Does anyone have experience with (XMPP-based) solutions that lets you add "chat" to existing web-based platforms?
Zash
Like converse.js?
Guus
I'm looking at stuff like CoBrowser and SmartSupp - those appear to be oriented towards "chat with one of our employees" - rather than allowing users to chat amongst themselves.
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Guus
Converse.JS is "simply" a web-based client. I'm wondering about a one-stope solution, of sorts, that includes server and client components
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Flow
Guus: isn't that what Jive's workgroup xep152 does?
Guus
Flow: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0152.html "Reachability Address"? Are you referring to the Workgroup stuff (the FastPath implementation)?
Flow
Guus: typo, sorry, xep142,
Guus
Flow: that's more of the "ask our employee" stuff, for which I can find various service providers. I'm interested in providers that put more focus on the user-to-user / community aspect
Guus
(Yeah, 142 is the FastPath XEP, indeed)
Guus
I'm trying to find a list of pros and cons, to compare "run your own server + chat implementations" vs. "use some kind of online service provider that you can integrate with"
Ge0rG
I wonder why Kaiwa requires a node.js server to run... can't it operate like converse as a client-only thing?
Zash
Yeah, why must all web clients require so much stuff nowdays?
daniel
Ge0rG: I think it's just the webserver that serves the js files
edhelas
Zash, what is "so much stuff" for you ?
Guus
why host things statically if you can make it overcomplicated, right? :)
Zash
Anything besides a static file server and a browser
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Ge0rG
daniel: it also seems to contain some crazy ldap frontend!? https://github.com/digicoop/kaiwa/blob/master/server.js
daniel
Ge0rG: I think the fornever fork got rid of that
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Ge0rG
daniel: "You'll need Node.js 4.0+ and npm 3+." from fornever...
daniel
Ge0rG: afaik that's just packaging and dependency resolving and stuff like that. Not actually running it
Ge0rG
daniel: the README is rather short in that regard.
Ge0rG
daniel: I can imagine that the server component does the socket forwarding to the actual server as well, due to typical web browser cross-domain limitations
Ge0rG
I'm looking for a web client that doesn't look ugly and supports at least a bunch of useful ("modern") things.
Ge0rG
Converse is just a popup, not a full page, candy is not beautiful, and kaiwa requires nodejs
mathieui
Ge0rG, movim?
mathieui
well, it’s not all-"web" so it might not fit
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Zash
Is there someone we can throw money at in exchange for a no-bullshit modern web client?
Ge0rG
mathieui: what does 'not all-"web"' mean?
Guus
yes. But it's likely going to be more money that you're willing to spend...
daniel
Zash: I'm definitely willing to participate in the money throwing process
daniel
I've been unsuccessful in finding someone who is able to get kaiwa into a usable state though
mathieui
Ge0rG, I mean, it’s an xmpp client, but it’s has a server and a client part too
mathieui
-’s
Kev
Swift-Web is done with a server component, too.
Zash
Ge0rG: What's ugly about Candy btw?
Ge0rG
Zash: it's very minimalistic
Zash
Kev: Never heard of
Zash
Ge0rG: I like minimalistic
Guus
(Kev: for what purpose?)
Kev
XMPP to the browser is a nice idea, but terminating on the server makes quite a lot of things easier and/or possible. I was clearly wrong when I objected to Lloyd doing this years ago.
mathieui
candy is also abandoned and has quite a number of issues, if I remember correctly
fippo
ge0rg: because bear had not been beating up lance enough at the point in time otalk.im was written and kaiwa is just a frontend fork? :-p
Kev
Zash: You woludn't have, it's not shipped yet so I don't mention it.
Guus
Candy is limited to MUC, isn't it?
Zash
Kev: MVC with the MC part serverside?
Zash
Guus: Yes
Guus
(no rosters, no direct chats other than MUC one-on-oneś)
Kev
Guus: It does nice things like supporting browser resets and things.
Kev
Zash: Something not a million miles away from that.
Ge0rG
Kev: can't you have all the nice things with HTML5+JS SPAs?
Guus
Kev: is there any info on it online?
Kev
Guus: None, sorry.
Guus
Kev: ETA?
Guus
(ballpark)
Kev
I don't have one, sorry. I hate giving dates and being wrong. It's unlikely to be Free, though, so I suspect that means it's not interesting to you.
Ge0rG
fippo: pardon?
Guus
Kev: you might be wrong there. I mentioned above that i'm interested in paid versions of 'chat service' implementations - especially when they're more than the "click here to chat with one of our support members" types of propositions that I've found so far.
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fippo
ge0rg: there is a lot of backstory behind kaiwa and otalk.im...
Ge0rG
fippo: what I'm wondering is if it would work when served from apache, without nodejs, or if it makes sense to make a feature request for that
fippo
ge0rg: kaiwa is still developed? the reason for a node server was that webpack wasn't available back when this stuff was written and webpack makes it very easy to generate a static file that you can upload
Ge0rG
fippo: I don't know if it is still developed.
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Holger
The ForNeVeR fork (<https://github.com/ForNeVeR/Kaiwa>) is still somewhat alive.
Ge0rG
But also requires nodejs.
Ge0rG
All I want is a nice web frontend to xmpp :>
Zash
If you want something done, you usually have to do it yourself.
Holger
Ge0rG: I think there was a way to serve the ForNeVeR fork statically. But it might be undocumented. Or nonexistent.
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Ge0rG
Zash: I can't do everything myself.
MattJ
Me neither
Ge0rG
MattJ: which reminds me... we have a new week now! :P
MattJ
:/
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Zash
Is the XSF ical file being update properly now? poke SamWhited?
Zash
files* maybe?
Zash
Looks like
Ge0rG
MattJ: I've been hunting a MUC joining bug in yaxim for half a year or so, and I'm pretty sure it is caused by mod_throttle_presence. But essentially I can't prove it until the latter is fixed :(
Zash
Ge0rG: Try the other one I published recently?
Tobias
Zash, just would nee a nice JS based display widget on xmpp.org website :)
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SamWhited
Zash: we have an ical file?
SamWhited
(actually, someone told me about this, but I have no idea where it is or where it comes from)
Zash
Apparnently
Zash
And it has recent XEPs in it
Ge0rG
Now we only need an RSS feed! Let's bring 2000ies tech back to live✎
Ge0rG
Now we only need an RSS feed! Let's bring 2000ies tech back to life ✏
Zash
SamWhited: whatever this is http://xmpp.org/calendar/xsf-all.ics
SamWhited
Be careful, it's been years but I still disolve into pools of tears at the mention of Google Reader… I miss my feeds.
Ge0rG
SamWhited: I'm using tt-rss for many years now. Sometimes it pays off to pick a decentralized crappy solution over a Google property.
SamWhited
I looked into that one, and vaguely remember thinking it was a security disaster waiting to happen, but that was a while ago, don't remember why. Possibly just because it's all written in PHP.
Ge0rG
SamWhited: yeah, you can't deploy PHP without http auth.
Tobias
SamWhited, back in the old days we used https://github.com/buddycloud/buddycloud-xep/blob/master/xmpp/calgen.py to generate calendars
Tobias
but that script seems to be in none of our repos today
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Tobias
who knows what other fancy tools are there in the past :)
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Guus
I tried this half a day ago, but since the other side of the world is awake now, I'll rephrase my question one more time:
Guus
I'm looking for an IM-as-a-service type of solution, (integration with web, possibly also mobile/desktop), that is not limited to "chat with one of our support staff" type of solutions. An alternative to something that you'd roll on your own as a combination of Converse/Candy et.al., a couple of desktop and mobile clients, and a server of choice. I am aware of the existence of services like smartsupp.com and cobrowser.nl, but those are very support-oriented (and limited to a web integration only, as far as I can tell). I'm looking for something that allows users the communicate amongst themselves.
Guus
Thoughts?
edhelas
Guus, Movim
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Guus
edhelas: Perhaps. I was under the impression that Movim was more of a complete social network in itself (instead of somethign that you'd easily integrate with an existing platform)?
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edhelas
well you can tune it, depends what you say about "integration"
edhelas
but if you want a mini-chat on the bottom-right of your website, no it doesn't fit
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mimi89999
Is XEP-0066 obsolete?
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SamWhited
No, but if you're using it for media then xep-0385 may be a better choice (although I don't think many people have had a chance to implement it yet)
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moparisthebest
Guus: owncloud had a client only xmpp client plugin but now it can run a server too, whole xmpp server in PHP as plugin