-
daurnimator
http://blog.fastmail.com/2015/11/16/shutting-down-our-xmpp-chat-service/ :(
-
fippo
darunimator: yeah. I still <3 rob. mostly for his work on jabberd2 and his "dummies guide to digest-md5"
-
ralphm
Some discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10572597
-
daniel
Btw is the fastmail blog being slashdotted right now or is it just my shitty Vietnamese provider having an issue with that?
-
Ge0rG
daniel: sounds like its your ISP
-
Ge0rG
loaded in <1s here
-
daniel
Ge0rG: OK thanks
-
Ge0rG
and again people are spreading FUD about XMPP....
-
daniel
if I remember correctly from what users told me fastmail just lacked a lot of features. so no surprise users are migrating to other services
-
Ge0rG
yeah, they didn't keep up-to-date
-
Ge0rG
that will happen to yax.im one day as well, unless I start supporting all the things needed by conversations, but not by yaxim ;)
-
arune
Ge0rG: do you follow the stats on your server of the usage yaxim vs conversations vs xabber?
-
Ge0rG
arune: nope. I might do a version query of all online clients once again.
-
goffi
hi
-
Ge0rG
hi goffi
-
ralphm
Ironic that this news brings about more tweets than the supposed number of users of FastMail's XMPP service.
-
Link Mauve
I know one of them.
-
Ge0rG
one of the twitterers?
-
Link Mauve
One of the FastMail XMPP users.
-
Link Mauve
He stopped self-hosting because he wanted a service that would last, without having to take care of it.
-
Ge0rG
and that's what he get.
-
ralphm
I don't blame FastMail for stopping support for their service if they have that low number of users
-
Flow
now with prosody-modules in debian, self hosting a prosody should be even easier
-
Flow
e.g. for me it means nearly zero maintenance overhead, just an "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" once in a while (and I'm even considering automating it)
-
Zash
There are 9 modules in that package...
-
Ge0rG
make it moar!
-
Zash
8 actually
-
Zash
and two which enable support for carbons v0 and I have no idea why they included that
-
MattJ
File bugs
-
Zash
[...] the Debian package only includes modules that have been tested and used by the maintainers of the package. Please open a bug against the package with wish-list priority to request the addition of extra modules.
-
mathieui
“XMPP is overcomplicated, solving nothing IRC can't solve already ( imho, of course )” the things find myself reading…
-
Zash
mathieui: Let me introduce you to the only useful thing on Twitter: https://twitter.com/AvoidComments
-
foss81405971
Hehehe. People rabidly defend their old haunts. IRC gives us such great things like *.net *.split.
-
Kevish
IRC has a lot going for it, and you can't avoid netsplits if you want the kind of model they're dealing with (continuing to operate in the face of network partitioning).
-
mathieui
what it has going for it is userbase
-
Zash
mathieui, and that's the only thing that really counts..
-
foss81405971
Well, I haven't read the whole batch of RFCs, but understand about redundant links, and mesh networking. As far as userbase, the trolls on the "help" forums, are more guttural, and just what you'd suspect, not higher level, with more knowledge, as on newer protocols. For me, it's the WHOM that is the userbase.
-
Zash
Having read the IRC RFC(s?), I much prefer the XMPP ones.
-
foss81405971
If you doubt me, go asking about XMPP to IRC gateways, on IRC "help" forums. You'll wish you had NOT! BTW, methinks that generally, due to "connections per IP" rules, unless it's worked out with IRCops, et al, one would only be able to have their own private XMPP to IRC gateway. I've seen public servers with such, but not been able to unlock the powers which, might just be abandonware.
-
Flow
MattJ: What about my stanza ids in MAM patch? Just asking for the current state. Blocking things like this makes it hard to advance :(
-
MattJ
Flow, sorry, I've been away, and have had computer issues - I'm pretty much back now, and MAM is one of my current top priorities
-
Flow
MattJ: Glad to year. Let me know if you need anything. You said in your github comment there where some issues but didn't mentioned them. May I ask which issues you see with the current patch?
-
Zash
Github discussions >:(
-
Flow
Zash: Hate em too, but someone though it would be a good idea to use github
- Flow thinks xmpp.org should replace the MLs with discourse (which can be also used like MLs)
-
Flow
And maybe something like liquid feedback to get a sense on what the community thinks and to figure out what the consensus is
-
ralphm
I think we already have plenty ways to figure out what the community thinks
-
ralphm
And I don't think discussion issues are easily solved by adding/changing technology
-
Flow
ralphm: I don't that is true. This is just like saying e.g. changing your VCS from CVS to git wouldn't be beneficial for your project.
-
Flow
*don't think
-
Flow
It's hard to get an overview of the different opinions on e.g. "deprecating X" threads
-
Kevish
Don't you just read the thread?
-
Flow
especially if those threads continue for a long time
-
Flow
Kevish: Sure, but I don't remember everything from the thread if I look at it X weeks later
-
Flow
I had to re read everything
-
Kevish
Until someone decides to break the thread for some daft reason, as happened with IBR, but people can post in inappropriate threads on a forum too.
-
Flow
Kevish: Not as easily in e.g. discourse as it would be in some mail clients
-
Kevish
Surely the same is true with a forum that you need to read all the posts in a thread?
-
Flow
Kevish: For that I would use a liquid feedback system for
-
Flow
which gives you a good overview on what a community thinks
-
Flow
but still provides the community to figure out different solutions and change existing ones
-
Flow
until consensus is reached
-
Flow
(well until hopefully consensus is reached)
-
Zash
Or we could meet in a room and yell at each other until there is concensus :)
-
Flow
old school :)
-
Zash
I know this group that has their bi-annual member meetings on a web forum.
-
Zash
It's not very good.
-
SamWhited
Juser is moderated? Can I get added as a member or something by whomever the mod on that is?
-
Kevish
Should just be able to join it, I think.
-
SamWhited
I'm subscribed, but my messages are still being moderated, I think. Maybe there's another step.
-
SamWhited
I don't think I've ever actually posted before...
-
Zash
Maybe it just takes a while to iterate over the subscribers
-
SamWhited
I've been subscribed for a long time; just never posted.
-
Laura
hey folks
-
simon
hey laura.
-
Laura
Ok, last one! Who do we have today?
- adam waves
-
Laura
Hey adam and simon
-
Laura
Any raplhm or Will?
-
Will
Will here
-
stpeter
hiya
-
Laura
Ok, well no Ralphm but let's start!
-
Laura
Hi stpeter
-
Laura
*bangs gavel* Let’s start the meeting! Ok, last meeting of this Board, so a slightly different format: Agenda for today 1. Roll call and agenda agreement 2. Website - are we ready 3. Review commitment list from last time 4. Review items for discussion 5. AOB
-
Will
+1 on agenda ;-)
-
stpeter
I think ralphm might be online-ish because I've received a few emails from him so far today
-
Laura
Ha! Item #1 is covered - so let's move on
-
Bunneh
Laura: HTTP Error 404 :(
-
Laura
Bunneh ?
-
Laura
Item #2 Website!
-
Bunneh
Laura: HTTP Error 404 :(
-
Laura
simon / adam?
-
Zash
Feel free to kick Bunneh
-
stpeter
will do
-
simon
Well I spent a bunch of time getting the building working and getting the XEP building nicely integreated. We’re looking pretty good now although as winifried mentioned we need to fix something to get the right css files referenced.
-
Laura
Ok, sounds like progress!
-
stpeter
which are the right CSS files?
-
simon
missing css here: http://new.xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0079.html
-
simon
discussion here: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/91#issuecomment-157023684
-
stpeter
I see <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="../xmpp.css" /><link href="../prettify.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet" />
-
stpeter
those would be in the root directory
-
stpeter
but maybe they are elsewhere?
-
adam
still not sure exactly what's needed here
-
simon
peter: since they are XEP specific, it would be nicer to have them in /extensions and away from clashes with existing content.
-
stpeter
sure we can do that
-
simon
it’s a quick fix…
-
stpeter
yep
-
simon
but the good thing is that we have a complete build now for website + xeps ready to be published.
-
Laura
What does this mean for Go-Live? A few more days to tidy up?
-
Kevish
I did a (very little) looking at https for github pages, and it doesn't seem to be a thing, so I think we need to have a discussion with iteam about self-hosting (or someone telling me I'm wrong). As long as someone gives me reasonable notice I'll try to help with that.
-
simon
basically the infrastructure team can sync from https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/tree/gh-pages to the site. (Personally I’d leave it on github pages rather than create the work of self-hosting. Their call)
-
adam
I dont think we should let missing css on these pages keep us from going live. the content is readable and clear on these documents; I hadn't even recalled those pages *had* css until looking back at the originals justn ow
-
simon
adam +1
-
Kevish
simon: Can you get a mail sent to me at my work address with what needs doing, and I'll see what I can arrange?
-
Will
yup, just push the button. we can leave fixing the small things to the next lot ;-)
-
simon
Gory build details: https://travis-ci.org/xsf/xmpp.org
-
simon
kev: just git clone from the gh_pages branch on the repo.
-
simon
the builds are always published back to that.
-
stpeter
are we still using prettify.js or shall I remove references to that from the build scripts?
-
simon
peter - it’s called in some of the xep pages so I’d leave it there.
-
stpeter
ok
-
SamWhited
The syntax highlighting breaks if you don't have it, IIRC
-
SamWhited
on XML examples
-
simon
Kev: either pull to the webroot on your server or DNS change + add a https:// reverse proxy.
-
Laura
Ok, sounds like more discussion needed. Can we continue this chat after the Board?
-
Kevish
simon: Is it ok to just go live if I can arrange that, or do I need to wait?
-
simon
Thanks hugely to winifried for helping with the XEP build process.
-
simon
Just go live.
-
Kevish
OK, I'll try to find time.
-
simon
“move fast and break things” :)
-
simon
peter: are you looking at the css path issue or should I?
-
Laura
Ok, let's draw a line guys - we do have a few things left to discuss and the Board meeting shouldn't be for all this working out
-
stpeter
https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/100 for the CSS files
-
Laura
#3 Commitment from last week
-
ralphm
hi
-
Laura
Simon - did you manage to progress with Treasurer role?
-
Laura
Hi ralphm
-
simon
laura: yes…
-
simon
let me find the answer.
-
simon
“I would if there was insurance.”
-
Laura
What does this mean?
-
simon
Jonathan Siegler would help with treasury role stuff if there was insurance. Just got the email and haven’t discussed more.
-
simon
Sorry, not super helpful.
-
Laura
What kind of insurance?
-
simon
I’m replying to find out… but I woudn’t persue it if we need insurance.
-
stpeter
some foundations have insurance shielding officers from liability
-
Kevish
Such insurance seems a reasonable thing to me.
-
stpeter
speaking of treasurers I will reimburse Ralph for some expenses this week
-
Laura
Ahh ok. Thanks Simon - we can always hand this to the "next Board" if needed
-
stpeter
Kevish: it might be worth investigating, yes
-
Laura
#4 Items for discussion
-
stpeter
I have never looked into it
-
simon
laura: /me is happy to throw this over the wall :)
-
Laura
The website, obviously, is being discussed
-
Laura
And New-Board will need to discuss FOSDEM and Summit (not really one for us to lead on)
-
stpeter
yep
-
Laura
#5 AOBs
-
Laura
Anyone?
-
Laura
I have 1, but happy to hear others first
-
Kevish
Thanks to Board for their service this term.
-
stpeter
indeed!
-
Laura
Ah, thanks Kvish
-
Will
thanks to adam/simon in particular for website efforts
-
Laura
New name.
-
stpeter
I have no AOBs
-
Laura
Yes, massive hats to them!
-
Kevish
Indeed, webiset goodness, etc.
-
simon
Still on the website: there’s many small website tasks that need some tech love at https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues
-
ralphm
Indeed, thanks all for another year
-
Laura
My AOB - did the Board see my email about the GSoC mentors and money?
-
stpeter
simon: I'll put some more time into those issues during the evenings this week
-
ralphm
Laura: I did. If the discussed concerns are resolved, let's go ahead
-
simon
kev: does iteam look after the jdev muc too?
-
Kevish
Laura: If I'd misunderstood and those were necessary expenses to get to the summit for the required number of days, we should pay them.
-
Kevish
(from the peanut gallery)
-
ralphm
simon: jabber.org is an independent thing
-
Will
re GSoC, I'm OK with re-imbursing
-
Laura
Is everyone happy for us to reimburse the GSoC mentors, as per the email?
-
ralphm
with coincidently similar people looking after it
-
Laura
That's me, ralphm and Will saying yes
-
Laura
Simon / adam - any comment?
-
Kevish
And Kev as GSoC admin ;)
-
Laura
Yes, and you Kevish
-
simon
+1 on reimbursing.
-
adam
+1 yes
-
Laura
Awesome guys.
-
Laura
I will let them know
-
Laura
And that folks, is that.
-
Kevish
Speaking of which, we should get a report out of them for what happened at the summit.
-
ralphm
simon: but to be clear, jabber.org is not XSF
-
Laura
Yes, agree Kevish
-
simon
we have an issue https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/73 that needs some love from them.
-
Laura
I think's it's a wrap (before website chat continues!)
-
ralphm
simon: yes, intosi and Kev should look into that
-
Laura
Thank you all, for an amazing year!
-
Laura
*bangs gavel*
-
ralphm
Laura: and thank you for chairing again
-
Will
thank you
-
simon
thanks everyone
-
adam
yes, thanks indeed, everyone
- adam waves
-
Laura
Is it results of new Board on Wednesday?
-
ralphm
Laura: hmm?
-
stpeter
Laura: yes, or Tuesday I think - the meeting is tomorrow, no?
-
ralphm
tomorrow
-
Laura
Hence the question…
-
Laura
Ah good.
-
stpeter
Laura: thanks so much for chairing!
-
Laura
I have really enjoyed it - thank you all for putting up with me!
-
SamWhited
Laura++; excellent job all!
-
stpeter
:)
-
stpeter
OK I need to run off and do some blizzard prep here, bbiab
-
Zash
Thanks for boarding yall
-
stpeter
where are we working on website coordination BTW?
-
simon
I’m here if anyone wants to coordinate?