XSF Discussion - 2017-03-08

  1. fippo

    https://bloggeek.me/webrtc-cpaas-report-update/ -- "Vidyo.io makes use of XMPP for its signaling". I knew jonathan lennox is smart (-:

  2. Flow

    fippo: I can't find the quote in that site

  3. Tobias

    it's all fake news

  4. Flow

    ahh, it's in https://bloggeek.me/download/11252/

  5. Flow

    any urn:http:upload:0 implementations out there? The prosody module seems to be stuck at the non :0 version

  6. daniel

    Flow: unfortunately no

  7. Flow

    hmm, guess i've to introduce a compat layer in smack then

  8. daniel

    Or patch a several

  9. daniel


  10. nyco

    hey, look! https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meetups ;-)

  11. Zash

    There's an upload:0 now?

  12. Ge0rG

    nyco: the SCAM has started?

  13. SamWhited

    ralphm: Ping; can you make an editors board in the XSF team trello and possibly add me to the XSF team so the boards stop showing up in my personal boards?

  14. Ge0rG

    is it board meeting time once again? :D

  15. Zash

    -certinfo conference.prosody.im

  16. Bunneh

    Zash: conference.prosody.im has a valid certificate with a 4096-bit RSA key and a RSA-SHA256 signature that expired 6 hours and 57 minutes ago issued by Let's Encrypt Authority X3

  17. Ge0rG


  18. jonasw


  19. Zash


  20. jonasw


  21. jonasw

    I should probably explain that’s a quote and deliberately used as exaggeration, because it came from a student who came into a room we were learning in, glanced at us, and basically shouted that and left.

  22. jonasw

    no idea what was going on there

  23. jonasw

    (and probably inappropriate in contexts where that story isn’t known)

  24. arc

    Ge0rG: i think you enjoy the board meetings too much

  25. Ge0rG

    arc: sorry, I'll try to be more negative next time :D

  26. ralphm

    I may not make the meeting today.

  27. Ge0rG

    aww... :((

  28. arc

    im happy to chair if you need, assuming we can get quorum

  29. ralphm


  30. arc

    hey Alex

  31. arc

    Martin: MattJ: nyco: you here?

  32. MattJ


  33. nyco

    sir, yes sir

  34. nyco


  35. arc bangs the gavel

  36. Martin


  37. arc

    ralphm: are you here and able to chair?

  38. arc

    Ok roll call, we're all here but ralph.

  39. arc

    dwd are you able to take notes today?

  40. arc

    he's not present. can anyone else take notes today? we'll try to keep this brief in ralph's absence

  41. arc

    ok throwing the notepad at random people, jonasw can you take notes today?

  42. jonasw

    can do

  43. arc


  44. jonasw

    give me a sec

  45. jonasw

    anything special I should know?

  46. jonasw

    otherwise I’m ready

  47. arc

    nope, just minutes. there's plenty of examples on the mailing list

  48. nyco

    minutes, or hours, or seconds...

  49. arc

    Topics for Decisions - is there anything to be done fro Google Summer of Code today?

  50. nyco

    /ms stops here

  51. jonasw

    first, please, who’s present?

  52. nyco

    all except Ralph

  53. jonasw

    cause I still don’t have a reliable mapping nick -> realname yet

  54. arc

    jonasw: myself, martin, mattj, nyco

  55. jonasw


  56. arc

    Martin Hewitt, Matthew Wild, Nicolas Verité, Arc Riley

  57. jonasw

    done, thanks

  58. arc

    ok, Kev: is there anything of note with GSoC? are the students discussing things with projects? Mentors signing up?

  59. SamWhited

    I looked into making editor tasks as Dave or somebody suggested last week

  60. SamWhited

    I couldn't come up with any that I actually thought would fit GSoC or keep a student busy for the summer

  61. Kev

    arc: I've not asked mentors to sign up yet, I need to clarify with the Google folks if that's really necessary. I typically ask them to sign up only once there are suitable project ideas coming in.

  62. Kev

    (e.g. I wouldn't bother making Swift devs sign up if there are no Swift projects).

  63. Kev

    We've had a couple of students start approaching us, yeah. Although if Board can think of ways of widening the net here, that'd be grand.

  64. arc

    there's no harm tho either. if they volunteer, eg they're talking to students who are interested, they'll still get a tshirt etc

  65. Kev


  66. SamWhited

    yah, I got a code-in tshirt from arc for showing up and saying hi in the room a handful of times :)

  67. arc

    in the past if I wanted to widen the net I'd toss some cash at google advertising or put up a youtube video

  68. arc

    but it sounds like the program is on-track for this stage

  69. arc

    is that all for gsoc this week? no decisions necessary?

  70. nyco

    well, make some noise?

  71. Kev

    As long as Board are still happy to delegate to me, I'm still happy to do stuff.

  72. nyco

    on our blogs, social network accounts, etc.

  73. nyco

    I am happy

  74. arc

    nyco: would you like to take that on?

  75. arc

    there's certainly some college students out there who'd love the cash to work on xmpp related work.

  76. nyco

    I am only the master of the places I control, but still I can ask people to do, even provide some content as example/templates

  77. nyco

    my "audience" is not students though

  78. arc

    fantastic. remember any non-mentor can participate in GSoC, so long as they're enrolled for at least one college credit for the current or next season, undergrad or grad. we can also reach out to our own community

  79. arc

    ok, that seems wrapped. moving on

  80. arc


  81. arc

    I met with William for about 5 hours last week. He's an XMPP evangelist who's been working to get XMPP standardized for IoT for awhile now, but only orbiting the XSF

  82. nyco


  83. arc

    Eg he's met PSA, Peter Waher, etc

  84. arc

    Alex has him setup with a wiki account and he's applying for membership, and said he's going to pull some of the 100+ members of his IEEE IoT WG into the XSF as well, but it raised an issue that we may need a greater presence within the IEEE

  85. arc

    SamWhited: you commented on the card, share to speak to this as part of the meeting?

  86. SamWhited

    I don't really have anything other than what's on the card; Dave suggested we appoint a council liaison, but there weren't many people at the council meeting today so I'm going to send out an email to council@ and see if we get any volunteers.

  87. jonasw

    for context, what card?

  88. arc

    on Trello, https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

  89. SamWhited

    Presumably we'd work with the IoT SIG to come up with a strategy for improving the current XEPs, or creating new ones.

  90. SamWhited

    I will advise the board when/if this happens, but I'm not confident that anyone will volunteer (they didn't last time this was mentioned when the IoT SIG was forming)

  91. arc

    its possible that some of the new members we can draw from the IEEE side will volunteer

  92. arc

    I deferred a lot of his queries about the XEPs to the IoT WG during our meeting, but one thing he reiterated was there's an existing IEEE IoT XML format, which is why XMPP is getting so much traction.

  93. arc

    ok it feels that we're dying off, AOB for today?

  94. nyco


  95. nyco

    meetups sync

  96. nyco


  97. nyco


  98. nyco

    * Starting point? https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meetups * Collect slides and content * Share and cross-reference

  99. nyco

    agree? disagree? comments? suggestions?

  100. jonasw

    what is "AOB" for a control code?

  101. nyco

    Any Other Business

  102. jonasw


  103. arc

    I'm fine with it. I'll note tho that at least one of those listed is a dead meetup

  104. nyco

    yeah, lots of jargon, sorry

  105. nyco


  106. nyco

    which one?

  107. arc

    the SF meetup

  108. nyco


  109. jonasw

    what is meetup sync about?

  110. arc

    nothing wrong with listing it.

  111. nyco

    I talked to Justin, he liked that here

  112. nyco

    maybe we can resurrect it?

  113. MattJ

    Leave it, or leave it with a note on the page

  114. nyco

    yep, good idea

  115. MattJ

    Better to have it linked to than not visible

  116. nyco


  117. arc

    well there's a bay area realtime meetup that was intended to have some xmpp content

  118. arc


  119. arc

    it more or less took the place the xmpp meetup used to have, but with wider scope

  120. nyco

    so, call to all: the slides or any other content, let's share that! increase our visibility, let people talk about it

  121. MattJ

    That should include any videos/slides from FOSDEM

  122. arc

    i think its a great idea, have a centralized place for people to drop links to their slides and to the ever-shifting local meetings

  123. nyco

    ah good point... we generalise it to ALL events?

  124. arc

    yea why not. does meetup still have their API?

  125. arc

    or are you editing by hand

  126. nyco


  127. arc

    a calendar of XMPP events worldwide could have some limited utility

  128. nyco


  129. nyco

    still a reference, a list, generate SEO

  130. arc

    or by having a list of slides, it would double as a list of xmpp _speakers_ which could serve conference organizers trying to reach out

  131. nyco


  132. arc

    are you volunteering nyco?

  133. nyco

    why not?

  134. nyco

    jonasw, I count on your notes! ;-)

  135. arc

    alright, AOB?

  136. jonasw

    nyco: you live dangerous :-)

  137. arc

    we're at time. +1W?

  138. nyco


  139. MattJ


  140. Martin

    Works for me

  141. arc

    alright, thanks everyone. Next week, same place, same time.

  142. arc bangs gavel

  143. nyco

    thx all!

  144. jonasw

    nyco: quick question: regarding the GSoC-social-media-visibility point, am I correct to say: "Nicolas is happy to make some posts and spread the word, providing examples and templates."

  145. jonasw


  146. nyco

    oh... huh... yeah... :'(

  147. jonasw

    just making sure for the minutes

  148. arc

    i can also help, im just not volunteering for much given that we're in the middle of a 5000km+ move across the US

  149. arc

    and I'm going to be doing a lot to organize PyCon activities once there

  150. arc

    ralph and dave suggested we get US-side beanbags/etc for US conferences, and step up our game on this side of the pond

  151. MattJ


  152. SamWhited

    I absolutely volunteer to "store" one of the beanbags and ship them wherever they need to go…

  153. SamWhited

    I am central, which means that makes sense somehow, I'm sure.

  154. jonasw

    minutes are sent

  155. arc

    we'll have to work out those details soonish. I'll be in Portland so i can gather materials before and after PyCon

  156. nyco

    jonasw, thx !

  157. arc

    our booth last year was pathetic

  158. nyco

    need to ru, bye all!

  159. jonasw

    pycon is on the wrong side of the ocean for me, sorry

  160. arc

    SamWhited: are you coming to pycon this year?

  161. SamWhited

    arc: No, probably not

  162. arc

    good notes jonasw

  163. arc

    SamWhited: just to note, we have one free pass still available

  164. arc

    the booth comes with 2, im using one.

  165. jonasw

    thanks arc

  166. arc

    wow, ok so there's some incompatabilities between exi implementations. which isnt suprising

  167. arc

    it looks like most of these are simply incomplete

  168. arc

    which isn't necessarily bad, so long as they're not used for server implementations.

  169. arc

    wow, ok.

  170. Link Mauve

    “14:54:34 daniel> the reason i'm asking is because ejabberd now supports merging and parting multi sessions nicks. and Conversations behaves pretty badly when you actually try it”, IIRC when I tried with poezio and Gajim with Prosody’s trunk code months ago, these two clients were behaving correctly.

  171. Link Mauve

    It’s also the way biboumi does IRC-side nick changes.

  172. Link Mauve

    I’d guess this is an Ejabberd issue more than a client issue, like it wouldn’t put the correct status code or something.

  173. arc

    I was referring to PSA's resignation

  174. daniel

    Link Mauve: yeah maybe

  175. daniel

    I didn't actually boil down the exact problem

  176. Link Mauve

    Have you tested Prosody trunk yet?

  177. Link Mauve

    Or biboumi?

  178. Ge0rG

    From what I've seen discussed, it looked like an ejabberd issue to me as well. Not creating a join presence for the other client when splitting, or some such

  179. arc

    """Otherwise, determine the set of characters for each immediate pattern facet of the target datatype definition according to section E Deriving Set of Characters from XML Schema Regular Expressions. Then, compute the restricted set of characters for the string value as the union of all the sets of characters computed in the previous step. If the resulting set of characters contains less than 256 characters and contains only BMP characters, the string value has a restricted character set and each character is represented using an n-bit Unsigned Integer (see 7.1.9 n-bit Unsigned Integer), where n is ⌈ log2(N + 1) ⌉ and N is the number of characters in the restricted character set."""

  180. arc

    """The characters in the restricted character set are sorted by Unicode [UNICODE] code point and represented by integer values in the range (0 ... N−1) according to their ordinal position in the set. Characters that are not in this set are represented by the n-bit Unsigned Integer N followed by the Unicode code point of the character represented as an Unsigned Integer."""

  181. arc

    ok so it appears to operate as follows: you can construct an optimized character set of 1-254 characters. no more than 8 bits per character, which simplifies implementation considerably since you need a simple uint[256] for a map.

  182. arc

    there is a reserved top value, if that value is passed, then the full unsigned int of the unicode codepoint follows.

  183. arc

    """as the union of all the sets of characters computed in the previous step"""

  184. arc

    so while the XML regex format allows for multi-character sequences, this does not. all the valid characters from the regex are combined into a set, then sorted by unicode codepoint.

  185. arc

    if fewer than 8 bits is needed, then that many will be used. but without multi-character sequences theres no "compression" available at this step beyond the obvious one of using a charmap

  186. arc

    but it does allow some cool effects; Base64 might be encoded using 63 (not 64) values, accepting that "/" and the terminating "=" will use 5 bytes, so while more complicated than it really should need to be it would only add 6.4% to the size vs 20% as is used with utf-8 representations of Base64..

  187. arc

    or if 3.6% difference doesnt matter, 7 bits could be used, still reducing the 20% overhead in half.

  188. daniel

    nyco: someone in the gsoc channel is interested in mix for mongoose xmpp:gsoc@muc.xmpp.org?join

  189. nyco


  190. arc

    yup that looks like the end result; EXI strings can be either all UTF-32, or you can specify an optimized character set of up to 254 glyphs formed out of unicode glyphs from the BMP plane (0x0000 to 0x9999). implementation-wise, its a simple ushort[n] table to map because theres a 1-to-1 value for mapping the stream value to a unicode character. any character not in that mapping can be expressed by giving the highest value +1, followed by a UTF32 character.

  191. arc

    the XML Schema containing XML Regex can and should still be supplied for typed values like Base64, SVG paths, etc. and the character set will be derived from all the characters possible. provided all the characters in that regex are in the BMP plane, and there's fewer than 255 of them, it'll use one byte per value for most values

  192. arc

    for 126 or fewer, less than 8 bits per character will be used for bitpacked streams

  193. arc

    but it doesn't validate, and it doesn't constrain what the stream can contain - the encoder will just plop down a max+1 value followed by UTF-32 for any character not in the mapping.