XSF Discussion - 2014-02-08

Interesting that Justin Uberti refers to non-WebRTC endpoints as 'legacy'.

what does he define as an endpoint?

Simon: this is on the rtcweb mailing list. I assume a participant in an audio/video session.

ralphm: this list http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/maillist.html ?

Yes

ralphm: they've had ample time to upgrade to modern voip ;-)

Yeah

I think part of this is the confusion about what WebRTC is

on the one hand it is the set of protocols and features on the wire

on the other hand it is the stuff available through JS APIs in browsers

hmm, it seens Xabber is surpressing messages by your own nick and only shows what you type in that client. That's not great for nick-sharing.

Did that one also supress messages with duplicated ids?

don't remember

and the devs are pretty much non-responsive

I wish somebody made an awesome, modern client with MUC support.

ralphm: +1

So, you can't run an mailing list without paying someone anymore?

Zash: not if you want to deliver to MS or AOL and have more than a very low amount of traffic.

Note that in the past, even a small site like ik.nu was hit by this, with only a few mailing lists and a few users on those lists at Hotmail.

They throttle after a number of messages per hour / per day, and they don't disclose numbers. This is partially because the numbers are based on a number of factors, and I have a feeling they don't want to give spammers any clue in how to circumvent them.

This clearly sucks royally.

And mail I sent to gmail accounts used (probably still do) to end up in the spam folder :(

I was trying to run my own mailing lists for Buddycloud bits. It started sucking really bad (even with DKMS etc and SPF settings). I gave up and now use google groups. Not ideal, but messages get through and I'm not dealing with a bunch of admin.

So, yeah, this stuff is really hard and while good for companies like Mailgun, I hope that XMPP doesn't have to go in that direction.

Also, for relatively low volume but spiky traffic, these services are usually free of cost. In our case, <=10000 outbound msg/month.

ralphm: I think xmpp servers are in a better position. e.g. you can tap into roster data for increasing karma limits

fippo: I hope so

In any case, I've asked intosi how many msg/m we currently send out