XSF Discussion - 2016-01-06

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  109. ralphm hey you, yes, you!
  110. ralphm Why haven't you signed up for the XMPP Summit yet?
  111. ralphm http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_19
  112. winfried hey, I have signed up!
  113. dwd http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/mix.html
  114. goffi hi
  115. goffi it the mix proposal the MUC2 people are talking about for a while ?
  116. Kev Yes.
  117. goffi oki cool
  118. goffi it's good to have published it before summit
  119. daniel Should this be put on the official agenda for the summit?
  120. mathieui when do we get https & hsts on xmpp.org? :)
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  123. dwd mathieui, HTTPS works; I'm not sure HSTS would be a universal benefit.
  124. goffi dwd: have you seen my email on standard ? The diff tool is bugged in HTTPS
  125. dwd mathieui, I mean, https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/mix.html works fine, but there is a slight risk that banning http entirely might lead to us preventing some access. OTOH, we should probably switch to using the HTTPS URI throughout.
  126. dwd goffi, Ah, OK. That's a problem we should certainly address, then.
  127. goffi it's probably not a big deal, but I'm not the only one with HTTPS eveywhere
  128. mathieui dwd, well, for the wiki it would probably be
  129. dwd goffi, I think it's that the stylesheet is accessed over HTTP, so maybe it's not loaded for security reasons?
  130. Holger goffi: PubSub without MAM doesn't just miss a search feature but also result set paging à la XEP-0059, no?
  131. xnyhps JS on the diff pages is blocked as it's mixed content.
  132. mathieui (I mean, wiki.xmpp.org doesn’t have a valid-matching certificate)
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  135. winfried dwd: are you planning to come to Summit 19 / Fosdem?
  136. winfried and are there any Yetis coming over this year?
  137. dwd Yes. Got at least one FOSDEM talk.
  138. dwd And I don't know of any, yet.
  139. winfried really would like to have a chat with some of the ppl behind talky.io...
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  144. fippo winfried: talk to lance
  145. fippo but he isn't coming
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  147. winfried OK, will do
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  156. goffi dwd: maybe, both chromium and iceweasel don't work with https diff
  157. goffi Holger: XEP-0059 is mentionned in XEP-0060
  158. goffi we can use it without MAM
  159. Holger "Oh!" Nice.
  160. goffi we do actually in our static blog: https://libervia.org/blog/salut-a-toi
  161. goffi RSM is used for the "get older post" link
  162. goffi oups this one has just one post, this one has more: https://libervia.org/blog/goffi
  163. goffi s/"get older post"/"older messages"
  164. Holger XEP-0060 keeps including things I could swear it didn't include last time I read it!
  165. dwd Holger, It recursively includes itself.
  166. dwd Holger, Pubsub all the way down.
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  168. Holger :-)
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  174. ralphm fippo: and you?
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  176. dwd ralphm, fippo isn't a Yeti anymore.
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  182. intosi Holger: having worked with 60 for a long time, I know the feeling ;)
  183. Zash So it's in some kind of superposition and every time you observe it it collapses into a slightly different document?
  184. intosi Exactly that. Depends on the reason why you're observing it, even.
  185. Zash Which reminds me, how much dust are the paper towers we cut it up into under now? :)
  186. intosi ralphm?
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  192. ralphm dwd: I know this, still would like to have him there
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  194. ralphm Zash: still in the envelopes, so no dust
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  208. dwd It's nice to have an argument with fippo on standards@ again. Brings back happy memories. :-)
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  210. MattJ :)
  211. stpeter hehehe
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  214. moparisthebest a new pgp xep, I like
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  221. Laura Getting the Trello Board ready for the first Board meeting of 2016: https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
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  223. stpeter thanks Laura!
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  228. bear laura - I have to be in another meeting in 5 minutes so I will be lurking - the website should be ready this week after I meet with the iteam to give them (or install) the redirects I almost have finished. apologies for the very last minute update.
  229. Kev bear: Thanks for doing the work. I'll try to do whatever's needful when you're ready.
  230. bear kev - no worries, it's going to be a file that can be included into an nginx config
  231. Laura Thanks Bear
  232. bear (as that is how i'm testing it)
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  234. Laura Ok folks, do we have anyone else from the Board here?
  235. dwd Yup.
  236. dwd ralphm ?
  237. ralphm I'm here
  238. Laura Great, that's enough to kick off!
  239. Laura *bangs gavel* Let’s start the meeting!
  240. Laura Agenda, which as always is driven from Trello: https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings 1. Topics for decision 2. Review commitment list (what did people commit to do at the last meeting, and what is the progress ) 3. Review items for discussion (for post-meeting conversation/discussion) 4. AOB 5. Time and date of next
  241. Laura 1. Topics…
  242. Laura I can see 2 - the first of which Bear has just updated us on (the website - for minute purposes - it's nearly there. Bear is just finishing the redirects)
  243. dwd The Summit needs a load of decisions and actions, I think.
  244. Laura The other… the summit. ralphm - do you need anything from the Board on this?
  245. dwd ralphm, You need a decision on the van hire, as usual?
  246. Laura Do we need to agree an overall budget?
  247. Laura Instead of individual asks?
  248. dwd That also works. Can we remember last year's budget?
  249. stpeter Laura: I have not looked into D&O insurance yet, so I have nothing to report
  250. Laura Thanks Peter - not wuite there yet but I will take hat note
  251. Laura dwd - I am not aware of what the budget was. ralphm or stpeter?
  252. dwd OK. So let's assume we pick a working budget of €1500. I think that should cover the dinner, lunch costs, dinner transport, etc quite easily, and we should recover at least some of that via remaining hoody sales, sponsorship, etc.
  253. Kev Although I think a later item might affect that.
  254. Laura I;m not sure anyone else is actually here dwd!
  255. Laura But I would prefer to approve a budget, rather than each expense
  256. dwd Kev, Ah, true.
  257. bear i'm +1 to having the baseline budget be equal to last years as a start
  258. ralphm I never looked at the full budget
  259. ralphm I assume dwd's estimate is valid
  260. Laura I wonder if stpeter can shine a light?
  261. dwd bear, I've no immediate record of last year's to hand. But 2012 costs were €4,620 back when we splurged on busses and pizza, and includes a stock of t-shirts.
  262. dwd Actually, I have 2013 to hand.
  263. dwd Which totalled about 3k including beanbags, t-shirts, and a bus trip.
  264. dwd I think we did last year in less.
  265. dwd No, that's 2014, not 2013.
  266. Laura Ok, based on that - are the Board happy to approve an initial budget of €1,500for the Summit, which we can review as we go?
  267. dwd But anyway, I think €1,500 is a reasonable starter budget.
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  269. bear +1
  270. Laura dwd / ralphm ?
  271. dwd However, I'd like to suggest we accept requests to subsidize attendance in return for volunteering effort - for example, for taking minutes for the Summit. That'd be in addition to this budget. I'm thinking primarily students and similar.
  272. dwd Oh, +1 to that starter budget.
  273. Laura That's 3 votes, so we have a majority. Initial budget of €1,500 approved.
  274. Laura What else is on the summit list?
  275. dwd Booking dinner, Cisco offices, transport to dinner, subsidizing people if we want to.
  276. dwd Oh and merchandise if we want it.
  277. Laura Do we have ralphm here or has he been pulled away? I know he usually coordinates things?
  278. ralphm +1
  279. ralphm I have arranged cisco offices as the summit venue
  280. Laura Oh good!
  281. ralphm i.e. Chris has said this should be ok
  282. ralphm I will also be receiving a batch of stickers
  283. ralphm (from Flow)
  284. bear I was wondering if that sticker order went thru
  285. Laura Good stuff. Dinner and dinner sponsors… dwd?
  286. dwd I can't easily arrange dinner, but I suppose I can poke people for dinner sponsorship.
  287. Laura Who can we ask to help with dinner booking?
  288. dwd Ideally a Belgian or a Dutchman. But it doesn't have to be someone on the Board - it might be best if we put out a mail asking members for help with arranging things, actually.
  289. Laura dwd - that seems sensible. If we have a list, then ask for help with that list - people can offer to help with certain items?
  290. ralphm I can call them
  291. dwd Yeah. That works for me.
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  293. dwd ralphm, You sure? I'm concious we're putting nearly everything on your plate.
  294. Kev SuperRalph.
  295. Laura I need to wrap up soon (sorry guys, restricted by time tonight and we are nearly at 30 minutes already) but dwd - are you happy to send the email to members, if we can draw up a list now?
  296. ralphm dwd: it is just a simple call, no?
  297. dwd Yeah. What night are we picking.
  298. ralphm Did it last year, too
  299. ralphm I'd say thursday
  300. dwd Sounds good to me.
  301. Kev Between the two summit days has a lot of merit for idea discussion.
  302. Kev (So: Sounds good to me)
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  304. ralphm I'd also like to request everyone to register at http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_19 as soon as possible. In any case all Directors that are planning on attending
  305. ralphm (even if not entirely certain, please add a note to that end)
  306. Laura We need to mail everyone a proper notice about dates, plans etc. I know folk have felt confused with discussion emails
  307. ralphm I did, on Monday
  308. Laura Oh, I didn't get that… possibly over eager spam filter. I will check
  309. ralphm http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/members/2016-January/008228.html
  310. Kev I think Ralph covered that nicely :)
  311. Laura Guys, I am sorry but I need to leave. It's been slow work today. I will email everyone and hopefully we will all be over festive-lag and raring to go next week! Shall I leave you guys to it, or call it a wrap?
  312. ralphm Laura: are you coming to the summit?
  313. dwd Not after last time.
  314. Laura Hey!
  315. Laura Very unlikely though - it looks like dwd will be the Surevine rep out there
  316. Laura Sorry for inflicting him on you all again
  317. ralphm Laura: it will not be forgotten
  318. ralphm also, who do I pressure to make you go?
  319. dwd I have no idea how we'll book out the ribs place every night, now.
  320. Laura I am also scared someone might put me in an orange hoody again
  321. ralphm Laura: you loved it, don't deny
  322. Laura Ha - that's the real reason you want me there!
  323. Laura Rib place booking.
  324. Kev Everyone has their uses.
  325. Kev One day someone will find mine.
  326. Laura Put on a skirt and book the ribs place this year?
  327. ralphm aw
  328. ralphm Chair, order!
  329. Laura Calling it a wrap there! Bye :)
  330. Laura *bangs gavel*
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  333. dwd ralphm, In my mail to ask for volunteers to help, you want/need extra hands for FOSDEM?
  334. Kev I should be at the summit, but won't be at FOSDEM, BTW (I need to be back in Wales on the Saturday). I know I need to fill in the page :)
  335. ralphm dwd: it is always a great idea to have people handy at the stand, especially since we also have a devroom on Saturday
  336. ralphm As for the dinner, if the list on the summit wiki page remains this small, we could just as well hit the ribs place
  337. Kev I'm sad I won't be able to go to the devroom this year :/
  338. ralphm Kev: Indeed
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  352. Flow bear: the stickers arrived and some of them where distributed at the GSOC Mentors Summit.
  353. Flow stpeter: the GSOC money arrived too (just before christmas) :)
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  356. bear thanks flow
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  361. Tobias Flow, coming to fosdem and/or summit?
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  367. Zash Odd, why does Peter Wahers list posts not get attached to the proper thread by thunderb^W icedove?
  368. ralphm Not sure. I use Thunderbird all the time
  369. ralphm Tobias: so Flow said to me that was unlikely. That's why he is shipping the stickers to me.
  370. Tobias ah..ok
  371. moparisthebest Zash, I noticed that too, and also use thunderbird to reply (though not icedove)
  372. ralphm Tobias: it might still happen, but he wanted to be sure
  373. ralphm Tobias: are you coming?
  374. Tobias yup..
  375. ralphm Tobias: why is your name not on the wiki page yet?
  376. Tobias because i haven't written it into the wiki yet
  377. ralphm Tobias: do it!
  378. ralphm And this goes for everybody. If I don't have the number of people, I can't plan things.
  379. ralphm (like the XSF Dinner and lunches and stuff)
  380. MattJ I'm already on, do I win something?
  381. ralphm MattJ: my eternal gratitude and an IRL pat on your back?
  382. MattJ Oh wow, more than I expected
  383. ralphm MattJ: what did you expect?
  384. Tobias MattJ, yeah..you win the price for filling it out wrong :P
  385. Tobias MattJ, you're the only one mixing up given and family name on that list :)
  386. ralphm Heh! And I even chose those headings with care (as opposed to first/last)
  387. MattJ Ha
  388. ralphm But at least MattJ's on the list. That's more than most of @everyone here.
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  391. dwd He isn't. Someone called Wild Matthew is.
  392. dwd BTW, I've been a rebel and put myself at the end. The table is, after all, sortable with a click.
  393. Zash The wrath of ralphm will be upon you!
  394. dwd He can click "Family name" if he needs to.
  395. dwd Or Nickname. Or whatever.
  396. ralphm dwd: wrath
  397. ralphm dwd: that sorting thing was a trick by intosi and I am not buying it
  398. dwd ralphm, You had to pay him?
  399. ralphm dwd: hah.
  400. ralphm dwd: in any case, you've also earned the gratitude and pat
  401. dwd Right, time to reboot into Windows to do some terribly important Window work that isn't Elite Dangerous at all.
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  408. ralphm https://twitter.com/resiak/status/684679564153516032
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  411. bear the thread of that twitter post is amazing and sad and frustrating to read :/
  412. Lance There was a really nice link in there though: http://www.crummy.com/writing/speaking/2015-RESTFest/
  413. xnyhps Zash: Same in Mail.app, fwiw (even those that aren't a response to "Standards Digest").
  414. Zash Two things I noticed was Microsoft was involved in all detached mails, and the In-Reply-To headers seemed funny
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  416. Zash Libraries and E-books? That's a nice mess
  417. xnyhps Zash: I guess he's subscribed to the digest and replies by manually changing the subject.
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  419. Zash That might explain it
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  422. MattJ Meanwhile Twitter is such an awful interface for a long-running multi-party conversation
  423. MattJ Even out of order posts in places
  424. MattJ Where's Jaiku
  425. Tobias twitter conversations are a pinnacle in user experience
  426. Zash Yet people use it
  427. Tobias Zash, hopefully they stop when the 10k posts are coming :)
  428. MattJ Apparently not enough, they're worried about it
  429. Tobias about what?
  430. Zash Tobias: How will that help threading?
  431. Tobias Zash, i'm sure conversations are easier when less people are talking to each other
  432. MattJ Tobias, Twitter's user growth is has been slowing for some time, and they're worried about it
  433. MattJ Also, fewer users are signing up to their service
  434. Tobias i guess they still won't be happy if every internet accesible user and every company on earth had an account
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  438. bear @lance that talk is *awesome* - thanks for spotting it
  439. bear and I think xmpp is part of the 20% they ended the talk with
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  441. stpeter looks like an interesting talk, indeed - flagged for later reading :-)
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  445. Zash Does a recording of the actual talking exist?
  446. Lance Zash: https://vimeo.com/145022543
  447. Zash Thanks Lance
  448. Flow Tobias: yeah, I'm this year likely not going to be able to attend the Summit. I plan to attend the Chemnitz Linux Tage with Georg and Daniel. Feel free to join us. :)
  449. Tobias Flow, when are those?
  450. Flow 19/20 March
  451. Flow https://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de/2016/en
  452. Flow I wish XEP diffs would be like that: http://spec.commonmark.org/0.22/changes.html
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