XSF Discussion - 2014-02-26

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  22. dwd

    fippo, I am. I'm hoping he'll snap and "interview" one of us.

  23. Kev


  24. dwd

    Tsahi's blog, http://bloggeek.me

  25. dwd

    He comes out with stuff like "I am not a fan of XMPP to say the least, but I don’t really have anything bad to say about this approach."

  26. dwd

    That's the most positive thing he's yet said.

  27. ralphm

    dwd: for what it's worth, I found his posts reasonably low on signal

  28. ralphm

    Like the new one talking about 'SaaS'.

  29. dwd

    ralphm, Yes, they often are, but I'd like to have his low-grade mumblings also mention XMPP positively.

  30. fippo

    ralphm: the analiysis of signalling protocol completly misses some important facts

  31. fippo

    like: "you typically use sip because then you can use webrtcs sdp thing -- but note that webrtc sdp != sdp"

  32. fippo

    or: "jingle doesnt use sdp, webrtc does so you need a transformation"

  33. fippo

    but i dont want to generate content on his blog (-:

  34. Lance

    for those interested, I have a first, very rough, draft for the new push xep ready here: https://github.com/legastero/customxeps/blob/gh-pages/extensions/push.md

  35. Lance

    comments welcome. tomorrow i'll xep-ify it and add in all of the formalities

  36. dwd

    Lance, If you are a client developer, and I can register with your client backend, can I construct some form of attack (on you, or on your client-users)?

  37. dwd

    Lance, Also, it *is* tomorrow. Even for you. :-)

  38. Simon

    Lance - Looks like what we chatted about at the Summit. I'll point Abmar to it as well. (for easy XEP-ing, I can recommend Lloyd's Github+Travis XEP workflow. - https://github.com/buddycloud/buddycloud-xep)

  39. Lance checks clock

  40. Lance

    heh, so it is

  41. Lance

    dwd: doing the registration via xmpp is nice as proof-of-ownership for a jid, so i can associate a device id with user jid

  42. Lance

    the main attack against me would be injecting someone elses device id

  43. ralphm

    dwd: sure thing, I've been telling people they are wrong on the internet by tracking http://display.ik.nu/xmpp

  44. dwd

    Lance, Yeah, but could I flood your push service with a slew of fake registrations from dummy accounts?

  45. Lance

    sure. just like you can ddos anything else. thats a problem every mobile app developer that uses accounts has to deal with

  46. dwd

    I wonder if there's a reasonable way of mitigating that.

  47. dwd

    In any case, don't take this as in any way blocking.

  48. ralphm

    dwd: eg. https://twitter.com/mike10010100/status/438353086978211840

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  50. dwd

    So, sponsorship - as I read things, Silver gets a logo, but no text, on the sponsors page, right?

  51. ralphm

    dwd: yes

  52. ralphm

    the table seems pretty clear to me

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  54. dwd

    Joachim makes a good point. One for the agenda this afternoon.

  55. fippo

    hey lloyd, you could have told me about @decentcamp :-)

  56. Lloyd

    How do you know I know :) Sorry. I think they only announced on Monday

  57. fippo

    twitter tells me you follow them as well

  58. Lloyd

    ahh :) Its a good location for visiting the girlfriend's family too.

  59. Lloyd

    For everyone else: http://decentralizecamp.com/ - have submitted to talk about XMPP

  60. Lloyd

    fippo maybe you could talk about webrtc but sneak a whole bunch of webrtc in ;)

  61. Lloyd

    second webrtc == xmpp, D'Oh!

  62. fippo

    yeah, even though a pure xmpp one might be good as well... "why decentralization is hard -- 15 years xmpp"

  63. ralphm

    oh, that's interesting

  64. ralphm

    also 2 days after open discussion day

  65. Simon

    talk proposals also submitted - this should be fun :)

  66. fippo


  67. Lloyd

    I think with all the submissions there'll be at least one XMPP session :)

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  69. dwd

    Decentralize! Own the web! Follow us on Twitter!

  70. Lloyd

    Oh the ironing ;)

  71. Kev

    In the sense of lacking Irony.

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  76. dwd

    Right. So I've done a pass over XEP-0001. The main changes I'm proposing (aside from some linguistic hoops) are: 1) Removed the timeout for Council [now Approving Body] objections - this is now a timeout for the Approving Body Chair to poll the members of the Approving Body. The timeout for objections is then stipulated as being up to the Chair. 2) Switched the Approving Body for Humorous XEPs to being the Editor; I think this is how it's actually been for some years anyway.

  77. dwd

    So the change in (1) now means that a ProtoXEP will go up before the Council within 14 days, rather than objections must be filed within 14 days. Again, I think this matches what actually happens.

  78. dwd

    Oh, note I've also removed the stipulation for "the next meeting", so the Council Chair could punt a submission on Wednesday morning to the next meeting within the process; I'm not sure that's ever happened, actually, but it was easier to frame the text that way.

  79. fippo

    i do wonder whether we should hold council meetings on april 1st where those xeps are discussed....

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  83. dwd

    There, sent to the list.

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  85. intosi

    dwd: thanks.

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  87. intosi

    dwd: you forgot to mention the Humorous XEPs in <section1 topic='Publication Process' anchor='publication'> para 1.

  88. dwd

    Ah, yes, I forgot to add it.

  89. dwd

    I'd actually only changed that para to titlecase Approving Body since it's now a Thing.

  90. Zash

    A captital-T Thing?

  91. dwd

    Right. It's a Term, technically.

  92. Zash

    a Term Thing

  93. dwd

    So scanning for similar cases, I see there's no provision for modifying Humorous XEPs. It's also not clear if we can deprecate and obsolete them.

  94. dwd

    I don't think I care.

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  96. Simon

    If I got €1 for every person contacting me about switching to Threema… Now imagine if there was a service that let you send messages to friends over securely.

  97. Zash

    !define Threema

  98. Simon

    It's a swiss service that seems to be benefitting from the WhatsApp = Facebook effect.

  99. Zash

    Oh, no HAL

  100. Zash

    I've seen Telegram mentioned in a few places too :(

  101. dwd

    It might actually be worth pushing XMPP in this light.

  102. dwd

    That is, putting together some copy etc to specifically target this market.

  103. Tobias

    what do you mean with copy?

  104. fippo

    dwd: the old problem is that XMPP is a protocol, not a product. and those services offer a product

  105. dwd

    "copy" as in text etc.

  106. dwd

    fippo, Yes, indeed.

  107. Simon thinks it's worth us getting our push spec in order before pushing XMPP on mobile to end users.

  108. dwd

    fippo, There's an argument here for some productizing effort. But that loops back to testing, compliance suites, etc.

  109. dwd

    Simon, I sympathize with that, certainly, but there is *always* one more thing.

  110. Zash

    This market segment is probably going to care about e2e crypto

  111. Zash

    Regardless of if it's actually secure

  112. fippo

    dwd: yes, but that costs money. which you only have if you market a product (-:

  113. Simon

    dwd: indeed. But the people that have been asking me about Threema will not be running the current crop of XMPP clients willingly.

  114. Zash

    dwd: Allways.

  115. Zash

    dwd: And that thing is the most important one!

  116. Simon nods to Ge0rG et al and their great work to get things more usable.

  117. Zash

    Can't switch to XMPP unless it has that one thing!

  118. dwd

    Zash, Right.

  119. dwd

    Zash, FWIW, Mark Crispin used to complain that the IMAP world was full of these things without which IMAP would inevitably fail.

  120. dwd

    Zash, Yet whichever ones were left out, it still did the same.

  121. Zash

    In the end, it's only network effect that counts.

  122. dwd

    Zash, That's certainly the most important factor.

  123. fippo

    what is amazing is that we don't see the multi-protocol clients again...

  124. fippo

    but I guess the vendors are fighting them harder than last time.

  125. Zash

    fippo: Just wait

  126. dwd

    Either fighting, or they've switched to offering an XMPP interface to their silo.

  127. Zash

    All this has happened before etc

  128. Zash

    When did the first multi-protocol clients show up?

  129. fippo

    1997 maybe?

  130. Simon

    Has anyone used http://instantbird.com <http://instantbird.com/> or know how closely it's tied into Mozilla?

  131. Zash

    Simon: The IM support in Thunderbird is build on that iirc.

  132. dwd

    No and no. But I imagine we could find out the latter easily.

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  134. Zash

    I /think/ the guy showed up at FOSDEM last year

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  137. Zash

    or was it the year before

  138. fippo

    ah, florian talked to me at fosdem. I did not know he was behind instandbird

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  140. dwd

    Which Florian?

  141. Zash

    dwd: http://www.instantbird.com/about.html

  142. dwd

    Oh, a new Florian.

  143. dwd

    TO me.

  144. Zash

    So many Florians

  145. dwd

    So little time.

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  148. Simon

    Is there a recommended indentation tab/spaces size and line wrap length for XEPs (bonus: Eclipse settings that I can import)?

  149. dwd

    I don't think so.

  150. Simon

    dwd - so woe to anyone who reformats a document and then tries to make a diff of it? Or is there a nice way to make an XML diff that I'm missing?

  151. dwd

    Simon, I think Tobias made some tools to diff XEPs.

  152. dwd

    [14:44:05] Dave Cridland: http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-people/#editor actually says to submit XEPs to Peter directly, still.

  153. dwd

    I was actually trying to find the XEP submission address. :-)

  154. Zash

    dwd: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0001.html#appendix-discuss whataboutthtatone

  155. dwd

    Ah, errata. Yes, not what I was doing, though.

  156. dwd

    I'm catching up on Exciting Board Paperwork. :-)

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  158. Simon

    Do we have an agenda for this week?

  159. dwd

    Not AFAIK.

  160. intosi

    Excellent, my mail helped. Joker now supports submission of DS records for .nl domains.

  161. ilpoht45

    Alex: ralphm Kev Zash xnyhps MattJ Simon http://syriatalk.co/IMG_10209337760734.jpg

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  163. Simon reaches for the brain bleech.

  164. dwd submits a XEP.

  165. intosi

    Simon: you sure that will work?

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  167. ralphm

    Why do you people click on random URLs?

  168. ralphm

    Especially ones with 'syria' in them.

  169. Simon

    Look over there. Free donuts.

  170. ralphm


  171. Tobias

    Simon, or server side tool uses daisy diff and generates that diff based on the two HTML outputs of the different versions

  172. Simon

    Tobias - thanks. Do you have a non-syrian link for me?

  173. Tobias

    https://code.google.com/p/daisydiff/ this is the lib..or do you just want a diff of versions already in the repo, then this might help http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/

  174. ralphm

    Simon: ^

  175. Simon

    thanks :)

  176. ralphm

    Simon: Hoping you aren't affected

  177. dwd

    Of course, the lack of regulation the bitcoinistas enjoy so much also means they won't have the standard protections enjoyed by anyone using a traditional bank with boring, non-digital money.

  178. Simon

    ralphm: Thankfully not affected by the Gox madness. Actually I bought from Mark Karples before there was even a mtGox (by sending money to his friend in Sweden) Amazingly it all worked (and I pulled my coins into a private wallet immediately)

  179. dwd

    Simon, You've bought bitcoins?

  180. dwd

    Simon, I have this bridge I can sell you.

  181. ralphm

    Simon: I haven't looked into this stuff at all, but why would you *not* keep them in a private wallet?

  182. Tobias

    because of all the convenient cloud services?

  183. ralphm

    dwd: made of chocolate fudge?

  184. dwd

    Tobias, Right, and cloud services are cool.

  185. ralphm

    Tobias, dwd: Oh, I didn't know that.

  186. dwd

    ralphm, It's Tower Bridge. The UK is selling it and has made me sole agent. Honest.

  187. Simon

    ralphm: no idea. Well perhaps you are doing some exchange arbitrage and day-trading.

  188. ralphm

    Tobias, dwd: I don't know much about cloud services, really.

  189. Simon

    Might have a go at writing up a XEP for payment requests.

  190. dwd

    ralphm, Cloud services are like normal internet services except... Erm... cloudier.

  191. Tobias

    and with less privacy of course

  192. ralphm

    dwd: I should tell my boss, I guess. He might be interested in this cloud thing.

  193. dwd

    ralphm, And because clouds are cold - think of fog, for instance - then cloud services are cooler.

  194. Simon

    Tobias: nice tool.

  195. Tobias

    that's also why dwd stays in the foggy parts of this world :)

  196. ralphm

    dwd: I can see why they like Cloud services in San Francisco, too.

  197. dwd

    ralphm, Right.

  198. ralphm

    fog much

  199. dwd

    ralphm, They probably have cloud services in London, too, only they call them Pea Souper Services.

  200. intosi

    Cloud services in London occasionally cause my flight to be delayed or even cancelled.

  201. ralphm


  202. ralphm

    I'll make a note of this

  203. dwd

    Agenda Item: Spam protection.

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  205. dwd

    Agenda Item: XEP-0001 Changes (probably need to punt until next week)

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  207. dwd

    Agenda Item: ProtoXEP Submission on "Form of Membership Applications" (again, probably need to put until next week)

  208. dwd

    In other news, Sony have released their new toys. Being a complete Sony whore now, I'm drooling.

  209. Tobias

    does it include a new crypto fail?

  210. dwd

    Did Sony have one? Beyond the stock Android fails?

  211. Tobias

    the PS3 had one

  212. Tobias

    where their random number for their ECDSA signatures was always the same :D

  213. intosi

    Rootkit pre-installed?

  214. Simon

    Were there minutes of the editing team's meeting?

  215. dwd

    Simon, That meeting was yesterday; I don't know of minutes yet, but I asked M&M if he'd say a few words to the Board today.

  216. Simon

    dwd: that was going to be my next question.

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  229. stpeter

    I have a meeting IRL so I probably won't pay much attention to the Board meeting, but if I'm needed please include "stpeter" in the next so my client will show it in bold red text :-)

  230. ralphm

    ok stpeter

  231. m&m hurries off to grab more coffee

  232. ralphm


  233. ralphm

    Still two short

  234. Simon waves

  235. dwd


  236. Lloyd

    dwd, becoming more and more Welsh each day

  237. dwd

    Lloyd, What, with "Hiya"?

  238. Lloyd

    dwd yep, happy female Welsh I grant you, but I assumed you'd prefer me to leave those bits out.

  239. dwd

    Lloyd, Happy I'll grant you. The rest, not so much.

  240. dwd

    ralphm, Assuming you're chairing, I've put messages in here with "agenda" in them so you can find them in the logs. All today.

  241. ralphm

    "A battlecry a ninja yells when the ninja is ready to attack."

  242. dwd

    Oh, Miss Piggy, too.

  243. dwd

    But it was that kind of "Hiya" either.

  244. ralphm


  245. dwd

    I entirely missed out all my negatives there, yes.

  246. dwd

    It was not that kind of "Hiya" either.

  247. ralphm

    Anyway, even though we're still missing bear and Laura, shall we begin?

  248. dwd

    Laura sent apologies to the list.

  249. ralphm

    oh, good

  250. dwd

    Sorry, I thought you'd seen those.

  251. ralphm

    Wasn't aware of snow on the Isles

  252. ralphm


  253. ralphm

    0. Agenda

  254. ralphm

    dwd spammed this room today

  255. ralphm

    any other items?

  256. Simon

    I don't think Laura can make it (she couldn't make our website meeting before this one either)

  257. ralphm

    Simon: dwd just said "Laura sent apologies to the list."

  258. dwd

    Oh, the note to Board@ I sent WRT IETF.

  259. ralphm

    dwd: right

  260. Simon

    Nothing major from my end.

  261. ralphm

    1. Spam Protection

  262. emcho has left

  263. ralphm


  264. dwd

    So m&m mentioned that editor@ is inundated with spam, currently.

  265. dwd

    Making it hard to find the actual submissions in amongst the rubbish.

  266. ralphm

    the room, the list?

  267. dwd

    The list.

  268. dwd

    This is specifically email spam.

  269. ralphm

    why is it a problem on that list and not on the others?

  270. dwd

    Because that list relies on promptly handling messages from non-list members.

  271. ralphm

    dwd: ok, so this is something that the I-team should be able to handle. Or stpeter.

  272. m&m

    it takes some effort to separate the wheat and the chaff

  273. intosi

    iteam is looking at introducing greylisting on atlas.

  274. dwd

    Right, but a third-party spam filtering service might be in order, which would mean expenditure.

  275. m&m

    stpeter mentioned installing a graylisting filter

  276. stpeter

    yes iteam will be doing that

  277. m&m

    I think the greylisting will help significantly

  278. dwd

    If greylisting works, that's great - but I'd like to see Board agree in principle that item can go look for spam filtering services that cost actual money.

  279. dwd

    Or at least alert that they may need to.

  280. ralphm

    without too much self-promotion, intosi is looking into Mailgun for outgoing mail, they also do spam filtering for incoming

  281. Simon

    is there a good reason for the XSF to spend time running mailing lists rather than using commercial alternatives?

  282. Simon

    ralphm: great.

  283. dwd

    Simon, I would argue the mailing lists themselves (and the archives of them, more so) are a core service.

  284. ralphm

    dwd: agreed

  285. dwd

    Simon, For the most part this doesn't appear to be an onerous task, either.

  286. ralphm

    running mailman, when familiar, takes almost no resources

  287. ralphm

    it is things like spam that complicate things

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  289. dwd

    But anyway - can we tell iteam that we'll authorize actual money?

  290. ralphm

    dwd: I'd first like them to look at the options

  291. Simon


  292. ralphm

    dwd: but I am not opposed on principle

  293. Simon

    sorry - kbd slip

  294. dwd

    ralphm, OK. Sounds good to me.

  295. ralphm

    I also asked intosi to gather metrics on the number of messages we send out

  296. ralphm

    depending on the volume, the costs might be near or at zero

  297. intosi

    ralphm: sorry, forgot about that. been busy, have put it higher on my todo-list.

  298. ralphm

    intosi: no worries

  299. dwd

    All sounds good. FWIW, some of these places charge by the email address by the looks of things. Which could be quite amusing, given it's all lists.

  300. dwd

    Anyway, I'm done on this one.

  301. ralphm

    Mailgun charges only per outgoing message and per dedicated IP

  302. ralphm

    (the latter we don't need)

  303. ralphm

    2. XEP-0001 updates

  304. dwd

    Just a general note to read them. I don't think we've had sufficient discussion to consider them ready for voting.

  305. Simon


  306. Simon

    let's push to next week

  307. ralphm

    dwd: can't the Council do this themselves?

  308. dwd

    ralphm, The Approving Body for XEP-0001 is actually Board.

  309. ralphm

    ah yes

  310. ralphm

    I just noticed

  311. dwd

    ralphm, So it has to be us.

  312. ralphm

    oh well then

  313. ralphm

    I missed the Council meeting today, were the changes discussed there?

  314. dwd

    Only in as much as I called attention to them, and Kev/PSA noted that I may have the Humorous XEP approving body wrong.

  315. dwd

    FWIW, I still think that's probably the right change, but it's worth adding in some blurb about how they seek opinion as required.

  316. ralphm

    dwd: Kev is right, you just have no idea

  317. Kev

    Not sure that's exactly my wording.

  318. Kev

    But hey ho.

  319. dwd

    Kev, Well, you said the approving body was still council.

  320. Kev


  321. ralphm

    adding procedure also sucks humor

  322. Kev

    It was Ralph's "You have no idea" that I said I didn't say.

  323. ralphm

    going forward

  324. dwd

    Kev, Ah, OK.

  325. ralphm

    Kev: that was my opinion

  326. Kev

    ralphm: Right. I want to stay on Board's good side. You know how fickle they are.

  327. dwd

    ralphm, You should have had your humour formally approved before stating.

  328. Kev

    ralphm: If you propose your humour now, I can get it approved by Council in the next 28 days.

  329. Lloyd


  330. ralphm

    _ _ _ _ | | | | __ _| |__ __ _| | | |_| |/ _` | '_ \ / _` | | | _ | (_| | | | | (_| |_| |_| |_|\__,_|_| |_|\__,_(_)

  331. dwd

    OK, I'm good with this.

  332. ralphm

    3. ProtoXEP form of membership applications

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  334. dwd

    FWIW, the Editorial team haven't yet announced this, so I was a little premature in putting it on the agenda.

  335. ralphm

    I don't think we're in the habit of discussing protoxeps formally other than raising objections for admission

  336. m&m

    we're working on it!

  337. dwd

    Right, again this one's Approving Body is the XSF Board, and is the "Form of membership applications" that the By-Laws state we approve.

  338. ralphm

    m&m: we == board

  339. dwd

    Or need to approve. From time to time.

  340. dwd

    It's basically a marginally tidied version of what I sent to the memebrs list back in December.

  341. m&m

    in the case of the ProtoXEP publication, we == Editorial Team

  342. ralphm

    dwd: so is it in the inbox?

  343. m&m

    not yet

  344. Simon

    Could the party that raised this agenda item please outline the benefits of a proto-xep over the current wiki based system.

  345. dwd

    ralphm, Submitted. Not yet there. Like I said, I was a little premature.

  346. dwd

    Simon, There is no current system.

  347. ralphm

    dwd: ok, anything to discuss now then?

  348. dwd

    Simon, Or rather, there is no formally approved "Form of membership applications" that I can find.

  349. dwd

    Simon, So this ProtoXEP provides a proposal for one, and includes saying "Applications must be made on the Wiki" etc.

  350. dwd

    ralphm, Erm. Probably nothign more than a heads-up, and please read when you see it announced.

  351. ralphm

    4. AOB

  352. dwd

    Oh, yes.

  353. dwd

    m&m, Can you give a summary of where the Editorial Team is?

  354. dwd

    And if you say "scattered across the earth", I shall have to stick my tongue out at you.

  355. ralphm

    dwd: on teh intarwebs

  356. m&m


  357. dwd sticks his tonugue out at ralphm

  358. m&m

    the team had its first meeting yesterday @ 16:00 UTC

  359. emcho has joined

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  363. m&m

    we got a brain dump from stpeter on the processes he's followed all of these years

  364. m&m

    changed editor@xmpp.org from an alias to a mailing list

  365. m&m

    and have some documents we're working through on processes, templates, etc

  366. m&m

    so far I'm the only member of the team with (most of) the necessary access to do things

  367. m&m

    we'll get the rest of them up and running as soon as we can

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  369. ralphm

    m&m: ok, cool. Thanks for the update.

  370. ralphm

    any other Any Other Business?

  371. m&m

    there's more, but I'm not yet ready for that part yet (-:

  372. m&m

    I'm assembling a postmortem writeup on part of the process so far

  373. dwd

    Oh, we need some updates to various bits of website to handle the switch from PSA to the Editorial Team.

  374. ralphm

    m&m: right

  375. m&m

    which might have some recommendations for infrastructure updates

  376. dwd

    Who can make those changes?

  377. m&m

    it looks like I might be able to now, actually

  378. m&m

    but also stpeter

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  380. m&m

    that's all I have, really!

  381. dwd

    OK, thanks.

  382. Simon

    Nice update m&m.

  383. intosi has joined

  384. ralphm

    5. Date of Next

  385. ralphm

    I assume +1W is tricky for some.

  386. ralphm

    So proposing +2W

  387. dwd

    That works for me.

  388. ralphm

    I'm not sure I'll be able to be online around then, yet.

  389. ralphm

    But let's just schedule it

  390. Simon

    Could someone attending IETF volunteer to write up a blog post on the XSF activities there

  391. dwd


  392. ralphm

    dwd: yes

  393. dwd

    Simon, That would be useful.

  394. ralphm

    Simon: your question is noted

  395. ralphm

    6. Close

  396. ralphm

    Thanks all!

  397. ralphm bang gavel

  398. dwd


  399. m&m

    too late

  400. dwd

    We didn't cover that IETF question I had.

  401. Ash

    Also maybe someone who is going to the IETF and the evening XMPP meetup might like to give a summary at the meetup about what happened at the IETF session

  402. Simon has left

  403. ralphm

    dwd: I asked for AOAOB

  404. m&m

    Ash: I'm planning to attend both, so I could do that if no one else is willing

  405. dwd

    ralphm, Yes, quite, my fault - I'd mentioned it at the beginning then forgot again.

  406. ralphm

    dwd: but +1

  407. dwd

    ralphm, I'll ask on the list.

  408. ralphm

    dwd: that seems proper

  409. ralphm

    m&m: awesome

  410. Ash

    Thanks m&m - I'll put your name down :)

  411. m&m


  412. m&m goes back to slideware

  413. ralphm goes for dinner

  414. dwd

    Ash, You know Tuesday is free enrty (kind of) for ISOC members? And ISOC membership is free...

  415. m&m

    actually, let me get that ProtoXEP into the inbox

  416. Ash

    I was thinking of doing it myself, but I don't think I'm going to be able to make the IETF now as next week is starting to look pretty busy!

  417. Kev

    Right, yes. I should presumably look at ISOC membership at some point prior to Tuesday.

  418. Kev

    dwd: What's the procedure here for getting entry as an ISOC member?

  419. Kev

    (Pointer to appropriate URL is a fine answer)

  420. dwd

    I *entirely* forget. Let me see if I can dig out the mail I got.

  421. dwd

    It could even be too late.

  422. Kev


  423. dwd

    I have some minutes written up, BTW.

  424. dwd

    Do any Board members want to review ahead of time, or shall I just post them to memebrs@?

  425. m&m


  426. dwd

    Oh, so *that's* why everyone seems to ignore my mail.

  427. Zash


  428. intosi


  429. dwd

    MemeBruceStephens@ was actually what came to my mind.

  430. m&m

    need moar cats!

  431. intosi

    dwd: I knew it did.

  432. intosi

    dwd: same here.

  433. m&m

    it's not a meme without cats

  434. dwd

    Minutes sent to board@ cc members@, noted unapproved.

  435. intosi

    Any iOS users here with tips on XMPP clients for iPad / iPhone? Monad does seem to choke on any site not doing SSLv3, ChatSecure seems to crash on me.

  436. intosi


  437. dwd

    intosi, What was the one that was announced on one of the mailing lists last week?

  438. intosi

    Not sure I saw the message you're talking about

  439. intosi

    Ah, Boogie Chat.

  440. dwd

    That rings a bell.

  441. dwd

    It looks the part at least.

  442. emcho has left

  443. intosi

    It wants me to manually provide hostname and port...

  444. Zash


  445. emcho has joined

  446. intosi

    Zash: quite.

  447. dwd

    That's not a great start.

  448. intosi

    Not really, no.

  449. intosi

    And no notifications of chats when the app is not the foreground app.

  450. dwd

    Oh, I know what you could do.

  451. dwd

    But it involves changing your phone to something reasonable.

  452. Zash

    N900! :P

  453. dwd

    I said "something reasonable".

  454. Zash

    Right, that was way into the "too awesome to be true" category

  455. intosi

    dwd: it's not for me.

  456. dwd

    intosi, Right. That sounds suspiciously like one of those "A friend of mine - no, not me, really - " stories.

  457. intosi

    dwd: I know. Although I'd like to have a good XMPP client on my iPad, I'm more than happy to just use my Nexus 7 or Android phone when on the road.

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