XSF Discussion - 2017-02-21

  1. Guus

    intosi: we are in need of your magic powers once more!

  2. Guus

    The website is missing two resources, but it is in /extensions/ which is outside of my range of influence

  3. Guus

    https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep.ent should serve the file in https://github.com/xsf/xeps/blob/master/xep.ent https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep.xsl should serve the file in https://github.com/xsf/xeps/blob/master/xep.xsl

  4. Guus

    (I will "pretty please" if it helps)

  5. intosi

    Consider it done if you put sugar on top.

  6. Guus

    pretty please with sugar on top

  7. Guus brings out the whipped cream and starts shaking.

  8. intosi

    I'll undo the fix if you dare ;)

  9. Guus


  10. Guus

    Does anyone know what this issue is about? https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/43 ralphm?

  11. Guus

    intosi: now it complains about a missing xep.dtd, which can be found in the same place. Could you do that one too, please?

  12. Guus

    (relates to https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/196)

  13. intosi


  14. Guus

    right, now it shows somethign

  15. Guus

    intosi: two new 404's: pretty.css and pretty.js - these shouldgo in xmpp,org/ (root) though, not in xmpp.org/extensions/

  16. Tobias

    Guus, or we change the XEP html to have them in extensions? instead of requiring tons of URL rewrites in the server

  17. intosi

    Or that.

  18. Guus

    Tobias: I am fine with any improvement, but currently, I'm pushing for the easy fix, which is something that we can do *now*.

  19. intosi

    pretty.js? Don't you mean prettify.js?

  20. Guus

    prettify, indeed

  21. Guus

    both css as well as js

  22. intosi

    And where are these referenced from?

  23. Guus

    You'll notice the 404's whenever you open a url like this one: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0300.xml

  24. Guus

    the xml is loading the xsl, which in turn references the dtd, css and js, I suppose.

  25. intosi

    Guus: I don't, in fact. I see 200 responses there.

  26. ralphm

    Guus: even though we do have a page at that URL now, the original tech pages were more detailed: http://web.archive.org/web/20150313010246/http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/technology-overview

  27. intosi

    Because they load /extensions/prettify.js

  28. intosi


  29. Guus

    wuh? it works for me now

  30. jonasw

    Guus: I get "undefined entity" &LEGALNOTICE;

  31. Guus

    weird caching issue, I think

  32. intosi

    Yeah, after I added redirects.

  33. Guus

    ah, ok

  34. intosi

    But I'd rather fix the stylesheets in the longer run.

  35. Guus

    jonasw: feel free to suggest improvements :)

  36. Guus

    intosi: agreed: but at least now, we have a non-empty page

  37. intosi

    Right. Back to $DAYJOB

  38. Guus


  39. Guus

    thanks for the help

  40. intosi


  41. intosi


  42. jonasw

    Guus: I’m not sure what the cause is. According to debugging tools, all resources are fetched freshly, but then again, it doesn’t even try to load xep.{dtd,ent}. I blame Firefox’ XML/XSL support.

  43. jonasw

    force-clearing the cache doesn’t help either

  44. Guus

    jonasw: tried another browser?

  45. jonasw

    on my way

  46. jonasw

    works with chromium

  47. Guus

    If you ever figure out what makes it work on firefox, please open an issue on github

  48. jonasw

    I’ve never used the XML versions, so I’m not sure if that’s a new issue

  49. Guus

    it likely is not new. Does not mean we shouldn't improve if we can :)

  50. intosi

    It never worked in Firefox for me.

  51. intosi


  52. jonasw

    is it sensible to have a version of the XEPs around which don’t work in a major browser?

  53. intosi

    Does in Safari and Chrome now.

  54. Guus

    Prettify.js throws an exception on line 31: Uncaught DOMException: Failed to set the 'innerHTML' property on 'Element': The provided markup is invalid XML, and therefore cannot be inserted into an XML document.

  55. jonasw

    (although I’m not sure if firefox is still a major browser…)

  56. Guus

    not sure if that's related

  57. jonasw

    Guus: firefox doesn’t even get to the point where JS or anything is loaded

  58. jonasw

    it fails XML parsing

  59. Guus

    jonasw: that might be presentation only. Did you try to look at the source of that page?

  60. intosi

    Due to missing entity references. Doesn't try to load the ent file.

  61. jonasw

    intosi: or the DTD for that matter

  62. intosi

    Or that.

  63. Guus

    Chromium warns about wrong mime-types too. the xsl is transferred as application/octet-stream

  64. Guus

    anyways: day job.

  65. SamWhited

    There's a feature request open for Firefox but right now it doesn't support loading external resources in an XML file.

  66. Ge0rG

    XML resource redirection is an old vulnerability vector

  67. Guus

    We are down to a one-page issue list for the website :)

  68. Guus

    (no, this is not intended as a challenge to get it longer again)

  69. Guus

    Feel free to resolve another few though

  70. Zash

    Guus: You don't want any further issues reported eh?

  71. Guus

    No. The website is perfect and flawless as is.

  72. Guus

    People that report issues are spreading fake news

  73. Guus


  74. Guus

    Oh wow. Our lower house has just voted to legalize growing of cannabis.

  75. Guus

    Contrary to popular believe, that was illegal here. You could legally sell it, but not grow or buy it in bulk (nice, no?)

  76. Guus


  77. Zash

    As in, the non-industrial kind?

  78. Guus

    the industrial kind.

  79. Guus

    (coffee shops in Amsterdam got to get their produce from somewhere, right?)

  80. Guus

    There has been a weird non-enforcement policy. The violent crime related to cannabis cultivation is pretty high here.

  81. Zash

    (and by industrial I mean the kind with less psychoactive stuff, grown in some places at an industrial scale for the fibers)

  82. Guus

    ah, no, I was referring to commercially growns stuff (vs home-grown) for recreational purposes.

  83. Lance

    Given all of the discussion about bind2 and preserving client info for debugging, should we revisit and advance https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0232.html ?

  84. Zash

    > <identity category='client' name='Exodus' type='pc'/>

  85. Zash

    Lance: What they want is a persistent identifier for the device itself, not more verbose client description (As I understand it)

  86. Zash

    client or device

  87. Zash

    I'm wondering about adding an attribute on the opening stream header for easier tracing

  88. Zash

    Then it can be visible even before you auth/bind

  89. Ge0rG

    Zash: what kind of attribute?

  90. Zash

    Ge0rG: <stream:stream [...] xmlns:trace="urn:example:xmpp:trace" trace:id="yaxim-xxxxxx">

  91. daniel

    Zash: +1

  92. daniel

    And get rid of client assigned resources (even in parts) once and for all

  93. MattJ


  94. MattJ

    If we get rid of client-assigned resources, I'll do my best to prevent Ge0rG from ever seeing another UUID

  95. Zash

    I see no need in changing the current spec however

  96. daniel

    Zash: current as in regular bind?

  97. MattJ

    daniel, btw, just to confirm I saw your post about 313 and MUC <x> elements - going to have a look at that tomorrow. I remember we chatted about it a while back

  98. daniel

    Yes regular bind can stay

  99. Ge0rG

    daniel: aren't you the one with the broken client-generated resource implementation? :D

  100. Zash

    Ge0rG: I believe you can do the above Right Now if you wanted, pretty sure it shows up in debug logs. No idea about servers other than Prosody however.

  101. Zash

    Ge0rG: And it would work earlier.

  102. Zash

    As in, before bind/auth

  103. Ge0rG

    Zash: I want that trace:id to be in all log lines affecting that client please. even MUC debug messages on the MUC service.

  104. Zash

    daniel: I mean the rules (client can suggest something, server picks something). I'm sure bind2 can improve the protocol and make things better.

  105. daniel

    Ge0rG: i belive Conversations is one of the few clients that show the disco name when it comes to resource selection (for jingle or otr)

  106. daniel

    Zash: I don't see the benefit in a client suggesting something

  107. Zash

    daniel: Don't suggest something then.

  108. Ge0rG

    daniel: how is that an answer to my question? And how does it work with multiple instances of the same client?

  109. Ge0rG

    daniel: you can just admit it and pretend to be ashamed, and I'll leave for the night ☺️

  110. Zash

    Outside of client developers, how many have multiple instances of the same client?

  111. Zash

    Suppose you can show timestamp of last stanza received from each resource.

  112. Zash

    And other presence details

  113. daniel

    Well I guess the ultimate goal is to never show that resource selection at all

  114. daniel

    And instead use message initiation for jingle