XSF Discussion - 2015-02-23

  1. Martin has joined

  2. Jef has left

  3. Tobias has joined

  4. Martin has left

  5. sorman has joined

  6. sorman has left

  7. sorman has joined

  8. Tobias has left

  9. sorman has left

  10. sorman has joined

  11. Jef has joined

  12. sorman has left

  13. sorman has joined

  14. sorman has left

  15. sorman has joined

  16. sorman has left

  17. sorman has joined

  18. waqas has left

  19. waqas has joined

  20. waqas has left

  21. waqas has joined

  22. waqas has left

  23. waqas has joined

  24. waqas has left

  25. waqas has joined

  26. waqas has left

  27. waqas has joined

  28. Maranda has left

  29. sorman has left

  30. sorman has joined

  31. sorman has left

  32. sorman has joined

  33. Valérian has left

  34. Maranda has left

  35. Maranda has joined

  36. Jef has left

  37. Maranda has joined

  38. waqas has left

  39. Valérian has joined

  40. Jef has joined

  41. Valérian has left

  42. Valérian has joined

  43. Jef has left

  44. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  45. tim@boese-ban.de has joined

  46. Valérian has left

  47. Valérian has joined

  48. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  49. daurnimator has left

  50. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  51. Valérian has left

  52. edhelas has joined

  53. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  54. Valérian has joined

  55. Valérian has left

  56. Valérian has joined

  57. linuxmaniac has joined

  58. Lloyd has joined

  59. Valérian has left

  60. Valérian has joined

  61. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  62. Will has joined

  63. Simon has joined

  64. Alex has joined

  65. Alex has left

  66. Alex has joined

  67. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  68. Zash has joined

  69. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  70. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  71. Tobias has joined

  72. edhelas has left

  73. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  74. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  75. Simon has left

  76. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  77. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  78. linuxmaniac has left

  79. goffi has joined

  80. goffi


  81. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  82. Kev

    Added two IoT things from Joachim to the GSoC page.

  83. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  84. Tobias

    +1 for self-aware water coolers

  85. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  86. Valérian has left

  87. Will has left

  88. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  89. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  90. marcelo has joined

  91. marcelo has left

  92. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  93. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  94. Valérian has joined

  95. souliane has joined

  96. sorman has left

  97. sorman has joined

  98. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  99. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  100. Maranda has joined

  101. Maranda has left

  102. Simon has joined

  103. Maranda has joined

  104. Simon has left

  105. Simon has joined

  106. Laura has joined

  107. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  108. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  109. Maranda has joined

  110. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  111. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  112. bjc has left

  113. Will has left

  114. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  115. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  116. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  117. Valérian has left

  118. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  119. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  120. Valérian has joined

  121. Valérian has left

  122. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  123. Valérian has joined

  124. Valérian has left

  125. Valérian has joined

  126. Valérian has left

  127. souliane has left

  128. Valérian has joined

  129. Maranda has joined

  130. Maranda has joined

  131. sorman has left

  132. sorman has joined

  133. Simon has left

  134. Simon has joined

  135. Simon has left

  136. Simon has joined

  137. Simon has left

  138. Simon has joined

  139. souliane has joined

  140. bjc has joined

  141. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  142. Flow

    Tobias: "self-aware water coolers"?

  143. Tobias

    Flow, just a reference to the IoT proposals to GSoC

  144. Flow

    ahh :)

  145. Flow

    Well the openHAB project sounds interesting (and not just because Smack is involved :))

  146. Kev

    I'm not comfortable that for the Sleek ond openHAB projects no-one from those projects is involved, but hopefully Joachim can sort that out by the time it matters (if it ever matters).

  147. Kev has left

  148. Kev has joined

  149. dwd has joined

  150. Flow

    Kev: yeah I was a bit suprised about the openHAB project too

  151. dwd has left

  152. sorman has left

  153. sorman has joined

  154. Kev

    If Joachim can get them to agree to have a project lead co-mentor, it's fine. Else we'll probably have to remove those ideas.

  155. Flow

    Sounds reasonable

  156. dwd has left

  157. Kev

    No idea if we'll be accepted this year, though. We'll see.

  158. Flow should really take a look at those IoT XEPs

  159. dwd

    Flow, Are you having trouble sleeping?

  160. Flow

    dwd: sleep is for the weak :)

  161. dwd

    Flow, Or those who've been reading the IoT specs...

  162. dwd has left

  163. dwd has left

  164. Flow

    hmm, I wasn't expecting those to be entertaining, but are they so "lengthy/boring"?

  165. fippo

    i keep saying that about the rayo specs

  166. dwd has left

  167. dwd has left

  168. dwd has left

  169. daurnimator has joined

  170. dwd has left

  171. Flow

    hmm some high level view on those iot xeps sure would be helpful

  172. Kev has left

  173. Kev has joined

  174. dwd has left

  175. dwd has left

  176. dwd has left

  177. Simon has left

  178. Simon has joined

  179. dwd has left

  180. dwd has left

  181. Tobias has left

  182. Laura

    Prepping for the Board meeting - as a reminder, this meeting has only 1 agenda item - Board Goals and the results of the recent survey

  183. dwd has left

  184. dwd has left

  185. dwd has left

  186. dwd has left

  187. adam has joined

  188. ralphm


  189. Kev

    "This meeting has only 1 agenda item; X and Y"

  190. adam


  191. ralphm

    Kev: :-)

  192. dwd has left

  193. stpeter has joined

  194. Simon


  195. Laura

    Ha ha Kev, they are the same thing :)

  196. Laura

    And hi folks, who do we have today?

  197. dwd waves

  198. Kev


  199. stpeter


  200. Laura

    Our minute taker is back, hurrah!

  201. Laura

    Any board members?

  202. adam raises hand

  203. Laura

    ralphm Simon Will ?

  204. Simon

    I'm here.

  205. dwd cracks open the colouring pencils.

  206. ralphm

    I was already here

  207. Laura

    Ok, hopefully Will isn't too far behind (as he did all this great work)

  208. Laura

    *bangs gavel* Let’s start the meeting!

  209. Will

    I'm here sorry!

  210. Laura

    Oh good :)

  211. Laura

    As we said last week, this meeting would be dedicated solely to the Board Goals.

  212. ralphm has left

  213. Laura

    Hopefully  the Board have had time to review the document.

  214. Laura

     I have just updated the access rights so this document is now open and can be viewed by anyone attending this meeting (link here: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1k0ISvtI38cZS7yg16X9bORHZSW0ruZRHepLJi0lNAls/edit?usp=sharing)

  215. Laura

    Last week I said: What I would like to suggest is that I share the results of that vote with the Board, and we each spend 5 minutes thinking about what activity / measure we need to commit to, to make that happen. I would like to propose that the Board meeting next week focuses solely on this - agreeing what we are going to do etc. I will then write a blog post about it - outlining what the vote results were and what the Board agrees to do.

  216. Laura

    *gives people a minute to read, open link etc)

  217. dwd has left

  218. Laura

    Are the Board folks with me and ready?

  219. ralphm


  220. Will


  221. Simon


  222. Laura

    OK. Let's work through this one page at a time

  223. dwd has left

  224. Laura

    % based goals

  225. Simon

    Do we have metrics from the website yet?

  226. Laura

    What are people's thoughts here - do we pick one, and backlog the others? Then as we achieve one, move down the list in order of what scored highest?

  227. Will

    on the % based, pick one I say

  228. Laura

    Board - what do each of you suggest (using the votes to help us understand what the community want)?

  229. Will

    and i'd go for website traffic (as membership engagement will fall out of other activities)

  230. Laura


  231. adam

    Agree with will. Membership engagement is too inwardly focused. If the website is effective, that will help membership.

  232. ralphm

    I think membership re-applications are a function of the perceived utility of the XSF

  233. Will

    happy to note that, as an engineering focused org, money came last ;-)

  234. ralphm

    doesn't seem like a goal in itself

  235. adam

    ralphm: it can be a goal, but isn't one that can be achieved directly.

  236. ralphm

    adam: I'm mostly talking about the prose at that item, but sure

  237. Simon

    I'm presuming there's an overarching goal of attracting new members implicit in what we do. Since looking at this one could assume there is no drive to attract new members.

  238. adam

    ralphm: agree

  239. dwd has left

  240. Laura


  241. Laura

    That is a wider achievement for the Board, I think

  242. Kev

    Simon: I don't think there is. There's an overarching goal to grow the community, but that's independent of membership.

  243. sorman has left

  244. Will

    Simon: I think if we do the rest well, more members will result

  245. adam

    Kev: exactly this

  246. adam

    "member" ≠ "community member"

  247. Laura

    ralphm - which goal would get your vote? Hearing what you are saying also

  248. dwd

    FWIW, I'd think that getting the membership motivated (which is effectively what "membership engagement" is) would make the other tasks somewhat easier.

  249. ralphm

    So I personally think we need to focus on providing information better, both on the website, and by having useful summits that bring in people not yet in our community

  250. dwd

    Also it's not wholly clear why you need to pick just one of each.

  251. adam

    I would additionally say that before we were to aim to increase membership or member engagement, it would be good for the board to identify what the goals of "membership" are in 2015, which may not be the same goals of membership were at the creation of the XSF.

  252. Laura

    dwd - we needed measurable goals. This was never going to be definitive (nor easy)

  253. Will

    dwd: I think there's a two-way relationship

  254. dwd has left

  255. Laura

    ralphm - so you vote for website traffic and registration for summit?

  256. dwd

    But in particular, given the website and membership engagement goals seem to have the same level of interest, why not pick both?

  257. Laura

    Because we agreed to pick one dwd - we have 2 more sections yet

  258. Laura

    Some might happen as well, but we committed to picking one from each

  259. sorman has joined

  260. Simon

    My vote is for membership engagement - imho website traffic flows out of that and is part of measuring it.

  261. dwd has left

  262. Laura

    Thank you Simon, ralphm?

  263. Will

    Simon, I think membership engagement will increase if we execute properly on the item in the next slide

  264. Laura

    We need one vote each

  265. ralphm

    Simon: membership engagement is about XSF members, the website is going to be mostly informing the community. I don't see your point.

  266. Simon

    Ralphm: members can help create the website and maintain their parts of it.

  267. dwd has left

  268. ralphm

    I don't personally care much about membership v.s. being part of the community, and I don't believe that having a 25% increase in membership (for example) will suddenly make more people want to work on the website.

  269. Laura

    ralphm - we have been over this before. We had to set measurable objectives for this excercise

  270. ralphm

    Laura: I understand how it works

  271. adam

    I am extremely hesitant to say "membership engagement" because that seems a very inwardly focused goal. I think the board unanimously agrees we need an outward focus. My hope is that we are able to engage and involve members in that focus. Putting the website in the crosshairs will drive us all to focus outward rather than inward.

  272. ralphm

    Laura: I want to make clear again what options there are, because apparently we don't believe they mean the same thing.

  273. dwd has left

  274. Laura

    adam : well said

  275. stpeter

    IMHO the ultimate measure is "how many developers are using XMPP to build applications?" - anything else is a proxy for that (which might be hard to measure)

  276. ralphm

    stpeter: indeed

  277. ralphm

    that makes me torn between website and summits

  278. Laura

    stpeter - not sure that is a goal for the Board, more the whole community

  279. bjc

    summits are hard to make for a lot of us

  280. Laura

    These are Board goals - so we can measure our success as a Board

  281. Valérian has left

  282. adam

    stpeter: could not agree more. I just see the website as our best chance of being able to measure that, given that xmpp.org is always going to be the first thing that people find when they search for "xmpp"

  283. Will

    bjc: the registrations don't have to be for physical attendence, remote is a possibility

  284. Kev

    Can I propose a new goal to consider? A binary one: Board manages to agree on goals to select. :D

  285. ralphm

    Laura: I think it should be, if you believe the XSF is a guide in the community

  286. bjc

    that's news to me. maybe i should look at the website more *ducks*

  287. Laura

    Kev - we did!

  288. stpeter

    what if we had a set of developer-focused guides on the website and measured that traffic?

  289. Kev

    Laura: No, I think you've not managed to agree yet ;)

  290. Laura

    I am amazed that this discussion is happening now

  291. Laura

    We asked the members to vote on the goals we have been working on since November, with the intention of doing this very exercise. It is not acceptable to then faff around ourselves after asking for votes from them.

  292. Will

    laura: +1

  293. Laura

    We agreed to come up with goals, vote on 1 goal per "section" and commit to achieving that.

  294. adam

    stpeter: indeed. there's an entire "learn" section focused on this in the new website.

  295. dwd has left

  296. stpeter

    I'd put my emphasis on website traffic

  297. stpeter

    that will drive us to create information that's truly helpful

  298. Will

    stpeter: so presumably that's what you voted for?

  299. adam

    (which, incidentally, we'll need to engage membership in order to create those resources ;)

  300. ralphm

    I am picking 'website' because that will ultimately drive people to summits, too

  301. dwd has left

  302. Laura

    So far, I have me, Will and adam voting for website traffic. Now we have ralphm too

  303. Simon

    Can I jump to website too :) ?

  304. Laura

    Of course!

  305. Laura

    Result: 5 votes for website

  306. Simon

    +1 website.

  307. dwd has left

  308. Laura

    I'm not trying to stifle conversation btw, but want to make sure we follow through on this activity

  309. adam

    Laura: you're doing great

  310. Laura

    Ok, next section *breathes*

  311. ralphm

    Laura: I think it is good to do the discussion bit along with it though. Context is important

  312. Simon

    Laura: part of follow through could be a metrics report as part of the board meeting.

  313. adam

    ralphm: +1 just enough discussion :)

  314. Laura


  315. Laura

    Binary goals

  316. dwd has left

  317. Laura

    There is a clear "winner" from our community votes!

  318. ralphm

    adam: good thing we haven't defined 'enough' :-D

  319. Laura

    What do we think?

  320. Will

    IoT +1 easy

  321. Laura

    Bearing in mind we have already achieved one, and in progress with another (pats everyone on the back)

  322. adam

    +1 iot

  323. Will

    (easy to decide, not to do)

  324. Laura

    +1 IOT

  325. dwd has left

  326. stpeter nods to Will

  327. ralphm

    +1 and, yes, this not going to be easy

  328. Will

    worthwhile things rarely are

  329. Laura

    Just need adam's vote, then this one does need discussion. How?!

  330. dwd has left

  331. sorman has left

  332. Laura

    Sorry, adam has voted

  333. ralphm

    Laura: that's another meeting, right?

  334. Laura

    dwd - do we have 5 for IOT?

  335. Laura

    ralphm - definately.

  336. adam

    +1 to another meeting on this topic

  337. dwd

    I see no Simon vote?

  338. Simon


  339. adam


  340. adam

    -O0R5 42Q1 m;.'/

  341. adam


  342. Laura

    Fabulous. I have an AOB about a date for this meeting noted

  343. adam

    excuse me

  344. dwd


  345. adam

    just about spilled my glass of water on my keys

  346. ralphm


  347. Laura

    ha ha!

  348. daurnimator

    adam, Gesundheit

  349. Laura

    Ok, final one…

  350. Laura

    Soft goals

  351. adam

    I think the leading two options should be bundled together.

  352. dwd has left

  353. Laura

    adam - agree. How could we phrase this?

  354. adam

    benefits of federation is one of the points of xmpp as leading realtime messaging protocol.

  355. adam

    just call federation a subpoint of positioning

  356. Laura

    I would support this - what do others think?

  357. ralphm

    the other two as well, arguably

  358. adam


  359. dwd has left

  360. dwd

    FWIW, I'd have thought federation was a USP of sorts for positioning XMPP.

  361. ralphm

    so, I am going to go with positioning XMPP, keeping the others as important aspects of that goal

  362. adam

    +1 to that read on this

  363. Will

    agree with ralphm

  364. dwd

    But I took the item to be referring to espousing the benefits of federation over walled-garden XMPP services.

  365. ralphm

    dwd: ok, interesting

  366. dwd has left

  367. dwd

    (That is, trying to push the benefits of federation to the HipCHats and Slacks of this world)

  368. Kev

    That's how I read it.

  369. Simon

    I'm all for federation but too often I see this turned into an evangelical point rather than a listening to what a developer really needs for *their* project. For that reason I'm voting on the overall positioning of XMPP.

  370. dwd

    Simon, And also, I'm interested in what the user wants as well as the developer.

  371. Laura

    My vote - positioning - as per ralphm comment

  372. ralphm

    dwd, Kev: I do agree that is an important thing to advocate

  373. Laura

    dwd - vote count for soft goals?

  374. dwd

    Laura, I've no idea. :-) Want to ask for clear votes on positioning?

  375. ralphm

    all for positioning

  376. Laura

    positioning from me

  377. Simon

    +1 positioning.

  378. Will


  379. ralphm

    as I read the history here

  380. adam


  381. ralphm


  382. ralphm

    +1, too

  383. Laura

    ha ha - votes are cast - we have results!

  384. Laura

    I will turn this into a blog post, which I will share with the Board first

  385. Laura

    If that's ok?

  386. Simon

    Thanks for running this Laura!

  387. adam

    Yes, thank you, Laura.

  388. Laura

    Sorry for pushing for votes, but I didn't want us to get too side tracked

  389. Will

    sounds good Laura, now all we have to do is figure out how to do these things. easy right?

  390. Laura

    ha ha - i need wine.

  391. dwd waves an AOB flag

  392. stpeter

    Laura wins the Internet

  393. Laura

    Does anyone have any AOB's?

  394. Simon

    wine was a vote option? How did I miss that.

  395. Laura

    dwd - so impatient

  396. Kev

    Just noting that the GSoC application is in (thanks to Laura for proofreading).

  397. dwd

    The communications mail - I think Kurt had a really valid point about how Officers fit in.

  398. Kev

    Now we wait to see if we get accepted.

  399. Laura

    dwd - that is for next week - we gave everyone 2 weeks to comment

  400. stpeter

    huh I thought I had an AOB but now I don't remember what it was

  401. Laura

    But his comment has been noted for discussion

  402. dwd

    As written, Alex can't announce the voting stuff without running it past the Board first.

  403. Laura

    Noted dwd

  404. Laura

    I have 2 AOB's.

  405. Laura

    1) Do we need a whole meeting (like this one) to discuss the IOt strategy?

  406. ralphm

    I have another AOB: anyone the XSF owes money to (for Summits 15 and 17), please send invoices to stpeter

  407. dwd

    Laura, Yeah, but worth joining that thread to get a conversation going.

  408. stpeter

    ralphm: thanks, yes

  409. dwd has left

  410. Laura

    ralphm just answered my second AOB - has Will got his money back

  411. adam

    It might be good to get input from the council and membership on IoT before having a board discussion about that.

  412. Laura

    adam - agree

  413. ralphm

    stpeter will collect all the receipts and stuff, look at the incoming money for sponsorship and work out the best money flows

  414. Laura

    Maybe we can discuss next week, about how to start? as part of the agenda

  415. adam

    Perhaps we create a questionnaire or something.

  416. adam

    Sounds good to me, Laura.

  417. Laura

    Awesome. Back to agenda items next week - same time same same place?

  418. adam


  419. ralphm

    Kev: is there a Council meeting this week?

  420. dwd has left

  421. Kev

    No-one has followed up on me saying I can't make it and for a volunteer to chair it, so no.

  422. ralphm


  423. dwd

    Kev, Oh, I'll chair if you want. Been away so hadn't replied yet.

  424. ralphm

    Can someone update the XSF calendar with proper Board meeting entries?

  425. dwd has left

  426. stpeter

    ralphm: sure - every Monday at this time?

  427. dwd has left

  428. ralphm

    yes, until EU timezone changeover

  429. waqas has joined

  430. stpeter

    damn timezones

  431. dwd

    ralphm, The EU TZ change lag might well make Adam really uncomfortable. I forget which way it runs.

  432. ralphm

    stpeter: DST starts on 29 March

  433. Laura

    Right, calling it a day there. same time same place.

  434. Laura

    Next week

  435. Laura

    *bangs gavel*

  436. stpeter

    big thanks to Laura!

  437. tim@boese-ban.de has joined

  438. adam

    dwd: I'm good with the early side of this meeting :)

  439. Kev

    dwd: Ah, I just sent a mail calling it off.

  440. ralphm

    dwd: In fact the US goes on March 8

  441. dwd has left

  442. dwd

    Kev, Replied. Sorry.

  443. adam

    when does EU?

  444. ralphm

    dwd: at which point the diff is one hour less

  445. ralphm

    adam: March 29

  446. stpeter notes that he is finishing up several large non-XMPP projects and wil soon have more time for XSF matters

  447. dwd has left

  448. adam

    have a good week, everyone. :)

  449. adam has left

  450. ralphm

    stpeter: awesome work on those IETF thingies

  451. dwd has left

  452. stpeter

    ralphm: yeah, I'm pushing to finish all of these documents in the new few months: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search/?name=&activedrafts=on&sort=&by=author&author=Saint-Andre

  453. stpeter

    and I have learned to say no to IETF people :)

  454. ralphm


  455. dwd has left

  456. dwd has left

  457. stpeter pokes some working group chairs about last calls :-)

  458. Valérian has joined

  459. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  460. tim@boese-ban.de has joined

  461. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  462. tim@boese-ban.de has joined

  463. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  464. tim@boese-ban.de has joined

  465. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  466. tim@boese-ban.de has joined

  467. dwd has left

  468. Lloyd has left

  469. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  470. tim@boese-ban.de has joined

  471. Laura has left

  472. daniel has joined

  473. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  474. tim@boese-ban.de has joined

  475. dwd has left

  476. dwd has left

  477. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  478. tim@boese-ban.de has joined

  479. bjc has left

  480. bjc has joined

  481. dwd has left

  482. dwd has left

  483. dwd has left

  484. dwd has left

  485. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  486. tim@boese-ban.de has joined

  487. Lance has joined

  488. dwd has left

  489. waqas has left

  490. waqas has joined

  491. dwd has left

  492. Will has left

  493. dwd has left

  494. Simon has left

  495. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  496. tim@boese-ban.de has joined

  497. dwd has left

  498. dwd has left

  499. dwd has left

  500. dwd has left

  501. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  502. tim@boese-ban.de has joined

  503. dwd has left

  504. dwd has left

  505. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  506. tim@boese-ban.de has joined

  507. dwd has left

  508. dwd has left

  509. dwd has left

  510. daniel has joined

  511. Tobias has joined

  512. daniel has joined

  513. dwd has left

  514. daniel has left

  515. daniel has joined

  516. dwd has left

  517. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  518. tim@boese-ban.de has joined

  519. dwd has left

  520. Kev

    "Why is this message in Spam? It's similar to messages that were detected by our spam filters. Learn more"

  521. Kev

    There we go, Google has spoken on the subject of whether Laura or Dave's minutes are better :D

  522. ralphm


  523. dwd has left

  524. ralphm

    I suppose it is no accident I am coloured orange.

  525. dwd has left

  526. ralphm

    the diff between adam, stpeter and bjc is a bit too subtle

  527. bjc

    i am nothing like them!

  528. Kev

    ralphm: Too much fake tan.

  529. ralphm has left

  530. ralphm has left

  531. ralphm has left

  532. ralphm has left

  533. ralphm has left

  534. Kev has left

  535. ralphm has left

  536. dwd has left

  537. Kev has joined

  538. dwd has left

  539. dwd has left

  540. goffi has left

  541. ralphm has left

  542. dwd has left

  543. dwd has left

  544. bjc has left

  545. bjc has joined

  546. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  547. dwd has left

  548. dwd has left

  549. dwd has left

  550. dwd has left

  551. dwd has left

  552. dwd has left

  553. dwd has left

  554. Alex has left

  555. dwd has left

  556. tim@boese-ban.de has joined

  557. Zash has joined

  558. dwd has left

  559. dwd has left

  560. sorman has joined

  561. dwd has left

  562. sorman has left

  563. dwd has left

  564. Santiago26 has joined

  565. Alex has joined

  566. dwd has left

  567. dwd has left

  568. Santiago26 has left

  569. Santiago26 has joined

  570. dwd has left

  571. dwd has left

  572. dwd has left

  573. dwd has left

  574. dwd has left

  575. dwd has left

  576. Santiago26 has left

  577. dwd has left

  578. Santiago26 has joined

  579. edhelas has joined

  580. dwd has left

  581. waqas has left

  582. dwd has left

  583. dwd has left

  584. waqas has joined

  585. dwd has left

  586. Santiago26 has left

  587. dwd has left

  588. Santiago26 has joined

  589. dwd has left

  590. dwd has left

  591. Flow has left

  592. sorman has joined

  593. dwd has left

  594. dwd has left

  595. dwd has left

  596. Santiago26 has left

  597. waqas has left

  598. Santiago26 has joined

  599. waqas has joined

  600. dwd

    TBH, I didn't particularly like the colours, but generally highlighting the names was interesting.

  601. dwd

    ralphm, Laura said she picked Orange for you carefully, as well as Pink for herself. I didn't really take notice of the other colours she used.

  602. waqas has left

  603. ralphm

    dwd: right, but three greens, just different by bold, italic, and normal...

  604. dwd

    Yeah. I was sort of experimenting with distinguishing between floor and Board, and then worried over ex-officio, and...

  605. dwd

    Also nobody's noticed that I used a different colour for myself each time. :-)

  606. Santiago26 has left

  607. Santiago26 has joined

  608. dwd has left

  609. dwd has left

  610. Santiago26 has left

  611. sorman has left

  612. Laura has joined

  613. dwd has left

  614. sorman has joined

  615. waqas has joined

  616. sorman has left

  617. dwd has left

  618. dwd has left

  619. sorman has joined

  620. sorman has left

  621. dwd has left

  622. sorman has joined

  623. sorman has left

  624. sorman has joined

  625. sorman has left

  626. dwd has left

  627. sorman has joined

  628. dwd has left

  629. Valérian has left

  630. dwd has left

  631. sorman has left

  632. Laura has left

  633. Laura has joined

  634. dwd has left

  635. Lance has joined

  636. dwd has left

  637. sorman has joined

  638. edhelas has left

  639. dwd has left

  640. edhelas has joined

  641. dwd has left

  642. winfried has joined

  643. dwd has left

  644. dwd has left

  645. dwd has left

  646. Lance has joined

  647. dwd has left

  648. Laura has left

  649. dwd has left

  650. Laura has joined

  651. dwd has left

  652. dwd has left

  653. Laura has left

  654. dwd has left

  655. dwd has left

  656. dwd has left

  657. dwd has left

  658. daniel has joined

  659. Alex has left

  660. dwd has left

  661. dwd has left

  662. dwd has left

  663. edhelas has left

  664. Lance has joined

  665. dwd has left

  666. dwd has left

  667. dwd has left

  668. dwd has left

  669. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  670. dwd has left

  671. dwd has left

  672. dwd has left

  673. dwd has left

  674. dwd has left

  675. sorman has left

  676. dwd has left

  677. Maranda has joined

  678. Lance has joined

  679. dwd has left

  680. Lance has joined

  681. Maranda has joined

  682. dwd has left

  683. dwd has left

  684. Neustradamus has left

  685. dwd has left

  686. dwd has left

  687. Lance has joined

  688. dwd

    stpeter, Out of curiosity, how many redirects is sensible in POSH? I'm struggling to think of any useful case involving more than 3, and I'm somewhat pulling even that figure out of thin air.

  689. Flow has left

  690. stpeter

    actually I think the original HTTP spec provided good advice by saying 5

  691. dwd has left

  692. stpeter

    "no one should ever need more than 5 redirects"

  693. dwd has left

  694. bjc

    i'll be sure to tell the people who use bit.ly on twitter =P

  695. bjc

    stupid t.co

  696. bjc

    hell, stupid url shorteners

  697. stpeter


  698. stpeter

    strangely, even RFC 2616 changed that bit about 5 redirects to "watch out for infinite redirection loops" - so the hard limit is old stuff

  699. dwd has left

  700. bjc

    until you're on a crappy mobile connection and each redirect takes a few seconds or breaks at some point in the middle

  701. intosi

    Purty minutes!

  702. dwd

    In fairness, we're no longer considering URL shortners in POSH, so I'd imagine - hope - most of the redirects would go away.

  703. bjc

    where are they? i only see up to 2014-11-17 in http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/meeting-minutes/

  704. dwd

    bjc, Board minutes go to the Members list.

  705. intosi


  706. bjc


  707. dwd

    bjc, The archives of that list are public if you want to go see your name in lights.

  708. intosi

    They are purtier when rendered in HTML.

  709. bjc

    i'm good, thanks =)

  710. dwd has left

  711. dwd has left

  712. dwd has left

  713. winfried has left

  714. intosi wonders why Dave didn't reserve red for Kev. Welsh dragon and such.

  715. dwd has left

  716. dwd has left

  717. Lance has joined

  718. dwd

    I only copied Laura's self-assigned pink and Ralph's orange.

  719. dwd

    I don't think I'll do colours again, they're really too much faff.

  720. MattJ

    It looks like the minutes should be hosted on GeoCities

  721. dwd has left

  722. dwd


  723. Maranda has joined

  724. dwd

    I did actually consider looking at putting an animated GIF in or something, before deciding that was taking things way too far.

  725. bjc

    <blink>there's no such thing as too far</blink>

  726. dwd

    bjc, <marquee>I think you'll find there is</marquee>

  727. dwd

    Wow. Apparently that element is still supported by all major browsers.

  728. dwd has left

  729. waqas

    I have heard complaints that you can't send GIFs in most XMPP clients

  730. Maranda

    Oh noes! What a tragedy, no animated GIFs!

  731. sorman has joined

  732. waqas

    Lance: That reminds me, weren't you working on specs around file sharing (as opposed to file sending), or was that someone else?

  733. dwd has left

  734. waqas

    Maranda: http://i.imgur.com/51mbxT9.gif

  735. Lance

    Yes. ran into some weird issues though

  736. waqas


  737. Lance

    but i think with mam-style stuff they might be fixable

  738. Lance

    its large results for file shares

  739. Lance

    eg, large nested directories

  740. Lance

    would either require an initial sharing of a directory listing file, or lots and lots of disco queries

  741. Maranda

    Awww waqas

  742. Lance

    and also ended up wanting to implement file shares as pubsub, but that would require client-side pubsub servces

  743. dwd has left

  744. Maranda


  745. dwd has left

  746. waqas

    Lance: Typically fire-sharing is tied to upload-file-to-server in most non-XMPP clients that support such a thing

  747. waqas

    I wonder if that's something we should have a spec for

  748. waqas

    But regardless of where the files exist, we are roughly talking about webdav over XMPP or what? :P

  749. ralphm

    padoom tish

  750. waqas

    ralphm: Indeed ;)

  751. dwd

    Given there's specs about for non-walled-garden cloud storage, should we be just working with that instead?

  752. Maranda


  753. dwd has left

  754. dwd has left

  755. dwd has left

  756. Lance

    oh, for that case, sure. upload to somewhere via existing standards. send the url like you would any other cat gif. and the receiving client can use oembed to grab a preview & insert into the chat. i would use mep to store references to files associated with a muc if you wanted something slack-ish

  757. puch has joined

  758. sorman has left

  759. puch

    that seems incompatible with crypto

  760. ralphm

    Lance: oembed is kinda nice

  761. dwd has left

  762. ralphm

    Lance: I use it in ikdisplay

  763. dwd has left

  764. waqas

    It would be useful to have some specs covering this area, and even if we are reusing non-XSF standards, something documenting that, so we get interop.

  765. edhelas has left

  766. Maranda has left

  767. Maranda has joined

  768. Maranda has left

  769. Maranda has joined

  770. Maranda has left

  771. Santiago26 has joined

  772. Tobias has left

  773. Santiago26 has left

  774. dwd has left

  775. dwd has left

  776. Zash has left

  777. puch has left

  778. Neustradamus has joined

  779. Jef has joined

  780. puch has joined

  781. dwd has left

  782. stpeter has left

  783. SamWhited has left

  784. SamWhited has joined

  785. dwd has left