XSF Discussion - 2017-01-23

  1. moparisthebest has left
  2. pep. has left
  3. mancho has left
  4. Sonny has left
  5. Sonny has left
  6. moparisthebest has joined
  7. arc has left
  8. arc has joined
  9. daurnimator has left
  10. daurnimator has left
  11. daurnimator has left
  12. Sonny has left
  13. Zash has joined
  14. Sonny has left
  15. Guus has left
  16. Tobias has left
  17. Tobias has left
  18. Yagiza has joined
  19. jubalh has joined
  20. tim@boese-ban.de has left
  21. Zash has left
  22. bear has joined
  23. daurnimator has left
  24. daurnimator has left
  25. jere has joined
  26. jere has left
  27. jere has joined
  28. jere has left
  29. SamWhited has left
  30. jere has joined
  31. jere has left
  32. jere has joined
  33. SamWhited has left
  34. jere has left
  35. waqas has left
  36. mancho has joined
  37. Guus has left
  38. SamWhited has left
  39. lonerz has left
  40. lonerz has joined
  41. lonerz has left
  42. lonerz has joined
  43. lonerz has left
  44. lonerz has joined
  45. Valerian has joined
  46. Valerian has left
  47. Valerian has joined
  48. daniel has left
  49. Holger has left
  50. pep. has left
  51. liebre has left
  52. xnyhps has left
  53. Holger has left
  54. Holger has left
  55. Holger has left
  56. Holger has left
  57. Holger has left
  58. Guus has left
  59. Yagiza has left
  60. Flow has joined
  61. Guus has left
  62. Yagiza has left
  63. jcbrand has joined
  64. Yagiza has left
  65. Guus has left
  66. Guus has left
  67. Guus has joined
  68. goffi has joined
  69. Steve Kille has left
  70. Steve Kille has left
  71. jcbrand has left
  72. Steve Kille has joined
  73. daniel has joined
  74. Ge0rG has left
  75. Steve Kille has left
  76. Yagiza has left
  77. Ge0rG has left
  78. Sonny has left
  79. Sonny has joined
  80. Martin has joined
  81. ralphm has left
  82. dwd has joined
  83. daurnimator has left
  84. Alex has joined
  85. daurnimator has left
  86. daurnimator has left
  87. Sonny has left
  88. Sonny has joined
  89. xyz has joined
  90. mimi89999 has left
  91. Alex has left
  92. xyz has left
  93. Alex has joined
  94. blipp has left
  95. blipp has joined
  96. xyz has joined
  97. Ge0rG has joined
  98. jcbrand has left
  99. xyz has left
  100. xyz has joined
  101. jcbrand has joined
  102. jcbrand has left
  103. xyz has left
  104. xyz has joined
  105. vanitasvitae has joined
  106. Martin has left
  107. tobias has joined
  108. tobias has left
  109. Martin has joined
  110. Ge0rG has left
  111. jubalh has joined
  112. jubalh has left
  113. xyz has left
  114. kalkin has joined
  115. jubalh has joined
  116. xyz has joined
  117. Guus has left
  118. Guus has joined
  119. xyz has left
  120. jubalh has left
  121. jubalh has left
  122. Yagiza has left
  123. xyz has joined
  124. xyz has left
  125. xyz has joined
  126. xyz has left
  127. mancho has left
  128. Martin has left
  129. Martin has joined
  130. xyz has joined
  131. winfried has joined
  132. winfried has joined
  133. winfried has left
  134. winfried has joined
  135. Valerian has left
  136. Valerian has joined
  137. xyz has left
  138. xyz has joined
  139. xyz has left
  140. xyz has joined
  141. kalkin has left
  142. kalkin has left
  143. Valerian has left
  144. kalkin has left
  145. xyz has left
  146. xyz has joined
  147. Holger has left
  148. Holger has left
  149. Holger has left
  150. Martin has left
  151. lonerz has left
  152. xyz has left
  153. Valerian has joined
  154. Valerian has left
  155. Valerian has joined
  156. Holger has left
  157. Holger has joined
  158. Yagiza has joined
  159. jere has joined
  160. daniel has left
  161. daniel has joined
  162. Guus Does anyone have experience with (XMPP-based) solutions that lets you add "chat" to existing web-based platforms?
  163. Zash Like converse.js?
  164. Guus I'm looking at stuff like CoBrowser and SmartSupp - those appear to be oriented towards "chat with one of our employees" - rather than allowing users to chat amongst themselves.
  165. mathieui has left
  166. Guus Converse.JS is "simply" a web-based client. I'm wondering about a one-stope solution, of sorts, that includes server and client components
  167. mathieui has joined
  168. vanitasvitae has left
  169. Flow Guus: isn't that what Jive's workgroup xep152 does?
  170. Guus Flow: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0152.html "Reachability Address"? Are you referring to the Workgroup stuff (the FastPath implementation)?
  171. Flow Guus: typo, sorry, xep142,
  172. Guus Flow: that's more of the "ask our employee" stuff, for which I can find various service providers. I'm interested in providers that put more focus on the user-to-user / community aspect
  173. Guus (Yeah, 142 is the FastPath XEP, indeed)
  174. Guus I'm trying to find a list of pros and cons, to compare "run your own server + chat implementations" vs. "use some kind of online service provider that you can integrate with"
  175. Ge0rG I wonder why Kaiwa requires a node.js server to run... can't it operate like converse as a client-only thing?
  176. Zash Yeah, why must all web clients require so much stuff nowdays?
  177. daniel Ge0rG: I think it's just the webserver that serves the js files
  178. edhelas Zash, what is "so much stuff" for you ?
  179. Guus why host things statically if you can make it overcomplicated, right? :)
  180. Zash Anything besides a static file server and a browser
  181. pep. has left
  182. Ge0rG daniel: it also seems to contain some crazy ldap frontend!? https://github.com/digicoop/kaiwa/blob/master/server.js
  183. daniel Ge0rG: I think the fornever fork got rid of that
  184. mancho has left
  185. Ge0rG daniel: "You'll need Node.js 4.0+ and npm 3+." from fornever...
  186. daniel Ge0rG: afaik that's just packaging and dependency resolving and stuff like that. Not actually running it
  187. Ge0rG daniel: the README is rather short in that regard.
  188. Ge0rG daniel: I can imagine that the server component does the socket forwarding to the actual server as well, due to typical web browser cross-domain limitations
  189. Ge0rG I'm looking for a web client that doesn't look ugly and supports at least a bunch of useful ("modern") things.
  190. Ge0rG Converse is just a popup, not a full page, candy is not beautiful, and kaiwa requires nodejs
  191. mathieui Ge0rG, movim?
  192. mathieui well, it’s not all-"web" so it might not fit
  193. narcode has left
  194. narcode has joined
  195. Zash Is there someone we can throw money at in exchange for a no-bullshit modern web client?
  196. Ge0rG mathieui: what does 'not all-"web"' mean?
  197. Guus yes. But it's likely going to be more money that you're willing to spend...
  198. daniel Zash: I'm definitely willing to participate in the money throwing process
  199. daniel I've been unsuccessful in finding someone who is able to get kaiwa into a usable state though
  200. mathieui Ge0rG, I mean, it’s an xmpp client, but it’s has a server and a client part too
  201. mathieui -’s
  202. Kev Swift-Web is done with a server component, too.
  203. Zash Ge0rG: What's ugly about Candy btw?
  204. Ge0rG Zash: it's very minimalistic
  205. Zash Kev: Never heard of
  206. Zash Ge0rG: I like minimalistic
  207. Guus (Kev: for what purpose?)
  208. Kev XMPP to the browser is a nice idea, but terminating on the server makes quite a lot of things easier and/or possible. I was clearly wrong when I objected to Lloyd doing this years ago.
  209. mathieui candy is also abandoned and has quite a number of issues, if I remember correctly
  210. fippo ge0rg: because bear had not been beating up lance enough at the point in time otalk.im was written and kaiwa is just a frontend fork? :-p
  211. Kev Zash: You woludn't have, it's not shipped yet so I don't mention it.
  212. Guus Candy is limited to MUC, isn't it?
  213. Zash Kev: MVC with the MC part serverside?
  214. Zash Guus: Yes
  215. Guus (no rosters, no direct chats other than MUC one-on-oneś)
  216. Kev Guus: It does nice things like supporting browser resets and things.
  217. Kev Zash: Something not a million miles away from that.
  218. Ge0rG Kev: can't you have all the nice things with HTML5+JS SPAs?
  219. Guus Kev: is there any info on it online?
  220. Kev Guus: None, sorry.
  221. Guus Kev: ETA?
  222. Guus (ballpark)
  223. Kev I don't have one, sorry. I hate giving dates and being wrong. It's unlikely to be Free, though, so I suspect that means it's not interesting to you.
  224. Ge0rG fippo: pardon?
  225. Guus Kev: you might be wrong there. I mentioned above that i'm interested in paid versions of 'chat service' implementations - especially when they're more than the "click here to chat with one of our support members" types of propositions that I've found so far.
  226. Sonny has left
  227. Sonny has joined
  228. fippo ge0rg: there is a lot of backstory behind kaiwa and otalk.im...
  229. Ge0rG fippo: what I'm wondering is if it would work when served from apache, without nodejs, or if it makes sense to make a feature request for that
  230. fippo ge0rg: kaiwa is still developed? the reason for a node server was that webpack wasn't available back when this stuff was written and webpack makes it very easy to generate a static file that you can upload
  231. Ge0rG fippo: I don't know if it is still developed.
  232. xyz has joined
  233. SamWhited has left
  234. SamWhited has joined
  235. Yagiza has left
  236. mhterres has joined
  237. Sonny has left
  238. Sonny has joined
  239. bjc has left
  240. ralphm has left
  241. SamWhited has left
  242. SamWhited has joined
  243. Holger The ForNeVeR fork (<https://github.com/ForNeVeR/Kaiwa>) is still somewhat alive.
  244. Ge0rG But also requires nodejs.
  245. Ge0rG All I want is a nice web frontend to xmpp :>
  246. Zash If you want something done, you usually have to do it yourself.
  247. Holger Ge0rG: I think there was a way to serve the ForNeVeR fork statically. But it might be undocumented. Or nonexistent.
  248. Tobias has joined
  249. SamWhited has left
  250. SamWhited has joined
  251. Ge0rG Zash: I can't do everything myself.
  252. MattJ Me neither
  253. Ge0rG MattJ: which reminds me... we have a new week now! :P
  254. MattJ :/
  255. Yagiza has joined
  256. Zash Is the XSF ical file being update properly now? poke SamWhited?
  257. Zash files* maybe?
  258. Zash Looks like
  259. Ge0rG MattJ: I've been hunting a MUC joining bug in yaxim for half a year or so, and I'm pretty sure it is caused by mod_throttle_presence. But essentially I can't prove it until the latter is fixed :(
  260. Zash Ge0rG: Try the other one I published recently?
  261. Tobias Zash, just would nee a nice JS based display widget on xmpp.org website :)
  262. Valerian has left
  263. SamWhited Zash: we have an ical file?
  264. SamWhited (actually, someone told me about this, but I have no idea where it is or where it comes from)
  265. Zash Apparnently
  266. Zash And it has recent XEPs in it
  267. Ge0rG Now we only need an RSS feed! Let's bring 2000ies tech back to live
  268. Ge0rG Now we only need an RSS feed! Let's bring 2000ies tech back to life
  269. Zash SamWhited: whatever this is http://xmpp.org/calendar/xsf-all.ics
  270. SamWhited Be careful, it's been years but I still disolve into pools of tears at the mention of Google Reader… I miss my feeds.
  271. Ge0rG SamWhited: I'm using tt-rss for many years now. Sometimes it pays off to pick a decentralized crappy solution over a Google property.
  272. SamWhited I looked into that one, and vaguely remember thinking it was a security disaster waiting to happen, but that was a while ago, don't remember why. Possibly just because it's all written in PHP.
  273. Ge0rG SamWhited: yeah, you can't deploy PHP without http auth.
  274. Tobias SamWhited, back in the old days we used https://github.com/buddycloud/buddycloud-xep/blob/master/xmpp/calgen.py to generate calendars
  275. Tobias but that script seems to be in none of our repos today
  276. jubalh has joined
  277. Tobias who knows what other fancy tools are there in the past :)
  278. ralphm has joined
  279. Yagiza has left
  280. SamWhited has left
  281. jubalh has left
  282. bjc has joined
  283. jubalh has joined
  284. daniel has left
  285. daniel has joined
  286. Ge0rG has left
  287. Lance has joined
  288. jubalh has left
  289. daniel has left
  290. daniel has joined
  291. Yagiza has joined
  292. daniel has left
  293. daniel has joined
  294. Yagiza has left
  295. ralphm has left
  296. Yagiza has joined
  297. Yagiza has left
  298. Ge0rG has joined
  299. vanitasvitae has left
  300. Guus has left
  301. tim@boese-ban.de has left
  302. Lance has left
  303. Flow has left
  304. Yagiza has joined
  305. tim@boese-ban.de has left
  306. Guus has left
  307. Yagiza has left
  308. Yagiza has joined
  309. xyz has left
  310. xyz has joined
  311. waqas has joined
  312. Valerian has joined
  313. xyz has left
  314. Yagiza has left
  315. Yagiza has joined
  316. Yagiza has left
  317. Yagiza has joined
  318. xyz has joined
  319. Yagiza has left
  320. xyz has left
  321. xyz has joined
  322. xyz has left
  323. xyz has joined
  324. daurnimator has left
  325. xyz has left
  326. Yagiza has joined
  327. Sonny has left
  328. Sonny has joined
  329. Tobias has left
  330. Yagiza has left
  331. Guus has left
  332. Steve Kille has left
  333. Steve Kille has left
  334. Sonny has left
  335. Sonny has joined
  336. Yagiza has joined
  337. Yagiza has left
  338. Steve Kille has joined
  339. liebre has joined
  340. daniel has left
  341. daniel has joined
  342. Sonny has left
  343. Sonny has joined
  344. daniel has left
  345. daniel has joined
  346. nyco has left
  347. nyco has joined
  348. Steve Kille has left
  349. SamWhited has left
  350. daniel has left
  351. daniel has joined
  352. daniel has left
  353. daniel has joined
  354. xyz has joined
  355. Sonny has left
  356. Sonny has joined
  357. waqas has left
  358. waqas has joined
  359. waqas has left
  360. waqas has joined
  361. waqas has left
  362. waqas has joined
  363. waqas has left
  364. waqas has joined
  365. Guus has left
  366. waqas has left
  367. waqas has joined
  368. waqas has left
  369. Yagiza has joined
  370. SamWhited has left
  371. Sonny has left
  372. Sonny has joined
  373. Guus has left
  374. Guus I tried this half a day ago, but since the other side of the world is awake now, I'll rephrase my question one more time:
  375. Guus I'm looking for an IM-as-a-service type of solution, (integration with web, possibly also mobile/desktop), that is not limited to "chat with one of our support staff" type of solutions. An alternative to something that you'd roll on your own as a combination of Converse/Candy et.al., a couple of desktop and mobile clients, and a server of choice. I am aware of the existence of services like smartsupp.com and cobrowser.nl, but those are very support-oriented (and limited to a web integration only, as far as I can tell). I'm looking for something that allows users the communicate amongst themselves.
  376. Guus Thoughts?
  377. edhelas Guus, Movim
  378. mancho has left
  379. Guus edhelas: Perhaps. I was under the impression that Movim was more of a complete social network in itself (instead of somethign that you'd easily integrate with an existing platform)?
  380. mancho has left
  381. mancho has joined
  382. Alex has left
  383. Alex has joined
  384. waqas has joined
  385. edhelas well you can tune it, depends what you say about "integration"
  386. edhelas but if you want a mini-chat on the bottom-right of your website, no it doesn't fit
  387. Valerian has left
  388. xyz has left
  389. pep. has left
  390. Ge0rG has left
  391. xyz has joined
  392. Ge0rG has joined
  393. Ge0rG has left
  394. vanitasvitae has left
  395. McKael has left
  396. daniel has left
  397. daniel has joined
  398. daniel has left
  399. Ge0rG has left
  400. daniel has joined
  401. goffi has left
  402. Guus has left
  403. McKael has joined
  404. mimi89999 Is XEP-0066 obsolete?
  405. Guus has left
  406. SamWhited No, but if you're using it for media then xep-0385 may be a better choice (although I don't think many people have had a chance to implement it yet)
  407. Alex has left
  408. Ge0rG has left
  409. Guus has left
  410. Alex has joined
  411. Tobias has joined
  412. Ge0rG has left
  413. daniel has left
  414. daniel has joined
  415. xyz has left
  416. dwd has left
  417. boothj5 has joined
  418. tim@boese-ban.de has joined
  419. boothj5 has left
  420. Flow has left
  421. xyz has joined
  422. Alex has left
  423. Alex has joined
  424. winfried has left
  425. winfried has joined
  426. mancho has left
  427. moparisthebest Guus: owncloud had a client only xmpp client plugin but now it can run a server too, whole xmpp server in PHP as plugin
  428. moparisthebest I'm sure it's great /sarcasm :-)
  429. Guus has left
  430. Guus has left
  431. Guus has left
  432. bjc has left
  433. xyz has left
  434. SamWhited has left
  435. edhelas has left
  436. Tobias has joined
  437. mancho has left
  438. bear has left
  439. bear has joined
  440. waqas has left
  441. lonerz has joined
  442. lonerz has left
  443. Tobias has joined
  444. Flow has left
  445. pep. has left
  446. Guus has left
  447. jubalh has joined
  448. Zash has left
  449. Alex has left
  450. Zash has left
  451. stpeter has joined
  452. vanitasvitae has left
  453. bear has left
  454. bear has joined
  455. mancho has left
  456. mancho has left
  457. waqas has joined
  458. jubalh has left