-
daniel
I wonder if it's too much to ask from gsoc students to join the muc
-
MattJ
I don't think it's too much to ask
-
Zash
Newspeak?
-
jonasw
or Zeitungsenten ("newspaper ducks") in german
-
Ge0rG
which is probably translated as "hoax"
-
Tobias
nah... 📰🦆 sounds way better
-
jonasw
that’s even outside unicode 8.x. you’re unfair. ;P
-
Tobias
jonasw, it just shows the effort :)
-
Zash
Over U+9000?
-
dwd
daniel, There's a gsoc@ MUC specifically for them to join, and we ask them to.
-
Tobias
so we don't interrupt the ongoing board meeting here
-
Ge0rG
This board meeting is the best one. The longest board meeting. It's awesome.
-
dwd
Tobias, Alright for you. I've been taking minuites for the past six months.
-
Ge0rG
My Android won't show that secod glyph either, what is it?
-
Tobias
those minutes will probably blow up mailman when the meeing concludes
-
Guus
to be fair, I think that the subject has only been set like two weeks ago...
-
daniel
Ge0rG: time to get a new phone
-
Ge0rG
daniel: time to get a new OS update.
-
Tobias
Ge0rG, it's one of the ducks, obviously
-
Ge0rG
but maybe I'll get me a Nokia.
-
dwd
The subject was indeed set only in response to my assertion that nobody uses the subject.
-
dwd
And then left as-is, because nobody uses the subject...
-
Tobias
which kind of shows this UX inconsistency definilty needs to be fixed with MIX :)
-
dwd
Tobias, I'd honestly prefer we built a feature people actually wanted to use. But not a hill to die on, etc.
- dwd is just a grumpy old man on this - haha - subject.
-
Guus
ghee, who knew that there was content under that 'recent events' list on the wiki? :)
-
Zash
what the
-
Guus
?
-
Zash
Looking at https://xmpp.org/software/libraries.html and noticed that the link for Verse points to the older unsupported version I never used, instead of the new one that's basically a subset of Prosody libraries.
-
Guus
I am looking forward to your PR :)
-
Zash
MattJ: Do you have a web page for the new verse, other than the source repo?
-
Guus
http://code.matthewwild.co.uk/verse ?
-
Guus
ah, that's the repo
-
Guus
http://www.matthewwild.co.uk/projects/verse/home
-
Zash
Guus: PR'd
-
Guus
merged
-
uc
Zash: hi, looking at babbler, it too points to old version.
-
Zash
uc: Your turn to write a PR :)
-
MattJ
Thanks Zash
-
uc
Ok sorry, I think I forgot I clicked on something, it looks ok.
-
Zash
MattJ: You can thank me by writing docs for Verse :)
-
Zash
Guus: The in-Github editors syntax highlighting seemed upset about the unescaped * in "IP*Works Internet Toolkit". Is whatever does the rendering fine with \* ?
-
Ge0rG
Can we please-pretty-please announce a sunset period for old clients, servers and libraries to jdev@ and kick out everything that didn't react within a month?
-
Guus
Zash - i don't know. Try and find out? I've added Vagrant-based instructions that should make it pretty easy to run a virtual machine with the website
-
Guus
Ge0rG: sure.
-
Tobias
Ge0rG, blablabla
-
Ge0rG
unfortunately, the according discussion in [board|council] dissipated into bikeshedding.
-
Tobias
Ge0rG, we need have an implementation ready first for our website publishing
-
jonasw
Tobias: have you worked on the jinja thing?
-
Tobias
jonasw, haven't gotten around doing that yet
-
jonasw
Tobias: need help? :)
-
Zash
Guus: Vawhatnow?
-
jonasw
I can into pelican and jinja2
-
Tobias
jonasw, if you have the time, feel free to do a PR on the xmpp.org repo that does this kind of thing. I'll be happy to review it
-
Guus
ash: https://www.vagrantup.com/
-
Guus
Zash: https://www.vagrantup.com/
-
jonasw
Tobias: okay :)
-
Zash
Website too flashy, I'm skeptical.
-
Tobias
if we have this ready in PR form and tested that it works, we can announce the new process on jdev, and merge the PR a week later and done
-
Guus
Zash: it predates stuff like docker, I think
-
Ge0rG
Tobias: how is website publishing happening now? I read Guus' #246 PR merge mail and wondered why I can't find the "getting started" page
-
Bunneh
Ge0rG: Mix #246 https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/246
-
Ge0rG
Bunneh: no. wrong repository!
-
Zash
Ge0rG: How is Bunneh supposed to know?
-
Guus
Ge0rG: Yeah, I've been wondering about that too
-
Ge0rG
Zash: dunno. How am I supposed to tell it?
-
Guus
not sure what happened there - Locally, it worked fine.
-
Guus
I am *assuming* that the website gets periodically updated from github, automatically. If there's an actual person involved, then someone is now blocking that change and I'm not aware :)
-
Tobias
Ge0rG, it's three parts, pelican building HTML files, and sed replacing a longish string in one HTML file with the list of XEPs
-
Ge0rG
Tobias: that was only two parts.
-
Tobias
the list of XEPs is generated on demand by the XEP editor, while the website is automatically rebuilt from master 3-4 times a day i think
-
Tobias
Ge0rG, don't tell me how to count my thoughts :P
-
Guus
Tobias: Ge0rG is referring to a page that I added in https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/246 - which was merged two days ago, but is not available on the website.
-
Ge0rG
Tobias: the two biggest problems in Computer Science: 2. Event Ordering; 1. Naming Things; and 3. Off-by-one errors
-
Guus
I assume I messed up somewhere, but I haven't spent the time to figure out what went wrong.
-
jonasw
FYI, starting to work on the overhaul of library pages with magic expiry
-
Guus
\o/
-
Tobias
jonasw, thx...if that works nicely, we can extend that to client and server pages too
-
jonasw
well, yes, I’m doing that all in one rush.
-
jonasw
or at least in a way which is easily extensible
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: sounds interesting
-
Guus
Ge0rG: I'd be grateful if you can figure out what went wrong with my merge though.
-
Zash
Is there like a manifest of pages cached somewhere?
-
Ge0rG
Guus: I'm sorry, I have no idea about how the website works internally
-
Guus
Ge0rG: neither do I, but that's not stopping me :)
-
jonasw
I’m going to spread the word on the XSF-GSOC, do any other projects have a nice overview page like this? https://conversations.im/gsoc.html
-
Tobias
jonasw, there is https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summer_of_Code_2017 but with less nice CSS on top of it
-
jonasw
thanks!
-
jonasw
Tobias: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/269
-
jonasw
worksforme locally, let’s see what travis thinks of it :)
-
Tobias
jonasw, thx...will five that a review soon✎ -
Kev
That looks interesting, thanks.
-
Tobias
jonasw, thx...will give that a review soon ✏
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: you could replace `last_renewed` with a bit of git-blame magic :P
-
jonasw
Ge0rG: what if someone fixes a typo or converts URLs to https without interacting with the project?
-
Tobias
right
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: and there is the opposite problem of a project that is maintained but where the record doesn't change ;)
-
Tobias
the idea is that the authors can issue PRs, that update the last_renew timestamp to a time in the past.
-
Kev
It's not much fun to issue PRs just for updating a timestamp, but it's also low-maintenance for the XSF and that seems like a good thing. And it's not too onerous.
-
Kev
It's certainly a not-very-contentious thing to get done Right Now.
-
jonasw
as mentioned in the PR, updating a timestamp is done by .
-
Ge0rG
Kev: +1
-
jonasw
as mentioned in the PR, updating a timestamp is done by ./data/update-entry.py data/libraries.json $libraryname && git commit -avm "Update timestamp of $library" && git push
-
jonasw
that’s low maintenance even without PRs.
-
jonasw
gah, there are obvious bugs in that line, but you get the idea
-
Link Mauve
I haven’t yet sent a formal proposal about a format for developers to describe their software, but I have worked on it and am planning on sending that soon-ish.
-
Link Mauve
It would remove the need to do a PR against every website listing their software.
-
Link Mauve
https://linkmauve.fr/files/client-sample.xml for a WIP of which I’m very not satisfied yet, but trying to include the information I want to have available.
-
jonasw
Link Mauve: please make your server send a content-type for xml. firefox probably tries to render this as html because there’s no Content-Type header.
-
Zash
y u no disco#info
-
Link Mauve
As discussed at the summit, I also want it to be usable like on the w3c specification pages, where they list implementations directly on the page.
-
Link Mauve
Zash, because it’s highly incomplete, requires an instance of it to be online and reachable through s2s, requires this software to be a client or a server, etc.
-
jonasw
Link Mauve: looking at the XML: logo maybe as favicon?
-
Link Mauve
jonasw, “Content-Type: text/xml; charset=utf-8”
-
Zash
Link Mauve: I mean the format, not the method
-
Link Mauve
Firefox is probably trying to be smart with the xmlns:xhtml.
-
jonasw
Link Mauve: why did firebug lie to me.
-
Link Mauve
Zash, and extend it with all of the informations we need?✎ -
jonasw
agh, looked at the wrong header because it came out of the cache :(
-
Link Mauve
Zash, and extend it with all of the information we need? ✏
-
jonasw
firefox bug then, I have never said a thing, Link Mauve
-
jonasw
Zash: Link Mauves XML even contains disco:identity
-
Zash
Link Mauve: Maybe, what info is required?
-
Link Mauve
jonasw, the final thing would probably be a RDF-like format, but I don’t know enough about RDF or the semantic web yet to design it like that immediately.
-
Zash
Link Mauve: Sounds overkill
-
Link Mauve
Zash, have a look at the sample I posted.
-
Link Mauve
Zash, maybe, as I said I don’t know enough about it to make an informed decision.
-
jonasw
Zash: not neccessarily: using established formats makes it easy to parse with existing tooling
-
jonasw
og:image etc. are well-established tags, I’d be interested how tools like facebook react if you simply link that thing (and make the webserver pretend it’s XHTML… just to fool them)
-
jonasw
although, facebook etc. are notoriously bad with XHTML, especially when namespace prefixes are used :(
-
Link Mauve
jonasw, I would guess you don’t even need to pretend it’s XHTML, text/xml is already a valid XHTML content-type.
-
jonasw
it’ll probably still break on namespace prefixes :/
-
SamWhited
Everything is bad when namespace prefixes are used :) I'm always half tempted to suggest we write XMPP 2.0 with the only change being that namespace prefixes aren't allowed.
-
Link Mauve
I originally wanted to use these og: properties, but there was e.g. no way to specify the licence, or to specify what is a logo and what is a screenshot, so I gave up on that idea.
-
jonasw
SamWhited: with a proper XML parser, namespace prefixes are irrelevant to the application.
-
Zash
SamWhited: <stream xmlns="urn:xmpp:stanzas"> yeeeeaaaah
-
SamWhited
Zash: yes please!
-
Zash
or just urn:xmpp?
-
jonasw
SamWhited: <iq xmlns="jabber:client"> for each stanza? :)
-
SamWhited
jonasw: No, default namespaces are still a thing, just not prefixes.
-
Zash
jonasw: jabber:client and jabber:server ought to go away completely
-
jonasw
right
-
SamWhited
Half the XML parsers out there aren't proper, or are buggy… it's just needless complexity that makes implementing XML difficult (which in theory I don't have to care about, but if <language-of-choice>'s built in XML parser is broken, I do)
-
Zash
SamWhited: This means no namespaced attributes.
-
SamWhited
Zash: Sounds good to me
-
Zash
SamWhited: You can start by getting Pidgin to get rid of {http://www.google.com/talk/protocol/auth}client-uses-full-bind-result='true' :)
-
jonasw
SamWhited: the instant stream resumption xep would break then :)
-
Zash
Redesign it
-
SamWhited
jonasw: Yah, it would be a backwards incompatible change; I'm pretty okay with that for a 2.0 version (not that I actually expect this to happen, it's just fun to think about; I have RFC modifications floating about for this somewhere :) )
-
SamWhited
Also, RE Pidgin: … wat?
-
jonasw
SamWhited: if you get rid of namespace prefixes altogether, why not go with JSON right away :)
-
SamWhited
jonasw: Because JSON doesn't have namespaces, and isn't really streamable.
-
jonasw
Link Mauve: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4287 might be interesting for your usecase
-
Zash
SamWhited: GTalk compat stuff that annoys me because to no end as it shows up in logs all the time.
-
SamWhited
Zash: That hurts me :)
-
Link Mauve
jonasw, Atom would be fine as a container format, to notify subscribers of new releases, but it doesn’t define any of the elements we will need in there.
-
jonasw
Link Mauve: atom:rights, atom:logo, atom:published, atom:updated, atom:title seem all like very relevant things; and it explicitly allows extensions in foreign namespaces
-
Link Mauve
jonasw, indeed, maybe I’ll use that as a container format, especially since I plan on requiring it to be hosted as a PubSub feed, so multiple websites can get notified of new versions.
-
jonasw
Link Mauve: https://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml#link-relations-1 those may also be interesting (cf. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988 )
-
Link Mauve
jonasw, thanks.
-
jonasw
(I once wrote a blog/static webpage framework before I came across pelican, I spent quite some time figuring out how to put metadata correctly into websites so that they produce nice snippets in social media)
-
Kev
ralphm: Could you please add me to and make me an admin of https://trello.com/xmppstandardsfoundation/members ?
-
Kev
'kevinsmith', I believe. The avatar is pretty obviously me.
-
SamWhited
Do we already have a gsoc MUC somewhere? (eg. where should we point people who ask about XSF gsoc?)
-
Zash
gsoc@muc.xmpp.org ?
-
SamWhited
oh hey, yup, that worked. Thanks.
-
SamWhited
I should get a client that allows me to actually list rooms one day.
-
SamWhited
(although I suppose I should have just guessed that one)
-
dwd
SamWhited, Instead you have a conversational UI to search rooms with full natural language support, called "asking Zash".
-
SamWhited
dwd: It works pretty well in Conversations and Mcabber!
-
dwd
SamWhited, Cross-platform server-side, FTW.
-
jonasw
@council: could you put https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2017-February/032328.html on your agenda for the next meeting?
-
SamWhited
jonasw: What would the actual discussion be about?
-
jonasw
whether a modification of XEP-115 is worth the trouble
-
Zash
Clarifying is always good
- SamWhited nods
-
jonasw
it’s more than clarifying
-
SamWhited
I'll add it as soon as us-east-1 comes back and the entire internet stops being broken.
-
jonasw
I can write up what I’m thinking about; it would re-do the concatenation of the disco information because as it currently stands it’s weird and it’s been discussed a few years back.
-
SamWhited
(or maybe Trello having trouble is unrelated, but I just got an alarm from Amazon and now nothing works, so I'm making the assumption that they're related…)
-
jonasw
SamWhited: to be clear, I specifically include the suggestion by Florian: > And after we decided a successor of SHA-1 for XEP-0115 we could also fix the existing flaws of XEP-0115 like [1], because this would require a namespace bump anyway.
-
Zash
What requires a namespace bump?
-
jonasw
Zash: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2017-February/032324.html > But it may be sensible to change the mandatory hash algorithm of XEP-0155. And after we decided a successor of SHA-1 for XEP-0115 we could also fix the existing flaws of XEP-0115 like [1], because this would require a namespace bump anyway.
-
Zash
Are there any clients using features such that their caps hash would change if the special characters were escaped?
-
SamWhited
Changing a new thing to be mandatory would require a bump, I think
-
Zash
What if we pretend that the algorithm was always like that?
-
Zash
Just, poorly documented
-
Zash
And put some text into an implementation note
-
jonasw
what escaping are you talking about?
-
Zash
Hrm, I lost my caps compression experiment :(
-
Zash
> Joe Hildebrand (one of the authors of the XEP) mentioned that his intention was that you would escape any "<" to "<" in feature names. But this isn't specified in the XEP and isn't obvious.
-
Zash
jonasw: The [1]
-
jonasw
right, that wouldn’t help with Attack 3 and 4 outlined in [1]
-
Zash
poke waqas
-
Ge0rG
Let's bump all the namespaces at once. It even better. Let's bump the namespace of XMPP to XMPP2!
-
jonasw
Ge0rG: you’re late to the party, SamWhited outlined XMPP 2.0 above
-
SamWhited
Ge0rG: That's part of my evil plan, *shhh*
-
moparisthebest
is it going to be json over http?
-
moparisthebest
cause then I'm out >:)
-
Ge0rG
With a DAG based storage backend?
-
jonasw
moparisthebest: https://i.imgur.com/cT3NEdI.gif ;-)
-
moparisthebest
I mean we might as well re-invent it right, why not, NIH syndrome is cool
-
Zash
Globally distributed DAG in MongoDB with extra blockchain on top?
-
jonasw
I am torn between existential despair and laughter.
-
SamWhited
Zash: You forgot the Docker; gotta use some Docker.
-
SamWhited
Otherwise it's not webscale.
-
jonasw
oh and Cloud
-
moparisthebest
right, and obviously the only choice for language is javascript running in node.js
-
Zash
http://howfuckedismydatabase.com/nosql/fault-tolerance.png
-
moparisthebest
yea that is my favorite one from that site
-
moparisthebest
maybe my favorite cartoon of all time
-
jonasw
now I need to watch Erlang The Movie again.
-
moparisthebest
especially the sick erlang burn (sorry ejabberd guys)
-
SamWhited
Erlang is one of the coolest languages ever made, and concepts from it (and other similar CSP style languages) should have become part of mainstream programming 20 years ago… and I still can't stand to write anything in it just because I hate reading it.
-
jonasw
disclaimer: I never knowingly saw a bit of erlang code.
-
moparisthebest
same jonasw I'm kind of ashamed to admit I've never looked at it at all :)
-
SamWhited
Just for fun, if you're interested, watch this and spot the Erlang reference :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pTEmbeENF4
-
SamWhited
(and then still don't go write Erlang, because it will make your eyes bleed)
-
jonasw
I wonder whether it’s worse than Cortex-M0 ASM
-
moparisthebest
I guess arc would be the only one that would know :)
-
Ge0rG
Some years ago, when I still was running ejabberd, a student approached me for inspiration. I told him that erlang is awesome and totally different, and now he's working at a telco development company.
-
moparisthebest
using erlang?
-
jonasw
:D
-
Ge0rG
Yes
-
moparisthebest
my favorite dig at erlang is this: https://www.erlang-solutions.com/blog/mongooseim-2-0-0beta2-the-power-of-an-xmpp-platform-with-the-simplicity-of-a-rest-api.html
-
Ge0rG
Developing tr069 equipment and Hotspot login things
-
moparisthebest
knocks XML for being 'not trendy', uses erlang...
-
waqas
Zash?
-
Zash
waqas: there was mention of the caps issue earlier
-
waqas
I haven't read the backlog, but did it start with sha1?
-
Zash
I guess
-
jonasw
waqas: context is this: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2017-February/032324.html it appears that now is a good chance to fix xep 115
-
waqas
Caps is completely broken. Updating the XEP to suggest XML escaping isn't going to fix it. Please read old threads for why. The caps algorithm is bad. sha-1 to sha-2/3 is meaningless given how broken the algorithm is.
-
jonasw
waqas: yes, i mean actually fixing
-
Ge0rG
Wasn't there a workaround for clients to recalculate the checksum?
-
waqas
Not a working one Ge0rG. The simple workaround is to not share caps cache across JIDs.
-
waqas
And no server side implementation does that for PEP
-
MattJ
The "old thread" is https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2011-August/025011.html
-
waqas
Which links to my older thread: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/security/2009-July/000812.html
-
waqas
Wow, it was 8 years ago
-
MattJ
Feel old? :)
-
Ge0rG
That ejabberd story made me feel old as well. Sigh.
-
Ge0rG
Also that I'm using this nickname for over 20 years already.
-
daniel
Security awareness doesn't seem to run very strong among in the xsf
-
Zash
That's what the IETF is for
-
daniel
That xep should be retracted
-
SamWhited
It could use some pretty serious work…
-
Zash
It could use xep-300
-
daniel
SamWhited: just retract it. Copy past the xml over in a new xep with a new namespace and do the nul thing with sha2 Dave suggested 8 years ago
-
daniel
If you don't retract it it get forgotten for another 8 years
-
SamWhited
oh, yah, it's draft, so maybe that would be the more practical course of action
-
jonasw
daniel: +1
-
jonasw
although it might be wise to not use NUL but the field separators in the last control characters up to U+0020
-
jonasw
that allows to convey the structure
-
jonasw
and they’re still disallowed in XML
-
jonasw
I’d be happy to write that up.
-
Zash
Are you sure that they are disallowed?
-
waqas
Note that the null thing isn't sufficient. The data model is nested, and you need at least two delimiters, if not more.
-
waqas
\0 and \1 would work. Both are disallowed in XML.
-
jonasw
waqas: that’s why I suggest to use FS DS etc. from ASCII
-
jonasw
Zash: https://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-xml-20081126/#charsets characters does not cover 0x00 through 0x1f, except for 0x09 (tab), 0x0a (newline), 0x0d (carriage return)
-
Ge0rG
There are field and record separator characters in ASCII. I'm even using those in my xmpp client
-
jonasw
this includes CDATA sections as well as normal text and attribute data
-
jonasw
Ge0rG: +1
-
Ge0rG
But I felt dirty for implementing them.
-
jonasw
why? :)
-
Ge0rG
Because I was abusing Android's key value XML storage to contain a table of ASCII separated key value pairs
-
jonasw
:D
-
waqas
Ge0rG: Was the hack really that dirty? I don't know what you did, but I'm reminded of the story of Mel. Read that one? :)
-
Ge0rG
waqas: nope
-
waqas
Ge0rG: http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/mel.html
-
Ge0rG
https://github.com/pfleidi/yaxim/blob/master/src/org/yaxim/androidclient/data/YaximConfiguration.java#L195-L202
-
Ge0rG
waqas: ah, that story!
-
waqas
Zash, jonasw, Ge0rG: This is the important email in the thread, explaining the problem: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2011-August/025035.html
-
waqas
daniel: ^
-
jonasw
waqas: thanks
-
jonasw
that’s why I’m in favour of using the ASCII control codes for structural information. there are four control codepoints for that.
-
waqas
Sigh, that thread is painful to read. I was being such a pain :P
-
jonasw
you are right though :)
-
waqas
Always
-
SamWhited
Being a pain about security issues is a good thing.
-
SamWhited
Please keep doing it :)
-
waqas
Unfortunately it wasn't effective. Things went nowhere :)
-
Zash
Talking didn't help? How unusual :)
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jonasw
SamWhited: being in council (other council members may of course chime in) what do you think is more sensible? (a) write up a fresh XEP based on the idea of XEP-115 with new hash function and new algorithm to generate the input for the hash function, based on waqas thoughts (b) write up a patch for XEP-115 with new mandatory hash function and new algorithm to generate the input for the hash function, based on waqas thoughts (c) wait for the next council meeting before doing anything. (d) none of the above, please fill in here: _____________
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jonasw
XEP-115 was hurting my eyes ever since I started implementing it, and I want to see it fixed.
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SamWhited
jonasw: I'm with daniel; (a) makes the most sense to me. Actually doing it is a whole different matter though :)
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jonasw
then I’m starting to do it right now.
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Zash
<{newcaps}c node=''><{hashes}hash algo='sha-wesome'>ASDF</hash>{<hash/>...}</c>
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SamWhited
♡
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Zash
jonasw: do it
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Zash
Do things and talk about them.
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waqas
I think we should just have a new XEP with a new namespace and a super simple algorithm.
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waqas
Trying to patch XEP-115… I'm sure many would like to do that, but I've said my piece on my that's a bad idea.
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SamWhited
Does anyone happen to know where the canonical version of rfc2629.dtd lives (as an actual file so that I don't have to go through and remove all the page breaks and headers that get injected if I try to copy / paste from the RFC)?
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SamWhited
Or does it live anywhere? All I can find are old draft copies on random non-IETF websites
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SamWhited
or 7991 or whatever we're on now
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jonasw
good night everyone
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SamWhited
aha! Found a tiny ihdden link on the xml2rfc page
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SamWhited
Trello just deployed some stuff to not-aws so it's back now; pretty sure someone wanted something on the agenda, but I don't remember what now… something about SHA-1.
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Zash
jonasw 18:51 @council: could you put https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2017-February/032328.html on your agenda for the next meeting?
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SamWhited
Another thing I wish either of my clients had so that Zash wouldn't have to take the features place: Search.
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SamWhited
(thanks)
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moparisthebest
I'd be more concerned as to how Zash got access to your MAM archive SamWhited
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moparisthebest
prosody backdoor? someone call the guardian!!!!!
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Zash
By the use of a magical device called a scroll wheel.
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Zash
It can see into the past
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SamWhited
I'm not actually sure there is a way to scroll in mcabber; I assume there is. I should probably figure out the shortcut for that.
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Zash
Wild guess: Pg Up
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moparisthebest
I can see the headline now "Popular chat server has backdoor, developer codname "ScrollWheel""✎ -
moparisthebest
I can see the headline now "Popular chat server has backdoor, developer codename "ScrollWheel"" ✏
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SamWhited
nah, that changes to the previous/next chat.
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Zash
ScrollWheel. SamWhited. Coincidence? I think not.
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SamWhited
looks like Ctrl+P
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SamWhited
TIL
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SamWhited
I feel like I knew that at one point
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waqas
That's for printing...
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Zash
SamWhited: Hah. So, exact opposite to irssi.
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SamWhited
yah, the keyboard shortcuts aren't the most consistent thing; some of them are random, some are irssi style, some are vim style
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SamWhited
mostly I just use the vim style ones and don't know any of the others
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arc
what the bloody hell
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arc
refering to the email that was just sent
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SamWhited
heh, yah, I wonder where he got that random list of people to send it too
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arc
is he refering to the old defunct and should be removed XEPs or something new?
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SamWhited
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ one possible outcome of the IoT SIG's work would be to replace the existing stuff (or improve it before we consider advancing them) like we discussed at summit, so I guess he meant the old ones?
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daniel
The idea to throw 115 away came primarily from the desire to act now and deal with a replacement later
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Ge0rG
"The "S" in IoT stands for Security." just has become my quote of the year.
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daniel
SamWhited: /buffer up.
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SamWhited
oh hey, that too; thanks
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moparisthebest
another question because I'm curious, some members of council and board are up for membership renewal this time
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moparisthebest
what happens if they don't get renewed?
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SamWhited
There's only one way to find out! :)
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moparisthebest
:)
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moparisthebest
ok everyone vote no for Link Mauve so we can find out!
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Ge0rG
moparisthebest: what incentives are you going to offer? Should I PM you my Bitcoin address?
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moparisthebest
I'm curious, I'm not paying money curious :)
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Guus
I for one shall follow Link Mauve in the to be created real XSF. The other XSFses are fake. #sad
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Ge0rG
Guus: you will create the best xsf. An awesome xsf. There is no other xsf than yours?
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Guus
Believe me. I create the GREATEST XSF. Be careful of the other ones. Full with bad hombres.
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Guus
But I am sleepy. Anarchy is postponed until tomorrow. Goodnight.
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moparisthebest
still waiting on a joke about a wall
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SamWhited
moparisthebest: Guus' probably going to turn off federation with the other XSFs (and make them pay for it)
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moparisthebest
thanks
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Guus
I see that my work here is done.
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Zash
Something something we're going to build a mod_firewall ... oh wait
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Ge0rG
Zash: and forbid the Russians to send us messages?
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SamWhited
ooh yah, that one's better
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Ge0rG
You meant "bitter"?
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SamWhited
Too true
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Zash
We need a joke about proof of work things too
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waqas
Pow!
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Ge0rG
Zash: the xsf has proven to work by holding its longest board meeting yet. We don't know how long it is, but it's going on for two weeks already, and it's the best board meeting. It's an awesome board meeting
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Ge0rG
How much Bitcoin can you make with cheap jokes?
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Ge0rG
How many xsf members does it take to replace a lightb^W cryptographic hash function?
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Tobias
waqas, you mean kung pow?
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Ge0rG
Tobias: really awesome movie!
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Tobias
indeed