XSF Discussion - 2016-12-29


  1. daniel has joined

  2. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  3. kalkin has left

  4. Holger has left

  5. vanitasvitae has left

  6. vanitasvitae has joined

  7. Guus has left

  8. lonerz1 has left

  9. Holger has left

  10. lonerz has left

  11. Holger has left

  12. Tobias has joined

  13. lonerz1 has joined

  14. lonerz1 has left

  15. moparisthebest has joined

  16. Tobias has joined

  17. beni has left

  18. beni has joined

  19. daurnimator has left

  20. daurnimator has joined

  21. daurnimator has left

  22. daurnimator has joined

  23. daurnimator has left

  24. daurnimator has joined

  25. waqas has joined

  26. moparisthebest has left

  27. daurnimator has left

  28. daurnimator has joined

  29. Zash has left

  30. murphy has left

  31. lonerz1 has joined

  32. Joachim has left

  33. mancho has joined

  34. Guus has left

  35. moparisthebest has joined

  36. mancho has left

  37. moparisthebest has left

  38. moparisthebest has joined

  39. beni has left

  40. beni has joined

  41. murphy has joined

  42. murphy has left

  43. jere has joined

  44. daurnimator has left

  45. daurnimator has joined

  46. murphy has left

  47. daurnimator has left

  48. daurnimator has joined

  49. lonerz1 has left

  50. moparisthebest has joined

  51. moparisthebest has joined

  52. daurnimator has left

  53. daurnimator has joined

  54. lonerz1 has joined

  55. waqas has left

  56. lonerz1 has left

  57. lonerz1 has joined

  58. daurnimator has left

  59. daurnimator has joined

  60. mancho has joined

  61. daurnimator has left

  62. daurnimator has joined

  63. daurnimator has left

  64. daurnimator has joined

  65. mancho has left

  66. intosi has joined

  67. daurnimator has left

  68. daurnimator has joined

  69. moparisthebest has joined

  70. daurnimator has left

  71. daurnimator has joined

  72. moparisthebest has joined

  73. kalkin has joined

  74. moparisthebest has joined

  75. Guus has left

  76. Guus has left

  77. intosi has left

  78. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  79. Guus has left

  80. jubalh has joined

  81. jubalh has left

  82. Vinilox has joined

  83. goffi has left

  84. mimi89999 has joined

  85. Valerian has joined

  86. lonerz1 has left

  87. Sonny has left

  88. Sonny has joined

  89. moparisthebest has joined

  90. lonerz1 has joined

  91. lonerz1 has left

  92. intosi has joined

  93. daniel has left

  94. daniel has joined

  95. daurnimator has left

  96. daurnimator has joined

  97. jere has joined

  98. mancho has joined

  99. jere has left

  100. jere has joined

  101. Sonny has left

  102. Sonny has joined

  103. jere has left

  104. moparisthebest has left

  105. mancho has left

  106. mancho has joined

  107. intosi has left

  108. intosi has joined

  109. beni has left

  110. beni has joined

  111. intosi has left

  112. intosi has joined

  113. intosi has left

  114. intosi has joined

  115. mancho has left

  116. Alex has joined

  117. pep. has joined

  118. intosi has left

  119. Zash has joined

  120. intosi has joined

  121. vanitasvitae has left

  122. vanitasvitae has joined

  123. mancho has joined

  124. xnyhps has left

  125. Zash has left

  126. Valerian has left

  127. Valerian has joined

  128. daniel has left

  129. Guus has left

  130. mancho has left

  131. mimi89999 has left

  132. daniel has joined

  133. intosi has left

  134. intosi has joined

  135. Flow has joined

  136. mancho has joined

  137. moparisthebest has joined

  138. Guus has left

  139. intosi has left

  140. intosi has joined

  141. Guus has left

  142. mancho has left

  143. intosi has left

  144. vanitasvitae has left

  145. vanitasvitae has joined

  146. daniel has left

  147. daniel has joined

  148. daniel has left

  149. daniel has joined

  150. daniel has left

  151. daniel has joined

  152. intosi has joined

  153. Valerian has left

  154. Zash has left

  155. daniel has left

  156. daniel has joined

  157. moparisthebest has left

  158. beni has left

  159. Tobias has joined

  160. Tobias has joined

  161. daniel has left

  162. daniel has joined

  163. intosi has left

  164. intosi has joined

  165. jere has joined

  166. Zash has joined

  167. jubalh has joined

  168. Yagiza has joined

  169. jere has joined

  170. jere has joined

  171. pep. has joined

  172. Sonny has left

  173. jere has left

  174. jere has joined

  175. Sonny has joined

  176. jubalh has left

  177. Valerian has joined

  178. Valerian has left

  179. Valerian has joined

  180. jere has left

  181. jere has joined

  182. Guus has left

  183. jere has left

  184. jere has joined

  185. murphy has left

  186. Sonny has left

  187. Sonny has joined

  188. beni has left

  189. murphy has joined

  190. jere has left

  191. jere has left

  192. jere has left

  193. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  194. Sonny has left

  195. Sonny has joined

  196. Sonny has left

  197. Sonny has joined

  198. Tobias has joined

  199. Yagiza has left

  200. xnyhps has joined

  201. Sonny has left

  202. Yagiza has joined

  203. goffi has left

  204. jere has left

  205. goffi has left

  206. Sonny has joined

  207. beni has left

  208. beni has joined

  209. xnyhps has left

  210. Tobias has joined

  211. intosi has left

  212. intosi has joined

  213. intosi has left

  214. xnyhps has joined

  215. jere has joined

  216. Alex has left

  217. murphy has left

  218. mimi89999 has joined

  219. moparisthebest has joined

  220. xnyhps has joined

  221. goffi has joined

  222. daniel has left

  223. daniel has joined

  224. jubalh has joined

  225. vanitasvitae has left

  226. Yagiza has left

  227. mathieui

    Tobias, what’s the talk that is going to say "federation doesn’t work" again?

  228. Tobias

    mathieui, https://events.ccc.de/congress/2016/wiki/Session:Are_decentralized_services_unable_to_innovate%3F#_0043166f5c425145741cb5a178a7ac3c

  229. mathieui

    oh ok, it’s not a in a big room

  230. mathieui

    that will probably be fun

  231. Zash

    But https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines

  232. Tobias

    :D

  233. Yagiza has joined

  234. Zash has joined

  235. Guus has left

  236. Flow

    Looking forward to what hanno has to say

  237. Tobias has joined

  238. Tobias

    Flow, in what talk?

  239. Tobias has joined

  240. vanitasvitae has left

  241. Flow

    Tobias: the one you mentioned

  242. Tobias

    Flow, ah..i thought you meant another talk

  243. Flow

    That was one of the only lectures/sessions relating to XMPP I found at the 33C3

  244. Tobias

    Flow, yeah..there was a ton of matrix related stuff though

  245. daniel

    Tobias: a ton?

  246. daniel

    I've heard of one

  247. Tobias

    daniel, 2-3 i think :)

  248. Flow

    anything interesting amongst that ton?

  249. Tobias

    ah..misread one..so yeah..just one

  250. Tobias

    the other was a different matrix

  251. jubalh has left

  252. Tobias has joined

  253. daurnimator has left

  254. daurnimator has joined

  255. daurnimator has left

  256. daurnimator has joined

  257. xnyhps has joined

  258. Flow

    just like the matrix movies: good there is only one

  259. Flow

    erm, *movie

  260. SamWhited has joined

  261. jubalh has joined

  262. SouL has joined

  263. moparisthebest

    Good analogy Flow , matrix is like the matrix sequel to xmpp? :-)

  264. daurnimator has left

  265. daurnimator has joined

  266. beni has left

  267. Flow

    which matrix sequel?

  268. daurnimator has left

  269. daurnimator has joined

  270. murphy has joined

  271. daniel

    Imagine they made a sequel. That would probably have been pretty terrible

  272. lonerz1 has joined

  273. Alex has joined

  274. Flow

    i've heard that sensa8 is not so bad

  275. jubalh has left

  276. Flow

    *sense8

  277. edhelas

    Sense8 is great yeah :) Can't wait for S02

  278. Flow

    edhelas: So you say I shall start watching it?

  279. lonerz1 has left

  280. Alex has left

  281. moparisthebest has joined

  282. Alex has joined

  283. waqas has joined

  284. beni has left

  285. lonerz1 has joined

  286. beni has left

  287. lonerz1 has left

  288. beni has joined

  289. pep. has joined

  290. moparisthebest has joined

  291. mimi89999 has left

  292. Valerian has left

  293. Valerian has joined

  294. Valerian has left

  295. Valerian has joined

  296. daniel has left

  297. lonerz1 has joined

  298. daniel has joined

  299. daniel has left

  300. moparisthebest has left

  301. xnyhps has left

  302. murphy has left

  303. daniel has joined

  304. jere has left

  305. jere has joined

  306. Valerian has left

  307. ralphm has left

  308. ralphm has joined

  309. beni has left

  310. daniel has left

  311. SamWhited has left

  312. jere has joined

  313. jere has joined

  314. daniel has joined

  315. Neustradamus has left

  316. mancho has joined

  317. lonerz1 has left

  318. lonerz1 has joined

  319. MattJ

    I don't get it, there are (at least?) two Matrix sequels... it was a trilogy

  320. Tobias has joined

  321. lonerz1 has left

  322. Zash

    MattJ: No, I'm afraid that was all a fever induced nightmare you had.

  323. Holger has left

  324. murphy has joined

  325. mathieui

    just submitted a cloudflare abuse report for xmppspam.space

  326. mathieui

    wondering if anything will come out of it

  327. Vinilox has joined

  328. edhelas

    Moar spam ?

  329. mathieui

    not more

  330. lonerz1 has joined

  331. mancho has left

  332. moparisthebest has joined

  333. murphy has left

  334. goffi has left

  335. murphy has left

  336. Tobias

    mathieui: I doubt they will

  337. Tobias

    wow...MIX is alread 40% of the size of pubsub

  338. Tobias

    wow...MIX is already 40% of the size of pubsub

  339. moparisthebest has joined

  340. SamWhited

    ouch

  341. Tobias

    i wonder if one could make that more compact

  342. Zash

    cut up pubsub into pieces, each smaller than MIX?

  343. Tobias

    probably

  344. SamWhited

    I suspect MIX and Pubsub could both be trimmed down. Surely they don't need all those features… (that last statement was only half joking)

  345. murphy has left

  346. ralphm

    I have a physically chopped up XEP-0060 printout for quite a while now. I just haven't gotten to do all the editorial work to actually make it into separate XEPs.

  347. moparisthebest has joined

  348. murphy has left

  349. Tobias

    yeah..but with MIX you start fresh...you could already try to not bloat it up from the get go

  350. beni has left

  351. murphy has left

  352. vanitasvitae has left

  353. vanitasvitae has joined

  354. murphy has joined

  355. Tobias has joined

  356. arc has left

  357. arc has joined

  358. Flow has left

  359. lonerz1 has left

  360. Flow has joined

  361. arc has left

  362. arc has joined

  363. Flow has left

  364. SamWhited has left

  365. arc has left

  366. arc has joined

  367. arc has left

  368. xnyhps has left

  369. arc has joined

  370. moparisthebest has left

  371. Tobias has joined

  372. SamWhited has left

  373. goffi has joined

  374. beni has left

  375. goffi has left

  376. goffi has joined

  377. goffi

    MattJ: https://www.xkcd.com/566/

  378. murphy has left

  379. jere has left

  380. jere has joined

  381. moparisthebest has joined

  382. Valerian has joined

  383. mathieui

    I may have to hold edhelas back if the speaker reads some more moxie

  384. lonerz1 has joined

  385. Tobias has joined

  386. Zash

    What's the thing?

  387. Zash

    Will it be video'd?

  388. mathieui

    nah

  389. mathieui

    it’s https://events.ccc.de/congress/2016/wiki/Session:Are_decentralized_services_unable_to_innovate%3F

  390. lonerz1 has left

  391. mathieui

    Hanno has good points (that we already know), but some stuff is factually wrong though

  392. lonerz1 has joined

  393. Zash

    Hanno who's name I recognize from litsts like oss-sec?

  394. Tobias has joined

  395. mathieui

    yeah

  396. SamWhited

    That should be good; wish I were there for that.

  397. mathieui

    like, he’s the one who found a nice series of PHP CVEs "reading random code on the train on the way to 33C3"

  398. daniel

    Who cares about facts though

  399. mathieui

    (or raised the "gajim OTR leaks plaintext" CVE)

  400. Zash

    Tell them "Tradeoffs" and "Meh" from me.

  401. SamWhited

    The description sounds pretty bang on; I'd be curious to know what he gets right/wrong in the actual talk.

  402. daniel

    mathieui: did he?

  403. mathieui

    daniel, "raised", after it was fixed

  404. daniel

    I was under the impression that this was lovetox

  405. daniel

    Who found the bug

  406. Zash

    raised as in, so it got a CVE number?

  407. mathieui

    yeah

  408. mathieui

    so he still is kind of up-to-date and knowledgeable, I mean

  409. murphy has joined

  410. Tobias has joined

  411. daniel

    Should have brought some straw for all the men he is building

  412. mathieui

    :D

  413. SamWhited

    Oh joy, another one of those; *sigh* I keep hoping someone will have an actual talk about this.

  414. xnyhps

    Haha

  415. Link Mauve

    Zash, https://www.zash.se/xmpp-features.html is now zero bytes.

  416. lonerz1 has left

  417. ralphm has joined

  418. Zash

    Link Mauve: now then

  419. Link Mauve

    Zash, thanks.

  420. Link Mauve

    Oh, I didn’t contribute the server part of 0375?

  421. Holger has left

  422. Valerian has left

  423. jere has joined

  424. daniel

    I like how his rhetorical question bomb completely. 'who here ever received xmpp spam?' almost nobody raises hand. 'who here ever used xmpp video chat?' lots of people raise hand

  425. Sonny has left

  426. Sonny has joined

  427. Valerian has joined

  428. mathieui

    well, if he asked if people were using video chat often, it might have been a different answer

  429. Link Mauve

    :)

  430. daniel

    mathieui: :-)

  431. Link Mauve

    I actually use Jitsi Meet as my sole personal video chat client.

  432. edhelas

    mathieui, I'll call you after the conference to talk about it ;)

  433. mathieui

    sure

  434. mathieui

    I used XMPP video chat, 5 years ago, twice

  435. Valerian has left

  436. Valerian has joined

  437. Link Mauve

    I helped ThibG test his implementation in Gajim 0.14, twice.

  438. Zash

    Didn't we use Jitsi meet at some recent summit?

  439. SamWhited

    We used it at the Austin one (it worked very well, if I do say so myself)

  440. Zash

    Link Mauve: That sounds like thing I might have done as well.

  441. Alex has left

  442. mathieui

    so if I hear correctly one guy just suggested we should contribute to signal instead of writing XEPs

  443. Zash

    What's the point when I can't run my own server?

  444. edhelas

    incoming XEP-xxxx : Signal over XMPP

  445. xnyhps

    Zash: You can, but you're on there alone.

  446. Sonny has left

  447. SamWhited

    I wonder why we should contribute to signal instead of signal contributing to us… or why signal over <insert other favorite messaging app here>

  448. SamWhited

    Or why these two things are even related at all

  449. mathieui

    SamWhited, it has to mostly open-source

  450. Zash

    Isn't that basically OMEMO?

  451. mathieui

    SamWhited, although, I kind of agree that people complaining that signal uses GCM should just finish the pull request adding websocket support

  452. mathieui

    but I personnally don’t care obviously

  453. Alex has joined

  454. SamWhited

    I don't care about any of that; I was just pointing out that the argument could go either way

  455. Zash

    No, everyone should go invent yet another messaging thing from scratch for no reason!

  456. xyz has joined

  457. mathieui

    Zash, innovate!

  458. Sonny has joined

  459. Link Mauve

    Zash, disrupt!

  460. waqas

    Zash: The big issue here is a lack of JSON. XEP-0295 has been out for years, yet implementations are scarce.

  461. Zash

    Try adding more JSON?

  462. SamWhited has left

  463. moparisthebest has joined

  464. jere has left

  465. jere has joined

  466. xyz has left

  467. arc has left

  468. beni has left

  469. arc has joined

  470. xyz has joined

  471. arc has left

  472. arc has joined

  473. arc has left

  474. arc has joined

  475. arc has left

  476. arc has joined

  477. arc has left

  478. arc has joined

  479. Tobias

    Nobody was ever fired for using JSON

  480. Valerian has left

  481. Tobias has left

  482. Tobias has joined

  483. xyz has left

  484. intosi has joined

  485. SamWhited

    Were there any good points in the talk? We can mock, but this is an actual problem and it would be nice to solve some of XMPP's random incompatibilities.

  486. SamWhited

    This is why I still think we need to deprecate privacy lists, and XHTML-IM, and Message Archiving, etc. even if no full replacement exists yet. It just leads to confusion, a fragmented ecosystem, and talks like this.

  487. Zash

    Yes, a summary would be neat to hear before I run out of Futurama episodes to watch instead of going to sleep.

  488. waqas agrees with SamWhited about it being an actual problem to be discussed and solved

  489. Zash

    XHTML-IM is bad now?

  490. SamWhited

    I certainly think so; nothing that supports it renders anything the same as anything else that supports it, and I have yet to find a web client that supports it which I couldn't script inject.

  491. SamWhited

    Even if you only look at a single client and don't care if things render exactly the same between clients, you can pretty much always break that particular clients UI with it (by introducing images or huge text or whatever)

  492. SamWhited

    I don't know if that was one of the specific complaints people had; I was just trying to think of examples of things that I think break XMPP clients UX

  493. Zash

    Not that I personally would miss it, but I would care more for semantics than exact rendering.

  494. lonerz1 has joined

  495. Zash

    Also, you should try to find the giant stick labeled 'Is the new MAM revision done yet?' and poke MattJ with it.

  496. Zash

    And whatever happened with Carbons?

  497. Zash

    Wasn't it supposed to be Draft-ified or updated or something?

  498. SamWhited

    The Carbons last-call kind of died out; I should bring that back up again.

  499. SamWhited

    I don't remember why; I'm sure there was some update that needed doing.

  500. intosi has left

  501. mathieui

    SamWhited, all in all it was a pretty balanced talk

  502. mathieui

    slides will be online

  503. SamWhited refreshes the page a bunch :)

  504. moparisthebest has joined

  505. Zash

    SamWhited: Tell me when to refresh the page so I can refresh the page.

  506. SamWhited

    Zash: wilco

  507. Tobias

    SamWhited, will write some mail to standards/members ML...the manifesto as nice, but is outdated for nowaday security standards

  508. SamWhited

    Zash: refresh the page

  509. Tobias

    compliance suites are nice, but the latest one doesn't include E2E security (OMEMO wasn't a XEP yet then)

  510. SamWhited

    (the website is the slides, I just discovered)

  511. SamWhited

    Ooh yah, we should definitely add it now that it is.

  512. Zash

    Hold on, I closed the page, let me just scroll up and find the link again so I can open it and refresh it.

  513. Zash

    Oh neat, only 22 hits for "Signal" in the slides

  514. daniel has left

  515. SamWhited

    It seems to me that his core premise is that all messages should be e2e encrypted all the time and that there should be no plaintext fallback, but I disagree with that as a valid assumption. His foundation feels a bit shakey.

  516. daniel has joined

  517. Tobias

    SamWhited, we should have the client list on xmpp.org sorted by support of compliance suite features...simular to that page from daniel where he shows what service support which XEPs

  518. mathieui

    SamWhited, I agree with you, but I see his point

  519. mathieui

    I mean, ideally you should choose your admin, but ideally you should still not be 100% hoping on his goodwill

  520. Tobias has joined

  521. Tobias

    SamWhited, and modernize that manifesto for requiring TLS 1.2 support, cleaning up inconsistencies, etc.

  522. Zash

    Ideally you should choose an admin within range of a tactical ballistic stones throw.

  523. moparisthebest

    But you can have that now with omemo, hell you could have it 10? Years ago with pgp xep27

  524. SamWhited

    I do agree with his assertion that having OMEMO and new-PGP is poor and not well justified; we should fix that too.

  525. moparisthebest

    Different use cases SamWhited

  526. moparisthebest

    Omemo forces forward secrecy, sometimes you don't want that

  527. SamWhited

    I don't disagree with that, but I don't think it's a good enough reason to have two separate crypto protocols.

  528. Tobias

    moparisthebest, it only forces it as implementation detail, doesn't it?...if you never delete your keys, you won't have FS, not?

  529. SamWhited

    His very next slide says "Is it good to idealize choice and sacrifice interoperability and security?" and I think the answer is no; we should only support OMEMO even if it means the no-FS use case isn't covered.

  530. SamWhited

    (in my mind)

  531. moparisthebest

    So I use xep27 for notifications from my servers, cronjobs and such I used to use email for

  532. Tobias

    right..but in the end it's protocol choice

  533. moparisthebest

    I'm not clear I could use omemo for that

  534. Tobias

    if hte new PGP XEP won't be part of the compliance suite, but omemo will, client devs have less incentive to implement it

  535. moparisthebest

    At least without keeping my keys too long etc

  536. Tobias

    moparisthebest, i'm sure omemo could also be used by notification bots

  537. SamWhited

    If it's a notification from your server isn't it already end-to-end encrypted (from the server to you) by virtue of using TLS?

  538. moparisthebest

    Tobias: well it connects, send the message and then disconnects

  539. SamWhited

    oh, not from your XMPP server, just "from my servers"; nevermind.

  540. moparisthebest

    SamWhited: yes, but why not pgp also? :-)

  541. Tobias

    right..but as long as it fetches the correct prekeys from the receipient via PEP

  542. SamWhited

    moparisthebest: because you've just increased your attack surface drastically and your reasoning is "why not"

  543. mathieui

    SamWhited, we usually refer to TLS as point-to-point, obviously

  544. Tobias

    daniel, there's nothing preventing a script from connecting, sending a omemo message, and disconnecting, right?

  545. daniel has left

  546. Zash

    That Prosody bug possibly.

  547. moparisthebest

    SamWhited: I think it reduces attack surface, like if a tls bug happens, I'm fine

  548. arc has left

  549. arc has joined

  550. SamWhited

    Adding more things with the argument "why not" is *never* an okay way to engineer anything. Redundancy can be good, but it generally needs justification. In this case you're just introducing more dependencies to a system that's complex already (more dependencies that can have their own vulnerabilities and issues which I could potentially attack).

  551. moparisthebest

    Then take out tls all together

  552. arc has left

  553. Tobias

    SamWhited, true

  554. moparisthebest

    After all these messages don't matter

  555. SamWhited

    In this case I'd argue that adding more stuff is at best pointless, and at worst dangerous.

  556. Tobias

    i hope the MIX step has nothing redudant in it...i'll have to read it :)

  557. moparisthebest

    They are like, just renewed a cert

  558. arc has joined

  559. tim@boese-ban.de has left

  560. daniel has joined

  561. SamWhited

    Those slides were pretty excellent; now I'm even more sad I wasn't there. Thanks for the link!

  562. arc has left

  563. arc has joined

  564. pep. has joined

  565. Tobias

    what was daniel's webpage that shows what service supports which XEP?

  566. SamWhited

    Tobias: https://gultsch.de/compliance.html

  567. Tobias

    thx

  568. Alex has left

  569. nyco has left

  570. nyco has joined

  571. SamWhited

    Tobias: Added it; although pretty soon these will need to be updated to "2017 compliance suites": https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/335

  572. Alex has joined

  573. Tobias

    SamWhited, thx...currently proof reading my mail about the talk and will send it in a bit..looking forward to a healthy discussion and ideally rather soon actions

  574. SamWhited

    Tobias ++; I'm looking forward to that. I'll try to be productive and not just gripe :)

  575. Tobias

    sent..didn't know if jdev or standards would be better...so i send it to both..but probably makes sense to continue the discussion on one of the lists

  576. Holger

    There's a version of Daniel's table ranked by greenness BTW: https://gultsch.de/compliance_ranked.html

  577. Tobias

    Holger, damn..wanted to link to that...thanks

  578. lonerz1 has left

  579. Tobias has joined

  580. Guus has left

  581. Tobias has joined

  582. SamWhited

    Tobias: I added compliance suites/encryption to the council's agenda too. I think we should discuss it as a group, even thoug technically the PR doesn't need discussion.

  583. SamWhited

    Obviously I have views about what we should do, but I think it's important that we get this one right, so I'd like everyones feedback before merging that PR.

  584. Guus has left

  585. beni has left

  586. Zash

    SamWhited: I think Conversations does 377 actually

  587. SamWhited

    Zash: Does it? I've been meaning to add it thinking it wasn't in there yet

  588. Guus has left

  589. SamWhited

    I haven't been paying as much attention lately though, so I could have missed it quite easily

  590. SamWhited

    Oh hey, yup, there's a bunch of references that look about right in the source. Nifty.

  591. Guus has left

  592. Zash

    Should be a checkbox or something when you block someone.

  593. SamWhited

    Maybe it doesn't show up because I have nothing to handle it on my server. I should add that plugin you made a while back.

  594. Zash

    The prosody module I wrote doesn't do anything besides loudly logging it yet tho.

  595. Zash

    And fires an event so you can write another module to do .. something .. sensible perhaps

  596. SamWhited

    Yah, not sure what I'd actually do with it yet. Maybe just collect stats for pretty graphs later.

  597. Zash

    Kinda tricky when we're doing Real Time(tm) things in that we might not know what the spammer/abuser sent because we already delivered and forgot all about it.

  598. Zash

    Otherwise we could do spam filter training

  599. Ge0rG

    Wow, all it takes to get people started about Easy XMPP is a 33c3 talk?

  600. Zash

    Started with what?

  601. SamWhited

    What's Easy XMPP?

  602. mathieui

    Ge0rG, yeah, I thought about that :D

  603. mathieui

    you need a better marketing

  604. goffi has left

  605. mathieui

    I mean, I had https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Easy_Onboarding open even before hearing about that talk

  606. Ge0rG

    SamWhited, https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Easy_Onboarding

  607. winfried has left

  608. jere has joined

  609. Ge0rG

    https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Easy_XMPP has some more, but it's lacking group chats

  610. Tobias

    Ge0rG, there have been some XMPP devs interest in Easy XMPP before, Swift was started to provide an easier to use/better UX client in comparison to Psi.

  611. Ge0rG

    mathieui, I'm sure the term is right, we just need more attention from developers...

  612. daniel

    We need more developers

  613. daniel

    Developers. Developers. Developers.

  614. Ge0rG

    Or maybe we need a different front person. My style just isn't popular

  615. Tobias

    daniel, yeah..especially that

  616. Tobias

    daniel, if only half of the room where involved in XMPP client dev :P

  617. Zash

    Marketing marketing marketing

  618. daniel

    Framing

  619. goffi has left

  620. Ge0rG

    Flaming?! I'm in!

  621. Holger has left

  622. Ge0rG

    Could somebody please send a link to https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Easy_Onboarding to the ML thread? I'm on my mobile device and only have half the thread available...

  623. Zash

    Hey MattJ

  624. Holger has left

  625. Holger has left

  626. nyco has left

  627. nyco has joined

  628. jere has left

  629. jere has joined

  630. Tobias has joined

  631. lonerz1 has joined

  632. jere has left

  633. jere has joined