XSF Discussion - 2014-02-21

  1. ralphm Zash: thanks. Putting that on the reading list for tomorrow
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  5. Maranda DHT..
  6. Maranda suddenly had a chill run up his spine.
  7. stpeter Maranda: ?
  8. stpeter oh, does Tobias mention DHTs in that message?
  9. stpeter I need to read it again
  10. Maranda stpeter, not sure but the whole mention of having a DHT overlay on top of xmpp gives me chills, no trolling intended :) sorry.
  11. stpeter actually I know some people building a DHT-based overlay on the entire Internet ;-)
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  29. xnyhps It'd be nice to have a mobile client that gives you a view like WhatsApp (ignoring groups and only showing the list of recent conversations, sorted by recentness)
  30. xnyhps But I don't think you'll be able to do the 0-step setup unless you compromise in some way.
  31. xnyhps It's exactly an example of Zooko's Triangle: you can either have it secure, or decentralized, but not both.
  32. simon xnyhps - I wish Adium gave me the option to sort my chat tabs by recentness too :)
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  34. fippo the third edge being usable?
  35. xnyhps Human-meaningful.
  36. xnyhps (Human-meaningful in this context because you're trying to link an existing phone number to an account, not because phone numbers are particularly easy to remember)
  37. fippo the twinlife guys had some interesting idea about giving out personalized addresses to each contact -- http://bloggeek.me/twinlife-webrtc-interview/
  38. fippo but I think that is very far from the human-meaningful edge :-/
  39. fippo i wonder why people still get away with "our webrtc thing works on chrome only" without a decent technical reason...
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  41. xnyhps The page isn't clear to me whether that is decentralized or not.
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  52. Ge0rG xnyhps: isn't whatsapp a one-step setup?
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  54. xnyhps What step? Picking a display name?
  55. Zash And phone numbers aren't exactly hard to predict / brute-force
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  59. Ge0rG xnyhps: you have to at least enter / confirm your phone number
  60. xnyhps Pretty sure your phone will know its phone number. :P
  61. Ge0rG xnyhps: pretty sure is not factual knowledge. I know that my phone doesn't know its number
  62. xnyhps Okay, it's clicking "OK" a couple of times, but in a typical setup you wouldn't need to enter anything yourself.
  63. Ge0rG IIRC apple phones are disallowed from getting the phone number at all
  64. xnyhps I know you can setup WhatsApp on a different device, but its not common and probably not something they officially support.
  65. xnyhps Ge0rG: I really doubt that. Don't you mean IMEI?
  66. Ge0rG xnyhps: no, I meant phone number
  67. Zash Are phones really aware of their own phone number?
  68. Ge0rG xnyhps: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/193182/programmatically-get-own-phone-number-in-ios
  69. xnyhps I stand corrected. :)
  70. xnyhps But does it still do the text message activation?
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  72. Ge0rG xnyhps: yes it does. So I assume you have to enter the phone number
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  81. Ash Sorry about wading into a discussion that I know little about, but couldn't an app send a text message to the app provider, which would then reveal the phone number?
  82. Kev No.
  83. Kev Or, rather, yes, they could send a text revealing /a/ phone number, but necessarily their own.
  84. Kev I don't think the phone number on texts is strongly authenticated. I could be wrong.
  85. Kev Although I could easily be wrong, and thinking of something else.
  86. fippo alex: update your email template :-)
  87. Alex ups, ya, that was the wrong one ;-)
  88. Ge0rG Kev, Ash: a phone can not easily fake the sender number when sending an SMS, but there are services that can do that. So you'd have to prevent the original SMS from being sent, and fake it from another SMS source
  89. Kev Ge0rG: Preventing an SMS being sent is fairly easy. Just turn off the mobile network.
  90. Ge0rG Kev: it requirese some sophistication at least
  91. Ge0rG the more important point I see is, many people still have to pay for SMS, so it is better to let the provider send an SMS to the customer
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  101. Ash Is it possible for an app to receive an SMS? If so you could have the app send an sms to the app provider, and along another channel (https) send a generated token. The app provider could then send an sms back to the number with the token in. I assume this reply would be far more difficult to subvert?
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  110. simon Ash - yes, at least in Android and Symbian you have a receieve priority for inbound SMSs. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/18940286/how-to-make-my-sms-app-is-highest-priority-to-receive-broadcast-receiver
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  119. dwd simon, You don't happen to know if the SMS "port number" stuff works in Android, do you?
  120. dwd Oh, turns out it does.
  121. dwd So that might be more reliable than listening to all SMSs.
  122. dwd Done my voting.
  123. Kev Did mine this morning. Not entirely sure how I failed to do it until today.
  124. Kev I typically do it the moment Alex sends the first mail.
  125. dwd Yeah, I confess to being busy. I've tried to be as careful as I can with "yes" votes; to the extent of even voting down people I know quite well, which feels a bit weird.
  126. Kev I applied my normal rules.
  127. Kev significant_contributor_to_the_XSF's_goals() ? yes : no;
  128. dwd Yeah, I just was more struct about XMPP vs XSF this time around.
  129. dwd struct? strict.
  130. dwd Guess what langauge Dave is programming in today.
  131. Tobias COBOL?
  132. Tobias :P
  133. Kev dwd: I'm not sure what the full list of reasons new members get past my filter is. I think it's largely just standards contributions or outreach.
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  179. Neustradamus 14/02/22: the second security test day: http://xmpp.org/2014/02/second-security-test-day/
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