XSF Discussion - 2016-01-06

hey you, yes, you!

Why haven't you signed up for the XMPP Summit yet?

http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_19

hey, I have signed up!

http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/mix.html

hi

it the mix proposal the MUC2 people are talking about for a while ?

Yes.

oki cool

it's good to have published it before summit

Should this be put on the official agenda for the summit?

when do we get https & hsts on xmpp.org? :)

mathieui, HTTPS works; I'm not sure HSTS would be a universal benefit.

dwd: have you seen my email on standard ? The diff tool is bugged in HTTPS

mathieui, I mean, https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/mix.html works fine, but there is a slight risk that banning http entirely might lead to us preventing some access. OTOH, we should probably switch to using the HTTPS URI throughout.

goffi, Ah, OK. That's a problem we should certainly address, then.

it's probably not a big deal, but I'm not the only one with HTTPS eveywhere

dwd, well, for the wiki it would probably be

goffi, I think it's that the stylesheet is accessed over HTTP, so maybe it's not loaded for security reasons?

goffi: PubSub without MAM doesn't just miss a search feature but also result set paging à la XEP-0059, no?

JS on the diff pages is blocked as it's mixed content.

(I mean, wiki.xmpp.org doesn’t have a valid-matching certificate)

dwd: are you planning to come to Summit 19 / Fosdem?

and are there any Yetis coming over this year?

Yes. Got at least one FOSDEM talk.

And I don't know of any, yet.

really would like to have a chat with some of the ppl behind talky.io...

winfried: talk to lance

but he isn't coming

OK, will do

dwd: maybe, both chromium and iceweasel don't work with https diff

Holger: XEP-0059 is mentionned in XEP-0060

we can use it without MAM

"Oh!" Nice.

we do actually in our static blog: https://libervia.org/blog/salut-a-toi

RSM is used for the "get older post" link

oups this one has just one post, this one has more: https://libervia.org/blog/goffi

s/"get older post"/"older messages"

XEP-0060 keeps including things I could swear it didn't include last time I read it!

Holger, It recursively includes itself.

Holger, Pubsub all the way down.

:-)

fippo: and you?

ralphm, fippo isn't a Yeti anymore.

Holger: having worked with 60 for a long time, I know the feeling ;)

So it's in some kind of superposition and every time you observe it it collapses into a slightly different document?

Exactly that. Depends on the reason why you're observing it, even.

Which reminds me, how much dust are the paper towers we cut it up into under now? :)

ralphm?

dwd: I know this, still would like to have him there

Zash: still in the envelopes, so no dust

It's nice to have an argument with fippo on standards@ again. Brings back happy memories. :-)

:)

hehehe

a new pgp xep, I like

Getting the Trello Board ready for the first Board meeting of 2016: https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

thanks Laura!

laura - I have to be in another meeting in 5 minutes so I will be lurking - the website should be ready this week after I meet with the iteam to give them (or install) the redirects I almost have finished. apologies for the very last minute update.

bear: Thanks for doing the work. I'll try to do whatever's needful when you're ready.

kev - no worries, it's going to be a file that can be included into an nginx config

Thanks Bear

(as that is how i'm testing it)

Ok folks, do we have anyone else from the Board here?

Yup.

ralphm ?

I'm here

Great, that's enough to kick off!

*bangs gavel* Let’s start the meeting!

Agenda, which as always is driven from Trello: https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings 1. Topics for decision 2. Review commitment list (what did people commit to do at the last meeting, and what is the progress ) 3. Review items for discussion (for post-meeting conversation/discussion) 4. AOB 5. Time and date of next

1. Topics…

I can see 2 - the first of which Bear has just updated us on (the website - for minute purposes - it's nearly there. Bear is just finishing the redirects)

The Summit needs a load of decisions and actions, I think.

The other… the summit. ralphm - do you need anything from the Board on this?

ralphm, You need a decision on the van hire, as usual?

Do we need to agree an overall budget?

Instead of individual asks?

That also works. Can we remember last year's budget?

Laura: I have not looked into D&O insurance yet, so I have nothing to report

Thanks Peter - not wuite there yet but I will take hat note

dwd - I am not aware of what the budget was. ralphm or stpeter?

OK. So let's assume we pick a working budget of €1500. I think that should cover the dinner, lunch costs, dinner transport, etc quite easily, and we should recover at least some of that via remaining hoody sales, sponsorship, etc.

Although I think a later item might affect that.

I;m not sure anyone else is actually here dwd!

But I would prefer to approve a budget, rather than each expense

Kev, Ah, true.

i'm +1 to having the baseline budget be equal to last years as a start

I never looked at the full budget

I assume dwd's estimate is valid

I wonder if stpeter can shine a light?

bear, I've no immediate record of last year's to hand. But 2012 costs were €4,620 back when we splurged on busses and pizza, and includes a stock of t-shirts.

Actually, I have 2013 to hand.

Which totalled about 3k including beanbags, t-shirts, and a bus trip.

I think we did last year in less.

No, that's 2014, not 2013.

Ok, based on that - are the Board happy to approve an initial budget of €1,500for the Summit, which we can review as we go?

But anyway, I think €1,500 is a reasonable starter budget.

+1

dwd / ralphm ?

However, I'd like to suggest we accept requests to subsidize attendance in return for volunteering effort - for example, for taking minutes for the Summit. That'd be in addition to this budget. I'm thinking primarily students and similar.

Oh, +1 to that starter budget.

That's 3 votes, so we have a majority. Initial budget of €1,500 approved.

What else is on the summit list?

Booking dinner, Cisco offices, transport to dinner, subsidizing people if we want to.

Oh and merchandise if we want it.

Do we have ralphm here or has he been pulled away? I know he usually coordinates things?

+1

I have arranged cisco offices as the summit venue

Oh good!

i.e. Chris has said this should be ok

I will also be receiving a batch of stickers

(from Flow)

I was wondering if that sticker order went thru

Good stuff. Dinner and dinner sponsors… dwd?

I can't easily arrange dinner, but I suppose I can poke people for dinner sponsorship.

Who can we ask to help with dinner booking?

Ideally a Belgian or a Dutchman. But it doesn't have to be someone on the Board - it might be best if we put out a mail asking members for help with arranging things, actually.

dwd - that seems sensible. If we have a list, then ask for help with that list - people can offer to help with certain items?

I can call them

Yeah. That works for me.

ralphm, You sure? I'm concious we're putting nearly everything on your plate.

SuperRalph.

I need to wrap up soon (sorry guys, restricted by time tonight and we are nearly at 30 minutes already) but dwd - are you happy to send the email to members, if we can draw up a list now?

dwd: it is just a simple call, no?

Yeah. What night are we picking.

Did it last year, too

I'd say thursday

Sounds good to me.

Between the two summit days has a lot of merit for idea discussion.

(So: Sounds good to me)

I'd also like to request everyone to register at http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_19 as soon as possible. In any case all Directors that are planning on attending

(even if not entirely certain, please add a note to that end)

We need to mail everyone a proper notice about dates, plans etc. I know folk have felt confused with discussion emails

I did, on Monday

Oh, I didn't get that… possibly over eager spam filter. I will check

http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/members/2016-January/008228.html

I think Ralph covered that nicely :)

Guys, I am sorry but I need to leave. It's been slow work today. I will email everyone and hopefully we will all be over festive-lag and raring to go next week! Shall I leave you guys to it, or call it a wrap?

Laura: are you coming to the summit?

Not after last time.

Hey!

Very unlikely though - it looks like dwd will be the Surevine rep out there

Sorry for inflicting him on you all again

Laura: it will not be forgotten

also, who do I pressure to make you go?

I have no idea how we'll book out the ribs place every night, now.

I am also scared someone might put me in an orange hoody again

Laura: you loved it, don't deny

Ha - that's the real reason you want me there!

Rib place booking.

Everyone has their uses.

One day someone will find mine.

Put on a skirt and book the ribs place this year?

aw

Chair, order!

Calling it a wrap there! Bye :)

*bangs gavel*

ralphm, In my mail to ask for volunteers to help, you want/need extra hands for FOSDEM?

I should be at the summit, but won't be at FOSDEM, BTW (I need to be back in Wales on the Saturday). I know I need to fill in the page :)

dwd: it is always a great idea to have people handy at the stand, especially since we also have a devroom on Saturday

As for the dinner, if the list on the summit wiki page remains this small, we could just as well hit the ribs place

I'm sad I won't be able to go to the devroom this year :/

Kev: Indeed

bear: the stickers arrived and some of them where distributed at the GSOC Mentors Summit.

stpeter: the GSOC money arrived too (just before christmas) :)

thanks flow

Flow, coming to fosdem and/or summit?

Odd, why does Peter Wahers list posts not get attached to the proper thread by thunderb^W icedove?

Not sure. I use Thunderbird all the time

Tobias: so Flow said to me that was unlikely. That's why he is shipping the stickers to me.

ah..ok

Zash, I noticed that too, and also use thunderbird to reply (though not icedove)

Tobias: it might still happen, but he wanted to be sure

Tobias: are you coming?

yup..

Tobias: why is your name not on the wiki page yet?

because i haven't written it into the wiki yet

Tobias: do it!

And this goes for everybody. If I don't have the number of people, I can't plan things.

(like the XSF Dinner and lunches and stuff)

I'm already on, do I win something?

MattJ: my eternal gratitude and an IRL pat on your back?

Oh wow, more than I expected

MattJ: what did you expect?

MattJ, yeah..you win the price for filling it out wrong :P

MattJ, you're the only one mixing up given and family name on that list :)

Heh! And I even chose those headings with care (as opposed to first/last)

Ha

But at least MattJ's on the list. That's more than most of @everyone here.

He isn't. Someone called Wild Matthew is.

BTW, I've been a rebel and put myself at the end. The table is, after all, sortable with a click.

The wrath of ralphm will be upon you!

He can click "Family name" if he needs to.

Or Nickname. Or whatever.

dwd: wrath

dwd: that sorting thing was a trick by intosi and I am not buying it

ralphm, You had to pay him?

dwd: hah.

dwd: in any case, you've also earned the gratitude and pat

Right, time to reboot into Windows to do some terribly important Window work that isn't Elite Dangerous at all.

https://twitter.com/resiak/status/684679564153516032

the thread of that twitter post is amazing and sad and frustrating to read :/

There was a really nice link in there though: http://www.crummy.com/writing/speaking/2015-RESTFest/

Zash: Same in Mail.app, fwiw (even those that aren't a response to "Standards Digest").

Two things I noticed was Microsoft was involved in all detached mails, and the In-Reply-To headers seemed funny

Libraries and E-books? That's a nice mess

Zash: I guess he's subscribed to the digest and replies by manually changing the subject.

That might explain it

Meanwhile Twitter is such an awful interface for a long-running multi-party conversation

Even out of order posts in places

Where's Jaiku

twitter conversations are a pinnacle in user experience

Yet people use it

Zash, hopefully they stop when the 10k posts are coming :)

Apparently not enough, they're worried about it

about what?

Tobias: How will that help threading?

Zash, i'm sure conversations are easier when less people are talking to each other

Tobias, Twitter's user growth is has been slowing for some time, and they're worried about it

Also, fewer users are signing up to their service

i guess they still won't be happy if every internet accesible user and every company on earth had an account

@lance that talk is *awesome* - thanks for spotting it

and I think xmpp is part of the 20% they ended the talk with

looks like an interesting talk, indeed - flagged for later reading :-)

Does a recording of the actual talking exist?

Zash: https://vimeo.com/145022543

Thanks Lance

Tobias: yeah, I'm this year likely not going to be able to attend the Summit. I plan to attend the Chemnitz Linux Tage with Georg and Daniel. Feel free to join us. :)

Flow, when are those?

19/20 March

https://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de/2016/en

I wish XEP diffs would be like that: http://spec.commonmark.org/0.22/changes.html