XSF Discussion - 2017-01-24

00:01:13 SamWhited has left
00:04:43 daurnimator has left
00:05:28 SamWhited has left
00:05:29 SamWhited has joined
00:09:22 vanitasvitae has left
00:14:38 lonerz has joined
00:17:12 mancho has left
00:21:30 stpeter has left
00:22:43 SouL has left
00:24:37 daurnimator has left
00:26:12 jubalh has left
00:26:35 daurnimator has left
00:32:57 stpeter has joined
00:36:14 Tobias has left
00:37:40 daurnimator has left
00:44:18 lonerz has left
01:07:15 SamWhited has left
01:07:16 SamWhited has joined
01:21:04 Tobias has left
01:25:03 Tobias has left
01:26:09 lonerz has joined
01:48:39 Guus has left
01:57:11 Yagiza has joined
01:57:35 SouL has joined
02:05:05 pep. has left
02:20:52 daurnimator has left
02:23:04 daurnimator has left
02:32:39 daurnimator has left
02:42:00 Guus has left
02:43:11 liebre has left
02:47:59 SamWhited has left
03:10:30 Yagiza has joined
03:24:55 stpeter has left
03:30:50 daurnimator has left
03:30:56 Guus has left
03:54:09 daurnimator has left
03:55:34 daurnimator has left
04:02:08 Yagiza has left
04:09:59 jere has left
04:10:05 jere has joined
04:21:18 waqas has left
04:30:12 mancho has joined
04:34:03 daurnimator has left
04:45:39 SamWhited has left
04:47:04 SamWhited has left
05:02:38 daurnimator has left
05:03:59 jere has left
05:14:02 arc has left
05:14:03 arc has joined
05:20:03 arc has left
05:20:10 arc has joined
05:26:43 Sonny has left
05:26:56 Sonny has joined
05:40:56 Zash has joined
05:52:35 SamWhited has left
06:01:39 bjc has joined
06:05:13 goffi has joined
06:11:18 Guus has left
06:14:48 waqas has joined
06:16:52 waqas has left
06:18:48 Guus has left
06:21:23 daurnimator has left
06:23:56 daurnimator has left
06:33:05 daurnimator has left
06:42:26 daurnimator has left
06:42:48 Zash has joined
06:43:25 winfried has left
06:43:34 winfried has joined
06:44:08 Guus has left
06:50:07 daniel has left
06:55:46 mimi89999 has joined
06:57:48 ralphm has joined
06:58:29 Guus has left
07:04:31 xnyhps has joined
07:05:26 Guus has left
07:05:56 nyco has left
07:06:01 nyco has joined
07:10:28 Guus has left
07:12:27 Zash has left
07:12:29 bear has left
07:13:24 daurnimator has left
07:13:56 lonerz has left
07:14:00 Guus has left
07:19:17 lonerz has joined
07:22:38 lonerz has left
07:37:03 Ge0rG has left
07:39:20 Guus has left
07:43:30 Flow has joined
07:50:58 daurnimator has left
07:54:04 Zash has joined
07:54:20 Tobias has joined
07:59:25 blipp has left
07:59:30 blipp has joined
08:00:35 Flow has left
08:02:16 Ge0rG has left
08:05:42 edhelas has joined
08:09:52 dwd has joined
08:10:37 dwd has left
08:10:53 dwd has joined
08:16:17 Zash has left
08:16:32 Zash has joined
08:17:55 Steve Kille has left
08:19:13 Steve Kille has left
08:23:35 Steve Kille has joined
08:24:19 blipp has left
08:24:33 blipp has joined
08:27:10 daniel has joined
08:32:26 Valerian has joined
08:35:06 pep. has left
08:36:21 Guus has left
08:36:38 Flow has joined
08:38:39 Guus has left
08:38:40 Guus has joined
08:41:04 jcbrand has joined
08:45:09 Sonny has left
08:45:12 Sonny has joined
08:47:37 Ge0rG has left
09:00:00 Ge0rG has left
09:01:18 arc has left
09:01:19 arc has joined
09:04:45 Sonny has left
09:04:46 Sonny has joined
09:07:35 Lance has joined
09:08:13 Lance has left
09:08:25 Lance has joined
09:14:24 Lance has left
09:15:22 vanitasvitae has left
09:19:21 Alex has joined
09:29:33 daniel has left
09:29:41 daniel has joined
09:33:20 Ge0rG has left
09:36:49 intosi has joined
09:42:52 Alex has left
09:44:12 Alex has joined
09:47:22 Ge0rG has left
09:51:05 mimi89999 has left
10:01:27 Ge0rG Yay! I am not alone! https://gist.github.com/ValdikSS/30f866602413c036e4e6924c1895b838
10:10:23 goffi Ge0rG: you are not alone willing to improve clients, but you should understand that we (clients developers) have limited time and resources.
10:11:00 mathieui I think Ge0rG understands that just as much as other client developers
10:11:07 Ge0rG mathieui: or even more so.
10:11:14 Ge0rG The last yaxim release has been two years ago.
10:11:37 Ge0rG But I have good news to announce. I found a critical vulnerability in yaxim that requires an immediate release!
10:12:24 Zash Nothing like a security issue to speed up the release schedule :D
10:12:32 mathieui slowly fades out in the background
10:16:38 Guus has left
10:20:56 mancho has left
10:21:08 Vinilox has joined
10:21:26 Steve Kille has left
10:26:01 Guus has joined
10:41:36 Steve Kille has left
10:45:13 Guus has left
10:47:08 Guus has joined
10:52:13 intosi has left
10:52:16 intosi has joined
10:53:16 Guus has left
10:54:48 Guus has joined
10:56:38 Ge0rG does anyone know if xabber is still considered as maintained?
10:57:15 Flow Ge0rG: yes, gregory is very active
10:57:37 Flow he's contributing to smack as well as commiting to xabber
10:57:38 Ge0rG Flow: do you happen to have his jid?
10:57:49 mancho has left
10:58:13 Flow No, I'd contact him via mail
10:58:32 Flow btw, the development seems to happen in the 'develop' branch and not in 'master': https://github.com/redsolution/xabber-android/tree/develop
10:58:45 Flow Which is a pitty as it makes the project appear inactive while it isn't
10:59:01 Flow uh, grigory that is
11:05:02 Valerian has left
11:19:06 Valerian has joined
11:19:14 Ge0rG has joined
11:19:34 Valerian has left
11:19:48 Valerian has joined
11:19:53 Steve Kille has left
11:25:07 liebre has joined
11:30:05 Guus has left
11:31:41 Guus has joined
11:40:05 Valerian has left
11:40:53 intosi has left
11:41:55 intosi has joined
11:44:44 daniel has left
11:44:54 daniel has joined
11:46:57 Sonny has left
11:47:01 Sonny has joined
11:49:49 kalkin has left
11:52:18 Ge0rG O tempora, o mores! Some mediated MUC invitations contain <x xmlns="jabber:x:conference"/>, despite not being required, others don't.
11:53:05 moparisthebest has left
11:53:08 moparisthebest has joined
11:53:28 Ge0rG is that a groupchat 1.0 invitation?
11:53:59 Zash Yes, and also direct MUC invitation.
11:54:24 Ge0rG which have a different schema.
11:55:05 Ge0rG the MUC code I inherited first checks for presence of <x xmlns="jabber:x:conference"/>, then parses <x xmlns="http://jabber.org/protocol/muc#user"><invite /></x>
11:55:23 Ge0rG which is bound to fail on non-groupchat1-servers and for direct invitations
11:55:46 liebre has left
11:57:18 Sonny has left
12:09:14 Steve Kille has left
12:12:04 Sonny has joined
12:15:06 Valerian has joined
12:35:30 Sonny has left
12:35:31 Sonny has joined
12:42:37 Ge0rG has left
12:47:26 Guus has left
12:48:42 Guus has joined
12:52:10 Guus has left
12:52:12 Guus has joined
13:03:54 Ge0rG has left
13:07:10 Ge0rG has left
13:08:47 intosi has left
13:08:51 intosi has joined
13:11:13 Ge0rG has left
13:15:18 Yagiza has joined
13:17:50 mancho has left
13:55:23 Guus has left
13:55:24 Guus has joined
14:02:02 Alex has left
14:04:46 Ge0rG has left
14:05:38 jere has joined
14:06:27 waqas has joined
14:07:28 SamWhited has left
14:07:30 SamWhited has joined
14:12:37 vanitasvitae has left
14:14:46 daurnimator has left
14:15:07 Guus has left
14:15:09 Guus has joined
14:16:27 daurnimator has left
14:22:37 Steve Kille has left
14:23:26 Guus has left
14:23:27 Guus has joined
14:25:17 Steve Kille has joined
14:30:14 Sonny has left
14:30:21 Sonny has joined
14:31:10 Zash fippo, do you have a socket library with MSG_PEEK support?
14:36:47 Ge0rG has left
14:37:03 waqas has left
14:42:29 Alex has joined
14:54:42 Tobias Zash, it's supported by BSDs and Linux, end even abstraction libs like libuv
14:55:18 Zash High level socket library*
14:55:24 Zash LuaSocket doesn't afaik
14:55:32 SamWhited has left
14:55:33 SamWhited has joined
14:57:09 Tobias libuv is pretty high level
14:58:42 fippo zash: proper C and good old select() :-)
15:04:02 Ge0rG has left
15:05:29 pep. has left
15:09:37 fippo zash: it doesn't have to be peek. if you can get your first batch of tcp data and then decide whether to put it into openssl or your xml parser that is sufficient. i found peek very convenient for the way i dealt with openssl (not using bios... a decade later i know how to do that too :-))
15:11:28 mancho has left
15:18:35 daurnimator has left
15:19:18 daurnimator has left
15:21:38 Ge0rG has left
15:22:34 moparisthebest and that's a nifty feature, but I just let sslh handle all that for me
15:23:27 moparisthebest because I don't want an xmpp server doing xml and TLS on 443, I want https, imaps, smtps, xmpps, ircs etc etc etc all on 443
15:29:30 Holger sslh is nice indeed, except that it currently only supports select() or fork().
15:29:30 mhterres has left
15:30:28 Holger It should just use libev or something ...
15:32:31 moparisthebest he's very receptive to patches Holger, wink wink :)
15:33:33 moparisthebest haproxy supposedly supports doing the same stuff and I think it uses libev and zero-copy stuff etc
15:33:41 moparisthebest I haven't tried it though
15:34:09 Zash libev, libuv, libevent hrrrrr
15:34:32 Holger moparisthebest: :-) Yes I was going to add libev support next time I'm bored.
15:34:40 Tobias Zash, yeah...all the same stuff that requires to give up runtime control :/
15:35:19 Zash I'll just write my own network lib, with hookers, and blackjack!
15:35:20 Holger moparisthebest: Should be really simple.
15:35:41 Tobias bite my shiny little network lib :P
15:35:57 moparisthebest I'm hoping you get bored soon Holger , the sslh code is rather nice for C in my opinion, I'm not really a C developer
15:36:31 Zash Why hasn't that moved into systemd yet?
15:36:34 Tobias how can you judge the niceness of C code, when you're not really a C developer?
15:36:48 Tobias Zash, too few CVE potential
15:36:53 Tobias Zash, too small CVE potential
15:37:14 moparisthebest I mean, I write C code sometimes, but I'm primarily a Java developer
15:37:26 moparisthebest and some C code makes me wince and other looks nice :)
15:37:50 Zash Tobias: TLS support in the socket activation bits of the init system? Surely you can get a few CVEs out of that?
15:39:18 Tobias Zash, but it seems they go for low hanging CVEs instead of complicated TLS/socket CVEs ...as soon as OpenSSL and systemd reach the same code quality level they could merge that in...running OpenSSL code in PID 1, a dream come true
15:45:02 intosi moparisthebest: isn't that true in any language?
15:45:52 moparisthebest intosi, yes of course, I was only commenting that in my opinion the sslh code looked like nice C code
15:45:58 intosi Bad coders will create awful code, no matter how nice the language. C doesn't only hand you the gun, it detaults to pointing it at your feet, making bad coding that much more obvious, but bad devs will go at lenghts to point guns towards feet.
15:51:52 waqas has joined
16:01:09 kaboom has joined
16:01:21 kaboom has left
16:01:23 kaboom has joined
16:04:31 kaboom has left
16:10:14 jubalh has joined
16:11:38 Guus has left
16:11:40 Guus has joined
16:18:25 winfried has joined
16:18:28 winfried has joined
16:24:00 jcbrand has left
16:34:05 mimi89999 has left
16:41:47 jubalh has left
16:42:06 xyz has joined
16:44:53 jubalh has joined
16:45:13 tim@boese-ban.de has left
16:49:46 Guus has left
16:49:47 Guus has joined
16:51:39 Ge0rG has left
16:58:54 mimi89999 has left
16:58:54 mimi89999 has left
16:59:59 mimi89999 has joined
17:01:18 mimi89999 has left
17:01:18 mimi89999 has left
17:01:50 mimi89999 has joined
17:01:51 xyz has left
17:04:52 Yagiza has left
17:05:16 daniel has left
17:05:23 daniel has joined
17:05:32 Ge0rG intosi: C is rather easy to use correctly when compared to C++
17:06:09 mancho has left
17:07:22 Zash pointer to pointer to array of pointer to structs full of pointers to pointers hurts my head tho
17:09:24 daniel has left
17:09:33 daniel has joined
17:09:47 Holger Actually it's one of the few languages that feels like it more or less completely fits into my brain.
17:10:27 Holger Unlike these C++/Scala/whatever monsters.
17:11:07 Zash Sure, yeah. C and Lua <3
17:11:31 Zash C with moderate use of pointer indirection :)
17:11:40 Holger Yes C and Lua, and Erlang falls into that category as well :-) Most others don't.
17:14:46 Sonny has left
17:14:47 Sonny has joined
17:14:53 Ge0rG Zash: arrays in C are a lie!
17:15:17 kalkin You guys should try forth. Its so easy to implement it itself in asm.
17:15:59 Zash Ge0rG: No, all memory is a giant array.
17:16:05 kalkin It's minimal and your software ends up written in a DSL like language which makes fits your software
17:16:26 kalkin S/makes//
17:16:46 Zash So many languages. So few ideas about what to do with them.
17:16:52 Ge0rG kalkin: I've written a robot control application in Z80 Forth some 20 years ago. Most find some time to blog it
17:17:07 Ge0rG *must
17:17:10 MattJ http://angg.twu.net/miniforth-article.html
17:17:45 kalkin https://github.com/nornagon/jonesforth/blob/master/jonesforth.S
17:17:54 kalkin Ge0rG: 😎
17:18:11 Ge0rG Zash: each memory, but not all memory! 😀
17:18:41 Ge0rG God, I'm old.
17:19:17 Zash throws a handfull of tiny magnetic rings at Ge0rG
17:19:39 intosi Wait, I need to fix things on my SPARC, glad Openboot has forth built in ;)
17:20:17 xyz has joined
17:24:13 Ge0rG Zash: damn it, you just made me realize that /me notifications in yaxim are broken.
17:24:39 Zash Ge0rG: You are welcome
17:24:59 SamWhited has left
17:26:01 Lance has joined
17:26:50 xyz has left
17:27:09 Ge0rG Zash: thanks! ☺️
17:28:18 Zash Ge0rG: Speaking of which, is Yaxim still built with Smack versions from before SCRAM was implemented?
17:28:18 Holger has left
17:29:58 SamWhited has left
17:30:51 dwd Both major C++ projects I've done recently went sailing through COverity et al without anything major being found. OTOH, their C dependencies were pretty scary.
17:36:59 daniel has left
17:37:06 daniel has joined
17:39:06 daniel has left
17:39:17 daniel has joined
17:41:21 Ge0rG Zash: smack 3.something
17:41:49 daniel has left
17:41:59 daniel has joined
17:43:22 blipp has left
17:43:26 blipp has joined
17:44:54 bra has left
17:45:43 Valerian has left
17:45:43 Valerian has joined
17:46:03 daniel has left
17:46:13 daniel has joined
17:48:59 bra has joined
17:49:32 daniel has left
17:49:42 daniel has joined
17:50:04 Valerian has left
17:51:07 daniel has left
17:51:21 daniel has joined
17:52:27 Alex has left
17:53:31 daniel has left
17:53:42 daniel has joined
17:53:56 mimi89999 has left
17:54:43 holger has joined
17:55:56 holger has left
17:56:05 holger has joined
17:56:11 holger has left
17:56:23 holger has joined
17:56:28 holger has left
17:58:57 Lance has left
18:00:12 Steve Kille has left
18:00:26 Steve Kille has left
18:03:30 Sonny has left
18:03:32 Sonny has joined
18:03:44 Steve Kille has joined
18:03:48 bra has left
18:03:57 bra has joined
18:04:12 bra has left
18:05:35 bra has joined
18:05:57 bra has left
18:06:49 bra has joined
18:07:17 bra has left
18:08:00 bra has joined
18:08:33 daniel has left
18:08:41 daniel has joined
18:09:26 daniel has left
18:09:37 daniel has joined
18:11:53 SamWhited has left
18:13:03 daniel has left
18:13:14 daniel has joined
18:14:28 Sonny has left
18:14:29 Sonny has joined
18:15:53 arc has left
18:15:54 arc has joined
18:16:10 Sonny has left
18:16:37 Sonny has joined
18:19:54 bra has left
18:20:17 Steve Kille has left
18:21:14 mancho has left
18:22:30 daniel has left
18:22:38 Sonny has left
18:22:39 Sonny has joined
18:22:41 daniel has joined
18:23:30 Valerian has joined
18:23:40 daniel has left
18:23:50 daniel has joined
18:23:58 bra has joined
18:26:16 Valerian has left
18:26:17 Valerian has joined
18:32:18 Guus has left
18:32:46 Guus has joined
18:33:05 daurnimator has left
18:47:56 daniel has left
18:47:58 bra has left
18:47:59 bra has joined
18:48:04 daniel has joined
18:49:38 intosi has left
18:51:39 daniel has left
18:51:49 daniel has joined
18:53:14 Guus has left
18:53:48 Guus has joined
18:57:02 Guus has left
18:58:06 Sonny has left
18:58:07 Sonny has joined
18:58:26 Guus has joined
19:01:34 daniel has left
19:01:45 daniel has joined
19:03:38 Sonny has left
19:04:17 Sonny has joined
19:09:53 jubalh has joined
19:09:57 intosi has joined
19:14:43 mancho has left
19:19:52 Flow has joined
19:20:17 daniel has left
19:20:22 daniel has joined
19:23:53 Guus has left
19:24:08 Guus has joined
19:28:54 jubalh has left
19:33:54 Guus has left
19:34:28 Guus has joined
19:48:21 bear has joined
19:49:49 pep. has left
20:04:32 Flow has left
20:06:24 intosi has left
20:08:20 liebre has joined
20:09:05 liebre has left
20:10:49 Valerian has left
20:14:09 intosi has joined
20:14:59 Alex has left
20:15:24 lonerz has joined
20:15:41 arc has left
20:15:58 arc has joined
20:16:20 Alex has joined
20:23:11 Flow has joined
20:31:25 Flow has left
20:35:07 dwd has left
20:38:29 Ge0rG has left
20:42:32 lonerz has left
20:45:27 Alex has left
20:47:05 Ge0rG has left
20:50:57 Alex has joined
20:51:53 jubalh has joined
20:52:14 jubalh has left
20:56:55 intosi has left
21:00:53 jubalh has joined
21:06:39 Guus has left
21:07:19 Guus has joined
21:08:55 waqas has left
21:09:05 waqas has joined
21:10:48 SamWhited has left
21:11:20 intosi has joined
21:14:20 SamWhited has left
21:14:22 SamWhited has joined
21:29:36 SamWhited has left
21:29:42 SamWhited has joined
21:31:01 Tobias i don't get the value of default ports if you have a requirement for SRV lookup anyway
21:35:38 pep. has left
21:36:02 jubalh has joined
21:37:48 intosi has left
21:39:37 Flow has joined
21:43:27 MattJ I don't get the value of ports if you tunnel everything over 443
21:45:11 intosi has joined
21:45:25 Tobias I don't get the value of firewalls, if you move all applications to a single port
21:45:46 mancho has left
21:46:30 Tobias MattJ, was more refering to standards ML discussion about new direct TLS only ports for C2S and S2S xmpp
21:51:18 SamWhited has left
21:51:20 SamWhited has joined
21:51:51 goffi has left
21:55:09 blipp has left
21:55:21 blipp has joined
21:57:50 moparisthebest has joined
22:03:17 intosi has left
22:04:32 Ge0rG the bike shedding debate about whether real tls is more securer than start tls?
22:04:51 Ge0rG we all know that startssl is insecure since it was bought by China
22:08:56 intosi has joined
22:19:53 Flow has joined
22:38:30 moparisthebest Tobias: yea I don't think default ports are useful there either
22:41:08 Ge0rG just default to 443!
22:54:17 jere has joined
22:59:47 intosi has left
23:00:07 daniel has left
23:00:14 daniel has joined
23:02:27 Alex has left
23:12:03 daniel has left
23:12:13 daniel has joined
23:12:26 moparisthebest There you go Ge0rG ! :-) you are getting it now
23:18:45 SamWhited has left
23:20:57 dwd has joined
23:21:47 dwd has left
23:22:01 dwd has joined
23:27:24 stpeter has joined
23:29:07 vanitasvitae has left
23:42:30 waqas has left
23:42:37 waqas has joined
23:44:34 mancho has left
23:47:07 blipp has left
23:47:11 blipp has joined
23:49:57 SamWhited has left
23:49:58 SamWhited has joined