XSF Discussion - 2014-02-26

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  22. dwd fippo, I am. I'm hoping he'll snap and "interview" one of us.
  23. Kev Whowherewhat?
  24. dwd Tsahi's blog, http://bloggeek.me
  25. dwd He comes out with stuff like "I am not a fan of XMPP to say the least, but I don’t really have anything bad to say about this approach."
  26. dwd That's the most positive thing he's yet said.
  27. ralphm dwd: for what it's worth, I found his posts reasonably low on signal
  28. ralphm Like the new one talking about 'SaaS'.
  29. dwd ralphm, Yes, they often are, but I'd like to have his low-grade mumblings also mention XMPP positively.
  30. fippo ralphm: the analiysis of signalling protocol completly misses some important facts
  31. fippo like: "you typically use sip because then you can use webrtcs sdp thing -- but note that webrtc sdp != sdp"
  32. fippo or: "jingle doesnt use sdp, webrtc does so you need a transformation"
  33. fippo but i dont want to generate content on his blog (-:
  34. Lance for those interested, I have a first, very rough, draft for the new push xep ready here: https://github.com/legastero/customxeps/blob/gh-pages/extensions/push.md
  35. Lance comments welcome. tomorrow i'll xep-ify it and add in all of the formalities
  36. dwd Lance, If you are a client developer, and I can register with your client backend, can I construct some form of attack (on you, or on your client-users)?
  37. dwd Lance, Also, it *is* tomorrow. Even for you. :-)
  38. Simon Lance - Looks like what we chatted about at the Summit. I'll point Abmar to it as well. (for easy XEP-ing, I can recommend Lloyd's Github+Travis XEP workflow. - https://github.com/buddycloud/buddycloud-xep)
  39. Lance checks clock
  40. Lance heh, so it is
  41. Lance dwd: doing the registration via xmpp is nice as proof-of-ownership for a jid, so i can associate a device id with user jid
  42. Lance the main attack against me would be injecting someone elses device id
  43. ralphm dwd: sure thing, I've been telling people they are wrong on the internet by tracking http://display.ik.nu/xmpp
  44. dwd Lance, Yeah, but could I flood your push service with a slew of fake registrations from dummy accounts?
  45. Lance sure. just like you can ddos anything else. thats a problem every mobile app developer that uses accounts has to deal with
  46. dwd I wonder if there's a reasonable way of mitigating that.
  47. dwd In any case, don't take this as in any way blocking.
  48. ralphm dwd: eg. https://twitter.com/mike10010100/status/438353086978211840
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  50. dwd So, sponsorship - as I read things, Silver gets a logo, but no text, on the sponsors page, right?
  51. ralphm dwd: yes
  52. ralphm the table seems pretty clear to me
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  54. dwd Joachim makes a good point. One for the agenda this afternoon.
  55. fippo hey lloyd, you could have told me about @decentcamp :-)
  56. Lloyd How do you know I know :) Sorry. I think they only announced on Monday
  57. fippo twitter tells me you follow them as well
  58. Lloyd ahh :) Its a good location for visiting the girlfriend's family too.
  59. Lloyd For everyone else: http://decentralizecamp.com/ - have submitted to talk about XMPP
  60. Lloyd fippo maybe you could talk about webrtc but sneak a whole bunch of webrtc in ;)
  61. Lloyd second webrtc == xmpp, D'Oh!
  62. fippo yeah, even though a pure xmpp one might be good as well... "why decentralization is hard -- 15 years xmpp"
  63. ralphm oh, that's interesting
  64. ralphm also 2 days after open discussion day
  65. Simon talk proposals also submitted - this should be fun :)
  66. fippo haha
  67. Lloyd I think with all the submissions there'll be at least one XMPP session :)
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  69. dwd Decentralize! Own the web! Follow us on Twitter!
  70. Lloyd Oh the ironing ;)
  71. Kev In the sense of lacking Irony.
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  76. dwd Right. So I've done a pass over XEP-0001. The main changes I'm proposing (aside from some linguistic hoops) are: 1) Removed the timeout for Council [now Approving Body] objections - this is now a timeout for the Approving Body Chair to poll the members of the Approving Body. The timeout for objections is then stipulated as being up to the Chair. 2) Switched the Approving Body for Humorous XEPs to being the Editor; I think this is how it's actually been for some years anyway.
  77. dwd So the change in (1) now means that a ProtoXEP will go up before the Council within 14 days, rather than objections must be filed within 14 days. Again, I think this matches what actually happens.
  78. dwd Oh, note I've also removed the stipulation for "the next meeting", so the Council Chair could punt a submission on Wednesday morning to the next meeting within the process; I'm not sure that's ever happened, actually, but it was easier to frame the text that way.
  79. fippo i do wonder whether we should hold council meetings on april 1st where those xeps are discussed....
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  83. dwd There, sent to the list.
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  85. intosi dwd: thanks.
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  87. intosi dwd: you forgot to mention the Humorous XEPs in <section1 topic='Publication Process' anchor='publication'> para 1.
  88. dwd Ah, yes, I forgot to add it.
  89. dwd I'd actually only changed that para to titlecase Approving Body since it's now a Thing.
  90. Zash A captital-T Thing?
  91. dwd Right. It's a Term, technically.
  92. Zash a Term Thing
  93. dwd So scanning for similar cases, I see there's no provision for modifying Humorous XEPs. It's also not clear if we can deprecate and obsolete them.
  94. dwd I don't think I care.
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  96. Simon If I got €1 for every person contacting me about switching to Threema… Now imagine if there was a service that let you send messages to friends over securely.
  97. Zash !define Threema
  98. Simon It's a swiss service that seems to be benefitting from the WhatsApp = Facebook effect.
  99. Zash Oh, no HAL
  100. Zash I've seen Telegram mentioned in a few places too :(
  101. dwd It might actually be worth pushing XMPP in this light.
  102. dwd That is, putting together some copy etc to specifically target this market.
  103. Tobias what do you mean with copy?
  104. fippo dwd: the old problem is that XMPP is a protocol, not a product. and those services offer a product
  105. dwd "copy" as in text etc.
  106. dwd fippo, Yes, indeed.
  107. Simon thinks it's worth us getting our push spec in order before pushing XMPP on mobile to end users.
  108. dwd fippo, There's an argument here for some productizing effort. But that loops back to testing, compliance suites, etc.
  109. dwd Simon, I sympathize with that, certainly, but there is *always* one more thing.
  110. Zash This market segment is probably going to care about e2e crypto
  111. Zash Regardless of if it's actually secure
  112. fippo dwd: yes, but that costs money. which you only have if you market a product (-:
  113. Simon dwd: indeed. But the people that have been asking me about Threema will not be running the current crop of XMPP clients willingly.
  114. Zash dwd: Allways.
  115. Zash dwd: And that thing is the most important one!
  116. Simon nods to Ge0rG et al and their great work to get things more usable.
  117. Zash Can't switch to XMPP unless it has that one thing!
  118. dwd Zash, Right.
  119. dwd Zash, FWIW, Mark Crispin used to complain that the IMAP world was full of these things without which IMAP would inevitably fail.
  120. dwd Zash, Yet whichever ones were left out, it still did the same.
  121. Zash In the end, it's only network effect that counts.
  122. dwd Zash, That's certainly the most important factor.
  123. fippo what is amazing is that we don't see the multi-protocol clients again...
  124. fippo but I guess the vendors are fighting them harder than last time.
  125. Zash fippo: Just wait
  126. dwd Either fighting, or they've switched to offering an XMPP interface to their silo.
  127. Zash All this has happened before etc
  128. Zash When did the first multi-protocol clients show up?
  129. fippo 1997 maybe?
  130. Simon Has anyone used http://instantbird.com <http://instantbird.com/> or know how closely it's tied into Mozilla?
  131. Zash Simon: The IM support in Thunderbird is build on that iirc.
  132. dwd No and no. But I imagine we could find out the latter easily.
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  134. Zash I /think/ the guy showed up at FOSDEM last year
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  137. Zash or was it the year before
  138. fippo ah, florian talked to me at fosdem. I did not know he was behind instandbird
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  140. dwd Which Florian?
  141. Zash dwd: http://www.instantbird.com/about.html
  142. dwd Oh, a new Florian.
  143. dwd TO me.
  144. Zash So many Florians
  145. dwd So little time.
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  148. Simon Is there a recommended indentation tab/spaces size and line wrap length for XEPs (bonus: Eclipse settings that I can import)?
  149. dwd I don't think so.
  150. Simon dwd - so woe to anyone who reformats a document and then tries to make a diff of it? Or is there a nice way to make an XML diff that I'm missing?
  151. dwd Simon, I think Tobias made some tools to diff XEPs.
  152. dwd [14:44:05] Dave Cridland: http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-people/#editor actually says to submit XEPs to Peter directly, still.
  153. dwd I was actually trying to find the XEP submission address. :-)
  154. Zash dwd: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0001.html#appendix-discuss whataboutthtatone
  155. dwd Ah, errata. Yes, not what I was doing, though.
  156. dwd I'm catching up on Exciting Board Paperwork. :-)
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  158. Simon Do we have an agenda for this week?
  159. dwd Not AFAIK.
  160. intosi Excellent, my mail helped. Joker now supports submission of DS records for .nl domains.
  161. ilpoht45 Alex: ralphm Kev Zash xnyhps MattJ Simon http://syriatalk.co/IMG_10209337760734.jpg
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  163. Simon reaches for the brain bleech.
  164. dwd submits a XEP.
  165. intosi Simon: you sure that will work?
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  167. ralphm Why do you people click on random URLs?
  168. ralphm Especially ones with 'syria' in them.
  169. Simon Look over there. Free donuts.
  170. ralphm http://www.did-i-loose-all-my-bitcoins-on-mtgox.com/
  171. Tobias Simon, or server side tool uses daisy diff and generates that diff based on the two HTML outputs of the different versions
  172. Simon Tobias - thanks. Do you have a non-syrian link for me?
  173. Tobias https://code.google.com/p/daisydiff/ this is the lib..or do you just want a diff of versions already in the repo, then this might help http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/
  174. ralphm Simon: ^
  175. Simon thanks :)
  176. ralphm Simon: Hoping you aren't affected
  177. dwd Of course, the lack of regulation the bitcoinistas enjoy so much also means they won't have the standard protections enjoyed by anyone using a traditional bank with boring, non-digital money.
  178. Simon ralphm: Thankfully not affected by the Gox madness. Actually I bought from Mark Karples before there was even a mtGox (by sending money to his friend in Sweden) Amazingly it all worked (and I pulled my coins into a private wallet immediately)
  179. dwd Simon, You've bought bitcoins?
  180. dwd Simon, I have this bridge I can sell you.
  181. ralphm Simon: I haven't looked into this stuff at all, but why would you *not* keep them in a private wallet?
  182. Tobias because of all the convenient cloud services?
  183. ralphm dwd: made of chocolate fudge?
  184. dwd Tobias, Right, and cloud services are cool.
  185. ralphm Tobias, dwd: Oh, I didn't know that.
  186. dwd ralphm, It's Tower Bridge. The UK is selling it and has made me sole agent. Honest.
  187. Simon ralphm: no idea. Well perhaps you are doing some exchange arbitrage and day-trading.
  188. ralphm Tobias, dwd: I don't know much about cloud services, really.
  189. Simon Might have a go at writing up a XEP for payment requests.
  190. dwd ralphm, Cloud services are like normal internet services except... Erm... cloudier.
  191. Tobias and with less privacy of course
  192. ralphm dwd: I should tell my boss, I guess. He might be interested in this cloud thing.
  193. dwd ralphm, And because clouds are cold - think of fog, for instance - then cloud services are cooler.
  194. Simon Tobias: nice tool.
  195. Tobias that's also why dwd stays in the foggy parts of this world :)
  196. ralphm dwd: I can see why they like Cloud services in San Francisco, too.
  197. dwd ralphm, Right.
  198. ralphm fog much
  199. dwd ralphm, They probably have cloud services in London, too, only they call them Pea Souper Services.
  200. intosi Cloud services in London occasionally cause my flight to be delayed or even cancelled.
  201. ralphm hm
  202. ralphm I'll make a note of this
  203. dwd Agenda Item: Spam protection.
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  205. dwd Agenda Item: XEP-0001 Changes (probably need to punt until next week)
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  207. dwd Agenda Item: ProtoXEP Submission on "Form of Membership Applications" (again, probably need to put until next week)
  208. dwd In other news, Sony have released their new toys. Being a complete Sony whore now, I'm drooling.
  209. Tobias does it include a new crypto fail?
  210. dwd Did Sony have one? Beyond the stock Android fails?
  211. Tobias the PS3 had one
  212. Tobias where their random number for their ECDSA signatures was always the same :D
  213. intosi Rootkit pre-installed?
  214. Simon Were there minutes of the editing team's meeting?
  215. dwd Simon, That meeting was yesterday; I don't know of minutes yet, but I asked M&M if he'd say a few words to the Board today.
  216. Simon dwd: that was going to be my next question.
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  229. stpeter I have a meeting IRL so I probably won't pay much attention to the Board meeting, but if I'm needed please include "stpeter" in the next so my client will show it in bold red text :-)
  230. ralphm ok stpeter
  231. m&m hurries off to grab more coffee
  232. ralphm Ok
  233. ralphm Still two short
  234. Simon waves
  235. dwd Hiya
  236. Lloyd dwd, becoming more and more Welsh each day
  237. dwd Lloyd, What, with "Hiya"?
  238. Lloyd dwd yep, happy female Welsh I grant you, but I assumed you'd prefer me to leave those bits out.
  239. dwd Lloyd, Happy I'll grant you. The rest, not so much.
  240. dwd ralphm, Assuming you're chairing, I've put messages in here with "agenda" in them so you can find them in the logs. All today.
  241. ralphm "A battlecry a ninja yells when the ninja is ready to attack."
  242. dwd Oh, Miss Piggy, too.
  243. dwd But it was that kind of "Hiya" either.
  244. ralphm neither?
  245. dwd I entirely missed out all my negatives there, yes.
  246. dwd It was not that kind of "Hiya" either.
  247. ralphm Anyway, even though we're still missing bear and Laura, shall we begin?
  248. dwd Laura sent apologies to the list.
  249. ralphm oh, good
  250. dwd Sorry, I thought you'd seen those.
  251. ralphm Wasn't aware of snow on the Isles
  252. ralphm anyway
  253. ralphm 0. Agenda
  254. ralphm dwd spammed this room today
  255. ralphm any other items?
  256. Simon I don't think Laura can make it (she couldn't make our website meeting before this one either)
  257. ralphm Simon: dwd just said "Laura sent apologies to the list."
  258. dwd Oh, the note to Board@ I sent WRT IETF.
  259. ralphm dwd: right
  260. Simon Nothing major from my end.
  261. ralphm 1. Spam Protection
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  263. ralphm dwd?
  264. dwd So m&m mentioned that editor@ is inundated with spam, currently.
  265. dwd Making it hard to find the actual submissions in amongst the rubbish.
  266. ralphm the room, the list?
  267. dwd The list.
  268. dwd This is specifically email spam.
  269. ralphm why is it a problem on that list and not on the others?
  270. dwd Because that list relies on promptly handling messages from non-list members.
  271. ralphm dwd: ok, so this is something that the I-team should be able to handle. Or stpeter.
  272. m&m it takes some effort to separate the wheat and the chaff
  273. intosi iteam is looking at introducing greylisting on atlas.
  274. dwd Right, but a third-party spam filtering service might be in order, which would mean expenditure.
  275. m&m stpeter mentioned installing a graylisting filter
  276. stpeter yes iteam will be doing that
  277. m&m I think the greylisting will help significantly
  278. dwd If greylisting works, that's great - but I'd like to see Board agree in principle that item can go look for spam filtering services that cost actual money.
  279. dwd Or at least alert that they may need to.
  280. ralphm without too much self-promotion, intosi is looking into Mailgun for outgoing mail, they also do spam filtering for incoming
  281. Simon is there a good reason for the XSF to spend time running mailing lists rather than using commercial alternatives?
  282. Simon ralphm: great.
  283. dwd Simon, I would argue the mailing lists themselves (and the archives of them, more so) are a core service.
  284. ralphm dwd: agreed
  285. dwd Simon, For the most part this doesn't appear to be an onerous task, either.
  286. ralphm running mailman, when familiar, takes almost no resources
  287. ralphm it is things like spam that complicate things
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  289. dwd But anyway - can we tell iteam that we'll authorize actual money?
  290. ralphm dwd: I'd first like them to look at the options
  291. Simon raphm
  292. ralphm dwd: but I am not opposed on principle
  293. Simon sorry - kbd slip
  294. dwd ralphm, OK. Sounds good to me.
  295. ralphm I also asked intosi to gather metrics on the number of messages we send out
  296. ralphm depending on the volume, the costs might be near or at zero
  297. intosi ralphm: sorry, forgot about that. been busy, have put it higher on my todo-list.
  298. ralphm intosi: no worries
  299. dwd All sounds good. FWIW, some of these places charge by the email address by the looks of things. Which could be quite amusing, given it's all lists.
  300. dwd Anyway, I'm done on this one.
  301. ralphm Mailgun charges only per outgoing message and per dedicated IP
  302. ralphm (the latter we don't need)
  303. ralphm 2. XEP-0001 updates
  304. dwd Just a general note to read them. I don't think we've had sufficient discussion to consider them ready for voting.
  305. Simon +1
  306. Simon let's push to next week
  307. ralphm dwd: can't the Council do this themselves?
  308. dwd ralphm, The Approving Body for XEP-0001 is actually Board.
  309. ralphm ah yes
  310. ralphm I just noticed
  311. dwd ralphm, So it has to be us.
  312. ralphm oh well then
  313. ralphm I missed the Council meeting today, were the changes discussed there?
  314. dwd Only in as much as I called attention to them, and Kev/PSA noted that I may have the Humorous XEP approving body wrong.
  315. dwd FWIW, I still think that's probably the right change, but it's worth adding in some blurb about how they seek opinion as required.
  316. ralphm dwd: Kev is right, you just have no idea
  317. Kev Not sure that's exactly my wording.
  318. Kev But hey ho.
  319. dwd Kev, Well, you said the approving body was still council.
  320. Kev Yes.
  321. ralphm adding procedure also sucks humor
  322. Kev It was Ralph's "You have no idea" that I said I didn't say.
  323. ralphm going forward
  324. dwd Kev, Ah, OK.
  325. ralphm Kev: that was my opinion
  326. Kev ralphm: Right. I want to stay on Board's good side. You know how fickle they are.
  327. dwd ralphm, You should have had your humour formally approved before stating.
  328. Kev ralphm: If you propose your humour now, I can get it approved by Council in the next 28 days.
  329. Lloyd :)
  330. ralphm _ _ _ _ | | | | __ _| |__ __ _| | | |_| |/ _` | '_ \ / _` | | | _ | (_| | | | | (_| |_| |_| |_|\__,_|_| |_|\__,_(_)
  331. dwd OK, I'm good with this.
  332. ralphm 3. ProtoXEP form of membership applications
  333. Lloyd has left
  334. dwd FWIW, the Editorial team haven't yet announced this, so I was a little premature in putting it on the agenda.
  335. ralphm I don't think we're in the habit of discussing protoxeps formally other than raising objections for admission
  336. m&m we're working on it!
  337. dwd Right, again this one's Approving Body is the XSF Board, and is the "Form of membership applications" that the By-Laws state we approve.
  338. ralphm m&m: we == board
  339. dwd Or need to approve. From time to time.
  340. dwd It's basically a marginally tidied version of what I sent to the memebrs list back in December.
  341. m&m in the case of the ProtoXEP publication, we == Editorial Team
  342. ralphm dwd: so is it in the inbox?
  343. m&m not yet
  344. Simon Could the party that raised this agenda item please outline the benefits of a proto-xep over the current wiki based system.
  345. dwd ralphm, Submitted. Not yet there. Like I said, I was a little premature.
  346. dwd Simon, There is no current system.
  347. ralphm dwd: ok, anything to discuss now then?
  348. dwd Simon, Or rather, there is no formally approved "Form of membership applications" that I can find.
  349. dwd Simon, So this ProtoXEP provides a proposal for one, and includes saying "Applications must be made on the Wiki" etc.
  350. dwd ralphm, Erm. Probably nothign more than a heads-up, and please read when you see it announced.
  351. ralphm 4. AOB
  352. dwd Oh, yes.
  353. dwd m&m, Can you give a summary of where the Editorial Team is?
  354. dwd And if you say "scattered across the earth", I shall have to stick my tongue out at you.
  355. ralphm dwd: on teh intarwebs
  356. m&m sure
  357. dwd sticks his tonugue out at ralphm
  358. m&m the team had its first meeting yesterday @ 16:00 UTC
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  363. m&m we got a brain dump from stpeter on the processes he's followed all of these years
  364. m&m changed editor@xmpp.org from an alias to a mailing list
  365. m&m and have some documents we're working through on processes, templates, etc
  366. m&m so far I'm the only member of the team with (most of) the necessary access to do things
  367. m&m we'll get the rest of them up and running as soon as we can
  368. emcho has joined
  369. ralphm m&m: ok, cool. Thanks for the update.
  370. ralphm any other Any Other Business?
  371. m&m there's more, but I'm not yet ready for that part yet (-:
  372. m&m I'm assembling a postmortem writeup on part of the process so far
  373. dwd Oh, we need some updates to various bits of website to handle the switch from PSA to the Editorial Team.
  374. ralphm m&m: right
  375. m&m which might have some recommendations for infrastructure updates
  376. dwd Who can make those changes?
  377. m&m it looks like I might be able to now, actually
  378. m&m but also stpeter
  379. intosi has left
  380. m&m that's all I have, really!
  381. dwd OK, thanks.
  382. Simon Nice update m&m.
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  384. ralphm 5. Date of Next
  385. ralphm I assume +1W is tricky for some.
  386. ralphm So proposing +2W
  387. dwd That works for me.
  388. ralphm I'm not sure I'll be able to be online around then, yet.
  389. ralphm But let's just schedule it
  390. Simon Could someone attending IETF volunteer to write up a blog post on the XSF activities there
  391. dwd 2014-03-12?
  392. ralphm dwd: yes
  393. dwd Simon, That would be useful.
  394. ralphm Simon: your question is noted
  395. ralphm 6. Close
  396. ralphm Thanks all!
  397. ralphm bang gavel
  398. dwd Oh.
  399. m&m too late
  400. dwd We didn't cover that IETF question I had.
  401. Ash Also maybe someone who is going to the IETF and the evening XMPP meetup might like to give a summary at the meetup about what happened at the IETF session
  402. Simon has left
  403. ralphm dwd: I asked for AOAOB
  404. m&m Ash: I'm planning to attend both, so I could do that if no one else is willing
  405. dwd ralphm, Yes, quite, my fault - I'd mentioned it at the beginning then forgot again.
  406. ralphm dwd: but +1
  407. dwd ralphm, I'll ask on the list.
  408. ralphm dwd: that seems proper
  409. ralphm m&m: awesome
  410. Ash Thanks m&m - I'll put your name down :)
  411. m&m graze
  412. m&m goes back to slideware
  413. ralphm goes for dinner
  414. dwd Ash, You know Tuesday is free enrty (kind of) for ISOC members? And ISOC membership is free...
  415. m&m actually, let me get that ProtoXEP into the inbox
  416. Ash I was thinking of doing it myself, but I don't think I'm going to be able to make the IETF now as next week is starting to look pretty busy!
  417. Kev Right, yes. I should presumably look at ISOC membership at some point prior to Tuesday.
  418. Kev dwd: What's the procedure here for getting entry as an ISOC member?
  419. Kev (Pointer to appropriate URL is a fine answer)
  420. dwd I *entirely* forget. Let me see if I can dig out the mail I got.
  421. dwd It could even be too late.
  422. Kev Ta.
  423. dwd I have some minutes written up, BTW.
  424. dwd Do any Board members want to review ahead of time, or shall I just post them to memebrs@?
  425. m&m members@
  426. dwd Oh, so *that's* why everyone seems to ignore my mail.
  427. Zash memeboards@
  428. intosi memebros@
  429. dwd MemeBruceStephens@ was actually what came to my mind.
  430. m&m need moar cats!
  431. intosi dwd: I knew it did.
  432. intosi dwd: same here.
  433. m&m it's not a meme without cats
  434. dwd Minutes sent to board@ cc members@, noted unapproved.
  435. intosi Any iOS users here with tips on XMPP clients for iPad / iPhone? Monad does seem to choke on any site not doing SSLv3, ChatSecure seems to crash on me.
  436. intosi Monal
  437. dwd intosi, What was the one that was announced on one of the mailing lists last week?
  438. intosi Not sure I saw the message you're talking about
  439. intosi Ah, Boogie Chat.
  440. dwd That rings a bell.
  441. dwd It looks the part at least.
  442. emcho has left
  443. intosi It wants me to manually provide hostname and port...
  444. Zash :|
  445. emcho has joined
  446. intosi Zash: quite.
  447. dwd That's not a great start.
  448. intosi Not really, no.
  449. intosi And no notifications of chats when the app is not the foreground app.
  450. dwd Oh, I know what you could do.
  451. dwd But it involves changing your phone to something reasonable.
  452. Zash N900! :P
  453. dwd I said "something reasonable".
  454. Zash Right, that was way into the "too awesome to be true" category
  455. intosi dwd: it's not for me.
  456. dwd intosi, Right. That sounds suspiciously like one of those "A friend of mine - no, not me, really - " stories.
  457. intosi dwd: I know. Although I'd like to have a good XMPP client on my iPad, I'm more than happy to just use my Nexus 7 or Android phone when on the road.
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