XSF Discussion - 2017-01-23

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  162. Guus

    Does anyone have experience with (XMPP-based) solutions that lets you add "chat" to existing web-based platforms?

  163. Zash

    Like converse.js?

  164. Guus

    I'm looking at stuff like CoBrowser and SmartSupp - those appear to be oriented towards "chat with one of our employees" - rather than allowing users to chat amongst themselves.

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  166. Guus

    Converse.JS is "simply" a web-based client. I'm wondering about a one-stope solution, of sorts, that includes server and client components

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  169. Flow

    Guus: isn't that what Jive's workgroup xep152 does?

  170. Guus

    Flow: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0152.html "Reachability Address"? Are you referring to the Workgroup stuff (the FastPath implementation)?

  171. Flow

    Guus: typo, sorry, xep142,

  172. Guus

    Flow: that's more of the "ask our employee" stuff, for which I can find various service providers. I'm interested in providers that put more focus on the user-to-user / community aspect

  173. Guus

    (Yeah, 142 is the FastPath XEP, indeed)

  174. Guus

    I'm trying to find a list of pros and cons, to compare "run your own server + chat implementations" vs. "use some kind of online service provider that you can integrate with"

  175. Ge0rG

    I wonder why Kaiwa requires a node.js server to run... can't it operate like converse as a client-only thing?

  176. Zash

    Yeah, why must all web clients require so much stuff nowdays?

  177. daniel

    Ge0rG: I think it's just the webserver that serves the js files

  178. edhelas

    Zash, what is "so much stuff" for you ?

  179. Guus

    why host things statically if you can make it overcomplicated, right? :)

  180. Zash

    Anything besides a static file server and a browser

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  182. Ge0rG

    daniel: it also seems to contain some crazy ldap frontend!? https://github.com/digicoop/kaiwa/blob/master/server.js

  183. daniel

    Ge0rG: I think the fornever fork got rid of that

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  185. Ge0rG

    daniel: "You'll need Node.js 4.0+ and npm 3+." from fornever...

  186. daniel

    Ge0rG: afaik that's just packaging and dependency resolving and stuff like that. Not actually running it

  187. Ge0rG

    daniel: the README is rather short in that regard.

  188. Ge0rG

    daniel: I can imagine that the server component does the socket forwarding to the actual server as well, due to typical web browser cross-domain limitations

  189. Ge0rG

    I'm looking for a web client that doesn't look ugly and supports at least a bunch of useful ("modern") things.

  190. Ge0rG

    Converse is just a popup, not a full page, candy is not beautiful, and kaiwa requires nodejs

  191. mathieui

    Ge0rG, movim?

  192. mathieui

    well, it’s not all-"web" so it might not fit

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  195. Zash

    Is there someone we can throw money at in exchange for a no-bullshit modern web client?

  196. Ge0rG

    mathieui: what does 'not all-"web"' mean?

  197. Guus

    yes. But it's likely going to be more money that you're willing to spend...

  198. daniel

    Zash: I'm definitely willing to participate in the money throwing process

  199. daniel

    I've been unsuccessful in finding someone who is able to get kaiwa into a usable state though

  200. mathieui

    Ge0rG, I mean, it’s an xmpp client, but it’s has a server and a client part too

  201. mathieui


  202. Kev

    Swift-Web is done with a server component, too.

  203. Zash

    Ge0rG: What's ugly about Candy btw?

  204. Ge0rG

    Zash: it's very minimalistic

  205. Zash

    Kev: Never heard of

  206. Zash

    Ge0rG: I like minimalistic

  207. Guus

    (Kev: for what purpose?)

  208. Kev

    XMPP to the browser is a nice idea, but terminating on the server makes quite a lot of things easier and/or possible. I was clearly wrong when I objected to Lloyd doing this years ago.

  209. mathieui

    candy is also abandoned and has quite a number of issues, if I remember correctly

  210. fippo

    ge0rg: because bear had not been beating up lance enough at the point in time otalk.im was written and kaiwa is just a frontend fork? :-p

  211. Kev

    Zash: You woludn't have, it's not shipped yet so I don't mention it.

  212. Guus

    Candy is limited to MUC, isn't it?

  213. Zash

    Kev: MVC with the MC part serverside?

  214. Zash

    Guus: Yes

  215. Guus

    (no rosters, no direct chats other than MUC one-on-oneś)

  216. Kev

    Guus: It does nice things like supporting browser resets and things.

  217. Kev

    Zash: Something not a million miles away from that.

  218. Ge0rG

    Kev: can't you have all the nice things with HTML5+JS SPAs?

  219. Guus

    Kev: is there any info on it online?

  220. Kev

    Guus: None, sorry.

  221. Guus

    Kev: ETA?

  222. Guus


  223. Kev

    I don't have one, sorry. I hate giving dates and being wrong. It's unlikely to be Free, though, so I suspect that means it's not interesting to you.

  224. Ge0rG

    fippo: pardon?

  225. Guus

    Kev: you might be wrong there. I mentioned above that i'm interested in paid versions of 'chat service' implementations - especially when they're more than the "click here to chat with one of our support members" types of propositions that I've found so far.

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  228. fippo

    ge0rg: there is a lot of backstory behind kaiwa and otalk.im...

  229. Ge0rG

    fippo: what I'm wondering is if it would work when served from apache, without nodejs, or if it makes sense to make a feature request for that

  230. fippo

    ge0rg: kaiwa is still developed? the reason for a node server was that webpack wasn't available back when this stuff was written and webpack makes it very easy to generate a static file that you can upload

  231. Ge0rG

    fippo: I don't know if it is still developed.

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  243. Holger

    The ForNeVeR fork (<https://github.com/ForNeVeR/Kaiwa>) is still somewhat alive.

  244. Ge0rG

    But also requires nodejs.

  245. Ge0rG

    All I want is a nice web frontend to xmpp :>

  246. Zash

    If you want something done, you usually have to do it yourself.

  247. Holger

    Ge0rG: I think there was a way to serve the ForNeVeR fork statically. But it might be undocumented. Or nonexistent.

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  251. Ge0rG

    Zash: I can't do everything myself.

  252. MattJ

    Me neither

  253. Ge0rG

    MattJ: which reminds me... we have a new week now! :P

  254. MattJ


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  256. Zash

    Is the XSF ical file being update properly now? poke SamWhited?

  257. Zash

    files* maybe?

  258. Zash

    Looks like

  259. Ge0rG

    MattJ: I've been hunting a MUC joining bug in yaxim for half a year or so, and I'm pretty sure it is caused by mod_throttle_presence. But essentially I can't prove it until the latter is fixed :(

  260. Zash

    Ge0rG: Try the other one I published recently?

  261. Tobias

    Zash, just would nee a nice JS based display widget on xmpp.org website :)

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  263. SamWhited

    Zash: we have an ical file?

  264. SamWhited

    (actually, someone told me about this, but I have no idea where it is or where it comes from)

  265. Zash


  266. Zash

    And it has recent XEPs in it

  267. Ge0rG

    Now we only need an RSS feed! Let's bring 2000ies tech back to live

  268. Ge0rG

    Now we only need an RSS feed! Let's bring 2000ies tech back to life

  269. Zash

    SamWhited: whatever this is http://xmpp.org/calendar/xsf-all.ics

  270. SamWhited

    Be careful, it's been years but I still disolve into pools of tears at the mention of Google Reader… I miss my feeds.

  271. Ge0rG

    SamWhited: I'm using tt-rss for many years now. Sometimes it pays off to pick a decentralized crappy solution over a Google property.

  272. SamWhited

    I looked into that one, and vaguely remember thinking it was a security disaster waiting to happen, but that was a while ago, don't remember why. Possibly just because it's all written in PHP.

  273. Ge0rG

    SamWhited: yeah, you can't deploy PHP without http auth.

  274. Tobias

    SamWhited, back in the old days we used https://github.com/buddycloud/buddycloud-xep/blob/master/xmpp/calgen.py to generate calendars

  275. Tobias

    but that script seems to be in none of our repos today

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  277. Tobias

    who knows what other fancy tools are there in the past :)

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  374. Guus

    I tried this half a day ago, but since the other side of the world is awake now, I'll rephrase my question one more time:

  375. Guus

    I'm looking for an IM-as-a-service type of solution, (integration with web, possibly also mobile/desktop), that is not limited to "chat with one of our support staff" type of solutions. An alternative to something that you'd roll on your own as a combination of Converse/Candy et.al., a couple of desktop and mobile clients, and a server of choice. I am aware of the existence of services like smartsupp.com and cobrowser.nl, but those are very support-oriented (and limited to a web integration only, as far as I can tell). I'm looking for something that allows users the communicate amongst themselves.

  376. Guus


  377. edhelas

    Guus, Movim

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  379. Guus

    edhelas: Perhaps. I was under the impression that Movim was more of a complete social network in itself (instead of somethign that you'd easily integrate with an existing platform)?

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  385. edhelas

    well you can tune it, depends what you say about "integration"

  386. edhelas

    but if you want a mini-chat on the bottom-right of your website, no it doesn't fit

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  404. mimi89999

    Is XEP-0066 obsolete?

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  406. SamWhited

    No, but if you're using it for media then xep-0385 may be a better choice (although I don't think many people have had a chance to implement it yet)

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  427. moparisthebest

    Guus: owncloud had a client only xmpp client plugin but now it can run a server too, whole xmpp server in PHP as plugin

  428. moparisthebest

    I'm sure it's great /sarcasm :-)

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