XSF Discussion - 2017-01-24

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10:01:27 Ge0rG Yay! I am not alone! https://gist.github.com/ValdikSS/30f866602413c036e4e6924c1895b838
10:10:23 goffi Ge0rG: you are not alone willing to improve clients, but you should understand that we (clients developers) have limited time and resources.
10:11:00 mathieui I think Ge0rG understands that just as much as other client developers
10:11:07 Ge0rG mathieui: or even more so.
10:11:14 Ge0rG The last yaxim release has been two years ago.
10:11:37 Ge0rG But I have good news to announce. I found a critical vulnerability in yaxim that requires an immediate release!
10:12:24 Zash Nothing like a security issue to speed up the release schedule :D
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10:56:38 Ge0rG does anyone know if xabber is still considered as maintained?
10:57:15 Flow Ge0rG: yes, gregory is very active
10:57:37 Flow he's contributing to smack as well as commiting to xabber
10:57:38 Ge0rG Flow: do you happen to have his jid?
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10:58:13 Flow No, I'd contact him via mail
10:58:32 Flow btw, the development seems to happen in the 'develop' branch and not in 'master': https://github.com/redsolution/xabber-android/tree/develop
10:58:45 Flow Which is a pitty as it makes the project appear inactive while it isn't
10:59:01 Flow uh, grigory that is
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11:52:18 Ge0rG O tempora, o mores! Some mediated MUC invitations contain <x xmlns="jabber:x:conference"/>, despite not being required, others don't.
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11:53:28 Ge0rG is that a groupchat 1.0 invitation?
11:53:59 Zash Yes, and also direct MUC invitation.
11:54:24 Ge0rG which have a different schema.
11:55:05 Ge0rG the MUC code I inherited first checks for presence of <x xmlns="jabber:x:conference"/>, then parses <x xmlns="http://jabber.org/protocol/muc#user"><invite /></x>
11:55:23 Ge0rG which is bound to fail on non-groupchat1-servers and for direct invitations
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14:31:10 Zash fippo, do you have a socket library with MSG_PEEK support?
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14:54:42 Tobias Zash, it's supported by BSDs and Linux, end even abstraction libs like libuv
14:55:18 Zash High level socket library*
14:55:24 Zash LuaSocket doesn't afaik
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14:57:09 Tobias libuv is pretty high level
14:58:42 fippo zash: proper C and good old select() :-)
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15:09:37 fippo zash: it doesn't have to be peek. if you can get your first batch of tcp data and then decide whether to put it into openssl or your xml parser that is sufficient. i found peek very convenient for the way i dealt with openssl (not using bios... a decade later i know how to do that too :-))
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15:22:34 moparisthebest and that's a nifty feature, but I just let sslh handle all that for me
15:23:27 moparisthebest because I don't want an xmpp server doing xml and TLS on 443, I want https, imaps, smtps, xmpps, ircs etc etc etc all on 443
15:29:30 Holger sslh is nice indeed, except that it currently only supports select() or fork().
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15:30:28 Holger It should just use libev or something ...
15:32:31 moparisthebest he's very receptive to patches Holger, wink wink :)
15:33:33 moparisthebest haproxy supposedly supports doing the same stuff and I think it uses libev and zero-copy stuff etc
15:33:41 moparisthebest I haven't tried it though
15:34:09 Zash libev, libuv, libevent hrrrrr
15:34:32 Holger moparisthebest: :-) Yes I was going to add libev support next time I'm bored.
15:34:40 Tobias Zash, yeah...all the same stuff that requires to give up runtime control :/
15:35:19 Zash I'll just write my own network lib, with hookers, and blackjack!
15:35:20 Holger moparisthebest: Should be really simple.
15:35:41 Tobias bite my shiny little network lib :P
15:35:57 moparisthebest I'm hoping you get bored soon Holger , the sslh code is rather nice for C in my opinion, I'm not really a C developer
15:36:31 Zash Why hasn't that moved into systemd yet?
15:36:34 Tobias how can you judge the niceness of C code, when you're not really a C developer?
15:36:48 Tobias ~~Zash, too few CVE potential~~ ✎
15:36:53 Tobias Zash, too small CVE potential ✏
15:37:14 moparisthebest I mean, I write C code sometimes, but I'm primarily a Java developer
15:37:26 moparisthebest and some C code makes me wince and other looks nice :)
15:37:50 Zash Tobias: TLS support in the socket activation bits of the init system? Surely you can get a few CVEs out of that?
15:39:18 Tobias Zash, but it seems they go for low hanging CVEs instead of complicated TLS/socket CVEs ...as soon as OpenSSL and systemd reach the same code quality level they could merge that in...running OpenSSL code in PID 1, a dream come true
15:45:02 intosi moparisthebest: isn't that true in any language?
15:45:52 moparisthebest intosi, yes of course, I was only commenting that in my opinion the sslh code looked like nice C code
15:45:58 intosi Bad coders will create awful code, no matter how nice the language. C doesn't only hand you the gun, it detaults to pointing it at your feet, making bad coding that much more obvious, but bad devs will go at lenghts to point guns towards feet.
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17:05:32 Ge0rG intosi: C is rather easy to use correctly when compared to C++
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17:07:22 Zash pointer to pointer to array of pointer to structs full of pointers to pointers hurts my head tho
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17:09:47 Holger Actually it's one of the few languages that feels like it more or less completely fits into my brain.
17:10:27 Holger Unlike these C++/Scala/whatever monsters.
17:11:07 Zash Sure, yeah. C and Lua <3
17:11:31 Zash C with moderate use of pointer indirection :)
17:11:40 Holger Yes C and Lua, and Erlang falls into that category as well :-) Most others don't.
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17:14:53 Ge0rG Zash: arrays in C are a lie!
17:15:17 kalkin You guys should try forth. Its so easy to implement it itself in asm.
17:15:59 Zash Ge0rG: No, all memory is a giant array.
17:16:05 kalkin It's minimal and your software ends up written in a DSL like language which makes fits your software
17:16:26 kalkin S/makes//
17:16:46 Zash So many languages. So few ideas about what to do with them.
17:16:52 Ge0rG kalkin: I've written a robot control application in Z80 Forth some 20 years ago. Most find some time to blog it
17:17:07 Ge0rG *must
17:17:10 MattJ http://angg.twu.net/miniforth-article.html
17:17:45 kalkin https://github.com/nornagon/jonesforth/blob/master/jonesforth.S
17:17:54 kalkin Ge0rG: 😎
17:18:11 Ge0rG Zash: each memory, but not all memory! 😀
17:18:41 Ge0rG God, I'm old.
17:19:17 Zash throws a handfull of tiny magnetic rings at Ge0rG
17:19:39 intosi Wait, I need to fix things on my SPARC, glad Openboot has forth built in ;)
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17:24:13 Ge0rG Zash: damn it, you just made me realize that /me notifications in yaxim are broken.
17:24:39 Zash Ge0rG: You are welcome
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17:27:09 Ge0rG Zash: thanks! ☺️
17:28:18 Zash Ge0rG: Speaking of which, is Yaxim still built with Smack versions from before SCRAM was implemented?
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17:30:51 dwd Both major C++ projects I've done recently went sailing through COverity et al without anything major being found. OTOH, their C dependencies were pretty scary.
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17:41:21 Ge0rG Zash: smack 3.something
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21:31:01 Tobias i don't get the value of default ports if you have a requirement for SRV lookup anyway
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21:43:27 MattJ I don't get the value of ports if you tunnel everything over 443
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21:45:25 Tobias I don't get the value of firewalls, if you move all applications to a single port
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21:46:30 Tobias MattJ, was more refering to standards ML discussion about new direct TLS only ports for C2S and S2S xmpp
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22:04:32 Ge0rG the bike shedding debate about whether real tls is more securer than start tls?
22:04:51 Ge0rG we all know that startssl is insecure since it was bought by China
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22:38:30 moparisthebest Tobias: yea I don't think default ports are useful there either
22:41:08 Ge0rG just default to 443!
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23:12:26 moparisthebest There you go Ge0rG ! :-) you are getting it now
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