current agenda items for todays board meeting:
Editor Team
bear
doh!
bear
Editor Team
GSoC Update
???
Simon
did we want to mention anything about the upcoming SSL test day?
bear
yes please
ralphm
Woah bear, you're awake!
bear
Editorial Team
GSoC Update
Upcoming Ubiquitous Encyrption Test Day
ralphm
Also, this is still pre-meeting, yes?
bear
hush ralphm - you may scare me into going back to sleep
bear
yes
Zash
Did anyone write a summary of the last test day?
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bear
I don't believe so - I was finding it hard to know how well it did
Zash
There was some ML discussion, iirc
bear
if you point me to some words that are close to a summary, I can polish them and make a post
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bearpokes dwd
bearpokes laura
Laura
Stop poking me! I;m here :)
bear
:)
bear
current agenda:
Editorial Team update by Kev
GSoC Update
XMPP Test Day
???
Laura
XMPPUK meetup / IETF
Kev
To save issues if I don't pay attention in the meeting, Council would like to suggest Matt Miller, Ashley Ward, Stefan Strigler, Lloyd Watkin, Steffen Larsen and Winfried Tilanus as the Editor team.
stpeterat least is here for the Board meeting
bear
thanks Kev
Kev
(This is, for those paying attention, the list of all non-Council and non-Board volunteers who posted to the list request. It does not include those who implicitly volunteered by not raising their hand when I asked who was not willing to volunteer at the summit :))
stpeter
heh
Kev
bear: You have a PM from me, if you'd take a look please :)
bear
uhhh
bearreads
dwddecloacks.
bear
is that what a ducks does when it decloaks?
bear
ok, with dave here - we have everyone present - shall we start? laura, ralphm, Simon, dwd ??
Simonwaves
dwd
Wow. Full house.
Laura
It's a miracle!
bear
and with that I shall...
bearbangs the gavel
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bear
current agenda: Editorial Team, GSoC, XMPP Test Day, XMPP UK Meetup
bear
any other agenda items?
ralphm
here
bear
no other items to add to the agenda?
dwd
Yeah, could we try and enumerate all the things we said we'd put off until after FOSDEM?
stpeter
dwd: :-)
dwd
Also, FOSDEM renumeration etc.
bear
ok, first item - the Council has suggested a starting list of folks for the Editorial work team:Matt Miller, Ashley Ward, Stefan Strigler, Lloyd Watkin, Steffen Larsen and Winfried Tilanus
stpeter
we're numbering FOSDEM again?
ralphmwacks stpeter
bear
unless any objects, I say we vote yea/nea for that list and then send out an email to members@
Kev
That should be everyone in the "Editorial team" thread, sans Board/Council.
bearlooks in horror at his typing today
ralphm
+1 om the Team
Kev
If someone could double-check that, it'd be good.
Laura
+1
dwd
The list looks good, and with enough people. I'm +1.
bear
kev - the list is accurate
Kev
bear: TY.
dwd
(Without feeling a need to go hunt for more).
bear
simon?
Simon
+1
ralphm
WOOOO
bear
thanks - I will email the members@ team and cc the above with the info
stpeter
great
dwd
Oh - is stpeter volunteering for the team, or is this a complete handover?
ralphm
Assuming bear voted +1, too
bear
+1
stpeter
we'll schedule an organizational meeting next week sometime
bear
stpeter is specifically denied a spot on the team
bear
:)
stpeter
heh
dwd
I'm fine either way, just want to know.
stpeter
well, we will need to work out processes and procedures and all that, so I suppose I'll be an advisor of some kind
bear
I think yes, he is on the team
bear
righ
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dwd
OK, cool.
bear
ok, on to the next item: GSoC update
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bear
we have had two groups add items to the project list but they are still lacking some details - emails have gone out for more information but the deadline is fast approacching.
bear
what I would like the board to do is agree that Kev and myself will be making the final call to apply or not later this week after we have reviewed the projects.
dwd
Sure.
bear
is that ok with the board?
ralphm
I'm confidant that bear and Kev can make that call.
dwd
Is the aim to do a "good" XSF GSoC application, or merely a "good enough" one?
ralphm
+1
bear
a good one
Kev
dwd: Good.
Laura
+1
dwd
OK, I'm fine with that as the policy.
dwd
+1 (for the sake of clarification)
Kev
"Good enough" doesn't get in to GSoC, generates work for the XSF, and generates work for the GSoC team who have to review all the applications.
Kev
So unless we can be confident that our houses are well and truly in order (or made of cards, or something), I'd like us to not enter.
bear
simon has dropped off - i'll add his vote later, but right now it's 4 +1's
bear
yes, given the status and nature of the work, I do not want to get us involved unless we have a firm set of projects
Kev
As things stand at the moment, the IoT and BC ones are almost there, but not quite. Smack has appeared from nowhere without knowing who's involved, and the Gajim ones are incomplete. So unless things change, I think we should gracefully skip another year.
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stpeternods
bear
ok, that is a Yes to allowing Kev and myself to making the final call for GSoC
ralphm
indeed
bear
thanks Kev for riding herd on that task
bear
ok, next item: XMPP Test Day
Simon
sorry - connectivity issues.
Simon
here
bear
do we have anyone who wants to write up a blog post about the upcoming test day?
bear
thanks simon
dwd
At the risk of sounding immeasurably ill-informed, what test day?
Simon
Happy to write a quick post and forward it.
bear
we should also get someone to write up a summary of the last one
Simon
Just a "hey - we're testing security again"
bear
that works for me - email it to me and i'll get it posted
Simon
bear: will do.
Laura
Dave won't be writing the blog then
ralphm
Laura: :-D
bear
this will have the same tone as the last one - that we are notifying of the event and without any explicit XSF endorsements
Simon
22nd is a Saturday incase anyone is wondering
dwd
Oh, this is for the manifesto thing.
bear
heck, I don't even know what today is
fippo
is there a non-saturday test scheduled?
Simon
don't know.
dwd
Laura, I'll be *reading* the blog post, though.
bear
fippo: http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Security_XMPP
bear
ok, anything else for test day item?
stpeter
they are all Saturdays
ralphm
intentionally, I assumed
stpeter
the next ones are February 22, March 22, and April 19
stpeter
yes
fippo
well, at least one of the tests should be on a day when people using jabber at work should notice.
Simon
stpeter: last I heard Google was promising to do something s2s wise. But not it seems not.
dwd
Simon, I was told this by an anonymous Googler at FOSDEM, too.
Simon
btw, is jabber.org taking part in the tests?
Kev
It is.
Kev
It did for the last one, at least.
stpeter
Simon: they promised by May 19, not necessarily before
Simon
ok - unless there is other security stuff, let's move on.
bear
next item - XMPP UK Meetup
bear
laura?
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Laura
Yes, just to say that Dave is helping me to organise the XMPP UK Meetup in March
Laura
And I would like to share a blog post about the ITEF / XMPPUK meetup days
Laura
If I may
dwd
I am?
Simon
what's the final date?
Laura
Tues 4th March
bear
please do post to the blog and to members@
Laura
And yes Dave, you are
Kev
This is the meetup Lloyd promised me would be in February, so I could plan to attend :p
Laura
I got bullied into moving it
Laura
To align with IETF event?
dwd
Kev, March is the new February.
Lloyd
Laura: bullied? Oi!
Laura
I have written ITEF / IETF - it's something like that
Kev
Internet Task Engineering Force.
Kev
I can believe that.
Laura
Ahhh
Laura
That
dwd
Kev, :-)
ralphm
Kev: you can still plan to attend
stpeter
Internet Engineering Task Force aka IETF
Kev
ralphm: I can. That day is just jolly inconvenient.
ralphm
well, yeah, carnival and all that. I understand
Laura
That is all from me, just wanted all to be aware
dwd
Oh. This reminds me of another agenda entry.
bear
laura - will be posting to blog and members@ (or forward me the words and i'll do it)
bear
wow - my english sucks today
Laura
Will do. Fabulous
bear
thanks
dwd
stpeter made the (very sensible) suggestion of the XSF funding day-tickets for the IETF, so we could help people attend the XMPP_WG meeting.
bear
we should mention that in the members@ post
dwd
I'd second this, and also extend it both beyond XSF members, and also beyond just the IETF fee, on a case-by-case basis.
ralphm
bear: what is your native language?
dwd
We should probably vote on both.
dwd
ralphm, Growls.
bear
ralphm - grunts
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ralphm
:-D
bear
anyhone opposed to funding the IETF day pass reimbursement?
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bear
(doing it as two votes)
Laura
No
bear
i'm +1 on day pass funding
Kev
I do have a question about this.
bear
sure
Kev
Which is has anyone formulated what the benefit to the XSF is of arbitrary members being sponsored to attend?
Kev
(blanket, rather than case by case - there are certainly members whose attendance is beneficial. I'm less convinced that it's all)
bear
the benefit is getting XSF members present and participating in the WG discussions
Kev
That's what it does, it's not clearly a benefit :)
Simon
I can imagine a hardship fund in extreme cases - but to be funding "arbirtary" members seems a little odd to me.
bear
increasing participation by removing a financial barrier
stpeter
BTW, the student fee is less than the day pass fee
Tobias
for locals of course
ralphm
arguably, one can participate without being physically present
Simon
Q: what is a day pass fee?
ralphm
$350
Tobias
stpeter, been reading that in a couple years they'll be back in berlin (:
ralphm
$650 early bird all days
stpeter
well, given that this is probably the last XMPP WG meeting, it might be beneficial to have some people who know about XMPP participating while we make decisions
Laura
I am with Kev, I don't understand offering to pay for people 'outside' of our community?
ralphm
(<=21 Feb)
dwd
I think the benefit to the XSF is providing increased participation in specification development.
ralphm
and $800 after
stpeter
Laura: well, these are people inside our community
Simon
I can see this making sense in the one-off case for xnyhps - but let's deal with this on a case by case basis rather than trying to establish a blanket rule.
bear
I don't believe it was for outside of XSF people
dwd
Laura, XSF members are (or should be) involved with helping to run the XSF. XMPP folk, though, are a broader community.
Kev
Do we have count(XSF Members) * $350 we can easily spare from the XSF kitty?
Laura
Got you. I take my comment back. As you all were.
dwd
Kev, Actually, yes, I think we probably do.
stpeter
realistically how many people do we think might take advantage of this offer? let's poll the members to find out
stpeter
I would say perhaps only a few, but I don't know
bear
count(XSF) = 52 but I don't think we will get 52
ralphm
Who in this room would maybe apply for this?
dwd
Laura, Ah, but there's a little point in my comment, which is that sponsoring XSF members without question probably isn't in line with our goals.
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bear
and if we have that problem, then I will back up my thought with getting the sponsor for that value
ralphm
I'm am personally thinking about going.
Kev
bear: I don't either. I just worry about writing checks we can't cash (sic).
stpeter
(I'll not again that I think this is a one-time event)
dwd
ralphm, I honestly don't know whether I would ask for the cash or not.
stpeter
s/not/note/
ralphm
dwd: and that, too
Laura
We could be creative here
Laura
If people did want funding to attend, we could ask for a commitment from them
Kev
I will probably try to attend, and I'm not sure it's reasonable to ask Isode to pay for it (given Isode's Alexey involvement in the IETF), or to ask Cath to let me pay it myself. So I might well.
Laura
A little 'I will scratch your back if you scratch mine'
ralphm
People will have to pay to get there. If they show that commitment, I'm ok with funding a day pass.
Tobias
if I were already near the event for other reasons, but traveling just for that, there is just too much costs involved (aside from the meeting fees)
stpeter
Tobias: yes
stpeter
Tobias: the meeting fee is the smallest part of it, really
ralphm
stpeter: you'd be surprised for europeans
dwd
stpeter, FOr the whole meeting, yes. Not so much for a couple of nights.
Tobias
indeed...i heard london isn't the cheapest place across europe
bear
do we have a consensus on this: let's email the members@ list and poll to find out how many people would be interested in having the XSF cover their day-pass cost
dwd
We could see about a block booking at a hotel to cut costs. We've enough London or London-savvy people to help folk navigate.
dwd
bear, I would rather email standards@ actually. Those are the people who would bring most benefit.
Simon
What do people planning on attending the XMPP WG hope to achieve that is not being achieved at the Summits and on mailing lists?
Laura
+1 to poll
ralphm
dwd: not, say, the xmppwg list?
ralphm
Simon: that's a fair question
Kev
Simon: I do generally feel I have things to say in the WG meetings, and saying them remotely is a bit of a bind.
dwd
Simon, I think the simple answer is that the XMPP WG meetings are to the core RFCs what the Summits are to XEPs.
Kev
(That is - I almost always attend the XMPP WG meetings, remotely)
fippo
simon: the audience at the IETF is quite different from the summit one.
Tobias
fippo, indeed :D
dwd
Also, I think a clearly visible, vibrant community would encourage the reverse - IETF folk joining in with XMPP related activity.
fippo
summit == people deeply involved in xmpp. ietf == mostly people doing other ietf stuff
stpeter
Simon: decisions on the WebSocket draft, DNA/POSH, etc. - and perhaps this is an inducement for people to also participate in the XMPP-UK meetup (or perhaps the other way around: participate in the XMPP WG session if they're already planning to be at the XMPP UK meeting)
dwd
ralphm, And finally - the xmppwg list also works for me, but my possibly erroneous feeling si that the standards@: folk are the ones we really need - the broader XMPP community.
ralphm
I suggest we set up a wiki page like we did for FOSDEM/Summit and have people sign up there
stpeter
oh I don't think it would be good to post about this to the xmpp@ietf.org list
ralphm
dwd: yes. I was already in favor, though.
stpeter
that would seem strange to IETF folk
ralphm
stpeter: ok
bear
what is the name of the ietf meeting - XMPP_WG?
stpeter
IETF 89 - we care about the XMPP Working Group session, but there are other sessions on that day, too
stpeter
http://www.ietf.org/meeting/89/index.html
bearcreates IETF_89 wiki page
stpeter
the agenda is at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/89/agenda.html
dwd
An alternate way of doing this would be to agree a budget for sponsoring people to attend.
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dwd
That is, how much are we willing to spend on this?
ralphm
I note that the cut-off date for hotel reservations is in 3 days
dwd
ralphm, Yeah, but I sort of assumed I'd not be able to afford the hotel. :-)
ralphm
dwd: sure, but people might want to know
dwd
ralphm, We could arrange an XMPP hotel, as it were.
stpeteris staying at a much cheaper hotel nearby
ralphm
nod
stpeter
the IETF conference hotel is always hugely expensive
Simon
Do we have a treasurer avaliable?
stpeter
we don't have a treasurer, only me
Simon
Can you give an indication of the current balance?
Laura
I can try and help to find cheap hotels if needed
dwd
Simon, It's roughly $16k, as I recall, with approximately $1k committed.
stpeter
we have $16,866.37 in the bank, before reimbursing people for FOSDEM
dwd
Damn, I was almost 1k out.
Simon
ok.
ralphm
Ok, people, I have to leave the meeting early. I'll vote later.
Simon
I need to leave soon too.
Simon
Can we agree for someone to take an action on this and move on please?
dwd
Simon, What action would we like, though?
Simon
imho that next step needs to be to come up with some options.
bear
the option on the table is do we offer to cover the day pass to those who ask
dwd
Simon, I'm good with polling standards@ to gauge interest, and/or deciding on a budget for this.
Simon
who, how much and exactly what they will be doing on the XSF's behalf.
stpetersends a sample sponsorship invoice to the board@ list
bear
I will create a wiki page, send an email to member@ and standards@ asking people to sign up
dwd
Simon, Participation in the IETF is, like participation in the XSF's STandards SIG, purely individual.
bear
after getting that data we can then discuss what the cost will be
Simon
dwd: if it's purely individual then why the XSF involvement?
stpeter
@bear seems reasonable
bear
because, IMO, we should help folks attend who may not have companies behind them to help increase the XSF's visibility to outside groups
stpeter
Simon: because we need to finish our deliverables in the XMPP WG at the IETF and if getting more people with clue involved will push us over the line, that's great for XMPP in general
dwd
stpeter, Right, that.
Simon
IMHO this should be effort driven not budget driven - what's the WG trying to achieve, who needs to be there, then who can't be there becasue of costs.
ralphm
I'd be amazed if more than 7 people would apply for this.
stpeter
ralphm: agreed
ralphm
and I'd support that
stpeter
I would forecast maybe 5 people
Simon
stpeter - thanks. I was missing that part.
ralphm
so were around the 2k mark there
ralphm
we're
bear
k, let me get the wiki page up and start beating the bushes for people who will be attending
bear
then we can have some data to discuss next time
stpeter
ralphm: I'd expect so, yes
stpeter
bear: WFM
bear
k, anything else to add or discuss?
Simon
+1 for next topic.
bear
that was the last topic
dwd
There are people who wouldn't because of the other costs involved; I think we should be prepared to consider further bursaries as needed, but we can deal with that later.
dwd
[16:30:27] dwd: Yeah, could we try and enumerate all the things we said we'd put off until after FOSDEM?
[16:31:10] dwd: Also, FOSDEM renumeration etc.
dwd
We can put off the first until next meeting. :-)
bear
I will take it as a task to prepare that list for next meeting
Kev
I think bursaries for a select few people who can usefully contribute would be quite sensible. More so than offering entrance fees for everyone, probably.
bear
and have the agenda in hand before
Simon
+1 Kev.
stpeternods to Kev
dwd
The second, though, I just need an invoice form - stpeter, I think you were going to send a sample to the board@?
stpeter
dwd: I just sent that
stpeter
a few minutes ago
bear
dwd - are you handling the invoice generation?
dwd
bear, Just this once. I'd rather not end up being the treasurer. :-)
bear
anyone have anything else to discuss?
Simon
Last minute addition: Unless there's any other business, I'd like to mention the need for some kind of Tweet action and see if we can rustle up @XMPP or @XSF or something appropriate for the XSF to use to promote ourselves on Twitter.
Simon
I tried reaching out to the owners of those accounts but didn't hear back.
Simon
Unless anyone objects, I'll ping some friends who work at twitter and see if they can put me in touch with someone that handles dormant accounts.
Laura
Sounds good! I would really support this
bear
+1 simon
Laura
And will help Simon
Simon
ok - leave it with me.
Simon
I'll report on progress next week
ralphm
+1
bear
anything else?
Laura
Not here
ralphm
Don't forget your members vote
bear
dwd, ralphm?
dwd
Nothing more from me.
stpeter
we could easily register xmppfoundation at Twitter etc.
stpeter
that at least is available
bear
i'll register that now
stpeter
ok
bear
ok, calling this meeting done - i'll get minutes up tonight
ralphm
stpeter: that's a smart thing to do, and makes it possible to transition over to another one when it comes available
bearbangs gavel
stpeter
ralphm: yep
bear
thanks everyone for a great meeting and discussion!
Laura
*waves*
ralphm
date of next: +1W
stpeter
Laura: I will review your ISOC blog post right now!!!
Laura
stpeter: thank you!
bear
twitter.com/xmppfoundation registered
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bear
wiki page created (but it is very empty - I ran out of words)
bear
email sent to members@ asking people to register on wikipage
ralphm
bear: lorem ipsum
bear
:)
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stpeter
OK I updaed http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/IETF_89 a bit
bear
:)
bear
thanks peter
stpetergets back to his real job :-)
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bear
pushes "publish" on ISoc blog post
fippo
oh... thanks whoever fixed the voxeo logo btw
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ralphm
stpeter: what? This is still isn't your real job?
bear
for the life of me I cannot figure out how to get the main page side bar to update