XSF Discussion - 2016-01-19

  1. Kev

    Right, voted!

  2. Alex


  3. Ge0rG

    it's awesome to see how diverse our crowd is

  4. goffi

    hi, I have submitted a protoxep last week-end, can I have a confirmation that it was well received by somebody subscribed on editor@ please ? Thanks :)

  5. thorsten

    goffi: which protoxep?

  6. goffi

    thorsten: jid mention

  7. thorsten


  8. goffi

    thorsten: there is a rendered version there: http://www.goffi.org/public/xmpp/xep/xep-proto-jid-mention.html

  9. thorsten

    goffi: let me check

  10. thorsten

    And it has been acknowledged by xmpp.org?

  11. SouL


  12. goffi

    thorsten: I have sent id last week-end, but no response and didn't see it proposed on standard@, that's why I'm asking here

  13. goffi


  14. ThUnD3r|Gr33n

    that's a shame! it sounds fine so far for me :)

  15. goffi

    editor@ are probably busy, it's not a big deal if it takes a couple of days, I just want to be sure is was received...

  16. Kev

    Did you send in the appropriate way? Email to editor@ with 'XEP' in the subject?

  17. SamWhited

    goffi: it was received.

  18. goffi

    Kev: yes

  19. goffi

    SamWhited: oki perfect, thanks

  20. edhelas

    hello everyone, I'm having a look at https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0369.html it's quite interesting but I'm wondering how all theses subscriptions will be listed for the clients

  21. edhelas

    to display the "subscribed rooms"

  22. Kev

    edhelas: You'd combine it with the pubsub-account stuff that dwd's working on.

  23. edhelas

    Kev, you have a link for it ?

  24. Kev

    Dave wrote a mail to standards@ with an outline, but there's no XEP yet.

  25. edhelas will search the email

  26. Kev

    The 'how do you tell what you're subscribed to' is a generic pubsub problem without the pubsub-account stuff, but MIX combined with pubsub-account is going to be rather nice.

  27. Flow

    What should one use for an namespace not related to an XEP? xmlns='http://projectname.org'? xmlns='projectname.org'?

  28. MattJ

    You can do, yes

  29. MattJ

    You might want to use "http://projectname.org/something"

  30. MattJ

    so you can have different values for different protocols

  31. Flow

    MattJ: I do wonder how important the scheme is

  32. Flow

    especially in times of https everywhere

  33. Zash

    Flow: It's an opaque string

  34. Flow

    Zash: i wonder how opaque it is, there is http://www.iana.org/assignments/xml-registry/xml-registry.xhtml

  35. Flow

    but I can't find any rules or an registration for "urn:xmpp" which is used by todays XEPs

  36. Flow

    nor any saying that all strings with the "urn:xmpp:" belong to the XSF

  37. Zash

    That seems to be the IETFs namespaces

  38. Flow

    so I assume it's just convention and a requirement

  39. Flow

    *and not a requirement

  40. Zash


  41. Zash

    -rfc 4854

  42. Zash

    -rfc 4854

  43. Bunneh

    Zash: A Uniform Resource Name (URN) Namespace for Extensions to the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP). P. Saint-Andre. April 2007. (Status: INFORMATIONAL) (DOI: 10.17487/RFC4854) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4854

  44. Zash


  45. Flow


  46. Flow

    Zash: ta :)

  47. Zash

    What's the implementation status of the latest MAM?

  48. Zash

    in clients

  49. Flow

    Zash: Why do you ask?

  50. Zash

    I've had a patch for a version bump laying around since forever and wonder when would be a good time to update

  51. Flow

    I personally wait for https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/82 to get merged until I continue Smack's MAM impl

  52. intosi


  53. Zash


  54. intosi

    It was fairly easy to support both, I found.

  55. Zash

    Our Carbons and 198 impl already do that

  56. Zash

    Still don't really like ti

  57. Zash

    Still don't really like it

  58. Tobias

    are there any news regarding the planned group booking for the summit hotel?

  59. Kev

    Tobias: I believe everyone's just been booking it themselves.

  60. Tobias

    ok...would be nice if it would have been communicated

  61. Kev


  62. Tobias

    but still the same hotel, right?

  63. Kev


  64. Tobias

    seems to be sold out for wendsday to sunday..then i'll look for something else

  65. Kev


  66. mathieui

    re: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/content-types.html I don’t like it much, but if this is required for something, it would be nice to have a disco that actually tells which content-types are supported

  67. mathieui

    instead of sending useless data that will be discarded by the other party

  68. Zash


  69. Zash

    Eg <feature var="urn:xmpp:content#text/plain"/> etc?

  70. Zash

    intosi: The change to update is small but the change needed to do both would be large and ugly :(

  71. mathieui

    Zash, yeah

  72. MattJ

    I really don't like it

  73. Zash

    'it' suddenly became ambiguos

  74. goffi

    I don't like it neither, it will bring more fragmentation

  75. goffi

    we use markdown and we convert to XHTML, but what should I do if somebody use markdown as text? Use XHTML version or text?

  76. goffi

    and probably other formats will come, other flavour of markdown

  77. MattJ


  78. Zash

    MattJ: What about the JSON container XEP?

  79. MattJ

    Machine-to-machine, not IM

  80. MattJ

    Humans are good at interpreting the same data, in different formats, in the same way

  81. MattJ

    i.e. XHTML-IM vs Markdown vs plain text with no markdown, are all going to be slightly different but still readable

  82. MattJ

    The user's client does not need to know the difference

  83. Zash

    I kinda thougt they wanted XHTML-IM without XHTML-IM, by having the receiving client render it from Markdown

  84. MattJ

    I think so

  85. MattJ

    Which implies having multiple formats for conveying formatted text on the wire

  86. MattJ

    > 17:38:33 MattJ> I really don't like it

  87. Zash

    Same could be said about XHTML-IM :)

  88. Zash

    Or well, sorta

  89. MattJ

    We have plain, and we have formatted

  90. Zash

    Weirdness happens if they have different actual content

  91. MattJ

    Markdown can be both, but it's not a third category

  92. xnyhps

    > Every XMPP Extension Protocol specification must contain a section entitled "Security Considerations"

  93. moparisthebest

    add to that no 2 clients would use the same parser and would end up with wildly different displayed representations

  94. Zash

    There can be only Pandoc!

  95. MattJ

    (Zash is currently in love with pandoc)

  96. moparisthebest

    that'd be my preference but someone would complain that it's not a standard and has a license they don't like :)

  97. moparisthebest

    personally I don't want instant messages long enough to require formatting, but I understand there are different use cases

  98. Zash


  99. MattJ

    Booked for Brussels (Aloft)

  100. MattJ

    Note I won't be arriving until late on Thursday, so will miss summit day 1

  101. Flow

    mathieui: I do believe that would be against the idea of conent hints: <body> content is always human readable, the hint is just to indicate a particular encoding

  102. Flow

    so I would simply remove § 2.2 and § 2.3 from the content-types xep

  103. SamWhited

    Memberbot really needs an "Aprove all" button

  104. Zash

    yes yes | xmppsend memberbot

  105. SamWhited

    "yes " * 17

  106. MattJ

    Memberbot really does not need an "approve all" button :)

  107. SamWhited

    *shrug* If people care enough to take the time to apply for membership that's pretty much all I'm looking for

  108. MattJ

    You are entitled to your own acceptance criteria, but I'm not comfortable with accepting without reading the application they submitted

  109. SamWhited

    That's fair

  110. Kev

    Particularly that there was one ineligible application this year ;)

  111. Kev

    So, if the Aloft doesn't have any rooms left for XSF people, should we be thinking of being elsewhere?

  112. SamWhited

    What makes someone ineligible?

  113. SamWhited

    I don't even understand the point of membership except to prevent someone from skewing a vote by having all their friends vote

  114. Kev

    SamWhited: Dave didn't include email address/JID. Presumably deliberately because the XEP didn't get advanced, or such.

  115. Kev

    According to the wiki, almost no-one has booked the Aloft, which suggests, given there were no rooms when Tobi just tried to book, that the majority of people won't be able to be there.

  116. Zash

    Or, the majority of people haven't updated that page

  117. Kev

    Or that.

  118. Tobias

    Kev, if the wiki page represents the reality, that is :)

  119. intosi

    Wed - Thu isn't available, but Thu - Sun is.

  120. Tobias

    intosi, yup..thu - sun is...but who knows how many :) but at the current time it'll probably be the same everywhere

  121. intosi

    Brussels in that weekend can be a bit of a challenge this late.