your MUC merge progress. come back to yaxim@chat.yax.im please :)
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16:07:38 simon Yaxim + muc would be nice.
16:08:36 Ge0rG simon: indeed. there is some old code for that, but it needs to be polished and brought forward into current master.
16:08:53 Ge0rG simon: Dave did some progress with that, but forgot to tell us where to find his code ;)
16:09:26 dwd Ge0rG, Actual work is a bit busy, sorry. But I've merged to about June, so far.
16:09:49 Ge0rG dwd: thats ok, but please coordinate more with NebuK on the yaxim MUC.
16:09:57 Ge0rG dwd: he is starting to merge stuff as well... :)
16:10:47 Ge0rG is a bit busy with staying away from work... and from the laptop. so must delegate this
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16:15:52 NebuK hi there
16:16:39 NebuK dwd, and here is the MUC guy ;) i'm currently trying to merge my own horrible code into current master -- how is you progress with that? (even though offtopic -- and/or do you want to come over to yaxims MUC?)
16:21:59 dwd NebuK, I've merged to about June or so. WOrking through slowly. I'll get there, but I'm busy with work etc right now.
16:27:28 NebuK oh, ok
16:28:06 NebuK so ... what exactly are you merging? simply muc into master, or anything else? also, do you have your current state in a git somewhere, so i can start off from there?
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16:44:37 dwd NebuK, No, it's halfway through a massive rebase. :-) Not something I can push anywhere.
16:45:56 NebuK uh
16:46:00 NebuK what are you doing, if i might ask?
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20:16:29 Neustradamus I sent an email on the members ML because I have not email since November 2013.
20:20:04 stpeter Neustradamus: you can send but not receive?
20:20:13 Neustradamus yes
20:20:55 Zash Nothing in a spam folder?
20:21:08 Neustradamus like I have already said, jabber.org/xmpp.org are on blacklists
20:22:33 Neustradamus there were discussions on iteam room, but the problem is not really resolved :/
20:22:57 Zash What blacklists?
20:23:07 stpeter Neustradamus: I am going to send you a test message from stpeter@jabber.org - please let me know if you receive it
20:24:25 Neustradamus stpeter: I will inform you if I have
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20:24:44 stpeter Neustradamus: you won't receive it
20:24:51 Neustradamus no
20:24:51 stpeter mail.log says: Feb 7 20:21:32 atlas postfix/smtp[24019]: 3EE4E219EA8: to=<lbxmpp@live.com>, relay=mx2.hotmail.com[65.55.92.184]:25, delay=0.49, delays=0.08/0/0.37/0.04, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host mx2.hotmail.com[65.55.92.184] said: 421 RP-001 (SNT0-MC4-F52) Unfortunately, some messages from 208.68.163.215 weren't sent. Please try again. We have limits for how many messages can be sent per hour and per day. You can also refer to http://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx#errors. (in reply to MAIL FROM command))
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20:25:50 Neustradamus intosi said me it is same for AOL and others companies
20:31:42 stpeter well, for instance, the operators@xmpp.org list has 25 @hotmail.com addresses subscribed, and if we have a lot of traffic on the list then hotmail might consider that spammy
20:32:33 fippo if only mail servers knew about their users subscriptions and could apply that to "karma" limits ;-)
20:32:33 Neustradamus hotmail.* live.* outlook.* for ML (not only operators)
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20:33:36 Neustradamus stpeter: DKIM and SPF are easy no?
20:33:51 Zash SPF is there already
20:34:06 Zash DKIM is anything but easy
20:34:10 stpeter the last time I tried to install DKIM I hosed my VPS
20:34:32 Zash DKIM and mailing lists are not friends
20:35:10 waqas A lot of the ML emails used to end up in spam, because of DKIM
20:36:28 Neustradamus what will be the best solution for you?
20:36:52 stpeter Neustradamus: use a different email service?
20:37:19 Neustradamus But I am not alone
20:38:38 stpeter Neustradamus: do you know what hotmail's policy is? how many email messages are too many?
20:38:52 Kev No, but if your provider is blocking mail because it's from mailing lists, your choices are limited.
20:39:08 Neustradamus stpeter: no :/
20:39:29 Kev As I understand it, this isn't a blacklisting issues, it's just that your provider doesn't like receiving several mails at once, which is always going to happen with mailing list traffic.
20:39:51 Neustradamus the server is really secure?
20:40:06 Kev No server is really secure if it's attached to the internet.
20:40:30 stpeter :)
20:40:33 stpeter true day
20:40:36 stpeter dat even
20:40:46 Neustradamus correct
20:41:18 stpeter Kev: that's my understanding, too -- they just don't like to receive a burst of messages or "too many messages" (not sure if that's in any particular time frame)
20:41:29 Zash "Reason for rate limitation is related to IP/domain reputation."
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20:43:25 Neustradamus There are not sender bot on the server?
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20:45:32 waqas Mailing lists used to work fine on hotmail when I used to use it, but that was a long time ago
20:46:09 intosi hotmail loves rate limitjng servers
20:46:33 stpeter less for them to do :-)
20:46:44 intosi phps mailgun can help out? ralphm?
20:46:45 Neustradamus intosi: same for AOL?
20:46:51 intosi yes
20:48:16 Neustradamus but it is really strange, I had never problem before
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21:06:59 ralphm intosi: didn't you mention we've been blacklisted and that you have been fixing things recently?
21:08:37 dwd .sdrawkcab tuo emoc segassem ym semitemoS
21:09:10 dwd ?detaler eb siht dluoC
21:10:10 Kev Mr. Cridland, please to try to behave.
21:10:20 intosi i did
21:11:07 Zash ‏.gnibrutsid kram LTR fo kcal ruoy dnif I :dwd
21:11:08 intosi spent many hours on fuxing tjings
21:11:52 intosi hacker kbd on a phone screen is.. less ideal
21:12:53 dwd Zash, Back before the dawn of time, I used to be able to type backwards fairly fluently. I used to tell people on IRC that I'd changed some setting in my client, and please could they help me.
21:13:09 Zash Haha
21:13:27 Kev /part and /quit are sitting on a wall. /part falls off. Who's left?
21:13:35 Kev As the old one goes.
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21:14:00 intosi heh
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21:14:12 dwd Hey, that was cruel.
21:14:42 Kev Or, slightly more amusingly, Hey this is really cool - see what happens if you type `/disco lights/` in your client!
21:14:58 Zash Hahaaaaa
21:15:11 dwd Come to think of it, Gajim actually has /commands, for all I know it has /quit.
21:15:28 Zash I think it even has /exce -o
21:15:36 intosi now my home lugting is blinking
21:15:37 Zash I think it even has /exec -o
21:15:53 intosi lighting
21:16:16 Zash Pro-tip: Don't /exec -o yes
21:16:33 Zash Unless you /exec -o yes otters!
21:19:48 waqas http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWZLa4AnN5k
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21:22:06 Zash lolwut
21:22:48 ralphm intosi: so I think that taint could last some time
21:23:01 Zash They didn't forsee that in StarTrek ^^
21:23:36 ralphm intosi: I'd be happy to see if we can help out, just not right now
21:24:35 intosi we ll chat abput it l8r
21:24:48 ralphm k
21:25:13 dwd Zash, Hello, my name is Computer End Program?
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