XSF Discussion - 2017-03-08

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  294. fippo https://bloggeek.me/webrtc-cpaas-report-update/ -- "Vidyo.io makes use of XMPP for its signaling". I knew jonathan lennox is smart (-:
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  311. Flow fippo: I can't find the quote in that site
  312. Tobias it's all fake news
  313. Flow ahh, it's in https://bloggeek.me/download/11252/
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  335. Flow any urn:http:upload:0 implementations out there? The prosody module seems to be stuck at the non :0 version
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  338. daniel Flow: unfortunately no
  339. Flow hmm, guess i've to introduce a compat layer in smack then
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  341. daniel Or patch a several
  342. daniel *server
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  380. nyco hey, look! https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meetups ;-)
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  392. Zash There's an upload:0 now?
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  394. Ge0rG nyco: the SCAM has started?
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  405. SamWhited ralphm: Ping; can you make an editors board in the XSF team trello and possibly add me to the XSF team so the boards stop showing up in my personal boards?
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  418. Ge0rG is it board meeting time once again? :D
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  456. Zash -certinfo conference.prosody.im
  457. Bunneh Zash: conference.prosody.im has a valid certificate with a 4096-bit RSA key and a RSA-SHA256 signature that expired 6 hours and 57 minutes ago issued by Let's Encrypt Authority X3
  458. Ge0rG onoez
  459. jonasw #shitfuck
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  462. Zash Language?
  463. jonasw right
  464. jonasw I should probably explain that’s a quote and deliberately used as exaggeration, because it came from a student who came into a room we were learning in, glanced at us, and basically shouted that and left.
  465. jonasw no idea what was going on there
  466. jonasw (and probably inappropriate in contexts where that story isn’t known)
  467. arc Ge0rG: i think you enjoy the board meetings too much
  468. Ge0rG arc: sorry, I'll try to be more negative next time :D
  469. ralphm I may not make the meeting today.
  470. Ge0rG aww... :((
  471. arc im happy to chair if you need, assuming we can get quorum
  472. ralphm Tx
  473. arc hey Alex
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  479. arc Martin: MattJ: nyco: you here?
  480. MattJ Here
  481. nyco sir, yes sir
  482. nyco gavel?
  483. arc bangs the gavel
  484. Martin Here
  485. arc ralphm: are you here and able to chair?
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  487. arc Ok roll call, we're all here but ralph.
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  489. arc dwd are you able to take notes today?
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  493. arc he's not present. can anyone else take notes today? we'll try to keep this brief in ralph's absence
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  495. arc ok throwing the notepad at random people, jonasw can you take notes today?
  496. jonasw can do
  497. arc thanks
  498. jonasw give me a sec
  499. jonasw anything special I should know?
  500. jonasw otherwise I’m ready
  501. arc nope, just minutes. there's plenty of examples on the mailing list
  502. nyco minutes, or hours, or seconds...
  503. arc Topics for Decisions - is there anything to be done fro Google Summer of Code today?
  504. nyco /ms stops here
  505. jonasw first, please, who’s present?
  506. nyco all except Ralph
  507. jonasw cause I still don’t have a reliable mapping nick -> realname yet
  508. arc jonasw: myself, martin, mattj, nyco
  509. jonasw noted
  510. arc Martin Hewitt, Matthew Wild, Nicolas Verité, Arc Riley
  511. jonasw done, thanks
  512. arc ok, Kev: is there anything of note with GSoC? are the students discussing things with projects? Mentors signing up?
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  515. SamWhited I looked into making editor tasks as Dave or somebody suggested last week
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  517. SamWhited I couldn't come up with any that I actually thought would fit GSoC or keep a student busy for the summer
  518. Kev arc: I've not asked mentors to sign up yet, I need to clarify with the Google folks if that's really necessary. I typically ask them to sign up only once there are suitable project ideas coming in.
  519. Kev (e.g. I wouldn't bother making Swift devs sign up if there are no Swift projects).
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  521. Kev We've had a couple of students start approaching us, yeah. Although if Board can think of ways of widening the net here, that'd be grand.
  522. arc there's no harm tho either. if they volunteer, eg they're talking to students who are interested, they'll still get a tshirt etc
  523. Kev Fair.
  524. SamWhited yah, I got a code-in tshirt from arc for showing up and saying hi in the room a handful of times :)
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  526. arc in the past if I wanted to widen the net I'd toss some cash at google advertising or put up a youtube video
  527. arc but it sounds like the program is on-track for this stage
  528. arc is that all for gsoc this week? no decisions necessary?
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  530. nyco well, make some noise?
  531. Kev As long as Board are still happy to delegate to me, I'm still happy to do stuff.
  532. nyco on our blogs, social network accounts, etc.
  533. nyco I am happy
  534. arc nyco: would you like to take that on?
  535. arc there's certainly some college students out there who'd love the cash to work on xmpp related work.
  536. nyco I am only the master of the places I control, but still I can ask people to do, even provide some content as example/templates
  537. nyco my "audience" is not students though
  538. arc fantastic. remember any non-mentor can participate in GSoC, so long as they're enrolled for at least one college credit for the current or next season, undergrad or grad. we can also reach out to our own community
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  540. arc ok, that seems wrapped. moving on
  541. arc IEEE
  542. arc I met with William for about 5 hours last week. He's an XMPP evangelist who's been working to get XMPP standardized for IoT for awhile now, but only orbiting the XSF
  543. nyco cool
  544. arc Eg he's met PSA, Peter Waher, etc
  545. arc Alex has him setup with a wiki account and he's applying for membership, and said he's going to pull some of the 100+ members of his IEEE IoT WG into the XSF as well, but it raised an issue that we may need a greater presence within the IEEE
  546. arc SamWhited: you commented on the card, share to speak to this as part of the meeting?
  547. SamWhited I don't really have anything other than what's on the card; Dave suggested we appoint a council liaison, but there weren't many people at the council meeting today so I'm going to send out an email to council@ and see if we get any volunteers.
  548. jonasw for context, what card?
  549. arc on Trello, https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
  550. SamWhited Presumably we'd work with the IoT SIG to come up with a strategy for improving the current XEPs, or creating new ones.
  551. SamWhited I will advise the board when/if this happens, but I'm not confident that anyone will volunteer (they didn't last time this was mentioned when the IoT SIG was forming)
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  553. arc its possible that some of the new members we can draw from the IEEE side will volunteer
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  555. arc I deferred a lot of his queries about the XEPs to the IoT WG during our meeting, but one thing he reiterated was there's an existing IEEE IoT XML format, which is why XMPP is getting so much traction.
  556. arc ok it feels that we're dying off, AOB for today?
  557. nyco yes
  558. nyco meetups sync
  559. nyco https://trello.com/c/PyQpztdh/262-meetups-sync
  560. nyco copy-paste:
  561. nyco * Starting point? https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meetups * Collect slides and content * Share and cross-reference
  562. nyco agree? disagree? comments? suggestions?
  563. jonasw what is "AOB" for a control code?
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  565. nyco Any Other Business
  566. jonasw ah!
  567. arc I'm fine with it. I'll note tho that at least one of those listed is a dead meetup
  568. nyco yeah, lots of jargon, sorry
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  570. nyco oh
  571. nyco which one?
  572. arc the SF meetup
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  574. nyco oh
  575. jonasw what is meetup sync about?
  576. arc nothing wrong with listing it.
  577. nyco I talked to Justin, he liked that here
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  579. nyco maybe we can resurrect it?
  580. MattJ Leave it, or leave it with a note on the page
  581. nyco yep, good idea
  582. MattJ Better to have it linked to than not visible
  583. nyco done
  584. arc well there's a bay area realtime meetup that was intended to have some xmpp content
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  587. arc https://www.meetup.com/Silicon-Valley-Realtime/
  588. arc it more or less took the place the xmpp meetup used to have, but with wider scope
  589. nyco so, call to all: the slides or any other content, let's share that! increase our visibility, let people talk about it
  590. MattJ That should include any videos/slides from FOSDEM
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  592. arc i think its a great idea, have a centralized place for people to drop links to their slides and to the ever-shifting local meetings
  593. nyco ah good point... we generalise it to ALL events?
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  595. arc yea why not. does meetup still have their API?
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  597. arc or are you editing by hand
  598. nyco dunno
  599. arc a calendar of XMPP events worldwide could have some limited utility
  600. nyco goooood!
  601. nyco still a reference, a list, generate SEO
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  603. arc or by having a list of slides, it would double as a list of xmpp _speakers_ which could serve conference organizers trying to reach out
  604. nyco yes
  605. arc are you volunteering nyco?
  606. nyco why not?
  607. nyco jonasw, I count on your notes! ;-)
  608. arc alright, AOB?
  609. jonasw nyco: you live dangerous :-)
  610. arc we're at time. +1W?
  611. nyco +1
  612. MattJ +1
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  615. Martin Works for me
  616. arc alright, thanks everyone. Next week, same place, same time.
  617. arc bangs gavel
  618. nyco thx all!
  619. jonasw nyco: quick question: regarding the GSoC-social-media-visibility point, am I correct to say: "Nicolas is happy to make some posts and spread the word, providing examples and templates."
  620. jonasw ?
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  622. nyco oh... huh... yeah... :'(
  623. Martin has left
  624. jonasw just making sure for the minutes
  625. arc i can also help, im just not volunteering for much given that we're in the middle of a 5000km+ move across the US
  626. arc and I'm going to be doing a lot to organize PyCon activities once there
  627. arc ralph and dave suggested we get US-side beanbags/etc for US conferences, and step up our game on this side of the pond
  628. MattJ +1
  629. SamWhited I absolutely volunteer to "store" one of the beanbags and ship them wherever they need to go…
  630. SamWhited I am central, which means that makes sense somehow, I'm sure.
  631. jonasw minutes are sent
  632. arc we'll have to work out those details soonish. I'll be in Portland so i can gather materials before and after PyCon
  633. nyco jonasw, thx !
  634. arc our booth last year was pathetic
  635. nyco need to ru, bye all!
  636. jonasw pycon is on the wrong side of the ocean for me, sorry
  637. arc SamWhited: are you coming to pycon this year?
  638. SamWhited arc: No, probably not
  639. arc good notes jonasw
  640. arc SamWhited: just to note, we have one free pass still available
  641. arc the booth comes with 2, im using one.
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  645. jonasw thanks arc
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  712. arc wow, ok so there's some incompatabilities between exi implementations. which isnt suprising
  713. arc it looks like most of these are simply incomplete
  714. arc which isn't necessarily bad, so long as they're not used for server implementations.
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  747. arc wow, ok.
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  770. Link Mauve “14:54:34 daniel> the reason i'm asking is because ejabberd now supports merging and parting multi sessions nicks. and Conversations behaves pretty badly when you actually try it”, IIRC when I tried with poezio and Gajim with Prosody’s trunk code months ago, these two clients were behaving correctly.
  771. Link Mauve It’s also the way biboumi does IRC-side nick changes.
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  773. Link Mauve I’d guess this is an Ejabberd issue more than a client issue, like it wouldn’t put the correct status code or something.
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  775. arc I was referring to PSA's resignation
  776. daniel Link Mauve: yeah maybe
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  778. daniel I didn't actually boil down the exact problem
  779. Link Mauve Have you tested Prosody trunk yet?
  780. Link Mauve Or biboumi?
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  788. Ge0rG From what I've seen discussed, it looked like an ejabberd issue to me as well. Not creating a join presence for the other client when splitting, or some such
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  854. arc """Otherwise, determine the set of characters for each immediate pattern facet of the target datatype definition according to section E Deriving Set of Characters from XML Schema Regular Expressions. Then, compute the restricted set of characters for the string value as the union of all the sets of characters computed in the previous step. If the resulting set of characters contains less than 256 characters and contains only BMP characters, the string value has a restricted character set and each character is represented using an n-bit Unsigned Integer (see 7.1.9 n-bit Unsigned Integer), where n is ⌈ log2(N + 1) ⌉ and N is the number of characters in the restricted character set."""
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  856. arc """The characters in the restricted character set are sorted by Unicode [UNICODE] code point and represented by integer values in the range (0 ... N−1) according to their ordinal position in the set. Characters that are not in this set are represented by the n-bit Unsigned Integer N followed by the Unicode code point of the character represented as an Unsigned Integer."""
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  859. arc ok so it appears to operate as follows: you can construct an optimized character set of 1-254 characters. no more than 8 bits per character, which simplifies implementation considerably since you need a simple uint[256] for a map.
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  861. arc there is a reserved top value, if that value is passed, then the full unsigned int of the unicode codepoint follows.
  862. arc """as the union of all the sets of characters computed in the previous step"""
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  865. arc so while the XML regex format allows for multi-character sequences, this does not. all the valid characters from the regex are combined into a set, then sorted by unicode codepoint.
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  869. arc if fewer than 8 bits is needed, then that many will be used. but without multi-character sequences theres no "compression" available at this step beyond the obvious one of using a charmap
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  880. arc but it does allow some cool effects; Base64 might be encoded using 63 (not 64) values, accepting that "/" and the terminating "=" will use 5 bytes, so while more complicated than it really should need to be it would only add 6.4% to the size vs 20% as is used with utf-8 representations of Base64..
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  882. arc or if 3.6% difference doesnt matter, 7 bits could be used, still reducing the 20% overhead in half.
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  887. daniel nyco: someone in the gsoc channel is interested in mix for mongoose xmpp:gsoc@muc.xmpp.org?join
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  941. nyco Thx!
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  1003. arc yup that looks like the end result; EXI strings can be either all UTF-32, or you can specify an optimized character set of up to 254 glyphs formed out of unicode glyphs from the BMP plane (0x0000 to 0x9999). implementation-wise, its a simple ushort[n] table to map because theres a 1-to-1 value for mapping the stream value to a unicode character. any character not in that mapping can be expressed by giving the highest value +1, followed by a UTF32 character.
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  1007. arc the XML Schema containing XML Regex can and should still be supplied for typed values like Base64, SVG paths, etc. and the character set will be derived from all the characters possible. provided all the characters in that regex are in the BMP plane, and there's fewer than 255 of them, it'll use one byte per value for most values
  1008. arc for 126 or fewer, less than 8 bits per character will be used for bitpacked streams
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  1013. arc but it doesn't validate, and it doesn't constrain what the stream can contain - the encoder will just plop down a max+1 value followed by UTF-32 for any character not in the mapping.
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